because I think yeah it does.
don't need to write.
I don't.
Okay. Thanks.
That's
all
1 of my Physicians we went on his knees brand new. We had a
These are
They don't come in front of me. I'm concerned.
Pizza
get away with that.
1 people got to be on time.
to stop
let me just
the committee on police and fire
is it's called to order we'll have now have a roll call to
establish a quorum. Please note that a yes or present
response may be deemed as a yes vote for later items called
before the committee.
Vice chair Robinson
Alderman Hall
alderwoman Lee
Alderman Mitchell
Alderman Curtis
alderwoman Taylor Alderman Mosley alderwoman tabaris
Alderman Irving
Alderman Cardona
Alderman SLO next vados here
alderwoman Nugent
Alderman Napolitano
alderman niten kitson
Alderman Gardner alderwoman clay all the women Silverstein
all the woman to to president
we do have a quorum.
Give Clays and Gardner remote pursuant to rule 59 the
following aldermen have requested to appear by remote means
all the women clay.
Alderman Gardner alderwoman Janette Taylor
Can I get a motion?
Can I get a motion for the appearance of these Alderman by?
pursuant to rule 59 to appear by remote means
so moved by Alderman Curtis
all those in favor signify by saying I
all those opposed nay and opinion of the chair the eyes
have it.
All the woman tailor is present.
Alderman Gardner is present.
and
Alderman Gardner is present. Yes present chair.
alderwoman Taylor
president chair. Okay. Thank you at this time. We will
begin public comment.
Each of our speakers will be limited to 3 minutes. Our
first public speaker will be tan Sims Mr. Tan Sims.
All the women Clay's present as well.
Mr Sims
Um, so this the police and fire these last these last
months, um from March April May June, July.
July being the worst with this last, um event that took
place over the weekend 10.
How many people shot?
349 Maybe
um 17 people dead. The worst thing was the old child.
Being a 8 year old.
I think that was the worst event. They those mothers
suffered probably.
um 1 of the most horrific events
that's going to be accounted prayerfully for the next year
or so. We know things can turn up in Chicago, but
those women
and then there's 3 other little boys 5 and 7 year old.
And it's like how the when the when do we not get this in
our headlines or when how do how does this combat it? What
what happens? What do we do as a community? I just was
asking a detective mlan that
What do we do as a as a community to?
A bet this or stop it. What do we do or how does it stop?
I can't imagine another weekend or another I can't imagine
us as black Americans surviving for the next year and a
half if this continues on
And so to me, it's engineered or manufactured.
Because how every weekend now it's escalating it's not
going back. So it's we do have um
A protocol here in the city for crime stopping our guests
or what violence interruptions. We got different
organizations. I just had an officer upset with me because
he said oh, well, they putting all the money into these
organizations that told themselves as Prime Crime Stoppers
or whatnot, but
we pay $80,000 to policemen.
We pay 12% of the annual budget to police.
And so it's like how but I can't blame them that I feel
like it's a slap in the face and that every snailing yet
another attempt to prove that a black individual or a black
man cannot do a job. That's make him look as inept as
possible. That way we can just push him out.
But these black bodies that's fallen on.
Regular so every it's no way to say that the things that's
happening in Austin Englewood and then Rossland.
how
but it's a continuation. It's continuously happening.
So I can't just blame the police. We got to look at other
places.
The think tank right here.
So, how do we stop this? How do when do we get some um
proper policing?
And I know people arguing all well, they took the bales of
it's just a bunch of bull crap. How do we stop this? That's
Thank you, Mr. Sams our next speaker Miss Lawrence.
Miss Lawrence
Hello, it's everyone in here. Good morning.
Now start off with y'all hear. Good afternoon.
You need an ambulance.
When you get a chance, yeah, you're a licensed and
insurance.
Just 1 person in your car.
Okay, only 1 person in your car right now.
Okay.
You grab that for me? He said
when I first heard me said it was 1.
I got to the hospital.
So right there does he have insurance?
So cop allows a white man from the suburbs to come into the
City by drugs.
damage 3 Cars totaled
2 of those drivers were African-American black whatever you
want to reference them at and that's just fine to just go
away and nothing happens. Well, let me talk about something
real quick that talks on the stats 535,000 drivers during
2023 5% increase from 2022 the majority of 3.75 times that
was black drivers that were stopped of white D drivers and
Latinos were at 2.73% Let's talk about I dot real quick. I
dot reports also show that CPD traffic stops continue to
yield almost no Public Safety benefits in 2023 merely 0.41%
of traffic stops resulted in officers finding any
Contraband such as Weapons or drugs after they search a
driver's vehicle and officers were more likely to find
contrabands in vehicles driven by white people, even though
they were more likely to search cars driven by
black people. I got a whole bunch of D's defectiveness
dismissive discrepancy disgrace reputable, uh, or
discreditable denied denial of wrongdoing disallowed new
and further Evidence disclosure this change discrimination
and distrust bam.
I'm done. Thank you, ma'am.
Our next speaker is Doris Lewis.
Miss Lewis
sup
They go running. They go run Forrest run.
Good afternoon, Miss Lewis. Good afternoon. As I said
earlier earlier today is my civic responsibility to do what
I'm doing. I'm doing it for the future of our children.
We have spent over 400 million dollars for illegal
immigrants.
Who have come into this country?
When you take money from 1 Community a 1 race or whatever
you want to call them.
To the expense and the detriment of another Community. What
do you expect?
And you continue to take resources away from the black
community. The things that are going on in the black
community are going to happen any economists any social
scientists would tell you when people do not have the
resources to take care of themselves. They are going to
resort to whatever means necessary to take care of
themselves when you all pass ordinances and bills here and
policies here that will hurt the black community.
Then you're going to the crime is going to take place.
It's just common sense.
Common sense. I don't have a problem with people doing what
they're supposed to do for their people Mr. Lee. It's
supposed to stand up for her people those of you who speak
Spanish of Spanish descent. You're supposed to take care of
your people and black Alderman are supposed to take care of
their people as well. You cannot continue to sit down here
and vote for all this money for people who are not even
legal citizens at the expense of black people. So since
this is the fire and police committee 75% of the firemen of
white.
215% of uh, um, I'm sorry. Let me get this, uh, 75% of the
firemen are white 15% are Latino and 12% are black.
So we make up 29% of the population Hispanics 29% I think
White's 30% So to make this Fair.
We're saying we want you to take a look at this contract.
I'm going to give it to some of the ultimate take a look at
it and be fair our people need jobs. Our young people don't
have jobs. You're hiring everybody. But our young people
and then when they commit crime you want to call them
animals you call them all these ugly things.
But what do you expect?
I live through the 60s.
The 68 riot?
The things that you all are doing now, you're setting this
country up to go through the same things. Uh, Chicago is in
trouble America is in trouble. You are here you have a
responsibility to do the right thing. It's in your hands,
but you cannot continue to do this to us and expect to be
peace. It's not going to happen. So I hope that you would
think about this and I will thank you. Thank you, ma'am.
Yeah, Mr. Michael Young bae.
Thank you, John.
Good afternoon, sir.
Good afternoon.
once again, uh
Everybody got a talking point. It seemed like everybody
want to show.
And the show is coming at the expense.
of the children and the people
and our neighborhoods
our communities
reflect that
rundown empty locks banded buildings closed storefronts
that look like it shouldn't even be on the front of that
street because it's just so terrible.
I keep noticing that I know a lot of people ain't paying
attention to a lot of things, but I keep noticing how
For example this all the woman some children.
Got shot at I believe 1 died at the school of things like
that. Brandon Johnson there don't matter what time of night
it is that it happened. What time of day he's there?
Look at the nationality.
Same thing.
And other Wars Etc look at the nationality, but and these
other areas.
They don't get the same attention.
So that's why I say it's a show.
And I keep saying that man. They know what's going on. You
think they don't know what's going on. You think they ain't
read at the census. You think they just here for
decorations know they know what's going on.
It's the fact that they refused to do anything about these
issues.
Y'all refused to do anything about these issues.
the illegal guns that's coming on these streets because
when these children get arrested since y'all ain't paying
attention, let me ask you some questions for the public
because I speak to the public like I say y'all decorations
to me.
um
when the children get arrested for crime
For gun violence, you never hear nobody see on the news or
nothing. But where did he get that gun from? They don't
even put that 1 question out there where you get that let's
question them. See where this gun come from.
And see I ain't I got living experience that I know illegal
guns. It's been put on the streets.
And these people a lot of these people ain't saying nothing
about these things because they they look to make the
profit off of it.
