# Committee on Environmental Protection and Energy meeting, April 3, 2024

- When: Wed, Apr 3, 2024, 10:30 AM (Chicago time)
- Where: City Council Chamber, 2nd Floor, City Hall, 121 North LaSalle Street - Chicago, IL 60602
- Status: Scheduled & Published
- Committee: [Committee on Environmental Protection and Energy](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/committee/environmental-protection-and-energy)
- Video: https://vimeo.com/929596329?share=copy
- Transcript: [full text](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/files/transcripts/929596329.txt) (101,260 words, official captions)

## Meeting notes

> AI-written from the transcript. Speakers are inferred from cues in the recording, so treat names as estimates and check the video at the linked time.

The Committee on Environmental Protection and Energy held a day-long subject matter hearing on the proposed Clean and Affordable Buildings Ordinance (CABO), which would set an indoor emissions standard for new construction and major additions; no vote was taken on the ordinance. After public comment from 15 in-person speakers and approval of a Rule 45 report, the committee heard five panels: city departments, ComEd, Peoples Gas, environmental and consumer proponents, and labor unions. City officials said the ordinance would affect roughly 600 to 900 buildings a year and would not require existing buildings to give up gas, and ComEd said its grid has capacity for the added winter load. Peoples Gas and four union locals opposed the ordinance, citing customer choice, costs shifting to remaining gas customers, reliability and job losses. Members raised questions about costs, labor participation, development timelines, and the Peoples Gas pipe replacement program, and the chair said further stakeholder conversations would follow.

Topics: Clean and Affordable Buildings Ordinance, building decarbonization, natural gas, electric grid reliability, utility costs, labor and jobs, indoor air quality, Peoples Gas pipe replacement, Inflation Reduction Act, public comment

### Agenda items discussed

- [32:27](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/A89F7627-A1E7-EE11-904C-001DD809BE52?t=1947) Motion to allow remote participation of members under Rule 59: passed
- [54:18](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/A89F7627-A1E7-EE11-904C-001DD809BE52?t=3258) Approval of the Rule 45 report from November 6, 2023: passed
- [54:36](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/A89F7627-A1E7-EE11-904C-001DD809BE52?t=3276) Subject matter hearing on the Clean and Affordable Buildings Ordinance: discussed

