Good morning, everybody. Um, we do have another couple of
minutes before we officially get started. This is just your
uh, this is your 2-minute warning.
Good morning.
good morning, the committee on Environmental Protection and
energy will now come to order. Um, good morning everybody.
It's good to see a nice Full House for this very important
topic.
topic today. Um, we are still waiting for a few of our
colleagues to uh come in who are coming from different
events. And so we're actually going to begin with uh,
public comments before we take our
Public comments before we take our Quorum roll call. Um, so
I want to thank everybody who has signed up.
I want to thank everybody who has signed up for public
comment.
um our public comment period um, normally we limit it to
Um our public comment period um, normally we limit it to 30
minutes. Um we have about we have 14 people.
minutes. Um we have about we have 14 people who have timely
signed up um to speak in person. So we're just going to go
ahead and allow everyone to speak. Um, it just seems like
the easiest thing to do. Um, so just remember though out of
respect for everybody's time. Each speaker will be limited
to 3 minutes. Um, and we're going to start we took this in
the order that we received them. Um,
so Adrian murawski
Good morning. Good morning. I'm a Adrien marowski the local
government Affairs director for the Illinois.
government Affairs director for the Illinois Realtors
covering Chicago for the Chicago Association of real.
covering Chicago for the Chicago Association of Realtors.
Chair Haden. Thank you for holding.
Chair Haden, thank you for holding the hearing today on the
proposed clean and affordable.
proposed clean and affordable buildings ordinance. I want
to thank alderman viegas for introducing a resolution
calling upon a working group to bring.
calling upon a working group to bring more perspectives to
the table.
The real estate industry has not waited for building
mandates from the city. In fact Realtors have supported
efforts to educ.
efforts to educate Property Owners on how to decrease
carbon emissions.
carbon emissions for many years.
We supported.
We supported Cook County leaders when they adopted a
property tax incent.
property tax incentive for commercial owners installing
solar pan.
solar panels.
And the Realtors have been heavily invol.
And the Realtors have been heavily involved at the federal
level for support of rebbe.
level for support of rebate programs for property owners
installing.
installing energy efficient systems.
We do recognize the need for more research, especially when
it comes to gaps.
it comes to gaps in implementation in the permitting
process.
for example a property owner in the 3 0
For example a property owner in the 32nd Ward who installed
solar panels had to wait.
solar panels had to wait 2 years to get proper approvals
through the city.
through the city even as he worked with the ward office.
through the city even as he worked with the ward office at
another multi-family housing project it.
another multi-family housing project it cost an additional
50,000 for all.
50,000 dollars for all the electrical hookups associated.
with non- Gas Energy Supply
the variables for permitting and additional costs make
decarbonization expensive and costs.
decarbonization expensive and costs are passed on to
tenants.
Understanding The Wider implications will allow the city to
put.
put forward programs that can support communities.
put forward programs that can support communities that may
experience Rising housing costs from deck.
experience Rising housing costs from decarbonization
efforts. We also understand the benefit.
efforts. We also understand the benefits the aforementioned
solar panel project that took 2 years for permit approval
is estimated.
is estimated to produce 88
th
Thousand kilowatt hours of energy over its lifespan. That is
the equivalent of 70,000 gallons of gasoline 214 tons of
waste recycled instead of landfill.
waste recycled instead of landfilled and the planting of
10600.
10600 or 10461 trees these
10600 or 10461 trees. These are positive results for our
environment results we can
environment results. We can hope our duplicated in all of
Chicago's neighborhood.
Chicago's neighborhoods with the proper considerations.
We strongly encourage the city to speed up the permitting
process for energy.
process for Energy Efficiency improvements mandatory or
volunt.
voluntary. This is low-hanging fruit if the
voluntary. This is low-hanging fruit. If the city were to
adopt the clean and affordable buildings ordinance without
adjusting the permitting process new construction would be
significantly delayed. This Factor alone is concerning
based off the need to bring 120,000 hous.
based off the need to bring 120,000 housing units into
existence the city should also do everything.
existence the city should also do everything in its power
to defray costs for Builders. Who
to defray costs for Builders who need to align with current
building practices.
building practices with this mandate. Thank you.
Thank you so much.
Um, we we did get some advice but though I know we started
public.
public comment. I'm going to pause briefly. I am going to
take a roll call for Alders that are present. We do not
yet.
have a quorum, but we are only having a subject matter
hear.
hearing today. So we will be able to continue but I do want
to uh, take a brief role call just to let the official uh
record reflect who is present here.
record reflect who is present here before we resume public
comment. Um, so I'm going to start this role call. Um,
Older person hadn't the chairs here. Um older person Knudsen
older person laspada
Alder person Ramirez
older person Lopez
Oh he is present. Gotcha.
um older person tovarus
older person Scott
Alder person
alder-person sigcho Lopez
older person Cruise
older person Rodriguez Sanchez
Elder person Conway
Elder person Riley
Elder person Lawson
Elder person clay
alder-person Martin
an older person Mana hoppenworth
Thank you.
Thank you, North Side Lake Shore.
Yeah also present not on the committee. We've got older.
person newent Lee more and Quinn want to thank you all.
person newent Lee more and Quinn want to thank you all for
being here. Um when we have achieved Quorum, I will stop
officially take Quorum. We do have a number.
officially take Quorum. We do have a number of older
persons who are um, Alderman Vas.
persons who are um, Alderman vas. Thanks for being here.
Um, we do have a number of older persons, who are
Um, we do have a number of older persons who are
participating virtually until we have a quorum we
participating virtually until we have a quorum. We will not
be able to um, uh,
be able to um, uh entertain a motion to allow them to
officially be noted as present. Um, so thank you guys for
your patience.
your patience and we are going to resume public comment.
Anthony p
Good.
Good morning.
Hopefully everyone.
Hopefully everyone is well the most powerful energy that.
know is the Sun.
Even though it's cloudy and rainy.
Even though it's cloudy and rainy the sun is still Shining.
Heavenly Father gave us an energy
to utilize. However, we continue.
to utilize. However, we continue to use fuels that are
damaging.
damaging our lungs.
But more importantly the children.
But more importantly the children's future.
the
The most important meeting that I've been to here is today.
Why do we not have fell?
Why do we not have fellow Alderman? Where is our great?
mayor?
I represent greener.
I represent Greener tomorrow's.
an organization that has a
An organization that has a green thumb and a blue thumb.
The Blue Thumb teaches at risk communities throughout the
country. Hopefully the world how to filter their own water.
and how to cultivate their own seeds and grow because here's
the thing my my foster mom was born in 1926.
And she said Anthony.
you have
You have to learn some essential skills.
Because guess what?
Something big is coming. She said you need to learn.
Something big is coming. She said you need to learn
Spanish, man. I want Antonio.
Spanish, man. I want Antonio write something big was
coming.
Why do we?
Why do we have to continue to make everything pollitt?
Because guess what if God does this?
everyone's going
because we are about a missed.
because we are about a missed in the grand scheme of
things. I have a 5 year old.
things. I have a 5 year old child of 14 year old daughter.
They deserve clean water.
Because 80% of our waterways are full of what?
Because 80% of our waterways are full of what plastic.
I was able to check an email today and I'm gonna help
clean.
up the river next week.
And then in septembar, I believe they're going to swim in
the river.
Because the great Army.
because the great Army Corps of Engineers were able to make
a feat like none other in reverse the flow because they put
their differences aside.
Where are
the rest of our leaders that were appointed
This is the most important.
This is the most important meeting. We don't care about
where the socks play with the Bulls win the championship
because guess what if God does that it's over.
We have to remember we're put here to help.
We have to remember we're put here to help each other leave
a place better when you leave than it was when you got
there.
Plant a tree on your birthday.
Some of us got a lot of trees to plant.
Why do we continue to?
Why do we continue to waste why do we continue to use
styrofoam?
We voted that out.
Why are there Styrofoam cup?
Why are there styrofoam cups?
Across the street. Why are we?
Across the street. Why are we using those? Why are we
damaging our world our future?
Comment I have friends.
Comment. I have friends that work that we don't want to
take you out of business.
But we want to give large Factor.
But we want to give large factories. We want to give
communities that need the resources. We want them to have
that when I do door to door. Oh, well, I want to pay like,
it's just it's interesting then we have to wait forever.
Thank you.
Our next speaker is Jane Ruby.
Hi, everyone.
Hi everyone. My name is Jane Ruby and I'm president of the
Chicago League.
Chicago League of Women Voters. I live in the Logan Square
neighborhood. I'm speaking today on behalf of the Chicago
League.
League because climate change poses a risk to our
democracy.
and the past year the hottest in history we in Chicago.
have experienced toxic air from wildfires far away.
have experienced toxic air from wildfires far away flooding
from heavy rains and februari weather much warmer than
normal.
While such weather may be pleasant.
While such weather may be pleasant it is assigned something
is wrong effective climate.
is wrong effective climate action requires political
commitment at the federal state.
commitment at the federal state and absolutely at the local
level here in Chicago.
level here in Chicago nearly 1 in 5 Chicago residents are
behind on their gas bills and gas rates are continuing to
increase additionally burning gas indoors exposes us to
chemicals that cause cancer and asthma
the clean and affordable buildings ordinance is a key first
step in the necessary transition.
step in the necessary transition away from fossil fuels
that are expensive.
Harmful to our health and terrible for our climate.
Harmful to our health and terrible for our climate Cabo
would put a cap on emissions allowable.
would put a cap on emissions allowable and new construction
of commercial and residential buildings a cap. Natural gas
cannot meet.
electricity now have drawn from admissions free resources
of nuclear wind and solar power would be able to meet the
requirement. We at the league recognized the
disproportionate.
disproportionate impact the human cause climate crisis has
on health Economic Opportunity and fundamental rights.
It is an environmental justice issue.
It is an environmental justice issue Frontline communities
are having trouble paying high.
are having trouble paying high gas bills electric buildings
are cheaper and better for Public Health.
some argue that actions to decrease emissions would hurt the
economy, but the cost of doing nothing or even higher and
are increasing with every day of inaction.
I urge the city.
I urge the city council to pass the clean and affordable
buildings ordinance. Thank you to everyone on this
committee.
Thank you.
Our next speaker is George Tully.
Thank you for the opportunity.
Thank you for the opportunity to testify today.
and thank you all for
And thank you all for your time and effort in making
Chicago a wonderful place.
Chicago a wonderful place to call home.
You have difficult jobs and I appreciate your work.
My name is George Tully and I'm a realtor with that
property and I founded the sustainability Committee of the
Chicago Association of Realtors.
Chicago Association of Realtors and served as its
chairperson for the first 2 years.
I've worked for the past decade or on the overlap.
sustainability and property with a particular interest.
ways to educate Chicagoans on how they can reduce the
footprint of their homes and buildings.
I am asking you to please support the clean affordable
building Orden.
building ordinance.
Cabo is a pragmatic first step.
Cabo is a pragmatic first step to decarbonizing our
building and housing invent.
building and housing inventory.
It is also a promise to stop adding to the problem.
It is also a promise to stop adding to the problems. Our
kids will inherit.
It is a signal.
It is a signal from the city that we are collectively
committed to having 21.
committed to having 21st SE 21st century technology.
committed to having 21st SE 21st century technology in our
homes and buildings.
People's gas has Justified rate hikes by pointing out that
the gas.
the gas infrastructure beneath. Our city has aged to the
point of being dangerous.
This should tell us something.
There are cascading benefits to making the transition.
There are cascading benefits to making the transition to
decarbonized homes and buildings.
All electric homes are less expensive to build and less
EXP.
expensive to heat and cool. The air quality is much
healthier.
healthier and if Chicago commits to 21st century technology
for our homes and buildings, it will create.
for our homes and buildings. It will create thousands of
good paying jobs.
Navigating exactly how to transition our city to.
Navigating exactly how to transition our city to a
sustainable future is a difficult issue for for.
leadership.
I don't envy having to take into.
I don't envy having to take into consideration the diverse
views of 2.6.
views of 2.6 million Chicagoans.
There are good people that do.
There are good people that do not share the understanding
that the time to act is now.
Some might point to the obstacles we will face during.
transition as reasons to do nothing.
But that doesn't change what we see with our own eyes.
The climate crisis is underway in doing what's right.
The climate crisis is underway in doing what's right when
it's difficult is the true test of leadership.
And we need Chicago to lead when it comes to climate
change.
and if we continue down the same path
And if we continue down the same path our choices in the
future aren't going to get any easier.
Cabo is our opportunity to take a first step.
Cabo is our opportunity to take a first step down a
different path.
I know you will be presented with competing arguments while
the ordinance is Deb.
the ordinance is debated.
When I need Clarity on how to think through these types.
When I need Clarity on how to think through these types of
choices, I imagine the questions my son.
choices, I imagine the questions my son already and my
daughter Lucy will have for me when they're adults.
Were you told how bad this would be?
Yes.
Did you have the opportunity to?
Did you have the opportunity to do something about it? Yes.
What did you?
What did you do?
Thank you for your time today.
Thank you, very
Thank you very much for your comment.
Our next speaker is Wayne Beals.
Good morning, everybody. Uh, thanks for having this
informational hearing today. I appreciate your attention to
this matter. Uh, my name is Wayne Beals. I'm a development
consultant. I work on electrifying buildings and removing
gas lines from existing homes.
gas lines from existing homes, and I just wanted to share
with you guys.
Some thoughts today on my experiences over the last 10 years
and deck.
years and decarbonizing Chicago's real estate.
Uh, so as of today a significant majority of homes built
are still using natural gas a polluting fossil fuel for
heating cook.
heating cooking hot water and closed drying.
proven to
Proven to be unnecessary many home builders and low to mod.
moderate income neighborhoods such as wood lawn and West
Humble Park are now producing all electric homes
profitably.
if
If these homes could be produced in these neighborhoods,
they can be built anywhere in.
they can be built anywhere in Chicago.
further the inflation reduction
Further the inflation reduction act provides funding and
incentives for all electric homes.
incentives for all electric homes and this ordinance allows
Chicago to make the most of this Democrat.
Chicago to make the most of this Democratic legislation to
benefit its residents.
Please consider these facts.
Cold climate heat bumps powered by electricity can replace
polluting.
polluting gas powered furnaces without additional cost.
pumps operated 300 to 380% eff.
pumps operated 300 to 380% efficiency versus 80 to 95%
efficiency.
efficiency with a gas system.
power to heat homes
Power to heat homes is plentiful on the grid in wintertime.
The grid has been.
The grid has been designed for Peak power in the summer air
conditioning.
conditioning season and has plenty of unused capacity.
the winter.
heat pump hot water heaters and
Heat pump hot water heaters and heat pump dryers are on the
market and available at home centers. They operate at 300
to 380% efficiency.
to 380% efficiency and cost less to run than polluting gas
competition.
Induction cooking has been replacing gas.
induction cooking has been replacing gas stoves and
significant numbers as consumer preferences have been
changing data shows correlation between asthma
respiratory illness from the combustion of gas indoors on
stoves and in heating equipment, and this has been
established by researchers.
established by researchers at Stanford University.
induction cooking
Induction cooking is safer and more efficient than gas
cooking and is considered.
cooking and is considered an upgrade by most consumers who
switch to it.
77% of Chicagoans favor regulation of carbon initiations
emissions according to the Yale climate study
Holmes
homes built by gas equipment today have to be retrofit in
the future.
the future costing consumers and the local economy.
All electric homes are safer and more comfort.
All electric homes are safer and more comfortable cost less
to run and are healthier for their occupants.
to run and are healthier for their occupants than gas homes
transitioning to all electric new.
transitioning to all electric. New home construction does
not disrupt the current homes use of gas and will prepare
Chicago by starting.
Chicago by starting to create a Workforce trained to
install heat pumps and more climate friendly home
technology.
Decarbonization will create jobs.
Decarbonization will create jobs decarbonization will lower
energy costs for the consumer.
energy costs for the consumer decarbonization will create
environmental justice by improving air quality inside and
outside our homes and reducing energy poverty in our
communities.
communities decarbonization will lower emissions allow.
communities decarbonization will lower emissions allowing
Chicago to meet its stated climate goals of 62% carbon
reduction.
reduction by 2040.
Thank you for your time this
Thank you for your time. This is a very serious topic.
Thank you very much for your comments.
Our next speaker is eiona Odom.
Good morning. My name is Ecom.
Good morning. My name is ecoma Odom the Chicago Outreach
senior coordinator for faith in place.
senior coordinator for faith in place, and I'm representing
the Illinois clean jobs coalition.
the Illinois clean jobs Coalition. My journey started in
Washington state where I graduated from.
Washington state where I graduated from Washington State
University with a bachelor's in social science
concentrating.
concentrating in psychology and sociology. I moved to
Chicago in 2015 and earned a masters.
Chicago in 2015 and earned a masters in social justice from
Loyola Loyola University.
Loyola Loyola University Institute of pastoral studies. I'm
currently a resident at Southshore.
Thank you for the opportunity to.
Thank you for the opportunity to express why I support the
clean and affordable.
clean and affordable buildings ordinance as a daughter of a
dad who?
dad who is diagnosed with a rare form of cancer caused by
chemical Expos.
chemical exposure. I know firsthand what it looks like and
feels like to have a parent exposed to a harmful chemical.
feels like to have a parent exposed to a harmful chemical
made readily available today.
Seek from an illness that could have been prevented.
as humans we are gifted with the ability to
As humans, we are gifted with the ability to imagine the
world. We want to live in as someone who fights daily.
world. We want to live in as someone who fights daily for
environmental justice is an important aspect.
environmental justice is an important aspect of doing the
work. You must imagine and then you bring what you envision
into fruition.
into fruition and often that entails being a part of a
Justice movement. I stand before you today committed to
seeing the community's
seeing the communities I serve flourish with every
opportunity made.
opportunity made available for them to do so
knowledge of the harmful effects of gas has not always been
forthcoming.
forthcoming our recent history teaches us that Gas
Utilities once used ambitious advertising methods to
convince consumers to put gas stoves in their homes.
According to NP.
According to NPR Natural Gas Utilities focus on convincing.
consumers that cooking with gas is as at risk as as
risk-free as cooking with electricity.
risk-free as cooking with electricity and that the research
about the health risk was UN,
about the health risk was uncertain. It was the same method
that tobacco companies use to debunk the growing concern
about the effects of nicotine.
For over 50 years. There has been EV.
For over 50 years. There has been evidence of the health
risks of gas stoves and yet here we are today.
risks of gas stoves and yet here we are today still trying
to make the necessary changes.
My truth is supported by the facts that burning meth.
My truth is supported by the facts that burning methane gas
produces dangerous pollutants that increase the re the risk
of childhood asthma.
when I learned about these effects, I
When I learned about these effects, I instantly thought of
my father who learned of his diagnosis less than a year
after.
after his retirement as a field director of the Department
of ecology.
Some of you here may say will you know, it's impossible to
eliminate all the harm?
eliminate all the harmful chemicals that are causing us
harm. But what does it mean to have the ability to
eliminate something that is detrimental to the health and
well-being of your residents?
well-being of your residents, but decide to leave it in
place in my opinion.
place in my opinion doing nothing is not an option,
especially when there are clear Pathways and cleaner air.
especially when there are clear Pathways and cleaner air a
cleaner Pathways to clear cleaner air.
cleaner Pathways to clear cleaner air and healthier
environments this ordinance sets.
environments. This ordinance sets the path to a healthier
Chicago it provides reassurance that those elected are
standing beside the communities they serve and it stops the
process of gas companies for perpetuating.
process of gas companies for perpetuating Injustice again,
I stand beside the communities most impacted by the
systemic structures.
systemic structures preventing them from flourishing. Will
you stand with us?
Thank you very much for your comments.
our
Our next speaker is Andrew Sloan.
Hi, I'm Andrew Sloan. I'm a member of the Illinois Sierra.
Club, and I'm also a member of the 47th award green
Council. Uh, I live in the Ravenswood neighborhood of the
47th Ward and um as many of you know, the air qual.
47th Ward and um as many of you know, the air quality up in
the north side, especially in the 47th Ward is very great,
uh compared to other parts of the city and I think passing
Cabo would be 1 of the a good first step.
Cabo would be 1 of the a good first step to improving air
quality across the city.
quality across the city, um, you know, this it's a common
sense initiative.
sense initiative that will offer long-term cough savings,
uh, improve public.
uh, improve Public Health, which you all know that burning
gas indoors is not very healthy. It's it's bad for your
brain.
brain, uh, it creates job opportunities and it will
importantly it will reduce our carbon footprint. Um,
Cabo represents a crucial step towards building
sustainable equable future for Chicago. So I encourage
sustainable equable future for Chicago, so I encourage you
all to support it and thank you for your time.
Yeah.
Thank you.
Thank you for your comments. Uh, we're going to take a
brief pause.
brief pause right now. Um, because we do have quorum
and so uh if I can urge my
and so, uh if I can urge my colleagues who are on the
committee to uh,
be ready to
say hello for a quorum call.
All right. We're going to take this Quorum roll call.
All right, uh older person hadn't present.
All right, uh older person hadn't present uh older person
Knudsen.
older person laspada
alder-person Ramirez
older person Lopez
older person s virus
alder-person Scott
Alder person sick to a Lopez
Alder
older person Cruise
Alder person Rodriguez Sanchez
alder-person Khan
alder-person Conway
alder-person Riley
alder-person Lawson
older person clay
alder-person Martin
older person Mana hoppenworth
um
I'll I'll recognize.
I'll I'll recognize our uh, non non-committee members. Um
briefly. We do have a alderman Rodriguez Sanchez.
present. I know she stepped out of the room briefly, um
having a quorum
Thank you guys for being here. Um, we do have 8 members
present. So I do want to mention we have uh several.
non-committee members, um with us in this space. Um, so
thank you, uh Allure person. Oh,
thank you, uh Allure person OSHA Allure person nent um,
Allure person more Allure person Quinn Alder person lie and
um, uh Allure person vas who was also here and then joining
us virtually we have uh, Alder person siko Lopez
us virtually. We have uh, Alder person siko Lopez, um Hall
clay ramire.
clay Ramirez Scott, Chico Vas.
clay Ramirez Scott Chico Vasquez, Bernett and
clay Ramirez Scott Chico Vasquez Bernett and cruise. Um,
could I have a motion? Um, they've all requested rule 59
participation for virtual, uh participation. I see a motion
from Alderman Martin, um to allow them to participate, uh,
pursuant to Rule 5.
pursuant to rule 59. Um, all in favor say I
All right, all opposed.
and the opinion of the chair of the eyes have it and the
forementioned Allure persons will be marked present for
today's.
today's meeting. And uh, thank you all for being here.
We're going to continue with public comments already.
We're going to continue with public comments already in
progress. Next up is uh, Cynthia.
progress. Next up is uh, Cynthia Linton.
Oh, it'll been down. Um, you can bend it down.
Good morning.
Thank you for this opportunity to speak. My name is Cynthia
Linton.
I live in streeterville.
I live in streeterville, um in a high-rise that is
almost all electric
and the the heating and the air conditioning all the
appliances all the washers and dryers.
are electric
the only thing that runs on gas is the water heater.
And it's not a new building.
It's 50 years old.
and the builders apparently were concerned about
And the builders apparently were concerned about carbon
monoxide leak.
monoxide leaks.
And that is why they allow.
And that is why they allowed.
no ass above the
fourth floor where I think the boiler is
I'm happy that I'm in an electric.
I'm happy that I'm in an electric building. Um, especially
since I've been reading recently.
about
About gas stoves giving off. Um
Benzene and
and nitrous oxide
and a large body of research also shows that it affects.
children with gives them as
my main reason for being here though is that we're in an
existential crisis.
fed largely by fossil fuel for em
fed, largely by fossil fuel emissions in Chicago nearly 30
nearly 70% of the emissions come from buildings, and we've
known that since mayor dies.
climate action plan in 2008
we can never meet.
our goals for emissions without addressing buildings
Cabo sets the emissions cap.
Cabo sets the emissions cap for the construction the natural
gas can
natural gas cannot meet but electricity can't
and that's because electricity is sourced from largely from
nuclear, but also from renewable sources.
nuclear, but also from renewable sources like wind and
solar.
about 50 other
cities have passed similar or ordinances.
and we should be doing our
And we should be doing our part.
You have a chance here.
You have a chance here to vote.
for the past or the future
For the past or the future in the future is electric.
Thank you for your comments.
Next up is Ryan.
Next up is Ryan, Wilmington.
Thank you chairwoman.
Thank you chairwoman and the rest of city council members
for the opportunity to?
for the opportunity to speak here today. I'm Ryan,
Wilmington with Illinois.
Wilmington with Illinois Green Alliance. We are member
driven nonprofit.
driven nonprofit with the mission and members who believe.
that sustainability and Energy Efficiency is the future of
the building sector and what our members are demonstrating
every day. Is that the transition to all electric clean
power.
Is already happening.
is already happening in Chicago, our members are working on
all types of high performance projects every day in Chicago
ranging from 3 flats and wood on to 20 unit apartment
buildings in Logan Square.
buildings in Logan Square and even skyscrapers in River
North these
North. These are a fraction of the all-electric projects in
the city.
the city and even City Hall's Neighbors.
the city and even City Hall's Neighbors at the Thompson
Center. Google are switching to all electric. It is clear
that the demand is there the technology is feasible and
these buildings are affordable.
Common Sense policy is critical at this.
Common Sense policy is critical at this point to
effectively advance and scale of the technology.
effectively advance and scale of the technology and best
practices of the building sector.
practices of the building sector Chicago needs to take
inspiration from cutting edge.
inspiration from Cutting Edge Market leaders, and not those
who want to stick.
who want to stick residents with ineffective outdated
techn.
technology that makes our residents unhealthy.
technology that makes our residents unhealthy and drains
their pockets. We know how to make buildings healthier and
better places to live.
better places to live everyone in Chicago will benefit from
this.
this policy. That's why over 150.
this policy. That's why over 150 building Professionals in
the industry and other leaders.
the industry and other leaders signed on to a letter
supporting these policies.
these professional
These professionals include Engineers Architects building
owners.
owners and operators property managers.
owners and operators property managers technology
developers and more. I've submitted this letter in my
written comments as well as other tests.
written comments as well as other testimony from Chicago's
industry experts. I urge city council to strongly consider
the voice of people building Chicago's future. Thank you.
Thank you so much for your comments.
Next up is Moline, uh sanus.
Great.
Good morning. And hello, thank you to the committee and
chairwoman Manhattan for holding a subject matter hearing
on the clean.
on the clean and affordable buildings ordinance. My name is
Matt.
Moline s and I'm here representing the natural resources
def.
defense Council in our DC appreciates the opportunity.
make comments during the subject matter hearing.
make comments during the subject matter hearing, um the
impact on an issue that impacts energy Burr.
impact on an issue that impacts energy burdens health and
of course our climate.
of course our climate we urge you to move this bill through
committee and on the floor for a yes vote. We have done the
working groups we have done.
working groups. We have done reports extensive stakeholder
Outreach and now a subject matter hearing the time is now
to take this first step this fuel neutral orbits will
many positive effects.
On our community prevent costly.
On our community prevent costly retrofits in the future
improve indoor air quality.
improve indoor air quality and ensure that we are not
continually.
continually spewing harmful pollutants in the air to
communities that are already burdened but for today since
so many people have already spoken to the climate and
health benefits. I will talk about the economics of
building all new electric buildings.
building all new electric buildings in the city of Chicago
a recent report.
a recent report commissioned by nrdc by the Energy Futures.
Group found substantial economic benefits with building all
new electric construction in the city of Chicago.
new electric construction in the city of Chicago this
analysis reveals that over a 20-year
analysis reveals that over a 20 year period households
across varying income Brack.
across varying income brackets can see savings for higher
income houses.
income houses of 15,000 and savings for lower.
income houses of 15,000 and savings for lower income
households surpassing 22.
households surpassing 22,000 with an initial bill impact.
households surpassing 22,000 with an initial bill impact,
uh, excuse me a bill increase of 4.
uh, excuse me a bill increase of 467 in the first year
alone. This not only has um effects on climate and health
but the economics
make sense as well.
Make sense as well. Notably this analysis includes.
specific into Data incorporates encompassing.
specific into Data incorporates encompassing 2024 ICC
approved rates for both utilities people's gas and calm ed
it.
It also includes analysis and incorporates the um to
incorporate data from the inflation reduction.
incorporate data from the inflation reduction act. This
just makes sense the meth.
just makes sense. The methodology is there and it includes
local data.
for those reasons and the many reasons that people have
already spoken to today. It is time to take this action.
already spoken to today. It is time to take this action and
pass the clean and affordable buildings ordinance. This is
the first step on how we re-envisioned Heating.
the first step on how we re-envisioned heating our homes
and making sure our communities are safe and can afford
their energy bills. Thank you and I urge you. Yes.
Thank you so much for your comments.
Our next speaker is Paul ber.
Our next speaker is Paul Berlin.
Hello. Thank you for listening and I'm also grateful that
alderwoman a lot. Uh
Lenny Mana happened with
Lenny Manar hoppenworth is here and Maria Haden too and our
neighboring word. Um Lenny Mana hoppenworth represents my
words, so
words. So I'm glad she's here. And also I want to say the
climate.
climate emergency is a real important problem. I mean we
know by now and the City of Chicago declared a climate.
emergency in february of 2020.
so the realtor should have had plenty of time to
that we need to have this transition. It's you know.
that we need to have this transition. It's you know, it's 4
years later. We need to get the ball moving on the climate
emergency. This is a real serious problem.
Um natural gas is a green.
Um natural gas is a greenhouse gas and you know the
greenhouse.
greenhouse gas effect is a real effect the uh, you know, we
don't even have to argue that anymore the the consensus
among the International Community of scientists. So it's
proven that the uh cost of natural gas installation.
proven that the uh cost of natural gas installation is not
more than the cost of electric install.
more than the cost of electric installation.
So please let's get moving on the clean afford.
So please let's get moving on the clean affordable building
ordinance.
Thank you.
Thank you for your comments.
our next speaker
Our next speaker is Kendrick Hall.
Hello, everyone.
Hello everyone. I'm Kendrick Hall. I'm the energy team lead
with people.
with people for Community recovery.
the clean and affordable
The cleaning affordable buildings ordinance would help
transition new buildings away.
transition new buildings away from natural gas. This is a
promising development.
promising development to protect Chicagoans from the
harmful effects of natural.
harmful effects of natural gas gas gas appliances pollute
IND
indoor air quality with Benzene a chemical that is
to cancer.
They also emit nitrogen.
They also emit nitrogen oxides and fine particulate matter
that increase the risk for Respiratory illness ESP.
in children.
children living in homes with
Children living in homes with gas stoves are 42% more
likely.
to suffer from asthma symptoms than those in homes with
electric stoves according to a 2020.
electric stoves according to a 2020 report by the Rocky
Mountain Institute.
Mountain Institute Physicians for social responsibility
mother.
mothers out front and Sierra Club here in Illinois, 1 in 5
of all childhood asthma
of all childhood. Asthma cases are attributable to cooking
with gas.
with gas according to a recent peer-reviewed analysis. I've
lived on the south side for more than 30 years and
residents and neighborhoods like mine decades.
residents and neighborhoods like mine Decades of industrial
pollution and Legacy contamination.
industrial pollution and Legacy contamination have already
heard our health I have asthma
heard our health. I have asthma and so do both of my
children not being able to breathe.
children not being able to breathe is the worst experience
that I've ever had if we weren't living in a home polluted
by gas these experiences.
by gas. These experiences might have been avoided Cabo is a
necessary.
necessary first step away from gas infrastructure in
and buildings and tour the cheaper healthier ways to
cheaper healthier ways to heat new buildings.
The data is clear. Natural gas is unhealthy now that we
have the information.
have the information and the technology to move away from
gas. We need the political momentum to make it happen.
gas. We need the political momentum to make it happen for
our health and our health and our kids health. We need to
see the city council pass cab.
see the city council pass Cabo. We know what the solution
is to protect our health and the health of generations to
come. What are we waiting for?
Thank you all.
Thank you for your comments.
I uh want to recognize uh, uh older person Lawson for the
purposes of quor.
purposes of Quorum and uh older person's visado alderman.
visado. Thank you for being present.
All right. Our next speaker is Paul. Kogan.
Good afternoon, or good morning. It's still uh, I'm Paul
colan. I represent the homebuilders through the
industry Association of Greater, Chicago.
industry Association of Greater Chicago, and I want to
start off by saying the homeless we build today.
start off by saying the home's we build today are the most
energy efficient.
energy efficient in the healthiest homes. We've ever built
in history.
in history and whether it's gas or electric and I think
that's a key thing because we are building.
that's a key thing because we are building at a higher
standard every day every year and um we but
standard every day every year and um, we but the purpose
I'm here for though is I want to preserve the choice of our
customers because majority of our customers still prefer.
gas and uh and so 1 of my concerns is is that as we move
forward with this,
forward with this Cabo ordinance. You've put this argument
down to a simple yes or no gas or no, you know electric or
not. Uh, and it shouldn't be it shouldn't be that binary it
is
It is more a diverse Choice it is a
Very complicated choice and our focus should be on.
Very complicated choice and our focus should be on
decarbonization. How do we actually lower?
decarbonization. How do we actually lower emissions? How do
we actually improve?
we actually improve the efficiency of our homes? How do we
lower the cost?
lower the cost to people and we're not doing that?
lower the cost to people and we're not doing that by just
simply passing combo instead what I'd like
simply passing combo instead. What I'd like to focus on is
what ottoman vagus
what ottoman viegas has called for which is more of an
open.
dialogue process of looking at all, the
dialogue process of looking at all the impact that Cabo may
bring to us.
bring to us and uh, you know, you're going to hear a lot of
testimony.
testimony today on the the good and the bad of cab.
testimony today on the the good and the bad of Cabo. I'm
not going to go into that, but I want you to really
preserve the opportunity to look at the new technologies
the new fuels Hydro.
the new fuels hydrogen renewable natural gas which are
going to depend upon the Gas Distribution Network these new
new technologies are going to reduce greenhouse gas
emissions and we need to make sure that what as we move
forward. We're preserving these options,
forward, we're preserving these options and so
so I truly urge the committee to keep the focus on Dakar.
decarbonization and not that binary yes or no gas.
electric.
Because I think you cheap.
Because I think you cheapen the argument you miss the
opportunity to do something.
opportunity to do something good for the people of Chicago.
That's very diverse. Very open-minded very forward-thinking
and new technologies. And so I urge you.
and new technologies. And so I urge you to instead embrace
the embrace the approach.
the embrace the approach of Ottoman viegas. Thank you very
much.
Thank you for your comment.
going
Going to recognize Alderman Reilly for the purposes of
quorum.
Our next speaker is Victor koves.
Good morning Council. My name is Victor. Kovaz. Thank you
for your time this morning.
I'm a 26 year old lifelong Chicago and CPS graduate renter
and a 40th award volunteer.
and a 40th award volunteer focusing on helping neighbors
with home electrification.
with home electrification and I speak to you today in
support of the clean and affordable.
support of the clean and affordable buildings ordinance,
which I firmly believe.
which I firmly believe ensures that new homes in Chicago
are healthier more affordable.
are healthier more affordable and Greener. I personally
worked with my landlord to switch to an electric stove
after using an air quality model reveal.
after using an air quality model revealed how much my gas
stove was polluting my home?
stove was polluting my home, but this is a privilege.
some Alders have
Some Alders have supported a resolution calling for a
committee to meet on decarbonization.
committee to meet on decarbonization and investigate the
cost of retrofits before we move forward with.
cost of retrofits before we move forward with these
efforts.
But Cabo specifically impact.
But Cabo specifically impacts only new construction. So
this isn't this doesn't make any sense. Nobody's existing
home would be at all affected.
As Alderman Vasquez had the opportunity.
As Alderman Vasquez had the opportunity to see personally
and as other Alders were invited to see.
and as other Alders were invited to see by his team all
electric new construction can be affordable up front.
electric new construction can be affordable upfront and
save homeowners hundreds to thousands of dollars.
save homeowners hundreds to thousands of dollars annually
in utility bills.
Illinois also has a majority clean electricity Supply with
a strong.
a strong share of emissions-free nuclear energy with state.
mandates for our grid to decarbonize further so concerns
mentioned about emissions from increased electricity use
are flat out incorp.
are flat out incorrect electric homes are already much more
energy.
energy, efficient and lower emissions and those built today
become.
become even more sustainable as the electric grid becomes
greener.
Greener while new gas burning homes will be polluting until
they are retrofitted or torn down.
brand new million-dollar homes have gone up in my community
that burn dirty natural gas costing them more money to
heat.
harming their residents and neighbors through increased
incidence.
incidence of asthma and other respiratory conditions.
harming us all through CO2 emissions and methane leaks.
harming us all through CO2 emissions and methane leaks that
lead to more climate chaos.
although some
Although some Alders advocate for more research the science
is already.
is already clear a delay is dangerous. We should not be
investing more in expensive hazardous.
investing more in expensive hazardous and outdated natural
gas infrastructure than each hundreds.
gas infrastructure than each hundreds of millions of
dollars to be modernized.
dollars to be modernized pollutes our communities and harms
our city and our country.
our city and our country in the long term.
Cabo is a starting point for us to turn the tide on our
fossil fuel use giving Chicagoans cleaner are cheaper
utility bills and a better future. Please pass Cabo. Thank
you.
Thank you for your comments.
Our final speaker today is Mr. George, Blakemore.
You know is well.
Help is well.
What about the car? You're talking about clean and afford?
affordable building or?
What about the car?
the the political games that these ultimate play
and it's about the money.
It's all about the money.
and the golden rule is
And the golden rule is he who has the gold rule?
So clean energy.
you know, I I I used to didn't believe in a
You know, I I I used to didn't believe in a a a climate
change.
a mother earth
A mother earth will teach you that?
Mother Earth will teach you better.
So it's very important.
For each 1 of you to make your decision. What about the
car?
It's about the money.
and these ultimate
And these ultimate also will sell you out.
for the money
so if you don't get this or
So if you don't get this ordinance is because of you.
these
These people you can't trust.
You didn't put them in.
Only 20% of the people in the city.
Only 20% of the people in the city of Chicago came out to
vote.
Why?
just
Just ask yourself. Why now? I see most of these people.
Just ask yourself. Why now? I see most of these people here
today are are white.
today. Are are white spoke.
Where are the black folks I can always?
Where are the black folks I can always pray the race car?
Is something evil here is something?
Is something evil here is something corrupt here?
we need a change not only with our
We need a change not only with our energy.
but with our Al
But what I alter.
They don't represent.
They don't represent you.
They'll say you out.
And we have a common system.
And we have a common system know all of my Democrat.
No 2 party system, no checking
health is wealth, but
health is wealth but money.
That's the issue.
That's the issue money common where everything and all
these things. They're about the money. They're not about
help.
So you got to make the decision?
So you got to make the decision you tell them what you want
them to do.
and most of you people here
And most of you people here are older people too. You got
to get the young ones invol.
to get the young ones involved.
You got to get.
You got to get and and uh, uh our community got to get
invovled.
You got to get and and our community got to get involved,
too.
the black community
so it's something evil here.
So it's something evil here, but they don't want to change.
But the change is going to come because Mother Earth.
But the change is going to come because mother earth going
to fight back.
and
And health is well.
thank you for
Thank you for your comments. Um the public comment period
Thank you for your comments. Um, the public comment period
has concluded I want to thank all of our public speakers.
today.
Um, I'd also like to note that our committee.
Um, I'd also like to note that our committee received 29
written public comments. Those written public comments have
been sent out to committee members V.
been sent out to committee members via email. Um, we've
also sent out today's committ.
also sent out today's committee materials via email to
members in advance.
members in advance of today's hearing.
Um, so uh, you're all still here. Everybody's still awake.
Um, so uh, you're all still here. Everybody's still awake
everybody ready? All right, um want to thank everybody for
being here today. So our first order of business is
actually our rule 45 report from November 6 2023, which was
sent out to the committee. Uh, could I have a motion to
approve the rule 45 report?
all
All the person on the spot us so moves all those in favor
of passing. Uh, the
of passing, uh, the resolution say I
all those opposed say nay
And the opinion of the chair of the eyes have it?
and the opinion of the chair of the eyes have it. Um, so
today we are here to discuss the clean and affordable
buildings ordinance or as you guys everyone should know how
what do we call it? What's our what's our short?
what do we call it? What's our what's our short version?
Go. All right, we're going to do.
Go. All right, we're going to do call and response
Committee hearing today guys. Um, so we're going to keep
ourselves going.
so, uh Cabo for short, so
So, uh Cabo for short so with our building stock making up.
Um, we heard this in some of our public comments about 70.
Um, we heard this in some of our public comments about 70%
of Chicago's emissions.
the proposed ordinance presents a real opportunity for
city to take its first incremental step, right? We're
talking about baby steps, uh to reduce our depend.
talking about baby steps, uh to reduce our dependency on
dirty harmful fossil fuels and help to create a more
resilient sustainable and clean future.
resilient sustainable and clean future, um for future
Chicagoans,
so as we enter today's hearing I want to make it clear that
what we are discussing, uh, again is a init.
what we are discussing, uh, again is a initial step, um
toward this future.
There has been an abundance of Des.
There has been an abundance of disinformation circulating,
uh on the airwaves and your mailers, um mailers.
uh on the airwaves and your mailers, um mailers that no 1
has claimed to pay for by the way. So as a note if anyone's
sending those mailers in this room you do have
sending those mailers in this room, you do have to say
who's sending them. Um,
Uh, I'm hoping today we can bring.
Uh, I'm hoping today we can bring some clarity, um to the
objectives of the Orden.
objectives of the ordinance what it's really proposing to
do how we got here.
do how we got here and of course what the future holds for
decarbonization efforts for the city of Chicago.
If passed Cabo would impact new construction.
If passed Cabo would impact new construction only and
additions that exceed 10,000 square.
additions that exceed 10,000 square feet.
So again, right?
So again, right we're addressing in this ordinance new
construction and addition.
construction and additions of over 10,000 square feet.
This ordinance does not require that existing buildings.
transition away from gas. It does not require that people
get rid of their gas stoves and it will not impact.
get rid of their gas stoves and it will not impact people's
gas System modernization project.
The ordinance would only impact.
The ordinance would only impact 0.5% of Chicago's building
stock. So that's less of 1% of our building.
Instead Cabo aims.
instead Cabo aims to restrict emissions in new construction
to know more than
to no more than 25 kg of carbon dioxide per million. Btu.
to no more than 25 kg of carbon dioxide per million BTUs.
while the ordinance would effectively
While the ordinance would effectively restrict fossil fuel
combustion and new buildings. It is written.
combustion and new buildings. It is written in a way that
is energy neutral which will open the door.
is energy neutral which will open the door leave the door
open to Innovation. So again as mentioned in public
comment, I think this is an important point we
comment, I think this is an important point. We don't know
what Innovations will will happen.
what Innovations will will happen in um gas technology or
energy technology and the next 5 to 10 years. Um, we don't
want to close the door to that. We don't want to put all of
our eggs in 1 basket and say we're committing ourselves.
our eggs in 1 basket and say we're committing ourselves
just to this 1 energy source, so that's why this
written to focus on the emissions. Um, so that we are
future thinking
cab
Cabo is the most effective way for Chicago to transition to
clean energy rain and dangerous emissions.
clean energy rain and dangerous emissions fueling our
climate change and to meet the city's climate.
outlined in our 2022 climate action plan.
once we pass Cabo Chicago will
Once we pass Cabo Chicago will join major cities Across the
Nation including New York.
Nation including New York, Los Angeles Boston and uh our
neighbor.
neighboring Oak Park that have already passed similar
legis.
legislation to create healthier and cleaner alternatives to
heating their buildings.
Not only does this.
Not only does this legislation create a cleaner future for
generations to come it also presents a unique opportunity
to expand.
to expand our green economy and create new jobs.
Chicago already has more than 12,000.
Chicago already has more than 12,000 workers, uh who are
working to make buildings cleaner and more energy
efficient.
with the passage of the
With the passage of the clean and Equitable jobs act along
with incentives.
with incentives and Biden's inflation reduction Act.
Chicago and the state of Illinois are poised to have 1 of
the most.
the most robust green economies in the nation.
This is something that we need to lean into.
I know there have been uh, there's been a lot of
about how this will Impact labor negative.
about how this will Impact labor negatively right how this
will take away jobs and we do
will take away jobs, and we do have Representatives here
from 4 labor unions joining us.
from 4 labor unions joining us today to share their
concerns their specific concerns.
concerns their specific concerns and feedback about the
ordinance to date.
but the
But the reality is that we are going to need people.
But the reality is that we are going to need people's gas,
right and and the people who work for.
Right and and the people who work for people's gas and do
that work on the Safety modernization project. We're going
to need people's gas for decades to come right? We're not
going to be able to snap our fingers and magically
transition off of a gas system.
