# Committee on Police and Fire meeting, July 15, 2024

- When: Mon, Jul 15, 2024, 1:00 PM (Chicago time)
- Where: Room 201A, 2nd Floor, City Hall, 121 North LaSalle Street - Chicago, IL 60602
- Status: Scheduled & Published
- Committee: [Committee on Police and Fire](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/committee/police-and-fire)
- Video: https://vimeo.com/manage/videos/984411236
- Transcript: [full text](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/files/transcripts/984411236.txt) (15,702 words, official captions)

## Meeting notes

> AI-written from the transcript. Speakers are inferred from cues in the recording, so treat names as estimates and check the video at the linked time.

The Committee on Police and Fire heard nine public commenters on topics including weekend gun violence, traffic stops, hiring, alleged corruption, and a request for a police drone pilot program. The committee approved the Rule 45 report for its June 11, 2024 meeting. Most of the meeting focused on the appointment of a 48th Ward staff member to the Community Commission for Public Safety and Accountability (CCPSA), with members questioning the Law Department and the nominee about conflicts of interest, secondary employment, and the commissioner stipend; the Law Department said it found no legal prohibition and the chair said the Board of Ethics found no ethics violation. Some members supported the appointment, while others raised concerns about the appearance of a conflict and possible future amendments to the CCPSA ordinance. On a roll call that the chair announced as 9 to 6, the committee voted on Alderperson Nicole T. Lee motion to hold the appointment, so it remains in committee.

Topics: public comment, gun violence, police drones, Rule 45 report, CCPSA appointment, conflict of interest, secondary employment, CCPSA ordinance amendments

### Agenda items discussed

- [12:35](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/694B7818-503D-EF11-8409-001DD80545D4?t=755) Public comment
- [42:44](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/694B7818-503D-EF11-8409-001DD80545D4?t=2564) Rule 45 report for the June 11, 2024 meeting: passed
- [43:56](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/694B7818-503D-EF11-8409-001DD80545D4?t=2636) Appointment of a nominee to the Community Commission for Public Safety and Accountability: held

### Alderpersons who spoke

- [Chris Taliaferro](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/ward/29) (chair): Said he had raised concerns in May about the nominee's conflict of interest and receiving a commission stipend while employed in an aldermanic office, and asked the Law Department to explain why this is not double dipping. ([47:57](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/694B7818-503D-EF11-8409-001DD80545D4?t=2877)); Asked whether approving the appointment would set a precedent obligating department heads or alderpersons to allow employees to take secondary work during work hours. ([54:49](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/694B7818-503D-EF11-8409-001DD80545D4?t=3289)); Said Corporation Counsel plans to amend the CCPSA ordinance so future candidates would have to waive the stipend or leave city employment, and asked whether approving now would be complicit in what he sees as a problem. ([1:06:22](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/694B7818-503D-EF11-8409-001DD80545D4?t=3982))
- [Nicole T. Lee](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/ward/11) (alderperson): Said she did not question the nominee's commitment but still had concerns about secondary employment and potential conflicts of interest. ([58:34](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/694B7818-503D-EF11-8409-001DD80545D4?t=3514)); Asked the nominee to describe his current public safety duties as a ward staffer, when he would recuse himself, and how he would keep recusals recorded and information confidential. ([59:17](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/694B7818-503D-EF11-8409-001DD80545D4?t=3557)); Asked the Law Department whether the appointment could open the city to litigation over other employees taking paid stipend roles. ([1:04:06](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/694B7818-503D-EF11-8409-001DD80545D4?t=3846))
- [Derrick G. Curtis](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/ward/18) (alderperson): Asked whether the ordinance would have to be changed if the nominee takes the role. ([1:09:58](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/694B7818-503D-EF11-8409-001DD80545D4?t=4198))
- [Anthony V. Napolitano](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/ward/41) (alderperson): Asked what the work agreement means for answering public safety questions from residents. ([1:13:09](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/694B7818-503D-EF11-8409-001DD80545D4?t=4389)); Asked whether there could be consequences or lawsuits and said the rules should be clarified before placing the nominee in the role. ([1:16:00](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/694B7818-503D-EF11-8409-001DD80545D4?t=4560)); Said he is not against the nominee but would vote no because a mistake could lead to his removal, and would support him once the rules are clarified. ([1:19:29](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/694B7818-503D-EF11-8409-001DD80545D4?t=4769))
- [Jason C. Ervin](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/ward/28) (alderperson): Asked the nominee how he would balance service to the commission and the city with his work for the ward, and what would take precedence in a conflict. ([1:20:41](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/694B7818-503D-EF11-8409-001DD80545D4?t=4841)); Asked the CCPSA executive director about the expected time commitment for commissioners. ([1:23:58](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/694B7818-503D-EF11-8409-001DD80545D4?t=5038)); Said clear rules are needed so applicants do not face this level of scrutiny, and that he would support the appointment because there is no prohibition. ([1:24:52](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/694B7818-503D-EF11-8409-001DD80545D4?t=5092))
- [Nicholas Sposato](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/ward/38) (alderperson): Said he supports the nominee but worried about putting him in a difficult position, and said he did not feel the committee received clear answers. ([1:26:39](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/694B7818-503D-EF11-8409-001DD80545D4?t=5199)); Noted the nominee's title is director of neighborhood services and public safety, which he said makes the situation different from a general constituent services role. ([1:27:31](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/694B7818-503D-EF11-8409-001DD80545D4?t=5251))
- [Andre Vasquez Jr.](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/ward/40) (alderperson): Said that when the CCPSA ordinance was drafted, members discussed city employees serving as a benefit and full-time pay, and that aldermanic staff are at-will employees who can be dismissed if a conflict arises. ([1:30:40](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/694B7818-503D-EF11-8409-001DD80545D4?t=5440)); Said the Board of Ethics and Law Department found no conflict, distinguished an appearance of conflict from an actual one, and noted members who hold second jobs. ([1:42:45](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/694B7818-503D-EF11-8409-001DD80545D4?t=6165)); Said any amendment to the CCPSA ordinance should include all stakeholders and not move quickly, and urged colleagues to consider the appointment separately. ([1:45:36](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/694B7818-503D-EF11-8409-001DD80545D4?t=6336))
- [Felix Cardona Jr.](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/ward/31) (alderperson): Said the nominee should avoid conflicts by choosing one position, said he supports the appointment in principle, and backed holding it until the ordinance is amended. ([1:32:39](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/694B7818-503D-EF11-8409-001DD80545D4?t=5559))
- [Michael D. Rodriguez](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/ward/22) (alderperson): Asked the CCPSA executive director about the Board of Ethics conclusion and said he considered the matter settled. ([1:36:15](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/694B7818-503D-EF11-8409-001DD80545D4?t=5775)); Asked how the nomination was vetted and said, as a non-committee member, he hoped the committee would approve it. ([1:37:04](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/694B7818-503D-EF11-8409-001DD80545D4?t=5824))
- [Samantha Nugent](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/ward/39) (alderperson): Asked what the nominee would do if the alderperson he works for promoted a public safety policy he opposed as a commissioner. ([1:38:49](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/694B7818-503D-EF11-8409-001DD80545D4?t=5929)); Said there is an appearance of conflict and she could not support the appointment, and proposed amending the ordinance to bar aldermanic and mayoral staff from the commission. ([1:40:23](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/694B7818-503D-EF11-8409-001DD80545D4?t=6023))

