# Committee on Ethics and Government Oversight meeting, January 18, 2024

- When: Thu, Jan 18, 2024, 1:00 PM (Chicago time)
- Where: City Council Chamber, 2nd Floor, City Hall, 121 North LaSalle Street - Chicago, IL 60602
- Status: Scheduled & Published
- Committee: [Committee on Ethics and Government Oversight](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/committee/ethics-and-government-oversight)
- Video: https://vimeo.com/showcase/8928512/video/901584844
- Transcript: [full text](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/files/transcripts/901584844.txt) (21,175 words, official captions)

## Meeting notes

> AI-written from the transcript. Speakers are inferred from cues in the recording, so treat names as estimates and check the video at the linked time.

The Committee on Ethics and Government Oversight held two subject matter hearings and took no votes on legislation. Board of Ethics Executive Director Steve Berlin and Reform for Illinois Executive Director Alisa Kaplan testified on possible limits or bans on outside employment and income for alderpersons, and members asked about legality, enforcement, disclosure timing, landlords, coaching stipends and the 'part-time' designation in the municipal code. Inspector General Deborah Witzburg then summarized an OIG audit finding that DFSS followed the city's encampment cleaning policy and that most participants in accelerated moving events were housed, and DFSS staff described their outreach and housing-first work. Members asked about encampment cleanings, drug activity and propane tanks in encampments, factors in housing retention, and language access. The committee approved the December 2023 Rule 45 report and allowed Alderperson Monique L. Scott to attend remotely.

Topics: outside employment of alderpersons, ethics ordinance, financial interest disclosure, OIG audit, homeless encampments, accelerated moving events, rapid rehousing, propane tanks in encampments, shelter system, language access

### Agenda items discussed

- [6:57](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/5227C633-3BAF-EE11-A568-001DD8304C09?t=417) Motion to allow Alderperson Monique L. Scott to attend remotely under Rule 59: passed
- [7:26](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/5227C633-3BAF-EE11-A568-001DD8304C09?t=446) Rule 45 report for December 2023: passed
- [7:58](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/5227C633-3BAF-EE11-A568-001DD8304C09?t=478) Subject matter hearing on outside income and employment for alderpersons: discussed
- [1:05:13](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/5227C633-3BAF-EE11-A568-001DD8304C09?t=3913) Subject matter hearing on OIG audit of DFSS outreach to encampments of people experiencing homelessness: discussed

### Alderpersons who spoke

- [Matthew J. Martin](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/ward/47) (chair): Said the hearing concerns both outside income and outside employment and that it was held at the recommendation of the Board of Ethics. ([27:02](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/5227C633-3BAF-EE11-A568-001DD8304C09?t=1622)); Called the 80% housing retention finding encouraging and asked DFSS for annual funding sources, dollar amounts and staffing levels from 2020 through 2023. ([1:22:35](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/5227C633-3BAF-EE11-A568-001DD8304C09?t=4955)); Said the committee would make inquiries about propane tanks in encampments and follow up with departments, noting upcoming large events including the DNC. ([1:43:09](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/5227C633-3BAF-EE11-A568-001DD8304C09?t=6189))
- [Nicholas Sposato](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/ward/38) (alderperson): Asked whether barring alderpersons from outside employment would be legal and whether the proposal concerned outside income or outside employment. ([26:49](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/5227C633-3BAF-EE11-A568-001DD8304C09?t=1609)); Asked how restrictions would apply to attorneys doing unrelated work such as asylum cases, or to a family business like a daycare. ([28:53](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/5227C633-3BAF-EE11-A568-001DD8304C09?t=1733)); Objected to describing aldermanic salaries as generous, saying alderpersons work 60 to 80 hours a week. ([32:18](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/5227C633-3BAF-EE11-A568-001DD8304C09?t=1938))
- [Andre Vasquez Jr.](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/ward/40) (alderperson): Said past corruption cases fed public distrust and that public confidence in government supports considering limits on outside employment. ([34:24](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/5227C633-3BAF-EE11-A568-001DD8304C09?t=2064)); Asked whether there is data showing that bans on outside employment deter qualified candidates. ([35:12](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/5227C633-3BAF-EE11-A568-001DD8304C09?t=2112)); Asked why the municipal code designates the aldermanic job as part-time and whether that could be changed to full-time. ([36:47](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/5227C633-3BAF-EE11-A568-001DD8304C09?t=2207))
- [Bennett R. Lawson](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/ward/44) (alderperson): Asked whether a Board of Ethics complaint has ever led to criminal charges, noting that federal prosecutors have brought the major cases. ([42:39](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/5227C633-3BAF-EE11-A568-001DD8304C09?t=2559)); Asked whether the part-time designation is in state law and suggested changing it if the city can. ([44:16](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/5227C633-3BAF-EE11-A568-001DD8304C09?t=2656)); Said owning rental property differs from outside employment and asked whether Los Angeles or New York exempt landlords. ([44:35](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/5227C633-3BAF-EE11-A568-001DD8304C09?t=2675))
- [Brendan Reilly](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/ward/42) (alderperson): Asked whether any data show that outside employment bans reduce corruption. ([49:12](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/5227C633-3BAF-EE11-A568-001DD8304C09?t=2952)); Asked whether it makes sense to ban outside employment for city council but not for part-time state legislators. ([50:26](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/5227C633-3BAF-EE11-A568-001DD8304C09?t=3026)); Said a colleague coaches youth hockey for a stipend and that requiring him to give it up would not make sense. ([52:33](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/5227C633-3BAF-EE11-A568-001DD8304C09?t=3153))
- [Scott Waguespack](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/ward/32) (alderperson): Asked the Board of Ethics director to describe past council debates on conflicts of interest and fiduciary duty and how those rules addressed outside work. ([58:37](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/5227C633-3BAF-EE11-A568-001DD8304C09?t=3517))
- [Pat Dowell](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/ward/3) (alderperson): Said integrity cannot be legislated, favored guardrails and a surgical approach over a ban, and said she would not support an outright ban. ([1:03:14](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/5227C633-3BAF-EE11-A568-001DD8304C09?t=3794))
- [David H. Moore](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/ward/17) (alderperson): Said he agreed with the preceding colleague that integrity cannot be legislated. ([1:04:49](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/5227C633-3BAF-EE11-A568-001DD8304C09?t=3889)); Relayed a question on what factors distinguished participants who remained in stable housing from those who did not. ([1:44:27](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/5227C633-3BAF-EE11-A568-001DD8304C09?t=6267)); Asked whether DFSS could follow up with housed participants to identify common factors in housing retention. ([1:48:30](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/5227C633-3BAF-EE11-A568-001DD8304C09?t=6510))