### Alderpersons who spoke

- [Maria E. Hadden](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/ward/49) (chair): Said CABO would apply only to new construction and additions over 10,000 square feet, would not require existing buildings or stoves to change, and would affect about 0.5% of the building stock. ([56:03](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/A89F7627-A1E7-EE11-904C-001DD809BE52?t=3363)); Said the ordinance is written to be energy neutral by limiting emissions rather than choosing a fuel, leaving room for future technologies. ([56:51](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/A89F7627-A1E7-EE11-904C-001DD809BE52?t=3411)); Said Peoples Gas and labor will be needed for decades and should be at the planning table for any conversion of existing buildings. ([58:48](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/A89F7627-A1E7-EE11-904C-001DD809BE52?t=3528))
- [Silvana Tabares](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/ward/23) (alderperson): Asked whether labor unions are part of the city's planning meetings on decarbonization. ([1:44:47](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/A89F7627-A1E7-EE11-904C-001DD809BE52?t=6287)); Urged the commissioner to reconvene a working group that includes Local 150, pipefitters and gas workers, and asked for a commitment. ([1:47:00](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/A89F7627-A1E7-EE11-904C-001DD809BE52?t=6420)); Asked how existing gas customers who cannot go electric will bear the cost shift. ([1:49:12](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/A89F7627-A1E7-EE11-904C-001DD809BE52?t=6552))
- [Daniel La Spata](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/ward/1) (alderperson): Said he participated in the city's building decarbonization working group, which included labor organizations and a range of viewpoints. ([1:57:33](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/A89F7627-A1E7-EE11-904C-001DD809BE52?t=7053)); Described electrifying his own home and said cost claims of $60,000 to $75,000 are inflated compared with his experience. ([1:59:03](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/A89F7627-A1E7-EE11-904C-001DD809BE52?t=7143)); Cited Rocky Mountain Institute data showing all-electric new homes cost less to build and operate in nine cities and asked whether the same holds in Chicago. ([2:00:06](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/A89F7627-A1E7-EE11-904C-001DD809BE52?t=7206))
- [Gilbert Villegas](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/ward/36) (alderperson): Asked about the Berkeley natural gas ban lawsuit and the pending New York lawsuit, which he said concerns language similar to CABO's. ([2:05:36](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/A89F7627-A1E7-EE11-904C-001DD809BE52?t=7536)); Said he is not opposed to decarbonization but wants a new working group of proponents and opponents and to start over on the ordinance. ([2:08:57](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/A89F7627-A1E7-EE11-904C-001DD809BE52?t=7737)); Said jobs created in electricity could mean jobs lost in natural gas and he was unsure of the net effect. ([2:09:45](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/A89F7627-A1E7-EE11-904C-001DD809BE52?t=7785))
- [William E. Hall](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/ward/6) (alderperson): Asked the departments to explain the difference between gas cooking in restaurants and in homes. ([2:18:36](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/A89F7627-A1E7-EE11-904C-001DD809BE52?t=8316)); Asked about the implementation timeline and confirmed residents with gas stoves would not be forced to convert. ([2:20:54](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/A89F7627-A1E7-EE11-904C-001DD809BE52?t=8454)); Asked for projected job creation and the main health impacts in new homes. ([2:23:15](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/A89F7627-A1E7-EE11-904C-001DD809BE52?t=8595))
- [William Conway](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/ward/34) (alderperson): Asked whether the Inflation Reduction Act conditions funding on a specific new-construction emissions limit. ([2:31:00](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/A89F7627-A1E7-EE11-904C-001DD809BE52?t=9060)); Cited a Bloomberg article on power quality issues and recent outages and asked whether they affected the city's grid readiness analysis. ([2:35:15](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/A89F7627-A1E7-EE11-904C-001DD809BE52?t=9315)); Asked for an estimate of how much the legislation would raise power bills. ([2:40:51](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/A89F7627-A1E7-EE11-904C-001DD809BE52?t=9651))
- [Timothy R. Knudsen](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/ward/43) (alderperson): Said the ordinance is not a natural gas ban and is a soft transition, and that he expects language to eventually pass once refined. ([2:44:34](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/A89F7627-A1E7-EE11-904C-001DD809BE52?t=9874)); Asked for data on how similar ordinances in New York and Los Angeles affected development. ([2:45:30](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/A89F7627-A1E7-EE11-904C-001DD809BE52?t=9930)); Asked whether the city has reports on which existing buildings are the worst polluters. ([2:49:24](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/A89F7627-A1E7-EE11-904C-001DD809BE52?t=10164))
