oversight will now come to order we have 2 sets of items on today's agenda first a subject matter hearing on the office of Inspector. General's follow-up to the audit of the Department of buildings permit inspection process and second a subject matter hearing on the Inspector General Offices quarterly report for the first quarter of 2024. We will begin with a roll call to establish Quorum. Please note that your yes or present response will be deemed a yes vote when this Quorum is used for a reference vote for later items. Chairman. Martin is present Vice chair Haden president. alderwoman Lee present Alderman OSHA here alderwoman Taylor alderwoman sabaris alderwoman Scott Alderman Talia faroh Alderman waguespack alderman, pisado alderwoman nent Alderman Vasquez Alderman Reilly Alderman Lawson with 7 members present. We have a quorum Alderman Spas has requested remote participation in this Committee hearing under rule 59. Is there a motion to allow him to do so so Alder Alderman OSHA so moves all those in favor signify by saying I all those opposed say no the eyes have it Alderman's pisado will attend the committee meeting remotely at this time. We will begin public comment this period is set for 30 minutes and out of respect for everyone's Time Each speaker is limited to 3 minutes of public comment. We have 1 person signed up Jessica Jackson. Miss Jackson, are you here? Okay, he's coming. Okay. Sounds like she will be here momentarily. All right. Bye. Thank you, Miss Jackson. Please proceed when you are settled and comfortable Oh by all means. Over there. Yeah, I figured. It out last night. If somebody is behind me, they can go you you are our first and last person. So, please please take your time. We're not in a rush. Oh, here it is. Thanks. When you get you get your time back what you said like soccer time back. Oh, it's being fun. Okay, thanks. All right, so Um yesterday, we talked started the conversation which is a very good conversation, especially for ethics and I'm gonna try to read this as fast as possible for my time. Um, it's a article that Willie Wilson prior male candidate had written to the Chicago Tribune. in July on July 13 2023 and it's called Black America in Chicago and throughout the United States. It's in crisis. And it is Foolery to think that anyone will step in and save us. And it reads the solutions to our Liberation must come from within we must accept responsibility for what is happening in the black community for the last 60 years. The majority of black Americans have been stuck in place. The unprecedented number of black elected officials in Illinois, and Nationwide should leave to a qualitative improvements of the black community but significant political power while black people at the top of the list for negative social economic indicators, why black children in Chicago Public Schools failing further behind why is black on black crime out of control in Chicago and other major cities, in fact more than 80% of the victims of gun violence in Chicago are black. What is the gap in Social disparities? Why is the gap in Social disparities whitening whitening, the question must be raised are black political civil rights and church leaders being used to oppress black people. I know that discrimination and systemic racism still exists. However, we must hold our black elected officials accountable for their actions and inaction towards improving conditions in black neighborhoods. It is the oppression of black elected leaders of black people that troubles me in 1984 more than 2/3 of the Congressional Black Caucus helped pass the oppressive violent crime control and law enforcement. Forcement Act of 1994 also known as the crime bill the bill led to devastating consequences in Black American civil rights. Lawyer Michelle Alexander Chronicles the impact of the crime Bill and her book the new Jim Crow America has the highest prison population in the world with more than 2 million people incarcerated the crime Bill provided 12.5 billion for prison construction and states that require inmates to serve at least 85% of their sentences were rewarded. in Cook County Let me move to this part. Black voters have been conditioned to accept the absolute least from black elected officials. Also black elected officials have been a Droid at using Republicans as the boogeyman standing in the way of progress. Well in Illinois, they cannot blame Republicans because Democrats have authority Thank you. Miss Jackson. Your time is up. um We uh, our first order of business is the rule 45 report from June 2024, which was sent out to the committee. Can I have a motion to approve this report? Alderman Reilly so moves all those in favor signify by saying I all those opposed say no and the opinion of the chair the eyes have it. We will now begin the subject matter here in regarding the office of Inspector. General's follow-up to the audit of the Department of buildings, uh, permit inspection process. I would like to introduce Inspector General Deborah witzburg to provide a brief summary of the offices report, uh General at your convenience. Thank you. Good morning. Thank you for having me. Um, I uh, we're I'm here to talk a bit about a recent follow-up report. We issued as you mentioned chairman on the on our 2022 audit of the Department of buildings permit inspections process. I'm going to talk briefly about our original 2022 audit and then um talk at a high level about the findings in our follow-up. Um, I should say I I appreciate the department of buildings engagement with the office of Inspector General during both our original audit and our follow-up. Um in 2022, we published an original audit report on the department of buildings permit inspections process. The conclusion of that audit is here. We found that the department of buildings relied on requests from permit holders to schedule required inspections while that process complied with the Chicago construction codes. It did not serve to ensure that permit holders requested all required inspections that is to say there are a number of inspections associated with different trades attendant to each kind of permit. Um, and the process in place was reactive to requests from permit holders rather than proactive to ensure that all of the required inspections were conducted we found that dob did not have a process to determine which permits require inspections or which inspections remained outstanding we found that the department reliably requested inspections for those buildings, which required certificates of occupancy, but only those and that's a that's a only a subset of buildings. In some the reactive approach allowed for the construction and occupation of some buildings, which do not require certificates of occupancy without the completion of all required inspections. There's obviously a life and safety concern underlying this where those inspections serve to to assure the safety of those buildings, um further in that 2022 report. We found that the inspection process except where a certificate of occupancy is required. Um, the process allowed some permit holders to construct and occupy buildings that had not passed all required inspections during our period of inquiry. So between January 1st of 2017 and the end of 2019, the department of buildings issued 5351 new construction permits. We looked at that population of permits in April of 2021 and found that the department of buildings had conducted all related inspections for only about 17% of those permits. Now, that would be true for many reasons including perhaps that some of that work was never done Etc. And so we looked a little bit further into that information. We found that there was in fact a population of buildings. We identified at a minimum 42 buildings, which had been fully constructed, um, where less than half of the required inspections had been conducted. Um, we found that the department of buildings is very successful in scheduling inspections where there was a request. So 91.5% of the time there was a request the department scheduled an inspections. Um, but but the department did not ensure that all permit holders requested the required inspections and because this was the only process that's in place is this reactive 1 there is no way to account for all of those permits where there is not an Associated requested inspection. Further we found that operational inconsistencies and a lack of monitoring tools prevented dob from effectively tracking, uh, its permit inspections performance. So we made a series of recommendations in the 2022 report which are summarized here. We recommended that the department of buildings develop and Implement procedures to identify those inspections that are required by the construction code and ensure that it completes them that dob proactively monitor permits with no requests for required inspections. Um, we suggested that to facilitate that proactive monitoring dob should ensure that its staff its inspectors and