They look it that it's big money in crime.
It's big money in misleading our people. It's big money and
not helping our people.
big money
Ain't no ain't no reason why a alderman even Brandon
Johnson. I'm giving I'm giving this into this study know
all you gotta do is put an ordinance in place for a
reparation. We know what slavery been
I want to do that. Thank you, Mr. Yung bae.
Miss Zoe Lee
too busy to listen to you.
Good afternoon, Miss Lee.
you know public corruption, um involves government
officials or employees authorities engaging in legal
activities such as bribery embezzlement fraud and misuse of
funds, right and it's criminal and this is committee on
police and and fire and um,
my issue is
I come down here and tell y'all I'm having a problem and it
is Criminal it and it's with.
Public officials and it's with government employees and
there's some people that's on this body that are exposed
officers. There's some people that and and you have to to,
you know report a crime and I'm coming down here for a
year.
with a crime and my thing is
What what is it going to have to take like like what what
is it going to have to take instead of you guys listening
to?
to some people that
Are liars like my thing is?
Maybe 1% of this body hasn't taken a bribe. Is that the
problem because you can't you really cannot.
Figure this out or go and and do what you're supposed to do
as a public servant.
And report that there's public corruption that that
literally a it's a legal eminent domain people are stealing
properties, but you guys keep passing out this Tif money in
these for blighted areas that are going into other
neighborhoods, like link what what why is Lincoln yards
about to get a billion dollars when the whole Englewood
needs that billion dollars like none of this makes any
sense to me, you know, and and my thing is
God is going to protect us regardless black people, you
know, and you know, we we prevailed against slavery Jim
Crow whatever this is because you so so many people are
worried about project 2025. We're living in Project hell,
you know this this project 2025 doesn't even scare me. You
know, I come from a very small town in New York called
Albany New York. So I know what a racist is and it's few on
this by
body, and I know that y'all fake do not care and y'all
aren't going to do anything and and you not going to hold
the black officials accountable because you like this.
Okay, you like that they can't help because a lot of them
have stolen money.
So I'm gonna do what I have to do like I document every
week while I'm coming down here because at this point it's
a documentary because I'm gonna win my case and I'm gonna
make sure miss Jessica wins her case and anybody else
properties that have been just been stolen through this.
Corruption that y'all continue to do since 1915 in Chicago
like this.
Thank you Miss Lee. This is Charles Spence.
chairman recognizes Alderman Ervin and Alderman Mitchell
for purposes of a quorum
Good afternoon, Mr. Spence. Good afternoon committee.
Thanks for the opportunity to speak.
On May 14th. I was here and I asked for an ordinance
authorizing procurement and use of surveillance drones for
each Police District in the city of Chicago.
I'm aware. There are headwinds in the council and the
mayor's office regarding an ordinance of that nature.
However, I am also aware of a recent Tailwind a 34 mile per
hour Tailwind originating in the Council on May 22nd.
Perhaps even more importantly I am also aware of a possible
easing of the headwind which occurred on July 8th when the
mayor himself stated.
This is enough.
I will not stand idly by.
We will not be passive In This Moment.
amen
I am here today asking this committee to author an
ordinance creating a pilot program for the Drone use by the
Chicago Police Department.
To find the length to find their uses name. The district's
involved established the metrics for data Gathering and
Analysis.
As I already said in May the faa.gov has a public safety
and law enforcement toolkit available detailing all these
things waivers for use over people waivers for use over
Vehicles waivers for use at night.
And designate the funding. Come on last year 225 million
was spent by state local governments and private entities
in this state on violence reduction programs.
Just last week. Another hundred million dollars was put in
the pot.
Now no doubt the programs receiving this money are needed
and do provide benefit. However, the reality is most
results from them require an extended time frame.
City residents need something now the police department
needs something now for a hundred thousand dollars almost
nothing in a 16.6 billion dollar budget the city can
purchase 5 drones and train The Operators to use them.
think of the potential to save lives to prevent crime to
apprehend criminals to reduce police overtime to reduce
canceled days off.
The need for drone surveillance use is here. It's
efficient. It's effective. It's affordable. The time for
them is now.
Committee, please.
Hold the mayor to his word. Yes author and ordinance
creating a pilot program for drone use by the Chicago
Police Department.
Thank you. Thank you, Mrs. Spence our next speaker Miss
Jessica Jackson.
Miss Jackson
Good afternoon.
I'm speaking um specifically to all demand talifero.
Alderwoman tabaris. I hope I'm saying her name right and
Alderman naps.
The rest of you I'm not talking to you because I already
know you're not listening.
So what I have here is a report.
Of hate crimes by kurupt Cook County public officials and
it's a hate crime that I'm proposing as it pertains to
black people's properties getting taken.
And it and the fact that that's a hate crime that a group
could be targeted.
For our properties to be taken in order to keep us in a
constant state of impoverishment.
That's hard.
intentional harm with an evil motive
And I know that everybody understands it because it's been
going on for centuries for decades.
And so I'm reporting this as a hate crime and I'm bringing
it to you. Uh all the metallic Fair because you are over
the police and safety. And so I was told by um, Miss Andre
de a n d r a d e
That I had to start with actually filing a police report. So
I sent this email to superintendent Snelling on July 1st
2024 after um, alderwoman Rosanna, um Sanchez did her human
relations committee and what she did
Is block it?
And then gather up the truths of her little click in here.
To keep them from listening to it. She's gonna try to block
it.
And she has enough evil people in here and enough racist
people in here to help her do it and what's crazy is after
I tried to introduce this that day and it was a Jewish guy
there a young Jewish guy had on this little uh hat and he
came after me and Miss Lewis after the meeting.
And he said I can't believe what I just saw.
And we like what you talking about. He said the fact that
you all could get up there and talk about your issues and
they went right on to the next conversation. They start
talking about swash 6 and Ziploc bags and all that that
they had to tend to.
But they are seriously ignoring you all they act like you
all are invisible. He said and I'm hurt he said because I
know that the only reason why the Jewish Community has
anything in America it's because of what black people did.
He said and I'm sorry and I'm going to meet with Rosana
Rodriguez because she's my ultimate and I'm gonna talk to
her about this and the other group came down here and told
us the same thing. So I'mma bring this to you talifero
ultimate we could take it first cuz I don't deal with
ignorance. Okay. Thank you. Miss Jackson. Well, Mr. George
Blake Moore.
All right.
That the truth be heard. Good afternoon, Mr. Blakemore.
It's not a good afternoon. Number 1 you was late number 2
you've been late. I'm not gonna have the door time is
money. We have these young people here. They interns I'm
gonna educate you young people about this body.
When you get your new jobs, uh, your summer job is a time
element. You have to be on time and you got to do your job
these people here are never on time.
And they do not serve the interests of the public they serve
their own selfish interests and the Democratic machine.
It's something evil. Here is something corrupt 1 of the
most corrupt cities in America is a city of Chicago. What
was the criteria for putting Chicago at number 1 is elected
officials have been sentenced jail sentence.
many of them
The ultimate the commissioner so so this body is corrupt.
I'm talking to my young people. It's corrupt and and the
most corrupt city.
What's unique about Chicago is a 1 party system a
Democratic Party.
All the same party and you do not vote for these people.
You these people are slated by the machine and then you
vote for who they say. You don't vote for them. You don't
voted for 1 of them. They were slated by evil machine a
corrupt machine worse than coming this chapter of Russia.
Evil place. This is why I have this red hat on. I know Trump
might be a racist might might be too but I'm leaving 1
Plantation going to another on my way to Freedom land.
The freedom land Trump need to come here a monthly party
system. You have many different parties many ideals these
people 69. Oh, you said 69 I sure did licking and kissing
each other's behalf. Not in the interest of the public. So
it's something wrong here. And when I knock on the door
open the door open the door, but you got when these minutes
come then you go. Tell me Mr. Blakemore your time is up
your time been up and the reason you don't roll it out. You
don't follow them in and you don't have power to pull them
out. That's right. Corrupt Fraud and Abuse is right here.
Yeah right here looking at you looking at you. Oh, just
wait till it get to zero. They're going to say Mr.
Blakemore. They pick your time is up. They got a time for
me and a time for them. They quick by here whenever they
want and come when they
And leave whenever they want. They don't have a Corona and
we got to wait that thing.
Thank you, Mr. Blakemore.
Miss Teresa Hughes
You have people.
laughing
which 1 of these all love with 1 of my last missed.
alderman.
For purposes of a quorum. Thank you, Miss. Thank you, Miss.