But we need people's gas to continue to meet its legal
obligations of under.
obligations of undertaking all the work that is necessary
for safe reliable environmentally safe and affordable.
for safe reliable environmentally safe and affordable
provision of gas the customers in the city.
We also need people's gas in our labor represent.
be a partner in the transition to clean energy.
um in a report actually that Local 150 shared with this
body they stated, uh, they quote that the transition to
clean energy must be approached with caution to ensure grid
reliability safety and affordability.
I agree wholeheartedly.
I agree wholeheartedly with that sentiment and that goal.
any
Any conversion of our existing building stock will need to
be managed.
be managed, uh to ensure that it doesn't leave low-income
ear.
earners and workers behind.
For that we will need people.
For that we will need people's gas and labor at the
planning table.
And we've seen that partnership work in other places such
as in.
as in such as in Massachusetts where we have seen their gas
utility.
utility companies working on solutions that don't leave
work.
workers behind while also exploring altern.
workers behind while also exploring alternative clean
energy solutions for the future.
I want to appreciate Local 150 for identifying some
emergency and Technologies as potential.
emergency and Technologies as potential Avenues to explore
and the report that you shared there's a growing demand for
alternative clean energy and the incentives.
alternative clean energy and the incentives to develop and
Implement Clean Energy Solutions are expanding.
Cabo is just a tiny step.
Cabo is just a tiny step towards a cleaner future.
My Hope for today's hearing is to bring clarity about what
is actually being proposed and the actual impacts
I'm also here to call in our Energy Partners and labor
representatives to come to the planning table to ensure a
healthier cleaner.
healthier cleaner and more resilient future for all
Chicagoans beyond the passage of Cabo.
Um, I want to also reassure people we're going to spend
several hours.
several hours here today. Um, but this is not the last
conversation.
conversation that we're going to have about the ordinance.
Um, so I know that between the uh, mayor's office, uh,
department heads and my team, um, uh acting chairperson
Lawson of our zoning committee.
Lawson of our zoning committee, we've been able to meet
with a few stakeholders and we're going to continue to do
so, um, so know that if after this hearing there are still
questions if you felt like there are concerns that that
weren't brought to the table we are going to make sure to
provide more opportunities and I promise I won't make you
sit through a 5 hour Hearing in order to do it.
so with that I want to welcome our guests, uh who've taken
time out of their busy schedules to join us. Um, we do have
a really full pan.
a really full panel today. Um, so the for the purposes of
kind of flow, um, the way we're going to do this we've
broken the hearing up into 5 segments. So we're going to
start with City representatives and we'll have Q&A
go to ComEd. Um,
to ComEd um, and we'll have Q&A we'll have people's gas.
We'll have environmental proponents and then we'll have a
section on labor. So these are our 5 segments there will be
time for
be time for um older people to ask questions after each.
segment and uh again this
segment. And uh again, this is being recorded. We'll be
documenting as much as possible. Um, so if there are
questions that my colleagues if you can't stay for the
whole time if there's a particular segment,
whole time if there's a particular segment that you missed.
Um, please reach out to
um, please reach out to um my committee and we'll make sure
to get you answers.
Um, we will take a when we switch we'll have like a little
short recess as we kind of.
short recess as we kind of switch out and uh move people
around in the Box. Um, so you'll have time to get water
refresh your coffee.
refresh your coffee and such.
So following people's gas test.
So following people's gas testimony. We actually we will
recess for a 20 minute break. So people can grab food. I
just asked.
just ask that older people. Please return.
Come back.
Um because there will be more important.
Um because there will be more important people to also speak
and share their uh, share their thoughts. Um, so we'll
reconvene after that 20 minute break to hear from our final
guest again, who will be our environmental proponent.
guest again, who will be our environmental proponents and
our labor partners.
Um, so without further Ado joining us today from the city
we
We have Angela Tovar our chief sustainability officer and
our commiss.
our commission for the Department of environment.
We've got Grant.
We've got grant olrich our managing Deputy Commissioner for
the Department of buildings.
the Department of buildings Kate McMahon our director of
policy for the Department of Public.
policy for the Department of Public Health and Bridget
early our deputy mayor for labor relations.
Thank you all for being.
Thank you all for being here today and uh, please get
started.
And and chair. I also have a slide.
And and chair. I also have a slide deck, but I I will cue
you when it it's time. Okay, great. Thank you.
Um, good morning cheer Haden.
Um, good morning cheer Haden Vice chair, Ken the esteemed
members of the envir.
members of the Environmental Protection and energy
committee and our other esteemed.
committee and our other esteemed Alders. I want to thank
you for your this opportunity.
you for your this opportunity to testify on behalf of Mayor
Brendan.
Brendan Johnson and the City of Chicago at this important
hearing.
hearing today.
My name is Angela Tovar, and I'm the chief.
My name is Angela Tovar and I'm the chief sustainability
officer for the city of Chicago and the commission.
officer for the city of Chicago and the commissioner of the
newly restored Department of environment. I'm joined today
by my colleagues our deputy chief susd.
by my colleagues our deputy chief sustainability officer
and Deputy Commissioner Jared P.
and Deputy Commissioner Jared picho and our director of
climate and environmental.
climate and environmental justice initiatives Lindy
wardlaw.
We are also grateful to be joined by our city Partners at
the department.
the Department of Public Health. The mayor's office and the
department of buildings. With whom we work closely.
climate focused issue areas, including dcarbon.
climate focused issue areas, including decarbonization.
since 2020 this team of dedicated Services of servants has
worked collaboratively with numerous experts.
worked collaboratively with numerous experts Chicago and
with both technical expert.
with both technical expertise and lived experience to
carefully and thoughtfully devise strategies to drastically
lower.
lower our Reliance on fossil fuels in an effort to mitigate
climate change.
the burning of fossil fuels according to the US EP
The burning of fossil fuels according to the US EPA is the
largest source of greenhouse gas.
largest source of greenhouse gas emissions from human
activities in the United.
activities in the United States.
greenhouse gas emissions are warming the Earth's
temperature at a rapid pace, which is accelerating the
climate crisis that we all know today.
the damaging effects of climate
The damaging effects of climate change are happening now in
our city the
our city. The Dubai Department of environment has tracked
reports that tell us
tracked reports that tell us that the last decade has been
the hottest years.
hottest years on record including 2023.
Climate change is no longer an abstract concept.
Climate change is no longer an abstract concept already
climate change disrupts our daily.
climate change disrupts our daily lives and significant
ways in the past.
ways in the past year alone. We have witnessed here in
Chicago unprecedented levels of poor air quality for
several days.
several days due to the wildfires that ravaged through
Canada.
heavy downpours that cause catastrophic
heavy downpours that caused catastrophic basement flooding
and property damage for our Westside and far south side
residents sewage over.
residents sewage overflows contamination of local
waterways.
and the changing of Lake, Michigan water level.
and the changing of Lake Michigan water levels and
temperature which despite today's weather is a result of
our balmy winter, which could result
our balmy winter which could result in an increased
shoreline erosion property damage.
shoreline erosion property damage and the potential for
toxic algae blooms.
toxic algae blooms Chief Tovar. Yes, 1 quick note just as
we're driving the slides here. Um, if you can give us a
visual sign,
visual signal whenever you want us to advance, I'm gonna
this is just just to let you know. Thank you so much, um in
July of last year the city organized more than 100
residents.
residents to monitor temperature and humidity across the
city.
city as part of Noah's heat Watch program.
city as part of Noah's heat Watch program measuring across
all 77 communities the greatest temperature difference. We
observed during that day.
observed during that day was 22 degrees.
have shared over the years Chicagoans can have radically
different experiences with extreme heat and clim.
different experiences with extreme heat and climate.
and its harmful health effects on the
And its harmful health effects on the same day at the same
time.
while all Chicagoans directly experienced climate change
impacts our low-income communities and communities of color
experience the most and immediate and worst effects adding
to this climate Injustice these same populations bear the
least responsibility for emissions.
least responsibility for emissions and have gained the
least economically from the wasteful and polluting actions
that are driving climate.
that are driving climate change.
approaching the city's clim
Approaching the city's climate action and investment with
the lens of climate Justice.
the lens of climate Justice acknowledges this disparities
and prioritizes approaches the best address the needs of
our underserved communities.
In 2022 the city released its climate action plan.
In 2022 the city released its climate action plan our
roadmap to drastically lowering our Greenhouse.
roadmap to drastically lowering. Our greenhouse gas
emissions 62% by 2040 while delivering deep and Equitable
co-benefits that our communities need to thrive.
co-benefits that our communities need to thrive and now
I'll go into our presentation.
So, let's Dive In.
the city's own measure
The city's own measure of greenhouse gas emissions are
greenhouse gas.
greenhouse gas inventory tells us that almost 70% of our
ghd emissions comes from the built environment.
Given this reality. It's imperative.
Given this reality. It's imperative that Chicago buildings
and their operations play a leading.
and their operations play a leading role in our robust
climate strategy.
with that in mind the city of Chicago assembled a building
decarbonization project team in order to guide the
development of a set of actionable and equ.
development of a set of actionable and Equitable building
decarbonization policy and program.
decarbonization policy and program recommendations.
in alignment with our
In alignment with our 2022 climate action plan our building
strategy.
building strategy was developed through an equity lens to
ensure.
ensure that actions are coupled with solutions that work
for the good.
for the good of all Chicagoans across all 77 communities.
this includes
This includes improving the health the safety and comfort.
for all who work and live in Chicago.
Alleviating the energy burden for Chicago.
Alleviating the energy burden for Chicago and struggling
with high energy bills.
catalyzing Workforce and economic opportunities for
historically underserved communities and to create a path.
pathway for jobs for women and people of color who are
underrepresented in the trades and in the cond.
underrepresented in the trades and in the cond construction
industry more broadly and meeting Chicago's ambitious
climate targets.
As we have continued to research and advanced.
As we have continued to research and Advance both building
policies and decarbonization program.
policies and decarbonization programs in our city over the
course of the last few years.
course of the last few years a few more important truths
have become increasing.
have become increasingly impaired.
And underscore the importance of this work as I've already.
uh mentioned the ghg number the 70% of all greenhouse gas
emissions.
um alarming research continues to emerge about the
combustion of fossil fuels in and around buildings and its
negative Health consequences.
negative Health consequences something that my colleagues
at cdph will speak to shortly.
zero to and low emissions
Zero to and low emissions buildings can save residents and
developers money.
developers money by unlocking incentives and billion in
incentives that are in the billions now made available at
the federal level through the inflation reduction Act.
and then finally, well the Wisconsin based the
And then finally, well the Wisconsin based the parent
company to people's gas reports record.
company to people's gas reports record profits 20% a more
of residents.
of residents here in Chicago cannot afford to pay their
natural.
natural gas bills.
mayor
Mayor Johnson is committed to co-governance next slide,
please which is a value that he and his team share as a
best.
best practice.
We began our research back.
We began our research back by hosting sector specific
dialogues.
dialogues about challenges and opportunities tied to
building deck.
building decarbonization. We engaged hundreds of Chicagoans
in in a diverse set of
and in in a diverse set of sectors Community leaders
business owned.
business owners tenants developers housing.
leaders business owners tenants developers housing
developers Architects Workforce develop.
developers Architects Workforce developers and labor in the
process.
Following this Outreach. We created an open call for
stakeholders to form a working group convened by the city.
to conduct a more thorough examination of possib.
to conduct a more thorough examination of possibilities and
to provide their recommendation on strategies.
We also invited both UT.
We also invited both utilities people's and ComEd who sent
their respect.
their respective representatives to attend these meetings.
the Chicago building decarbonization policy working group
met over the course of several months the working group.
organized itself into 3 subgroups.
organized itself into 3 subgroups new construction existing
buildings and Financial.
existing buildings and financial programs technical
assistance.
assistance, which resulted in the Chicago building
decarbonization working.
decarbonization working group recommendations report.
the
The working group provided the city with a suite of 26 Rec.
recommendations the core recommendation coming from the
experts in new construction was the recommendation to
pursue adoption.
pursue adoption of new building codes to eliminate Foss.
fuel consumption while significantly reducing energy
consumption and supporting the development.
consumption and supporting the development of
high-performance buildings.
next slide
Chicago has a strong and exciting Legacy of leadership on.
climate forward building policies aimed at.
climate forward building policies aimed at reducing energy
consumption improving.
consumption and improving efficiency and reducing
emissions.
In 2012 Chicago debuted retrofit Chicago a volunt.
In 2012 Chicago debuted retrofit Chicago a voluntary
retrofit program that has had tremendous success.
retrofit program that has had tremendous success over the
years and providing support to building.
years and providing support to building owners who enroll
in the program and its 11-year history over a 100
Commercial.
Commercial higher education and affordable housing
buildings.
buildings have committed to the challenge for existing
buildings.
buildings, which has res reduced 40.
buildings, which has res reduced 404890 tons of green.
buildings, which has res reduced 404890 tons of greenhouse
gas emissions.
in the following year 2013 Chicago passed
In the following year 2013 Chicago passed the benchmarking
ordinance mandating that buildings over.
ordinance mandating that buildings over 50,000 square feet
began reporting.
began reporting their energy use
Pardon me, um the reporting.
Pardon me, um the reporting prop the reporting properties
represent 2.
represent 2,936 of the city's largest.
represent 2,936 of the city's largest buildings amounting
to 76.
to 768 million square feet of property.
between 2016 and 2021
Between 2016 and 2021 buildings required to comply with the
benchmarking ordinance Southern car.
benchmarking ordinance Southern carbon emissions per square
foot decreased by 37.
foot decreased by 37%
in 2022 the
In 2022, the the building's decarbonization working group
engaged.
engaged in the development of the report as mentioned on my
previous slide.
previous slide and although the working group concluded
over 2.
over 2 years ago the department of environment and the
department.
department of buildings work with stakeholders every day to
discuss opportunities and challenges related to the reports
findings and REM.
remains Eng
remains engaged in several coalitions works with many
technical partners and support Citywide programs that
Advance equitable.
Advance Equitable decarbonization in our built environment.
Also in 2022 this very body.
Also in 2022 this very body our city council passed the
energy transformation code.
energy transformation code making Chicago 1 of the first
major cities and the first city in Illinois to adopt.
major cities and the first city in Illinois to adopt and
exceed the 2021 edition of the international energy
conservation code a widely used model code.
unlike previous
Unlike previous energy codes which Focus exclusively on
reducing.
reducing building energy usage the energy transformation.
code also incentivized the types.
code also incentivized the types and energy sources that
will reduce green.
will reduce greenhouse gas emissions consistent with the
city's climate action.
city's climate action plan. This code requires the highest
efficiency.
efficiency standards and requires residences. Now with gas
fired appliances to be Electric.
fired appliances to be electric ready.
Finally in 2023. We celebrated the allocation of funding by
Mayor Johnson.
Mayor Johnson approved by city council for 20.
dollars in the FY 2024 budget.
dollars in the FY 2024 budget to support law the moderate
income dcarbon.
income decarbonization retrofits for existing 1 to 4
family.
and multi-family buildings recognizing our commit.
and multi-family buildings recognizing our commitment to
robust programs aimed at comprehensive.
robust programs aimed at comprehensive solutions to
mitigating the climate crisis.
mitigating the climate crisis will also ensuring that folks
have deep roots in their neighborhoods.
have deep roots in their neighborhoods and that they remain
in place.
I will now pivot to discuss key features of the clean and
affordable buildings ordinance.
the ordinance sets in an indoor emission standard
prohibiting the combustion of any substance.
prohibiting the combustion of any substance that emits 25
kilograms or more of carbon.
kilograms or more of carbon dioxide per billion B2 use
the combustion limit permits the use of zero or low.
The combustion limit permits the use of zero or low carbon
emission Technologies including building.
emission Technologies, including building electrification
while limiting the use of fossil fuel.
while limiting the use of fossil fuels and buildings and
additions to be clear. This is not a ban on any 1
technology.
technology, but it does limit the harm Global combustion.
fossil fuels will also leave in the door open.
fossil fuels will also leave in the door open to emerging
Technologies.
that
That are zero to low carbon that meet the standard.
building subject to the new ordinance are
Building subject to the new ordinance are any newly
constructed building single family?
constructed building single family multi-family commercial
Etc and any other major building addition?
I'll talk in Greater detail about how the major addition.
provision applies on the next slide.
the ordinance provides exceptions for
The ordinance provides exceptions for certain specialized
Technologies and systems.
Technologies and systems where fossil fuel combustion
remains critical
remaining Building Systems must comply with the emission
standard. However, I will name a few.
standard. However, I will name a few emergency backup power
industrial production.
industrial production including as part of a combined heat
and Power.
and power system serving industrial production res.
teaching Laboratories hospitals or Sim.
teaching Laboratories hospitals or similar health care
facilities and Commercial cooking.
facilities and Commercial cooking equipment.
next slide
and I want to make sure that we double-click on the major.
additions provision for a moment as this is VIs.
additions provision for a moment. As this is visual is an
easier way to demonstrate the type of addition that is
required to comply.
Cabo requires any building seeking a permit for an
that it increases the total building square footage.
that it increases the total building square footage of
conditioned floor area by the greater of 25% or 10,000
square feet.
square feet as you can see buildings would have to reach
both thresholds to be subject to this ordinance.
Next slide please.
Now that we have reviewed the ordinance details. I
like to share some key facts that I believe will help.
like to share some key facts that I believe will help clear
up certain basic details for Council. We share this
information in an effort to combat.
information in an effort to combat misinformation related
to the ordinance.
First and foremost Cabo does not impact existing natural.
First and foremost Cabo does not impact existing natural gas
infrastructure. How about only impacts?
infrastructure. How about only impacts new construction and
major additions which accounts for less than 0.5 of
Chicago's buildings.
Chicago's buildings and does not mandate owners of
existing.
unmodified buildings to change fossil.
unmodified buildings to change fossil fuel combustion in
their buildings second.
their buildings. Secondly Chicago's electric grid is ready
now.
now the amount of electricity Jenner
Now the amount of electricity generated in Northern
Illinois far exceeds the amount.
Illinois far exceeds the amount consumed which is why
of the electricity produced here.
of the electricity produced here is exported to other
markets.
80% of the electricity generated in our service to
from carbon-free sources and thanks to the clim.
from carbon-free sources and thanks to the climate and
Equitable jobs act or sea.
Equitable jobs act or sea Illinois's electric grid is on
track to be 100% clean by 2050.
K will later testify in Greater detail about this issue.
but now um know that we simply trust come.
we never simply trust ComEd or
We never simply trust ComEd or any other utility without
independently verifying.
independently verifying information related to grid
reliability and Capac.
reliability and capacity.
additionally he pump
Additionally, he pumps work in cold weather climate the
latest research.
latest research shows that even in extreme cold he
operate at more than twice the efficiency of Foss.
operate at more than twice the efficiency of fossil fuel or
electric resistance. He
electric resistance heating systems.
cold climate heat pump techn
Cold climate heat pump Technologies are tried and true the
state of Maine being the best.
state of Maine being the best case study. Not exactly a
balmy trop.
balmy tropical destination. They are leading the charge for
heat pump installations in Chicago surpassing its goal.
heat pump installations in Chicago surpassing its goal and
in Chicago in the United States. Pardon.
in Chicago in the United States. Pardon surpassing its goal
of installing a 100,000 heat pump.
of installing a 100,000 heat pumps 2 years ahead of
schedule and setting a new goal to install. 175,000 Heat.
pumps by 2027.
Finally fossil fuel buildings are affordable to construct.
and maintain a 2022 report by the Energy Futures group
finds that Chicago res.
finds that Chicago residents who live in newly build fossil
fuel free homes.
fuel free homes stand to say between 15,000 to 20,000
15,000 for multi-family to 20,000 for single family over a
20-year period compared to living in a newly built home
combusting fossil fuels
Next slide please.
Next I would like to focus on the magnitude of the moment.
that we are in as a country.
in August 2022 President Biden signed the inflation
reduction act or IRA into law it is
reduction act or IRA into law. It is the most significant
climate legislation.
climate legislation in US history. That is catalyzing deep.
Investments Nationwide and right here in Chicago.
Ira allocates 391 billion dollars to climate and
Ira allocates 391 billion dollars to climate environmental
justice and clean energy priorities through competitive
grants formula funding and tax.
grants formula funding and tax incentives.
Ira offers energy re
Ira offers Energy rebates and tax credits some geared
toward l
toward LMI households and others with no income limit.
toward LMI households and others with no income limit, um
restrictions for decarbonization techn.
restrictions for decarbonization Technologies and renewable
energy in our home and our business.
They've even open.
They've even opened up tracks credits to nonprofits and
government.
government entities through a program called direct pay
which the city of Chicago will be pursuing for our
investments.
investments in solar generation and electric vehicles.
Ira is expected to grow clean energy jobs.
Ira is expected to grow clean energy jobs in Illinois in
2021. They were 120,000 illinoisans employed in clean
energy.
energy jobs. This is expected to expand and as we reduce
emissions through our built environment.
emissions through our built environment and transportation
sectors IRA and emission reductions will result in cleaner
air for all of us.
air for all of us and the federal government anticip
these impacts will
These impacts will prevent premature deaths and up to
100,000 fewer. Asthma attacks in 2030.
Finally, I will end by stating.
Finally I will end by stating that Ira is aligned with the
city's commitment to upgrading.
city's commitment to upgrading affordable housing through
clean energy and res.
clean energy and resiliency measures.
I refund.
IRA funds support of a range of projects to ensure that
affordable.
affordable housing and residents are not left behind.
Funding through the inflation reduction act presents.
Funding through the inflation reduction act presents a
unique opportunity for our city. Our residents are small
business owners building owners and institutions.
business owners building owners and institutions to
maximize this funding.
maximize this funding in an effort to invest billions of
dollars.
dollars in our local economy to reinvest and bring new life
to our aging buildings Dock and to support good paying
green jobs here.
green jobs here at home.
Finally my last slide.
highlights the other important element of equitable
decarbonization
we as a city must also demonstrate our commitment to
We as a city must also demonstrate our commitment to
ensuring.
that
That we Advanced solutions for our built environment with
Pollock.
policies like Cabo for new construction.
policies like Cabo for new construction and programs to
alleviate the health and energy.
alleviate the health and energy burden that the ongoing
combustion of fossil fuels in our existing buildings
presents for Chicagoans. We are grateful for leadership and
programs throughout the city that are leading the way.
programs throughout the city that are leading the way and
driving Solutions at the community level.
programs that overcome barriers to ensure access
Programs that overcome barriers to ensure access so that all
Chicagoans can realize a clean.
all Chicagoans can realize a clean energy future.
The city is grateful to be.
The city is grateful to be in partnership with many on this
journey.
This includes the city of Chicago climate.
This includes the city of Chicago climate infrastructure
fund that is accelerating the Chicago.
fund that is accelerating the Chicago's transition to the
green economy by seeding climate project Citywide that
align with the 2022 camp.
19 comprehension are underway including
19 comprehension are underway, including full.
uh decarbonization projects Aid
Uh decarbonization projects aided them many that are being
led by black and brown.
led by black and brown faith and Community leaders on the
south and west side of the city.
This includes the program.
This includes the program led by this city of Chicago
Department of Housing.
Department of Housing that is working hand in hand with
affordable housing develop.
affordable housing developers and organizations to
distribute.
the 6 million dollars from multiph family
The 6 million dollars from multi-family and the soon-to-be
announced 1 to 4 family retrofit.
announced 1 to 4 family retrofit program for full
decarbonization and LMI households.
This also includes the blacks and green Tic-Tac a 10
million dollar Grant to the community organization based in
Woodland black.
Woodland blacks and green. Um from the US EPA to serve as a
thriving community's technical.
thriving community's technical assistance center to build
technical assistance.
technical assistance and support for nonprofit
organizations.
organizations, small businesses and Community institutions
that are navigating Ira locally and finally just last week
here in Chicago we
a million of dollars granted to awardees like Chicago based
organization POA to advance decarbonization projects and
retrofits in affordable.
retrofits in affordable housing.
HUD acting secretary adri
HUD acting secretary Adrian toddman made Chicago her first
visit in her new role to announce 173.8 million and new
grants and Loans awarded under its green resilient and
retrofit program.
I will con.
I will conclude with the following.
we're reminded every
We're reminded every day about the tremendous potential and
possib.
possibilities in front of us to accelerate the clean
energy.
transition here in Chicago.
Foss
fossil fuel free developments like the Salesforce Tower
Fossil fuel free developments like the Salesforce Tower and
the new Google Hub are already Rev.
the new Google Hub are already revitalizing our downtown
landscape.
at the community level we've witnessed the revitalization
of Mer major commercial corridors like 79 Street led by 548
Capital with whom you'll hear from later today. That is
using heat pumps high efficiency design and providing.
on-the-job training for local residents for the conversion
of a multi-family building and in the 22nd Ward where we
recently cut the ribbon on a net energy positive School.
healthhub that will anchor resources.
healthhub that will anchor resources and services for the
lair courts community.
Examples like these are emerging every day.
Examples like these are emerging every day and demonstrate
that eliminating fossil fuels is part.
that eliminating fossil fuels is part of a comprehensive
strategy to improve health.
strategy to improve health and the economic revitalization.
in communities that have been historically Des.
in communities that have been historically disinvested and
deserve more.
later today, you'll hear from a panel of our
Later today, you'll hear from a panel of our labor leaders.
Who will raise important concerns about?
Who will raise important concerns about decarbonization
broadly?
a just transition will be critical as we think be
and begin to deliberate our broader trans.
and begin to deliberate our broader transition away from
fossil fuels for existing.
fossil fuels for existing buildings.
the city of Chicago understand
The city of Chicago understands this fully which is why we
have been engaged in.
have been engaged in projects like the West Woodland
Community.
Community geothermal project funded by the US Department.
Community geothermal project funded by the US Department of
of energy and bringing together a host of Partners,
including the trades, which is designing a system that will
make Block Level geotherm.
make Block Level geothermal available and could potentially
be scaled to other communities.
It's my understanding that Geo.
It's my understanding that geothermal presents an exciting
opportunity for the trades. We hope to pursue additional
opportunities in.
opportunities in Partnership.
with our labor unions to ensure that our union jobs are
sustained and new opportunities are made readily available
for Chicago.
for Chicagoans to access the growing clean energy economy.
We as the city will also make a direct impact, uh request
to people's gas and wet energy your Wisconsin based parent
company.
demonstrate your commitment to ensuring the climate action
in Chicago is not
At the same time demonstrate your commitment.
At the same time demonstrate your commitment that concerns
regarding the future livelihood.
regarding the future livelihood of our labor partners are
addressed and the customers are protected and supported in
this transition.
and reviewing the climate report of the
And reviewing the climate report of the wac Energy Group
where decisions are made regarding people.
where decisions are made regarding people's gas. I read
about a commitment to adjust transition.
about a commitment to adjust transition for power plant
workers as the company incorporates.
workers as the company incorporates more Renewables and its
electricity generation business.
electricity generation business, but of note. I saw no
mention of your commitment.
mention of your commitment to a just transition for workers
here in Chicago.
here in Chicago on the dis delivery side or for customers
who will remain on the gas system.
May Johnson and his team stand at the ready when the company
is ready to talk about these issues.
company is ready to talk about these issues.
We ask for a true partnership with every Community leader
stakeholder group labor union.
stakeholder group labor union and utility partner following
the passage of cab.
the passage of Cabo to join together as we turn our
attention in.
attention in the future to the Equitable transition of
existing buildings doc.
to come
To come together. We must Embrace this set of truths. Clim.
climate change is real and we must take action.
the health and comfort of IND
The health and comfort of individuals in our built
environment is critical.
buildings are our largest source of emissions and
Buildings are our largest source of emissions and we must
advance decarbonization equitably.
advance decarbonization equitably and at scale and finally
pursuing.
pursuing all affordable and innovative solutions to support
utility customers trade workers and all of Chicago's 77
communities to ensure prosperity and a clean energy.
communities to ensure prosperity and a clean energy future
is Paramount.
Thank you.
Thank you for the opportunity to speak and I will turn it
back over to chair.
back over to chair Haden.
Thank you so much Chief Tovar.
We will now hear from Deputy Commissioner.
We will now hear from Deputy Commissioner Grant olrich from
the Department of buildings.
Good morning. I just barely get to say good morning. Um, my
name is granlei Rick. So, thank you.
name is granlei Rick. So thank you chair Haden. Thank you
members of the committee on Environmental Protection.
members of the committee on Environmental Protection and
energy. Uh, and thank you other members of the city council
for being here today for this important subject matter
hearing.
um first the department of buildings would like to thank
Um first the department of buildings would like to thank uh
commissioner Tovar first in her role.
commissioner Tovar first in her role as Chief
sustainability officer in the mayor's office and now
commissioner in the newly formed Department of the envir.
environment for the leadership role she is taking in in
convenience with to talk about how we
convenience with talk about how we meet the city's
decarbonization commitments through work with our
buildings.
buildings, um more than 20 years ago in in 2001 this
Council
with legislation brought by the old.
with legislation brought by the old Department of the
environment and the department of buildings adopted the
first energy code for Chicago. Uh, and we're
first energy code for Chicago, uh, and we're really excited
to continue on that work. Um the working group that you've
already heard about that met from 20000 in 2021 and 20
and actually had 3 of your colleagues.
and actually had 3 of your colleagues, uh, Alders laspada
Martin,
Martin and nent um, as well as as those other groups that
you heard about a really brought a diversity of ideas and
perspectives on how we work on this.
perspectives on how we work on this there were 26 consensus
recommendations in that report.
recommendations in that report about how we address the
climate crisis through our buildings.
climate crisis through our buildings and Cabo is really
following through on 1 of those recommend.
following through on 1 of those recommendations.
1 of the things that came out of that working group, maybe
even a little bit before the formal.
even a little bit before the formal report came out in
October 2022 was the energy transformation code, which
you've already heard about, uh, especially its provision
for residential electrification readiness.
for residential electrification Readiness. Um that was
discussed in the working group. It was a piece that
could move ahead further earlier than the full report came
out. Uh, and you did pass that in september of 2022. It
took effect January 1st of 202.
took effect January 1st of 2023. So it's been in fact for
permits for more than a year res.
permits for more than a year residential electrification
Readiness means that in new construction buildings or
non-residential.
non-residential buildings that are being converted to
residential if they are using gas.
residential if they are using gas for cooking or clothes
drying or for water heating in individual Apartments. They
need to also provide the electrical capacity and wiring at
the time of new construction.
the time of new construction to facilitate that and many
developers in in seeing those sort of double costs have
made the choice to not include the gas infrastruct.
made the choice to not include the gas infrastructure at
the time of construction, but that is what this Council
passed in.
2022 that's
2022 That's the Law today. Um, so in some ways.
2022 That's the Law today. Um, so in some ways Cabo is the
next reasonable step. It's not some.
next reasonable step. It's not some people have said it's
the first step. But this Council this is a
the first step but this Council this is a progression and I
think this Cabo is the next reasonable step.
think this Cabo is the next reasonable step towards
decarbonizing decarbonizing our buildings. It will adopt
requirements.
requirements not just sort of options but requirements for
new construction and major additions and that will continue
to build our necessary Technical and Workforce capacity.
success.
Take on this challenge.
Our City's leadership.
Our City's leadership on this issue will benefit not just
Chicagoans.
Chicagoans, but our entire region.
based on per
Based on permit data from The Last 5 Years. We estimate
that cab.
that Cabos requirements will impact at most
600 to 900 buildings per year
Why do I say?
Why do I say at most because as I already mentioned under?
the energy transformation code some buildings are more.
more buildings are choosing not to include things.
would.
require changes in Cabo and and many buildings even before
the energy transformation code were being built Cabo
compliant. Um, they don't rely on any prohibited indoor
cam.
combustion of fossil fuels you've already heard sales.
Tower, uh, recently built just a few blocks from here.
Tower, uh, recently built just a few blocks from your major
development, uh is a building that would be cab.
development, uh is a building that would be Cabo compliant,
but also a range of single family and multi.
but also a range of single family and multi family homes
being built throughout the Chicago and there are a number
of groups that can arrange tours of those buildings if you
want to see what 1 of those buildings looks like with uh
induction cooking.
induction cooking and and heat pumps, um their new
technologies, but it's not the Jetsons. They look like
normal homes, but uh, there are opportunities to take those
tours. So if you hadn't had the opportunity to do that, I
would encourage you to reach out to either myself or Angela
and we can connect you with a group who can arrange that.
um, so of those 600 to 900 buildings 90% of those are
Um, so of those 600 to 900 buildings 90% of those are
residential again based on our historical permitting
pattern.
patterns, and that would be between 4500.
patterns, and that would be between 4500 and 7500
residential units a year.
um
Um, the Census Bureau says that we have 1.1.
Um, the Census Bureau says that we have 1.13 households in
Chicago 1.13 million households in Chicago. So that's 1
half of 1% of those residential units, that would be
changing.
changing, uh every year if cab.
changing. Uh every year if Cabo were adopted.
when Cabos adopted
so other Witnesses today will will talk about the electric
grid and the workforce issues. But I think they will prove
that the electric grid and the work.
that the electric grid and the workforce is ready for this
incremental but critical change.
incremental but critical change in how we build new
construction buildings.
construction buildings those buildings that will be part of
the fabric of our city for the next 50.
the fabric of our city for the next 50 100.
even more years
more work still needs to be done as you've already heard.
more work still needs to be done as you've already heard to
find the solutions for what we do with our existing
building.
building stock and we're committed to working
collaboratively on find.
collaboratively on finding solutions for this challenge
with all of you with all of the partners.
with all of you with all of the partners you've heard from
and we'll hear from in this hearing today.
How about also recognizes certain?
How about also recognizes certain specialized applications
from emergency power to?
from emergency power to industrial production to research
Labs that don't?
Labs that don't yet have readily available commercialized
deck.
decarbonized Solutions and and so those exceptions
written in the ordinance based on both our look at legis.
legislation and other cities but also
3 plus years of conversations that we've had with Chicago
based stakeholders hearing what they think is reasonable.
based stakeholders hearing what they think is reasonable to
decarbonize today and what there just aren't the soul.
decarbonize today and what there just aren't the solutions
for yet. So those exceptions have been carefully draft.
for yet. So those exceptions have been carefully drafted to
that end.
and then the timing um, so Illinois Law already requires us
to reevaluate and strengthen our energy code in Chicago
every 3 years. We do this primarily by reference to the
National model energy code the international energy
conservation code.
That model code reflects the latest industry.
That model code reflects the latest industry consensus
about the feasibility and practicality of em.
Technologies and construction practices, but that's also
our opportunity to go a little bit above and beyond to
meet.
the city's climate commitments and and really are climate
and construction expertise that we have here.
and construction expertise that we have here our current
code as I already mentioned was adapted by the council in
2022, which means it will be up for reconsideration again,
just next year in 2025.
just next year in 2025, uh the timing in the draft version
of Cabo, that's
of Cabo that's been introduced, uh anticipates that if it
passes,
passes the spring or summer and provides 12 months of
notice.
notice, uh, that will be in line with that energy code upd.
update cycle coming in 2025, and we'll provide adequate
notice to designers developers and our skilled trades to
prepare for this change.
prepare for this change this gradual.
uh, but critical
Uh, but critical change to take effect in 2025 with in
alignment with that.
alignment with that energy code cycle. Thank you.
Thank you so much.
Thank you so much Grant.
Um, we're now going to hear from Kate McMahon from our
Department of Public Health.
Thanks Kate.
Since it is no longer.
Since it is no longer mourning. I will greet You by saying
hello?
my name is Kate McMahon, and I'm the director of policy for
the Chicago Department of Public Health.
Thank you chair.
Thank you chair haten and members of the committee on
Environmental.
Environmental Protection and energy and city council.
For inviting me to talk about the public health impacts.
related to this proposed ordinance.
I would also.
I would also like to extend my thanks to Chief
sustainability.
sustainability officer and commissioner tavar in her entire
team.
team for their leadership and partnership.
public health organizations recognize the links between
climate change and Health Equity.
and the urgent need
And the urgent need for action.
for example
the National Association of County and City Health offic
officials
and the American public health
and the American Public Health Association have strongly
urged local Health departments to partner across.
urged local Health departments to partner across government
and collaborate with community members.
and collaborate with community members to equitably prepare
for and respond.
for and respond to climate change and its impacts on human
health.
climate change
Climate change can drive many environmental threats such as
heat.
heat waves severe weather and increases in water and
vector-borne diseases.
the increasing magnitude of climate change poses
significant threats to human health
including both physical and mental health
and we know these threats.
and we know these threats disproportionately.
impact certain communities
public health organizations also recognize the links
between gas stove emissions air pollution.
between gas stove emissions air pollution and increased
risk of illness in children old.
risk of illness in children older adults and people with
underlying health conditions.
These impacts are compound.
These impacts are compounded in environmental justice
communities. Which over
communities, which overall bear a disproportionate burden
of chronic dis.
of chronic disease and environmental health threats.
public health organizations agree that supporting a
transition from fossil fuels to clean energy sources incl
including for gas stoves and other household appliances is
an evidence-based strategy to mitigate.
the impacts of climate change
Cabo is a first incremental step.
Cabo is a first incremental step and 1 of many strategies
that we must pursue.
that we must pursue to reduce emissions and improve IND.
and outdoor air quality for all Chicago.
and outdoor air quality for all Chicago communities.
and as we consider any policies
And as we consider any policies and strategies to improve
climate resilience.
climate resilience, it is essential to Center Health
Equity.
This means taking leadership from and centering the
perspectives of the most impact to communities.
And the organizations that work.
and the organizations that work directly with these
communities in addition to using evidence-based strategies.
C
cdph is committed to continuing our work with the
Department of environment.
other departments and
Other departments and Community Partners to do just that.
and to
And to work towards a just transition to clean energy
together.
in doing so we have the opportunity to
In doing so we have the opportunity to address related
Health disparities.
To make ourselves more resilient to climate change.
and to work together towards a more just
And to work together towards a more just Equitable and
healthy, Chicago.
Thank you so much Kate.
Um, we'll now hear from Bridget early our deputy mayor of
Um, we'll now hear from brigitt Earley our deputy mayor of
Labor.
Thank you. Uh, good afternoon. Thank you all uh, thank you
for holding this hearing today chairwoman and uh for
allowing me just a brief moment to uh, speak to the impact
on the workforce. Um, because I would like to highlight a
few things about this.
few things about this ordinance and how it intersects with
the changing top job.
the changing job market, um, especially because I see a lot
of faces in the audience that look a lot like my dad who's
a retired Construction
a retired construction worker and so I know how important
um, man hours are to the construction Workforce and I want
to make sure it's clear.
to make sure it's clear what this ordinance does in uh,
respect to the broader construction landscape, uh landsc
and so to start it is really important.
and so to start it is really important to note that what
this ordinance is doing.
this ordinance is doing is wholly separate from the,
November, Illinois.
November, Illinois Commerce commission's ruling regarding
the people's gas.
the people's gas case. Um, the Safety modernization project
is to replace 2,000 miles of pipeline. Um, which is that
currently service.
Is you know?
Is you know over 890,000 Chicago?
is you know over 890,000 Chicago customers, um that that
that work is still necessary and needed and and will be
man-hour that would continue this.
man-hour that would continue this as uh, Deputy
Commissioner.
Commissioner Eric mentioned earlier. This ordinance is only
impacting 609.
impacting 60900.
construction units in the city of Chicago of the 1.
Construction units in the city of Chicago of the 1.1, uh
million units that currently exists.
million units that currently exists and so if we were to do
very basic inac
Very basic inaccurate math here because the ordinance
doesn't actually manned.
doesn't actually mandate people to transition off of
people's.
people's gas. But if we were for example taking 800 units
off of people's gas.
off of people's gas current 100 current 890,000.
customers would take a thousand years to fully transition
off of the PE.
off of the PE off of a gas, uh, fossil fuel or natural.
off of the PE off of a gas, uh, fossil fuel or natural gas,
uh energy source, and so
with that in mind the pipeline work the field work done by
people's gas, uh gas worker.
people's gas, uh gas worker Union, uh represented workers.
Uh,
uh, the important work of the call center workers. That's
all going to be.
all going to be necessary and need to continue even as
we're making this very small transition. Um, also I would
like to note too that you know, we are not this is an
impacting.
impacting the existing customer.
uh quite a significantly as well because as mayor Johnson's
vision for a better safer stronger, Chicago incl
vision for a better safer stronger Chicago includes really
focusing in historically divested neighbor.
focusing in historically divested neighborhoods. And so we
are looking to put we want to revitalize areas that have
not had the same level of devel.
not had the same level of development, uh, that may be
traditional neighborhoods.
traditional neighborhoods have and so because of that, you
know, we are are are we going to see new customers coming
online?
online know but are we going to is that going to be
necessarily taking away from existing customers?
necessarily taking away from existing customers also know
because those customers don't exist in these vacant Lots,
um and spaces that exist in the device devest, um
neighborhood.
neighborhoods. Um, and so in addition,
neighborhoods, um, and so in addition because this isn't a
destabilizer to the current construction Workforce, we are
also in a very strong position, uh, because we're able to
Leverage The exist existing Workforce Development dollar.
at each level of government to ensure that there is a
runway for this Future Energy work.
so
So we know that the energy sector is going to continue to
create.
create more jobs according to the US Department of energy
energy energy jobs grew faster in 21 and 22.
energy energy jobs grew faster in 21 and 22 than overall us
employment and then coupled with sieges and IRAs historic
investment.
investment in Workforce Development and tax incent
tied to good labor practices offer an unprecedented
opportunity to ensure that the the
to ensure that the the transitioning to clean energy and
new buildings creates.
new buildings creates good paying union jobs.
Thank you so much.
Um, so before we proceed to our next segment, this is
concludes our first segment. Um, the floral now will be
open for committee members.
Or committ.
Or committee members and non-committee members, uh to ask
questions.
questions also want to recognize uh chair.
questions also want to recognize uh, chairwoman Dao, um as
a non-committee member who is present. Um, I have first on
stack, uh Alderman table
stack, uh Alderman tabaris and then I see laspada,
stack, uh Alderman tabaris and then I see laspada and
okay.
Okay, Diego Conway.
All right, we'll start with.
All right, we'll start with uh alveris. Yes.
Good afternoon. Thank you.
Good afternoon. Thank you so much for the presentation. Um,
I know labor is going to speak up later in the segment.
They're part of the segment, but I'm I'm curious. Um
because I have met with many labor unions about this
ordinance. Are they, um part of the
ordinance are they, um part of the planning meeting that
you have with the environment.
you have with the environmental lobbyists and um,
Other Advocates as well at the utilities and the City.
folks. Are they all part of the planning meetings?
the labor
the labor unions
Are you are you speaking?
Are you are you speaking to to you? Yes, the the building
dcarbon.
decarbonization working group has concluded. Um, that was a
a working group. That was
a working group that was convened around the development of
the report. Um, there was an open call and we did.
the report. Um, there was an open call and we did engage
labor unions in those early.
labor unions in those early conversations. We invited
folks. It was an open call to come back. Um, and we do to
continue to engage all stake.
continue to engage all stakeholders and when we have had
conversations with labor unions more recently. Yes, um
since you've taken over as the commissioner for the
Department,
Department of environment have you incl
Department of environment, have you included labor unions
part of the discussion?
I have had discussions with labor unions. I am not formally
convening a formal.
convening a formal working group on building
decarbonization right now. Um, that working group has
concluded and we have moved.
concluded and we have moved on um to engaging 1-on.
Coalition groups, um about the issue.
So so so I just want to make sure I'm hearing this
correctly. So
correctly So you you're having meetings since you've taken
commissioner. Um, who?
commissioner, um who who are part of those meetings weekly
meetings.
Meetings with groups groups invite us all the time. Uh, we
have had presentations for um,
Coalitions we've had presentations for advoc.
Coalitions we've had presentations for advocacy groups. We
spend quite a bit of time. Um,
spend quite a bit of time, um engaging with uh
professionals that reach out.
professionals that reach out to us to ask us questions
about dcarbon.
about decarbonization. We spend time with Community
organizations.
organizations that invite us to their Coalition meetings.
Um lab
um labor has requested meetings, and we've had meetings
with them as well. Um, but we are not formally convening a
working group right now.
Well, I strongly suggest.
Well, I strongly suggest that you do reconvene a working
group with everybody.
group with everybody and include labor because I've had
received many concerns from various labor unions.
received many concerns from various labor unions such as
Local 150 the pipe fitters.
Local 150 the pipe fitters the gas workers their input
their feedback to this decarbonization is very important.
Um, we need to hear they need to be part of your working
group.
group and your uh weekly meetings.
group and your uh, weekly meetings their intent. They're
they're very their input and feedback.
they're very they're input and feedback need to be so I I I
I I want to can we get a commitment from you?