supervisors use its current information management system. That's Hansen 7 in a more effective and consistent manner. We're going to talk a little bit more about Hansen 7 in just a moment because I think that's critical here. And then finally we suggested that dob consider alternative procedures to ensure that a wider range of permit holders in uh request inspections. So we looked at the example we give here is the possibility of requiring more buildings to receive a certificate of occupancy because we found that for those buildings that do require those certificates that final kind of well-being check before the building is occupied. Um, the department of buildings was much more successful in completing all of the required inspections and the suggestion there was that if that is working to ensure that more of these inspections occur to minimize Life Safety risks that broadening that range maybe 1 1 mechanical I mentioned hands and 7 that is the Department of Billings. Other folks here from from dob and from DTI and I will certainly defer to their expertise on the details of the system. But broadly Hansen 7 is the information management system in use at dob. Um and the the replacement the process to replace that system with a better 1 has been underway as dob described in its response to us for more than a decade. Um, I I don't doubt that that system needs to be replaced in the meantime. Um, it is I think important to consider what improvements are possible with the current system. Um, so that we can mitigate these Life Safety risks today, even while we pursue this decade-long project to replace the system. So specifically we looked at a number of ways that use of the current system could be improved even while we work toward replacing it with a better system and some of those recommended improvements are here, um to ensure that inspectors and staff consistently and Appropriately close out permits in the system that staff close inspections that are incorrectly assigned during plan review to create categories to differentiate between permits that require inspections. And those that do not to provide training to ensure that staff are using the system consistently and correctly and to expand the use of existing automatically generated monitoring reports if those are effective or to design new reports in the existing system to better support Pro. active monitoring So, um as is our regular practice, we conducted a follow-up where we go back to an audit T some amount of time later and ask for a status update on implementation of corrective actions. That that follow-up inquiry is the report that we published recently and the conclusion in our 2024 follow-up was that dob has not implemented corrective actions. Um, we urged again in the follow-up that dob developed procedures to identify required inspections and ensure that they're completed before a building is fully constructed. We continue to urge dob, uh to improve the effectiveness and consistency of its use of its current information system again, even while pursuing replacement of that system with a with 1, that would be more effective. Um, Some observations in our follow-up, um dob reported in in response to our follow-up inquiry that it is completed 2 of 4 phases to migrate permit inspection processes out of Hansen 7. Um, and is looking to complete that migration in mid 2026. We note that that process of which dob reports having completed 2 or 4 phases would would certainly improve some of the problems here. It should reduce the number of permits that are inaccurately flagged for inspection. Um, it does not appear that that automation would in fact serve to ensure that all required inspections are conducted. Dob reported, um that it implemented a manual monitoring process for permits with no inspections for more than 6 months. DB did not provide oig with records of that process. Um, but reported that it had implemented it. Dob did not report developing any processes to improve the utility of Hansen 7. And again, I think this is really critical. I I I do not doubt dob's position that Hansen 7 needs to be replaced. We would certainly be supportive of a more effective system to replace that in the meantime, especially given the the length of time for which the replacement of Hansen 7 has been pending. Using what we have better to mitigate life and safety risks. In the meantime, I think is critical. Um, and finally dob did not in response to our follow-up inquiry provide any alternative procedures to ensure that permit holders request inspections again, like like broadening the range of buildings requiring certificates of occupancy or or something similar. So finally the conclusion of our follow-up inquiry is here that our initial audit found that dob's inspection processes allow buildings not requiring certificates of occupancy to be Constructed and in fact occupied without passing all required inspections. This creates potential safety risks for people using those buildings. And in fact contravenes dob's Mission and enforcement of the Chicago construction codes. Um, the Department's response to our follow-up inquiry as we've talked about here this morning focuses on a future system implementation rather than process improvements in the current system. Um, that's a a system implementation which has been uh, by dob's account in in the works for more than a decade. Um, and we continue to urge dob to develop procedures to identify these required inspections and ensure that they are completed before Chicagoans are occupying buildings of which we cannot ensure the safety. Um, so again, I appreciate dob's cooperation with our work here and I'm happy to answer any questions from the committee. Thank you General. We're going to take uh, 2 items quickly out of order 1 with alderwoman Scott who's requested remote participation and then you Mr. Blake Moore. Um, just got your pink slip, uh, before we go to our our 2 departmental Representatives. So first alderwoman Scott has requested a remote participation under rule 59. Is there a motion to allow her to attend Alderman Noe so moves all those in favor signify by saying I all those opposed say no in the opinion of the chair the eyes have it alderwoman. Scott is allowed to attend the committee meeting remotely, uh second. Um, if someone from technology, uh, Is available. I don't see so I will set a 3 minute timer on my phone Mr. Blakemore, uh apologies for the delay and allowing you to uh, provide public comment. Um, your 3 minutes will uh start as soon as you begin speaking. Thank you, sir. I see progress. 2 meetings what's going on at the same time? And uh We can't get back ourself with 1 meeting and the other meeting. Thank you very much. Uh, uh considering that The organization the way you have it set up never should you have 2 meetings going on at the same time? And but now we're dealing with the building department. We have a new director, uh commissioner of the building department, but the previous 1 told me Mr. Blake Moore had for the buildings in the city of Chicago have violations. I couldn't believe it when I went up in the building that I lived in 1347 North Durban and uh, uh for years. I I had no heat. No, he the baller system was gone. The New Orleans didn't install any heat or why did you stay there Mr. Blakemore? I was a customer. I was there 25 years. Before and then back on a slowly to another owner, so I wanted to stay there. So I I I received no heat. And I paid market value. 1,000 and 50 a month not subsidy But there was a lot of money back in the day on the Gold Coast. no, he and also when I went to the Paul and spoke about the the elevators of 1 working in the sprinkles and these high rises not working these rich white folks say we not going to install any any a sprinkler system. It costs too much money and they didn't and they did. So it's something inherently wrong with the building department, but we can't lay it on this lady this new lady. It's a culture of corruption there. What happening pay to play? But pay to play be a prophet pay the the building department. And they said I was a hoarder. I had so much at the window. I pay my rent. I'm supposed to have heat and if I'm a bad housekeeper you move me out, but no they took this rent. and no heat So it's something very wrong with this system here in the city of Chicago and I blame it all on a140 system no checks and balance. But I blame it on it's like to come in this party, but they very effective and then I have this hat say make America great again. When was she great and I'm vote for Trump. When was she great? I want Trump to make it your 3 minutes are up. So thank you very much. Thank you, Mr. Blakemore. I need to speak to make God bless you, sir. You're welcome. Um, uh commissioner Hopkins if you can come up at your convenience, thank you, uh for your patience and just for the committee members we're going to hear remarks from commissioner Hopkins and then both uh, commissioner Hopkins and chief