Yes come shut again. I guess you guys can do whatever you
want. I guess you know you you hold on Miss. Hold on.
Of all we wouldn't be down here if you all just hold on,
Miss.
You address the chair. Don't dress us.
Go ahead, Miss. Okay, good. He provoked this thing Mr. Yung
Bae, please. Let's let's Miss Hughes. Give Miss Hughes a
respect to speak.
Thank you. Good good afternoon. Good afternoon, Miss Mr.
Chairman and good afternoon Alderman. My name is Teresa TJ
Hughes. And this is my first time attending this uh
committee. Uh, it has been very enlightening. I've been
sitting back there listening to things that have been said
and the point that I would like to address is I am a
senior. I live in the Third Ward and we have issues with
people jumping on the seniors when they get their little
checks, they they they are fearful, um to go to the grocery
store which is right across the street Mariano's to um, you
know, do their shopping and stuff. So I would like to know
if we brought this to Pat's attention, um, and she has been
sending out patrols, you know to come around every now and
then to check on us. Um, but I'd like to know if there's
any way that you can the police department can do some type
of
internship or uh
programs so that you can train young people who might want
to get into the police to you know, get give them some kind
of a training program where you can pay them a siphon or
something to just go around in their neighborhood help the
people go across the streets to go to the grocery store and
get back home safely.
So that that's my point for this committee. This is my first
time ever attending and I appreciate you listening to me.
At this point. Thank you Miss Hughes.
uh that concludes our public speaking, uh pursuant to rule
59 Alderman Mosley has requested, uh to appear by remote
means can I get a motion to allow before the appearance of
Al Alderman Mosley?
So moved by all the women nent.
all of those in favor say I
all of those opposed say nay
and the opinion of the chair the eyes have it. Um Alderman
Mosley. Are you present with us?
President Mr. Chair. Thank you, sir.
Each of you should have received by email on in June of
2024 a copy of the rule 45 report for a meeting that was
conducted on June 11 2024. Are there any questions or
comments about the rule 45 report?
There being no questions or comments. Can I get a motion
for the passage of the rule 45 report?
So moved by ottoman cordona, all of those in favor. Say I
all of those opposed say nay
any other opinion of the chair the eyes have it the roof 45
report is
approved
pursuant to rule 59 Alderman Robertson of Vice chair
Robinson has requested to appear by remote means uh, can I
get a motion to entertain? Um Alderman Robinson's
appearance by the rule 59. So moved by Alderman Curtis.
all those in favor say I
I I all those opposed say nay any opinion of the chairs the
eyes have it.
Alderman Robinson, are you with us today?
Alderman Robinson
All right.
There's 1 item before the committee today item number 82024
D 9254 if I could ask. I'm on hold. No, no for real. Please
come forward.
Item 2024 9254 is appointment of Angel Navaro to the
community commission for Public Safety and accountability.
Um, I'd also like to recognize the executive director of
um, ccpsa, um for joining us today.
Did you should have received the resume of Mr. Navaro as
well as a um?
a brief, I believe it is an agreement between himself and
uh
Older woman Lenny Mana hoppenworth, um, each of you should
have received it by email.
Before we go into public comments. I'd like to give Mr.
Navaro an offer a brief opportunity for opening statement.
Mr. Navaro, thanks for joining us.
Okay this works.
Chair Vice chair and members of the committee on police and
fire. My name is Anil Ruben Navaro and I am grateful
honored and humbled to stand before you today or sitting as
an appointee for the ccpsa as a young chicagoan. I'm deeply
committed to our communities welfare. This role is just not
a position to me. It is a profound responsibility to ensure
that our city remains a safe just and vibrant place for all
its residents. Especially our future the youth
I want to start expressing my sincere gratitude for your
time and attention today.
This process has been immensely educational for me and I'm
committed to learning and growing through this experience
with you all.
Public Safety and accountability is important to me and I'm
the ca I'm dedicated to enhancing our community's trust and
safety through clear independent and accountable
leadership.
Transparency and accountability are not just principles I
support.
Their standards that I strive to live by.
I understand that some members expressed concerns regarding
my current role as director of Neighborhood Services and
public safety for the 40th Ward and how that could
intersect with my duties as commissioner.
I just want to clarify that I have always been intended to
completely open and open about my role and
responsibilities.
There was never any intention to withhold information from
this community or from the public.
I also was open during my interview with the nominating
committee and my written application with the ccpsa.
In response to your feedback. I proactively collaborated
with older woman manah hoppenworth and others to draft the
detailed work agreement ensuring that there's no conflict
between my duties at the 48th Ward and the
responsibilities. I hope to undertake as commissioner.
This agreement is crafted to separate my activities
redirect certain duties and establish clear boundaries
ensuring I serve without conflict.
Disagreement was sent to the committee last week and I feel
that the agreement was significant.
I'm here today in open book ready to discuss any aspect of
the agreement or my role in depth to address any concerns
you might have.
My goal is to Simply Foster a dialogue that helps us move
forward together in the spirit of mutual respect and shared
commitment to the betterment of our city.
I hope to speak today about the work. I'm excited to do
such as meet with our young officers address Wellness
concerns and figure out ways to optimize communication
between District counselors and commanders in their
districts.
In conclusion, I'm eager to bring my perspective as as a
young dedicated public servant to this Commission.
I am an enthusiastic about the opportunity to serve our
great City and for young people ensuring voices and
concerns are represented in discussions on public safety.
Thank you again for considering my appointment. I'm more
than willing to and answer any and all questions you may
have.
Thank you Alan. Um, do we have someone from law here?
Can you please come forward I and I before we go into
question and comments. I I want to um
um Express that you know, when you appear before us and be
let me first say I certainly appreciate um the conversation
that you and I have had um, and I certainly appreciate your
commitment to serving the wanted to serve on the community
commission. Um, they do some very important work. Um,
however, the last time you were before the committee I
believe was in May, um, I did express some concerns, um as
it relates to um to to to things predominantly, um,
conflict of interest number 1
and then the second 1 um was uh, secondary employment, uh
while um in the in employment of the 48th Ward and um, I've
had some opportunities to speak uh with the law law
department and I've spoken with you about it, and I know
I've spoken to your um, your Alderman as well on server
occasions, um, but I wanted to um law to address, uh, my
concern my main concern uh with and uh, and for matters of
public record, uh, the concern of of um, working and and
having a stipend, uh income um and receiving an automatic
income at the same time.
And and so if I can um get the opinion if I could get the
opinion of um of the Law Department as you've explained it
to me to help explain it to this committee on why that does
not. Um,
To some degree. Um
Go online with what I believe have been uh, or to be double
dipping, uh, in other words earning additional and
secondary income, um, while employed with the city at the
same time and and certainly I believe that
um the way that this was set up, um would lead and open a
can of worms for not just uh this particular, um appointee,
but the entire city,
uh, especially if someone needed to do some work outside of
their their um,
current employment
and to say that I can now punch out.
And I should be allowed to punch out and go do this work
and earn some additional dollars and then punch back in.
How does that not create a problem, uh for the city to
allow someone to be able to do that. Um because I I
certainly still believe that if we pass this appointee my
my employees or anybody's employees and certainly the
employees across the entire city. I would argue that they
should be able to punch out. Uh, go do a real estate
closing. They'll go do an insurance deal or go do something
else. I mean, they're they're on a salary and be allowed to
punch back in. Um, so clear my mind on that and how we
allow uh this to move forward. Um,
and how it would relate to other city employees.
In every department and thank you for appearing I appreciate
it. So if you could state your name with the record and
record and then answer that, I'd appreciate it. Yes. Uh, my
name is Christopher Cole. I'm a system Corporation Council
with the Department of Law good afternoon chairman and
members of the committee. Uh, thank you for giving me the
opportunity to speak.
Uh, so broadly speaking. The department of law has not
identified any legal prohibitions on uh, this nominee being
appointed to ccpsa while also uh retaining his position in
the 4084 office. I'd like to acknowledge that you know,
there may be certain logistical and operational concerns,
uh, that the nominee will need to address, uh, as he
carries his work forward. Should you choose to uh, uh
recommend his appointment.
Specifically an appointee must refrain from participating
in commission matters that directly relate to or impact
their employment duties in this case with the 48th Ward
additionally appointees are prohibited from using uh from
unauthorized use of city property resources and time that
are allocated for in this case aldermanic employment for
their uh, commission related duties and vice versa. So they
can't use their commission related resources for their
older manic duties.