I I want to can we get a commitment from you that you will
have them included?
have them included. Can I make a point of clarification? I
I think uh, the commissioner has said that she does not
have any weekly meetings. And so I think uh, if you want to
clarify your question, there's a question for her to
are you asking her to commit to a new working group?
you asking her to meet with labor? Um because I think
has clearly stated there is no like the
has clearly stated. There is no like the working group
concluded.
In 2022. Um, so if you can clarify your question for her.
I think it's important. I mean in your remarks you
mentioned that.
mentioned that it's important to sustain union jobs. So
how are we going to sustain union jobs with this ordinance?
yes, so if in in the end of my remarks I also made a
commitment to further working groups about decarbonization
Broad.
broadly. So this is a ordinance about new.
broadly. So this is a ordinance about new construction,
which does not impact any existing.
which does not impact any existing natural gas hookups.
However, we do have our sights set on ensuring that we
expand.
expand decarbonization policy broadly. That is a
conversation.
conversation that is going to require many stakeholders and
we intend to to build a diverse working group that includes
labor.
labor in those conversations and in addition to
labor in those conversations. And in addition to that. I
think it's important that we work with our utility.
think it's important that we work with our Utility Partners
as well to ensure that we think about just transition
principles. So if that's the question, yes, absolutely. I
agree with you.
another uh question that I that I want to another topic of
a concern is the cost. I know this.
a concern is the cost. I know this is going to impact new
buildings moving forward.
But can you help me?
But can you help me understand the cost shift?
for existing customers
Who can't go Electric?
How how are they going to bear the cost?
How how are they going to bear the cost for this?
because
help help me understand.
help me understand that.
I can I can begin and then um, would you like to join in?
Okay. Um, so I would I would also mention that in my
testimony. That is a
testimony that is a request that we've asked of our Utility
Partners as well. Um, so again right now we're focused on
new construction when we think about dcarbon
new construction when we think about decarbonization
broadly and we think about that transition across the city
you are correct that is going to be critical and that is
the conversation that we need to have and would be part of
a just transition strategy that has to be invented in in
when we start.
when we start discussing existing buildings. Um that has to
be part of the conversation as well. So that was
that I I share um your concern with and and need to ensure
um that we work together, I think
um that we work together. I think that those are shared
values by many people in this room. So as of right now, we
don't have a definite answer if they're going to be paying
more. Well this ordinance
more. Well, this ordinance is focused on new construction.
But there has to be some impact on on those.
But there has to be some impact on on those who can't go
electric though. I mean help me understand.
electric though. I mean help me understand that. Yeah more.
money who can't buy an electric stove or and and just make
sure uh Jared if you're going to introduce yourself. Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely. Thanks.
Yeah. Absolutely. Thanks chair. Yeah, uh, thanks for the
question Alder.
know as the commissioner stated given that
ordinance um, only
company the cities participating and that's just you know,
the tip of the ice.
the tip of the iceberg and and they're going to be looking
at uh, the questions that you're asking regarding how
existing customers be affected if the city and or the state
were were to choose to uh transition away from from natural
gas for those that use it.
gas for those that use it now like, you know, those who use
it now, which is not what Cabo is about and our offer just
clarification on that too because I think I mentioned it
also in my opening remarks and I want to be very clear.
because this is a long hearing I I want to make sure we're
not getting the same questions over and over again.
we are that everyone walks away from here with clear
information.
information as shared just mentioned.
information as shared just mentioned, um, while this is
part of a conversation and I think everyone's Minds rightly
go to a next step of well if we're looking at new
construction,
construction right having these emissions standards that's
going to mean building electrification.
What does that mean if people?
What does that mean if people who are not in new buildings?
want to transition so when we talk about a man?
transition or a transition away from fossil?
transition or a transition away from fossil fuels that's a
very big conversation and that is not what Cabo is actually
doing. That's a different.
doing that's a different step. So I think these really
important questions.
important questions about cost shift burden shift. Um, what
people's gas has been kind of putting out there in the in
the air has been they're
To take away your gas stove everybody that's left on gas is
going to pay more. Um, I hope that we when we hear from
people's gas today that they'll actually be able to share
information with us to maybe answer some of your questions.
alderwoman, but right now what's proposed in
alderwoman. But right now what's proposed in Cabo has
nothing to do with that people's gas is Ari,
nothing to do with that people's gas is revenue base is
going to stay the same, um their revenue
going to stay the same. Um, their revenue base is not
changing. So it is up to them on how they spend their
money. Um, so we're not looking at any increases to rate
payers in this case.
payers in this case because this will not change their
revenue base.
revenue base now when we maybe get to contemplate some
other legislation, which we do not currently have so when
we talk about like, um, Alderman vasas piece about a new
working group, I think we should have a new working group.
on what a just transition looks like on what deconversion
looks like on what we're going to do with these Federal
resources, but I just want to be clear we're not there yet.
And so if you're not getting answers to some of these
questions, you're just ahead of the game.
this legis
This legislation wouldn't have an impact in that way yet.
And then my final question has to do.
And then my final question has to do with the health. Um
You know there there has been the reasoning to do.
you know there there has been the reasoning to do this to
carbonization ordinances because there are some health
concerns, um, and this will be in new construction.
Can you help me?
Can you help me understand?
Why?
Why restaurants are not included. I mean you have work.
who are working in the kitchen more than 12 hours a day.
who are working in the kitchen more than 12 hours a day
with stove on cooking or food when we go to restaurants.
Can you help me understand how?
Can you help me understand how how they're not impacted on
this as well?
Thank you for the question. Um Alderman with respect to my
expertise. I can share what Public Health.
expertise. I can share what public health organizations
know about the health harms with respect to um, why?
uh certain group
Uh certain groups are not included. I would have to defer
to others and their expertise. Um, we know that burning
gas.
Jenner
generates a number of harmful pollutants, uh, including
Nitro
nitrogen dioxide particulate matter car.
nitrogen dioxide particulate matter carbon monoxide and
based on that evidence.
based on that evidence public health organizations have
recognized that they're a public.
recognized that they're a public health concern.
foot restaurants are not
impacted
workers
in the kitchen
So so I'll speak to.
so so I'll speak to uh, I think if you have a a home
kitchen and you know, you probably have a hood it might
exhaust the outdoors, but many ESP.
exhaust the outdoors, but many especially in apartments are
recirculating hoods. They suck in some of that pollution
and just clean try to clean that are
and just clean try to clean that air and recirculate in
living space in a commercial kitchen. They cannot have that
type of
exhaust techn
Exhaust technology, so they have much more robust exhaust
system that's maintained.
system that's maintained much more. So there's a number of
sort of workplace applications.
sort of workplace applications of combustion of fossil
fuels that are still allowed, uh, because in our
conversations with stake,
conversations with stakeholders in developing this
ordinance that we put forward that Mayor Johnson put
forward there was not yet the readily available
Technologies. Whereas for home cooking.
Technologies. Whereas for home cooking there are both
conventional Electric.
conventional electric and also induction electric cooking
technologies that are equal to or better than gas cooking
for.
for domestic applications.
Thank you. I know this is just a subject matter here in but
I strongly oppose.
I strongly oppose this ordinance. Um and labor really needs
to be at the table.
When we're having these discussions.
When we're having these discussions so I won't be supporting
this. I know this is subject matter hear.
Thank you. Thank you order woman, uh older person.
Thank you so much. Terry really grateful to be.
Thank you so much. Terry really grateful to be in this.
space with you all um
Space with you all um in part because I I'll personally
testify to 2 things.
testify to 2 things, but it was so interesting to see the
resolution.
resolution calling for a working group on this.
resolution calling for a working group on this, uh, as
someone who actually participated in that working group.
over the course of a year and a half which was preceded.
over the course of a year and a half which was preceded by
stakeholder meetings 1 of which was held in the First Ward
if and it's not
Secret so there there's no need for.
secret so there there's no need for anyone interested to
foil this information. Um, if you go to Google and you type
in Chicago building decarbonization working group, you can
find a list of everyone who participated
you can find all of the times that they met.
you can find all of the times that they met you can just
look through the policy recommend.
look through the policy recommendations that they put
forward to really great.
forward to really great relatively quick read and it's so
interesting to talk about Labor as well because there were
labor organizations.
labor organizations at the table IBEW participate.
networking group higher 360 participating in networking
group as you mentioned. There was a broad
group. As you mentioned. There was a broad call. There's a
lot of people who participate in networking.
lot of people who participate in networking group who were
deeply supportive of dcarbon.
deeply supportive of decarbonization. There are those who
participated who were skeptical.
participated who were skeptical and I I think that was what
made it a very productive space is that we really did have
all sides of viewpoints represented their
And I also say even though as we noted we are not talking
about.
about retrofitting. We're not talking about the building
energy.
energy performance standards if we're talking about.
energy performance standards if we're talking about what an
electric household looks like I can.
electric household looks like I can speak to that from
personal experience as someone who moved in October is in
the middle of that retrofit.
the middle of that retrofitting process whose alternating
moved Electric.
moved Electric in our working in our living space.
I love it. I I love knowing.
I love it. I I love knowing that I'm not exposing my
daughter to higher.
daughter to higher risks for asthma. I love that we have.
stove in an oven that she cannot burn herself.
stove in an oven that she cannot burn herself when we went
to a friend's place for Easter dinner and I saw how easily
she could reach the knobs on their range. I was very very
glad that we made the deck.
glad that we made the decisions that we did.
And I will say it makes me even more.
And I will say it makes me even more frustrated when we see
again the misinformation that's being.
again the misinformation that's being put out there around
the cost of this work.
the cost of this work 60 to 75,000. Some folks are saying
it is.
it is bizarrely inflated over what my personal experience
has been and open.
has been and open information invitation is out there if
you want to come to the laspata house, I'm glad to show
you.
you, uh, the work that we've gotten done and what we're
going with.
going with next.
But I just want to ask.
But I just want to ask a a couple.
quick questions based off of data from the Rocky Mountain
Institute their analysis on data from RS means construction
data.
So what?
So what they were talking about The Upfront cost so like
new construction of a mixed fuel home.
doing natural gas installation doing
Doing natural gas installation doing electric versus all
electric and they looked at.
electric and they looked at Austin Boston.
electric and they looked at Austin Boston Columbus Denver,
Eugene, Las Vegas Minneapolis new
Eugene, Las Vegas Minneapolis, New York, and then Seattle
in every single 1.
every single 1 of those cities. It was less expensive.
every single 1 of those cities. It was less expensive to
build in all electric home.
build in all electric home than it was a mixed fuel home. I
don't
mean to be physic, but does it stand to reason it would
also be less expensive to build in all electric home in
Chicago versus a mixed.
Chicago versus a mixed fuel home.
You want to answer that 1?
So that that's what we've seen in the reports.
So that that's what we've seen in the reports that are out
there. We're also working right now.
there. We're also working right now, uh, and and maybe
Jared or Angela can speak to this a little more detail to
get an updated.
get an updated specific Chicago specific report to confirm
that but yes all of the National Data and all of the
slightly older.
slightly older, uh, Chicago data does support that
conclusion.
I I can't know the only thing I was going to quickly add
alderman.
Alderman again Jared Pica the the deputy in the department
of environment is that we are working on an updated
analysis with um some technical experts. Um, just because
utility both utilities had very large rate cases that
changed their rate their rates, uh over the past year. We
just wanted to make sure that um, we had the most up-to
up-to-date information. Um, that should be ready soon, but
up-to-date information. Um, that should be ready soon. But
but as Grant said nothing that we've seen in existing
reports, um shows that Chicago's any different from all of
those other cities that you list.
those other cities that you listed. Yeah. I appreciate it.
I feel like it every time we have a housing committee
meeting a finance committee meeting.
meeting a finance committee meeting we're talking about the
the high cost of development.
the the high cost of development in the city the need for
more housing Supply.
housing Supply it it strikes me that from a policy
perspective. It makes sense to pass policies that reduce
the cost of construction. Um, but
not only on the building side on the operating side.
Going through that list again. I hate to but let's talk
about that like Austin Boston Columbus Denver, Eugene, Las
Vegas Minn.
Vegas, Minneapolis, New York Seattle every 1 of those.
cities also saw a lower.
cities also saw a lower annual operating cost.
for all electric versus mixed fuel
and I know
And I know we've received mailers saying other.
And I know we've received mailers saying otherwise, but as
it stands to reason.
if in every other city with a variety of climates that it
cost less to have an all-electric home that it might also
Cost Less.
cost less of an all-electric home in Chicago.
Yes. Yes, that is the case. Um and
Yes. Yes that is the case. Um, and we can point you not
only to the research that you have in front of you. Um, but
we can also um provide through the chair if you'd like the
Energy Futures report which makes that case as well and a
quick pause Al
quick pause ottoman laspada, uh, ottoman Vegas had a point
of information. Thank you. Can she talk about are the
building codes the same?
building codes the same in those cities with this? Um,
Austin,
Austin Boston,
The other cities which Chicago just curious.
The other cities which Chicago just curious I want to make
sure with apples and apples.
Okay.
Yeah, I I I think there's a variety of codes in a variety
of places and a variety of climates. So I think you know in
looking at that Denver as a slight.
looking at that Denver as a slightly milder climate than
us, but about the same, New York.
us, but about the same New York City about the same climate
as us so, um certainly in looking at that, but that's why
we are working with the third party group to get an updated
Chicago specific report to also take into account Chicago
utility rates.
So was that yes or no the codes.
So was that yes or no the codes the same or no? Sorry.
That's what I I think his his response was. Um, all the
cities listed have variations in climate.
cities listed have variations in climate both in code, but
that is also uh, Denver and NYC are the most similar and
that's also why they're working.
that's also why they're working on an updated thing. That's
just for Chicago.
just for Chicago and can it like to speak into that?
Well, the point I'm making is.
I'll cross a variety of building codes across.
I'll cross a variety of building codes across a variety of
climates. There is not a city.
climates. There is not a city where a higher construction
cost was exper.
cost was experienced.
for all electric versus
For all electric versus mixed fuel. There was not a city.
Where a higher.
where a higher operating cost was experienced for all
electric.
electric versus mixed fuel. So when we
when we take that into
When we take that into account when we take into account
the health benefits.
the health benefits and the fact is 1 of our speakers Did
we owe it to our generation? And
we owe it to our generation and the generations that we're
raising to to not only as our chief sustainability officer.
said to act but to act with
urgency and immediacy and I would say comprehensive action.
Um that speaks into why I wholehearted.
um that speaks into why I wholeheartedly support this
ordinance myself. Thank you chair.
Thank you so much. Uh, I'm going to go to uh Alderman viegas
and then I know we have Alderman Hall.
and then I know we have Alderman Hall on Zoom will be next.
So just that's a queue up.
So just that's a queue up for Alderman Hall. You're after
Alderman vagus.
Uh, thank you madam.
Uh, thank you madam chair.
Um
and
And the panel comment on the the ber.
and the panel comment on the the Berkeley case, you know
the lawsuit.
the lawsuit in Berkeley. Um
That in essence repealed the US.
That in essence repealed the US the first US cities natural
gas ban.
on then subsequently the ninth circuit
that um
validated by 80% Um
the natural gas ban
and I would also ask what if you could answer that 1 first.
Berkeley.
Good.
Good afternoon, Ray Phillips Santos on behalf of the city
of Chicago's Department of Law. Thank you for the question,
Alderman, Jas.
Alderman Jas. Um
the Department of Law
would be happy to talk to you in.
would be happy to talk to you in a different setting
regarding. Um any legal questions. Yeah. Okay, and then um,
if we could also talk about New York's current lawsuit as
well, um, which is what the uh ordinance my understanding
is based on the language based on the
only from the chief sustainability officer that
Only from the chief sustainability officer that the
ordinance that we propose mayor New York and currently, New
York.
York is in litigation. So I just wanted to ask about
we can talk about that in private if you like.
so, um, my colleague is asking a question, you might
So, um, my colleague is asking a question. You might sure
you can if you want to clarify for other committee members
what you're referring.
what you're referring to. Thank you. Um, thank you.
was that
oh, thank you madam. Uh, thank you madam chair.
Chairwoman Dao. Um
so a few years back, Berkeley, California
Oh, I serious.
Oh, I seriously. So what I'll do is this I'll send you the
Artic.
article that I'll send everyone here the article that talks
about how Berkeley was required to.
about how Berkeley was required to repeal the natural gas
ban law that they passed because they were they're exempt.
I'm sorry. They the preempted under under federal law.
so so the the basis for the New York lawsuit, um is based
on the the lower emissions and the language that proposed
that the language that talks to Banning natural gas without
basically saying Banning natural gas and I know and I'll
say um to add to uh, ottoman V at this point, uh, uh, Alder
Alderman, Dal. Um, so
Alderman Dal. Um, so both lawsuits are attempting to look
at uh, uh the federal exemptions for energy preemption. So
they're claiming that it's a natural gas ban.
1 is right. So the Berkeley 1 is a natural gas ban the New
York.
York is not a natural gas ban. Um neither is ours. So, um
the outcome of that lawsuit is yet to be determined. I'll
also say some are talking about New York. They also created
I think more than 12,000 new jobs.
I think more than 12,000 new jobs, um from their um,
passing theirs, but we'll um, uh, I know we'll have some
people a little bit later.
people a little bit later as well. Um, and the kind of
Coalition and supporting this who will speak who may have a
bit more to speak.
bit more to speak to those those things.
um, but if you want to continue
Um, but if you want to continue, thank you madam chair.
um
So I want to start off by.
so I want to start off by I've said it before and I'll
continue to say it not a
continue to say it not opposed to decarbonization. I just
think we need to be responsible.
think we need to be responsible and how we move forward
with it.
Um
and taking a look at
the creation of a working group which takes into account
both proponents and the opponents and not and just really
Both proponents and the opponents and not and just really
starting over because we know that the language.
starting over because we know that the language that's
currently been posed in the ordinance.
Is under litigation right now in New York and so why would
we?
we want to try to massage that we could just start over and
and and put ourselves in a position to have a strong
ordinance that the point of clarification?
ordinance that the point of clarification there. Do you
know who's bringing the lawsuit in, New York?
Uh, I think it's labor right now. Okay. Yeah, right and so
um,
jobs created mean
Jobs created means there's jobs lost in other things. So
it's I'm not sure what the net.
it's I'm not sure what the net gain is. Um, but I know that
uh when we create
uh, when we create jobs and electricity by betting Natural
Gas
gas, there's going to be jobs loss on the other side as
well.
um
So there's been a couple of meetings.
so there's been a couple of meetings that
give me pause as as an alder.
Give me pause as as an alderman because there's um been
some reports that have been.
some reports that have been discussed and I'm I'm going to
share these with everyone electron.
share these with everyone electronically.
There's a lot of data in here ton of dat.
There's a lot of data in here ton of data and I've gotten
too smart on natural gas. I've learned a lot more than I
wanted to around natural.
wanted to around natural gas and electricity. Um,
but I think these reports are are very
enlightening and I think that it's incumbent that um, we
have some somebody from the administr.
have some somebody from the administration take a look at
it analyze it so that way we can take making make sure that
um,
That we're taking into consideration everything into
consideration for clarification. I know you held up 2
reports. I just want for everybody who couldn't say.
reports. I just want for everybody who couldn't say 1 was
this the um report that local 15.
this the um report that Local 150 shared earlier in the
week. Did you name the report? So 1 is a jobs and Equity
jobs and equitable.
jobs and Equitable energy transition study, which was done
by B.
by BW research partnership December 2022.
by BW research partnership December 2022, and then another
1 is uh report called IL
And it was a project. I'm sorry, um report that was done in
January 9th.
January 9th of 2023. And again, they're very voluminous. So
I have I can have not looked at all of it.
I have I can have not looked at all of it because it's a
lot of reading. Um, but there's a lot of information here,
so,
So I have some people there looking at it try to make it.
easier for us council members to get us our Cliff Notes
versions. Yeah exact.
versions. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. This is way way too too, uh
too much information.
um
have are you familiar with these reports?
And I do not believe so no.
And I do not believe so. No, but I I would be happy to to
take a copy and to review.
take a copy and to review them and to provide feedback.
I'll make sure I get them through the chair so that way.
I'll make sure I get them through the chair so that way we
can um, we can all take a look at it.
Um
but the
the comment disadvantaged Community study, uh
with ComEd recognizes the fact that there's a disconnect
between Des.
between disadvantaged communities and calmed and it
outlines that those involved with drafting negotiating
essay.
essay did not take into account race or income in the
equity invest.
equity investment eligible Community study as other states
do
Do I think that's an important concept? Um, especially when
a city that's made up of over 66%
African-American Latinos Asians
to have a a question yet for the we're getting there. I'm
I'm gonna get you a question. Well I have
questions about like 5 to today. I just want to make sure
your questions are going to the right. Absolutely. We're
going to get there.
So we've said before we'll say it again the administration
wants.
wants to work wants 1 year from now.
Have all the new construction heated by electricity.
Um, and I'm concerned.
Um, and I'm concerned that as my colleague representative
asked.
asked earlier around the the exemption of
natural gas and restaurants and basically it's because of
the Berkeley lawsuit that we're not including that in a
language.
and this ordinance
so I just need a commitment from the administration that
that we're going to put together a working group a real
working group.
Um that takes into account the proponents and the
opponents.
um
because there's been
a lot of comments on both sides, I've
A lot of comments on both sides. I've heard that uh, you
know
Benzene the natural gas creates Benzene and creates cancer.
Um
asthma
And there's a lot of studies that are out there that that
debunk.
debunk some of this some of these claims and so I just want
to make sure that the same way that the opposition is
talking.
talking about taking away stoves that we're not putting
ourselves in this position.
ourselves in this position where we're um,
using these extreme examples, uh, when in fact we want to
get to a point where we're decarbonizing but we're doing
it in a responsible manner, uh and taking into
consideration. So when when we're talking about
So when when we're talking about, you know, the new the
ordinance and and it's
the new the ordinance and and it's just specifically on new
construction and large additions. I keep hearing over that.
It's 1% of the
it's 1% of the housing stock or the commissioner said half
a percent today, so it gets lower and lower but um,
a percent today so it gets lower and lower. But um, I think
we normally say less than 1% Okay, we'll say less.
we normally say less than 1% Okay, we'll say less than 1%
But if you take a look in the city right now.
But if you take a look in the city right now, um, we we are
we have 3 cranes in the sky.
we have 3 cranes in the sky and we're going to have 1 more
additional crane. So we'll have 4
um, so when we're talking about development
like we need to get development here. And so if it's
Like we need to get development here. And so if it's a
combination, um of uh, whatever energy sources is utilized
to to
um provide energy for their for the end user. I think we
should be looking at all develop.
should be looking at all development. And I think that's
that's my concern right now because you're you're saying
all 100%
Not 1% you're saying 100% of all new construction has.
not 1% you're saying 100% of all new construction has to
abide by that ordinance now if we were to take a look at
abide by that ordinance. Now if we were to take a look at a
smaller percentage.
smaller percentage then and phase it in and pilot it. I
think that's where I think you would get.
think that's where I think you would get some Buy in but
when you're talking about 100%
Which accounts for 1 less than 1% of the housing stock, I
think.
think that's it's it's it misleads us because it's 100% of
new.
new construction and not 1% of new construction.
if you
If you if you allow me because I want I want to make sure
we're understanding the concern. I'm hearing you. Um, ask
and I know these might be questions that they don't have
answers for today. Um, I'm hearing you asked. Um,
answers for today. Um, I'm hearing you asked um that you
need some help and maybe other council members need some
help.
help in Discerning. What information is
real
Um right that hey there are some competing reports out
here. It's unclear. Um, you know, I mentioned the
kind of fake news, uh being put out about the legislation.
and you want to make sure that we've got clear information.
So I think um, especially through the committee. I'm sure
we can work with the Departments and and make sure we get
um, you know,
um, you know robust information. I believe they have
provided some but we can make sure we give you like really
good list of studies make sure there are sources
that when people are evaluating and making their deck
that when people are evaluating and making their decision
you you can feel more confident.
you you can feel more confident and kind of the information
that's out there certainly. Um, and I do just want to
reiterate that this is our
first or subject matter hearing on this and um, you know,
I've committed and I know all the groups that I've met with
I've committed to continuing these conversations.
I've committed to continuing these conversations, right? We
want to make sure that we get everyone up to speed so that
we have agreement on I think the the sources of information
that we're using. Yeah, um, and so that we can, you know,
kind of hear people's real concerns.
kind of hear people's real concerns about the actual
impacts of this legislation.
impacts of this legislation so that we're not focusing on
you know legislation that's not proposed impacts that
aren't going to be connected to that. Um, so I just want to
clarify that I I hear you saying you want some of that
information and then again just because I have almost every
single 1 of your colleagues lined up to ask a question
after you I'll ask you to continue know I'm I'm going to be
you asked me a question about who brought the lawsuit I
wanted to so Association of Contracting plumbers of city of
New York.
New York Plumbing Heating Cooling contractors National
assoc.
Association Plumbers Local Union 1 United Association of
Journeymen and apprentices of the plumbing.
and pipe f
And pipe fitting industry the United States of America and
Canada new.
Canada New York State energy Coalition the plumbing
Foundation.
Foundation city of New York licensed Plumbing Association
of New York.
of New York Masters plumbers Council of city of New York.
And the building industry Association of New York. So those
are thank you basic. Okay, but um
so I I at this time again, um
We want to get to a point where where we're supporting
deck.
decarb. I just think we need to do it in a responsible
manner. Thank you.
um going to go to Al
Um going to go to Alderman Hall on Zoom.
Well, thank you so much.
Well, thank you so much, um chairwoman for um allowing.
and making space for uh, this important subject matter and
I want to also Echo some of the bars.
I want to also Echo some of the bars and said by those
public comment including Mr. Blakemore about the power of
Mother Earth,
Mother Earth and it's clear that I mean as we look at the
intersection,
intersection of time and environment that we are definitely
in need of urgent matters to preserve. Uh, we the home of
as we know the freshest Water Service in America.
as we know the freshest Water Service in America, and I
believe in the world. Don't quote me if I got it wrong, but
needless to say my question is this it was mentioned want
to talk to the commission.
to talk to the commissioner. Um,
it was missed it was mentioned.
It was missed. It was mentioned earlier in comparison about
um, specially the restaurant industry the difference
between cooking inside, um a kitchen and
cooking inside of of the home using gas. Could you go back
to that and Could you um, could you reiterate the
difference between um a restaurant that's using gas.
difference between um a restaurant that's using gas to cook
in a home that uses gas to cook.
Sure, so, this is granlei Rick.
Sure. So, this is granlei Rick managing Deputy Commissioner
in the department of buildings and
in the department of buildings. And in response to the
previous question. I I did point out that all uh Open Flame
cooking.
Flame cooking in a restaurant Commercial Kitchen would
required to have an exhaust hood that exhausts the air to
the outdoors and is regularly.
the outdoors and is regularly serviced. It's a higher
standard uh than we require.
standard, uh than we require for domestic uses within a
home.
home or an apartment, uh the building code here.
home or an apartment, uh, the building code here and in
most other places in the United States,
most other places in the United States allows recirculating
hoods, or
hoods or direct vent to the outdoors, but those are less
robust system.
robust systems, uh and consistent with other exceptions
that are in our draft ordinance and in ordinances adopted
other places, uh, the the proposed ordinance before the
council.
council accepts commercial cooking. Uh, but also
Industrial,
production and some research and teaching Labs some
applications.
applications where there just isn't widely.
applications where there just isn't widely available.
Commercialized technology, that's fully.
Commercialized technology that's fully decarbonized yet for
those applications.
Okay. Thank thank you for that. So essentially.
Okay. Thank thank you for that. So essentially if um, I
just don't want to paraphrase but I do want to summarize.
basically restaurants that are using, you know, the
ventilation system they get outside.
ventilation system. They get outside air circulating and
those in typical.
those in typical homes. Don't get outside. It's more of a
recycled.
recycled are correct.
That that's correct. There's a requirement.
That that's correct. There's a requirement to have that
exhaust to the outdoor system in.
exhaust to the outdoor system in a commercial kitchen Okay,
cool. So my second question is I know we spoke at a
timeline, but I just want to make sure especially the
residents of the 6 W that are listening.
residents of the 6 W that are listening you talk about the
Imp Implement. Um, the the transition timeline, uh,
Implement, uh that were you know what I'm trying to say the
the timeline of starting my tongue got that I apologize.
Um, the timeline I'm starting a proposed.
Um, the timeline I'm starting a proposed possible time line
of the new, um, the
of the new um, the new ordinance. What what what's the the
timeline that we're looking at comparison the old versus
new we spoke.
new we spoke with the could you speak on that again
requirements and things of that nature?
requirements and things of that nature in the timeline?
Sure. So the way that the or
sure. So the way that the ordinance has introduced is
drafted is that it would take
Effect 1 year after passage by the full Council, so that's
to be determined when that um measurement starts. Uh, we
are hoping that that is sometime the spring or summer so
about a year from the spring or summer.
about a year from the spring or summer, um, that effective
date would be and it would apply to when the first building
application for that project is filed. So in the past when
we phased in the new building code in 2019, um the new
energy code in 2022 2023. Um, we certainly see a little
Spike at the department.
Spike at the department of buildings of applications that
all get filed the day before the new code takes effect.
That's something that we expect to happen. Um, so we are
giving people that notice if they
the pipeline they
investing for years and designing uh planning.
investing for years and designing, uh planning, um getting
financing in place for that project.
getting financing in place for that project but after that
effective date, which is drafted to be 1 year from the
date, it passes Council if the permit application for that
project the first permit application for that project,
project the first permit application for that project is
filed after that date, it would be subject to this. Uh,
requirement of phasing out many applications.
requirement of phasing out many applications, uh of
combusting fossil fuels and buildings.
Okay. Thank you for clarifying that so.
Okay, thank you for clarifying that so essentially again
Cliff note version.
Cliff note version, especially for 6 Ward residents any
that has had a gas. Stove will not be.
that has had a gas. Stove will not be forced to convert
over to Electric, correct?
That that is absolutely correct.
Okay, so let me just combine these 3 things so I can get
it, right.
it. Right. So anyone that has had.
it. Right. So anyone that has had a gas stove in their in
their unit.
their unit their home. They're not going to be forced to
change over.
change over those in the restaurant will still have a
quality of air due to the um, the stipulation IE the cold
and then let me ask you this the third the third question I
have and this is not even.
have and this is not even going to take place possibly.
a year from now, but let me let me ask you this question as
well.
When we talk about the effect.
When we talk about the effect on environment, can we talk
about the potentially job creation?
about the potentially job creation, uh add or subtracting
in these new constructions under?
in these new constructions under this new ordinance through
the implementation of the electrical. Could you could you
maybe dive deep into the job cre?
maybe dive deep into the job creation numbers projected?
Do you want to
No.
No, I don't want to start.
Thank you.
Yes, and so we we do have um some data to share with you
Alderman Hall.
Alderman haul. Um, and this is data that is coming through
directly to the White House.
directly to the White House and and you may have missed
this um point and I know I gave a lot of information in our
present.
presentation. Um, but this is direct data from the White
House that says,
House that says that there are 120,000 folks in.
House that says that there are 120,000 folks in Illinois
employed in the clean energy job sector. We know that
Illinois is a emerging and um ranks fifth in the nation in
terms of clean energy jobs now, um, we attribute that and
there is a parallel between Progressive and robust climate
policy and the creation of new green jobs. And so we do
anticipate that those numbers will go dramatically.
dramatically and we can follow up with you to give you some
more direct numbers. Um, but from the data that we've
viewed the research that we've seen, um, as well as the
dollars,
dollars that are flowing through the inflation reduction
act and
procedure to prepare people for the clean energy transition
and to support green green energy jobs. We are seeing both
investment and growth in those jobs increased dramatically.
Okay, so we had number 5 right now.
Okay, so we had number 5 right now and with the potential
of this new piece of legislation, we can go even higher
possibly top.
possibly top at least top 3 possible.
possibly top at least top 3 possible or top 5 give or take
in job creation.
in job creation with this. The second thing is it doesn't
make people change their current situation.
make people change their current situation those who are
still in environments IE in the kitchen as my colleague
mentioned as a good concern and observation.
mentioned as a good concern and observation and thank you
for doing something. They still have good air quality, but
yet we will be reducing the uh imprint.
yet we will be reducing the uh imprint, um the thing I mean
the footprint rather and then the last thing that I want to
ask is essentially this what will it do to better the
environment especially in the homes, um, these new homes
that we you know will be in effect with this and even those
that may want to upgrade their homes. Could you identify
the simplest form maybe 2 or 3?
the simplest form maybe 2 or 3 big impacts that this will
have inside of this?
the daily
healthwise
Oh, okay.
Pardon me elderman. I didn't hear.
Pardon me elderman. I didn't hear your question and I
encourage anybody else that wants to weigh in as well.
encourage anybody else that wants to weigh in as well the
um, I'll say 2 to 3. What do you think the top health
impacts would be inside the home? Um,
impacts would be inside the home, um that uh in the new
homes built with these emission standards.
Thank you.
Thank you chairwoman. That's exactly what I said.
And he said in the simplest terms.
and he said in the simplest terms, and so I I think that
the first thing to point to and it
first thing to point to and it it's something that we just
talked about with um with the combustion of fossil fuels
indoors. Um, you heard from my colleague earlier, um from
my colleagues,
my colleagues at cdph as well as many people, um that have
spoke today just about the concerns related to the
combustion of fossil fuels indoors. Um,
combustion of fossil fuels indoors, um, you know, because
homes do not have the add
homes do not have the adequate filtration. I'm going to ask
you to lean a little bit more to your mic or bring it
closer to you. Bring that mic closer to you.
Apologies. Um, so I will say that first and foremost the
the improved air quality.
the improved air quality because we are alleviating the
combustion.
combustion of fossil fuels and doors if you think about
combustion of fossil fuels indoors, right? We know that
there are a release of many chemicals that we are concerned
about. Um, and so we do um think that
that will lead to improved air quality the data is there
that supports that and so that is something that my
colleague already spoke to.
Um, we also think about the broader impacts of Emissions on
our city. Um, we in the city of Chicago experienced poor
air quality days frequently.
air quality days frequently that was exacerbated Again by
climate change.
climate change more recently when we saw the wildfires
last.
summer, um this move
towards
lessening our Reliance on fossil fuels will dramatically
impact.
impact our air quality and improve our air quality overall.
Um, and so that's not at the household level Alderman haul.
Um, but I still think that that is a important.
Um, but I still think that that is a important point that I
want to raise and I will um defer to my colleagues if they
have more things I'd like to
have more things. I'd like to add to that list.
so so I'll just
So so I'll just add in that. I think we've already
committed in.
committed in response to some earlier questions to
reconfirm this locally for Chicago.
reconfirm this locally for Chicago, but the operating costs
are a big factor, um and and having uncertain unpredictable
utility bills that Spike all over the place. I'm I'm sure
my colleagues in the Department of Public Health can
that that stressful that's not a good situation.
that that stressful that's not a good situation and this
would help um, you know and through the energy code that
Council has continued to adopt since 2001, uh, and continue
to increase we have made sure that upfront costs.
Uh upfront construction is built to the highest standards.
We heard that from the testimony from the the building
industry assoc.
industry Association that in partnership with us. They've
worked on those energy codes. So this is continuing to
build on that, uh bring down.
build on that, uh, bring down those operating costs of
heating cooling.
heating cooling, um living in a home so that those um,
Expenses can be more certain and and redirected to other.
places which does have a positive impact on quality of
life, which I think is is a large part of Health.
life. Which I think is is a large part of Health know
fantastic. I'll just add 1 last thing Alderman Hall to
maybe make a point that is kind of implied in what in what
um managing deputy.
um managing Deputy Oreck is saying which is that 1 of the
reasons we start with new construction when we're making a
transition like this is because it's always cheaper.
easier to to start this kind of transition when you're
starting fresh so
new construction is being built intentionally to the
highest standards of Energy Efficiency right off the bat.
and there's a cost savings and a health savings there.
you're when you're starting on the ground level so to speak
with something.
speak with something that's doesn't already exist. And I
don't know that we've actually stated that out loud today,
and I think that's an important thing to remember.
Thank you, and thank you. Yeah Madam chair. Thank you for
the questions and I in concluding so I can get it right.
the questions and I in concluding so I can get it right new
job creation top 5 secondly better air quality. Thirdly
know.
mandates for anyone who has the current setup.
mandates for anyone who has the current setup to change
fourthly it will.
fourthly. It will improve our entire cities quality for
gift that we got from Mother Earth. So, thank you so much
mad.
Madam chair and um, I'm enjoying the dialogue.
Madam chair, and um, I'm enjoying the dialogue. Thank you.
Thank you so much, Alderman Conway.
Thank you so much Alderman Conway. You're up next and after
Alderman Conway Alder kud.
Alderman Conway Alder kuden.
Uh, thank you madam. Chairwoman.
Uh, thank you madam, chairwoman. Uh, and I would say, uh, I
greatly appreciate these.
greatly appreciate these subject matter hearings as someone
that was a solar energy developer before I became, uh,
34th Ward Alderman also let hearings in this committee
regard.
regarding concerns, uh of burning people's gas.
regarding concerns, uh of burning people's gas rate hike.
Um, so I have a I have a few questions. Um,
and I I believe uh, Chief sustainability officer Tovar is
the right person but feel them as you see as you see fit.
um, you know, you you mentioned the inflation
reduction Act. Was there anything in that and which was an
AM?
ambitious and wonderful piece of legislation was there?
anything?
in that legislation that
manned
mandated, um mandated funding receipt on a new construction
limit of
25 kilograms of lesser of carbon dioxide per BTU or
anything or anything similar within that legislation.
So I'm going to repeat the question back to you just to
make sure that I got it. I think that the question is.
there Ira incentives that support decarbonization.
Technologies or decarbonized. Was there anything specific?
specifically that?
that required access to
That required access to funding contingent upon a limit.
of a of carbon dioxide. Emissions is a better way to put
it.
for for um
so I'll
So I'll just get it started Alderman. Um, I I'm not aware
of anything specifically on that limit.
of anything specifically on that limit, but that being said
the the fun.
the the funding in the ira is all directed at um, Clean
Energy Technologies. And so you're not going to be eligible
for the funding.
for the funding, uh, whether it's a tax credit or a a home
rebate if you're not um, and it's going to depend as you
know, the IRA is a very large.
know, the IRA is a very large law with lots of different
subprograms.
subprograms and their own requirements. But um, you know,
I'm not aware of for example any um, uh,
I'm not aware of for example any um, uh tax incentives or
for Grants or um, uh
For Grants or um, uh, uh, ah rebates for conventional
fossil.
fuel technology that's installed at this time. I will also
just mention 1 other quick thing and then turn to others on
the panel if they want to add anything. Um, just yesterday
the US Department of energy released its um, its Blu
for building decarbonization. It's um, uh, we'd happy to
provide through the chair the the web.
provide through the chair the the web page because it's
it's it's pretty well done.
it's it's pretty well done and they explicitly state that
the from the US Department of energies perspective. They
will be driving.
will be driving all of their funding decisions.
will be driving all of their funding decisions and
technical assistance and and other resources.
technical assistance and and other resources towards
supporting local and state governments.
supporting local and state governments that are pursuing
strategies. Um, like we're pursuing here. It's not the only
the only um type of program they want to support they also
want to support um efforts to improve uh, decarbonization
and
existing buildings, but
Existing buildings, but within that within that paper is
there. Is there a specific?
there. Is there a specific I want let me kind of like can I
clarify because I think I hear what you're asking
specifically I want to so are you asking?
specifically I want to so are you asking I I hear Alderman
Conway asking
Is there an emissions?
uh set emissions standard was kind of you access funding
within the I think you said no, but I think what I also
heard Jared say was that the very nature of the IRA funding
is to move away from fossil.
is to move away from fossil fuels so like you're not going
to be eligible for funding.
to be eligible for funding using conventional fossil fuel.
technology for any IRA funds though. It may not list an
emission standard. I just wanted to clarify that. Yeah, I
mean clearly you're not going to get an IRA funding to to
build.
build a Coal Power Plant. I understand that but there isn't
some kind of there isn't some kind of um, you know,
can't get funding to for your billing to be uh, Leed
certified if it if it has some emissions limits at least I
don't think there is but that was the question I was
getting at
Anything to add and again, it wouldn't be specific.
Anything to add and again, it wouldn't be specifically for
an emissions limit. However, there are a considerable
amount of tax credits for techn.
amount of tax credits for technologies that meet that
standard. Um, so if you think about it at the home level
for example are source.
for example air source heat pumps is an example of a um, it
it your eligible for an incentive if you pursue that
measure versus a conventional h
measure versus a conventional HVAC system, just like if you
put solar panels on your roof. Yeah, absolutely.
put solar panels on your roof. Yeah. Absolutely. Um asking
you some questions about the um,
you some questions about the um about the grid I'm looking
at a a a Bloomberg article that's from februari 15.
at a a a Bloomberg article that's from februari 15th with
the headline unpredictable power surg.
the headline unpredictable power surges threaten the US
grid and your home that
specifically says within it the Chicago area
Specifically says within it the Chicago area has been a
persistent hotspot for power quality.
persistent hotspot for power quality issues.
Noting that we had a a
ice storm where 114,000 ComEd customers in Cook County were
without power on January 12th, January 30th, we had
without power on January 12th, January 30th. We had another
outage where 44,000.
outage where 44,000 ComEd customers without power.
based on
Based on that did these outages affect your analysis?
whether the grid is ready for this?
whether the grid is ready for this legislation. I'm going
to pause. Um, I'm going to pause because I I don't know if
you heard me say this. I know you had a Congratulations by
the way on the event announced.
the way on the event announcement this morning 150 million
being important to 34. Oh it was
being important to 34. Oh, it was just 1 note that so
perhaps um,
Yeah, I don't I don't know that we want our departments.
trying to answer questions for ComEd when ComEd will
their own section. Well, there was literally a slide.
their own section. Well, there was literally a slide no,
no, no, I was ready for this, but I have to push back.
no, no, I was ready for this. But I have to push back our
outages they can answer and and reference to their
determination on grid reliability. Um, but I I just wanted
to note because the the question specificity that you're
asking so I would Direct
asking so I would direct our city departments to answer
your questions based on your knowledge of grid reliability.
We do have 5 segments today, um after um, this group that
we have is it people comment will be up.
we have is it people comment will be up next. Yeah as soon
as we're finished round of questioning.
as we're finished round of questioning I'm going to the
department has opened up this I'd like to finish what I'm
I'd like to finish what I'm saying without you interrupting
me. Yeah.
Not trying to be rude here. Um, so I'll let them answer, but
I want to know that you're going to have calmed up.
I want to know that you're going to have calmed up here to
answer some more specific questions.
answer some more specific questions, and then you're going
to have people's guess so, um, I know not everybody was
here on time and I wanted to make sure you understood how
this hearing was going to go. Thank you. All right. Yeah.
We're we're
we're we're happy to give a short response. Uh, and again
welcome.
welcome to anybody else on the panel to to join in. Um,
what what we would say Alderman is yeah. We're we're
absolutely just as focused on grid reliability as as
anybody else in this room and it and it's it's of course.
anybody else in this room and it and it's it's of course
essential. I mean 1 thing. I I at least had to sort of step
back and realize when I began working on.
back and realize when I began working on this project a
couple of years ago is electricity rely.
couple of years ago is electricity reliability is important
today with the conventional system. I mean you you know,
your furnace almost certainly doesn't work unless you have
a very elaborate backup setup. Uh, if you lose power,
right, even if it's currently if even if it's currently
fueled by um, natural gas as opposed to electricity, so
grid reliability.
was
Was important 50 years ago. It's important today and it'll
be important going forward and um, I'm not familiar with
the power surge, uh specific issue that you're talking
about.
about in the Bloomberg study. We'd be happy to take a look
at that. Um, I'm I'm I'm aware of what if that issue as a
distinct type of power reliability concern. Um, but we're
having to look at that in more detail if you
we feel we feel confident that the
actually um in a better position.
actually um in a better position than um than many other
regions.
uh, and I know that that
says Excellence CEO warns cleaning the grid needs higher
power bills from februari 26th of this year. Do we this is
sort of a follow-up for on Alderman?
sort of a follow-up for on Alderman tobar's uh that
question but do we have an estimate here?
question but do we have an estimate here on how much this
legislation will increase?
legislation will increase, uh increase power bills for
Chicagoans?
I I don't you know.