Lucius will be available to answer questions together. Um Chief if you want to just come up right now, that's fine as well as team members and commissioner if there's anyone else from your team. I see at least 1 if you can um introduce them as well and proceed at your convenience. Thank you. Good morning. Morning, Marlene Hopkins commissioner for the Department of buildings and I have with me today Grant. Alric my managing Deputy Commissioner. Thank you. Good morning. Everyone Nick luch this Chief Information officer. And I have with me, um head of planning Melissa Clark and our um business relationship manager Eric tenfelde. Thank you. Hansen 7 when it was developed 20 years ago was not built to do 4 things 1 remind permit holders and contractors when inspection deadlines are approaching 2 automatically notify the bureaus when permanent inspections have not been requested 3 to close out permits at the completion of the inspection process or 4 to suspend permits that go too long without passing and inspection. in 2022, the oig recommended the dob develop and Implement procedures to identify required inspections and ensure that it completes them. The department implemented a daily report that was created permits issued 6 months ago. Inspections not completed. This report is delivered daily via email to the respective Chiefs and supervisors of each Bureau. If the report identifies permits that have not been inspected. By the respective Bureau the chief and or supervisor does research to see if there have been any inspections because the report will show for each Bureau which inspections have or have not so a permit may have had a new construction inspection, but may not have had an electrical or plumbing inspection. The permit information is provided to the inspectors in the respective bureaus as part of their daily work assignments and upon completion of the inspection. The Inspectors make notes on the permit status whether the work has started whether there's no work in progress. additionally As We are continuing to migrate into IPS 11 we migrated our Express permits which is 2/3 of the permits issued by the department of buildings For those permits before permit can be issued each contractor listed on a permit is notified by email and must accept that they will be performing the work to be permitted. This process ensures dob has a valid email contact for each contractor. Once the express permit is issued the permit certificate States if inspections are required or not. Both the permit applicant and listed contractors are able to see the types of required inspections by logging into the permit portal. the portal also shows inspection results when inspections are required for an Express permit in the deadline to request inspection is approaching the permit applicant and all contractors are notified that the permit will be suspended if inspections are not requested by the deadline. if there's still no inspection, the status of the permit is changed to suspended and a reinstatement fee is added unlike Hansen 7 the IPS 11 system was built to automatically enforce these rules. By the end of september of this year. 2/3 of the permits issued by our department on an annual basis will be in this much more capable system. In the 2022, um, oig audit oig recommended that we the department of buildings proactively monitor permits with no requests for required inspections and develop monitoring tools and procedures to determine the status of buildings. In addition to the Daily report of Aging permits that have not been inspected within 6 months of permit issuance to work on IPS 11 dob continues to work with DTI to evaluate the phys feasibility of an interim measure in Hansen 7. So in 2020 we asked. DTI I always want to say do it but it's DTI to evaluate changes to Hansen 7 to automatically void plan based building permits that did not have inspection results entered within 6 months of issuance. after an initial evaluation, the following was determined using the void status would cause issued permits to disappear from the public data portal listing of all issue permits and a different status would need to differentiate suspended permits from voided permits. suspended permits would not disappear from the public access in the same way that truly voided permits do and a more involved it solution would need to be designed to solve this. It's also important to note that while Hansen 7 marks a permit issued when the final permit fee is added. Pursuant to the municipal code building permits are not valid into the permit fee is paid. Applicants generally have 120 days to pay the final permit fee after being notified of the final permit fee amount. Unfortunately again a system constraint with Hansen 7 was not built with the ability to calculate 6 months from the date of payment. We are currently working with DTI to implement a process to suspend any permits that have not had an inspection performed within 6 months. But it has required us to do a lot of deep dives into the data to ensure that we are getting the proper permits into that process. We are currently working to clean up the status of existing plant-based building permit records in Hansen 7. We have found through this analysis that there are over 130,000 plant-based permit records that appear to be open and awaiting inspection including some permits issued more than 20 years ago. So there is just a lot of data that has to be we have to dig through we got to get to the good data in order to implement the system properly. We are currently finalizing this review of the remaining records. And we are anticipating that we will have a system going live sometime before the end of the third quarter of this year. in the 2022 oig, um recommendations the recommended that we Insurance inspectors and supervisors use Hansen 7 more effectively and in a consistent manner. The bureau Chiefs and supervisors have met with the inspectors and showed each of them how to appropriately Mark permits complete enhancing 7 if that inspector is approving the last required inspection for that permit. The system does not automatically stage progress a permit to close once all inspections are completed. It's a manual process. So the bureau that is completing that final inspection is responsible in each of the Chiefs and supervisors have trained their inspectors how to do this. The bureau's supervisors and Chiefs have also been authorized and trained to close inspections that are incorrectly assigned during plan review. on a parallel track the team at City Hall is working with staff on what inspections to add to plan based permits. That are being issued reviewed and issued. The implementation of Express permits has identified the permits that are required inspections versus those that do not as additional permit types are moved into IPS 11. This capability will expand. Staff is trained to enter their inspection results into Hansen 7 Again by their respective supervisor and or Chiefs and when issues are identified staff is canceled on how to improve and as we have hired new inspectors. We are spending the time to ensure that they are getting this proper training, but they're less acclimated with the system. So the learning curve is a little larger for them as opposed to the inspectors that have been with the department since the implementation of Hansen 7. As already noted dob is working to redesign. reports and training supervisors to use these as an intra measure as we continue to work closely with DTI on the migration of all of our plan based permits from Hansen 7 into IPS 11 lastly Excuse me. the oig recommended the dob consider procedures to ensure that permit holders requested inspections such as expanding the Universe of buildings to receive certificate of occupancy When we looked at this on a larger scale, it's just not feasible. The certificate of occupancy teams work their for inspectors assigned. There's a carpenter there's an electrician there's a plumber and there is a mechanical inspector the volume of inspections that those teams currently do keep them busy each and every single day Staffing levels do not allow for us to expand and add additional Co teams to do these type of inspections. Cables are for large complex projects. highrises mid-rises buildings senior buildings facil larger Construction in each of your respective Wards the permits that we that is referenced in the oig's report are those that are trade specific and require an electrician a carpenter a plumber but it's a single family residence. It's a 2 flat. It's a 3 flat 4 unit 6 units things on a much smaller scale. What We are continuing to do is to use existing tools to go after contractors who chronically fail to request required inspections under its bad actor ordinance Earlier this year dob and law announced a 2.2 million dollar settlement in litigation against a contractor for just such misconduct. Homeowners who purchase homes that were renovated by this contractor are