Um, I'd also like to flag that the commission has adopted
bylaws that state that the commission may recommend to the
city council that uh, a commissioner be removed for uh, the
following reasons among others 1 is the failure to disclose
a conflict of interest or failure to make reasonable
efforts to evaluate a potential conflict of interest
additionally, uh violation of confidentiality standards,
which are set forth in the bylaws, um are also a just cause
for termination
Um to more directly address your concern about double
dipping. Um, there is not a legal prohibition on double
dipping. Uh, the stipend that is provided for in the uh,
ordinance was adopted by the city council. Uh, the
appointee would be entitled to that siphoned, um with the
opportunity to decline it. Um, if he so chose, um, the
governmental ethics ordinance has Provisions related to
secondary employment. Um, I'm happy through the chair to
provide, uh, the board of Ethics, uh, kind of simple
English guide on, uh, those rules I would say in terms of
disappointment the uh, you know, relevant, uh portions of
that have to do deal with conflict of interest. So these
would be scenarios, uh, specifically related to financial
interests, which I I think kind of captures some of the
scenarios that uh,
you were raising regarding the slippery slope, uh, for
example, if uh,
Uh matter was coming up through the 48th Ward that would
raise the stipend via ordinance. Uh, uh, uh, the nominee
could not participate in that decision if he becomes a
member of ccpsa more generally speaking, um City, uh
employees cannot represent, um outside parties in
uh
before the city so if uh, someone has secondary employment,
they cannot represent their employee before, uh,
The city council before a board of the city Etc. Um
But I'll just say it as a general matter again, there is
not um a Prohibition on secondary employment at this time.
And that's Citywide.
Yes, sir. Um, well first of all for departmental employees,
they have to receive approval from their department head.
But can the city.
Oh now can a city department head. Um, given this case
precedent right here can a department head now be
obligated.
Can anyone be obligated given this precedent, um to allow
secondary employment during that time during that Workforce
for example, any of us that are sitting here.
Um giving this framework that we are setting up um today.
If 1 of our employees said I want to punch out to go do
something else.
And then be able to come back and punch back in.
Setting this precedent today. Would they be will they have
a valid claim in the Circuit Court?
To say that it was allowed for this person.
But I was told I cannot do it.
I don't believe it creates an obligation. Tell me why not?
I think uh
I'll tell me what you know.
um
Appreciate it chairman. Um
Tell me why and I want to know I want to know what you
know, not what you think because ultimately I'm going to be
asked the same question as my colleagues will be as the
same question should 1 of their employees. I want to come
to them and say Waldman, I I I got to take on this because
I my son's in college. I need to take care of his tuition
and I need to be able to make some additional income now.
I'll only punch out for 2 hours a day, but I will punch
back in and work those 2 hours at the end of the day.
Will he be allowed to do that if we set this precedent?
I think if you as tell me what you know apologies, I
Cannot say for sure any specific fact pattern without you
know fully being able to delve in to uh, the circumstances.
I also can't speak to uh, you know, what a court would
determine but it is my belief that as um, the supervising
authority over your employees under the city's Personnel
rules. And again the uh, the Citywide ethics code. Um, that
is generally applicable. Uh,
it would Grant the ability to uh authorized that secondary
employment, but it would not obligate you to do that. If
you do not believe that uh,
this person would be able to you know, maintain a full-time
employment while also uh having a secondary job.
Thank you.
Any other questions or comments from any members on the
committee?
all the women
thank you. We've gone back and forth on this 1 for some
time. Um, I've had several conversations with this
candidate and I think you're incredibly talented incredibly
smart. Um, however,
Public Safety is a critical component in every aldermanic
office. And even if we as Alderman take a particular topic
off of our employees docket, they still go out in the
community and represent us whether it's at
Block parties Community meetings chamber meetings and
constituents. They don't know what our staff members are
delegated to do or not do and they're going to ask all
staffers about particular issues and quite frankly Public
Safety is on there. And um, I just still believe that this
presents a conflict in this capacity and therefore I will
not be supporting this Nom this candidate. Thank you
chairman.
Thanks.
Any other committee members all the women lie?
Thank you chairman. Um.
In a on haul I appreciate you being here. This is like you
and I spoke this morning. Um and 1 of the things that I
said to you was, you know, I don't question at all your
commitment, um to pursuing this role. Um, no 1 would put
yourself through what you've gone through over the last
couple of months if you weren't committed. So, uh, your
your commitment is not something I questioned at all. Um, I
I expressed to you some of the same concerns that I had and
I I did this previously in committee, uh, which is with the
secondary, um employment as well as the the potential
conflict of interest. So I know that you've uh, you've
worked together with alderwoman Mana hoppenworth on a on an
agreement for workplace rules. Um, so I'm going to ask you
a few questions just regarding this. Um, can you talk to us
give us a detailed description of what your current roles
and responsibilities are as a staffer as it relates to
Public Safety today.
sure, so I am the official liaison of the office, um for the
48th Ward office for um, all matters related to Public
Safety including strategy or any Communications that I need
to have with commanders in regards to issues going on the
neighborhood or at the directives of the older woman and
then my job also, um is coordinating community events and
making sure that I'm connecting um neighbors to resources
to our police resources. So caps Copa, whatever that may
be. Um, that's just a a small snippet of it.
Can you um elaborate on the circumstances under which you
feel like you would recuse yourself from a discussion or a
decision? I know that's 1 of the things that is um outlined
in the work agreement. So if a constituent walked in and
said, I have an issue with an officer. I I wouldn't be able
to be part of that conversation I would
Direct the constituent to fill out our intake form and then
pass that along. Um, but I would not handle that that
matter directly with the department or Coppa or for
example, if the Ottawa woman wanted me to speak about
Patrol strategy, um in regards to Citywide resources, I I
wouldn't be able to advise or I won't advise on that if I
assume the position of commissioner
okay, and then um
what specific steps will you take to ensure that all the
recusal instances are transparent and properly recorded?
Yeah, so if if an instance comes up where I have to um
consult with Board of Ethics or any other body, I I would
document that with the proper folks, uh, whether that's
Board of Ethics or anybody else. Um, and as I said before
as stated in the work agreement, there's significant
cutbacks as to what I would be able to do in my
responsibility.
I understand, um that things come up in the neighborhood,
but I've worked for 6 other elected officials and I know
how to deviate responsibilities and and services and titles
to the correct people in the office.
Um, thank you for that. And what do you think you can do to
ensure that you're maintaining the confidentiality of
information in both worlds?
Yeah, so I wouldn't be as a ward employee if I assume the
position of commissioner, I wouldn't be an area area wide
meetings. I wouldn't be in Citywide Public Safety meetings,
um things of that nature and and I have time sheets as well
that I will keep my work systems will be completely
separate. So I I don't anticipate any overlap, um in terms
of that.
Great. Um and what steps will you take to ensure that
community members and stakeholders clearly understand the
the Dual roles that you're playing and you know when you're
wearing witch hat
Yes, so I would clearly state if if I'm working in the
capacity of the 48th Ward. I'm working in the capacity of
the 48th Ward and that's how I State myself all the time
even before this. Um, so I would I would make it clear that
I'm not representing if if the matter at hand, let's say we
were at a community meeting in the matter at hand had
something to do with my responsibilities as commissioner. I
I wouldn't participate in that and and I would make myself
clear that I'm representing the old woman. I I I have that
capacity and I have that experience and knowledge to
distinguish, um those incidents
And how when you decided to apply for this role?
What what inspired your application and you know, what of
your experience in the aldermanic office in any capacity?
Because you said you worked for other elected officials,
but I'm also thinking of you know, what experiences
specifically in the 48th word currently. Um,
May have influenced your your wanting to take on this
additional role.
It's not just this job. I mean it's been previous jobs.
I've had my own personal experiences with the police as a
young man. So
It could be said that because of my role I gained interest
but to be honest with you, it's interested. I've been
gaining my entire life.
Because I think it it could also be said that.
You playing the the role of director including of Public
Safety in the ward?
Makes you an even better candidate for this position. Um,
and and I think you could make that argument honestly, uh,
I'm still I'm still a little troubled with the the conflict
of interest in the secondary, um piece of this so question
for the Law Department. Um, I didn't want to ignore you
Chris. So I'm gonna make sure we're paying attention to you
too here. Um,
And and it's picking up on some of what the the Chairman's
already, uh alluded to um, are are we opening ourselves up
to any like potential future litigation in terms of
questions about whether or not um other city employees or
aldermanic staff can take on other, you know paid stipend
type roles, um, or uh other employment while while fully
employed by the city of Chicago
So in the interest of full disclosure, I am not um on our
employment litigation team and I'm not a labor law expert.