I I don't you know, I'll go back to what what we said to to
the Allure woman. We don't expect that. This will have any
you know, Major Impact on on electric or gas power, uh,
utility bills that that we're aware of we are more than
open to looking at rigorous analysis that would
That which that would show. Otherwise the only other thing
I'll I'll say Alderman on on this line of questioning is
um, you know, we we're we're just as concern.
um, you know, we we're we're just as concerned about
maintaining, you know aggressive.
maintaining, you know aggressive accountability for um
public.
public Electric utilities as well. And this is this is not
about sort of you, you know look like letting
about sort of you, you know, look like letting our guard
down, um for 1 of the other we were um, very active in the
rate.
rate case not at all claiming that the city is
rate case. Not at all claiming that the city is the sole
reason that the ICC sent things back to the drawing board.
for the grid the uh, the comet grid plan, but we we opposed
aspects of it. We we thought that the um proposed uh rate
of return was too high.
of return was too high and we'll continue to do so if we if
we see
if we see things that we agree with the utility 1 we'll say
so in those cases, but we'll also just as easily say that
we disagree and uh, you know my opinion. I know you'll be
hearing from cub and others later.
hearing from cub and others later today, but that's that's
the whole structure of you know, utility accountability in
System where you have a Public Utility Commission that lets
people.
people Express Express views do um, just based on the
earlier question and noting that your slides already.
do you do you feel yourself qualified to opine on the
reliability electrical grid
the reliability can you can
The reliability can you can you repeat the question do you
feel yourself? Um
Do you feel you are qualified to?
Do you feel you are qualified to Alpine on the reliability
of the electrical grid you kind of already?
of the electrical grid you kind of already did but the
chairs seem to question that so I wanted to get your
thoughts on whether how much you stand.
thoughts on whether how much you stand by your statement
that the grid is ready for.
that the grid is ready for uh that is ready for this. Do I
feel as if I'm cual
feel as if I'm qualified to apply on the reliability of the
electric grid. Yeah, I would say that I have been here.
this table exploring equitable dcarbon.
this table exploring Equitable decarbonization on behalf of
the city of Chicago.
the city of Chicago since 2020 in my capacity as chief.
sustainability officer as my capacity as now the
commissioner of the Department of environment and a dual
role. I have worked extensively with people across all
sectors to understand including doing extensive research
both utilities and their capacity. So yes, I would say
through that research. That is research.
through that research that is research that I have brought
here to you today. And I feel that I am qualified to to
make that statement great. Um,
Well, thank you very much. I I would I won't.
Well, thank you very much. I I would I won't make any wrong
statement. I I
Certainly with my background. I consider myself a a fan of
green energy I do.
green energy. I do have concern about the unintended
consequences of of this.
consequences of of this and and just want to make sure that
we are.
striking the right balance and I appreciate Madam chairwoman
that you didn't just simply take this legislation. Try to
throw it right into.
throw it right in the city council about having these
hearings. So I appreciate it. And that's that's all I have.
Thank you very much.
Thank you Alder.
Thank you Alderman Conway. Um, I know some of you are new.
Thank you Alderman Conway. Um, I know some of you are new
uh this term, but I don't think I've ever taken a piece.
uh this term, but I don't think I've ever taken a piece of
legislation and just thrown it in city council.
legislation and just thrown it in city council and expect
that everyone to vote for it. Um, so we like to take our
time here. Um next up. I've got Alderman canson and then
uh, I've got Alder Lee and then I've got Alder d
Thank you chair. I appreciate it. And I'll Echo, um older
person Conway just that I think it's a it's a good first
initial conversation. Um, uh, I think that a few things
that we've got to make clear and you've said share a few
times is that this is not a natural gas ban. This isn't
going to impact existing homes in a way. It's a soft
transition, but there's a lot of stakeholders here.
transition, but there's a lot of stakeholders here that
have important points that we can keep talking.
have important points that we can keep talking to you to
make sure that the language that eventually I do think we
will pass um is done correctly and in a way without
unintended consequences.
unintended consequences, um, uh had an intro about the
importance of this but I'll honestly skip it because we've
heard from that from a lot of people. I think we all know
that this is really important to do.
that this is really important to do in order to meet. Um
goals set by many standards. I mean the city has a climate
action plan we all look,
action plan. We all look to Paris in their Accords Governor
pritzker has essay. It's it's just important this this
Emissions aren't going to be reduced on their own. Um, so a
few.
few questions, um 1 we mentioned 12,000.
few questions, um 1 we mentioned 12,000 jobs or around
12,000 jobs being created.
12,000 jobs being created in New York, um after their
similar legislation was passed and I was wondering if we
have any data, um on impacts related to how ordinances in
major cities like New York and LA.
major cities like New York and La impacted or did not
impact development. Um, really just looking at whether you
know, there's any stats as to whether it helped or hurt.
So 1 detail that I did.
So 1 detail that I did not mention, um it but just speaks
to.
to the extensive research that we've done on this subject.
Is that prior to even launching Direct?
Is that prior to even launching direct engagement with
stakeholders? We also just did.
stakeholders? We also just did an extensive analysis of 12
North American.
North American cities that do have building policies.
both for new construction and existing.
both for new construction and existing buildings to
understand the suite of recommendations.
understand the suite of recommendations again, there's
there is no 1 solution for every city, right? Um,
You know some cities pursue new construction.
You know some cities pursue new construction, which is what
we're here to do today some cities start.
we're here to do today some cities start with their
existing buildings and look at a suite of policies.
existing buildings and look at a suite of policies and
programs. Um, so we have done that analysis we do have
that scan of 12 North American cities.
that scan of 12 North American cities, um to look at some
of the challenges the opportunities best practices policies
that they pursued and a wide range of other information.
That would be relevant.
that would be relevant to developing a policy here in
Chicago and really served.
Chicago and really served as um a framework for what became
a Very Long Engagement process.
a Very Long Engagement process across many sectors to to
learn more about challenges and opportunities here in
Chicago.
Okay. Um, okay and yeah on that point, too.
Okay. Um, okay and yeah on that point too it it came up in
a community meeting and actually
a community meeting. And actually I just want to I just
wanted to note. Um, just just to make sure that part of the
question got answered. Um, was there an impact on
development? I think it was the question. I don't know if
we have the information. Um from from those stud.
we have the information, um from from those studies if you
guys could speak to that part of the question.
guys could speak to that part of the question and if you
don't if you don't have it now then through the chair, but
I think that was the meat of the question.
so I guess to the other part of the question about
studies and sort of comparing I think development happens
in 2 complex.
in 2 complex of a ecosystem of policies tax policy.
construction codes to I have not seen anyone come out with
a study looking at the impact of this specific.
uh
policy change in New York City, which really just
taking effect less than a year ago. I think in New York
City and and Los Angeles similar. Um, I think that time.
frame of those policies to study and impact. Um, and I have
not seen anyone attempt to do that. So unfortunately, I
don't think there is data, okay.
You know with the New York numbers on job creation we can.
kind of see that, you know, assuming those jobs are.
kind of see that, you know, assuming those jobs are are are
going into development. It would be really interesting to
hear, you know.
hear, you know, as a as a pro development person.
hear, you know, as a as a pro development person, uh
counselor with the commissioner of planning and
counselor with the commissioner of Planning and Development
who has stated she is pro development. It would be great.
honestly to hear from her at some point on.
Honestly to hear from her at some point on um on what this
could mean for for development in the city.
could mean for for development in the city, um, and you
know not no corner of the Cities alike, but
is we had a a community meeting on a uh, a larger
residential project being done in the ward.
residential project being done in the ward a few weeks ago
and the question came up from a member of why are you using
electric? Um, uh in your, you know, your stove and all your
hook,
hookups and this project was pretty much already.
With what Cabo would entail and the local developer?
With what Cabo would entail and the local developer. Um,
really just said because he his perspective tenants.
They're going to require it at some point. He's creating
creating housing stock for a new batch of tenants. Um, so I
found that interesting
um, you know, I mentioned that this ordinance does not
impact existing buildings, but I was wondering um,
generally if there are any City
generally if there are any city-run reports related to um
existing buildings in which existing buildings in Chicago
are the worst polluters.
in terms
In terms of existing buildings. Um, we track buildings that
are um,
are um and require buildings through our benchmarking
ordinance.
ordinance to report um on an annual Cadence. Those are
buildings over 50,000 square feet we have
buildings over 50,000 square feet. We have over 2,000 of
those buildings that report to us on an annual.
those buildings that report to us on an annual basis. So we
do have data and we do release reports related to um to
those buildings specifically what we're finding as you can
imagine,
imagine is that when buildings of that at that scale start
to understand where they are um inefficient,
to understand where they are um inefficient and where they
are losing money because they're not investing in Energy
Efficiency Clean Energy Technologies renew.
Efficiency Clean Energy Technologies renewable energy, um,
that oftentimes that motivates them to make changes. Um, so
we have seen tremendous success with that program. We also
have a program at a lower tier.
um, well for anyone that, um any building any instit
Um, well for anyone that, um any building any institution
that does not meet that threshold that wants to volunt.
that does not meet that threshold that wants to voluntarily
enter into um a retrofit process. We also have another
program called retrofit.
program called retrofit Chicago where folks voluntarily
offer their data.
offer their data and receive technical assistance.
offer their data and receive technical assistance from the
city to advance retrofits as well. So we do have some data
that we monitor we don't monitor, um, the emissions data
from buildings at all building.
from buildings at all building typologies here. We just
track the overall greenhouse gas emissions. Okay, and
that's helpful. Maybe that's a separate conversation that
you know, we'll we'll continue to have uh during this this
process.
process as they do they do relate, although I know it is
not a part.
not a part of this ordinance as it was proposed to be a
part of previous.
part of previous ordinances. Um, uh 1 question, too. I'm
just trying to look at uh, priorities and
just trying to look at uh priorities and level set on that
a bit. So with our climate action plan,
a bit. So with our climate action plan in Chicago, we're
we're set to reduce the city's carbon em,
we're set to reduce the city's carbon emissions by 62%
by 2040, um in the scope of that 62
By 2040, um in the scope of that 62% reduction. Um, can you
give us all just a general perspect?
give us all just a general perspective on how big how
significant the buildings?
significant the building's piece of of this puzzle is
Sure, I I know.
Sure, I I know it was mentioned. Um.
Often in this conversation already. I know that there have
been.
been a number of people who have mentioned this but
buildings.
buildings is our largest source of admissions here and as
you noted in the climate action plan their
you noted in the climate action plan, there is a
significant commitment to advancing policies, um that are
aimed at reducing greenhouse gas emissions in our built
environment. I will note and I think 1 important note to
make here is that um the plan is
make here is that um, the plan is equally as as committed
to Green
to greenhouse gas emissions reduction as it is to equity so
there are
both commitments to lowering emissions and goals
targets, but there is also a narrative in their
targets, but there is also a narrative in there that says
that we have to think about the supportive structures
required.
required to transition our building successfully. So that
means understanding some of the barriers to particip.
means understanding some of the barriers to participation
for people that have been excluded from the process.
historically that is understanding some of the concerns.
that will be raised by the labor unions.
that will be raised by the labor unions later on today. And
that also means that we are providing not just policy
shifts, but also programs to support those, uh to support
the transition as well. And so I I just want to make sure
that I underscore that. Yes, you you do see goals and
targets tied to buildings. There is a significant amount of
Commitments that are in the climate action plan tied to our
built environment.
built environment because again, we know that it's going to
improve health impact.
improve health impacts and cost savings things that we care
about just as equally as reducing our emissions. Um, but
there is also a commitment in there to ensuring that we
have the right program.
have the right programs and policies in place to make that
successful.
Can I just add 1 more thing Alder Ken? Um, the the 1 other
thing I'll say about the 62.
thing I'll say about the 62% number is the built
environment.
environment is the part of our mission's profile.
environment is the part of our mission's profile where you
all city council can have the most impact, uh as well and
just real quick.
just real quickly why it's building its transport.
just real quickly why it's buildings. It's transportation
and then a smaller component is waste that basically gets
you to 100% of our emissions profile.
you to 100% of our emissions profile you all cannot in the
United States.
United States, um mandate or even strong.
United States, um mandate or even strongly push residents
to use, um, uh, electric vehicles or other vehicles that
don't rely on on fossil fuel combustion. That's just not
something.
something that local governments, um can do so
something that local governments. Um can do so, uh, you
know buildings is where city council can make a difference
in reaching that 62.
in reaching that 62% goal. There are things we can do on
transportation for sure. We've talked to to this this body
about, you know encour
about, you know, encouraging uh public charging stations.
and other things like,
that we won't get into that here, but but buildings is
really where you can make the most impact.
And if I could just respond to the comment before that.
about Pro development, certainly, uh we've had
conversations with Planning and Development as as this has
gone through and I think Mayor Johnson is is pro
development. He signed an executive order in Fall that I
think is going to result.
think is going to result in an announcement very soon about
the next steps from his executive order regarding
streamlining.
streamlining and in conversations. I've been in with him
about Cabo.
about Cobo. He certainly made clear that this would not be
a barrier to development and that is uh from our
engagement.
over the last 3 years leading up to drafting this
ordinance. That's certainly the commitment. So we've talked
to large developers small Developers.
to large developers small developers. I was just in a round
table of developers yesterday.
table of developers yesterday morning virtually
facilitating, Illinois Green Alliance.
facilitating, Illinois Green Alliance, uh all in support of
this and you know again,
this and you know, again, they have concerns about the
timing and and making sure it's clear. Um, but it is really
the timing is drafted.
the timing is drafted to give them a Year's notice to
prepare for this not have it near um in Los Angeles they
passed it.
passed it and took effect in 3 months. There was a lot of
the development Community, um that they thought that they
could adopt.
A dramatic change like that.
With 3 months notice, I think big Year's noticed that.
drafted in reflects that commitment to work in partnership
with our development Community. That's great. Yeah, and I
think that's important and you know good to hear of
streamlining announcements, uh coming.
streamlining announcements, uh coming as someone who uh
believes, uh, really believes we we've got to do that to
get these projects done. Um, I think that there's going to
be some nuts and bolts we'll have to figure out just in the
the wording on the 1 year noticed to make sure that
the wording on the 1 year notice to make sure that uh, you
know a project that maybe has been approved in some senses
but is delayed for financing doesn't get caught up and then
have to you know,
have to you know redo some things and and spend a a a sum
amount of money to redo their plans and I'm sure nobody
intends for that. So we'll get that correct in the writ.
intends for that. So we'll get that correct in the writing.
um
You know.
You know, I think I think that's all I got. We've covered
we've covered a lot today. I'm going to scroll quick to see
if I missed.
if I missed something.
um
Make sure you save some questions for later. Yeah. Yeah.
I'm not going anywhere. So I'll I'll reserve my right to A
A Part 2, but you know overall I think.
A Part 2 but you know overall I think that um, I think that
the planning and development piece is such.
the planning and development piece is such a a big piece of
this even I think it was a year ago.
this even I think it was a year ago that cranes did that
special on clim.
special on climate migration in the future of Chicago.
special on climate migration in the future of Chicago as
uh, if not a American city the American city that has a
pitch.
pitch for population growth related to the climate.
Of our our vicinity to water our access.
Of our our vicinity to water our access to food, um and and
many other advantages.
many other advantages not having fires and earthquakes and
um, we this gets us on a right track to do that. We've got
to really walk the walk to talk the talk and I'm looking
forward to continuing this conversation just to make sure
that we don't we don't hit any um,
Any issues that we don't we don't intend to so, thank you.
Thank you. All right up next.
Thank you. All right up next I've got Alder Lee then Dal
then.
then Lopez. Um and after that law.
then Lopez. Um and after that Lawson and then more
so just so you know, if just you all just signed up. That's
why um, it's just a long list, so
why um, it's just a long list. So, um so alderley
Thank you.
thank you madam chair and and I'll Echo the the gratitude
for this type of hearing. Um, I know it's going to be
long day, but I think very useful for all of us that um,
and we all have a vested interest in this so with that I'll
uh, I'll get into my questions. Um,
Ryan I think you quoted something earlier about the the
estimate.
estimate, um, estimated impact on buildings going
estimate, um estimated impact on buildings going forward 3
years 600 to 900 buildings based.
years 600 to 900 buildings based on permit data. Um, I'm
curious about what the trends have been.
curious about what the trends have been for new buildings
in additions in general over the last few years because my
point is I I'd like to have a little bit of context for 600
to 900 compared to other years.
Sure, so.
Sure, so, let me get my details that that's uh AB.
Sure, so, let me get my details that that's uh abstracted
from so we looked at the Last 5 Years. Um, so 2019 through
2023 full calendar.
2023 full calendar years.
Um
so in in terms of uh new construction buildings that ranges
from 819.
from 819, uh new construction buildings permitted in 2019.
We were back at 816 in in 2022. Uh, we were down our our
lowest number in the last 5
lowest number in The Last 5 Years was 2023 with 587 and
some of that is, you know timing of when the permits
issued.
issued so, you know, but it definitely there were economic
factors Financial getting financing factors.
factors Financial getting financing factors in 2023 that
that reduced our volume of permits that we saw. Um, but we
we think that's a pretty good.
we think that's a pretty good representation of the the
universe of where things are.
universe of where things are going to be from 2019 to 2023
that 5 year.
so that's new construction and um
So that's new construction and um additions as well or was
that just so that that would be new construction in terms
of major additions.
of major additions as it's drafted, um in terms of both the
the the it has to be at least 10,000 square feet and
increasing.
increasing the existing building by more than 25% of the
existing.
existing condition floor area. So I I mean I think in in my
8 years in buildings I can think of probably there are 10
to 15 projects that meet that overall. Sometimes there's a
school that gets a very large.
school that gets a very large addition that would be over
that those triggers.
Um some there's a Park District Fieldhouse where they added
a school on.
a school onto it. Um, but for clarification when you say 10
to 15 examples of that you mean a year or is that like
since you've been with I would say 10 to 15 examples?
since you've been with I would say 10 to 15 examples of the
major additions in our time, but we wanted to put that in
to capture those big projects. So if you think of the Blue
Cross and Blue Shield building just north of of Grant Park
they added another
uh 1
Uh 1 East stories on top of that building 20 years after it
was built.
was built that would be a major addition that would trigger
the policy. Um some of the work that's under discussion for
the airports potent.
for the airports potentially is a major addition. So we
wanted to have that
Additional trigger, um, there were some proponents who
wanted.
wanted sort of major remodel
wanted sort of major Remodeling and no 1 knew how to define
that so uh in in having those conversations we came up with
the major additions. We think
with the major additions. We think that the vast majority
of of buildings that will be affected by this.
of of buildings that will be affected by this are in that
new construction category. Thanks for clarifying that I
mean again, the context is very helpful because we're not
talking about like a thousand Editions nessus.
talking about like a thousand editions necessarily, um,
because my my follow-up question,
because my my follow-up question to that was just going to
be you know, if you're you're adding 10,000 square feet or
25% um of of an of an existing structure, um,
I'm assuming that the ordinance I believe.
today, um has the application of the um, electrification
piece just apply to the addition or is it to the entire
structure?
It would apply to the entire.
It would apply to the entire structure in terms of new
things being added Okay, so
I have a building. I have a I have a Fieldhouse I want.
add a big addition because I want to add a basketball court
now. Um, so now that I've added a a basketball court to
this building, um everything in the basketball.
Court portion of the whole park U must now be electrified
it's not the entire part or is it I just want to understand
sure.
sure so back to that example of the Fieldhouse and now
you're adding a a an addition that's at least 10.
feet and also more than 25% of the existing.
feet and also more than 25% of the existing building the
existing heating system for that building is not going to
be adequate to sort of expand to to cover that large.
be adequate to sort of expand to to cover that large of
addition. So you're probably putting a new heating system.
uh as part of that work that new heating system for the
entire combined building is going to have to meet this
combustion.
combustion emission standard. Okay, so follow me along this
example for a minute. Um,
if we're
If we're looking at so, you know in the city council.
if we're looking at so, you know in the city council, we
approve lots of new park construction affordable housing
things that are in the works now, um
With the 12-month lead time, which I appreciate a year.
with the 12-month lead time, which I appreciate a year is I
think sufficient but get get into the weeds with me a
little bit here because we just approved something.
little bit here because we just approved something in
Alderman Lopez's Ward for an Adaptive reuse. I don't know
how quickly that's going to get off the ground. So like how
would how would the implementation of this?
would how would the implementation of this ordinance then
impact people?
impact people who have already had projects in the works.
Is it like as soon as when does the 12-month period apply
that?
that when the shovels are on the ground or in the planning
stages because
stages? Because I would imagine that um it if we had to go
back.
back to any of these projects that they would have to you
know read.
know redesign for you know use of this techn of you know,
100% electrification. What does that do?
100% electrification. What does that do for and I don't
know that that you can answer this question but impact
costs and timing uh of of delivery. I I I can talk through
how that would apply as it's drafted in the context of how
we apply things today and I certainly heard
we apply things today, and I certainly heard Alderman
kutson wanting to work maybe to refine that language.
wanting to work maybe to refine that language and and if
you want to be a part of that conversation, I think we're
open.
that but as it is drafted today, it would apply.
that but as it is drafted today, it would apply like our
previous recent changes to the building code or to the
energy code in 2022. Uh, it is based.
energy code in 2022. Uh, it is based on when you file a
building permit application. So the beginning of a building
permit application you need to tell us the address you need
to have a sort of scope.
to have a sort of scope of work. You need to know who your
architect is. You need to pay a deposit fee, um that
smaller projects is 375 for larger.
smaller projects is 375 for larger projects it it is based
on the square footage.
um
But there is that deposit fee then you.
But there is that deposit fee. Then you have 120 days to
upload your drawings. You have 120 days when the city says.
there's something missing in your drawings. So as long as
you start that process.
um before the date by paying that
Um before the date by paying that deposit fee, that's how
we measure things. That's our easiest clear.
administrative way of tracking things. You start that
building permit Depp.
building permit deposit and then you keep that application
active with activity every 120 days, you know, we
active with activity every 120 days. You know, we want to
get our building permits out fast, but we do a building.
permit applications in the system that are still active
that have been going back and forth with Planning and
Development over zoning.
Development over zoning change that are unfortunately 3
years from when they started that process.
Thanks for that answer. Um, and I I would love to be a part
of that conversation because I think that their real
implications for things projects that are in the works now
and as we know as we've seen I've only been in the council
for 2 years, but I've seen how sometimes how slowly things
happen.
happen and if you you plan 3 years ago for a project that
is still in process. You're you're coming back to the
council or coming back to the city for more money, um,
because costs in general are going up not the least of
which is if you have to redesign to accommodate something
like this because you're not ready to file for a permit for
something and I I think that's a
that question because I know it came up, um, uh all their
loss and I were meeting with uh, some major university
hospital.
Hospitals and that was a a concern right of like you should
Chicago. They've got a big, you know, New Edition,
Fantastic thing that everyone in the city wants to see in
development.
development for cancer research center, and that was a
question that actually, you know, Grant helped me answer
for them which was
for them, which was yes, these things are going on for
years.
years and planning as long as they have started that
process before.
process before the law takes effect. So not before even
what passage of this but before it takes effect. Um, then
they're going to be fine. Um, and so making sure that we've
got time to have those conversations. That's a great
question. Great. Thank you. I got 1 good question and so
far.
far so I'm gonna switch gears just for a second, um,
because I want to talk about the retrofit program. Um, I
know that um, we we budgeted for that in the 2023.
know that um, we we budgeted for that in the 2023 budget.
Um, do you know how much of that um, how much of that
budget was dispersed? Um,
last year, I'm wondering how the
Last year, I'm wondering how the program did because that
that was. I I think it's a great thing.
that was. I I think it's a great thing that we did in terms
of a pilot 15 million dollars.
of a pilot 15 million dollars to decarbonize 200 to 350
homes. Um,
which amounts to like 43 to
Which amounts to like 43 to 75 thousand dollars per home,
but I'd love to hear about like what what results?
but I'd love to hear about like what what results we've
seen from that thus far because we have increase that.
budget number for in 2024.
Hi, uh.
Hi, uh, I'm Lindy wardlaw director of climate environmental
justice initiatives and I oversee our climate and EJ
portfolio from um, The Suite of projects.
portfolio from um, The Suite of projects that were approved
and that is 1 of them. We work very closely with Department
of Housing. Um the money for that. Uh, we're we're still in
Um development of the program. We did an RFP process where
we we actually did an RFI first and then an RFP process. We
are working to go into Conte.
are working to go into contract, um with Partners, um, and
then the rollout of the program we're actually start at
that point, okay?
Great. Um, let me get to the last bit of this and it it may
just be premature at this point because given the stage
that we're in. Um,
Uh the RFP issued in 2020.
uh, the RFP issued in 2023, there were priority areas
eligible. Um,
eligible. Um for CRP funding that don't always map with the
areas that have the highest energy burden, you know, the
measure of income percentage of income a household.
measure of income percentage of income a household spends
on electricity and gas bills. Um, what criteria were used
to determine the priority areas.
uh, the priority areas came
Uh, the priority areas came from research of energy burden
areas. Um, I believe I'd have to go back and look at it and
I could um through the chair send a through the chair would
be great. Um,
And then how can we?
and then how can we improve energy burden Equity like what?
other subsidies might be available, um to residents.
other subsidies might be available, um to Residents that
live outside designated priority areas like my communities
of bridgeport's not 1 of them, right? So we're not a
priority.
priority area, but you know, I happen to live in a building
that is uh is pretty old. We we don't have like a modern.
HVAC system. I have a window. We we have a lot of probably
polluting window units, um for air conditioning, um, and
I'd like to understand like
Sort of programs. Can I be um tapping into for my constit?
constituents in the 11th when presumably lots of other
places?
places around the city
I can start now. I'll hand it off. Um.
I can start now. I'll hand it off, um to commissioner. Um,
there are a number of um, there's there's multiple
resources including utility incentives. Um, we have many
Community Partners. In fact many who were at the table in
the building Dakar working group, who are
the building Dakar working group who are engaging, um,
building owners and homeowners.
building owners and homeowners, um for Energy Efficiency
retrofits a couple come to mind, um, Chicago bungalow
Association,
Association actually works with um homeowners Beyond,
Bungalows. Um, there are numb
Bungalows. Um, there are numerous Community Partners that
Focus, um, specifically on multi family buildings as well.
Um, so I think it's about um creating that
Um, so I think it's about um, creating that match between
um building owners. Um,
um, building owners, um, and even tenants who are
interested um in finding out,
interested, um in finding out about the various incentives
that are available. Um, I would also note that um, the
pretty deep explanation about the IRA inflation red
act, um incentives really are available.
Particularly in the residential sector. Um, there are so
many opportunities for um,
immediate Reb
immediate rebates on um specific appliances and
Immediate rebates on um specific appliances and uh even HVAC
system. Um,
HVAC system, um Replacements. Um, but also,
HVAC system, um Replacements, um, but also tax, um, and tax
credits that come after purchase as well that those are
there are increased amounts for low to moderate income, uh,
building owners and and homeowners, but there are pieces of
that that are just available.
that that are just available to everyone too and it it so
it's really kind of marrying all these um, these programs
and opportunities together. Um, but I will hand it over to
Angela
And I I wanted to add a couple more things. Um 1 I know
that we just celebrated the exciting.
that we just celebrated the exciting program that was
announced in your ward the other week, right? Uh,
announced in your ward the other week, right, uh or last
week or this week last week. It's all together at this
point. But um the green and resilient retrofit program
those types of programs those
those types of programs. Those are inflation reduction act
dollars. Um, we're very excited.
dollars. Um, we're very excited and we're thrilled about
just this abundance of resources to invest back into our
building stock and that's 1 example of a program that was
successful. They spent down dollars and now the federal
government is coming back to say we have 173 million more
dollars.
dollars and we want to make sure that people are success.
in navigating inflation reduction act dollars.
that's difficult. That's a lot to ask for the
person. It's a lot to ask for people that are
developing homes that are re
city does will receive formula funding, um through the
inflation reduction.
inflation reduction act. Um, it's called um,
inflation reduction act. Um, it's called um energy, uh,
efficiency Community block rat funds. Um, it is, uh, it is
money that we are going to spend on a number of
strategies across the city not just the department of
environment. Um, but for the Depo the portion that will go
to the Department of environment 1 of our con.
commitments is to create creating more campaign work.
commitments is to create creating more campaign work around
letting people know that those resources are available.
them. Again. This is an unprecedented opportunity. We don't
know if we'll see this level of investment again, and we
want to make sure that this money flows back into the
city's economy. So we're very committed.
city's economy. So we're very committed to making sure that
you know, um that you have transparency about what programs
are available and to be there to help anyone who's
interested in navigating that space so that we can stack
those incentives on top of
the other utility and incentives
The other utility and incentives and programs that Wendy's
described. Well, I would say that.
described. Well, I would say that I I don't know that
there's anybody in here that would want us.
there's anybody in here that would want us to leave as a
city any of that money on the table. So, you know, please
share that information if you can make it available.
share that information if you can make it available on your
website. Um, and you know, I I like that you're going to
spend some resources and figuring out how to Market this.
Um, I think that's a great idea because I I definitely want
to see more incentivizing of people to just um to to take
the steps to decarb on their own. Um,
Are we exploring any programs currently at the city level
that's subsidized to purchase of energy.
that's subsidized to purchase of energy efficient products,
um, like heat pumps in particular.
So thanks alderwoman 1 program. That is not a
So thanks alderwoman 1 program that is not a city program.
It's another Ira program that we want to.
It's another Ira program that we want to call out though
that goes directly to what you just asked is.
Um, there is a program coming down the pike.
Um, there is a program coming down the pike called the uh
home energy rebate program. It's from US Department of
energy.
It goes to the state first. So the state of Illinois.
It goes to the state first. So the state of Illinois is in
line to get I think somewhere around.
line to get I think somewhere around 500 million dollars.
These are that's 500 million dollars.
just of rebates to
Just of rebates to Consumers for exactly what you're
talking about low and Maude.
talking about low and moderate income consumers, um that
includes things like induction cook.
includes things like induction cooktops heat pumps, you
know anything in the in the home space exactly like you're
asking, uh, you know, we we are not in DC the ones deck.
to get that I if we're up to us, we wish it was here now.
It is coming. It's in the ira. It's not a hypothetical.
thing. The state of Illinois is in the process of getting
their plan for for rolling it out to Consumers.
their plan for for rolling it out to Consumers approved, uh
with the feds and what we hear.
with the feds and what we hear from from folks managing the
program is that it'll be rolling out either later this year
or early 202.
or early 2025 that's going to be 1 of the most visible.
or early 2025 that's going to be 1 of the most visible, uh,
you know places where a consumer is
you know places where a consumer's literally going into you
know, Grand.
know, Grand Appliance here in
City or Home Depot and they're going to see that they can
get probably much if if they cual.
get probably much if if they qualify much of the cost of
say a new stove that qualif.
say a new stove that qualifies, you know covered through
this this program, so
this this program. So that's 1 of the the ones that we're
really going to work on.
really going to work on, uh educating and making people
aware is available.
aware is available like the commissioner said through
through um some some
through um, some some Outreach work. Okay, great. Thank
you. Um,
you. Um and
Once we have any sort.
Once we have any sort of data on the homes that are uh
being retro.
being retrofit if we can.
Get updates from you all with.
Get updates from you all with a sort of map of where that's
happening. Uh, that would be greatly.
happening. Uh, that would be greatly appreciated because I
think you know, um as as assuming these programs are
successful in what they want to do we want to
successful in what they want to do. We want to we want to
encourage people to participate.
Thank you. That's all I have manager. Thank you.
um order down
Thank you. Thank you madam. Chair. Um.
this ordinance if it passes is going to be
This ordinance if it passes is going to be transformational
and very significant.
and very significant and I'm really concerned about the
impact on the individual customer. So I have a couple of
questions related to
Um what we're talking about today?
Um what we're talking about today. So um Miss towbar, you
said that 20?
said that 20% of Chicagoans cannot afford their gas bill
right now. Do you have a comparable number?
right now. Do you have a comparable number for Commonwealth
Edison?
I
Yes, um we can we can provide that number through the chair.
I don't have that number.
I don't have that number off hand today. Okay. Do you know
if it's higher?
you know if it's higher or lower?
I do not see you. I would want to confirm this through the
chair.
chair but uh, I you know 1 Thing, uh chair.
chair. But uh, I you know 1 Thing, uh chair that makes it a
little difficult is it's apples and oranges and that
people's gas only serves the city of Chicago customers.
Whereas ComEd serves most of Northern.
Whereas ComEd serves most of Northern Illinois. It's got a
broader territory. I believe just based.
broader territory. I believe just based on those 2
territories comments, uh, um number of customers, you know
in late payment is lower. Um, but we would need to get
through the chair and figure out if we could. Okay, I'll
take it through the chair and I think Commonwealth Edison
is sophisticated enough that they can.
is sophisticated enough that they can carve out the Chicago
number for us.
um
in the cities where this type of transition has
In the cities where this type of transition has already
occurred.
occurred, um, are there any kind of financial impact
studies?
studies on?
uh how the change has affected individual consumers
um
Um, not that I am aware of. Um, we do have some information
from the New York City econom.
from the New York City Economic Development Corporation. Um
again, this would not impact existing.
again, this would not impact existing customers. They are
allowed to keep their it impacts.
allowed to keep their it impacts, um new customers, right?
So,
So I'm just curious to know. Um if we're
so I'm just curious to know um, if we're seeing a lot of uh,
people not being able to
uh, people not being able to afford their bills under the
transition. Um,
what's
What's the average uh amount of a?
what's the average uh amount of a electric bill? I'm
looking for some compar.
looking for some comparisons so that I could say to my
constituents.
constituents that this is really going to be more of a
benefit.
benefit than a uh arm.
could and I'll just I guess maybe
Could and I'll just I guess maybe it's a clarify. Um,
because I know you guys have been out there for several
hours now.
hours now, um, would this type of information be what is in
the affordability study that you say that you're getting
more?
more detailed Chicago numbers on because I know we've
referenced. Um the information that we had I think alderman
Alderman the spot. I had kind of 20 other cities, um both
looking.
looking at the cost of new construction, but also the
of operating and I think that's what Alder mandal's
getting.
to is. How much is it going to cost?
to is. How much is it going to cost uh a constituent to run
in all electric home and I heard you guys say that you're
working on getting updated.
working on getting updated numbers for Chicago. So in the
in the stud,
in the study that you're getting info for would you be able
to provide that type of like comparison that she's asking
for and and am I correctly asking for that that's good
chairman
When is that study?
When is that study to be completed?
I think I think it'll be done.
I think I think it'll be done very shortly. I don't know
that we can give you an exact day yet.
that we can give you an exact day yet because we're before
we before we vote on this ordinance. I will defer to others
but that certain seems reasonable. Yeah, are we talking
about like weeks?
Yeah weeks. Okay. Um.
Now it was mentioned that.
Now it was mentioned that 60000900 buildings per year would
be new construction. So that means that uh, Commonwealth
Edison would be a ComEd would be um, significantly
increasing their customer base. Um, have you all
discussions with them about uh, uh comparable in uh
increase in their utility assistance,
payment programs
Is that any oh we having discussions.
Is that any oh, we having discussions around that as well.
The the question was if we're having questions.
The the question was if we're having questions with them
about their utility if they're going to increase their
customer base seems to me.
customer base seems to me their utility assistance program
should be larger.
um
Is that something you're having discussions with them
around?
around as we're discussing this ordinance?
Yeah, I mean, I think what I I think our Focus right now is
is and we have lawyers working on this even today, uh
chair.
is vigorous. Advocacy at the ICC around their grid plan
because that's the plan that's going to determine um what
their rates are over the next.
their rates are over the next 5 years, uh, as I mentioned
earlier, I don't think the city
earlier. I don't think the city is going to try and lay
claim solely to The Reason.
claim solely to the reason uh for for some success there,
but we and a lot of other parties, um achieved a reduction
in Keds what's called its rate of return basically, it's
profit margin that you know Cub can speak to later. We
we'll be saving, uh rate payers comment.
we'll be saving, uh rate payers comment repairs hundreds of
millions of dollars over the next couple years and and
that's the kind of work we're focused on right now because
they just refiled their revised plan for their spending.
Um, uh and in the
Um, uh, and in the context of that, uh, what you're saying
is is completely reasonable that that maybe that
conversation is for Commonwealth Edison chairman. I just,
uh, I'm not going to sit through 5 hours.
of
Of your know and I think your Committee hearing today, but
it's a it's a fair question. Um,
it's a it's a fair question, um that I we can we can bring
up with them. Okay?
up with them. Okay, uh,
that's it for me. I mean, I I just want to make sure that
the at the end of the day the residents that are going to
be impacted by this are not going to be burdened by this
and that the people who are left. Um
to be uh rate payers or consumers of people's gas are not
going to be hurt by the fact that the these 60000
going to be hurt by the fact that the these 600 and 900
buildings are not now going to be part of the
uh
scenar
Scenario, um and that we're not going to lose.
scenario, um and that we're not going to lose, uh jobs that
there's actually going to be a net increase in jobs on both
sides of the Ledger.
Um, and I am not sure I have the answers to all that today.
Thank you very much.
Thank you very much chairman. Thank you very much.
um
Um Alderman Lopez
Thank you. Madam. Chairman, no question. No, just kidding.
Um, all right fantastic afternoon. Have a good day to all
of you. Um,
A few questions. Um
and I'd like to actually go back to the
And I'd like to actually go back to the original.
document the ordinance itself if we may
on pages 3 and on pages 5
it references.
it references the following.
provisions of this section blah blah blah, um shall be
applicable to permits applied for on or after.
uh
January 1 2023
we are now in 20.
we are now in 2024.
So will this ordinance impact?
So will this ordinance impact all of the permits from the
previous?
No, we would update the draft. That's just from the draft
language. That would be so this.
language. That would be so this is if if I have the draft
in front of me, so that's amending existing.
front of me, so that's amending existing language. So
that's when the energy transformation code.
that's when the energy transformation code took effect. So
that language is not underlined. That's the exist.
that language is not underlined. That's the existing code
and then it's adding on the provisions of section c 609 and
R. 609 Shelby applicable.
R. 609 Shelby applicable on an after 12 months after the
effective date. So this is amending this language into the
existing code. Um, the effective date would be as we
discussed 12.
discussed 12 months after
the effective date
of the ordinance of the Orden
Of the ordinance of the ordinance, okay.
I want to make sure I'm trying to understand.
the origins of this document
because my colleague to my right.
because my colleague to my right here asked start of this
conversation.
conversation who was involved and we heard stakeholders.
conversation who was involved and we heard stakeholders and
as I'm sitting here looking through.
like literally 190 email
Like literally 190 emails of meetings.
on this subject
from June 13th 2023
until
December
basically 1 month before introduction and I'm sure this
isn't the complete list but
I don't see a robust.
I don't see a robust conversation that was discussed.
commissioner is could the commissioner remind uh
alderman of the when were the dates of the working group.
that created the recommendations that were the origins of
the document. When was the working groups? Oh I
the document. When was the working groups? Oh, I I'm aware.
I'm just I just want to I'm asking because I don't remember
when were the working group meeting dates the working
group.
our research began in in 2020, and we concluded the working
group in 2022.
in 2022
so the Chicago building decarb coordination call was what a
post-work group working group.
I I I don't I'm not.
I I I don't I'm not familiar with the particular email or
that email.
that email exchange. Okay, then I I can I have many I can
continue.
continue Chicago building decarbonization. Thank you
commissioner I can continue.
so
the working group that allegedly gave rise to this ended.
2022.
but
But 190 emails later.
We are still talking.
We are still talking about.
strategies for creating a decarbonization ordinance
with Elevate which is not a union to my is elevate a union
commissioner.
Elevate is a nonprofit organization is ennard.
Elevate is a nonprofit organization is nrdc a union.
Nrdc is a non.
Nrdc is a nonprofit organization. It's slipstream a union.
slipstream is not Illinois p
Slipstream is not Illinois P ARG a union.
rewiring America a union
so they are not.
Is Sierra Club a union?
No, they are nonprofit is set us is Sida.
No, they are nonprofit is set us is is a task force. Excuse
me a union.
me a union so there are non.
password organ
Password organization. Okay is
daily strategy a union
No, they are not faith.
no, they are not faith in place a union know they
Are a non-profit organization? So all I see through 190
pages?
pages of
communication meetings and strategy are City officials.
communication meetings and strategy are City officials and
the groups that I just before mentioned
I don't see.
people's gas
I don't see Pipe Fitters. I don't see any of the labor
groups that.
groups that were talking about. So, how is it we can have a
conversation about Partnerships and collaboratively working
together.
crafting an Orden
Crafting an ordinance which throughout all of these
documents.
documents says let's discuss the campaign. Let's discuss
how we can tie this with the mayor's 15 million dollar.
how we can tie this with the mayor's 15 million dollar 1 to
4 family retrofit program. Let's talk about stakeholder
engagement. Let's talk about the actual language of the
ordinance. How is all of that possible Alder I would like
to
excuse me. I'm sorry.
How is all of that possible?
when
this document is done.
Half the gallery is filled with individuals whose lives are
at stake.
at stake and none of them have a seat at this table about
the very thing that we're discussing today.
and and I would
um, I would like to
I would like to clarify that I was brought in. I don't know
the time. I believe the timeline of those emails.
the time. I believe the timeline of those emails ended in
December when I was brought in with a draft.
December when I was brought in with a draft, uh sometime in
that time frame.
that time frame we immediately set out to bring in with the
draft language, uh several of the organiz.
draft language, uh several of the organizations. You just
listed to make sure that they had the language in front of
them and could share their concerns.
them and could share their concerns with us directly. So
and and all of those organizations have my cell phone
number.
number that that could reach me at any point in time.
number that that could reach me at any point in time as as
I have over several other concerns.
I have over several other concerns So to that point Miss
early you came in in December, correct? I came into this
conversation in December so all
conversation in December. So all of this has been going on
since June so we are talking about
several months of conversations engagement
putting together this ordinance
putting together strategy campaigns to engage to bring in
more stakeholders all
more stakeholders. All of this is being discussed for 6
months before.
months before we actually have a single conversation with
the 2 most impacted groups on this type on this topic.
the 2 most impacted groups on this type on this topic least
of not which is the impact on
Owners we're gonna pay the tax. May I uh Alderman Lopez if
you don't mind.
you don't mind, I I want to ask a clarifying question along
your line of questioning. Um, so since you've established
that uh, uh our deputy mayor started in December,
that uh, uh, our deputy mayor started in December, uh
again, I I do want to know while there are some changes
this is legislation that was in play last term so
wondering if uh, folks who uh predated who's whose tenure
have predated?
have predated that could you talk about conversations with
labor?
labor unions prior to June?
labor unions prior to June 2023, um, and it could be prior.
to uh this term. Um, if you have any context on that that
you want to share, um,
you want to share, um to address maybe some of the
Alderman's concerns,
sure, and I and I will say that um
Sure, and I and I will say that um, the recommendations are
from 202.
from 2022 and that is when we begin development of this
ordinance. Um, we've had a draft of this Orden.
ordinance. Um, we've had a draft of this ordinance for
quite some time, of course given the
quite some time, of course, given the mayoral transition
and given the opportunity.
and given the opportunity to align with the mayor's agenda.
Um, that was all very critical to us. So that's, you know,
something that has happened but the language mirror almost
mirrors, um, the same ordinance that we've been working on
for quite some time, which is a byproduct of a report that
was drafted where the recommendation from a diverse group
of stakeholders, including labor.
Recommended that we pursue a new construction ordinance.
emails in question are probably 1 of several engagements
that I have all the time.
that I have all the time on decarbonization. I'm not sure
what paramet.
what parameters you use to grab my emails. Um, it could
have just been tied to 1 organization or 2, but
have just been tied to 1 organization or 2. But um, there
are multiple organizations that can answer.
are multiple organizations that can answer that 1 it says
anything related to the clean and affordable buildings
ordinance and I engage with a lot of people on clean and
affordable buildings and my colleagues.
affordable buildings and my colleagues have mentioned we
provide presentations all the time. Of course we meet with
Community organizations. There are coalitions including the
groups that you have.
groups that you have mentioned that care deeply about
Equitable building.
Equitable building decarbonization in the city of Chicago.
So yes I have
So yes, I have met with them and I'm I'm very proud to say
that we do have robust engagement on this issue except with
the individual.
the individuals most impacted. So I guess the reason that
we're having this this I'm bringing this up.
is because of the fact that
on a number of different occasions
we've had conversations chairman about
working holistically with all of our partners on this
ordinance and on others.
I remember.
ask
Asking you very specifically commissioner if there.
Asking you very specifically commissioner if there was an
ordinance in the works for decarbonization.
ordinance in the works for decarbonization, and you told me
know.
now you're telling me this has been in the work for quite
some time.
So I'm really hard for us to know which.
So I'm really hard for us to know which version of the
truth I'm getting today.
It's not funny.
I wouldn't laugh because I asked this to you when you were
being named.
If I can refresh.
If I can refresh your memory when you were being named.