now eligible for up to $0 to fix construction deficiencies. But the department of buildings remains very committed. to ensuring that we are implementing processes procedures and a system that will be more effective and enable us to ensure that we are Ensuring inspections are being done for any of the permits that we issue and we are putting in place a system that will automatically not only suspend but send notification to the pro permit holders as well as the owners that their permits have been suspended due to no inspections been requested. Thank you. Thank you commissioner. I want to acknowledge Alderman Vasquez for purposes of Quorum will now open things up to questions for both departments starting with Alderman, Noe. Thank you chairman. Thank you commissioner. Um I spent a lot of time each week. On court calls, uh properties we have in building Court in the 19th Ward hundreds and hundreds of buildings. Those cases get continued and continued and continued. Tremendous resources from the building department are on those calls. We've had this round of storms the last few days. I think it's safe to say many of the people that would be doing some of the work we're talking about this morning. Are going to be out on the street. Checking high-rises that don't have electricity and such. It sounds to me here like we have both a technology issue. He had a staffing issue. Um and In my almost 14 years as Alderman and even before that working for my predecessor, you were always my first phone call and a crisis commissioner and always appreciate your responsiveness. Um, chief obviously you're very new to this but you've understood we have shortcomings and technology advancements in all our departments when we talk about this issue here today brought before us. What is the cost? And what is the time frame to modernize? The billing department, uh, so that moving forward. tens of thousands of of permits backed up and I'm I don't mean to put you on the spot but uh appreciate you being here a ballpark. What what are we looking at here? Sure. Uh, thank you Alderman. Um, I'm gonna address a couple of um, contextual points and then and then um, um, refer to 1 of my colleagues for overall costs. But um in 2004 when this system was put into place it was when um, a lot of organizations were um in the habit of buying a piece of technology putting it into deployment and then walking away from it and then waiting like a building waiting for it to um, get into the shape where hey we need to buy a new 1, um, that practice has um shifted, The private sector and is starting to shift in governments because of the acknowledgement that the pace of change is fast and we'll always be fast and Technology world and the only way to ensure that we don't end up in a space like this again is to never stop improving and to adopt a mindset of continuous Improvement in um, um, the work is never done and we always have to ensure that. Um, we're making changes to the system or also, you know ordinance has changed, uh factors on the ground change. So in 1 s there's um there there and this is not in just the buildings world, but in all the world of government technology, we'll have to adopt toward a um continual cost of continuous Improvement if we want to not end up in a situation like this, um in the future with any of our systems. Um, so that's 1 Factor. I'm not I don't have numbers here for today is um, once we're done with this modernization. Um, what is the um continual cost that we need to encourage? Make sure that we're we're staying out of this in the long term. Um, this project itself is on Pace to be concluded in 2026. So we're looking at a 2-year project. Um, and for the actual I I think we have some pretty good ballpark numbers on budgeted costs, but I will defer to I know Eric or Melissa if you want to come up and answer this 1 Sir, if you can please identify yourself for the record. Thank you. Yes, good morning. My name is Eric tenfelde. I'm the customer service relationship manager for Department of technology and innovation. So, um, we've done some estimates and and and it was recommended from previous commissioners of the Department of buildings. And from the uh, AIS I uh that that 5 million million dollars be budgeted for the budget years, uh, and and where that you know money comes from from what particular aspect is not, you know an error my expertise but um, you know, I had seen that, you know emails go back and forth at 5 million dollars was to be allocated for the budget years of of 2024 and 2025. So we're about a quarter of the way through with that spend in uh, 2024 and then would you know estimate that we would be on track to be, you know concluded with that, um, 5 million dollar spend by the end of 2025 for a go live in 2026. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you commissioner. Uh, that's all chamber. Thank you Alderman alderwoman, Manhattan. Thank you chair. Um. I guess a point of clarification on the on the spend piece and maybe this is a through the chair request. I'll say um, so 5 million is what we Estimated will get us through will that complete the project though? So I just in and not to make you come back up here. Um, uh if you need to so sorry to have you run back and forth, but just wondering right will the 5 million complete the project and then um, uh, Nick just for clarification and is that project? Um what we're talking about the uh, what commissioner Hopkins had been mentioning of kind of working on the modifying hands and 7 or is this in looking at how IPS 11 is going to take over more of the system? Thank you all or woman. So I'll say at a high level and then pass it over to Eric. Um the the way these um large and really even smaller projects go with technology these days is um, the best practice is to um, create the budget that matches your research, um, and um instead of Of saying this is going to for sure do all these things that we want to do. Um is to loosen, um and have more flexible goals and say these are the major goals. We want to complete with this technology project and then work regularly to those goals and phases. So it's it creates the sometimes uncomfortable situation where it's difficult to promise that it's going to be able to do exactly a b or c but it is pretty easy to say, um, we're going to achieve monetization where we get it into the cloud and we get off of Old technology that are expensive to maintain we have better ability to move data back and forth. We have a more flexible ability to change fields to adopt to different operational needs which then puts us in a situation where we should be able to say sure basically with these new with with most, um, workflow based technology systems these days you can pretty much make any workflow work and then it becomes a problem of something like what's the staff that you have? What is the operational world that you have and what really makes sense from a techn? Technology point of view. Um, so that just gets down to the nitty-gritty from there. So overall, um, this should set us up to be able to really do anything within the world of practical reality and and what what we would want to do and then I'll I'll pass it over to Eric if you want to if there's any more that you want to say about the budget and what are this is going to accomplish to try again. yeah, well, I would state that that our our plan that we have with the phased approach which has phases a through D. When we complete phase D all of the critical permit processes that the department of buildings currently administers will be migrated over to IPS 11 and they're Associated inspection processes. Thank you. Nice nice and clear. Um, and I think then my last follow-up question is again just for clarity. Um, ideally if that's on track all all of these processes, we will be migrated to IPS 11. So am I to understand then that that would also be if this project is completed on time that you guys would not be needing to primarily use Hansen 7. Okay. Thank you. Thanks. Sure. Yeah, I think um a general. Uh, we have a request to go back, uh, a slider or 2, uh is is that's official Alderman waguespack or a different slide? backing up that that's me great. Uh Alderman Vasquez Thank you chairman. Uh, thank you so much all for being here. Uh, I I don't have a lot of questions. It's kind of following up on what some of our colleagues are asking. Um, so I agree with uh, my colleague Otay that it does appear to be both a technology and a staffing uh issue. Um, I know in previous budgets we brought up like Department of Finance Department of buildings, uh Department of Health, uh, these they have workers who fundamentally Not to be so. I'll just say it straight up their revenue earners compared to other ones right people violate because they're not doing what they're supposed to they then pay fines those revenues then and some regard help cover some of the costs and and honestly just lead to better services. So when we talk about