I do know that the Department of Law, uh, thoroughly
reviewed this potential appointment and did not identify,
um, significant legal risk whether that is uh litigation or
otherwise
Um and moving this appointment forward.
and so is it the opinion of the the Law Department then
that this is a moving forward with the appointment is the
the lowest risk for the city at the end of the day.
I think I would say having the appointment go to a vote.
Um, it is up to the body to decide whether to actually uh
recommend appointment of the member or not, um regardless
of whether which way that vote goes, uh, we do not view
that there being a significant risk with the body, uh,
taking that vote and if the vote is ultimately to uh
appoint this, uh nominee, uh, we do not believe that there
will be uh,
a legal consequence consequence outside of uh
Him filling this role and do we know in chairman? This
might be for you are there previously we talked about know
this was a this was a blind spot for all of us this
ordinance. We didn't pick this up in the ordinance until
after anal was a was a a candidate for this and I think
once we once we realize that we might have some issues
there was some conversation about potentially changes to
the ordinance, um in relation to the appointment. Do we
have any movement on that currently, um and speaking with
Corporation Council, um, they will be amending the ccpsa
ordinance. Um, I think as a direct result of um anhile to
come in before us, uh, there was
Pushed to amend the bylaws, um in within the ccpsa and I
believe those have been voted on um and are currently
enacted. Uh, but also, uh Corporation Council has stated
that there would be a need to amend the ccpsa ordinance to
reflect, uh any future.
Um candidates that come before us will either have to
waive. Um, the they would have to waive the stipend or
Uh not take the position or leave their current position
with the city.
um, and when I avoid when I voice concern about that
um, and my concern was simply, uh,
if we know of a possible wrong.
And we are allowing that wrong to go through and changing
the ordinance after the fact, um, does that make us
complicit and what we believe to be wrong?
And so um, but as I as I understand it now, um, there is a
draft, um that will um present will be presented before
this committee and the council, um, that will restrict um
that income uh while in the employment of the city
So that's what I've been informed of and uh, I don't know
what stages in though. Okay, so we don't know the timing of
when that's going to be introduced at this point. No, we
don't okay, um, just a couple more questions if it's okay
chairman, um,
And this is for law or for whoever can answer it. Um
the work agreement who was that who was involved in putting
that together was the Law Department consulted and that's
sort of the Employment Group in particular.
I was not personally involved, uh in drafting the uh work
agreement. I do know that the Law Department agrees with
the determinations, you know, specifically related to uh,
the application of the ethics code that um are represented
in the agreement. But uh, I don't know if the nominee has
more information or our representatives from uh, the ccpsa
I wasn't a part of conversations with Corp counsel. Um, so
this is this agreement was made, um with the order woman's
office ccpsa, um myself and I believe law took a look at
it, but I'm not sure of the specifics of of what okay.
um
I know at the time we spoke or I know throughout the
conversation you were I've heard through other people too
that you would be open to some additional feedback on this.
Um, and I'd be happy to share some of this with you just in
terms of I think.
Should this pass you'll be setting a really big precedent.
Um, and I think it um, it's going to be really important
that uh,
we take every additional precaution necessary to ensure
that the public understands that there's not a con that you
know, you're doing everything that you can to not have
there be a a conflict. Um, you know, I I'm still rather
torn about uh, still rather torn about this. Um, but as I
said to you before I think it's uh,
I think you are tremendous candidate. Um, and I'm sorry
that we're in this position at this time. Um,
you know, I would have hoped to be able to see the the
amendments to the um to the ordinance, uh before taking
this vote, but I think for now, um, I'm I'm done with my
questioning.
Point of information Auto Curtis. Okay. So so so what are
you saying sure that if if he takes uh on this role?
You have to change the ordinance.
If he takes the role on.
No currently, um currently according to the law Department.
Um as I've spoken spoken with him, um, he can take the
role, um and be paid a stipend.
While at the same time working, um as an employee in an
automatic office and receiving a salary.
And so the amendment or the uh, amending the ordinance
anyone that is hired after that ordinance has been voted on
and approved would not be able to do so, but on Hill is not
the only 1, um that this affects. Um, he's probably the
only 1 that that's affected because he is being appointed,
but from what I understand and I don't know how many or or
whom
Um, we do have folks that have been elected.
As District councils that work in automatic offices. Um, I
I've not had that information confirmed. But what I've been
told is there are electives that are are currently um
serving in the automatic offices as well as on the district
council and speaking to the Corporation Council about that
as well.
Um, the amendment to the ordinance would affect them also,
uh will not affect them. But affect any future
in fact any future in uh person that's elected or appointed
that they would have to wave, um their stipend to do. So,
uh and the stipend for a ccpsa commissioner. Um is 1,000 a
month in the stipend for the district council is 500. So
obviously they see
Something wrong with it. Um, and that's why I was asking
Chris. What does he know for sure. They see something wrong
with it because they believe there's a need to change the
ordinance to make sure that his weight. Um, but that's
what's going on right now. Uh, they are looking to amend it
so that um any future like for example, if an H were to
serve um under this, um current um status of the ordinance
in the future when once it been amended he would not be
able to
um have a stipend or he would have to leave uh his
automatic office not his automatic office, but the
automatic office in which he works. So he can't he wouldn't
not be able to in the future after this ordinance. If it in
fact passes, he would not be able to do both neither would
District councils. So um, but there is a current revision,
uh being being uh drafted.
Well that was point of information. We have any other
questions all the woman lie.
all the all the meno followed by Alderman Irving
Alderman deposit the politano
Thank you chairman. Um.
to be honest, I
started off having really no issue with this appointment. I
think it's pretty awesome. You got such a a young
enthusiastic person that's interested in making the city a
little bit better A Little Bit Stronger and and getting
behind um how things have been done in the past and how we
can make them better in the future. The only thing that
really kind of concerns me is, you know, the conversation
part of its my ignorance not looking into it a little bit
more and maybe we can answer this now when we're talking as
far as answering questions about Public Safety, um,
What what does that mean? Like?
if somebody calls into the office or if you run into
anybody at a at a forum that asks you anything about Public
Safety, uh in your prospective Ward or um,
On behalf of the entire city of Chicago. What does that
mean? You're not allowed to answer anything like that.
So, uh, I believe you're referring to the the language in
the work agreement. Is that right? Um,
I don't know if I can speak to you know, the exact Contours
of what that may or may not include I'll say as a as a
general matter. Um, I don't think there's um, you know
inherent conflict between um,
Older manic Public Safety work and uh the work of the
commission.
um
I
frankly would probably defer to the nominee and and the uh
Alder person, um themselves regarding, uh, kind of what
they plan to do to uh to limit, uh his role in in that type
of work.
What I would say to that point point of information before
um, just you know complete disclosure on it. We did talk to
the board of Ethics as well. Um, and um and speaking with
them in detail there. They believed that there would not be
a conflict of interest, um in his current role, um in all
the women now hopping worse, um, um automatic office and
his role in C with ccpsa, so they did um, um say that they
would not be a conflict of interest, um in their opinion
and so they referred me to uh,
the Inspector General I spoke with the Inspector General,
um at length, um, and it doesn't necessarily fall in her
wheelhouse unless there's a violation. Uh, and so, uh, she
referred me the law. Um now she did say that there is an
ordinance that prohibits. Um, uh, that would restrict or I
shouldn't say ordinance but a city rule that prohibits, um
secondary income. That's how the secondary income thing
came up with me. Uh, and so if that if that rule is is
violated then she and her office rather would get involved.
But um, ethics said they didn't see it as
Is a conflict of interest.
And and I I just I I would love to hear from you too, but
just quick question because I'm sorry this gets gets foggy
as we go is is there a consequence?
like because everything that we're speaking about here is
in the I think or I'm not sure or possibly or
You know kind of we'll see as we go along. Um, is there a
possible consequence is there a
possible lawsuit that can be
created because of this because I not to be you know wrong
about this but I I keep getting the you know, we think that
there is no issue and so much to the point where you kind
of alluded to.
If we vote on this today, it's on you guys because you
voted for to put him in this position, which I think I'm
for you in this position, but it's kind of put on us that
if you vote for today, um, it's kind of on you the
consequences later and you voted for it your name's on it.
And if something bad happens in in the future, we'll go
back and we're changing. We're amending things. But why
aren't we?