For the role that you had before being named as
commissioner.
commissioner in the role you are now because there were
issues of character that I brought up. I I just I'm not
going down that I'm going to give you.
going down that I'm going to give you a point of
clarification on that too as someone.
clarification on that too as someone who's 1 of the chief
aldermanic sponsors on this ordinance. Um,
aldermanic sponsors on this ordinance, um, because I
remember the conversation you're referring to and I want to
make clear that the people sitting in that box they serve
at the pleasure of the mayor whoever the mayor is um, and
at that time I can tell you
this Orden
this ordinance was not
in place and not not part of what Mayor Johnson had. Um, so
just to give you a point of clarification, so I can't speak
to if Tovar but I can say that that ordinance was not the
mayor's and as she works for the mayor I
mayor's and as she works for the mayor. I think her answer
at that time was honest.
I just want to lift that up. Um, we can double check but
I just want to lift that up. Um, we can double check, but I
know that.
Saying does this exist?
Saying does this exist and being told no and then finding
out that it?
out that it has existed for some time. It wasn't it wasn't
hers.
But it still existed regard.
But it still existed regardless who it was it still existed
not within the realm of her knowledge.
not within the realm of her knowledge, and I just want to
be clear. Do you have a more questions for our pan?
be clear. Do you have a more questions for our panelists?
Yes. It's a matter of fact. Let's move on with questions,
please.
and actually it's a matter of
And actually it's a matter of the engagement.
overall
Before I get on to other issues.
Because I think what we've seen.
Because I think what we've seen time and time again.
particularly
here
is that we are trying to and I quote stack the deck.
to move forward on things
To move forward on things without having a robust
conversation.
conversation today's conversation long as it will be
We are at the after point of this.
we are at the after point of this conversation.
this robust conversation all of the partners that I've
talked about and are missed should have been at the
beginning not the end.
and it's hard to
And it's hard to understand why we keep avoiding bringing.
in everybody in.
Because everybody's going to be responsible.
Because everybody's going to be responsible for making this
happen for making this work.
Choosing to go down a path simply for the sake.
Choosing to go down a path simply for the sake of saying
we're the first or getting this passed.
Doesn't make sense to me. I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna take some
umbrage with your line.
umbrage with your line of with your with your statements
here because 1 these aren't questions.
here because 1 these aren't questions and 2 you're you're
getting to the point and part of part of it. I'm going to
finish what I'm saying part of it is the low blood sugar.
I'm just going to confess here. I'm sorry. I'm part of it
is my low blood sugar. But I I do want to say
the legislative process
The legislative process we don't need a lecture on your
opinions on.
opinions on that. You're just using the space, honestly.
um, actually as a member of this committee, I'm impressing
my opinion if I had the right to do an absolutely.
Absolutely I do.
Absolutely. I do want to um,
uh without sounding condescending I want to
Uh without sounding condescending. I want to remind people
because we have the public here. This is how our
legislative process works and I will say in working.
partnering with colleagues and the mayor's office on this.
we're having this conversation because this is a
We're having this conversation because this is a draft. So
just to be clear for all of our guests for people.
just to be clear for all of our guests for people who don't
normally spend their time here in city council chambers.
You may hear people complain like they're doing now that
somehow this is a done deal this ordinance. It's not it's a
draft for a reason and part of this conversation is to give
everyone on the public record a space so that we can
actually make it better. We'll likely make changes to this
Orden.
ordinance. So it is des.
for you to make a claim that somehow this is not a
legitimate part of the collaboration. So we come to a draft
when we're ready to.
when we're ready to move forward on changes when we have
through working.
through working groups that have been convened over periods
of years when we have through legitimate studies when we
have through our very lived experiences.
have through our very lived experiences of knowing the
changes we need to make for our mission standard.
changes we need to make for our mission standards, um
something that we want to talk about. So all critiques are
completely fair right now and
completely fair right now, and then it's up to us and
working on the legislation to take your critiques and your
concerns and to try and come up with something that
addresses them. So this is not being pushed.
addresses them. So this is not being pushed for a vote.
That's why it's a subject matter hearing. That's why we
haven't even pushed to get it out of the rules committee
yet because we're still working in in progress. So if my
colleague would like to
continue expressing your opinion.
Ask your questions. Please be cognizant of other.
Ask your questions. Please be cognizant of others time, but
please don't try and um, I'll say color this legislative
process, which I am.
process, which I am taking personal offense to as I am
personally invol.
personally involved in I will do legis.
personally involved in I will do legislative interrupt me.
This legislative process is going to continue in the most
authentic.
authentic your bias is showing and transparent way your
bias is showing by interrupting only 1 person. We all have
bias.
biases well, but please continue but for the sake of
everyone else in the room know that this is a draft that's
how legislation works and we'll work.
how legislation works and we'll work on making amendments.
Um, I do want to point out that.
um, I do want to point out that no 1 has provided us with
any suggested amendments or substitute language, but we
will be working on that. There will be more stakeholder
meetings. I know we've got labor groups here who I've met
with personally.
with personally, and I've told you that we'll meet more and
we will um, so we'll have plenty of opportunities and I
invite um further. Um,
invite um further, um, uh suggestions to the legislation
from my colleague. Thank you.
from my colleague. Thank you for allowing me to thank
How many home builders how much did the home builders
contribute?
contribute to this?
the home build
The Home Builders Association was served on our working
group. Paul kogan was the representative at the time and
how much of his input was incorporated in this.
Paul the working group reached consensus and those
recommendations were were in the report.
I his.
I his individual contributions again managing 3 SE.
subgroups. I can't speak to anyone's individual.
subgroups. I can't speak to anyone's individual
contributions. Well, I I as I say that
commissioner because he testified.
commissioner because he testified against this.
and as I heard the managing commissioner building say
homebuilders has been very
Good at working with the Department on.
good at working with the Department on improving city codes
in the past and they've always spoken in favor of the same
things that they've worked towards.
things that they've worked towards So when you say they're
part of cons.
part of consensus.
How are people who are part of?
How are people who are part of consensus in opposition to
what they crafted?
And if you don't want to answer that, that's fine. I don't
have an answer to that sir.
I also have a question.
even though we said we weren't going to go down this route,
but Jared decided to take us there.
When you make statements as a department agree.
when you make statements as a department agreeing or
disagreeing with
say for example.
say for example, the ICC. Are you speaking on behalf of the
mayor?
I I'm not sure.
I I'm not sure exactly if I understand I I'll just say
this.
I I'm not sure exactly if I understand I I'll just say this
the Law Department files.
the Law Department files, uh briefs and testimony.
the Law Department files, uh briefs and testimony on behalf
of the city. And of course the Mets.
of the city. And of course the mayor leads the city, um,
but your statement earlier was that when we find policies
that we are agree or disagree with we will make our
opinions know such as the ICC case. Yeah. So so was that
the Mets
the mayor's opinion or was that your opinion when?
saying we I was referring to the city and the mayor leads
the city and that was the mayor's opinion.
opinion
I'm not actually.
I'm not actually sure which specific ICC case you're
talking about 1 that you reference, which was the people's
guess ICC case.
guess ICC case the the rate the rate payer case the most
recent. Um, you were at that point in time talking about
the the rate payer case, um around the safety work. So the
most recent filing and I think yes.
most recent filing and I think yes, if they're they're
working for the city of Chicago the mayor's the city of
Chicago.
Chicago that was the city of Chicago's opinion. Let's
establish that and move on, okay.
establish that and move on. Okay. I just want to make sure
because we have I wanted to make sure that we don't have a
rogue Department.
acting
not in the best Spirit of what we're trying to accomplish.
when I hear statements like that when I hear statements
about how we're stacking the deck when I hear statements
about collab.
about collaboration that doesn't exist when I hear that
we're talking about.
we're talking about black and brown communities like the
ones that I represent.
We are talking about real people.
and when I hear that we're we're trying to
And when I hear that we're we're trying to literally.
scare people because of dangers of gas
We're not having a conversation about the dangers of
increasing.
increasing nuclear power in the state of Illinois.
We're not having convers.
we're not having conversations about the fact that all of
those funding options which they reference but don't aren't
familiar with that. My colleague from the 34th Ward asked
about they do come.
asked about they do come with opportunities to do
replacement for app.
appliances and encouragement towards 50% Greenhouse
reductions.
reductions within 10 years the time frame that everyone
else is talking about is so much different than what we're
pushing here.
Because we're so desperate to be the first.
And I think Madam chairman, you know.
And I think Madam chairman, you know as we're continuing
down this.
conversation
this is not a draft this.
this is not a draft. This was an ordinance that was
introduced.
Had it not been sent to rules. It probably would have been
passed out already.
We are only here.
We are only here because we put the pause parliament in a
parliamentary.
parliamentary way. So to have this discussion.
So I think that we're we're here. I'm going to clarify as
the chair of this committee. We're here because I called
the subject matter.
the subject matter hearing and invited all these people and
my team spent a lot of time planning it. Um, I also uh want
to point out that we're not the first even had we passed it
just for a point of clarification.
just for point of clarification.
we have
We have to do better.
we have to
give the same space to those we don't agree with.
the same that we do
clearly we have a problem with that.
Lord knows I know
So we need to make sure that if you're trying to do
something for all.
something for all of Chicago if you're trying to go down
paths that you don't want to admit to like retrofitting
because clearly we are talking about.
because clearly we are talking about retrofitting existing
buildings. The mayor has a 15 million dollar program around
this.
we know what's
We know what's coming.
We know where the end result is.
We are not being truthful by just saying. Oh it's only for
these.
these 900 new buildings. There is an end goal.
these 900 new buildings. There is an end goal here that we
are not prepared for and if we continue down this path of
selectively choosing who gets to be a part of the
conversation we get to hear from who we get to interrupt.
We're going to create bad legis.
We're going to create bad legislation and policy for the
city of Chicago.
None of us want to be a part of that whether we're here.
None of us want to be a part of that whether we're here for
2 hours or 10 hours. We owe it to people.
2 hours or 10 hours. We owe it to people to get the job
done right the first time so that we can actually have a
functioning Chicago.
functioning Chicago that gets better stronger safer.
In the city. Thank you.
Thank you.
older person
Okay.
okay older person Lawson
and that's followed by Alder.
and that's followed by older person more and then manah
hoppenworth.
Thank you. Share haten. Uh, I appreciate the time and
everyone's patience. Um, I have a couple questions techn.
technically and then um, we'll go from there. So, um, I
appreciate the comments from Adrian morow.
appreciate the comments from Adrian marowski from the
Realtors earlier about the time Department.
Realtors earlier about the time department and um being a
pro growth Pro development person.
pro growth Pro development person myself that's always a
concern and that comes up every budget here.
concern and that comes up every budget hearing it comes up.
Uh, that's the reason I called the building department.
Most of the time is because there's a permit issue. So, um,
in looking at this and looking, um at the shifts that we
may need to make because the department um,
at what if whether that's an increase in hiring electrical
inspectors or uh an increase in
inspectors or uh, an increase in technology or or what what
steps we have to do as a city, uh, in order to to meet the
obligations of this ordinance.
yeah, so, I mean I heard the
Yeah, so, I mean I heard the story about a 2-year solar
permit.
permit in the 32nd Ward I believe was.
permit in the 32nd Ward. I believe was the testimony. I am
not familiar with that specific.
not familiar with that specific example. I know that under
our
32019 code there were some.
32019 code there were some structural Provisions about how
solar panels get attached to.
solar panels get attached to roofs for larger installations
that sometimes required people.
To go through a process of proving.
to go through a process of proving up their structural
approach so that the solar panels did not go blowing off
the roof and landing in the middle.
the roof and landing in the middle of Milwaukee Avenue Sew
through the roof, right? Yeah, right, so that would be a
bad thing. And so um for our smaller solar projects for
probably the Solar projects that most of your constituents
as homeowners try to get um, we have what was called solar
Express and we moved that to an even faster.
Express and we moved that to an even faster process in
November we've had hundreds
November. We've had hundreds of permits go through that
process. They're usually ISS.
process. They're usually issued in about a week. Um, so for
the smaller solar projects, they are straight forward if
they meet certain criteria for putting on small businesses
and single family homes up.
and single family homes up to
13.4
kilowatt hour, uh that now I'm not going to get the
measurement right because we have been up here for a little
while.
while small systems small businesses and small resident.
projects do have that Express solar process. It does go.
fast for larger projects. Um, it can be a little more
complicated. It is something that we do engage. There is a
solar industry Association. We do engage with them
periodically to talk about are there ways we could make our
code better. Um, but it's not just we trust you and go
ahead and do whatever you want. Um, it it is a
conversation.
especially for a larger more complex installation. So we're
always
willing to work on that as I said in
Willing to work on that as I said in response to alterman
Conway earlier the mayor.
Conway earlier. The mayor is committed to working on that
the executive order from Fall is going to result in
announcement very shortly. I don't think I want to make
news here.
No, no.
No, no, um, I I I appreciate that. Um, I actually need an
update there.
update there too. Um, so I I guess though just back to the
question on staff and and budget are there any movements
that the department anticipates that should take place, uh
based on the the requirement?
based on the the requirements of the ordinance. I mean, I
think through that EXE
think through that executive order process all departments
have been asked to provide feedback.
have been asked to provide feedback in a coordinated
process that is going to come out with some recommendations
and and next steps very soon from the mayor.
and and next steps. Very soon from the mayor. Right? Right,
right. No, I appreciate that. Um, I wanted to add to I know
uh in speaking to people in the industry that developers
they have all pretty much gone all electric in multi
family.
buildings. And um, I've got some clo
but I would love to see any data that
those and through the church fine. Uh, but those new
construction developments that are are choosing to ditch
gas. Um right now, um, and then 2, uh, what are those costs
look like for the Developers?
understand that. Um, but understanding too, you know the
project costs which are going through the roof regardless
of what we do here. Um, you know, if if there has been just
in the short time, we've seen that um, you know an increase
in the cost.
Yeah, so unfortunately to the data.
yeah, so unfortunately to the data question we tried to
think about ways to look at our data meaningfully to
discern what buildings we're ch.
discern what buildings were choosing to go all electric
versus electric ready.
versus electric ready versus
some other options from before that was mandated in the
code. Um our our data.
code, um our our data our permitting systems in terms of
the ability.
the ability to track that kind of data or discern it it
would require looking at you know hundreds of permit
applic.
application records individually, and we just don't have
the staff resources to go back.
staff resources to go back and do that data project. Um,
you know,
there. Um, you know, anecdotally I see me.
Um, you know, anecdotally I see me personally meet with all
of the largest projects as part of their permitting.
when they use what's called our developer Services per
permitting system. And so I do hear um, that's a question.
I often ask and do here that many of them are using to go
all electric um, because the consumer preference around
especially gas cooking is changing rapidly people who have
tried induction.
tried induction like it. Uh, I think commissioner Tovar
just got her induction range. I'm I'm looking forward.
mine. I have an induction hot plate that I I use from when
my gas was out for
2 and a half months, uh, and I'm looking forward to uh being
able to do that.
being able to do that larger kitchen remodeling to make the
permanent switch. Sure. So um in terms of the cost,
permanent switch sure. So, um in terms of the cost, um in
that conversation I had with developers yesterday morning.
No,
No 1 raised cost related issues. There are still some
supply chain related issues related to all
supply chain related issues related to All Things
electrical in terms of components.
electrical in terms of components of electrical systems,
but no 1's building an all gas.
but no 1's building an all gas building. Um, they have
electric for lights and probably lots of other functions in
the building. So those challenges of getting switchboards
and um Transformers for ComEd are not just local to
Chicago. Those are National ISS.
Chicago. Those are National issues and they affect all
developments so so actually, um, Deputy Commissioner that's
that goes into my next question. Um, if I get a call from a
new project about come,
new project about comed it's typically wait time for
hookup.
and we don't have anything I believe in this ordinance.
Correct me if I'm wrong that has any any sort of
sort of mandate as as far as you know, if you apply for a
service.
service, you know, it must be, you know connected Within.
service, you know, it must be, you know connected within 90
days like a liquor license if you apply 1 day we've got 90
days to get something out to you and so my concern is as we
talk about capacity, right? Um, I'm not worrying about the
the juice on the line as much as I am.
the juice on the line as much as I am the ability for these
buildings to get open to House people.
buildings to get open to House people in a reasonable
amount of time.
Um, so everyone's sort of shaking we don't have anything in
our ordinance that does that right?
All right. I think we need to look at it. We need to look
at it.
at it as a part of the combat. I'm sorry Jared. Yeah, I
just want to add 1.
just want to add 1 thing. No. No, we totally understand
what you're saying Alder law.
what you're saying Alder Lawson and just 1 thing. I'll
mention is that um, I I know I've talked about the grid
plan so, you know the city
plan. So, you know, the city is in the ComEd grid plan case
at the direction of the mayor the law department is filing
in it and 1 of the things that we just focused on is
my colleague who's in the in the audience.
my colleague who's in the in the audience, um, just
testified as to the importance.
testified as to the importance of making sure that their
grid plan is addressing this exact.
grid plan is addressing this exact issue altering Lawson
that there is very, um,
that there is very, um intentional coordination between
the city and other planning. Um AG
the city and other planning, um agencies as as well as as
ComEd and making sure that lag times that they're putting
in the resources to make sure that lag times um, aren't
aren't um, you know, excessive so we're we're in in in
alignment with you.
alignment with you and and would be happy to have more
conversation with you and ideas to make sure that that's
not a hiccup. Thank you just a couple of other quick
things.
um
we have
Rehabs are not included. Um, and I know uh, Deputy
Commission.
Commissioner alrich mentioned major remodeling is a tough
thing.
thing to Define. Um, I know and I mentioned this to Cher
hadn't um when we're rehabbing a commercial space.
hadn't um, when we're rehabbing a commercial space is a
certain percentage that requires. Um,
88 compliance. Uh, it's it's a percentage of value or a
certain dollar amount and I'm thinking of course the last
place I rented was a gut rehab.
place I rented was a gut rehab of a 20 unit building. I
referenced it a lot because it made sense.
referenced it a lot because it made sense for a branch
Chicago home too. Um,
do we want to look at that if it's a certain threshold of
multifamily if it's uh, you know, um a certain dollar
amount or do we want to park that maybe for now?
That discussion sure.
That discussion sure and I mean in some of that goes back
to the last answer.
to the last answer was often in those buildings even
they're a cosmetic gut rehab they are reusing an
electrical service. So we didn't necessarily want to
trigger.
trigger if they weren't already going to ComEd.
have to go to ComEd and wait for that connection time
because sometimes getting that upgraded service to an
existing building is a very different conversation than new
construction. Sure.
Sure. I got I I see you know 1, I mean that that's the the
greatest building I have is 1 that's been preserved, right?
Um, and so let's explore that and and we'll park that for
now. I just want to explore that. Um
I think I will just Echo some.
I think I will just Echo some of the concerns about major
additions and major institutions.
additions and major institutions hospitals universities, um
schools specific.
schools specifically, I think we need to to look at
separately from private multi family construction or single
family homes and
family homes. And so I'm I want to continue the
conversation there. Um, and also the conversation with
labor I know people doing the work, um, it's important for
all of us. Um, but I will say that I want to thank um, my
her. She has never said no, um, in fact we've had
scheduled pretty fast. Um, and the way that this is being
rolled out is is much more civil than I think a lot of the
things that we did very very quickly in the fall. Um, so I
appreciate your openness and your dialogue.
appreciate your openness and your dialogue, um, and tone
and uh,
uh, since this is going to a joint committee, I you know,
we're we're in lock step along the way. Um, so we'll keep
talking about everything and I appreciate the time. Thank
you.
Thank you, man.
All right, Alderman Moore.
Thank you madam. Chairman
Thank you. Madam. Chairman, I appreciate it so much and
just that was going to be my first point.
just that was going to be my first point Alderman lost and
I definitely command you chairman, um for um having this
hearing um, not you know, um doing like some others do push
things through and I I think that's the point that is very
critical.
critical here and so that we can hopefully get to a
collaborative situation where we can pass something.
collaborative situation where we can pass something that um
that we all can live with and know when we talk about
what's right or what's wrong.
what's right or what's wrong, um, many of us not even to
that level of Intelligence on this issue.
that level of Intelligence on this issue, um to say what's
right or wrong, but hopefully that's gathering enough
information to make a sound vote based on the information.
Um,
um that we have in the people that it's been involved.
to commissioner Tovar. Thanks for consistently want to
your doors.
Understand if we have any questions come to you that does.
understand if we have any questions come to you that does
mean that does mean a lot and and although, you know, some
of us haven't taken up for it to
of us haven't taken up for it. Totally. Uh, we probably
will but it's also it's about getting that know.
because if these are um areas where people just not a
student on you know, it's it's deep, you know, and so um,
um until you get the information and then you ask more
questions then you know, I just want to make sure that door
opened to a policy. Um,
opened to a policy, um stays there, um as autumn
opened to a policy, um stays there, um, as automated via
said, uh decarbonization is something that uh, we all want
and it's about you know, how do we um get there so,
me I'm a very moderate person. I'm not to the left not to
the right. Um, I just got to make sure that um the
constituents that I represent.
constituents that I represent and either the decisions that
I pass for people in the city of Chicago.
I pass for people in the city of Chicago, uh, I can go to
bed at night.
bed at night and sleep. Well knowing I made the best um
deck.
decision. So, um, I just want to say I appreciate all of
you the other
parts of this and and it's it may be a part statement a
part of question. I want to be careful.
part of question. I want to be careful of things that we
talked about I know health is
talked about. I know health is um critical, uh, but I don't
want to use fear tactics around this. Um, I I'm I'm parle,
Washington of be turning 104 years old in my award this
year. I'll be going there. She's used gas to her life
cooking green.
cooking greens and everything else. Um, Miss Holmes coming
up in the project.
up in the projects in Chicago with us. We have no
ventilation.
ventilation she about to hit.
101 and so my point is you know, uh as we talk about
101 and so my point is you know, uh as we talked about the
the the the if we're going to be talking about the health.
issue around, um gas we we got to be clear
issue around um gas we we got to be clear on that and
making sure that we're not using scare tact.
making sure that we're not using Scare Tactics because I
just don't know anybody who's lost life.
just don't know anybody who's lost life, but other than
getting burned, you know, so if there's something I don't
know and I'm ignorant on then make me aware of it.
know and I'm ignorant on then make me aware of it, but at
this point, I don't want to convolute the health issue with
um, some of the technical stuff that we have to get around.
So I just I just want to make that um clear um,
first, um
question and it and it comes in terms of having knowledge.
Uh, we talked about we use words like okay course.
gas, then we use, um, fossil fuel then we
gas, then we use. Um, fossil fuel then we use. Um, green.
What is it? Um,
somebody help me green Greenhouse
Somebody help me green greenhouse gas greenhouse gases.
Thank you.
What's what what's the difference start? Let me start there
if if somebody can summarize because then I just read uh
most natural gases.
most natural gases are uh vast majority of gases are fossil
fuels so
fuels. So if that means that all natural gas isn't then the
ones that isn't what is that natural?
ones that isn't what is that natural gas? And is it cleaner
than fossil fuel?
I can I can take your question. Um
I can I can take your question um in a couple of different
sections. Um, and so we um, fossil fuels so the burning of
Foss
fossil fuels
are um, the
are the largest source I
Are the largest source I apologize. I should um are
largest source of greenhouse gas emissions from Human.
activity in the United States.
So I that is something that has been shared by the US EPA?
um, and so we know that greenhouse gas emissions right
fossil fuels
Fossil fuels the burning of fossil fuels being 1 of them.
Um,
um are warming the Earth's temperature at a very rapid.
pace, which is contributing to climate change, which is
exceler.
accelerating climate change if that's helpful. Um,
accelerating climate change if that's helpful, um to your
point about the specific Natural Gas.
I I'd have to know.
I I'd have to know more about which specific Natural Gas.
that you're talking about know, I would just I
and it just said mostly natural gases are.
and it just said mostly natural gases are fossil fuels so
I'm asking so they are elements of natural.
fossil.
fossil fuels and I and that's why I'm asking a question.
Does that mean that?
as a because I'm hearing fossil fuel?
a bad gas is
that uh people's gas.
give you a quick 101 my um brief understanding
Is that when we talk about natural gas that?
is that when we talk about natural gas that term that's
actually a bundle of different um types of uh,
actually a bundle of different, um types of uh of chem of
gases that are used.
gases that are used in that phrasing natural gas that's
delivered to our homes. But um, I'm sure that they can
elaborate.
On what's delivered to our homes?
Okay, and and and and and just so I can clarify and I'll
take that but if is there just based on your knowledge and
if it isn't we can wait for people gas is there?
if it isn't we can wait for people gas. Is there any
natural gas that's clean.
natural gas? That's clean good gas.
Yes, if you don't don't feel like you have.
Yes, if you don't don't feel like you have the real way for
people's gas.
my other
My other question is getting to what Alderman Dow was
talking about and it was and everybody brought up here and
and and we were talking about the cost. So um, I
put it in the simplest terms because I always got to
back and I want to I got to you know, make sure people
talking to me like hey a second great.
talking to me like hey a second grader can understand it so
I know in man.
So I know in manufacturing when I was doing across the
county I have fixed costs.
And I have variable costs.
There's a fixed.
There's a fixed cost associated with.
gas here in the um the city or just this deal with the city
whether it's the fixed cost of you know, um, the land of
pipes whatever whatever that fixed cost is, so right now
there are people are numerous of people helping cover.
cost.
of that fixed cost so these new
homes
that um the new the new
that um, the new the new constructions that's going
towards.
um electric then would they be absolved from that fixed
cost and whereas the the part that they're covering. Where
is that cost going?
Yeah, I can get I can get us started here. Um, uh, so, uh,
yes.
yes there and again, you know, the company can certainly
provide.
provide additional detail here. Um, I encourage you to uh,
you know, follow up as needed with them. Uh,
you know follow up as needed with them. Uh, you know, my
understanding is people's gas has about 800,000 roughly
customers in the city of Chicago, right?
customers in the city of Chicago right now. Uh, and yes,
you're right that if Cabo passes,
you're right that if Cabo passes and someone builds a new
single family home.
single family home in 2029. Let's say yeah, they they
wouldn't need to be a customer. I'm not sure.
wouldn't need to be a customer. I'm not sure why they would
be a customer of people's gas. Um, and so they would not be
1 of the rate payers. That is um, you know responds,
1 of the rate payers that is um, you know responsible for
their little slice of the utilities.
their little slice of the utilities cost plus plus profit.
Um,
You're totally right there, I think.
the last thing I would say
The last thing I would say in response is um, you know, I
would go.
would go to the example of the Deputy Mayor early gave
about the the very managed.
bite-sized
Bite-size transition we're talking here. So you have 8000.
customers, uh at the moment that won't really change.
customers, uh at the moment that won't really change
necessarily and then you know you have
necessarily and then you know, you have the the small
amount of new buildings. That wouldn't
amount of new buildings that wouldn't necessarily become
customers it it'll take you know time for that to have any
real um in in our opinion impact.
real um in in our opinion impact on that existing base and
And that's the time that we should all be using to study.
how to go about a transition for the existing.
how to go about a transition for the existing customers and
our existing buildings in a responsible way and like I I
I'm not sure if you I think you were here for I
that that work actually got kicked off Monday at the
Illinois Commerce Commission where they started this big
discussion called future of gas in in, Illinois.
discussion called future of gas in in Illinois, and I and I
appreciate that answer and and and that's what we have to
get to the based on the number whether it passes in
or 2. Um, hey, David,
or 2. Um, hey David now that this fixed cost is going to be
2 2 cent more whatever that is and and 202.
up to 8 cent more. We need to extrapolate.
up to 8 cent more. We need to extrapolate that so we are
communicating based on the fact.
communicating based on the fact of how many think people
that we think we're going to be coming.
that we think we're going to be coming on each year and
then how much of that cost Miss Jones is going to be.
absorbing more. So let let's begin because that's going to
be part of my decision making on how to you know vote for
this. So if I if I if I have that information, um, that
would be helpful. The other thing is uh question is when
talk about the organization and and I heard this goal of
62% of greenhouse gas.
62% of greenhouse gas emissions by 2040.
so
that's by 2040. Are we then?
That's by 2040. Are we then necessary reduction by 2040 so
are we looking at a I guess we're looking at.
are we looking at a I guess we're looking at some increment
each year.
and
And how does that happen with?
whether Iowa
Wisconsin and Indiana
are not doing this because I used to work for Fairy steel
and I used to be at be
and I used to be at Bethlehem still a whole lot.
and all that was coming to
Illinois, so how does help?
Illinois, so how does help explain that and then who's how
we know what?
we know what we cut when?
I'm getting this from Iowa.
I'm getting this from Iowa Bethlehem Steel, and you know,
I'm not about I'm still but Indiana and everywhere else, so
please address that for me.
Sure. Well, I I'll begin.
Sure. Well, I I'll begin by talking a little bit about the
climate action plan to say that that's our.
climate action plan to say that that's our road map and it
it involves a a 2 2, you know address green.
emissions reduction and then um to also think about those
important elements of how we can drive co- benefits like
cost-savings like improved air quality like access to
critical trans.
critical transport, uh infrastructure across many different
strategies.
different strategies, so it's not just a building's
roadmap. It's
map. It's a it's a road map that looks at our
sources of emissions in the city of Chicago and
about a suite of actions some of which were were already
making tremendous progress on.
making tremendous progress on so we talked about, you know
transportation.
Transportation, um, emissions reductions. We talk about
waste em,
waste emissions reductions in that report. We talk about
buildings.
buildings emissions reductions in that report. We talk
about advancing clean energy just renewable energy broadly
as the city and what the that potential can be.
talked about tree planting.
And a lot of the work that you've seen in terms of our
programmatic investments.
programmatic investments, um over the course of many years
our Guided by that.
our Guided by that climate action plan. Um, we as the city
are doing um climate action plan and many other cities
across the country. And in fact, the United Nations has
their own commitment right to Net Zero by 2050, so
their own commitment right to Net Zero by 2050. So, um, we
see government all levels of government that make these
plans as their policy commitment.
plans as their policy commitment to address greenhouse gas
emissions. Um, and so that is what we did.
emissions. Um, and so that is what we did with the 2022
climate action plan is you know,
climate action plan is, you know through a robust
stakeholder Pro.
stakeholder process, um allowed for the city to better
understand the priorities and the um ambition of the people
in the city.
in the city and to design a strategy and a roadmap.
in the city and to design a strategy and a roadmap that was
aligned with those principles and to say, you know, here's
a suite of strategies that we are confident that we can
pursue.
to make the city more live
to make the city more livable and healthier and um and that
we can all thrive in the future.
we can all thrive in the future to your point about. Um,
sorry. Oh I I
sorry. Oh, I I I you may be getting to this, but I want to
I want to really get to
want to really get to the meat of the question. How do we
measure our emissions and track it? I think that's a
specific to the city of Chicago. I'm assuming some of its a
some of this might get really technical because I don't
know the answer to this question either.
know the answer to this question either, uh, uh, Alderman
Moore
But I think that's the question is.
But I think that's the question is we we've got our
reduction goals and you've explained. Uh, well how we get
to our reduction goals how
to our reduction goals. How do we actually know how much
Chicago what how do we develop these? Um,
uh estimates on our carbon emissions in order to be able to
do it. So, how do we
do it. So how do we say this is Chicago's emissions so we
have um, we we track, uh greenhouse gas em,
have um, we we track uh greenhouse gas Emissions on a
3-year Cadence, um on a what on a 3 at every 3 years we uh
track greenhouse gas emissions and we put forth a green
greenhouse gas emissions inventory, um this year and to
your point about the importance of really understand.
your point about the importance of really understanding
where the emissions came come from. We we actually
partnered with cmap. Um, the Chicago metropolitan Agency
for planning. Um, we wanted to track the city's emissions
to better understand. Um, but we also wanted to look at it
from a regional lens to understand how Northwest, Indiana
and everyone, you know in the MSA from Northwest, Indiana.
uh to Southern Wisconsin was doing in terms of emissions as
well. So this um, past greenhouse gas emissions to
inventory is more comprehensive so that we can start
Shining Light.
Shining Light On
The actions relative to the actions of others, um in the
region as well.
And so so we have been having that conversation.
And so so we have been having that conversation you saying
regionally?
is that what I'm
Is that what I'm hearing in this?
Yeah. Yeah, and I well yes, and I wanted to add 1 last
thing for you to think about.
for you to think about which is that the the thing that's
really nice about having the IRA in place. Is that the
this?
sort of free loading that you're kind of pointing to
because this is a global problem, but if not everybody's
working on it.
working on it 1 nice thing about the IRA is if you choose
not to work on it, you're not getting paid by the IRA to do
so. So for example, like alderwoman lie, I was talking to
her about the rebate program that's coming down the pike if
Iowa decides they're not going to participate in that
program the
program. The federal government will just redistribute that
to all the states that like, Illinois that are going to
participate in it. We just applied the department of
environment for a really large Grant in the I
environment for a really large Grant in the ira, uh on
Monday, uh Northern
Monday, uh, Northern Indiana could have also applied.
chose not to apply with us because they have their own
pressures there as you know as we know so at least the IRA
provides this context of we're going to pay you if you're
if you're working on this problem, which gets
um second to last question
in terms of
tax credits and and are
Tax credits and and are we working with uh Congressional
leaders?
leaders both Congress and Senate?
to make sure
To make sure because this is what it to me the choice and
then us moving forward.
then us moving forward we can get in is if I'm offering.
developers not just loans.
Not loans, but grants or tax incent.
Not loans, but grants or tax incentives to go this way.
Then we can do further.
Then we can do further research before you know as we
continue to look.
going moving forward
Going moving forward, you know as as a city as a as a um
hold.
hold as a in this city.
how those conversations are going in and I'm because I'm
How those conversations are going in and I'm because I'm I
heard loans in here, but I'm not hearing a lot about tax.
credits and grants and offering these Developers.
credits and grants and offering these developers to go that
way on their own as a choice and then from there.
way on their own as a choice. And then from there we can
get do more studies.
Well, there are an abundance of clean energy.
Well, there are an abundance of clean energy tax credits
that are available through the inflation reduction.
that are available through the inflation reduction act.
It's 2 our knowledge that um our congression.
It's 2 our knowledge that um our Congressional, um that our
Congressional leaders are very
our Congressional leaders are very supportive of the
inflation reduction act. Um,
inflation reduction act. Um again, this is the largest
climate investment that we've seen in in the history of the
United States, right and we know that it can um has the
potential to drive um billions of dollars into the local
econom.
economy. Um, I will say that I would can speak with
confidence that I was just at an event with uh, Congress
Davis who joined me um in
Davis who joined me, um in Elder woman Lee's District to
announce the grand.
announce the grand program for the
green resilient retrofit program
Green resilient retrofit program. Um, and he was there in
support and then as jar
support and then as Jared mentioned as we um have convened
to think about a regional coalition.
to think about a regional Coalition, um for this grant
program that he mentioned through the inflation reduction.
act. We as the city have solicited the feedback and support
from our congressional district as well.
from our congressional district as well to ensure that
we're aligned with their priorities those conversations.
we're aligned with their priorities those conversations are
going really well. Um, everybody loves the inflation
reduction act because it's money in the economy and we
to continue to have those conversations and maintain
relationships with our federal Partners as well. Yeah, I
just want to make sure that we pursue that real
aggressively at getting that money because whether it's
Indiana or Iowa or Wisconsin who who may not be
participating in this that if we're in a city of Chicago
and and we're getting those dollars here to give
incentives.
to build and then uh, I think you know, I think we can try
to get to you know, some of the point we can some of the
places we're trying to get to without
force and I think I think we need to really
Force and I think I think we need to really look at that,
you know, and this thing is just about collabor.
you know, and this thing is just about collaboration and
the best way to do this my my last question.
the best way to do this my my last question comes with
a um job creation data from the White House 120,000 people
employed. Now, is that just a number you all taken from
them? So if somebody know that 122000 in reference and then
lean it on it of those 120,000 jobs, uh, can you get
through the chair?
What What ethnicity make up of those?
What What ethnicity make up of those 120,000 jobs who got
those jobs because we could talk about job creation all we
want but if people on the south and the west side are not
privy to getting those jobs.
privy to getting those jobs what the I don't know what I'm
fighting for. And so pleased with that 120,000.
number was given and somebody we know it emphatic.
number was given and somebody we know it emphatically was
she able to get it us, uh,
she able to get it us, uh by by ethnicity who has those
120,000 jobs. So if you can provide that through the jet
that will be very helpful. That's all the questions. I have
Madam chair. Thank you so much. Thank you.
All right, last but not least. Uh Alderman I'll hop in
work.
thank you chair firstly I want to
Thank you chair firstly I want to thank you for leading us
through this.
through this very important conversation and and I agree
with uh colleagues who spoke.
with uh colleagues who spoke before me including Lawson and
um more of that.
um more of that tone matters if we want to achieve what we
need to do and um, and I believe that this will be
transformational. Um,
Uh, I agree with alderwoman.
Uh, I agree with alderwoman Dal towards that end and I'm I'm
very proud to be.
very proud to be a co-sponsor of Cabo. I want to thank my
uh constituents who came from 4.
uh constituents who came from 48th Ward to speak in favor
of this and that's that is um,
that is basically the the representation of of my ward and
in Edgewater and up.
in Edgewater and Uptown on the lakefront that that we want.
to see uh,
a solution, you know as 1 of them said we've known that
this has been a problem for for a very long time since the
daily years.
daily years and that the decarbonization of buildings.
daily years and that the decarbonization of buildings can
make a huge difference. So what are we waiting for?
um
thank you for
Thank you for um now we're 2 hours and 45.
Thank you for um, now we're 2 hours and 45 minutes in it
was a long time ago that you gave.
was a long time ago that you gave a presentation. So thank
you for that. Um,
you for that. Um Angela, I was wondering you.
you for that. Um Angela, I was wondering you spoke really
briefly about a development Lehrer report.
yeah, could you can you say why you brought it up and
Yeah, could you can you say why you brought it up and what
it what does that have to do with what we're talking about
today?
Sure, so the Clare courts.
Sure. So the Clare quarts is our the city of Chicago's
first net.
first net energy positive school. So it's just an exciting
development.
development and I think a showcase a very innovative.
Technologies that we as a city can bring that.
Technologies that we as a city can bring that are zero to
low carbon emissions. Um, the the interesting thing about
Lair courts,
Lair courts. Um, the school is built on um C, CA
There's a surrounding community that it benefit.
There's a surrounding community that it benefits and um the
way that the
the way that the the project came about is that um as
school the academy for Global Citizens,
school the academy for global citizenship as well as
several nonprofit organizations,
several nonprofit organizations came together to say, you
know, we want to create this learning institution on top of
that we want to serve um this community that has a
in health services. And so this is a school that their
curriculum is sustainability Focus.
curriculum is sustainability focused. They do a lot of
work, um both in the curriculum and just weaved into their
operations. Um,
operations, um to really keep a low car.
carbon footprint so as they thought about this transition
and expansion to this cultivate Collective Health hub.
which is the the Coalition body of of the the nonprofits in
the schools that make up. Um,
the schools that make up, um, the cultivate Collective they
wanted to think about, you know, really significant
opportunities.
opportunities to demonstrate clean energy and
They exceeded their goal. Uh, not only did they um, are
they, you know advancing renewable energy techn.
they, you know, advancing Renewable Energy Technologies.
Um, I know that there are geothermal Wells there. Um, there
are a number of different systems that are pretty
impressive. Um, and again, it's net energy positive. So
they're generating.
they're generating more that they're using which is also
very exciting. So certainly, you know a fascinating place
to visit and to you know, think about a model for how we
build future developments in the city.
build future developments in the city using you know, a
wide range of techn.
wide range of Technologies to meet that our um zero to low
carbon.
carbon ambitions.
Thank you for that and I
Thank you for that. And I and I do appreciate uh, Alder.
kson saying, um that we need to bring more voices.
kson saying, um that we need to bring more voices into the
room including our new Commissioners from the Department of
development and our and our Housing Commission.
development and our and our housing commissioner to I think
that um, you know in the 40th word, we we are very dense
Ward and and so development, um isn't happening at the
rate.
where there are more vacant lots for instance, but the
parcels of land that we have available that may become
available after the you know, the uh, red purple
modernization wrap.
modernization wraps up in a couple years. We would we would
love to see something like that happen.
love to see something like that happen, you know following
a model like that because that that's really what people
are asking for they they want. Um,
are asking for they they want um, and as my constituents
said, you know,
said, you know our our air,
In the 40th word. It's very different.
In the 40th word. It's very different from the air in the
10th Ward where I was born.
10th Ward where I was born, you know, and that's wrong. So
we have to find ways.
we have to find ways, um within our structures to to fix
that and this is 1 way to do that. Um, and at the same time
I also um, I'm curious to know how conversations could have
happened if there were more voices in the room when you
started these conversations in 2022 with your working
groups. Um, I I could say that my developers that have been
talking to my office.
talking to my office in the short time that we have been
there since May. Um, actually we just started a a zoning
advis.
advisory committee and uh, and we have a process and truly
when they come to us with their projects. Um, they are
coming already with um with all of these um initiatives,
already in place. We don't have to ask them. They really do
want to fall in line with the uh with climate action plan.
Um,
But but going back at the same.
But but going back at the same time. I am I am uh curious
to know.
to know, you know, what those future conversations are
going to look like.
going to look like who's going to be at the table. Um, you
know, how are we ensuring that we are actually creating
more jobs, uh, green jobs. Um,
more jobs, uh, green jobs, um, not losing, um labor
um along the way because that's how we were
Um along the way because that's how we were built. You know,
Chicago is a labor town. So, um, I I just wanted to put
that out there.
that out there and um also say thank you for all the work
including all of the um, nonprofits who have stepped up who
shared all of their stories, you know, their lived
experiences really are the way that we are going to learn
from this and I and I would definitely like to go visit the
LL.
from this and I and I would definitely like to go visit.
Thank you.
So we are at the end of the first segment, which I'm
telling.
telling you will be the longest segment. Um, we're at
end of the first segment, uh, the others will probably be a
little bit shorter. Uh, but just to remind people of what's
coming up. So next up. We're going to have ComEd
coming up. So next up we're going to have ComEd after ComEd
we'll have people's gas. Um,
we'll have people's gas. Um after people's gas. We're going
to hear from
going to hear from um, some supporting environmental
organizations.
organizations and after the supporting environmental
organizations. We're going to hear from multiple labor
Partners who are bringing some concerns. Um, so please
stick around
we're taking a brief like 2 minute just enough of a little
bit of a break to allow folks to switch out. I do want.
note that um the commissioner, uh commissioner
note that um, the commissioner, uh, commissioner Tovar and
Jared are going to stick around for the entirety.
presentations though. I would encourage you both to feel
free to take a short break for some food and then
sneak back into the box, uh, once we're in process since
you won't be doing the presenting. Um, so 2 minutes we'll
be right back and can our guests from ComEd who are
presenting, please um, meet my staff at
presenting please um, meet my staff at the box. Thank you
to the uh mayor's
with my daughter
a lot of the questions
go to the
right and with um
where's the
Where's the yeah, where's the water?
Oh.
all right, we're ready to
All right, we're ready to reconvene.
All right. I think we are ready to Recon.
All right. I think we are ready to reconvene. Uh, so party
people in the back.
people in the back, uh,
uh, let's uh, get a little quiet again as we uh bring
our next guest for Segment 2, so we're going to hear test.
testimony from our guests with ComEd about grid
reliability.
and what role they play in supporting a more sustainable.
future for Chicago with that. I'm going to turn it over to
Scott.
Scott vote and Jim Ortega from kmed. Um, please take a
moment to introduce yourselves, uh before you speak and
thank you for joining us today.
Thank you. Uh, good afternoon chair.
Thank you. Uh, good afternoon chairperson Haden Vice chair
kutson and members.
kutson and members of the committee and Environmental
Protection and energy and City.
Protection and energy and city council. My my name is Scott
vote. I am Vice.
vote. I am vice president of strategy and energy policy for
ComEd. I'm joined.
ComEd. I'm joined today with my colleague Jim Ortega
director of grid Analytics.
Thank you for inv.
Thank you for inviting us to present today.
As communities evaluate new strategies to reduce carbon.
emissions and meet climate targets for a cleaner.
emissions and meet climate targets for a cleaner future. We
are pleased to provide some insight into our ability to
serve those electrification Technologies.
And to provide insight into the makeup of the Jenner.
that is serving our grid and providing power to our
customers.
Comment is the largest.
transmission and distribution utility in the Midwest
Uh, we deliver.
Uh, we deliver electricity to 4.2 million customers and
more.
more than 9 million people in the Chicago metropolitan Reg.
region and across Northern third of, Illinois.
including the 2.6 million residents
Including the 2.6 million residents of Chicago.
we
We do not own or operate generation.