### Exchanges between members

- [27:02](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/5227C633-3BAF-EE11-A568-001DD8304C09?t=1622) Sposato asked the chair whether the hearing concerned outside employment or outside income.
- [27:21](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/5227C633-3BAF-EE11-A568-001DD8304C09?t=1641) Martin answered that it covers both and referred the question to the Board of Ethics director.
- [34:14](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/5227C633-3BAF-EE11-A568-001DD8304C09?t=2054) Vasquez remarked on the number of side jobs Sposato had listed and later referred to his point about hours worked.
- [42:39](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/5227C633-3BAF-EE11-A568-001DD8304C09?t=2559) Lawson said he was building on Vasquez's questions about enforcement.
- [53:22](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/5227C633-3BAF-EE11-A568-001DD8304C09?t=3202) Reilly allowed Sposato to add a point about a colleague who coaches high school baseball.
- [53:49](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/5227C633-3BAF-EE11-A568-001DD8304C09?t=3229) Sposato thanked Reilly for letting him add his point.
- [54:42](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/5227C633-3BAF-EE11-A568-001DD8304C09?t=3282) Reilly said he agreed with Vasquez that a ban would not discourage talented people from running.
- [1:04:49](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/5227C633-3BAF-EE11-A568-001DD8304C09?t=3889) Moore said he echoed Dowell's remarks that integrity cannot be legislated.
- [1:43:09](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/5227C633-3BAF-EE11-A568-001DD8304C09?t=6189) Martin said Reilly raised an important issue on propane tanks and that the committee would follow up.
- [1:44:27](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/5227C633-3BAF-EE11-A568-001DD8304C09?t=6267) Moore relayed a question on housing retention on behalf of Dowell, who had left.
- [2:00:29](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/5227C633-3BAF-EE11-A568-001DD8304C09?t=7229) Vasquez said Moore raised a good point about unhoused residents and structure in shelters.

## Documents

- [Summary](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/files/clerk/meetingattachmentspublic/fcf54f98-bc8d-49b3-b732-477744a43a1a.pdf)
- [Agenda](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/files/clerk/meetingattachmentspublic/d2c25629-97b4-469f-9c16-9cada37f16b7.pdf)
- [Notice](https://www.chicagopolitics.org/files/clerk/meetingattachmentspublic/e50cdbee-51ba-4f2a-a919-5785b9a9da28.pdf)

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Source: https://www.chicagopolitics.org/meeting/5227C633-3BAF-EE11-A568-001DD8304C09 · Chicago Politics, an independent, nonpartisan tracker of the Chicago City Council. Guide for agents: https://www.chicagopolitics.org/llms.txt