If everything's scrutinized down here, why aren't we putting
everything from A to Z in place saying this is what can
happen. This is not what's going to happen. He's good to
go. Let's get him in this position compared to we'll deal
with it in the future because I've brought stuff on the
floor and have been putting my spot constant constantly
saying that there's consequences that could be uh paid for
your actions and we're kind of answering this in the I
think or I'm not sure or we don't see any problems. How
about we just
codify that clarify it get it rocking and rolling before we
put him in a bad situation.
yeah, if I could just uh speak to uh have 2 points here 1
is actually following up on Alderman Curtis's point of
information regarding the um, the ordinance proposal of a
chairman alluded to uh, we do not believe that there is um,
any, uh, that that that making that amendment is necessary
to move forward this appointment or at all. It is
ultimately a policy call.
Um that we would of course defer to uh, the city council
because Department of Law does not uh set forth policy.
Now regarding the uh Consequence the only consequence that
the ordinance contemplates would be removal by the city
council. Um, and that's true for any um, you know level now
fees since that a commissioner undertakes.
And it would be to remove him by the city council because
there's a consequence.
As commissioner. Yes, so any commissioner that violates?
Um, the uh, Municipal Code would be subject to uh,
potential removal by the city council and what I'm asking
is in his capacity.
Uh in the Alderman's office and in this new position if he
accidentally or crosses those lines probably most 99.9% not
intentionally. There's a consequence that could lead to his
removal because of this, correct.
Yes, ultimately, it would be I would put him in that
situation in the hands of the the body. Um, so the process
how that that's established is that ccpsa can make a
recommendation that 1 of its members violated the I get it
I get it. I I'm I'm not against him getting in this
position. I'm more against us putting a young enthusiastic
person that wants to make a difference in this city in a
situation where if he makes 1 mistake the wrong way and
it's documented that we're going to sit in our body in a
and vote to have him removed when we can probably
Figure out how to make this better for him or anyone in the
future. Um, I don't think that's fair to him. Um, I don't
think that's fair to us to have to vote on that today and
and put our names on it and put this young gentleman, uh in
a situation that can hurt maybe his future as
On a resume for that reason I'm with you thousand percent
if we find a different way to do this, I'll vote for you.
But for that reason I'm gonna have to vote. No, I can't I
got kids. I got people that family that I hope are part of
the city make it better like you want to do. I can't put
you in a bad situation. If someone can come to me and say
Aunt here it is we're done. It's all it's all clear. I'll
vote for it. I'll vote for it put you in this position
quicker than anybody but as of right now, I can't put my
name on something like that today.
Sorry, sorry for that Alderman Ervin. Thank you. Alderman
to Polo alderman.
Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh, I I really just
have like 1 question. Um, you accepting this appointment
kind of puts you in the realm, uh, you know, at this point,
we'll become a public official. Um,
how do you or
Can you uh your service to the ccpsa versus a service to to
the ward? Ugh? I am concerned that.
The war becomes priority over your service to the ccpsa.
And how do you navigate that? And how do you because you
ultimately a representing the city and its totality not the
interest of the your employer which is kind of 1 and the
same but that's a whole other conversation, but that's my
concern like you know, if
how do you separate that and how do you give your
full uh
Even though it's part-time but your attention.
to that, uh while also having to balance the act of working
for an alderman, which is not an easy job.
I agree with you. It isn't an easy job. Um, however, I
think that with what I have in the work agreement keeping
track of my hours and making sure that I am being cognizant
of when and where work happens. I think is how I would
navigate that it I can't really
I I would say that the way that I navigate that is just
make sure that I'm clear when I'm working for the 48th Ward
and for me.
Everything truly is a priority for the city. So I would say
that I would just have to balance my time very well and
then follow the work agreement and keep my hours separate
and ensure that um, whatever comes up I if there's conflict
or if there's a concern I bring it up to the right people.
So if there is a conflict or is it concern what takes
precedence?
I think what takes precedent is the importance of of
wanting to get done at that moment. So if there's a
conflict I will I will call that out and then I will follow
the procedures on the work agreement. So go speak to board
of Ethics or anything of that nature. So how does a I mean
just a hypothetical how does a resident of mine come to
you? And you say hey, I I can't do that because I'm working
for the alderman. How did how do you think that plays out?
Well, like I said, everything will be separate. So I would
give that constituent a way to contact me separately from
what I would be an award office. I wouldn't I wouldn't
entertain that thought of answering that question right
then and there and if there's a conflict I would
respectfully ask that I have to I have to ask if this is
allowed or not, but it's very difficult to answer.
Um
Through circumstances it would yeah, so my my follow-up
question that would be is that necessarily fair to the
constituent?
Either way, all Commissioners have day jobs. So even even if
you wanted to reach a commissioner who didn't have my role
role they would also have to navigate that with that
certain commissioner. So I would I would find ways to get
back to that constituent. It would just have to be in
accordance with the work agreement.
That's a fair statement. Um to the uh, is that is that
back? Who the uh,
Director of the ccpsa. Uh, what is the expectation of uh,
our is that can I ask it? Yeah, go ahead. Okay, uh
expectation of a time commitment for commissioner of the
ccpsa chairman recognizes executive director Adam gross.
Thank you Alderman our surprise witness today.
Adam gross executive director of the community commission
for Public Safety and accountability the uh, the
expectations or the requirements have varied anywhere
between uh, I'd say 3 hours a week and 40 hours a week, uh
some weeks for some commissioners.
Okay, um.
All right.
My my real my real concern is that the worker the ccpsa is
important? Um, I I understand your desire to uh serve, um,
barring, um, a necessary, uh legal issue. I do think this
is something that we need to fix. Um, we should not have to
put people through this this level of gymnastics in order
for them to serve. Um, we met we definitely need to create
some uh, clear and transparent rules around this, um, the
situation that's before us, um, uh while um, unfortunately
it is not any of any fault of the uh, applicant, uh, you
know, with that being said while I um, there is no
conclusion today. I do think that this needs to be fixed. I
will support your appointment because there's not a there's
nothing clear and I don't think you need to be the victim
of something being unclear statutorily. Um, but uh, this is
something that we definitely need to fix, uh going forward
and uh that
That be clear rules about this. Uh, so that this we don't
put ourselves or put an individual through this level of
scrutiny or or through this, uh through the through this
level and that Agony in order to uh to get appointment get
a appointed as you said others do have day jobs and you're
right which you're being singled out because of who you
work for and that's not the that's not necessarily fair to
you process. It is what it is. But uh, I think we
definitely need to fix this, uh going forward.
Forward and but I I'll support you because there is no
prohibition against it at this point.
Thank you Alderman Ervin Alderman. Vazado followed by
alderwoman Lee.
Thank you chairman.
I think I am.
I have to say
I talked to Angel I'm gonna call you an American named
Angel so
You had 100% had my support. He still does but like well,
I'm gonna pile otano. I'm worried about putting my
constituent a good kid in a trick bag. I thought this was
all resolved. I I'm baffled. I'm totally baffled. My head
is spinning today. I thought this would be a simple yes or
no a couple people might feel as a conflict of interest. I
don't feel I'm getting any answers and I'm saying this out
of protection and love for you angel. I really am you have
full fully have my support. I think you have a future and
that's another thing. I don't want to see a black light a
sky a black eye a sky on your resume. I don't know why this
is an issue and you cannot compare this to being an
insurance salesman or something like this. He works for the
city and he has another job for the city, which I believe
he could separate at all, but I don't I don't know the
consequences but my office nobody has titles, but if you
have a title in your office that
The bridge which which your title again angel, I'm sorry, uh
director of neighborhood service and Public Safety Public
Safety and award. So that that which makes it a little
different you're not you're just not a constituent service
guy that people are coming in for trees or whatever. You
have a special and I guess and that says that on your
business card.
As of now, yes, okay. All right, so
I may I support you. I think you're a great kid. I think
you could separate the differences, but I think we we need
the city. We are putting you in a terrible position. I
don't feel we got any good answers over here. I don't think
I don't want to see something to turn around and bite you
on the ass a week from now a month from now. Um, I think
uh, Adam, I think are probably closer. It's more to
probably 3 to 5 hours a week rather than 40 hours a week if
this is a 40 hour a week job and you already have a
more than a 40 hour week job because we're working for
another is not a 40 hour week job. That's for sure. Um, so
I'm just saying that's at 11 action for you and care for
you. Like I say once again, you have my support but this is
very disappointing to me today to be here going round and
round and round not sure what's going on. Maybe if so, not
so
Kind of sort of I mean very disappointing. That's all I
have to say. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you all the
woman leave followed by Alderman Cardona.
