# Committee on Environmental Protection and Energy meeting, November 6, 2023

- When: Mon, Nov 6, 2023, 10:00 AM (Chicago time)
- Where: Room 201A, 2nd Floor, City Hall, 121 North LaSalle Street - Chicago, IL 60602
- Status: Scheduled & Published
- Committee: [Committee on Environmental Protection and Energy](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/committee/environmental-protection-and-energy)
- Video: https://vimeo.com/manage/videos/880640113
- Transcript: [full text](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/files/transcripts/880640113.txt) (31,898 words, official captions)

## Meeting notes

> AI-written from the transcript. Speakers are inferred from cues in the recording, so treat names as estimates and check the video at the linked time.

The Committee on Environmental Protection and Energy, chaired by Alderperson Maria E. Hadden, heard public comment largely concerning a proposed Peoples Gas rate increase before the Illinois Commerce Commission. The committee approved a Rule 45 report and recommended passage of an ordinance terminating the carnotite moratorium area at the former Michael Reese Hospital site and a substitute ordinance sponsored by Alderperson Daniel La Spata that extends citation powers to Streets and Sanitation staff and requires private haulers to provide GPS data on request. The committee also recommended passage of Alderperson William Conway resolution calling for a subject matter hearing on the Peoples Gas rate request, then heard testimony and questions from Peoples Gas, labor and contractor representatives, a workforce nonprofit, and consumer, environmental and faith-based advocates. Members questioned witnesses on company profits, late fees, the pipe replacement program, natural gas price volatility, health effects of gas stoves, and the costs of electrification.

Topics: Peoples Gas rate increase, Illinois Commerce Commission, pipe replacement program, utility affordability, late fees and disconnections, carnotite moratorium area, private scavenger GPS records, electrification, gas stove health effects, workforce and union jobs

### Agenda items discussed

- [30:11](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/80591DE8-4573-EE11-8DEE-001DD8051BBA?t=1811) Rule 45 report from September 6, 2023: passed
- [30:31](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/80591DE8-4573-EE11-8DEE-001DD8051BBA?t=1831) Amendment of Municipal Code chapter 11-4 regarding radiation monitoring to remove the carnotite moratorium area (O2023-0004939): passed
- [33:02](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/80591DE8-4573-EE11-8DEE-001DD8051BBA?t=1982) Substitute ordinance amending Municipal Code titles 2, 8 and 11 regarding administration of private hauling complaints and GPS records: passed
- [42:52](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/80591DE8-4573-EE11-8DEE-001DD8051BBA?t=2572) Resolution calling for a subject matter hearing on the proposed Peoples Gas rate increase before the Illinois Commerce Commission (R2023-0004577): passed