### Exchanges between members

- [58:34](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/694B7818-503D-EF11-8409-001DD80545D4?t=3514) Alderperson Nicole T. Lee thanked the chair before questioning the nominee.
- [1:09:58](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/694B7818-503D-EF11-8409-001DD80545D4?t=4198) Alderperson Derrick G. Curtis asked the chair whether the ordinance would need to change if the nominee took the role.
- [1:10:13](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/694B7818-503D-EF11-8409-001DD80545D4?t=4213) The chair answered Alderperson Derrick G. Curtis, explaining the planned amendment and its effect on future appointees.
- [1:26:25](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/694B7818-503D-EF11-8409-001DD80545D4?t=5185) The chair thanked Alderperson Jason C. Ervin after his remarks.
- [1:26:44](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/694B7818-503D-EF11-8409-001DD80545D4?t=5204) Alderperson Nicholas Sposato referenced Alderperson Anthony V. Napolitano in sharing concern about putting the nominee in a difficult position.
- [1:30:19](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/694B7818-503D-EF11-8409-001DD80545D4?t=5419) The chair asked Alderperson Nicole T. Lee whether she was making a motion to hold, and she confirmed.
- [1:31:03](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/694B7818-503D-EF11-8409-001DD80545D4?t=5463) The chair thanked Alderperson Andre Vasquez Jr. for his point of information.
- [1:32:39](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/694B7818-503D-EF11-8409-001DD80545D4?t=5559) Alderperson Felix Cardona Jr. said he agreed with Alderperson Andre Vasquez Jr. about the history of the CCPSA ordinance.
- [1:35:00](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/694B7818-503D-EF11-8409-001DD80545D4?t=5700) Alderperson Anthony V. Napolitano credited Alderperson Andre Vasquez Jr. work on the ordinance while explaining his concern about at-will dismissal.
- [1:36:01](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/694B7818-503D-EF11-8409-001DD80545D4?t=5761) Alderperson Michael D. Rodriguez thanked the chair for the debate and for letting him speak as a non-member.
- [1:41:31](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/694B7818-503D-EF11-8409-001DD80545D4?t=6091) Alderperson Samantha Nugent acknowledged Alderperson Andre Vasquez Jr. work on the original legislation while saying it may need amending.
- [1:42:45](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/694B7818-503D-EF11-8409-001DD80545D4?t=6165) Alderperson Andre Vasquez Jr. responded to his colleague's point on employee independence, arguing there is a difference between an appearance of conflict and an actual conflict.

## Documents

- [Summary](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/files/clerk/meetingattachmentspublic/8e5727b6-e90a-4d3f-9bda-cfb2a5f43126.pdf)
- [Agenda](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/files/clerk/meetingattachmentspublic/18bdbf53-0d82-4ba3-9fb1-36505f5b3730.pdf)
- [Other](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/files/clerk/meetingattachmentspublic/99336cf5-ec41-42fe-9223-25ed88ffacef.pdf)
- [Notice](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/files/clerk/meetingattachmentspublic/c14b3f96-29f3-4763-9c5d-97bbc6d36a30.pdf)
- [Agenda](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/files/clerk/meetingattachmentspublic/c27c1a7a-a44f-4790-8c03-7ade1e41c281.pdf)

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Source: https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/694B7818-503D-EF11-8409-001DD80545D4 · Chicago Politics, an independent, nonpartisan tracker of the Chicago City Council. Guide for agents: https://www.chicagopolitics.org/llms.txt