In fact the power that we deliver to our
in fact the power that we deliver to our customers, we only
buy about 30% of most of our customers that are were.
serving in the load that we're serving are buying power
from alternative suppliers, um through the robust wholesale
energy Market that we have here.
energy Market that we have here in, Illinois.
Investments in our infrastructure have yielded strong
performance improvements?
performance improvements helping customers avoid over 21
million outages and Landing ComEd recognition as the most
reliable electric utility in the US.
customers today historically
Customers today historically have shorter and fewer out.
customers today historically have shorter and fewer outages
in Chicago our reliability
in Chicago, our reliability in 2023 was 1 of the best years
on record and we look forward to going into more detail
during the city's upcoming annual summer preparedness hear.
hearing.
Comet is committed.
Comet is committed to supporting our customers clean energy
choices including.
choices including their adoption of Energy Efficiency and
electrified techn.
electrified Technologies.
our economy is decarbonizing and
Our economy is decarbonizing and the future is carbon-free
electricity.
This transition away from fossil fuels is changing what
customers?
customers are powering in their homes how they
power and when they consume it.
climate change because compels us to reduce our
Climate change because compels us to reduce our Reliance on
fossil fuels that create carbon emissions and Air.
fossil fuels that create carbon emissions and air pollution
threats to our economies our health and our well.
threats to our economies our health and our well-being the
climate inequitable jobs act sets.
climate and Equitable jobs act sets the framework to
decarbonize the power sector by 245 there have been many
comments already this morning.
comments already this morning that allude to the future of
power and generation and the sources of power.
power and generation and the sources of power on our grid
and the capabilities.
and the capabilities of the grid and that's what I intend
to talk to today.
to talk to today, uh in a little more detail.
1 of the ultimate already said today or ask the question
about how much power is created in our service?
about how much power is created in our service territory
and where it goes and it's set up this slide.
and where it goes and it's set up this slide for me very
well.
in 2023 127 terawatt Hours
In 2023 127 terawatt Hours and a terawatt hour is a billion
kilowatt.
kilowatt hours 127 terawatt Hours.
kilowatt hours 127 terawatt Hours were produced in our
service territory. Not the state of, Illinois.
service territory. Not the state of Illinois, but in our
service territory which includes about the northern third
of, Illinois
our customers consumed 88 terawatt hours
39 terawatt hours or 31% of the Jenner
39 terawatt hours or 31% of the generation produced in our
service territory was exported to other markets across the
country.
pretty
Pretty much every hour of every day. We are pushing power
and other markets that are
in other markets that are being utilized and 1 of the
alderman.
alderman was talking about the impacts of what happens in
our service territory versus others.
our service territory versus others and how do you really
track climate change from 1 region?
track climate change from 1 region to another and it's
important to recognize that in our service territory of
those 12.
those 127 terawatt Hours that are produced 99 of them are
carbon-free generation, and that is a
carbon-free generation and that is a makeup of wind solar.
carbon-free generation and that is a makeup of wind solar
and of large amount of nuclear.
and of large amount of nuclear generation in that mix. So
if you looked at this just on an annual basis and you look
at this chart over to the left and you see 99 carbon free
terawatt hours and 88 terawatt hours of consumption.
would say there's more than enough clean Jenner.
would say there's more than enough clean generation to
serve all the needs of our customers when they consume it,
but that's really not true and in particular with this
ordinance.
Have to dive deeper and we need to look at the season that's
going to be.
going to be most affected when we look at. Um the Cabo
ordinance.
ordinance as it's been said many many times so far.
ordinance as it's been said many many times so far today.
It's about new construction.
It's about new construction and new customers and how that
load is going to.
load is going to be used, but it's largely going to be.
heating.
As we all know heating occurs in the winter.
So 1 of the gentlemen this morning.
So 1 of the gentlemen this morning said comments grid is
built for the summer.
built for the summer and that is 100% true. We have to
build our grid to meet the demands of our customers in the
season where most of the power is consumed.
and most of that power consumption and Peak demand of
consumption occurs in the summer when you're all running
your air conditioners.
as heating changes
we will start to see some of that power used in the
We will start to see some of that power used in the winter.
So when we dive into the winter and we look at the make.
of the generation in the winter, we want to look at. Well,
what's the availability of clean Jen to serve the new?
that we're talking about here today?
In the winter. We have 32 towit hours of Jenner.
In the winter. We have 32 towit hours of generation in
Northern, Illinois.
And we only consume.
And we only consume 22.
So we're exporting 10. It's a higher percentage of the
total generation.
total generation being exported in the winter.
Than in the total.
Than in the totality of the year or in the summer because
of that.
of that reduction in load and that load.
of that reduction in load and that load that usage that
consumption and I apologize. Um, I try not to use the
acronyms in the terms.
acronyms in the terms that utilities use all the time and
like I can't help myself. So please call me on that and
check me on that if I use a term.
but that consumption those 22 terawatt hours of consumption
is much lower in the winter because 80% of our customers
are heating with natural gas today.
But the grid is built for are.
But the grid is built for air conditioning load which
leaves us with additional.
leaves us with additional capacity.
and when you look
And when you look closer at the makeup of the generation in
the winter, you'll see.
the winter, you'll see 22 terawatt hours of nuclear 4.
terawatt hours of wind. We actually have more wind clean
generation available in the winter than the summer.
and that makes sense because if you think about a cold
And that makes sense because if you think about a cold
winter day in Chicago the winds.
winter day in Chicago the winds normally blowing.
On the coldest day of the year. We talk about wind chills.
It's in the summer. It's hot because the wind is not
blowing.
blowing the the air is not moving. So it feels much worse.
so
So we export 10 ter hours in the winter.
So we export 10 ter hours in the winter and we have more
generation available.
for heating
For heating to power heating load in the winter.
and then but it's even this looking at it from a from a
seasonal perspective is not enough to really get to the
granularity.
granularity of of the capacity of the system and
because we really need to look at it on an hour by hour.
basis because we need to see how much power.
basis because we need to see how much power is available at
that peak time of day when customers are using their most
amounts of power.
So if we look at the the next
so if we look at the the next slide this is the average
winter day, and this is for this most recent, uh,
season from December 1st 2023 to februari.
season from December 1st 2023 to february 2024. I
arbitrarily defined.
arbitrarily defined winter as those 3 months because I like
the way March was going um a little while ago anyway and
on the average winter day, you can see that our load um is
much less than than generation available. And in fact if
you look on an average hour by hour basis against the
makeup,
makeup of the load in the service territory or the
generation of the service territory on an hour by hour
basis, there's enough clean generation between wind and
nuclear to serve every hour.
nuclear to serve every hour of the day as we move through
the winter.
as we
add load or new consumption for the decarb.
add load or new consumption for the decarbon or ordinance.
I'm confident that it will take.
I'm confident that it will take many many new Rez.
many many new buildings before we start to eat.
many many new buildings before we start to eat into that
available capacity of clean.
available capacity of clean generation that we currently
have on the system and as we look,
have on the system and as we look farther into the future,
we know the climate.
we know the climate energy jobs. Act is going to require
that all Generation by 2045 B clean.
so to the extent that load
because of cold temperatures
goes above the available clean resources we
goes above the available clean resources. We will power
that incremental electricity.
that incremental electricity with natural gas resources.
necessary until the time that those natural.
necessary until the time that those natural gas generation
systems are no longer allowed to operate.
systems are no longer allowed to operate in Illinois, which
is around
2045 by Statute and it'll start to phase.
2045 by Statute and it'll start to phase out in around
2030.
the next thing
The next thing we really wanted to talk about then was
well, what's the peak Demand on the system? What's the
capacity of the grid?
capacity of the grid of the wires the Transformers?
capacity of the grid of the wires the Transformers to move
power to customers as they use it?
power to customers as they use it as you start to Electrify
as I said.
as I said earlier we are built.
to serve power on the hottest days
Our all-time system Peak was 23.8.
Our all-time system Peak was 23.8 gigawatts.
that occurred in 201
That occurred in 2011.
This past summer.
when it was
100 degrees and 115 degree heat index on August 28th
our Max Demand on the system was 22.5.
gigawatts
Lower than our all-time Peak.
lower than our all-time Peak and that's because over the
last 14 years. We have investing.
last 14 years. We have investing heavily every year in
Energy Efficiency.
Energy Efficiency and uh distributed generation resources,
which reduce load on the system providing more.
which reduce load on the system providing more available
capacity.
as we build for the summer and we look at the
As we build for the summer and we look at the winter and
because of what I talked about about home.
because of what I talked about about home heating and how
customers Heat their homes. Our maximum all-time winter
Peak was 16.5 gigawatts.
Peak was 16.5 gigawatts in 2014, if you remember 2014 was
the polar vortex. It was a horrible winter.
the polar vortex. It was a horrible winter, uh snow on the
ground for like 60 days.
ground for like 60 days, um brutally cold.
if we just look at our maximum multi Peak versus the winter
all-time Peak that is 7 gigawatts of available capacity in
our system.
that 7 gigawatts amounts to about 1 million heat pumps 1
million residential heat pumps before the capacity on the
system.
system equals the capacity that we serve regularly.
system equals the capacity that we serve regularly every
summer.
These are our tested limits and I I say limit is probably
the wrong word. These are measured Max.
the wrong word. These are measured maximums. We know we
have more capacity on the system.
have more capacity on the system than that because we are
continually adding.
continually adding investing growing the system to meet our
customers needs. Um,
I have no doubt that we have the capacity of available.
I have no doubt that we have the capacity of available and
clean energy available to meet the needs.
clean energy available to meet the needs of the Cabo
ordinance, uh based on the limits to new construction.
and that
And that over time we've talked about this a lot today
about.
about what this transition looks like if if we
go down this path, but
Go down this path, but because 80% of our customers are.
heating, uh with natural gas.
heating, uh with natural gas and a 0.5% growth rate of new.
customers and new customer load is not going to chip away
at that clean.
at that clean energy advantage and capacity advantage that
Northern Illinois has over most markets across the country.
as Chicago leaders evaluate
As Chicago leaders evaluate decarbonization policies. ComEd
stands ready to provide technical analysis on grid impacts.
comed's grid is equipped to serve the electric equation
needs of today given the limited nature and proposed
ordinance.
ordinance new construction and significant building
additions in the except.
additions in the exceptions provided without question. Our
grid is well.
grid is well equipped to take on additional load with
available clean energy.
Thank you chair Haden and committee members for inviting me
to speak with you today. We are happy to answer. Uh any
questions.
questions that the committee may have for us.
Thank you very much for the presentation.
Thank you very much for the presentation, um opening the
floor to questions.
All right. I've got older Lawson.
All right. I've got older Lawson first and then just let me
know if you guys have questions.
Uh, thank you chair. I actually just have a question.
this slide right here, um in your service territory it
looks like 27% of multi-family buildings.
looks like 27% of multi-family buildings have no central
heating. Could you explain
Yeah that we don't we haven't been.
Yeah that we don't we haven't been able to gather the data
of what their central heating is, so it's either.
of what their central heating is. So it's either a missing
data or it's a centrally located heating that's not
specific to the individual.
specific to the individual, uh residence involved in a
multi-unit.
multi-unit building.
great for for clar
Great for for clarification then that that would make sense.
So let's say right my 22 unit building. You don't have the
data on how I'm heating my individual unit because we use
like a a central boiler system.
we use like a a central boiler system, correct? Okay.
Okay, that's it. Thank.
Okay, that's it. Thank you.
sorry, um, I
Sorry, um, I asked this of the last group, um the complaint
I get about.
I get about ComEd for new construction. And if you heard me
was it's
you heard me was it's the delay. Um, and so while I have
you what are we doing to address that now and what would be
anticipated greater need going forward? Yeah, and you you
hit on it as I was sitting in the audience listening to you
that the issue is an industry-wide issue and in fact the
the Biden Administration is trying to figure out do
invoke a uh defense protection in
invoke a uh, defense protection act measured to accelerate
production and trans
production and Transformers.
um what we have done at ComEd and Jim can talk to it a
little bit more but
What we started doing last year.
What we started doing last year in the year before when we
started to see this shortage of transform.
started to see this shortage of Transformers.
We went out and started harvesting trans.
We went out and started harvesting Transformers from vacant
vacant.
vacant customers or places where there's no longer.
necessary. So we are harvesting them moving them and trying
to um, accelerate the
to um accelerate the connection of those customers as
quickly as possible.
to the extent that still because of every customer's
different as we have to evaluate a large customer building
is not something where you can pull a can Transformer off
of a pole and move it you need a big
of a pole and move it. You need a big Transformer and
they're largely special order.
So we've been looking at Solutions like pre-ordering
Transformers and holding more transformed.
Transformers and holding more Transformers and inventory to
try to cut down now that is something that we have to work
out through the grid plan because that means we're spending
Capital dollars to acquire inventory and how are we going
to recover those costs of the inventory and that is
something that we're addressing um in in the grid.
something that we're addressing, um in in the grid plan and
something that we're seeing.
In particular around really large customers there.
In particular around really large customers. There is a lot
in the industry right now around data.
in the industry right now around data centers and Ai, and
we're going to see really large loads starting to come.
Northern, Illinois because of the slide I showed of
abundance of electricity because other markets are starting
to run.
to run out of that.
So we are.
So we are pre-ordering some of those large transfer numbers
in some.
in some cases those Transformers Take 2 years to produce
their maid.
their Maiden Sweden and they're shipped on a barge and then
they have to go on.
they have to go on a a train to get into Chicago. So it's
it's not an easy solution, but we are aware of it and we're
working hard every day to try and put our hands on
additional Transformers.
Great, I appreciate the creativity there. Um and uh, I know
you'll stay plugged in as this rolls out, right?
you'll stay plugged in as this rolls out right? Thank you.
Alder
Um, and thanks for sticking with us.
Um through all of this. Um, I
I mean a pickup just kind of where this conversation is
now, just so that I don't have a circle back to it. I I 1
of my concerns, um has always been about the
2 things about the power generation and the capacity of the
grid, um, and the timing of all that right so understanding
how how many buildings we think this is going to impact, uh
versus how we're going to deliver. Um, the the kind of
electricity that's going to be needed, um to supply power
to these but it's not just the buildings that are going to
be built. It is the data centers like you said any new
manufacturing the electrification of cars, uh, because I
know I mean we saw what happened during the winter, right?
if you had a a Tesla or any sort of like electric vehicle
you were camped out at whatever.
you were camped out at whatever, um, you know charging
stations there were if you didn't if you didn't have the
luxury of having a charging station at home, um in a
garage, but can you talk about like, you know,
How how does ComEd approach that um from?
how how does ComEd approach that um from a planning
perspective as you look forward because you know you you
showed us some numbers earlier about um.
showed us some numbers earlier about um about what the
What?
What the grid capacity is today what you're delivering
today? Uh and
today, uh and part of that is um takes into account the
fact that many many homes today are being heated with gas.
So when that number starts to flip what does
So when that number starts to flip, what does that look
like for your infrastructure for your grid Capac?
like for your infrastructure for your grid capacity? You
know, I I used to work in uh, Disaster Response.
know, I I used to work in uh, Disaster Response for United
Airlines and Houston was a big location for us the
Airlines and Houston was a big location for us. The power
went out in Houston all the time. Um,
went out in Houston all the time, um, uh in the summertime,
and then I know that you're not the same power,
the end of the day, but I've seen too much not to worry
about that. So, can you
about that. So can you just comment on on all of that? Yes,
um,
I'll personally say that I'm thinking about it every day.
and I'm thinking about
the impacts of CIA and generation Capac
the impacts of CIA and generation capacity and the load on
the system
When when?
We think about the future and part of this is wrapp.
we think about the future and part of this is wrapped up in
our grid plan of of how we're planning the grid and when do
we invest?
we invest and how much do we invest because there's 2 sides
of this.
of this coin right? We can see a decarbonization.
of this coin, right? We can see a decarbonization future an
additional load on the system requiring additional resour.
resources, but at the same time our customers concerned
that we're going to build those resources before they're
actually utilized.
actually utilized and invest too soon. So trying to get it
exactly right.
is the challenge um, and we won't get it exactly right, so
it's trying to to
um make
Um, make sure that we are able to match.
um, make sure that we are able to match that demand and
Supply as we move through time in order to keep prices
affordable and some of those things we're in control of
like investing in the grid, which I can think I can talk to
mostly about about we are constantly doing load forecasts
and evalu.
and evaluating. What is the usage of our customers look
like to give you an example of how much?
like to give you an example of how much load is changed for
a residential customers?
a residential customers in in 2007. Um,
a residential customers in in 2007. Um is our highest year
of deliveries on the system.
of deliveries on the system in the comment service
territory 200.
territory 2007.
16 years ago
our
Our average residential customer used 750 kilowatt hours.
year.
Our average residential customer today.
Our average residential customer today uses 600 kilowatt
hours a year.
and 1 of the
And 1 of the things that helps me think about this through
time.
time is
technology has just changed so much in 16 years.
technology has just changed so much in 16 years that an air
conditioner uses much less.
conditioner uses much less power today than it used to
lights. Think about your home and LED lights that are
installed.
installed use 10 watts versus 12.
installed use 10 watts versus 120 watts back in the day,
and it's
it's all of these things plus customers adopting.
it's all of these things plus customers adopting solar in
2016 before Fiji was passed. We had 7 megawatts of
distributed Jenner.
distributed generation on our system today we have
megawatts of distributed generation on our system.
megawatts of distributed generation on our system customers
are producing their own power. So it's all of these so we
have to look not just of how much customers are consuming
out the future, but how much
out the future. But how much are they going to produce out
the soup future and how does this all line up and 1 of the
things we're trying to do is encourage.
things we're trying to do is encourage people to produce
power. We have 42 gigawatts of rooftop capacity.
power. We have 42 gigawatts of rooftop capacity in our
service territory that can host V.
service territory that can host viable solar. Um,
with a viable solar
With a viable solar Radiance meaning it's cost-effective to
produce power.
produce power on those roofs. We need as many of those
roofs to have.
roofs to have solar on them as possible to provide Jenner.
generation for customers to use.
And then as they do use more power in the winter.
and then as they do use more power in the winter if they
choose to put a heat.
Choose to put a heat pump in versus gas then we'll see
more.
load in the winter and eventually those lines are crossed
we
We did a study last year that is with e
We did a study last year that is with its E3.
and they
And they evaluated in order to get to Net Zero.
And they evaluated in order to get to Net Zero by 2050,
which I actually don't think is going to happen. But if we
did we would cross the summer and winter line where the
winter.
winter capacity would equal the summer capacity in around
20.
2032.
that basically requires 140,000 customers every year to
replace their furnaces with heat pumps. I don't think
that's going to happen because that basically means 100% of
customers.
customers are replacing with heat pumps as they go.
I I think the statement was made by chair Haden earlier.
that this is going to be a decades long transition.
And I think that's the case.
and I think that's the case so
our challenge as
Our challenge as a utility though is we have to make
investments?
investments. We make 40 year Investments. Our investments
are lasting.
are lasting 40 years. So just as the city is planting for.
40 to 50 years from now. We are planting 40 to 50 years
from now and trying to make decisions just as you are for
your constituents. How do you what?
your constituents. How do you what decisions are you going
to make and how your citizens and residents are going to
pay for those decisions you're making today.
pay for those decisions you're making today versus the
benefits that they're going to receive over the same time
and it's the exact same challenges we have
the utility and
frankly, my biggest fear is not the capacity of the grid.
but I am concerned about the capacity of the
But I am concerned about the capacity of the generation
because we need more Renewables on the system.
because we need more Renewables on the system quickly in
order to enable this transition.
order to enable this transition and that is being lagged.
Uh largely.
uh largely due to some constraints at the region.
transmission organizations and transmission.
transmission organizations and transmission, um constraints
and things like that. That's to me.
and things like that. That's to me the biggest challenge in
all of this.
So I don't know that that was a very prec.
So, I don't know that that was a very precise answer to
your question, but it wasn't a very precise question.
question, but it wasn't a very precise question. So let's
be fair. Um, no, I I apprec.
be fair. Um, no, I I appreciate the Insight because I think
this is the, you know, trying to match, um trying to to
match where the adaptation and evolution is going.
match where the adaptation and evolution is going I think
is is going to be your biggest challenge is and then also,
you know with with the other factors that are frankly not
within your control.
within your control you don't make Transformers, right? And
I look I I think all of us have had um developments in our
words that have been held up because we can't get a
Transformer. Um, and that that means a lot of costs.
lost time um, if if developments
lost time. Um, if if developments can't be open, I mean we
ran into this at the room over the theater in my own Ward,
you know, um that and to no fault of Keds you they weren't
able to get a you weren't able to get a transformer in the
time that we had expect.
time that we had expected. So I think part of this too is
people just adjusting to what you've got to build in more
time.
And your building schedules for these things. Um, but
and your building schedules for these things, um, but but
that costs time for that particular business because they
weren't able to get a certificate of occupancy soon.
weren't able to get a certificate of occupancy sooner. Um,
you know, it has a domino effect.
you know, it has a domino effect it triggers all of these
things where they were expected if the if the city's not
going to provide the funding that it was supposed to until
the certificate of occupancy has been released.
the certificate of occupancy has been released then they're
on the hook for whatever the costs are. Um, so I don't have
to explain that to you. I know you get that.
to explain that to you. I know you get that so I don't want
to belabor the point. Um,
so I think there's a
I think again my fear is that we we're we're not going to
be able to.
be able to sort of keep up with uh,
be able to sort of keep up with uh where things are going.
And as you said and I appreciate you.
And as you said and I appreciate you you're your kandare
about your honesty about your biggest fears here.
with the the generation of uh of energy.
with the the generation of uh of energy as we haven't even
gotten into.
gotten into, you know nuclear plants. And what's the what's
the life of the ones that are are powering ComEd today?
the life of the ones that are are powering ComEd today, uh
versus what more is coming online because that that's a
whole that's for another time. Um,
but uh, you know where and I guess I'll move to your your
neighbor.
neighbor over here, um about the grid where
neighbor over here. Um about the grid, where where are you
most concerned with like what where are the where are the
weak points in the grid because in as much as we're comment
is producing more than we're actually using that doesn't
mean that things don't break down right for whatever
reason.
reasons if it's a lightning strike if it's a lot of demand,
um, and we've heard a few people talk about outages. So
let's talk about
um, and you know, where where the where the most sort of um
vulnerability
vulnerabilities are today in the in the grid here in the
Chicago.
Chicago area. Um, because you know, I I'd like to just sort
of look at you know, where in the city those are. Um, it's
sort of juxtaposed to where uh,
Where we anticipate some of this new building?
Where we anticipate some of this new building we take
place. Okay. Yeah. So, um
and also like to address an earlier question regarding
And also like to address an earlier question regarding the
Bloomberg article, so I am familiar with that. Uh, it's
based on, you know talk.
based on, you know talked about power quality and outages
in our service territory. It's based on uh, 20 to 30,000
from my understanding talking to the dat.
from my understanding talking to the data provider, um, 20
to 30 th
to 30,000 low voltage sensors across our service Terr.
So less than 1% we actually request
So less than 1% We actually requested data to validate it.
Uh, we to this point we haven't received it. Uh, what I do
know is um, we do provide reliability.
know is um, we do provide reliability reports where
required to provide a reliability to the report to the ICC
every year.
every year, uh, that report is made public.
uh every 3 years the ICC doesn't assessment of our
Uh every 3 years. The ICC doesn't assessment of our
performance provides recommendations.
performance provides recommendations that information is
also made public.
uh, we also work with the city of Chicago, uh,
Uh, we also work with the city of Chicago, uh, we provide uh
annual reliability reports. We provide Ward reports. Um,
I'm happy to say, you know for the city of Chicago we
talked about safety and just to put things in perspective
of where the cities reliability is, uh, the city of Chicago
safety safe acronym so it's
safety safe acronym. So it's average Interruption frequency
outage. So it's based on the number of customers in the
city of Chicago. So we we serve 1.3 million customers in
the city of Chicago and the average Interruption frequency
rate. Uh, last year was 0.33 the year before it was 0.31.
this is uh
This is uh, 4 times better than the national average.
This is uh, 4 times better than the national average of
1.25 just to put things in.
1.25 just to put things in perspective for those utilities
that serve over a million.
that serve over a million customers. Uh, this is
benchmarking data. That's
benchmarking data that's made available through the United,
uh States Department of energy.
uh States Department of energy, um in in addition,
duration is, uh also component,
duration is, uh, also component. Um, there's another metric
it's called Uh, Soddy,
it's called Uh Sadi system average Interruption duration
index so it factors in both the number of outages and the
duration
uh last year it was uh, 23 minutes the year before it was 29
minutes and then when comparing it to the national average
for those utilities over a million customers were 10 times
better the national
better. The national average is 293 minutes, you know
storms have a huge impact on those numbers. Um, I know
had also heard about the the winter storm.
had also heard about the the winter storm, uh in the city
of Chicago there was 29,000 customers impacted during that
January 12th winter.
January 12th winter storm. We were able to restore 99.3% of
those customers in the city.
those customers in the city, um within 12 hours and we got
all customers.
all customers restarted virtually and within 24 hours.
the um
terms of uh, you you asked about um areas of
Terms of uh, you you asked about um areas of concern. Uh,
we have Regional rely.
we have Regional reliability Engineers throughout the city
of Chicago. Uh, I have a team of uh overhead inspectors.
There's 4 of them. They're flying drones. You might see
them out there they're looking for
them out there. They're looking for equipment that is
damaged. We are looking because you know Storms Come
Through the service territory.
Through the service territory and it does cause damage so
we're we're proactive.
we're we're proactively uh looking so our our biggest, um,
reliability numbers are really good.
reliability numbers are really good in order for us to
maintain it. We really have to start with our preventive
maintenance programs. You know, we're out there.
maintenance programs. You know, we're out there inspecting
our circuits. We're out at every substation, uh somewhere
between 5 and 10 weeks throughout the city. Uh, we have
Several preventive maintenance programs and what we're
looking for?
looking for are those areas where there's damage equipment?
We also use data, uh 1 of the areas that we do focus on.
customers with repeat outages, so
customers with repeat outages. So, uh, it's not, you know
some of the numbers I gave you are more of a system number
but we also need to focus on the customer and I like to
call.
call those customer Centric metrics and you know, that's
common.
common uh terminology in the industry. It's uh customers
with repeat outages and just the
with repeat outages and just to provide some perspective.
Um, you know last year, um,
94% of Chicago customers, uh either exper
94% of Chicago customers, uh, either experienced zero or 1
interruption.
So, um, you know 1 million of those experienced.
So, um, you know 1 million of those experienced zero
outages. So when we're looking it's kind of like looking.
outages. So when we're looking it's kind of like looking,
you know needle and I hate that because there's so many
customers to have zero outages we have uh, and that's the
second year in a row that we've had 1 million.
with zero outages. Um, but we do look at customers with uh,
4 more outages just put things in perspective a decade ago.
8% of the customers in the city of Chicago or 89,000 had 4
more outages.
last year
Last year 0.4% or 58?
last year 0.4% or 5,800 customers had 4 or more outages and
so those are
And so those are the customers where we're focusing on.
We're also focusing on our worst performing circuit. We
meet constantly with the city AIS. Uh, we provide them.
meet constantly with the city AIS. Uh, we provide them a
listing about our worst performing circuits that we've uh
report to the Illinois Commerce Commission we
report to the Illinois Commerce Commission. We also in
addition, uh, look at 5% worse.
addition, uh, look at 5% worse performing circuits. So for
the city we expanded a little
the city, we expanded a little and we provide that
information so that we can focus on those areas. I wouldn't
call them weak spots, but the areas where we have
reliability issues so that we could address it with
short-term Solutions.
short-term Solutions or long-term Solutions, and then we
monitor those circuits. We provide updates in terms of
performance in terms of how we're doing in the city.
Right. Um, and I appreciate the
Right, um, and I appreciate the the very thorough response.
Um, and and I will say that, you know, I've had nothing but
good exper.
good experiences with calmed, you know, when we've had
outages when we've randomly had wires popping, you know, uh
in an alley or something, uh, the the the service we get I
think is um is is very good. Um,
1 of the things that uh 1 of my colleagues asked earlier
uh, but I'm gonna ask Alder mandal's question. Um, and this
was there there was mention made of the number of people
who um,
who um have um, extraordinarily High bills. Um,
who um have um, extraordinarily High bills, um for um for
people's gas right and can't pay their bills. Um, so we
wanted to on the flip side to that.
wanted to on the flip side to that what
give us some of your data around the number of people who
are behind on their electric bills. I guess that's the way
to ask the question. Yeah, I actually don't have that with.
me, but we'll bring it back for the summer preparedness and
we'll bring it back to the chair and get you that but I
wanted to address.
wanted to address 1 of the things she did raise which was
at at the same time. She asked that question because I
don't have the receivable.
don't have the receivables numbers, um with me but 1 of the
questions. She also asked was well, what's the impact going
to be on?
to be on the customer? Right? And what was the impact?
to be on the customer? Right? And what was the impact uh
going to be for calmed because they're going to have more
customers, but we're really not going to have more.
customers. They're already our customers. Anyway, it's just
how much power are they going to use and 1 of the things?
that
a space heating customer which we have today we have about
200,000 customers out of our 4.
million customers 200,000 out of the 3.7 residential
customers are full electric space heating customers.
electric space heating customers charge per kilowatt hours
half of that
than
the customer that's not space heating with electricity. So
there's already built into the rate design a a cheaper rate
because there's an acknowledgement that the space heating
customer uses more power.
customer uses more power and they're going to contribute
more to the overall Revenue requirement.
more to the overall Revenue requirement that the utility is
going to make.
1 of the other thoughts is well as ComEd going to make more
money.
well
It doesn't matter how much?
It doesn't matter how much load we distribute or how many
kilowatt hours we distribute.
kilowatt hours we distribute every year. We're fully
decoupled from volume. So if we deliver more Kil
decoupled from volume. So if we deliver more kilowatt hours
the rate per kilowatt hour goes down if we deliver
hours, the rate per kilowatt hour goes down if we deliver
less the rate per kilowatt hour goes up, but the
of Revenue we make is
not tied to the amount of usage that customers have
our earnings and our revenue is really tied to how much do
we have to invest into the system?
we have to invest into the system to serve our customers?
That's the Big Driver. It's not like any other business in
the world. Um, but this is the utility business that we're
in.
in and that actually creates
balanced incentives for us. It was something that we faced
back in 20 1627.
back in 20 1627 when there was a big move towards expanding
energy.
Energy Efficiency programs. So we had to create a
mechanism.
to level eyes or create the incentives for us to do these
things where our business wasn't going to be harmed by
delivering.
delivering more power. So that was an important point that
I wanted.
I wanted to make given that question so
I wanted to make given that question. So there are already
some economic incentives that counteract the cost of
increased kilowatt hours with the lower rate and
other
aspect of that and I was just looking at my phone earlier
today.
price of power of electricity in Northern, Illinois
Is much much.
Is much much lower than the rest of the country.
And and when I say that, I mean the electricity costs.
And and when I say that, I mean the electricity costs the
supply cost because of that chart I showed about.
supply cost because of that chart I showed about how much
energy is produced here versus consumed yesterday.
energy is produced here versus consumed yesterday in in the
pjm.
pjm market.
the cost of power on the East Coast was
The cost of power on the East Coast was $50 a megawatt
hour. The price of power here was 15 dollars per megawatt
hour.
it was
about 4 times higher, uh out east than what it was here.
And these are this is the Dynamics because of the mix in
the makeup that we have.
the makeup that we have in the generation. So while usage
may go up and demand and Supply is what controls prices
there's Regional Dynam.
there's Regional Dynamics too. It's why I'm so focused on
more Renewables into that.
more Renewables into that stack more generation into that
stack on.
stack on the left keeps prices low keeps it affordable
because an energy transition has to be done equitably.
because an energy transition has to be done equitably and
affordably we can't have a as the alderman was talking
earlier.
We can't lift those who are going to least afford a
transition to be the last ones to.
transition to be the last ones to transition. So we've
really got to focus on the equity of how a full-blown.
transition occurs, but that's not what we're talking about
today.
today today. We're talking about new customers and how
that is is is going to impact the markets, but I did want
to address those because we did hear some of the
Those questions pop up and and to I'll just say to older
woman.
alderwoman dolls question. We do have a partial answer. Um,
so
uh looks like in february of this year. Um, what was it 18?
of people's gas customers were more.
of people's gas customers were more than 30 days behind on
their bills and 14% of calmed customers were so that was a
snap.
snapshot for februari. Um, uh,
yeah, uh, so that's across comments.
Yeah, uh, so that's a cross comments Network. That's not
just Chicago. But as as Scott.
just Chicago, but as as Scott mentioned so we may 22.
just Chicago but as as Scott mentioned, so we May 22nd if
you want to mark it in your calendar already, uh,
have our summer preparedness hearing with ComEd but I think
you know if we can ask through the chair. We'll see if we
can get updated numbers before May 22nd.
can get updated numbers before May 22nd on I think that
question of aldermen dolls was you know, how kind of what
percentage of ComEd customers or behind um on their bills
and then um,
uh
Scott kind of the other part of that was uh, I think a
question about would ComEd increased their customers since
since dollars.
since dollars and so, um, that was the second part of her
question.
question question put that there so we'll see if through
through the chair. Uh, since you I know you didn't prepare
those numbers if you want to get those to us through the
chair. Yep, okay.
um, just 1 final comment, and then I'll be
Um, just 1 final comment and then I'll be done here. Um, I
appreciate just the the
the comment that you just made about the we're we're
talking today about new customers, but I think what what's
underlying all of the question?
underlying all of the questioning throughout is the this is
sort of the the tip of the iceberg. Um, and we are there's
a lot of concern about the the 99.
a lot of concern about the the 99% of existing um customers
who would at some point and we all acknowledge this at some
point.
this at some point. We'll need to um be electrified or to
move off of because we naturally gas is a is a finite um
resource so I I think that uh, it's not unwarranted to be
to have this conversation.
to have this conversation about what this would mean
because we we have to look at this holistically, too what
we do this is starting and it's it's a starting place and I
think you you won't get disagreement. Um at all among
colleagues about uh, the fact or at least there are most of
us, but the fact that decarbonization is something that we
have to plan for. Um, but I think we're we're going to
continue to be very concerned about what the impact is
going.
For everybody else. Thank you.
Thank you so much.
Um, I'll
I'll have been Conway wonderful. Absolutely. Um, uh,
the gentleman on the left remind me your name again sir,
Jim Ortega.
Jim Ortega Jim. Um, so uh, just some clarifying questions.
on on. Um, so when you said,
on on. Um, so when you said 33 and 31, what are those
numbers?
numbers refer to? Uh, it's the average Interruption
frequency of an interruption. So if there's let's say the
safety was 1
uh, and there's 1.3 million customers on average.
Uh, and there's 1.3 million customers on average, uh every
customer in the city of Chicago.
customer in the city of Chicago experience 1 hour outage
now, there's some customers who experienced a none some who
experience more but it's an average.
experience more but it's an average a based on the number
of customers in the city of Chicago.
So you're saying with those?
So you're saying with those numbers just to finish that so.
for last year it?
for last year, it was 0.31. So the average was 0.31
customers.
customers experience an outage. Could you yeah, so last
year it was 0.33. So another way to put it is for every uh,
3 customers 1 customer.
3 customers 1 customer experience an outage.
So 33. So right around there, right 30 so wait.
So 33. So right around there, right 30, so wait, so it's
like 31% of customers experiencing.
31% of customers experience an outage outage. No, no, no,
no no, no, no.
no, no, no, no, no, not 31% of customers. Well, he said 1
would mean everyone did 31 with safety. Yeah. So for every
3 customers 1 customer would have experienced an outage. So
25% of customers experience an outage then and then could
you follow up with what was the number on the uh, the other
figure was the amount of time? Yeah, it's 80 so
figure was the amount of time? Yeah, it's 80. So it takes
in terms of the uh Dior
in terms of the uh duration minutes in terms of how long
customers pretty entire system.
customers pretty entire system, uh for the 1.3 million
customers. What is that?
customers. What is that duration index? Uh, it's repres.
represents. Um, uh,
it's factoring in both the duration that the customers are
without power.
without power and the frequency of interruptions and
without power and the frequency of interruptions. And that
number was uh for last year. It was uh, 23 minutes.
and then the
And then the year before it was 29 minutes 499. Yeah, and
then across the industry for UT.
then across the industry for utilities with over a million
customers.
Um it was
Um, it was 293 minutes, so
Um, it was 293 minutes. So, uh the city of Chicago
customers experience.
customers experience 10 times better. Uh,
customers experience 10 times better, uh this reliability
metric
um, the United States Department of energy has a really neat
video that explains some of these metrics I could share
that with you. Okay? Yeah, but is it fair or not fair to
say 25?
say 25 customers experience an outage of approximately 23
minutes.
That sounds about right.
That sounds about right uh on average for the city of
Chicago last year.
Chicago last year when a customer did experience an out.
they were without power for on average right around.
they were without power for on average right around 70
minutes.
um 7
Um 700 yes 70. That's for the that's for the customers that
experience experience. Ah, okay, okay.
experience experience. Ah, okay. Okay when you average the
average is all the way down. Alright, so for for all
million
Millions, which is the major got it. Um,
um blue bounce so and I saw I I heard um, Jim you were
referred to uh, uh, I was the 1 who would bring up the
Bloomberg.
Bloomberg article. So I remember you said in your response
to that Bloomberg art.
to that Bloomberg article. I didn't know if you were
talking about the
exalon CEO warns cleaning the grid needs higher power Bills
or the 1 Chicago area has been pairs.
or the 1 Chicago area has been persistent in hotspot for
power quality issues the second
power quality issues. The second 1 I was referring to okay.
Um you
um, you know speaking to the provider we had asked um like
you
like, you know terms of the data where it's um, it's my
understanding 20 to thousand somewhere between 20 and 30
thousand homes across our service.
thousand homes across our service territory. So the 4 the
over 4.2 million customers
these uh low voltage sensors in their homes and
these uh, low voltage sensors in their homes and the sub
subscription, uh,
subscription. Uh, we had asked for uh, sample the data we
have to to this point haven't received it. Uh, so to
validate it 1 way or the other and but you know, what we
could tell you is that we have to provide this, uh, illness
Commerce Commission.
Commerce Commission all our data all our Interruption data.
Commerce Commission all our data all our Interruption data
in terms of the reliability statistics. What's the average?
Interruption? And so all that information is made public at
the uh, Illinois Commerce Commission. And so, you know, we
we'd recommend if you're using reports to measure or to see
how I reliability is we recommend to use that public
information.
information the owner of Commerce Commission report know
that that so the so the sensors would have to be replaced
is that
Is that fair to say or pardon me do the sense some of the
sensors then need to be replaced. Those are we don't
Those sensors. Those are custom, uh customer sens.
Those sensors. Those are custom, uh customer sensors. Um,
we we don't have
access to the data to validate that the the results in that
Story 1 way or the other. Um, we have reached to the vendor
in there to try and access that information.
in there to try and access that information so we can't
corroborate it and it doesn't necessarily comport with our
own data of what we're seeing on the system, but that
yeah, I see it says whisker labs and who have we reached
out to you got it. Um, so I I mean since we've spent a lot
of time.
of time, um,
talking about people's gas and their great increas
Talking about people's gas and their great increases, you
know, the fact that the other headline was excellent CE.
warns cleaning the grid needs higher power bills.
What how do you think that this legis?
What how do you think that this legislation would would
affect our bills?
affect our bills for Chicagoans? Yeah, as I as I was
saying.
affect our bills for Chicagoans? Yeah, as I as I was saying
and if I missed and I'm sure I did if I missed that the
initial presentation.
initial presentation my apologies. Yeah. No I I
so as I was just saying 1 of the
So as I was just saying 1 of the things.
for our bill
our revenues
whether there's more volume or more deliveries on the
system.
system doesn't impact the revenue and in fact if a customer
customer is heating with all uh Electric
customer is heating with all uh, electricity and they have
space heat. They're the rates.
space heat. They're the rates are actually lower even
though their usage is higher so that the bill is relatively
unimpeded.
I I think
our CEO is going with that statement.
our CEO is going with that statement was largely talking
about.
um the Investments needed for
Um, the Investments needed for a full electrification or a
full decarb.
full decarbonization of the power sector not necessarily.
um the effects of what
um, the effects of what this ordinance will do and as I was
talking earlier 1 of the things that I'm very concerned
about is the makeup of the generation stack.
about is the makeup of the generation stack is that
generation stacks change and the consumption on the right
increases that's a pure supply and demand convers.
increases that's a pure supply and demand conversation.
as Supply
As supply and demand get closer together prices are going
to go up.
to go up if Supply gets constrained meaning we
to go up if Supply gets constrained. Meaning we have fewer
generation resources on the market prices.
generation resources on the market prices are going to go
up that becomes a generation equation.
up that becomes a generation equation and a supply
equation, which I think is probably the most impactful to
the customer.
the customer versus. Um,
distribution investment side of things
If if that makes sense, it's utility.
if if that makes sense, it's utility business is a very
complicated 1 especially when you're restructured and you
have many different play.
have many different players into this market in terms of
who's providing what and how these pieces.
who's providing what and how these pieces all line up. So I
apologize if I've gone too far.
apologize if I've gone too far into the rabbit hole. No no
I mean for for what it's worth.
My previous job as a solar energy developer. So understand
some of the jargon that you were using. So, but you
some of the jargon that you were using so but you don't
you don't think that
You don't think that the grid upgrade that would be
required for.
required for full decarbonization is required for this
legislation. No, not at all. Okay, is that know and that
that's really gets to the fact that you know the capacity
on the system today?
on the system today far exceeds.
Um this chart the capacity we already have available in the
system.
Is 7 gigawatts more and that's what we use in the summer.
So we know it's there because we use it in the summer.
is this affect At All by
net meter
Net metering happening in Illinois or or no, or is that a
different thing?
different thing net net metering reduces that line on the
top? Yeah. So if you look at that very top line. Um, that's
the all-time system Peak at 238 I think.
the all-time system Peak at 238. I think in 2011.
we had in 2011 we had like
I don't know a megawatt 2 megawatts of net me.
I don't know a megawatt 2 megawatts of net metering
customers on the system. Nothing. We got 700 me.
customers on the system. Nothing. We got 700 megawatts. So
it's 700 megawatts of net metering. The distributed
generation customers is reducing that line.
generation customers is reducing that line and that's why
the more distributed Jenner.
the more distributed generation net metering customers. We
have out there the better off we are we're going to have
more capacity available for customers in the summer by
having the net metering. It won't move the line too much in
the winter. Yeah, just because of Radiance in the winter,
but if you look at that
But if you look at that capacity we have when we're talking
about
buildings for heating in the winter
The capacity is already there on the system. It's sitting
there.
there now locally as we build any any any new customer in.
this goes to the conversation about the Transformer when
whenever any new customer appears.
We have to evaluate that new customer and we have to
design.
the system to meet the needs of that customer. That's an
obligation.
obligation to serve we do that. We've done it for a 100
years. We're going to continue to do it. The difference is
going to be the customer.
going to be the customers going to appear and say hey.
I want a heat with electricity and we're like, oh, okay.
We're going to change the demand requirement for that
customer.
customer and we're going to make sure that the grid is
capable of serving that customer's needs based on what
they're using at that FAQ.
they're using at that facility and we'll make the
adjustments at that time. But when we look at the system on
an overall basis.
an overall basis, yeah, there's not a ripple effect coming
down.
down the line that says hey you don't have enough capacity.
on the system to serve this customer. We're going to be
constrained. We're going to have power.
constrained. We're going to have power price increases
because we got too much too much power. We're serving and
things like that. It really becomes a localized.
things like that. It really becomes a localized issue of
how much capacity is at.
how much capacity is at that point of service to meet the
needs of that customer and then we will build that into the
system. So it'll continue to evolve.
system. So it'll continue to evolve as these new customers
appear.
We will adapt and build.
We will adapt and build and as was mentioned earlier today.
We already have customers on.
we already have customers on the system that do heat with
electricity. We have all electric buildings. I think
there's 1 1 of the people that works for me is is the
there's 1 1 of the people that works for me is 1 is the
1st.
and you know that 1's already electrified and I think there
was a lady here this morning talked about her building that
was built.
was built in the 1970s because we are running a program at
that point.
that point to say hey.
Heat your Billings with electricity.
heat your Billings with electricity because we were
building a bunch of nuclear plants in the 70s that we
wanted power to serve. So it it's a
customer by
customer Buy customer evaluation and build out of the grid
to meet their needs as we go through time. So I don't see
this ordinance. Really.
this ordinance really causing. Um any incremental cost. Um,
to to to to
To to to to I'm sorry. I cut you off you don't see you
don't see this ordinance changing. I kind of finished I
kind of dropped the sentence. But yeah.