### Alderpersons who spoke

- [Maria E. Hadden](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/ward/49) (chair): Summarized the Peoples Gas request for a $402 million increase, concerns about the pipe replacement program's cost growth, and the city's position in the rate case. ([49:11](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/80591DE8-4573-EE11-8DEE-001DD8051BBA?t=2951)); Asked Peoples Gas what its plan for the future is and whether the infrastructure investment could be used for anything other than delivering gas. ([1:02:22](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/80591DE8-4573-EE11-8DEE-001DD8051BBA?t=3742)); Said Peoples Gas is a good company and community partner but asked what it is doing to prepare its workforce for clean energy jobs. ([2:13:24](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/80591DE8-4573-EE11-8DEE-001DD8051BBA?t=8004))
- [Daniel La Spata](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/ward/1) (alderperson): Explained that his ordinance targets private scavengers loading and unloading between 10 p.m. and 7 a.m. by extending citation powers to ward superintendents and Streets and Sanitation staff and requiring GPS data on request. ([34:08](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/80591DE8-4573-EE11-8DEE-001DD8051BBA?t=2048)); Asked Peoples Gas where its record profits come from if neither natural gas prices nor the rate increase drive them. ([1:10:08](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/80591DE8-4573-EE11-8DEE-001DD8051BBA?t=4208)); Asked why Peoples Gas does not use its profits to fund infrastructure instead of seeking a record rate increase. ([1:13:55](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/80591DE8-4573-EE11-8DEE-001DD8051BBA?t=4435))
- [Bennett R. Lawson](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/ward/44) (alderperson): Asked where the fine amounts for the private hauling violations are set and whether companies already have GPS technology given the short compliance timeline. ([37:26](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/80591DE8-4573-EE11-8DEE-001DD8051BBA?t=2246)); Said early-morning hauling comes up often in his neighborhood and thanked the sponsor for the answers. ([38:59](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/80591DE8-4573-EE11-8DEE-001DD8051BBA?t=2339))
- [William Conway](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/ward/34) (alderperson): Said he called the hearing because the ICC would soon decide on a rate increase affecting almost a million Chicago customers, citing Peoples Gas's record profits and the growth of its pipe replacement budget. ([44:42](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/80591DE8-4573-EE11-8DEE-001DD8051BBA?t=2682)); Cited late fee revenue as a profit driver and data showing nearly 50% of Englewood households behind on bills with average debt of $1,000. ([46:57](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/80591DE8-4573-EE11-8DEE-001DD8051BBA?t=2817)); Questioned Peoples Gas about natural gas price volatility and its reliance on lower gas prices to argue bills would not rise. ([1:05:57](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/80591DE8-4573-EE11-8DEE-001DD8051BBA?t=3957))
- [Raymond A. Lopez](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/ward/15) (alderperson): Questioned Peoples Gas on its status as a for-profit private business with obligations to shareholders and the jobs that depend on it. ([1:16:49](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/80591DE8-4573-EE11-8DEE-001DD8051BBA?t=4609)); Contrasted Peoples Gas's finances with the city's structural deficits and debt. ([1:19:57](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/80591DE8-4573-EE11-8DEE-001DD8051BBA?t=4797)); Drew on airline experience to describe fuel price volatility and hedging and its effect on customers. ([1:21:00](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/80591DE8-4573-EE11-8DEE-001DD8051BBA?t=4860))
- [Byron Sigcho-López](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/ward/25) (alderperson): Asked Peoples Gas to verify that its parent company earned $1.4 billion in profits last year. ([1:24:11](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/80591DE8-4573-EE11-8DEE-001DD8051BBA?t=5051)); Asked why the QIP surcharge, described as capped near $1.15 a month, has reached about $17 a month. ([1:26:41](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/80591DE8-4573-EE11-8DEE-001DD8051BBA?t=5201)); Asked how Peoples Gas justifies the increase when one in five customers is already behind on payments. ([1:28:58](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/80591DE8-4573-EE11-8DEE-001DD8051BBA?t=5338))
- [Matthew J. Martin](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/ward/47) (alderperson): Cited published studies associating gas stove use with respiratory illness and childhood asthma. ([1:32:57](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/80591DE8-4573-EE11-8DEE-001DD8051BBA?t=5577)); Asked what Peoples Gas is doing to ensure low-income communities are not left paying more if there is a transition away from gas appliances. ([1:34:49](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/80591DE8-4573-EE11-8DEE-001DD8051BBA?t=5689)); Said the company's answer was not responsive and repeated his question about a contingency plan for the lowest-income customers. ([1:39:09](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/80591DE8-4573-EE11-8DEE-001DD8051BBA?t=5949))
- [Monique L. Scott](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/ward/24) (alderperson): Asked how much Peoples Gas earns from late fees and requested that the information be provided to the chair. ([1:40:52](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/80591DE8-4573-EE11-8DEE-001DD8051BBA?t=6052)); Asked whether an infrastructure-related rate increase grows over time with construction costs. ([1:42:50](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/80591DE8-4573-EE11-8DEE-001DD8051BBA?t=6170))
- [Ruth Cruz](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/ward/30) (alderperson): Said alderpersons must address constituents who cannot pay bills and asked whether Peoples Gas has a specific plan and dollar commitment to help low-income families with the increase. ([2:06:08](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/80591DE8-4573-EE11-8DEE-001DD8051BBA?t=7568)); Pressed for a proactive commitment of a dollar amount for low-income assistance alongside the proposed increase. ([2:09:35](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/80591DE8-4573-EE11-8DEE-001DD8051BBA?t=7775))
- [Gilbert Villegas](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/ward/36) (alderperson): Asked how far over budget and behind schedule the Peoples Gas pipe program is compared with initial estimates. ([3:05:17](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/80591DE8-4573-EE11-8DEE-001DD8051BBA?t=11117)); Asked whether electricity is cheaper than natural gas and whether conversion costs are accounted for in savings estimates. ([3:07:04](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/80591DE8-4573-EE11-8DEE-001DD8051BBA?t=11224)); Asked where resources for household conversions would come from. ([3:10:43](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/80591DE8-4573-EE11-8DEE-001DD8051BBA?t=11443))
- [Silvana Tabares](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/ward/23) (alderperson): Asked what studies estimate the cost for Chicago homes and businesses to convert to all-electric. ([3:28:32](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/80591DE8-4573-EE11-8DEE-001DD8051BBA?t=12512)); Cited a reported $50,000 to $60,000 per-home conversion cost and the city's RFP to estimate roughly $40 billion to convert 800,000 homes, saying she was concerned about affordability for her ward. ([3:30:30](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/80591DE8-4573-EE11-8DEE-001DD8051BBA?t=12630)); Said it was appropriate to ask about all-electric because a colleague raised it and she wants to understand the direction. ([3:33:24](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/80591DE8-4573-EE11-8DEE-001DD8051BBA?t=12804))