expanding staff, what are those conversations look like because we know as we're heading into budget they're going to be asking for our support and I know something I've said year over year is we need to increase the staff for those departments that need it to make sure people are safe and also, They generate a little more Revenue than some of the other positions we're talking about. So for buildings while we do issue violations, the goal is not fines because what we really want people to do is to make the repairs to their properties to bring the properties back into compliance. And as Alderman OSHA alluded to the court process is a very lengthy process. A lot of property owners do not have the financial ability to make the needed repairs and the inspectors are needed in court to provide the judges with a status of compliance. We utilize Administrative Hearings and people go to Administrative Hearings. They don't make the repairs to their buildings. They're fine. We we're getting those fines, but we're ultimately not getting a safe building. So the building department as an enforcer of the building code, our primary focus is to make sure people are reinvested in these buildings to bring them into compliance and there aren't any low-hanging portions of the building code where it could just be a ticket and fines could be Jenner. It that way, unfortunately sure well even to that point and I think it's even more important than than the revenue piece right to make sure that building to come online. Uh, we all know we've got What our term to some Lords in different words that no matter what you do and how much we're going to record. They're not fixing anything. But there is a lot of safety that could be added by doing so similarly you need staff to do so, so the conversations about increasing staff to do that increasing the staff definitely is something we can discuss. But if we're trying to tie a revenue component to it sure less that and it's more safety. For instance yesterday. We were in the 20th Ward and Not only was there a senior building without power but there were homes where senior resided that didn't have power. So we had our Manpower out there today as I'm sitting here before you I have 4 senior buildings that are without power with no air conditioning and I have inspectors that are there. So our Department's mission is to ensure that we are responding to those buildings that now of course this isn't the building owner's fault. It's the storms that created these conditions, but we are just enforcers of the cold to ensure safe. Sure. Yeah. I just and we have the same responsibility for safe construction as well. Yeah, and I think and I appreciate that. I think I think I guess what I'm trying to signal and say straight up is when they come to budget. We better see increases in those staff or it's going to be a different conversation. So, uh, thank you very much. Thank you chair. Thank you. Any other questions from Alders Alderman Reilly. Thanks chairman. Then if you could leave this slide up, um, just because it's part of the presentation. I wanted to give the department a chance to respond. on bullet point number 2, um, the oig reports that uh, the manual reporting monitoring process for permits with no inspections for more than 6 months, but you didn't provide any records. Could you explain why not? Sodom and Riley what I will say is that the former commissioner is the person that provided the response back to the oig and I'm not in a position to be able to really explain why those records weren't provided but they are available and can be sent to the Inspector General. Immediately for her team to review very good. So I expect that will happen. And again, I'm not going to punish you for your predecessors mistakes. And you know, I was not a huge fan of his um for the next uh bullet point. Um, so I understand all the work that DTI will be performing. I know that you've been kind of a victim of this clunky system and and that's no fault of yours. And I'm glad that we're making upgrades. Um, but I think the IG does raise a good point, what's the plan in the interim knowing that Hansen 7 is imperfect and the fact that there are some process points here that have been flagged most importantly, um, you know ensuring that we're we're not allowing folks to occupy fully constructed buildings that have not been inspected. Um to me that's a real big red flag. I mean, I think that's Mission Number 1 I understand the volumes that you're dealing with are gigantic and that you do have a staffing issue and I agree with my colleague. You should definitely put in your budget submission more headcount. Um because your job is very very important. Um, but I guess my question is between now and what we hope is salvation through dti's work. How are we going to get there? Making sure that we're we're having the proper inspections done. Um that we're flagging internally when a project has to have some inspections done before giving a CO, um, what are we going to do to bridge that Gap? So the daily report is 1 of the interim measures which again goes to each of the Chiefs and the supervisors. They do a review of that report and they give those permits to their inspectors as part of their daily assignments to go to the site to do an inspection to see if work is in progress or if work isn't in progress any inspector is putting that information back into the system just as they do with all of the requested inspections when we do those inspections, we enter our inspection findings. So that is the interim measure in addition. We are well, that's the most important 1 we are also um, we have posted all of our vacancies. We are attempting to hire building construction inspectors because that's the 1 area where we need the most positions. But what we have found over time is that we do the interviews. They come in to do the next phase of the hiring process, whether it's the drug testing the physical they don't pass we can't move forward with a higher. So that's been some of the challenges that we have dealt with. Um, and again with permit holders that are not when we find repeat offenders through our bad contractor ordinance. We are calling those contractors in and we are meeting with them and letting them know that that their licenses are, you know on the line and could be suspended for a period of time until they bring their act in in order. So we have suspended a number of those contractors licenses to hold their feet to the fire to get their inspections. Not only uh completed before we are then allowing them to start back. And so when these daily reports are issued out to the Chiefs and assignments are are given to inspectors. Are those prioritized or is it just they get a batch of the 130,000 or so inspections that need to occur. So every day so the the report is generated between 4:30 and 5:00 in the morning. So it is sitting there when the supervisor and chief comes in the inspectors that are in those areas based on the number of permits that are on there. It may be only 2 for electrical. It may be 5 for plumbing. It might be zero for new construction. It just varies for each respective Bureau the inspectors that are assigned to each of the areas that is closest to that stop. They're giving that and that's just an additional permit inspection that they're going to do for that day. I see. Um, so so you don't rank the the urgency or importance of an inspection, you know say it's a A mid-rise or a high-rise nearing completion. Um, that wouldn't be thrown on the top of the list versus a single family that's fixing a basement, you know, so the the challenge with that is that the scheduled permanent inspection. Just we have committed to that contractor that we're going to be there between 8 and 12:00 or 2 and 3. So the inspector is doing the ones that are flagged on that report after all of their schedule stops are completed. I see. Okay. So the priority is given because they're getting to it that day when that is per included as part of their work. Okay, um, and there was another statistic in in the slide deck. Um, that was towards the beginning and it was was it 17% or so of all there we go. So dob issued over 5,000 new construction permits between 2017 and 2019 as of April 27th, 2021 conducted all related inspections for 17% of those permits. Um, I guess and then can we go back to the slide we were just on um It seems that the IG is linked part of that kind of glaring number, um to the fact that um, we don't seem to have a real good accountability tool for ensuring that contractors are requesting the required inspections. And I know that right now that's a function of data technology. How are we going to address that in the interim? Um, I was actually and I've been here a while as you know, um surprised by that number but also that we rely so heavily upon folks to voluntarily request. Inspections rather than telling them. Um, so what about that issue? How are we going to tackle that? So