Okay. Yeah, I I all the rest of my questions are probably
more more. Um, uh, uh would be better for the summer
preparedness brief, so
preparedness brief. So noting noting our timing. I'll go
ahead and yield. Thank you.
ahead and yield. Thank you very much.
Thank you all.
Thank you madam. Chair. Um
Thank you madam, chair, um my apologies for being a little
late and missing the presentation I was
late and missing the presentation. I was cross streeted.
We're going to give you a pop quiz. Oh s***. All right.
All right. Let me see your paper. Hold on.
Uh, good afternoon everyone.
a couple of questions, uh, if you don't have the
A couple of questions. Uh, if you don't have the answers
you could please provide them through the chair. Um,
Are you aware of how cold it was on January 15th of?
are you aware of how cold it was on January 15th of this
year?
I have the answers. It's minus minus the 10. Yeah. Yeah,
and with the wind chills a lot cold.
and with the wind chills a lot colder. Yeah, um
does Illinois have the generation capacity to match the
amount of natural gas?
amount of natural gas delivered by a gas companies between
in your opinion between 8 and 9 on that?
in your opinion between 8 and 9 on that day and it was
minus.
10 degrees with a wind chill of about minus 30 you guys
think you have that?
think you have that generation capacity to match Natural
Gas.
Yes, okay.
Did you have any outages?
Did you have any outages that day?
on the 15th in the 15th, um, we could follow up at
On the 15th in the 15th, um, we could follow up at not not
a lot on the not not a lot. Yeah. It's yeah, I was on storm
Duty. So I was in the I was on this virtual Storm Center
monitoring.
monitoring every that was yeah, you could look it up and
get back to me. I mean, yeah, that was the January.
get back to me. I mean, yeah, that was the January 12th
storm before the extreme cold. Yeah, that was driven by the
ice and snow. Yeah, I think we were running around.
Customers out off and on the half hour at a time bringing
people back. Yeah. Yeah, uh for the cold days. Yeah we
we'll follow up in terms of how many in the city of Chicago
lost.
lost power per day. And then while you're looking at that
if you could look at your record,
if you could look at your records to get back to me, um as
it as to what would it take to deliver that much energy
without gas and how much electricity costs would have been
for that day.
And and I could write these questions down for you if you
like so that way.
Um, do you guys?
Do you guys recall a meeting with City officials? Um
commissioner towbar and her team and members of the
Illinois clean jobs that you guys attended on December
13th.
of 2023
for me
I don't know I have to go back. I don't I don't.
I don't know. I have to go back. I don't I don't remember a
meeting, uh with the city and the clean jobs Coalition that
I attended.
Did okay. Yeah. I'm just I'm just curious as to what were
the groups?
the groups or stakeholders or the decarb thing? Oh, that's
what we're oh the decarb summit. Yes. Okay. Yes.
You do remember that?
You do remember that meeting? Yes. No, I do. Do you
remember what groups or
remember what groups are stakeholders participating in that
meeting?
Uh, representative disadvantaged communities particularly
black and brown communities.
um
Um, I'm trying to remember who was all in that meeting. Um
I can I ask a point of clarification.
I can I ask a point of clarification as you guys are trying
to remember. Um, you called this a meeting you called. This
a summit was this a
um, and I know we still have uh our
we have Chief Tovar here to
We have Chief Tovar here to answer questions to if someone
can provide clarity.
can provide Clarity, I guess maybe on the event. Yes Summit
meeting. Yeah.
But and I'm like I'm looking like was this.
But and I'm like I'm looking like was this like a private
meeting was this a public Summit was this it was a it?
meeting was this a public Summit was this it was a it was a
private meeting that we invited folks.
private meeting that we invited folks into it was a ComEd
meeting where we invited.
meeting where we invited in uh, stakeholders, uh across
meeting where we invited and uh stakeholders, uh across the
environmental Community, uh to come in.
environmental Community, uh to come in and have a
conversation about dcarbon.
conversation about decarbonization. Okay, so kmed organized
this. Yeah. We held it at our facilities at Chicago North
Okay.
Do you remember?
Do you remember what groups or stakeholders participating
in the meeting?
the representative disadvantaged communities particularly
black and brown communities
I don't remember. I think we had.
I don't remember. I think we had um EDF accelerate Group H.
Hub elpc. Um
the city
we could follow but we can follow up with I mean you can
give me that list. Um and where I'm where I'm going with
that is um,
Again, I mentioned earlier.
Again, I mentioned earlier the cities over 66% We want to
make sure.
make sure that folks that are being impacted ultimately by
leg.
make sure that folks that are being impacted ultimately by
legislation, um are at the table and part of the
discussion.
Um have there been any additional meetings? Um,
Um have there been any additional meetings? Um between uh
yourself the city and Ely since December?
because
Because you say that again.
Have there been any additional meetings?
um with yourself
Um with yourself the city and Ely since December that
you've called.
you've called who's Ely?
The um, I'm sorry.
The um, I'm sorry the environmental you mean icjc icg.
Yeah, I'm sorry.
Too many acronyms here today.
Um, we we did meet I think I I we met with chair Haden and
her team with us we met but not I don't know.
her team with us we met but not I don't know I met with
Jared on another thing.
Jared on another thing, um around solar. I can't remember
if we talked about this.
if we talked about this 1 or not. We might have Jared and
Angela.
Angela we could we could follow up. Yeah, you could and
then while you're putting that list together if you could
um, just put you know, uh,
Who repres?
Who represented some of the communities that were focused?
on?
For clarification. Are you asking if they had?
For clarification. Are you asking if they had meetings
about this ordinance, correct?
about this ordinance? Correct? So in decarb, yes, this
these are they are just I just want to be clear because I
think they're talking about meetings in general so through
the chair if you could get us meetings that you had
the chair. If you could get us meetings that you had where
the city was involved or anybody, uh older person.
the city was involved or anybody, uh older person meetings
about this ordinance. Yeah. I mean, I I I'm trying to get
to the point that I want to make sure that our communities
are part of at the table part of the discussion so that we
as ordinances evolving and I just want to make sure that in
there through the chair requests they're giving you
there through the chair requests. They're giving you why
something relevant and not oh we met with jar.
something relevant and not oh we met with Jared about
something that wasn't the Dakar ordinance.
something that wasn't the Dakar ordinance because if
they're having a a meeting with a city Department not about
the decarb ordinance, then your question isn't relevant on
where their Community groups represented, but I just want
to make sure you guys give him the responses that he's
looking for to the point. He's trying to make thank you,
okay.
Appreciate that chair.
Um
um, and then my final question
so Exxon is the parent of ComEd. Is that accurate, correct?
Is that correct? Yeah, okay. Um.
Maybe you know, maybe you don't know but uh, do you know
that?
that in Baltimore bgne subsidiary?
that in Baltimore bgne subsidiary of your parent company
Exelon they're asking for 1.8 billion.
in gas infrastructure upgrades
um
Those those excellent support.
utilization of natural gas
for delivery of energy
I don't know the number that they're that.
I don't know the number that they're that they asked for
actually think they already had a result.
actually think they already had a result on their grid on
their gas case last year.
so
So yes comment or BGE and Pico both own gas companies.
and
And they support utilizing gas to energy, right? Yeah it
sounds about right, okay.
Thank you madam chair.
Thank you.
Um want to open it up. I don't know.
Um want to open it up. I don't know Alderman Quinn or not
have been worth any questions.
No.
Okay.
Um, I want to thank you both.
Um, I want to thank you both, um for your testimony.
Um, I want to thank you both, um for your testimony and uh
before proceeding through the next uh, what
Let's see.
It'll be a shorter break here guys.
It'll be a shorter break here guys, but we're going to go
ahead and switch to our next segment. Um, so um, we'll have
our guest.
our guests from people's gas. Um, thank you for your
patience.
patience, but if you can make your way to the box, and
thank you.
you to our uh guests from ComEd.
well
in the middle
I can do a little dance.
I can do a little dance Juice It Up.
All right.
Our Guest
Our guests are in the in their place.
I hope everyone got to stretch your legs for a moment.
I ate my ate my I ate my own a Gary. I got my snack.
But thank you for looking out.
All right.
All right, if everyone can uh
Start to settle.
start to settle back into their seats or at least uh
talking.
So we're going to hear our guest our testimony from our
guests of people.
of people's gas. Um, I'm gonna turn it over to saler.
of people's gas. Um, I'm gonna turn it over to salera and
Mara georgees from people's gas and I know
Mara georgees from people's gas. And I know we've got uh,
you know, why don't you take a moment to introduce
everyone?
in the Box, um, and you can begin your presentation. Thank
you.
you for your patience. No problem. Thank you chair and
members.
members of the committee. My name is Salvador Ron. I'm the
Vice President of Operations.
vice president of operations for people's guests. Um, and
I'm here with my colleague.
I'm here with my colleague Pat Schillinger our vice
president of State Legislative and local affairs.
president of State Legislative and local Affairs. MRI.
George is 1 of our Consultants. So I appreciate
opportunity to speak to you today about the proposed clean
and affordable building ordinance, um a couple things I
wanted to get out in front given some of the dialogue that
that has been happening through the day. Um, I know there
was some questions about these working past working
sessions. I think that uh, they were labeled people's gas
was not a part of those working sessions. Um, we had
requested to be a contributing member.
requested to be a contributing member at the table for
those but was declined, uh,
those but was declined. Uh, we were invited to be a
listener, but but but not an inputter, um,
And then there was some questions.
And then there was some questions regarding what people's
gas. Locally is doing around Dakar.
gas. Locally is doing around decarbonization, and I did
want to share some of those things ahead. Um, and what
we're doing around Chicago to meet some of those climate.
we're doing around Chicago to meet some of those climate
goals, so we will soon be introducing renew.
so we will soon be introducing renewable natural gas into
our system renew.
our system renewable. GA natural gas will be produced at a
communi.
communi community-owned facility on the city south side and
that
and that energy it produces will not just be carbon neutral
it.
will be carbon negative.
the production of renewable
The production of renewable natural gas are customers use
will prevent the carbon emissions from hitting the Skies
over Chicago and the way that's going to happen is they're
going to be using food.
going to be using food waste and instead of that going to a
landfill or it decomposes and provides those emissions. It
will instead.
will instead get routed to this facility and use to
produce.
energy that we we will be putting back into our gas pipes.
So that's 1 of the things we're currently working on and
looking to go live.
looking to go live very soon.
Uh, the other big item we've talked about is hydrogen and
that's a new technology. That's really out Across the
Nation a lot of work a lot of um,
research being done on that we
Research being done on that. We are 2 in the process of
testing some carbon-free hydrogen.
testing some carbon-free hydrogen as a clean fuel to be
delivered in our system. Hydrogen is slow showing
tremendous promise as
promise as a decarbonized energy source, some parts of the
country are already using it.
Thirdly, and I know folks.
Thirdly, and I know folks are very familiar with this the
continued replacement of our aging system.
continued replacement of our aging system in the city of
Chicago. Uh, some of which again is is going back to the
1800s. So as we upgrade that system, we're reducing leaks
we're reducing
We're reducing emissions and we're producing. I'm sorry.
We're constructing.
We're constructing a new modernized system that will be
able to deliver these clean fuels of the future. And then
lastly our Energy Efficiency team is working.
businesses and residential customers to access.
businesses and residential customers to access and install
new Ultra energy efficient appliances this
new Ultra energy efficient appliances. This includes highly
efficient furnaces water heater.
efficient furnaces water heater heaters carbon capture
technology and gas heat pumps some of those are already
available on the commercial side that are becoming more
readily available on the residential side and many of those
are more efficient and less EXP
are more efficient and less expensive than electric heat
pumps today.
So with that I did want to share that people's gas and
parent company wec Energy Group are committed.
parent company wec Energy Group are committed to a clean
energy future.
We operate both Electric.
We operate both electric and Natural Gas Utilities in 3
other states. So we have deep knowledge of what it takes to
achieve clean energy goals while providing customer safe
and reliable energy. We have committed to reduce carbon
emissions in our electric generation.
emissions in our electric generation portfolio 60% by the
end of 20.
end of 2025 compared to 2005 levels.
end of 2025 compared to 2005 levels 80% by the end of 2030
and have a net zero electric generation Fleet by 20
We're backing these industry-leading goals.
we're backing these industry-leading goals with 7 billion
worth of renewable investments in Wind solar and battery
storage over the next 5 years.
We also plan to have net.
We also plan to have Net Zero methane emissions from our
Natural Gas Distribution operations.
Natural Gas Distribution operations by 2030. That is why
modernization.
modernization of Chicago's Energy Delivery system is so
important.
important as you know, we are committed to modernizing 1 of
the oldest.
the oldest natural gas delivery system in the country that
ensures safety and set Chicago up to have world.
infrastructure. It also positions us to use clean and
renewable resources at a fraction of the cost of moving to
all electric.
We do not believe that manned.
We do not believe that mandating by regulation and all
electric future for Chicago.
electric future for Chicago is safe cost-effective or
environmentally.
environmentally sustainable for the customers. We serve
like many others.
like many others we believe this issue is too important and
too complex.
too complex to approach what we fundamentally change the
way Chicago and Heat their homes and cook their meals. It
should not be done.
should not be done hastily or we may get it wrong. We must
bring all stakeholders together and examine all the facts.
to determine the correct approach to our shared goals.
I would like to turn to our specific concerns.
I would like to turn to our specific concerns with the
proposed clean and affordable building ordinance.
proposed clean and affordable building ordinance first.
It's not necessary and eliminates customer choice.
It's not necessary and eliminates customer Choice Chicago
already requires new construction.
already requires new construction to be equipped with both
electric and natural gas.
electric and natural gas services.
the city council passed a resolution
The city council passed a resolution in september of 2022
there requires any new building.
there requires any new building to provide the customer
with the option of which.
with the option of which energy energy source to use to
provide Heat.
mandating only 1 energy source eliminates consumer choice
and the opportunity to access lower costs and cleaner
sources of energy in the future.
the 1 size fits all mandate
The 1 size fits all mandate is not prudent, especially when
it comes to keeping Chicago.
it comes to keeping Chicagoans warm in winter.
Next We Believe Kabul is also inequitable.
We talked about the conversion of some of these.
We talked about the conversion of some of these buildings.
and I know there was a discussion on
And I know there was a discussion on 900 versus a thousand
retrofit versus not.
all that results in existing gas customers coming off and
that population becoming smaller and what that means is for
the many of our existing customers that type of policy
shift will ensure that they will now need to pay for the
larger.
larger future share of Chicago's existing heating system.
larger future share of Chicago's existing heating system
that they rely on today not providing any opport.
that they rely on today not providing any opportunity to
grow the natural gas delivery system will mean that the
same or declining number of customers will have to
higher costs to maintain the system those costs.
higher costs to maintain the system those costs would
increase for each customer negatively impacting lower and
moderate income customers the most it's not affordable for
most Chicagoans we've
most Chicagoans. We've heard publicly from supporters of
the ordinance that this is only the start.
the ordinance that this is only the start they say their
ultimate goal is to have all Chicago's residences and
buildings use using only Electric.
buildings use using only electric for heating and
cooking the cost for this type of transaction trans
an all-electric future in Chicago.
just looked at a few.
administration's Department of energy Electric.
administration's Department of Energy electric power is 3
times more expensive than natural gas the question.
times more expensive than natural gas. The question for Pol
policy makers is who is going to pay for the cost of this
transition.
finally
Finally reliability needs to be addressed particularly in
our often harsh Winters. America's power grid is struggling
to keep up today with increased energy demand from
power users and electric vehicles.
power users and electric vehicles the North American
Electric reliability Corporation.
Electric reliability Corporation nurse 2023 long-term
reliability.
reliability assessment recently found that most areas face
power generation resource challenges.
power generation resource challenges with many regions
projected to have reserved.
projected to have reserved shortages or emergence emerging
energy.
energy risk much more study needs to be done to
we never face a situation where the grid fails during a
snowstorm or even more seriously.
snowstorm or even more seriously a polar vortex.
as we
As we all work to a cleaner energy future. We must not risk
dismantling the energy.
dismantling the energy systems that have served this great
City for decades.
City for decades and are in position to deliver energy in a
reliable.
reliable environmentally sustainable and affordable way for
future.
future Generations any decision to mandate electr.
future Generations any decision to mandate electrification
in Chicago requires much more study.
in Chicago requires much more study and careful
consideration that way together. We can find the right
Solution on costs rely.
Solution on costs reliability and protecting the
environment. Thank you.
Thank you for your comments opening the floor to questions
from.
Alders
I see Conway and then more and then Lopez and then Quinn.
Great. Um.
sort of building on on comed's testimony. So how how do you
think
that this ordinance
would increase
rates on your customers
I mean you you talked you were going down this.
I mean you you talked you were going down this road, so I
didn't know if you had any numeric numbers assuming I
I have to say assuming the ICC allows you to keep.
I have to say assuming the ICC allows you to keep the same
Roi.
Correct. So so if we just look at it from a pure numbers,
um, I'll call it.
um, I'll call it units.
let's assume a
Let's assume a thousand. I think the number was thrown out
800 to 900 building.
800 to 900 building permits a year that are affected. Let's
round that to an easy thousand. That's a thousand
buildings. Those buildings could have multiple customers on
them.
them double digit customers so manned.
them double digit customers. So mandating that building to
now only be Electric
now only be electric that double digit set of customers is
no longer on the gas Network. They are no longer contrib.
contributing.
to that population
To that population. So those customers that remain who may
not be able to move into retrofit or util.
not be able to move into retrofit or utilize the electric
appliances that we're talking about.
appliances that we're talking about will have to bear the
continued.
continued cost to maintain and deliver.
continued cost to maintain and deliver the natural gas to
that system as
we continue to draw manned.
We continue to draw mandate Force other buildings and
customers to.
customers to move off of gas onto Electric.
So smaller base. I got it. So if
for electricity vary and I imagine gas costs vary across
region as well. So I don't know that we'll have an answer
to that. So maybe it's averages from the Department of
energy. Um,
I mean, I guess do you.
I mean, I guess do you continue to maintain that if if
C that customers in Chicago should they have the choice
between
Gas and Electric the gas will generally be cheaper. Do you
continue to maintain that? Yes, we continue to maintain it.
and continue to give that opportunity of consumer Choice
versus a mandate.
Okay. I was just looking to clarify that Madam chair when
I'm I'm all set. Thank you very much.
um, we've got
Um, we've got Alderman Moore next.
Thank you chairman. So just going back to what you said and
there were ultimate Conway to my earlier question when I
was talking about the fixed cost. Is that what you're
telling me that that?
telling me that that cost will be passed on?
telling me that that cost will be passed on to those that
are not.
Converted over to like yes, it will be passed on.
Converted over to like yes, it will be passed on to the
remaining gas customers as these exist.
remaining gas customers as these existing customers that
were on gas are no longer on.
were on gas are no longer on gas. There are only on
electric.
and
And have you all done any analysis like I was asking?
And have you all done any analysis? Like I was asking the
city to uh provide from?
city to uh provide from a incremental standpoint even but
just based on the units.
just based on the units they're talking about do we know
have you done?
have you done any numbers on what that
in that that extra cost that I mean that cost would look
like
in that that extra cost that I mean that cost would look
like no we haven't but we're we're in we're going to
working on that. We will provide that through the through
the
chair. All right and
Can I can I a point of clarification for the 3 of the chair
request?
requests? I just want to make sure we get that. Um, so
through the chair. Um Alderman Moore I want to understand
your question is can people's gas. Tell us what they
project.
additional costs will be like, let's say Beyond year 1 year
2 should this pass and I want to be clear that as we're
talking about the 800.
talking about the 800 to 900, uh buildings. Um,
We are not talking about.
taking anyone off of your
Taking anyone off of your of your base because we're
talking about new buildings.
talking about new buildings that aren't customers. And so
as you're providing it through the chair request. I just
want to be clear on the numbers and maybe you want to
provide.
provide us even with a few scenarios. So if you have
information about because we can't pretend that
outside of this ordinance. There are people who are
converting right? So if you want to
think about the full scenario of what you can provide us of
how many how many customers do we have as a base in
Chicago?
Over the next 2 3 years what?
over the next 2 3 years what your projections show from
what you're seeing on people who might be converting and
then what we're looking at in.
then what we're looking at in the proposed 8 to 100 like
800 to 900.
800 to 900 kind of buildings if you want to round it to a
thousand, that's fine with me, um to make it easy for our
power of 10.
power of 10 conversions in our uh rudimentary math skills
here in Council. Um, but uh looking at how that cost will
impact I do think that's something we would all like to see
because it's you know,
because it's, you know hard to say
these aren't customers you.
These aren't customers you have yet and all of the sudden
things are going to cost.
things are going to cost everyone else more, but I would
love to see through the chair.
love to see through the chair what you're kind of
projections. I think it it's a at the bottom of a lot of
people's questions as we're thinking about consumer impact,
but also keeping in their
but also keeping in there in terms because I'm always
thinking from my property tax app.
thinking from my property tax appeal days and stuff like
that.
what it could be a savings to those people even though they
don't have those existing customers now because if I build
some homes now and Englewood that share their property tax
that I'm paying is going to be spread AC.
that I'm paying is going to be spread across. Absolutely. I
think that plays into like what their projections like it
would be helpful to understand like are they are they
building out and thinking of future cost based on?
building out and thinking of future cost based on uh, an
assumed number of new customers each year and I think that
that's kind of what you guys are speaking to.
that's kind of what you guys are speaking to so it would be
helpful through the chair to kind of see your numbers
reflect.
reflected. Um, so that we have an idea of what you're
talking about.
Understood. Okay. My second question is you were talking
about this Southside facility and you said going
about this Southside facility. And you said going live
soon. Where is it at?
um
I'm trying to remember that the actual 2.
I'm trying to remember that the actual 27.
87th in Vincennes green era it's a uh, where again they'll
be. Oh the um,
the robber digestor
The robber digestor. Yes. Yes. Okay that be taken. Um
The robber digestor. Yes. Yes. Okay that be taken, um food
waste and converting that and we'll be able to translate
that energy. It produces into our gas.
that energy. It produces into our gas facilities there.
and
I think this is my last question or a combination there.
So you mentioned that you also.
So you mentioned that you also do electricity you do gas
and electricity in other states. Correct, correct?
Uh, uh, there are any states.
That are similar to Chicago from a weather standpoint.
That are similar to Chicago from a weather standpoint that
you're doing all electricity in by any chance.
So we operate.
So we operate other Utilities in Minnesota.
Michigan and also obviously, Illinois and I would argue
those.
those are
uh the same whether or worse and no we are not um moving
there hasn't been a push in any of those States and uh to
move to all all electric. We have not moved people to to
all electric.
all electric now because we understand the the our cost.
constraints and some of the other issues that we provide in
our testimony, but I guess when
our testimony, but I guess what I'm asking are there. Do
you have any customers?
That's all electrical.
That's all electrical then.
So because although we haven't moved.
So because although we haven't moved to all that that's
going to city. There are some buildings right that.
going to city. There are some buildings right that are
all electrical do do you have any customers that are so
then with you being in there? I guess my follow-up question
to that.
to that was going to be have you done any compar?
to that was going to be have you done any comparisons and
things like that, but if you don't have any customers
that's all well. I I don't I don't know and
that's all. Well. I I don't I don't know and I'll we'll get
back to you on that. If we do. It's a very be a very small
percentage of customers, but we can certainly we can
certainly get back to you on that. Would you would you like
that?
that as a through the chair request Alderman more?
uh if they got some if they get a it's got
Uh, if they got some if they get a it's got to be a large
amount of customers. I mean they can still just let me know
if they do or not. You know, we'll do I I don't think there
are many and it won't it would be you know.
are many and it won't it would be, you know difficult to do
analytical. It was only a follow-up question to do.
analytical. It was only a follow-up question to do some
type of uh comparable, so don't worry about it.
type of uh comparable. So don't worry about it. I don't I
mean based on his answer. Don't worry about it. No,
you. That's all I have right now. Thank you.
Alderman Lopez your next
thank you and good early afternoon.
thank you and good early afternoon everybody I have.
a couple questions before I do I just want to
thank people's guests.
uh for a lot of the work
Uh for a lot of the work that they've been doing in our
communities to upgrade their service to keep it.
communities to upgrade their service to keep it safe.
Um, and since it was alluded to earlier about the decision
to kind of put the kibosh.
to kind of put the kibosh on those programs. Um, I think
that is a huge mistake because investing in the immediate.
that is a huge mistake because investing in the immediate
is not necessarily a slap in the face to the Future. Um,
and I think that we are all seeing the impact of that.
and I think that we are all seeing the impact of that as we
speak especially considering how many people are not.
finding themselves unemployed.
um earlier today, we heard a phrase that said
Um earlier today, we heard a phrase that said actions must
be coupled with Solutions.
The solution before us right now.
The solution before us right now is this ordinance?
But do you think that?
but do you think that the action of
restricting new construction to being only Electric
Is the justif?
Is the justifiable response to obtain that?
Is the justifiable response to obtain that and sole
response so justifiable response to obtain?
response so justifiable response to obtaining that
solution.
No.
Would you care to expound on that? Yes, there should be and
I and I'll I'll I'll edit that with.
Obviously no.
Obviously know but I also want to put this in the frame.
that uh as my colleague was just mentioning.
that uh as my colleague was just mentioning you had stated
that you operate both.
that you operate both an electrical and a gas.
divisions of your
service providing
if you were in comed's position now.
through your Electric electrical supply
Through your Electric electrical supply Supply supplying
eyes.
Would you?
Be able to do what the ordinance is also.
Be able to do what the ordinance is also requiring within
12 months based on where kmed finds it.
12 months based on where kmed finds itself.
today
Could um, could you frame that to?
could um, could you frame that to it would be helpful for a
specific market so
specific market? So Minnesota was I don't mean for you but
for their answer if they could give us an idea or if you
want to go back and separate.
want to go back and separate it to the 2, but I'm I'm kind
of going from 1 to the next so I'll just give you both at
the same time. Unless this is Maura, Georgia for the
record.
the same time unless this is Maura Georgia for the record.
I wanted to answer, uh, kind of
I wanted to answer, uh kind of with a a scenario that I
played out with the CEO.
played out with the CEO of the company and he and I were
talking and he was saying that yes, they do operate.
talking and he was saying that yes, they do operate both
electric and gas in Wisconsin and frankly.
electric and gas in Wisconsin and frankly in Wisconsin.
They would like to supply more electric and they would like
to move to a lot more.
to move to a lot more electric but they're unable to do so
because they're not able to get the kind of renewable.
energy on the grid that it would take to both um heat the
homes on those.
homes on those very cold days.
and cool those
And cool those houses on the very cold days. So when when
the weather is just kind of moderate.
they're
They're fine with the electricity Supply, especially the
renew.
renewable electricity the clean electricity.
renewable electricity the clean electricity Supply because
much of the electricity Supply is supplied by natural gas.
But so with the clean Electric
But so with the clean electricity Supply on moderate days.
they're really okay, but when you talk about the spikes,
they're really okay, but when you talk about the spikes in
weather
And he was talking about, Wisconsin.
and he was talking about Wisconsin, but I would argue it's
the same in Chicago when you've got the very cold days or
the very warm days. You need more than what just the
electric grid can supply in terms of generation.
And would you say that same?
And would you say that same scenario plays out here under
ComEd as of right now?
I would assume so I have no reason.
I would assume so I have no reason to doubt it, but
certainly Saul knows a lot more about it.
certainly Saul knows a lot more about it than I
Yeah, it would be under the same assump.
yeah, it would be under the same assumption, um on that and
going back to your first question on on again.
not being in favor of of the
Not being in favor of of the Soul electrification option.
Um
as you heard in my testimony various reasons, but the other
is just talking about the new technologies that are
barely emerging and what's not even on the
Barely emerging and what's not even on the horizon yet?
We're talking about hydrogen.
We're talking about hydrogen and renewable gas. I don't
know that anybody would have predicted.
know that anybody would have predicted 5 10 years ago that
that would be an option. So removing the underground pip.
and the natural gas system as an option and putting all
your eggs in 1 basket on the electric cables now going to
on home, I think really risks how we continue to develop a
technology and how we transport that technology.
Unfortunately. We're not going to transport hydrogen
through electric cable.
through electric cables. They're going to be transported.
through gas piping that's underground already.
Would you say that the the main issue here is that we are
all trying to put a dent.
all trying to put a dent in the amount of carbon dioxide.
That's generated.
that's generated, uh in the city of Chicago. That would be
the goal. I would agree and we we we are in favor of that
goal.
goal as you've heard. We are 4 decarbonization and the many
factors that are helping to contribute to that dcarbon.
decarbonization.
So when you were speaking in your in your opening remarks
you mentioned.
you mentioned, uh, the
Um the carbon neutral or carbon, excuse me.
um, the carbon neutral or carbon, excuse me, carbon
negative. Yes, and I believe that's the the digester. Um,
and I would remind uh this committee that in January,
um
there's
There's a resolution that was sent to this committee by.
yours truly.
Um addressing the fact that
um addressing the fact that from mayor Daly to Mayor
Emanuel to mayor lighto
Emanuel to Mayor Lightfoot. Um, we've had multiple attempts
at trying to address the reduction of greenhouse gases.
which in 2017 was recorded at nearly 33 million metric
tons.
generated within the city of Chicago.
And 1 of the other.
technologies that we
are probably in need of discussing uh as
Are probably in need of discussing uh as also referenced by
other Accords and things of that.
other Accords and things of that nature is
by other Accords and things of that nature is uh, carbon
dioxide capturing in storage, which actually pulls it out
of
the
basically pulls it out of the atmosphere and stores it so
that it's not just floating.
that it's not just floating around, um that was sent to
this Committee in.
this Committee in January so chairman I think um, that's
also something that I think it probably would be who of
this city to not just focus on the electro the total
electrification of new buildings, but also for looking at
the sum total of CO2 in our city we have to use those Tech
other additional technologies that focus on driving.
other additional technologies that focus on driving the
number down the the amount
um
I'm very familiar with the digest. I think we were there
together when it opened. I have a digester in Waiting In
The Back of the Yards.
The Back of the Yards community and I think that if we were
able to even build on the mayor's organic food.
Trash recycling that he's doing in 6 location.
Trash recycling that he's doing in 6 locations. All of
those things collectively can help add.
those things collectively can help add towards decreasing
that metric ton.
that metric tonnage. Um, probably in a lot quicker.
that metric tonnage, um, probably in a lot quicker and more
sustainable and immediate ways that simply switching off
how we build and don't build in the city of Chicago.
Um, I would ask our panel. Have you seen those?
Um, I would ask our panel. Have you seen those Technologies
in place or even are?
in place or even are you familiar with the CO2 capture the
CO2 capture?
CO2 capturing process. Um and
CO2 capturing process. Um, and what kinds of
success rates would you say?
success rates would you say that we can Implement and would
they be greater?
they be greater than just switching immediately to
electrification or would they be equal or would
electrification in your opinion?
Be greater or All the Above.
Yes, so what I can speak to and and I'm not an expert.
have to Circle back. We have a large.
have to Circle back. We have a large volume of renewable
natural gas in Wisconsin.
natural gas in Wisconsin when we talk about the dairy
farming and all those things up in.
farming and all those things up in Wisconsin and the
Packers.
Thank you. Thank you. Um, we see the volume that that
benefit brings. Um, and so yes, we we do believe building
that out.
that out here in Chicago leveraging that can definitely
make a uh, much more effective and efficient impact.
Do you think it would be faster?
Do you think it would be faster to build that out than it
would be to switch to this?
would be to switch to this to this building code changes?
Um, I'm a bit biased as you would expect.
Um, I'm a bit biased as you would expect so I would say
yes, we have a system that's there. Um, we're piloting on
the South Side on how that's going. We will definitely
learn from that and improve and as others want to
contribute to that we will connect them to the guests the
guests system.
In Alderman if I may say there's there's multiple sources.
of anoroc digesting that.
of anoroc digesting that you can produce renewable natural
gas. So think about Municipal landfills your Municipal
Solid Waste.
Solid Waste, um food waste, uh, not here in Chicago, but
animal, you know, dairy farms and large commercial Farms
have that but not here in but so there are multiple
different areas in which you can create.
different areas in which you can create renewable natural
gas. It isn't just from food sources. There's uh different
areas all organ.
areas all organic anything organically, but
based correct at some
Based correct at some point awesome. Thank you chairman.
fantastic Alderman Quinn
Thank you madam. Chair. Um
We're going on.
We're going on about 6 hours here. Um and
We're going on about 6 hours here. Um, and um, thank you.
Thank you for your patience. Um and
Thank you for your patience. Um, and as I'm digesting this
conversation, I rep.
conversation, I represent the 13th Ward, which is near
Midway Airport.
Midway Airport 98% single family dwelling.
Midway Airport 98% single family dwelling housing stock
built in the 1950s 1960s, and I'm trying to figure out
what's the blind spot for my constituent.
what's the blind spot for my constituents?
um, I presume some of
Um, I presume some of some of my constituents actually work
for people's gas. Um,
You use the word?
you use the word inequitable and that's a very serious
word.
and
I when I heard that word.
Sort of got into the potential.
Sort of got into the potential blind spot.
and so can you elaborate on your choice of that word
inequitable and in your estimation? What is the blind spot?
for the good hardworking people of 134?
Yes, so when I translate it back to that.
Yes, so when I translate it back to that those contents in
in that type of home.
They may not be able to convert.
To all electric they won't be required to.
To all electric they won't be required to but so they will
remain on the gas system.
others who can afford to go
Others who can afford to go all electric or who are
mandated to go all electric.
mandated to go all electric will no longer be on the gas.
So your constituents that remain on that gas will absorb.
the ongoing cost of maintaining the existing gas.
the ongoing cost of maintaining the existing gas system
that as that continues to dwindle.
and so you what you're saying is their bill is going to
Yes, and in what?
Yes, and in what you I think what you also said is.
all electric conversion is
All electric conversion is 50 to 75 K. Yeah, 50,000 to 7.
75,000 based on what we understand was the RFP coming off
the pilot project for a conversion. Have you?
Put any estom.
put any estimates on how this Alderman sorry you're
a little too far away from your mic. Sorry about that. Um,
a little too far away from your mic. Sorry about that. Um
any estimates on uh, your your work?
any estimates on uh, your your Workforce?
um
I'm sorry. I'm not connecting the question. I don't know.
How would this impact your adversely impact your Workforce?
Oh, um.
I mean eventually if there's less need for gas and
maintaining a gas you would.
maintaining a gas you would assume that there would be less
need.
for our workers to maintain
So when you say that it's all all the the guys and the
labor guys the the meet the people are taking the meter
reading yeah, we would definitely not be installing new
Services anymore at a rate of
900 per year
at minimum
That's that's very helpful. Thank you. Thank you madam
chair.
Thank you.
um, I believe
Um, I believe uh going to my list.
Um, I believe uh going to my list I think.
Yep, Alderman Lee is next and then D I guess.
Oh, you got me fast. Um, you guys are being more efficient
at the end.
at the end of the day.
um
Um, I had something to eat so I'm I'm good to go for a
little bit here. Um, thank you all for for being here. Um,
I'm I'm interested to pick up this conversation about the
what's the thing your carbon?
what's the thing the carbon capture or or the digest
because the Digest
because the digest I'm interested in all of these
alternative, um fuels basically, right? So I used to work
for an airline we've burned
for an airline. We've burned jet fuel for a living. Um, and
knowing that it's a it's a fossil fuel, uh United was very
committed to uh, biofuel. So they've
committed to uh biofuel. So they've they've made a lot of
Investments. Can you talk a little bit more?
Investments. Can you talk a little bit more about the
things because you I feel like you scratch the surface a
little bit. I'd like to hear a little bit more.
about um the project
about um, the projects that you have going and how much
that's producing and what the what the viability is.
of how much that will replace eventually once more.
of how much that will replace eventually once more of the
science catches up, um to making natural gas a more
renewable resource and and
renewable resource, and and I just want to repeat close to
the mic. Sorry.
the mic. Sorry you straight from do you want to repeat?
Could you repeat your question? So the question is, um,
what of the alternative uh sources of renewable natural
gas. Are you engaged with today? Um, what is the what is
the Outlook like, um for uh for these different methods of
making uh, natural gas a renewable?
making uh, natural gas a renewable resource?
Yeah, so so what I can speak to.
yeah, so so what I can speak to is what I shared now, but
what we do have is an Energy Efficiency group that partakes
is is engaged with various stakeholders on that future
technology.
technology and what could continue to develop we also
partner with GTI gas Technical Institute.
partner with GTI gas Technical Institute who is on the
front end of many of these type of techn.
front end of many of these type of Technologies as well.
What we can do is look to Circle back through our
department.
department that specializes in that and share some of that
information.
information if that's okay. If you can provide that through
the chair, that would be great and just you know to add um
your your question. It's a very
your your question it's a very it's a great question
because it kind of gets to the Crux of of what we're
talking about.
talking about here if it's not electrification then you
know, what's the what's the other solution and as s mention
mentioned we believe that having a modern pipe distribution
system.
Will allow us.
Will allow us to take advantage of these emerging and new
techn.
technologies, um with the existing structure we have right
now.
now at a much lower cost. Um,
now at a much lower cost, um there the the Biden
Administration just announced to I think about 6 months
ago,
ago. I don't know the I forget the exact number, um,
It was big a hydro.
It was big a hydrogen hubs for the state of Illinois.
millions of dollars to create hydrogen hub.
millions of dollars to create hydrogen hubs in in the state
of Illinois now,
of Illinois. Now those hydrogen hubs are going to be used
current.
currently primarily for transportation agricult.
currently primarily for transportation agricultural sectors
of Illinois. These are not it's not a hydrogen Hub to
deliver hydrogen in into our gas system. So I want to be
clear about that. But the point is that um, there's there's
recognition.
recognition that renewable natural gas and hydrogen could
definitely be a big part of the energy future, uh, as sell
mentioned,
mentioned our company is committed uh to a clean energy
future. I mean, we're not not aligned with with all
here on on the clean energy transition and the clean
Future that we see coming. Um,
customers though should be able to have a choice and I think
Customers though should be able to have a choice and I think
sales said it earlier but it Bears repeating putting all
your eggs.
your eggs in 1 basket could be risky. Um, and it could deny
people the opportun.
people the opportunity to take advantage of these clean
renewable sources of energy.
renewable sources of energy at a much lower cost with a
built-in existing.
built-in existing infrastructure, um, and the city of
Chicago as s mentioned already requires that new
construction,
construction have both please make sure to mute if you're
on since you are located like will halt you are not muted.
Thank you. Sorry about.
Thank you. Sorry about that. That's great. Uh
city of Chicago already requires that new new construction.
have electric and natural gas hookups. So if if the if the
customer if if if if
It is a Panacea that to go.
It is a Panacea that to go all electric. Um that that
customer.
customer can can decide, you know, they it's already built
into the code. They already are going to have that Electric
hookup, uh, they can work with their Builder and developer
and have all Electric System. We think there are reasons in
place.
place that you're not seeing a a mass. Um, Mass not new
construction going all electric. I mean, there are some
people who definitely uh feel strongly and want that
Alderman laspada wanted wanted wanted that and did it. Um,
but
Maintain those options the renewable natural gas. Is there
all of the natural?
all of the natural gas utility companies. I shouldn't say
all but throughout this country Natural Gas Utilities are
experiment.
experimenting and working on building out a renewable.
natural gas system now it is not commercially.
right now. It's going to be a very small percentage. I
don't want to I'm not I don't want to try to
you know.
you know think that this is happening soon.
You know think that this is happening soon. Um, but as
we've heard from from ComEd and under the siege of Law and
others at all electric transition would take decades.
um during that Decades of
Um during that Decades of time. Um, these Technologies We
Believe hydrogen renewable natural gas will catch up and
will be the energy source of the future that we can
distribute.
so
just so that I make sure I'm understanding all of it. Uh
are you saying?
are you saying that the existing infrastructure to deliver
natural?
natural gas could deliver hydrogen through the same?
infrastructure? Well, go ahead s
infrastructure? Well, go ahead I was um, there are current
um, testing across multiple utilities as I said
Um, testing across multiple utilities as I said GTI is
investigating where you can blend Hydro.
investigating where you can blend hydrogen with natural
gas.
and push that through your system, but we would need to
upgrade our pipes and that's part of why we're you know not
not just for safety and reliability, but hyd
not just for safety and reliability but hydrogen cannot go
through cast iron, so
through cast iron. So the existing start system in in
Chicago would not accommodate hydrogen our new system
that's going through with the plastic piping would be able
to accommodate hydrogen in the future.
point of information from Alderman Moore
um normally
Um normally answer that question. Uh, what about the the
garbage and the trash you talked about going through the
row?
the digest you said was coming online. I do the pipes.
the digest you said was coming online. I do the pipes now
or no. Yes it can.
or no? Yes, it can because of its um familiarity.
or no? Yes, it can because of its um familiarity, uh
composition with natural gas. It's much closer than
hydrogen. So those are more Al
hydrogen. So those are more alike than the blending of
hydrogen.
if I
If I may also as a point of information and sorry this is
adding.
adding to your question Alderman lie, um, you mentioned
that that digestor this is kind of what she was asking
about so you mentioned that
about. So you mentioned that digestor, um pilot was going
online.
online, but then you also just said that none of these
things were commercially viable yet because you give us a
clarification that Pilot's happening and what's it
produce are we going to be able to or Chicago is going to
start?
start using that energy now? Yeah, they will want it comes
online.
online, I guess to to and your points
When I say commercially viable I mean large.
when I say commercially viable I mean large scale, uh going
through, you know, this is 1 pilot project that's going to
inject renewable natural gas into our system. I mean, it's
going to be a fraction of the total.
going to be a fraction of the total natural gas, uh at this
point.
point in the future. We hope it when I say commercially
viable there will be a lot more.
viable there will be a lot more of the renewable natural
gas that could be used.
Uh Alderman Lee's Mike needs to come back on. Sorry.
Thank you. Um, so just staying on this topic for a minute.
um 1 of the things that we talked to comment about earlier.
is just sort of the um,
How you what how rates are driven?
how you what how rates are driven and where the investment
is, right? So where the costs are that they are similar and
you can tell me if I'm wrong about this, but
you can tell me if I'm wrong about this but uh building the
infrastructure for the delivery mechanism.
infrastructure for the delivery mechanism, um, is is your
equivalent to their their grid capacity. Is that a fair
statement to make
so our infrastructure
So our infrastructure is there we we serve those gas
customers today. What?
customers today. What we're doing is upgrading that not.
across the entire city Only in those cast iron duct.
across the entire city Only in those cast iron ductile iron
leak prone. Um
leak prone, um areas, which is what we've been doing going
back to 2012 2014. Um, so that's the difference. It's
already there. We're upgrading what's there?
already there. We're upgrading what's there and can you
give us some sense of what like how much?
Of that is in cast iron that would need.
Of that is in cast iron that would need to that you would be
targeting to upgrade essentially.
well we
Well, we've completed about 38% of the work at this.
So.
uh, I'm
Uh, I'm not how long did it take you to get to 38%
Well, we really started the program.
Well, we really started the program, uh in 2013. Okay, um,
but we you know that it had been going on.
but we you know that it had been going on a little bit
beforehand, but then we we created what we call the
accelerated.
accelerated pipe replacement program. So it really started
moving forward.
moving forward at a much higher rate in 2013. Okay, got it.
So, um and just so that I'm I continue to make sure that
I'm tracking with everything that we're talking about when
you're when you're converting from the cast.
you're when you're converting from the cast iron to the
plastic ones. The plastic pipes are the ones that would.
plastic ones. The plastic pipes are the ones that would be
potentially viable to be used with.
potentially viable to be used with uh, hydrogen natural gas
mix
so like
So like that, that's that's the ultimate goal that you're
trying to get to. Sorry. I have to stick close to the mic
and I can't look at you all at the same time to do that. Um
the um this
The um, this is a problem with this particular scene
talking to people in the Box. Um,
so
I I just want to elucidate the the sort of just comparison.
of you know, where where costs come from because we we've
talked a lot about people's increasing bills and we're
talking also about uh, what what will happen to the share
of people's Bills should certain things happen if more
people go strictly to electrification what I'm hearing from
you right now, too and
you right now too and that I hadn't thought about before um
was
um, was that a new construction? Um,
um, was that a new construction? Um at this point with the
under the the current proposal, um,
wouldn't even be allowed to have the
Wouldn't even be allowed to have the to build a hookup.
right
Right. They're they're allowed. They're allowed to build
the hook.
the hook, but they can run it. There's a question of would
would.
would they if they didn't have to okay, that's a fair.
Yeah, okay.