Thank you chairman. Um and Adam, thank you for answering
that question for us about the time. Um, and I get it EBS
and flows right some some weeks. It'll you might not have a
meeting and you might just have to take a couple of phone
calls. In other weeks. It could be up to 40. I mean and
that that raises the question to me about whether why
aren't these full-time positions? It's a rhetorical it's a
semi rhetorical question. But if it's that's an important.
Why don't we make it full-time? I know that in speaking to
president Anthony driver, you know, he gave testimony I can
tell you when but he's he has said it, you know, uh, what
you're getting paid is an enough for the work that's being
done. Um, and for the number of hours and the the personal
resources, even um that are being put into this so that I
want to put on the record like we need to take a look at
whether or not these need to be full-time paid positions.
Um,
that would help us get out of some of these conflicts to be
honest with you. Um, I I think that anytime where there's
even the possibility of you having to risk 40 hours of
work, you you are a young employee of the city. I don't
think that you've been around long enough to have more than
2 weeks vacation and that you know, 40 hours is a whole
week at that point. Um, and and that again disservice to
you. Um,
Me Mr. Chairman. I'm wondering if we can uh hold this until
we can see what the recommended changes are. Um from the
law department or whoever is making the changes to this
ordinance. Um before we consider the vote here, I again,
I'm with everybody else. I would love to vote Yes for you.
Um, but I think we need to cover we we need to cover
ourselves and
and anybody else that would be in your position at the end
of the day I um
So you make it a motion to hold it? Yes. I'm making a
motion. Okay, I I recognize the motion. Uh, however, um, I
I would also support that premise that you know, this needs
to be a full-time position. I would certainly support it if
that came about but I we do have a point of information
from um, Alderman Vasquez now make sure it's a point of
information though. Yeah. No, absolutely as somebody who I
think out of
most of the folks here was actually involved with the
writing ecps. Um, there's a lot of things that are being
assumed that in the conversations we talked about there
were conversations about city employees running for the
office as a benefit because people who know how government
runs and have different experiences can also add to the
role that was discussed as part of what was drafted. Um,
what was also discussed was the Commissioners being
full-time and being paid what made it challenging was there
were a lot of people who didn't want to see anything past.
And so ultimately we had to figure out which things were
going to move forward to get enough votes to pass because
there were those who were supportive of a gapa those who
were supportive of CPAC the mayor had a third version that
was coming in. So these things were discussed because it
was not viewed as exactly a negative, uh, as far as the
conversation related to amendments. Yes. I think we're in
agreement that there need to be changes like any living
document that moves forward. We have members moving stuff
Now that also hasn't been clarified. That's what law is
about. So yes, there are things that can be done improved.
to make it full-time, but it was
brought up when we talked about ecps about folks who had
all different experiences as it relates to a check and
balance. They're at will employees Lenny could fire him
tomorrow.
If he wanted to based on what was happening, so I know
there's a lot of assumptions on what could be done and what
isn't clarified. It's pretty clear. They're at will
employees. They can be fired if there's a conflict.
And there wouldn't be anything that would be subject to any
challenge if there was a lawsuit or not the agreement when
they are hired or that they are at will employees and can
be fired. That would be the check and balance so there
would not be a conflict. Thank you. Thank you Alderman
Vasquez. Um 1 second. Um Alderman Lee
Um, are you finished? Yes, I'm done. Okay, thank you. All
the woman lie before we the the motion is up, um got a
question for vote, but I want to make sure that we go, um
to committee members questions first before we take the
vote Alderman Cardona followed by Alderman Napolitano.
Thank you chairman. Um,
I agree with Alderman Vasquez. Um when we were trying to do
this whole thing we had um, non for-profits the people's
Lobby doing everything they can and we always um,
There was a conflict if you're sending employee running for
this position.
um
and it's funny how the world just turns around because now
we're amending it because certain people are putting it
being put in position, um with you know, it's tick for tat.
I don't like that. Uh and 2 is
I always put always think about conflicts.
And I believe when you go to law school, they always tell
you to avoid conflicts.
so
angel, I believe you know, unfortunately you do work pretty
hard in his office and you do want to be appointed to
position, but you have to choose 1 over the other probably.
Because you cannot be, you know doing 2 things at 1 time,
especially you're saying I would you know, when situations
occur, you know, I will make certain decisions to um recuse
yourself, but everybody knows here in this office or as
Alderman and work. It's a fast pace.
And I don't think you're once you leave and you're doing
something you got to come back documenting unless you're
you're really good in that or um, you know, you're very um
talented. Uh, I applaud you but in this in this world that
we live in it's a fast pace and I think it'll be a
discernment to the residents for you. I'm having 2
different.
2 positions working with the city and then favoring 1 over
the other.
My suggestion is avoid conflicts and choose what position
you want you want to do this or you want to continue
working with the alderman because we won't have situations
like this.
and um, but I am for your appointment, but there's
There's there's Shades of Grey. I do not like and I don't
agree. So um with you, uh with my colleague here, um
holding it. I think it's the best thing until they amend it
or trying to figure something out. Thank you chair. Thank
you. Um Alderman Napolitano
Thank you chairman. I'll make this very quick. I I create
wholeheartedly with my colleague Alderman Vasquez, uh how
much time and effort he put in this but my my point of this
too just a point of clarification. That's my fear. Is that
um,
He's not willing employee where we're saying. If there's a
conflict then he could just be fired.
I don't that's not what I want to see for for him. I'd
rather see that he's in a position where he knows he can do
his job and not mess up and get fired. And now he's
tarnished on his resume. That's that's what I'm worried
about. This is a a young individual who wants to be a part
of the city. Hopefully for the next 20 plus years that if
you make a mistake that he's not well employed. He gets
fired that goes on his
Because we're not clear here that affects him for the rest
of his his life. I agree with what you have to say. But at
the same time, how could we do that to him? Why why are we
doing that to him? Thank you chairman.
Thank you.
Any other committee members?
Alderman Rodriguez
Thank you, sir. I'm good. Um I
I think you for the debate, uh, Mr. Chair. Um, I'm I'm
You know.
I thought certain way about the way this committee meeting
has gone particularly given that the board of Ethics well
for me director gross, uh couple questions for you if
that's okay.
um
I I I Believe in Your Capacity you have reached out to the
board of ethics on this matter. And what was the resolution
there?
uh regarding regarding, uh, the CCP PSA and this
appointment, uh, I believe
You guys engaged in Board of ethics on the matter?
What was the conclusion uh, uh regarding this matter from
the board of Ethics. We've heard the same thing that the
that the chair and others have heard that yeah, and I've
reached out to you.
And what was that conclusion sir from the board of Ethics?
What was their conclusion on the matter that they're that
there isn't an ethical issue under the board of Ethics
ordinance? Okay, I believe this this matter has been
settled. That is it.
In my humble opinion, um as far as a ccpsa, what was the
process in which uh, this uh nomination was vetted.
there was uh, so by ordinance there is a nominating
committee made up of 1 member of each district council, uh,
that meets develop some more detailed process for uh for
soliciting applications and reviewing those applications.
So that group of 22 nominating committee members met over a
period of months to develop the process to solicit
applications to review the applications, uh, and to vote so
under the rule set out in the in the ordinance and the
further process that they elaborated on, uh, they received
other over a hundred applicants, um, interviewed candidates
and then uh selected 15 names to send to the mayor the
mayor, uh, as is required under the ordinance picked 7 of
those 15, which were sent to the committee for uh,
For confirmation anal. You're a resilient person. I feel
like you've been through a rigorous process up to this
point. Um, I feel very bad that you're in you've been put
in the situation because you have been put in a situation
and I would hope uh that the committee would uh, pass your
uh nomination today, uh, and um as a non-committee member
thank you, Mr. Chair for allowing me the opportunity to
speak I won't take more time. Thank you.
Thank you Alderman. Um other than woman Then followed by
Alderman Vasquez.
thank you cheer, um what happens if
Alderman Alder person Mana hoppenworth has a public safety
policy that you oppose.
That's up to her.
No, I mean what are you going to be doing with your role?
If you are a successful commissioner, are you going to be
promoting policy that is counter to the aldermanic office
that you serve for?
I am I'm supposed to be an independent as a commissioner
and I know and I will remain doing so and I will tell the
order woman that it's inappropriate if she would have come
to me and try to sway me on any sort of policy or opinion,
but I just want to be clear so you would be representing.
the 48th Ward during business hours
promoting
Alderman Mana hoppin where its policy even if you are not
the public safety lead we do serve at the pleasure of an
alderman in.