you can't tell a contractor when they have to start a job. They have 6 months to start the work the that code is clear on that. So again through these daily reports that we receive that goes to each of the respective bureaus We are following up that way and if we find that there has not work has not started then that permit goes into a suspended. category So then that way through that suspension process that permit is essentially. No work can should be should be done under it. Until a reinstatement application is submitted to the Department. For the work to begin, so I understand that so I mean, how are you keeping track of that? Then we so the daily report. Once the inspector goes out he or she has to put just like a scheduled inspection where the inspector puts into the system what their inspection outcome was or is that is the exact same thing that happens with those permits that are listed on that report. So the permits been issued to a project and they haven't requested any inspections of you and say they're 5 months into their 6-month permit. Um is at any point in time does dob say hmm, you know, we haven't noticed any activity on this this permit. We're going to go take a look at what's going on. The site does that happen proactively or not so much. No, not so much because the the code allows 6 months for that permit before the permit is is no longer active sure. I understand, you know part of the problem. We have obviously beyond the resources. Is that for a number of us and I'm 1 of the people who notices, uh, funky looking things occurring at weird hours of the night related to building construction. Um given the nature of my ward. Um, my concern is that A lot of folks wave the permit around as you get out of jail free card, um when the police are called or a different department shows up on a site they say we've got a permit. um Doesn't mean that they can be doing jackhammering at 3 in the morning. Right, but they waive that permit around as such I guess the concern is that a lot of folks once they have the permit they're not expecting to be inspected. And in fact, they get away with a lot of stuff because you folks don't randomly stopped by and In fairness and thank you to you and your department when my office does call you're incredibly responsive. And so thank you for that. Um, I'm not complaining about you or your staff. I'm suggesting you need more resources and I if there need to be adjustments and how the code reads to empower your folks more or give you some latitude or some breathing room to be able to do randomized inspections from time to time. I think you'll find some of these contractors will um self police and behave better. If there's a threat of being caught it's like the same thing. I tell the police department when we talk about the CTA security. You know, you put a copper 2 on a train once in a while. And once in a while someone gets arrested for selling crack on the train. Chances are there's going to be a little less crack sales on the train, um that applies here as well. And so again, I do hope that that this is reflected in your budget request. Um, I'll be 1 of the people to help Champion that because your work is that important. Um, but I also want to thank the Inspector General for flagging these things and I know many of these are from your predecessors, Time running the department. Um, I have a lot of faith that you're going to implement these changes. Um, but I think a lot of this be driven by your budget this fall so I look forward to seeing that thank you chairman. Thank you Alderman any other questions, um, seeing none. Thank you both commissioner and Chief and to your respective teams as well as you General General. We're going to ask you to stick around a little longer, um, uh to the second part of the hearing which is a subject matter hearing regarding the office of Inspector. General's quarterly report for the fourth quarter. I'm sorry first quarter. Quarter of 2024. Um General if you can reintroduce yourself for the record and then walk us through a summary certainly, uh, good morning again. I'm Deborah witzburg Inspector General for the city. Um, I am now going to talk through our first quarter report, uh, the municipal code of Chicago mandates that our office issue a report for each quarter detailing the offices work, um and chairman. I I appreciate your invitation to come before this committee to to talk about each of these reports. I think that's a that's a very important, um innovation in the cooperation between our office in this committee. So I appreciate your invitation to do this. Um, just for purposes of clarity here. We issued a quarterly report yesterday for the second quarter that is not the 1 which we'll discuss today today. We'll discuss the report for the first quarter of the Year covering the work of the office from the beginning of the year through the end of March of 2024. um In terms of an overview of the first quarter of this year. Um We we really built on the progress in 2023. So I was before the committee a few months ago. We talked about that fourth quarter report from 2023 and talked about some of the measurable successes that we saw at the end of last year those included a reduction in our backlog of old cases our full and effective compliance with consent decree requirements, uh Etc and and from my perspective in the first quarter of this year. We were really able to continue to build on some of that progress. Um, We focused attention in this first quarter attention and resources on in the investigation of Acts of serious misconduct of the sort which undermines public trust in government that is from my perspective how we meet the mission of of the office. You all have heard me talk about the fact that I I think of the city of Chicago as operating at a deficit of legitimacy with its residents and in a world of finite time and finite resources, we try to focus our attention on those issues where we can best pay down that deficit of legitimacy. I think among the criticisms that have been leveled at this office historically, perhaps not altogether unfairly, um was that when it came to our misconduct investigations, we expended a lot of investigative resources, but when it actually came down to the the rubber meeting the road in the quarterly reports the kinds of misconduct which on which we reported investigations did not sort of meet the the seriousness of the kinds of things that people were experiencing in their interactions with city government did not did not m with those issues which were most contributing to mistrust and distrust in city government. And so we've really tried to focus our investigative resources on those acts of serious misconduct. um uh as part of that 1 of the other things evidenced in our in this quarterly report for the first quarter was more aggressive enforcement of the rules, which require cooperation with oig's investigations and prohibit obstruction and interference, uh with oig investigations. That is that is how we go about doing our work is ensuring that we have access to the people and information and materials that we need to do it. Um, the other note on this quarterly report is that this marked a Improvement in in the information that we publish about our reviews of closed Chicago Police Department disciplinary cases. So 1 of the statutory mandates of our Public Safety section is to review individual closed police misconduct investigations conducted by cpd's Bureau of internal affairs and by Coppa and to make recommendations to reopen those disciplinary investigations, which we find to be materially deficient historically, we have published anonymized summaries of those of those reviews of those recommendations to reopen that is out of line, um with the law and practice around transparency of police misconduct records, um, once a police misconduct investigation has reached a final status after our review and following any recommendation to reopen then our Communications with Bia and Coppa are public record and we have from time to time released them in response to foyer requests, um in order to kind of Live up to a transparency mandate around that work we have now taken to publishing more information including um involved members in the quarterly report in those summaries. Um during the first quarter of 20124. We processed through our centralized intake function more than 2,000 intakes 200149 intakes that's up somewhat from 1,853 intakes in the fourth quarter. That is an upward trend line, which we've seen continued. Um that from my perspective is good news. I I don't take that to mean that more things are going wrong in city government. I take that to mean that more people know who we are and where to find us when they have something to say about it. Um, we have made very, um, Very intentional efforts around awareness spreading of our office many of you and your colleagues have invited us to events in your ward. I appreciate all of those invitations. I