- [Nicole T. Lee](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/ward/11) (alderperson): Asked for historical permit trends to put the estimate of 600 to 900 affected buildings in context. ([2:58:18](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/A89F7627-A1E7-EE11-904C-001DD809BE52?t=10698)); Asked how the 12-month effective date would affect projects already in planning, such as an approved adaptive reuse. ([3:02:33](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/A89F7627-A1E7-EE11-904C-001DD809BE52?t=10953)); Asked how much of the city's retrofit program budget had been disbursed and how priority areas were chosen. ([3:06:15](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/A89F7627-A1E7-EE11-904C-001DD809BE52?t=11175))
- [Pat Dowell](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/ward/3) (alderperson): Said the ordinance would be transformational and raised concern about its impact on individual customers. ([3:15:24](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/A89F7627-A1E7-EE11-904C-001DD809BE52?t=11724)); Asked for the share of ComEd customers who cannot afford their bills compared with Peoples Gas. ([3:15:42](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/A89F7627-A1E7-EE11-904C-001DD809BE52?t=11742)); Asked whether the city is discussing expanded utility assistance programs with ComEd as its customer base grows. ([3:19:03](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/A89F7627-A1E7-EE11-904C-001DD809BE52?t=11943))
- [Raymond A. Lopez](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/ward/15) (alderperson): Asked about effective-date language in the draft ordinance referencing 2023 permits. ([3:22:18](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/A89F7627-A1E7-EE11-904C-001DD809BE52?t=12138)); Said about 190 emails on the ordinance from June to December 2023 showed meetings with nonprofits but not with Peoples Gas or labor groups. ([3:24:03](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/A89F7627-A1E7-EE11-904C-001DD809BE52?t=12243)); Said he had earlier asked the commissioner whether a decarbonization ordinance was in the works and was told no. ([3:31:42](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/A89F7627-A1E7-EE11-904C-001DD809BE52?t=12702))
- [Bennett R. Lawson](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/ward/44) (alderperson): Asked whether the Department of Buildings will need more inspectors, technology or budget to implement the ordinance. ([3:43:54](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/A89F7627-A1E7-EE11-904C-001DD809BE52?t=13434)); Raised concern about ComEd hookup wait times for new buildings and noted the ordinance has no service deadline. ([3:49:46](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/A89F7627-A1E7-EE11-904C-001DD809BE52?t=13786)); Asked whether large rehabs should be covered and said major institutions should be considered separately. ([3:51:27](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/A89F7627-A1E7-EE11-904C-001DD809BE52?t=13887))
- [David H. Moore](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/ward/17) (alderperson): Commended the chair for holding the hearing rather than pushing the ordinance through. ([3:53:51](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/A89F7627-A1E7-EE11-904C-001DD809BE52?t=14031)); Cautioned against using fear tactics on health, citing elderly constituents who cooked with gas all their lives. ([3:55:48](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/A89F7627-A1E7-EE11-904C-001DD809BE52?t=14148)); Asked whether new electric buildings would leave fixed gas system costs to remaining customers and requested projections. ([4:01:00](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/A89F7627-A1E7-EE11-904C-001DD809BE52?t=14460))
- [Leni Manaa-Hoppenworth](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/ward/48) (alderperson): Said she is a co-sponsor of CABO, agreed with colleagues that tone matters, and thanked constituents who spoke in favor. ([4:14:18](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/A89F7627-A1E7-EE11-904C-001DD809BE52?t=15258)); Asked the commissioner why she had referenced the net energy positive school development. ([4:15:33](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/A89F7627-A1E7-EE11-904C-001DD809BE52?t=15333)); Asked who will be at the table in future conversations and how the city will ensure green jobs without losing labor. ([4:19:42](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/A89F7627-A1E7-EE11-904C-001DD809BE52?t=15582))
- [Marty Quinn](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/ward/13) (alderperson): Said his ward is mostly older single-family homes and asked Peoples Gas to explain its use of the word inequitable. ([6:03:36](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/A89F7627-A1E7-EE11-904C-001DD809BE52?t=21816)); Asked how the ordinance would affect the Peoples Gas workforce. ([6:05:27](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/A89F7627-A1E7-EE11-904C-001DD809BE52?t=21927))