And the off hours you would be promoting and supporting a
different policy.
I would be independent as my role as commissioner has
stated under the ordinance and if there's any conflict or
if the auto woman comes at me with any sort of comments of
that nature. I will tell her that it's inappropriate under
the ordinance.
understood but
even if she doesn't approach you for your thoughts on it if
she comes out with policy or procedure that she's looking
to promote.
That directly conflicts what you're looking to do with this
commission if you're the successful candidate.
Your response is that you will remain independent.
I can't promote the auto woman's policies in the commission
and I would have to remain independent of that. Okay. Thank
you. So.
Thank you that that that answers very helpful to me because
I think Mr. Chairman we've gone through quite a bit of
conversation today and at the end of the day we serve our
Wards and the city and
there is an appearance of conflict here.
There is and we have to be really thoughtful particularly
in the times that we are in right now.
I think you're incredibly bright candidate you and I have
had multiple conversations, but any appearance of conflict
is simply not something that we should be getting behind
right now. And I think that we've been using different
opinions.
For different reasons today. So ethics did say that it is
not it doesn't violate the ethics code for this candidate
to proceed. But ethics also said Council if you have
concerns you should you should amend the legislation which
they're telling us we have concerns. We should amend the
legislation but we also as this committee if we have
concerns, we also can vote. No if we have concerns. Um, I
do have concerns and I do think that we probably need to
amend the ordinance and I also think that colleagues worked
incredibly hard during the last session to move this
forward and uh on Alderman Vasquez. I know you worked
incredibly hard on it and um,
Legislation's imperfect and and and sometimes we have to
amend but we have a few things going on here. We have the
appearance of a conflict. Um just a hard stop right there
and I I cannot support that. Um, I would be happy to work
with colleagues to amend the original ordinance to prevent.
I I don't think aldermanic staff should serve on the 7
member commissioned the work is critically important, um,
and they need they need to be incredibly independent and
and not also be serving in an aldermanic office and quite
frankly if we move on uh an ordinance to amend this I would
probably like to see no mayoral staff and no aldermanic
staff to sit on the 7 member Commission because again, the
work is so important and I think I think if we promote a
candidate to this commission with even the appearance of a
conflict, it dilutes the work that the other 6-fold.
Are doing and the work that the 7 on the interim commission
is doing so thank you Mr. Chairman. And I I believe the
mayor staff is prohibited from serving on serving on
committees, um or boards.
Alderman thank you. Alderwoman nen. Um Alderman Vasquez.
Yeah. Thank you. Thank you, and I really appreciate uh, my
colleagues Point, um related to kind of
employees and their independence. I've got a number of
employees who disagree with me regularly on things. So, uh,
I know it's surprising, uh, you know, we we work on policy
that they might feel needs to be more ambitious than what
we work on. They voiced those opinions. They might disagree
on a vote. I might have they'll disagree. They they'll find
the time outside of work to Advocate to work on moving
legislation to talk to people to organize. That is the
right as people. I hire them for a certain amount of time
to do a job in a function if there is a conflict that
interrupts their job, I as the employer because I have an
ad will employee can make the call to say this is actually
not helping you serve in the function of this role. So I I
think there's a difference between what an employee a
person who is employed by a job can do during those
employee hours and then being a person with their own mind
their own freedom of speech their own thoughts. So, yes, we
all know because we have colleagues here who we all get
along. We're all part of a body we might be diametric
Li opposed on issues there are things that are currently law
that we may disagree on that we try to work to amend so
we can do 2 things at once we can disagree with the thing
and understand that the rules are the rules and still be
able to abide by them and still maybe find out ways to
change them. I think it becomes a little more.
It's more nuanced than it appears. I think when we ask
about conflict, the board of Ethics has said there is no
conflict. The department of law has said there's no
conflict. There's a difference between appearance of a
conflict and actual conflict.
They have said there is not a conflict. I I appreciate my
colleagues really being concerned about conflict as it
relates to this particular role in government. However,
when my colleagues want to work second jobs and collect
second paychecks and don't see the conflict inherent in
doing those 2 jobs. That is an interesting conversation as
well because there's clearly an appearance of conflict
there when someone is working what is more than a 40-hour
job as an older person and then working a secondary job, I
would argue that is more of a conflict than what is being
done here because in this conversation, there's actually a
an agreement between the employer and employee that's
written out as to what they would determine would be as a
conflict. And then that's just the decision. They're making
as employee employer that's not law or ethics. They're
saying in order for them to operate going forward. They
want some clarity which is fair for all of us to want. Um,
so again, there's appearances of conflict.
There's actual conflict. There's conflict depending on what
role we're talking about apparently and we don't
necessarily want the same rules applying across the board
or else we'd be moving forward with the legislation to make
Alderman only the only job we have
so I think consistency also matters.
As it relates to members who want to work on amending ecps.
The more the merrier because the more perspectives we have
the better we craft legislation which is why it's a little
concerning that the Department of Law is already drafting
things without their even being a table set because
alderwoman Nugent and I may have different opinions on a
perspective of law.
Chairman Tyler may have a different opinion the actual
commission itself, which is now not in theory. But in
actuality may have takes on some of this law.
Right their District counselors who are now a reality and
not just drafted in law who all have perspectives on what
this law could be. So if we really want to work on making
this the best legislation possible going forward there
needs to be an nment that we aren't the end all be all of
it all and it should include all the stakeholders in this
legislation, which means it shouldn't be moving quickly. We
should all talk about it. I'm happy to be a part of it as
well as other members, but that is separate from this
particular matter about 1 appointment with the existing law
as it is and the fact that the board of ethics and the
Department of Law have both said there is no conflict.
There is no conflict is what they've made clear through
multiple people asking so yes 2 things can happen. We can
move forward with an appointment where everyone hears in
agreement.
When we're talking about the actual appointee that is
clear. He's invested. It's clear that he is talking through
how he can separate both of the roles. So there isn't a
conflict that is passionate that he is skilled that people
see the investment in someone. Uh, like Angel is an
appointee that there's an agreement. I don't see anyone
here saying anything different so we can move forward with
1 appointment while also committing to changing the law and
it doesn't mean that we're trying to stop because it could
very well be that we're better informed by people working
in government knowing that Public Safety is more nuanced
than what it looks like on a headline or a tweet. So I
would ask our colleagues.
To really think about 1 matter separate from the other.
Yes, we can move forward with the appointment. And yes, we
can work on legislation going forward. Thank you very much
Sherman. Thank you. Rob all the investing. Are there any
other questions or comments from committee members or
non-members? Let me let me clarify something also because I
mistake I misstated something a little earlier, um in each
of you probably received the opinion from um, ethics and
and I think uh Alderman Mike Rodriguez as well as um,
executive director gross clarified that the the board of
Ethics opine that it did not violate the ordinance itself
which includes conflicts, but that was their specific
language as I recall reading it. They didn't say that it
Didn't violate the conflict but it did not violate. Um any
any ethical concerns with them so which includes conflicts?
So, uh alderwoman Lee has a motion that's pending, uh a
motion to hold the item. Uh, we'll take a vote on that that
item a yes vote is that you want to hold item in committee,
then no vote is to move forward with a vote on the
appointment. Um, can I get a mo? Well, we do have a motion
all those in favor of holding this item in committee
signify by saying yes, or I
all those in favor of moving forward with this with this
support appointee.
Say no.
Oh.
Let me know because we do.
I'll do a roll call because the the eyes and the nas are
are very close and we'll go through it very quickly.
Vice chair Robinson
Alderman Hall
Alderman Mitchell
Where do we go?
We're voting on whether to hold the item in committee a yes
is to hold it in committee a know is to move forward with
the vote.
Alderman Mitchell
all the women lie
Alderman Curtis
all the women Taylor
Alderman Mosley
hold the woman Taylor. Yes, Alderman Mosley.
other woman to Baris
alderman
Alderman Cardona
Yes.
alderman vazado
alderman nent
Alderman the politano
alderman kiten know
Alderman Gardiner I
alderwoman clay know
alderwoman Silverstein
alderman thali
Chairman, uh Robinson votes. No
chairman Robinson know
there's 9 years to hold the item in committee.
6 Nays to move forward with the vote. The item will be held
in committee.
There being no further business before the committee and
can I get a motion to adjourn?
those in favor say I
those opposed nay and the opinion of chairs the eyes have
it this meeting of the committee on police and fire is
hereby a journey.