### Exchanges between members

- [37:26](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/80591DE8-4573-EE11-8DEE-001DD8051BBA?t=2246) Alderperson Bennett R. Lawson asked the sponsor, Alderperson Daniel La Spata, about fine amounts and compliance timing in the hauling ordinance.
- [42:17](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/80591DE8-4573-EE11-8DEE-001DD8051BBA?t=2537) The chair thanked Alderperson Daniel La Spata for introducing and working on the hauling ordinance.
- [49:03](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/80591DE8-4573-EE11-8DEE-001DD8051BBA?t=2943) The chair thanked Alderperson William Conway for bringing the resolution forward.
- [1:24:59](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/80591DE8-4573-EE11-8DEE-001DD8051BBA?t=5099) Alderperson Raymond A. Lopez, referring to his colleague's question, asked that questions be limited to testimony already given.
- [1:25:19](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/80591DE8-4573-EE11-8DEE-001DD8051BBA?t=5119) The chair responded to Alderperson Raymond A. Lopez that members may ask the questions they want, though witnesses may not have answers yet.
- [1:40:52](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/80591DE8-4573-EE11-8DEE-001DD8051BBA?t=6052) Alderperson Monique L. Scott said she wanted to build on what Alderperson Byron Sigcho-López had stated about late fees.
- [2:14:05](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/80591DE8-4573-EE11-8DEE-001DD8051BBA?t=8045) The chair referred to Alderperson William Conway point about balancing shareholders and customers.
- [2:26:16](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/80591DE8-4573-EE11-8DEE-001DD8051BBA?t=8776) Alderperson Daniel La Spata said Alderperson Matthew J. Martin had asked the question of who is left paying for the system eloquently.
- [3:11:31](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/80591DE8-4573-EE11-8DEE-001DD8051BBA?t=11491) Alderperson Matthew J. Martin said he appreciated Alderperson Gilbert Villegas line of questioning.
- [3:28:32](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/80591DE8-4573-EE11-8DEE-001DD8051BBA?t=12512) Alderperson Silvana Tabares followed up on the all-electric topic raised by her colleague from the 36th Ward.
- [3:32:06](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/80591DE8-4573-EE11-8DEE-001DD8051BBA?t=12726) The chair told Alderperson Silvana Tabares that converting Chicago to all-electric was not the subject of the hearing.
- [3:35:59](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/80591DE8-4573-EE11-8DEE-001DD8051BBA?t=12959) The chair asked Alderperson Silvana Tabares to keep questions to the rate increase for the sake of time.
- [3:37:49](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/80591DE8-4573-EE11-8DEE-001DD8051BBA?t=13069) Alderperson William Conway thanked the chair for holding the hearing.
- [3:38:47](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/80591DE8-4573-EE11-8DEE-001DD8051BBA?t=13127) The chair thanked Alderperson William Conway for bringing the resolution.

## Documents

- [Agenda](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/files/clerk/meetingattachmentspublic/a97cb141-af27-4486-b7c8-54646f2dc473.pdf)
- [Notice](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/files/clerk/meetingattachmentspublic/00f5f0ad-f37e-4045-a011-bc2bacb6ca3c.pdf)
- [Summary](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/files/clerk/meetingattachmentspublic/06aaa544-6213-4727-93b0-45e71cd15317.pdf)

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Source: https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/80591DE8-4573-EE11-8DEE-001DD8051BBA · Chicago Politics, an independent, nonpartisan tracker of the Chicago City Council. Guide for agents: https://www.chicagopolitics.org/llms.txt