### Exchanges between members

- [1:47:36](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/A89F7627-A1E7-EE11-904C-001DD809BE52?t=6456) The chair asked Alderperson Silvana Tabares to clarify what commitment she was seeking from the commissioner.
- [1:53:48](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/A89F7627-A1E7-EE11-904C-001DD809BE52?t=6828) The chair told Alderperson Silvana Tabares that CABO would not change Peoples Gas's revenue base.
- [2:07:03](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/A89F7627-A1E7-EE11-904C-001DD809BE52?t=7623) The chair asked Alderperson Gilbert Villegas to clarify his lawsuit question for other committee members.
- [2:15:21](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/A89F7627-A1E7-EE11-904C-001DD809BE52?t=8121) The chair told Alderperson Gilbert Villegas she would work to provide clear information sources on competing reports.
- [2:25:12](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/A89F7627-A1E7-EE11-904C-001DD809BE52?t=8712) Alderperson William E. Hall called his colleague's concern about restaurant kitchen workers a good observation.
- [2:36:51](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/A89F7627-A1E7-EE11-904C-001DD809BE52?t=9411) Alderperson William Conway objected to the chair interrupting his question about grid reliability.
- [2:43:55](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/A89F7627-A1E7-EE11-904C-001DD809BE52?t=9835) Alderperson William Conway thanked the chair for holding hearings rather than moving the legislation directly to council.
- [2:44:09](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/A89F7627-A1E7-EE11-904C-001DD809BE52?t=9849) The chair responded to Alderperson William Conway that she has not sent legislation to council without deliberation.
- [2:44:30](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/A89F7627-A1E7-EE11-904C-001DD809BE52?t=9870) Alderperson Timothy R. Knudsen echoed Alderperson William Conway that the hearing is a good first conversation.
- [3:17:54](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/A89F7627-A1E7-EE11-904C-001DD809BE52?t=11874) The chair clarified Alderperson Pat Dowell request for operating cost comparisons.
- [3:28:57](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/A89F7627-A1E7-EE11-904C-001DD809BE52?t=12537) The chair asked to add a clarifying question during Alderperson Raymond A. Lopez questioning about labor engagement.
- [3:32:24](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/A89F7627-A1E7-EE11-904C-001DD809BE52?t=12744) The chair, as a sponsor, said the commissioner's earlier answer to Alderperson Raymond A. Lopez was accurate because the ordinance was not then the mayor's.
- [3:34:30](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/A89F7627-A1E7-EE11-904C-001DD809BE52?t=12870) The chair objected to Alderperson Raymond A. Lopez characterization of the process and said his remarks were not questions.
- [3:37:03](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/A89F7627-A1E7-EE11-904C-001DD809BE52?t=13023) Alderperson Raymond A. Lopez said the chair was interrupting only him.
- [3:42:00](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/A89F7627-A1E7-EE11-904C-001DD809BE52?t=13320) The chair said the hearing occurred because she called it, responding to Alderperson Raymond A. Lopez.
- [3:53:54](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/A89F7627-A1E7-EE11-904C-001DD809BE52?t=14034) Alderperson David H. Moore agreed with Alderperson Bennett R. Lawson point about how the ordinance is being handled.
- [3:53:56](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/A89F7627-A1E7-EE11-904C-001DD809BE52?t=14036) Alderperson David H. Moore commended the chair for holding the hearing.
- [3:55:12](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/A89F7627-A1E7-EE11-904C-001DD809BE52?t=14112) Alderperson David H. Moore agreed with Alderperson Gilbert Villegas that decarbonization is a shared goal.
- [4:00:42](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/A89F7627-A1E7-EE11-904C-001DD809BE52?t=14442) Alderperson David H. Moore followed up on Alderperson Pat Dowell cost concerns.
- [4:07:48](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/A89F7627-A1E7-EE11-904C-001DD809BE52?t=14868) The chair restated Alderperson David H. Moore question about how emissions are measured.

## Documents

- [Notice](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/files/clerk/meetingattachmentspublic/81bf16a0-8777-4903-a9e9-521e24c3f7a6.pdf)
- [Agenda](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/files/clerk/meetingattachmentspublic/b0684fc0-912f-4749-a268-ecd9f26b751f.pdf)
- [Summary](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/files/clerk/meetingattachmentspublic/fb807d84-c065-4a45-b9fd-576e0874ee14.pdf)

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Source: https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/A89F7627-A1E7-EE11-904C-001DD809BE52 · Chicago Politics, an independent, nonpartisan tracker of the Chicago City Council. Guide for agents: https://www.chicagopolitics.org/llms.txt