often say we will go anywhere we're invited and some places. We're not to talk about our work and to listen to what people are concerned about. Um, in addition to those in-person appearances around the city we have um, Uh Public Safety announcement signs up in various locations. We have Billboards on roadsides in neighborhoods where we have not done as many in-person events as some other neighborhoods and we have signs awareness raising signs in English and Spanish on CTA buses and trains. Um, most of the it was the case in the first quarter as is usually the case that most of our intakes were received by email others by telephone online portal letter Etc. We are uh specifically empowered by the municipal code to self initiate intakes. We had 42 self-initiated intakes during the first quarter. So I'll turn to our misconduct investigations which we talked a little bit about uh in the first quarter. We reported 213 active misconduct investigations 92 of those had been opened more than 12 months. That number is down from 95 the quarter before. Um, we have substantially reduced this number this year old backlog of cases. Um, since the middle of last year. It's down about a third. Um a smaller number is obviously better here, uh deep in my former prosecutor bones. I know it to be true that investigations do not improve with age No 1 is well served by investigations which dragged on um, some investigations are complex and legal issues arise which sometimes stretch out the timeline of these investigations keeping this number as small as we sensibly can while ensuring that we are doing thorough and robust investigative work is is an ongoing area of focus. So in the first quarter of these 213 active investigations, uh, the subjects of those investigations of 167 of them were city employees in 19 investigating contractors subcontractors and persons seeking City contracts 3 into licenses 2 into appointed officials and 5 into people in entities falling into other categories, um among the people in entities falling into an other category. So not a city employer official or contractor. Um, my may include members of the public we have in recent quarters really for the first time begun to investigate members of the public for violations of the city's ethics ordinance. So the ethics ordinance prohibits City actors from accepting improper gifts. Uh and bribes it it also prohibits members of the public from offering those gifts and bribes. And so among the Innovations we have made to achieve more aggressive enforcement of the city's ethics rules is to pursue kind of the other side of those of those gift ban cases against members of the public. among the um among the information contained in our quarterly reports are deified summaries of our confidential administrative investigations. The municipal code says that the only vehicle um, for for our public statements about our confidential administrative misconduct investigations is the quarterly report in the form of these deified summaries. Um, we reported 11 sustain administrative misconduct investigations in the first quarter. Among those are the ones um, the ones outlined here we investigated. A sergeant in uh, the police department's Bureau of internal affairs. I should say then a sergeant subsequently promoted. Um, Who failed to competently investigate allegations that another Bia sergeant had committed sexual misconduct. Um the subject of our investigation not only failed to confidently investigate those allegations, but made false statements to us in the course of our investigation. Um in violation of the police department's rule against lying we recommended that that member be terminated the police department agreed to pursue that that outcome. We investigated uh, successfully a Department of Water Management employee for a fraudulent PPP loan. We've talked a little bit about our ongoing efforts around PPP loans, um for city employees. This is investigative work, which we have pursued both, um react in both a reactive and a proactive posture. So we have done reactive investigative work in response to tips. And complaints as we as we usually do we've also undertaken proactive data analysis to identify people under our jurisdiction who have received fraudulent PPP loans. The motivating principle here is that you do not get to both work for the government and defraud the government and that that obtaining a fraudulent government loan is disqualifying from the public service. Um, that is a a large undertaking on that proactive analysis. We have identified about a thousand loans issued to people under oig's jurisdiction many but not all of those bare some and disha of fraud. We are pursuing those in a number of directions some of them criminal criminally some of them administratively as we close individual administrative investigations. They will be reported out as was this 1 in in quarterly reports going forward. We reported on CPD members mishandling of a criminal investigation into another CPD member's conduct, um, which involved among other among other failures, um the completion of a false report. We reported on an aviation employees operation of an unlicensed business and obstruction of an oig investigation. That was as we discussed part of this effort to meaningfully enforce the rules, um against obstruction and interference with oig's investigative work. We investigated a CPD member who lied in court in Administrative Hearings under oath and submitted false documents in court proceedings, um, constituting perjury forgery and official misconduct and then the last investigation, um highlighted here. It was 1 into a department of streets and sanitation employee who um threatened to use their position as a city official as a department of streets and sanitation official to bring heat in a neighbor dispute. Um, this is very much the kind of conduct which I think about when we talk about contributions to mistrust and distrust in government that um, we we cannot have Chicagoans on the receiving end of threats from City officials threatening to bring to bear their City the authority of their City position, um for personal personal interests personal gain, Um our Public Safety section reported out in the first quarter. The publication of its 2024 outlook on police oversight and accountability. So, uh both the consent decree and the municipal code require that our Public Safety section focused on the oversight of the police department Coppa and the police board issue an annual plan outlining its proposed work for the year ahead. So in the 2024 Outlook our Public Safety section has identified Strategic priority areas kind of subject subject areas around which we organize our project work in public safety. Those are the police departments administrative managerial and operational competence how well it is run as a large and complex City Department, uh, the transparency and robustness of the police discipline and accountability system. I think that is that is vitally important to building public trust, um that we have a police accountability system in which both members of the public and members of the department have reason to be confident and then third and finally constitutional policing and civil rights. So we lay out in this document those strategic priority areas and we list potential topics for 2024 among them are those highlighted here cpd's missing persons investigations. The Staffing of sworn CPD members in administrative positions within the department the field training officer program copas organizational structure and functions, uh, and the the police department's inventory use and impact of military grade equipment. Our Public Safety section has 2 components 1 is our performance analysis unit which completes policy projects like the 1 we just discussed the ones we just discussed. The other component is our investigative analysis unit. These are the people devoted to that review of individual closed disciplinary investigations that we discussed that unit in the first quarter re examined 430 closed investigations conducted by the Bureau of internal affairs and Coppa and conducted in depth review of 38 of those we found 6. 6 Copa investigations and 1 Bia investigation to contain deficiencies materially affecting their outcome. That's the legal standard set out by the municipal code at which we are to recommend that those investigations be reopened. Um, we report out on a number of those recommendations to reopen and their outcomes in the quarterly report among those is 1 summarized here where we reviewed a Copa investigation into a taser discharge. Um, Copa found that the subject of that investigation the CPD member who had discharged their ta taser, um made a statement which was in copas estimation quote wholly refuted by the video evidence and Coppa tagged this identify this investigation to involve the failure to report misconduct. Nonetheless despite finding that the subject's statement was wholly refuted by the evidence and identifying the investigation as involving a failure to report misconduct. Copa did not conduct any analysis of whether cpd's rules 1421 and 22 had been violated rule 14 is The rule against false reports rules 21 and 22 are rules, uh against the failure to report misconduct. All 3 of those rules are ones, um, the enforcement of which we studied pursuant to consent decree. We found under enforcement of all of those rules. Um, and I highlight this particular investigation because I think it it suggests that there are persistent failures to aggressively enforce those rules Copa declined to reopen that investigation. Do they explain why? Um, we quote from their response in our report among other points that Copa raised here. It was that they had already recommended discipline for this subject and that ultimate recommendation would have been unlikely to change if they had investigated the implicated rules. um elsewhere in the office our audit and program review section which produced the department of buildings report which we discussed earlier this morning and out of our other work we issue from time to time audits follow-ups advisories and notifications. We have these various oversight vehicles, uh to communicate to City departments opportunities for improvement in the operation of city services. And so some of the ones that we addressed in the first quarter are here, um, we published a follow-up to uh, our original audit on the department of planning and developments administration of the neighborhood opportunity fund small grants program. I know this is a subject matter that was before the finance committee yesterday. Um, there were we this follow-up really evidenced some some substantial Improvement, uh in the operation of that program from the original audit There was another sort of good news story from my perspective in our follow-up to our oig's audit of dfss strategic Contracting program. We issued an advisory on the city's complaint-based approach to providing services. This was an interdepartmental observation around the fact that in in line with the Department of buildings report, which we discussed earlier. Um, there are inefficiencies and areas of ineffectiveness as a result of a an overreliance on complaints to provide city services where there are opportunities to provide more effective and more efficient services in a proactive way. Um, we issued a notification to the fire department with concerns around the solicitation of charitable contributions from Members specifically highlighting a risk that if we have supervisors soliciting contributions from subordinates, there's some inherent coercion there. Um, we issued a notification to the mayor's office and the Department of Law regarding the hiring and onboarding of unpaid city workers. This had to do with a circumstance, which arose um, where a uh, a an individual paid not by the city, but rather by um, a political campaign was working in City Hall conducting duties deeply involved in city government the city has both a contractor policy and a volunteer policy to ensure adequate controls around people who are working in city government, but are not city employees. We identified a number of Of failures to follow those policies in this product, uh in this notification to the mayor's office and the Law Department. We issued a notification to the Department of Water Management on the documentation of employee conduct and performance. This is a risk management problem that we identified where a dwm employee was terminated. for uh performance concerns, which had not been previously documented now, obviously, sometimes they performance concern will arise suddenly and a department needs to manage that in the short term as as a human resources concern nonetheless from a risk management perspective. Um, as well as a Performance Management perspective our recommendation here was that where there are long-standing and ongoing performance concerns that they be documented appropriately. We should a notification to the Department of Law on the release of an oig investigative report. So this is a matter that has been before the council before. Um, the the law as it stands says that only the Department of Law Only The Corporation Council may decide whether to publicly issue public put to publish in oig investigative report and that the Corporation Council may do so under a certain set of circumstances where the matter involves a felony involves a death and is of great public interest. Um, there was no IG report which uh for which there was a request for publication The Corporation Council declined to publish the report based on what we determined to be a misread of those of those circumstances laid out in the municipal code. Um, We recommended that the Department of Law reconsider, uh, and that report was ultimately released to the family of of the person whose death was an issue in the report. We issued a notification to what was then, uh assets and Information Services regarding employee email signature personalization. This this this is sounds like a sort of Deep In The Weeds technicality, but this really had to do with a situation in which uh City employee email signatures included religious references. Um, and the concern that we raised here was a sort of access to government First Amendment 1 around um ensuring that Chicagoans who did not share religious Persuasions expressed in those emails did not feel sort of excluded from uh city services. Uh, and then finally, we issued a notification to the Department of buildings around regarding a contractor with a Criminal conviction which which should have ended in this case result in the voiding of a general contractor's license. We conducted during the first quarter of 2024 as we do on an ongoing basis our work monitoring the city's employment actions. This is the post shackman decree work, which we conduct to ensure that the city continues to comply with the rules around hiring and promotion decisions across city city departments. Um, We there that is sort of ongoing monitoring work in addition to some Department focused work here during this quarter. We audited 6 hiring sequences across 6 City departments and monitored 16 sequences across 10 City departments. So, um departments. So, um chairman with that. I'm happy to answer any questions from you or from the committee. Thank you very much general questions from committee members. Um, I I did want to maybe make just a few observational comments 1, uh, very impressive to see uh an increase in the number of complaints but a decrease in the number of open cases, so wanted to commend you and your team on that work. I know that that's something that you've been focused on for several years now, um, since you got in that position, uh, 2 to uplift, uh, The Advisory specifically around um, our complaint-based approach, I think both in today's earlier portion of the hearing as well as a number of other items, I think dating back to 2015 your office has done a commendable job of identifying ways in which uh, more proactive approach can of course improve faith in government, but also at a cost savings. Um, so I think that a please continue to take that approach. Um, and then lastly I would encourage you as we uh, start to head into our budget cycle, um to consider sending a communication to city council that uplifts some of your more recent reports that have uh, a budgetary component. Potentially, uh, today's uh, uh first item I think is a good example, but obviously this is not a committee of the whole and even though we do our best to follow what's happening in this committee as well as other committees those sorts of reminders can be especially helpful. Um, so if there are any other items Beyond these reports that you would um, suggest we take a look at from a budget standpoint we welcome your office's input. Um, but I did want to uplift those. Um, if I can just respond very quickly to that chair and I appreciate that, um all around particularly, um, the note about budget implications of our work. That's a great idea. We um, I will say we have been for the first time in recent months we've been working with OBM to to do just that to identify, um work we have done and recommendations that have gone. Let's say unrealized for the moment, um where there are budget obstacles and OBM has reached out to ask if we can identify those in exactly the way that you suggest to sort of uh contribute. Contribute to a budget planning exercise. I had not thought to um include council members on those Communications, but I think that that's a great idea. We will look we will look to do that. Great. Thank you. Um, seeing no other questions or comments, um, and there being no further business before the committee. Can I get a motion to adjourn? Uh Alderman OSHA so moves all those inform in favor signify by saying I all those opposed and the opinion of the chairs that I've I have at the meeting is adjourned and thank you