Yeah. Okay, so that I think that point bear
Yeah. Okay, so that I think that point Bears just you know
calling out. Um,
calling out um, because I I think you know,
calling out um, because I I think you know people should
have choices in that. Uh, but it just
have choices in that, uh, but it just it tend occurred to
me because my my my my thought about the ordinance, uh,
Madam chair, uh was that you wouldn't even have the option
to potent for the potential of let's say hydrogen down the
road you could okay,
road you could okay? Um,
did you also say that you're doing stuff around carbon
capture right now?
no our
No, our company is not doing uh conducting any carbon Capt.
capture that and that carbon capture is really done more at
the power generation source. So if you think of the the big
Power
power plants, that's where uh, and and that is
power plants that's where uh, and and that is being there
are experiments and other utilities that are working on
carbon capture and storage. It's very expensive. Uh, but
they are utilizing that technology, uh, and learning from
it and building upon it but it's more it's it's not it's
not the power plant.
location primarily
and so we we are not doing that.
I believe that was.
I believe that was Alderman Lopez's resolution. He was
refer.
referencing gotcha. Okay, um.
Sorry, I missed that part of it. Um, can we talk?
Sorry, I missed that part of it. Um, can we talk about just
so I've seen the commercials on?
so I've seen the commercials on TV, right? And if we watch
television we see things about the the ICC and replacing
the the the gas pip.
the the the gas pipes and everything. Um,
and I know that we've we've we've seen guests.
and I know that we've we've we've seen gas hikes in uh in
in the cost of natural gas. Can you talk a little bit about
what?
what the biggest driver um to
rate increases are at this point.
Yeah, I'll I'll I'll try um, and and we might need to get
you more.
you more information because none of us really work on
that's fine. You have a great experience. But so um first
first thing um,
whatever the whatever the cost of natural gas is um is a
cost that gets passed on to the customer without any
markup. So we make no money on the cost of natural gas.
Okay.
Okay, and um,
these are very rough numbers, so I don't want
These are very rough numbers. So I don't want to but so
about a third of that is the is is the cost of natural gas
and and and the cost of natural gas has been going down.
Um, you know, obviously there are spikes after.
Um, you know, obviously there are spikes after the the
Russian invasion of Ukraine. There was a huge spike in the
cost of natural gas but since then, um,
cost of natural gas but since then, um the cost
massive come down the projections are for for these are you
know unbiased uh, um, Federal Energy Information.
know unbiased uh, um Federal Energy Information System
sources that say the cost because the United States is the
Saudi Arabia of natural gas we
Saudi Arabia of natural gas. We it's estimated. We have
enough natural gas in the United States for 250 years. Um,
so the cost is um is is going down so that that's
so the cost is um is is going down so that and that's 1 and
we we purchase our we purchased our natural.
we we purchase our we purchased our natural gas. We have a
storage Field in
storage field in central, Michigan. So we buy and try to
buy some of it in
some of it in the summer when the costs are really low
because people aren't using much natural.
because people aren't using much natural gas and store it
there and pump it out in the winter. Um, some of it are we
buy, you know on the spot as they call it some of them we
Hedge for the future, so we try to diversify so that we can
maintain the lowest cost of the natural.
maintain the lowest cost of the natural gas and those low
costs are passed on to our customers. Um the other
costs are passed on to our customers, um the other third of
it and I this kind of gets I think to
of it and I this kind of gets I think to your earlier
question is what we call distribution charges.
question is what we call distribution charges similar to
To similar to ComEd but on the electric side.
to similar to ComEd but on the electric side not Apples to
Apples comparison our distribution system, uh in the
Investments we make in there and the maintenance and
operation. Um our uh,
operation, um, our uh, another about a third of the cost to
the to the customer.
the to the customer bill, uh, and then the other third are
uh, fees taxes, um and other regulatory
uh, fees taxes, um, and other regulatory items like that
and again, not a definite
and again not a definite 1 third 1 third 1 third but
generally on the other side, I don't want to be but that's
that's kind of the makeup of of a of a bill know. I
appreciate the the rather back of the envelope simplistic
view of that because it it sounds to me.
You you back out taxes and fees which you have nothing.
do with at the end of the day. It's state taxes, whatever
the municipalities are. Um, it it's it sounds to me that
it's it's half the cost of the gas that you're passing.
along because you're purchasing that you don't generate it
yourself. Um, and then the the other half of that being
distribution charges which includes the cost of your
infrastructure,
infrastructure the replacing of the pipes and all of that,
okay?
Okay, that's perfect. That's all I've got. Thank you very
much. Appreciate it.
Thank you. Thank you.
Thank you. Thank you, Alderman Vas.
Thank you.
um
I'll start off because you made us you made a comment. You
said that?
said that um
there was the the
There was the these meetings that took place and that you
would have you've asked you were.
would have you've asked you were asked you asked to be a
part of those meetings, but you
Allowed to be a participant is that accurate?
Yeah, that's for the dcarbon.
Yeah, that's for the decarbonization task force. Would it
be like to have been a participant?
be like to have been a participant we we asked our our
yeah, we reached out.
yeah, we reached out and but we were told we could we could
participate it as a you know monitor. So but we not a seat
at the table person, you know per se.
at the table person, you know per se so you could watch the
game. You just could play it.
Okay, thank you. Um
and you heard if you were here in a gallery earlier, you
know, the
know the answer to this so
Are you aware? How cold it was on January?
Are you aware? How cold it was on January 15th of this
year?
All right, so minus 10.
and the question is
And the question is without natural gas with the demand
need.
needed to supply residents in Chicago and surrounding
suburbs.
With the capacity to heat their homes have been met.
where they met
for the gas company that was okay. That was our Super Bowl
and we delivered on that day. That's awesome.
I don't know you guys are from Green Bay, so I don't know.
about that.
No.
No Salah, this is Chicago. Okay all
No Salah, this is Chicago. Okay. All right, we own a utility
in with gotcha. Okay. Uh, do you know how much?
no strike that 1
No strike that 1 uh, do we know how long the nuclear plants
are certified?
are certified for?
And how long will these plants last?
And how long will these plants last or what happens when
these plants are retired?
No, I'm sorry I do.
No, I'm sorry. I do not know. Okay.
I was just asking because obviously as we're delivering
electricity. There's different modes. I
electricity, there's different modes. I just was curious as
to whether or not you know about that. So that's all my
questions Madam chair.
Thank you.
Um, I have a few questions.
And uh before we move on to our next segment.
And uh before we move on to our next segment and a couple
of them were clarified by colleagues, so I apprec.
of them were clarified by colleagues. So I appreciate that.
Um,
um, I'm wondering and this is following.
Um, I'm wondering and this is following up. I know um
uh, my colleague Alderman Lopez was trying
Uh, my colleague Alderman Lopez was trying to you know was
asking you guys some questions.
asking you guys some questions, um that you were answering
with a lot of assumptions.
with a lot of assumptions, but honestly in the spirit of
why we're having the hearing more information for us is
better.
better, so you're whack right you said?
better. So you're whack right? You said it does gas and
electricity. Um,
electricity, um and other multiple markets and you know if
we want to you guys could pick it you you've talked about
Wisconsin a little bit. Um, and I know you know if you can
pick a comparable Market there I am.
pick a comparable Market there I am kind of curious right
as to you know, the the questions were about
You know did what was did whack want more Electric?
You know did what was did whack want more electricity could
whack do this, right?
whack do this? Right? Um, I I I appreciate your answers and
I appreciate the questions but
you know shrugs assumptions and in general things without
having any.
having any numerical context is not helpful for me. So I'm
wondering if you guys can provide.
wondering if you guys can provide similar information so we
can compare apples to apples.
can compare apples to apples, um to what ComEd did um, so
don't know if you want to provide that on a Statewide level
for Wisconsin or if you could talk about it, and I'm
assuming you don't have them now, but if you could provide
them maybe just for the Milwaukee area, however, you divide
your service but thinking about we saw from ComEd kind of
like their kilowatts.
like their kilowatts like the amount of energy that they
produce they looked at. We looked at the supply and demand
piece and a lot of their uh information that they provided
to us as we're asking,
to us as we're asking questions about whether whether ComEd
could produce what we would potentially need.
move forward. Um, and even Beyond right?
I would like to know since you guys.
I would like to know since you guys felt, you know compelled
to answer on these things. Um if you could provide that
information for a comparable Market or or something from
wax so through the chair it would be helpful to
wax so through the chair, it would be helpful to see I know
it's not going to be completely the same but you know,
what's the energy production and demand what's your supply?
and demand info? What what wax?
and demand info what what wax outage and Maria and
reliability numbers are as well.
reliability numbers are as well because I think that if
we're going to be asking for your expertise to weigh in on
you know the energy
component and electricity here that I would like to know
how wax Stacks up um to ComEd so just through the chair.
Um, we covered the fact that um hydrogen can't go through
old.
old pipes. So I guess I want to get to that question about
the system.
um
Madam chair. May I ask a question first so do
Madam chair. May I ask a question first? So do you mean
provide a PowerPoint like uh
provide a PowerPoint? Like uh ComEd it doesn't know no. No,
it doesn't have to be a PowerPoint. It could be an email.
it doesn't have to be a PowerPoint. It could be an email,
um, because if you if you give us that PowerPoint,
Um, because if you if you give us that PowerPoint, we can
try and duplicate it for an alternative.
try and duplicate it for an alternative view. Oh, we we
could share it. It doesn't even have to be in the same
visual way it was.
visual way. It was more like a the just the data behind it.
Okay. Um, but yeah we can
Okay. Um, but yeah, we can absolutely share like kind of
the data and we'll we'll get that to you more formally so
it's easier just just so we know what because I'm assum.
it's this like, I'm sure it's the same publicly available.
kind of information. It would just be helpful for contacts
to know like, what's whack doing in, Wisconsin?
to know like what's whack doing in Wisconsin electricity?
wise um in order to think about your expertise in weighing
in on what position right? We are in in Chicago with our
electric provider. Um, so just a thought.
Um, and yes, we can do that. Um, so thinking about the
safety upgrades, um,
safety upgrades. Um, so you guys know because we've talked
in we've talked in private. Um, I've had private meetings
I've had meetings with people's gas you guys.
I had it I did it. I have meetings with people's gaps. We
talked. Um, uh, this has come up in private.
talked. Um, uh, this has come up in private meetings, but
of course, this is um cab
of course, this is um Cabo in this ordinance aside, I think
1 of the biggest concerns.
1 of the biggest concerns that you frequently hear from the
city from Council and we hear from constituents is
about the upgrades to the system and so in in the whole of
this context and as we are trying to make these really big
decisions.
uh
Uh, it's 1 of the things that I struggle with is, you know,
I've told you guys.
I've told you guys you're going to be here for for decades
to come right? We know that even if a transition happens a
transition is not going to be fast. Um, and that we need
you guys as partners in working for a just transition.
transitioning to electric or another energy source is what
we need to do and what's best for Chicago, right? Um, and
that trust is hard to it's hard to trust when when we're
not seeing the performance that we need. So I think you
mentioned 2013 was really maybe like
In Earnest the start of a lot of the upgrades.
In Earnest the start of a lot of the upgrades to the safety
system. It's 202.
system. It's 2024. Can you share what percent?
system. It's 2024. Can you share what percent of those
safety upgrades have been completed?
Yep, 38%
I'm sorry 38 38.
I'm sorry 38 38% of the upgrades, um over.
I'm sorry, 38 38% of the upgrades, um over let's say 10
years because we're not done with 20.
years because we're not done with 2024. Um, I know and this
came up.
came up in our last meeting that you know outside.
came up in our last meeting that you know outside of our
region, but here in our state I think nyore.
region, but here in our state I think nyore completed all
of their upgrades in 10 years.
and and that 1 of the 1 of the
And and that 1 of the 1 of the issues and and this is
leading to a question.
leading to a question how much longer are Chicagoans going
to have?
to have to wait? Like, what's your projection now and and
I asked this knowing that in convers.
I asked this knowing that in conversations with labor
Partners. Um
Partners, um, what keeps coming up are a lot of their
concerns.
concerns about less work that they think is going to happen
with this ordinance, but they're already having less work.
because you're slowing down work, right? Um, so what's
what's going on how?
what's going on? How much longer and how much more are
Chicagoans going to have to pay because we've given you
you've received rate increase after rate increase your
parent companies.
parent companies making record profits, but it's really
hard to have like a level set trustworthy conversation with
you guys.
you guys as a partner when you're not coming through
how many more years will it take you to?
so so so what I can share is where we were on track at the
end of last year before.
end of last year before the ICC paused our infrastructure.
end of last year before the ICC paused our infrastructure
Improvement and since 2015 when WC energy, um acquired
people's gas. We've been on budget and on task our range
was 8 to 11.
was 8 to 11 million from 2030.
was 8 to 11 million from 2030 to 2040 shoot, you know.
reaching for a 2035 completion and that's where we were
continuing to work through until that.
continuing to work through until that pause happened at the
tail end of 2023. Now we are working.
tail end of 2023. Now we are working with the ICC through
the current dockets.
the current dockets to determine what the best strategy is
to move forward. There's agreement that there's a need to
continue to replace the Aging infrastructure as has been
shared has been reinforced by multiple engineering firms on
the um,
Extended use useful life of those assets underground and
now it's a question of what does that program? Look forward
as we worked with the ICC in various stakeholders on that?
continued program?
I know that.
Right as the ICC case kind of goes forward. We're going to
learn more.
learn more information, but I'll say like this is going to
be a continued point of conversation I think over over.
coming months as we work through this.
coming months as we work through this because those are the
concerns. We're still talking about another.
concerns. We're still talking about another 6 to 16 years,
but that was before you said this pause.
but that was before you said this pause you you still got
another you still got 28.
another you still got 28 million dollars to continue work
even though ICC pause kind of your your case for a rate.
hike.
Yeah for your your kind of emergency purposes to kind of
fix things. Um
all that to say the rate payers have given.
all that to say the rate payers have given you a lot of
money and you hold the trust of a public.
money and you hold the trust of a public utility and and
you haven't come through. Um wec weak took over 2 years.
into the project. Um, this just seems to be a really long
time.
time and we're not getting sufficient answers. Um, so as we
talk,
talk about what our Energy Future is going to be I need
people's gas to really think about what your role is.
Um, and that's we we need you to show up so
Um, and that's we we need you to show up. So I appreciate a
lot of my colleagues.
lot of my colleagues, uh points and questions about the
roles that different stakeholders.
roles that different stakeholders have in the conversation,
I think.
I think that we'll continue in the spirit of this.
Uh hearing to want to include you guys.
Uh hearing to want to include you guys in that conversation
as we go forward. Um, but I just want to paint that
contrast of like we've got a system that has safety issues.
We've got a company that's been passed with
keeping us in a safe and reliable.
Keeping us in a safe and reliable system, and we're going
to need you to continue to do so. Um, so I appreciate.
I don't have more other.
I don't have more other questions for you. I appreciate the
time, especially.
time, especially your patience in today. Um, we will follow
up in.
up in writing with some of those through the chair
requests, um once so that you've got them in writing so
that you know, what you committed to responding to and you
can get back to us. Um, and I is it a comment please a
comment not a question. Yeah. Okay Alderman Lopez
just 1 real question quick.
Just 1 real question quick question beginning of your
statements. You said that you'd offered to be contrib?
statements. You said that you'd offered to be contributing
partners and not just Alderman Vegas brought it.
partners and not just Alderman Vegas brought it up again
already. Yeah, and I I heard that that was what the working
group.
group in the last Administration.
Okay.
Okay, I that I didn't hear who told him that it was that.
working group was the 2021 to 2022 working group?
working group was the 2021 to 2022 working group. So it
would have been under the last Administration. So I I think
we we're in a new space. I just wasn't sure where that
came.
from. Thank you. Yeah, um.
Oh, um, I do I I lied. I have 1 more question. I'm so sorry.
You got you got excited you thought you were going to
to get to go. Um
This is actually about some of the new technologies and this
this.
this is maybe a quick question and you may not even have
the answer. So as we both talked about the these like
Innovations with hydrogen and kind of mixing with natural
gas.
gas, but also the um kind of renewable.
gas, but also the um kind of renewable natural gas, uh
digesting, uh, would either of these Technologies meet the
em.
emission standards that we're seeing to have
we've looked at it and
We've looked at it and um, no no for renewable natural gas.
unknown for hydrogen. I think it would for hydrogen. We're
pretty certain but not for renewable.
pretty certain but not for renewable natural gas. It would
have to come it would have to be increased a little bit.
It's currently it's a the ordinance is at 25. Um,
gas. I think emits I want to say
gas. I think emits. I want to say 50, uh and renewable
natural gas.
natural gas would get get lower get close to 25, but I
don't know that we don't know exactly for sure whether it
could meet that.
could meet that 25 and Sher head and I just I want to re um
reconfirm your statement.
um, reconfirm your statement. We definitely want to be at
the table and have those discussions we want to ensure
we're providing safe reliable environment and sustainable.
natural gas for the continued. Um need of Chicago next
year. We're celebrating 175.
year. We're celebrating 175 years with Chicago and our goal
is to continue to do that provide that level of service and
energy for the city.
Okay. Thank you. Thank you all for your time and your test.
testimony today. All right, we're swapping out. Um, this
concludes our third segment. Um,
yeah.
Yeah, we are uh gonna take a a just a quick transition.
break and we're going to bring up some of the Environ.
uh proponents of the ordinance and
environmental, uh, proponents of the ordinance and our
final segment. We saved the best.
final segment. We saved the best for last because we know
people will stay by the way if you're wondering
people will stay by the way, if you're wondering labor
Partners while you're last it's because everyone wants to
hear you.
hear you and that's how we guarantee people will hang
around to the end of the hearing. Um, so we'll make our
Transitions and uh, we'll get started very shortly.
and
And we're back.
all
All right, welcome back, uh hearing's back in order. So
during this next segment. We're going to hear testimony.
from environmental proponents of the Kappa ordinance.
we are going to start um with
um, Sarah
actually, uh, so just uh before each of you, uh, give your
testimony. You can just introduce yourself.
Yes.
Yes, ma'am.
Good afternoon, everybody.
You excited to be here feeling feeling jazz.
You excited to be here feeling feeling Jazz. Yeah, I am. My
name is Sarah moscowitz. I am the EXE.
name is Sarah moscowitz. I am the executive director at the
citizens Utility Board or cub, and I'd like to thank the
zoning and environmental.
zoning and Environmental Protection committee for holding
this hearing and thank you to the committee.
this hearing and thank you to the committee chairs
alderwoman Maria Haden and alderman.
alderwoman Maria Haden and Alderman Carlos Ramirez Rosa for
giving me the opportunity to express my support for the
clean and affordable buildings ordinance.
There are many good reasons to support.
There are many good reasons to support this ordinance. But
as a consumer Advocate I tend to focus on financial
benefits.
in short we need Cabo because
In short we need Cabo because we can't afford our gas
bills.
because electric heat alternatives are.
because electric heat alternatives are superior and because
there's an urgency to manage a market transition that has
already begun.
despite what people's
Despite what people's gas says far from being a cheap.
reliable way to heat our homes gas has
reliable way to heat. Our homes gas has plunged our city
into crisis.
for years now about 1 in 5 people's gas customers has been
consistently 30 days or more behind on their bills.
consistently 30 days or more behind on their bills and
black and brown neighborhoods. Carry a diss.
black and brown neighborhoods. Carry a disproportionate
burden.
in several communities including Englewood Southshore
chadam Auburn GRE
chadam Auburn Gresham and Woodland 30 to 40% of our
neighbors are chronically unable to afford their gas bill.
neighbors are chronically unable to afford their gas bills.
The average debt is about $500.
The average debt is about $500 or Worse approaching a
thousand dollars in some areas.
I actually encourage everyone here to look.
I actually encourage everyone here to look up the people's
gas credit and collections data for their zip.
gas credit and collections data for their zip code. I can
show you where to find it on the ICC website it.
show you where to find it on the ICC website. It is
fascinating and heartbreaking.
The situation is so dire that late last year state.
Regulators rightfully stepped in to pause people's.
Regulators rightfully stepped in to pause people's gases
pip replacement program which has
pip replacement program, which has delivered record profits
for the utility, but
for the utility but is billions of dollars over budget and
has failed to make us safer.
people's own consultant reported in 2020 that the project
had not led to a noticeable reduction in pipeline fail.
rates.
So what I asked have we been paying?
So what I asked have we been paying for?
our gas utility has
Our gas utility has a credibility problem.
Dr. Morrow was scheduled to speak to us this afternoon about
the harmful effects of burning gas in the home, but she had
patient.
patients to see um before we got to this section of the
hearing.
the hearing.
Just a few months ago.
just a few months ago during a hearing of the Environmental
Protection committee the president of
Protection committee. The president of people's gas
testified in front of many of the same Alders presiding
over today's hear.
over today's hearing that the company knows of no research.
over today's hearing that the company knows of no research
linking health risks to gas.
linking health risks to gas none. He claimed
his comment raised
His comment raised eyebrows at the time in fact alderwoman
Haden.
Haden commented that it sounded like she was at a hearing
on big.
on big tobacco.
And now we know people's gas.
And now we know people's gas didn't level with you.
2 weeks ago wgntv reported that in 1974 50 years ago the
then president of people's gas.
then president of people's gas served on the board of a
research organization that conducted studies concerned.
That was their
was their word concerned with what they called pollut.
emissions generated by gas.
emissions generated by gas burners.
this came at a time when according to
This came at a time when according to a recent
investigative report by NPR the entire American gas
industry was colluding on a PR campaign aimed at combating
an emerging body.
an emerging body of research linking gas burners to
problems such as childhood asthma.
in the ensuing 50 years that body of evidence has
In the ensuing 50 years that body of evidence has continued
to expand and represents a scient.
to expand and represents a scientific and medical consensus
still people.
still people's gas came before many of you only 5 years.
ago. Sorry months ago.
It's been a long day 5 months ago in December.
It's been a long day 5 months ago in December about this
crucial matter of public health.
What can we conclude from all this as we sit here?
What can we conclude from all this as we sit here today?
Chicago's dependency on natural gas is costing your
constituents.
constituents a fortune and appears to be endangering their
health.
health as well.
We need to build opportun.
We need to build opportunities for Alternatives and that's
what Cabo is about.
this proposed ordinance represents an
This proposed ordinance represents an e excellent Economic
Opportunity for Chicago.
Opportunity for Chicagoans study after study has shown that
electr.
electrified homes are cheaper to build and maintain.
electrified homes are cheaper to build and maintain an
Energy Futures group report showed that new gas.
Energy Futures group report showed that new gas-free
construction can save Chicagoans between 15,000 and 20000
over a 20-year.
dollars over a 20-year period
rmi's analysis found that all electric households saved
money in every scenario.
money in every scenario assess.
customers have caught on to these benefits and are choosing
alternatives to gas for the second consecutive year heat
pumps have out.
pumps have outsold gas furnaces.
cabba would help the
Cabba would help the city catch up to where the market is
already progressed.
already progressing.
This is a crucial because customers fed up with their high
gas bills will not wait for us.
if Chicago doesn't start preparing for
If Chicago doesn't start preparing for this future, we run
the risk of leaving our most.
the risk of leaving our most vulnerable consumers behind.
so ultimately Cabo is about
So ultimately Cabo is about wise planning. It's the first
step.
step in a thoughtful managed transition away from expens.
step in a thoughtful managed transition away from expensive
volatile. Fossil fuels. It's about refusing to saddle
future, Chicago.
Chicago winds to an outmoded expensive and unsafe.
technology and it's a first step toward a
technology. And it's a first step toward a future that
gives all Chicagoans no matter their zip code.
The opportunity to save money on their heating bills.
So I urge Chicago to pass.
So I urge Chicago to pass Cabo. Thank you for your time.
Thank you so much.
We still got some en.
We still got some enthusiasm in the room. I appreciate
that. Um next for going to hear from Sandra, hen.
that. Um next for going to hear from Sandra Henry from uh
with slipstream.
stream gratitude for being here today and um having
chance to express uh support for Cabo.
My name is Sandra Henry. I'm an engineer with over 30 years
of experience.
of experience in buildings controls Energy Efficiency and
sustainability. I've had the privilege of serving in a few
leadership.
leadership roles in our industry and currently serve as CEO
of slipstream.
Slipstream is a nonprofit whose mission?
slipstream is a nonprofit whose mission is accelerating
climate solutions for everyone and our vision is that all
communities will benefit from a fossil free.
environment by 2040.
We have Offices here in Chicago, Madison, Wisconsin.
We have Offices here in Chicago, Madison, Wisconsin,
Michigan, Massachusetts. And
Michigan, Massachusetts and other cities across the
country. We're engineers educ.
country. We're Engineers Educators policy experts Finance
professionals.
professionals program managers focused on advancing.
Efficiency and sustainability in building.
Slipstream is managed several new construction.
Slipstream is managed several new construction programs for
Utilities in this in.
Utilities in this in in the Midwest and served as a
principal investigator on.
principal investigator on a variety of related research
projects.
projects and our learnings. Tell us 2 things. Once the
building is constructed it's there for at least 50 years
and if we don't include Energy Efficiency measures in the
design process process, it's incredibly challenging and
expensive to retrofit the building's layer on.
in addition retrofits often happen much later in the life
of a building, which means we've
of a building which means we've missed a key opportunity to
save energy and money at the time of design.
techn
Technology the second thing I want to share. Is that the
technology to elect?
technology to Electrify your buildings is available right
now. We don't have to wait for the technology to catch up
to our needs.
slipstream and other organizations that Sarah just
mentioned have conducted solid research to confirm that
the simple electrification Playbook
is to start with Energy Efficiency
Is to start with Energy Efficiency, it's the single most
cost-effective thing.
cost-effective thing any building owner or operator can do
today and it will save you money and energy in immediately.
The second step in electrifying buildings is to look at
your equipment options and work with expert.
your equipment options and work with experts in this room,
uh to help prior.
uh to help prioritize those options those 2 steps apply.
new Construction and building retrofit.
new Construction and building retrofits.
Now I'm going to switch to work.
now I'm going to switch to Workforce because I think this
is something that come up, but we haven't touched on yet.
Um according to
Um, according to e for the future.org about 8.
Um, according to e for the future.org about 84,000 people
work in clean energy in Illinois.
work in clean energy in Illinois right now and most of
those jobs are in new construction.
the number of jobs created
in clean energy is outpacing.
in clean energy is outpacing the number of trained and
available workers and contractors.
available workers and contractors needed to Electrify.
Our buildings right now, including new construction.
Our buildings right now including new construction with the
city's commitment to reach 62.
city's commitment to reach 62% carbon emissions reduction
by 204.
by 2040 and 70% of our carbon emissions coming from
buildings a clear opportunity.
buildings a clear opportunity sits to grow jobs at the
intersection of reducing building emissions and developing
workers.
workers and contractors. We need plumbers.
workers and contractors. We need plumbers for heat pump
water heaters and other water heating needs.
water heaters and other water heating needs in our
buildings. We need sheet metal workers in H.
buildings. We need sheet metal workers in HVAC workers for
heat pump installation.
We need electricians for installing electrical panels.
sizing them to meet the load and then preparing our
buildings for solar. We need controls and ventilation
experts.
experts to ensure the buildings are operating as designed.
A bonus to growing and supporting a strong.
A bonus to growing and supporting a strong clean energy
Workforce. Is that many of the skill?
Workforce is that many of the skill sets needed in new
construction readily?
construction readily transfer to retrofitting and
electrifying existing.
electrifying existing buildings.
Thank you.
Thank you very much.
Um now we're going to hear from uh, ha
uh, thank you and
Uh, thank you. And uh, thank you chair, um in 1999 my
mother received a $100 gas bill. Oh, um, uh, sorry, uh, if
you could start with your introduction, I
you could start with your introduction I was going I'm I'm
working into it. I promise, uh,
working into it. I promise uh in 1999. My mother received a
$100 gas bill.
We had an inefficient home and she was.
We had an inefficient home and she was only making 10 bucks
an hour. So unfortunately.
an hour. So unfortunately our gas got shut off and we had
to boil water for almost a year.
to boil water for almost a year to take a bath.
when I tell that story around the country, but particularly
in our city here on the South and West sides.
It is met with nods of a walk of a passage that
experience far too often.
Our communities have been dealing with this for decades.
when I tell this to folks in San Francisco and Silicon
Valley, uh, they are shock and awe as if I'm telling a
story from the 1800s.
but
today I say that I'm the founder.
today I say that I'm the founder of 548 development. I'm AJ
patent.
patent and we build energy efficient and solar.
affordable housing here in the city of Chicago.
Uh, we currently build in the Auburn gresch.
uh, we currently build in the Auburn Gresham Community, uh,
North Lawndale South Chicago and and a near South l
North Lawndale South Chicago and and a near South Loop.
We're building UH 60 units of pass.
We're building UH 60 units of passive house all electric
affordable housing in West humble.
affordable housing in West humble park. That's Alderman
Emma mitts, uh, we're doing another
Emma mitts. Uh, we're doing another 47 units all electric
affordable housing. Uh, that's in Alderman Chico. I believe
it's the 10th Ward.
it's the 10th Ward ugh 40 more units. I don't know what my
numbers anymore, uh Alderman dowels
numbers anymore, uh, Alderman dowels, uh and Beyond we're
doing solar powered, uh Industrial in Alderman Monique,
Scott Ward. I also found
did the 548 Foundation because as I went on my job sites,
they did not reflect the communities that I was investing
in. So I started the 54.
in. So I started the 548 Foundation to do Workforce
training so that young folks.
training so that young folks in that Community would get
access and the training necessary.
access and the training necessary to participate in the
jobs and the Investments that I was making.
jobs and the Investments that I was making in the
communities that needed it most.
So I come here today in support.
So I come here today in support of Cabo.
Because we've been making these Investments.
because we've been making these Investments for now 7 years
and our tenants have now received over 1.
and our tenants have now received over 1 third reduction in
their utility EXP.
their utility expenses, and I've delivered over double
digit returns to my investors.
I want to just State for the record. I am a for-profit. I
did this as this is my job.
did this as this is my job and we are a for-profit my 501c.
did this as this is my job and we are a for-profit my
and we're doing this.
and we're doing this in projects as small as 6 Flats.
North Lawndale to as big as the 60 units and the small.
grocery store and West Humble Park that I'm building as
well as training centers on Roosevelt Road that we've
announced for some time with mega developer.
announced for some time with mega developer, uh as a
co-developer related Midwest and Cleo
so in support of this
So in support of this, I believe that it is a common sense
step towards connecting.
step towards connecting Chicagoans to all electric new
buildings.
buildings and simply put all electric buildings are cheaper
to build cheaper to maintain newly constructed.
buildings will have lower energy bills than fossil fuel
buildings.
buildings because heat pumps are far more efficient.
than our older systems.
Energy Futures group 20122 report on Chicago found that
residents living in all electric buildings whether it be
multifamily and single family.
multifamily and single family could see Energy savings
upwards of a thousand in the first year alone. That's real
money and real savings and I've I've hosted multiple
Alderman in our buildings to showcase the impact of that.
smart companies are already doing it and doing all
electric.
in Chicago the new Salesforce Tower which I'm sure has
already been discussed.
already been discussed, uh is 1 of the largest commercial
building develop.
building developments in downtown Chicago and was built all
electric Google.
electric Google's highly anticipated Redevelopment of the
iconic.
iconic Thompson Center is also planned to be built to all
electric.
electric to align with its ambitious goal to operate on a
24/7 carbon-free energy by 2030.
I believe now is the time.
I believe now is the time for Chicago to move on and move
forward and I think cab.
forward and I think Cabo does just that right now more than
12.
12,000 workers in Chicago are already making.
cleaner and more efficient. That's twice as many as those
employed.
employed in buildings powered by fossil fuels jobs.
clean building industry range from replacing old
insulation.
in homes and fitting new pipes for heating and cooling.
buildings to install.
electric stoves and heat pumps and here's the best
Electric stoves and heat pumps and here's the best part the
vast majority of cleaning.
vast majority of cleaning of clean building jobs related to
the electrification of buildings. Do not require higher
education.
education on average these 80% of these jobs are overwhelm.
overwhelmingly. They provide health care and annual.
overwhelmingly. They provide health care and annual wages
between 57,000 and 83.
between 57,000 and 830004 electricians those positions
aren't jobs. Those are careers.
and they're
And they're available without the expenses and debt of a 4
year college. Um respect my older daughter, of course.
year college. Um respect my older daughter, of course, um,
and from a business standpoint and an equity standpoint, I
believe Cabo is the appropriate thing for this moment and
meets the moment.
meets the moment and it could mean real opportunities for
young black.
young black and brown people in this part in every part of
Chicago. Let's come together on this great opportunity.
Thank you.
Thank you very much. And I want to thank each of you for
your patience. Um and uh, I'll say um
Stam
stamina hanging in with us today. Um, so I want to open it
up to uh questions from my colleagues. I see more Conway
and Mana.
and Mana hoppenworth. We'll go in that order and add more
people Alder.
people Alderman Moore. Thank you Mr. P you you in this
situation you had a choice.
situation you had a choice, um to go right either, um
Electric
electrical or gas right? You were not forced. Correct? Yes,
sir. And besides the
Story that many of us have um exper.
story that many of us have um experienced as you said No No
1 day nodded because everyone had been there at 1 Point.
Um, what was what was some of your other reasons for?
Um, what was what was some of your other reasons for going
all electrical versus going? Um, just going and using gas
Yeah. I mean a couple of things, you know, I'm I'm clearly
because I'm here I'm
because I'm here. I'm a True Believer and so I think
disproportionately our communities are being left out of
this conversation, uh when you
this conversation. Uh, when you think about sustainability
renewable energy folks immediately start thinking North
North Side Northshore.
North Side Northshore and uh, our communities tend to be
consistently.
consistently left over left out of those conversations.
that's both on the Contracting side development side.
that's both on the Contracting side development side across
the board and frankly the only time uh, we're the, you
know, black and brown communities are discussed is uh kind
of in passing from a Workforce conversation.
of in passing from a Workforce conversation from my
perspective. Um, also, you know, we we were there's no
fresh air being pumped in many of our communities. The only
time that you're getting fresh air and our
If you crack a window.
That's not the lived experience of people.
That's not the lived experience of people on the north side
of Roosevelt. And so, uh, we we, you know, my firm and and
I
have a good board that supports our investment strategy
felt.
felt like that. We could still do right and make money.
felt like that. We could still do right and make money in
these communities. Uh, and we did just that. Thank you and
from a cost.
from a cost standpoint. Could you have done it cheaper? Um
the other way
What what did you was there any um?
What what did you was there any um, or what? Did it cost you
more? Yeah there.
more? Yeah, there were absolutely uh Capital commitments
that were made. Um, and so it cost to put continuous fans
in bathrooms, uh higher insulation in roof.
in bathrooms, uh higher insulation and roofs, uh higher
grade Windows those costs were real but
grade Windows those costs were real, but we're long-term
holders. We're not buying and flipping so everything that
holders. We're not buying and flipping. So everything that
we build at 548. We're holding for at least a decade.
we build at 548 we're holding for at least a decade. So we
were the net benefactor of the Energy savings. That's how
we were able to return those resources back.
we were able to return those resources back to our
investors. And so, uh, we were able to benefit from those
investments in that a larger Capital commitment.
investments in that a larger Capital commitment and you
invested this on your own. Did you get any tax credits for?
Um doing electric. No, sir.
That's a problem in itself. All right. Thank you.
That's a problem in itself. All right. Thank you so much.
Appreciate it. Thank you, Mr. Moore. Thank
Appreciate it. Thank you Mr. Moore. Thank you Alvin Moore
almond Conway.
Uh, yes this this question for Mr. Patent, but I guess we
could I certainly can.
could I certainly can open it up. Um, you know, uh,
could I certainly can open it up. Um, you know, uh as a
Developer who?
Developer who has to has to implement. Um
The strategies in this ordinance what?
the strategies in this ordinance what uh
What concerns may you have about the implement?
What concerns may you have about the implementation and
impact on the market? What are the type of things should
we?
we be thinking about as we as we look to adjust it if we
do.
do, thank you Alderman. Um, I have 3 concerns so, you know,
I put a lot of thought into this. I think that this should
absolutely be paired with higher standard.
absolutely be paired with higher standards for building
insulation 1 of the the the most direct way to make a
building more efficient is to insulate the exterior walls
and put higher insulation in the roof.
hardtop, I think that absolutely
Hardtop, I think that absolutely needs that standard needs
to be raised here in the city.
Second. Um, there should be an on-site generation.
Second. Um, there should be an on-site generation standard.
every roof in the city
Every roof in the city should be covered with solar panels.
It's it's absurd to me flying in.
It's it's absurd to me flying in ohare and that that
everything in O'Hare and Midway should be covered with
solar and somehow we continuously be missed out.
solar and somehow we continuously be missed out of this
conversation.
so many jobs billions of dollars
So many jobs billions of dollars of economic impact and
we're just not doing it and it's it's it's it's it's it's
missing me.
missing me and then lastly Alderman, uh, that's Alderman
Conway. Um, you know, I have you know, we have a checkered
history of doing a good job of being inclusive with how we
Implement, uh labor opportun.
Implement, uh, labor opportunities when economic influ imp
impact directly comes to the Metro, Chicago.
impact directly comes to the Metro Chicago, so I would be I
have real concerns about multip.
have real concerns about multiple billions of dollars
coming to the city.
coming to the city in this new investment thesis and we
don't train all of the city in being prepared for this for
example.
Uh if I have uh, you know new.
Uh, if I have uh, you know new vrf systems in Alderman
Moore's w.
Moore's Ward, but all of the Train the train texts live on.
the North side, how may I get get those texts?
the North side, how may I get get those texts to come
service those communities, and we've not done a great job.
service those communities and we've not done a great job of
making sure all Wards and all communities.
making sure all Wards and all communities and all zip codes
have been trained up and prepared.
have been trained up and prepared for this new influx of
Technology. That's going to be uh imple.
Technology. That's going to be uh implemented across the
city.
Thank you. Alderman know that's that's fantastic. I that's
all I have.
all I have Madam chairwoman. Thank you.
Alderman, uh alderwoman manal hoppenworth
Thank you chair.
thanks to
Thanks to all who are in the Box.
Um, I had well firstly um, Mr. Patent. Um, I'm in the 48th
Ward Edgewater and we absolutely would love to hear more
from you and talk to you. Um, we have a very small but
dense, uh Ward and there is some development up there and
we'd love to hear more about um your other
other projects, um
I I also uh appreciate that you are here to answer.
questions for baldman Moore and con
questions for baldman Moore and Conway about how you have
been. Um, you know challenged by this moment, you know
where I think that in the 48th Ward, um many of my constitu
constituents are have been asking about development and
what are we going to do to, you know, save this planet? Um,
make sure that that there is a planet for our children and
um as I was saying,
um, as I was saying earlier the zoning advisory committee
has been Fielding, um development project.
has been Fielding, um development projects and um and like
you have um, you know proposed projects that are already in
line with our climate action plan. So I really appreciate
you being here.
um
Um, I do have a question and I am serious, please uh, come
contact me about about uh ways that we can work together
and even just learn from you, you know and your experience
um, this has been such a
Um, this has been such a fantastic, um day as long as it
is.
is, I really appreciate the time that we're spending on.
every single section. Um, I want to bring it back.
every single section. Um, I want to bring it back to my
ward and my constituents in a way that is um digestible.
Um, I'm hoping to get some help from you know you and this
committ.
committee and also, you know folks that are have been here.
to testify. Um, I'm curious about and I'm sorry.
to testify. Um, I'm curious about and I'm sorry I missed
the first
Of uh your presentation from Cub. Can you can you explain
what you your organization?
what you your organization does?
Oh, yeah, I lost over that. Um.
So Cub is a a utility.
So Cub is a a utility consumer. Advocacy organization.
We're created in.
We're created in the early 80s actually by state statute.
that statute basically gives us standing to intervene.
behalf of rate payers at uh an ICC.
behalf of rate payers at uh an ICC dockets, but we also do
a lot of consumer.
a lot of consumer education and Outreach, um throughout
community Through across the state of, Illinois.
community Through across the state of Illinois educating
folks about how to decode their bills.
folks about how to decode their bills how to spot scams and
what kinds of programs are.
what kinds of programs are available to help them save
energy and Save
energy and save money in their homes and uh We've we've
been kind of a big part of every major energy legis.
that's passed um in in Illinois since we were created,
Thanks. I appreciate that background. You know, we have a
lot of um activists in the 48th border and on the north
side, of course, we're right next to the lake.
side, of course, we're right next to the lakefront. So we
want to preserve. Um, you know the beauty
want to preserve um, you know, the beauty that we have over
there and then and um, and you got a lot of young people
who are concerned about the future of this world. Um,
wanted to know
if you were here for the previous, um folks that testified
from both ComEd and from people's guests.
You're asking me that yes.
You're asking me that yes, I was. Um, I was curious. Um,
well firstly there are there are so many things.
well firstly there are there are so many things to unpack
and a lot of things that I still need to read up on, but I
was hoping that you could talk about
Um, I think that there's confusion for me.
um, I think that there's confusion for me about what this
is going to look like how it's going to roll out in the
next probably a decade or whatever. Um, which is the reason
why I'm glad that we're taking a lot of time to talk on
this.
this, um, because again, this isn't the first or
conversation. Um, but can you talk about
renewable natural gas and options that are out there.
renewable natural gas and options that are out there and
you know how it fits in with this conversation and and uh
what we should be getting out of today. Um, yeah. Thanks
for that question. And yeah, I I'm I'm I'm excited that
we're here having this conversation.
we're here having this conversation, too. Can I just say I
you know, we've talked about Energy Efficiency and
insulation. Thank you for that. We've talked about um, you
know, the the decarbonization of our Electric System we've
talked about load shape, of course got vote from from cam.
talking about load shape and you know, we haven't talked
about rate design yet.
about rate design yet, but maybe we can get to that that's
but I you know, I 1 thing. I was kind of surprised to hear
about honestly.
about honestly, which maybe I shouldn't have been was about
Renee.
Natural gas and and hydrogen, um that came up in in people's
gases.
gases, uh section. So I
Cabo is is
energy is is is fuel neutral.
It's about indoor air quality. It's about indoor emiss.
It's about indoor air quality. It's about indoor emissions.
So if the
company that is currently our natural.
company that is currently our natural gas distributor, um,
you know has something real to point to uh that
won't
release poisonous gases into our homes I welcome that but
hydrogen
can't be transported.
can't be transported through our current gases system it it
doesn't work. Um, and so there is going to be a future for
hydrogen, you know, we've been talking about um, how
hydrogen can be used for some of those kind of hard.
decarbonize sectors industrial sectors and whatnot. But um,
you know, it seemed to me until today honestly that the
buzz about using hydrogen to heat our homes and cook our
food had kind of died out over the past couple of years,
but I guess that was naive of me, um renewable natural gas
again if
again, if renewable natural gas burned clean and didn't
emit.
emit Benzene into our homes that causes cancer then sure
great, but
great. But as far as I know, you know first renewable
natural gas, I haven't seen anything that would indicate to
me that it is at all scalable, um to the point where it can
actually make
our Heating
our heating needs in in this the
Our heating needs in in this the city. Um, and then again,
like if it burned clean then you could you could build with
it.
Thank you. I I appreciate that because it is.
Thank you. I I appreciate that because it is it's a little
confusing to me. Um when we're talking about, um people's
gas in their concerns.
gas in their concerns about the system that exists right
now and what
now and What needs to change in order to
contribute to a better world. Um, and I like that you're
talking about Cabo in terms of the um,
Neutral what did you say?
neutral what did you say neutral neutral fuel neutral f
neutral?
Fuel neutral I really um.
Fuel neutral I really um, appreciate that.
um, I know that there are
going to be questions.
going to be questions about
the cost
of of what is this going to cost? You know the city?
of of what is this going to cost, you know the city in
terms of um changing the system.
terms of um, changing the systems. What's it going to cost
us in terms of?
us in terms of job creation or loss and then in the end at
the end of the day, um, my constituents are going to want
to know how is it going to affect the their cost? Um,
to know how is it going to affect the their cost? Um their
bills and can you
can you explain how if we
If we did pass go about today.
if we did pass go about today, how would that affect my
would you be able to explain that constituents? Uh the
cost?
of their sort of? Yeah. Thank you. Alright.
of their sort of? Yeah. Thank you. Alright and you're
you're in my ultra Woman by the way, I see you again. Um,
so
how about is just for new construction?
the
The effect that is going to have on rates.
The effect that is going to have on rates is not existing
at this point.
um
because
gas bills are so high.
the economics for making the
The economics for making the change work out more quickly.
here in the city of Chicago than it does in other Juris.
jurisdictions when I go to conferences at the national
level and I'm talking about how high monthly fixed costs.
are for people's gas customers people.
are for people's gas customers people think I'm I'm
misspeaking people don't believe me. Um gas bills here in
Chicago.
Chicago are quite High. Um, and when you hear
people talking about how
People talking about how heating with electricity is more
expensive what they're talking.
expensive what they're talking about usually is resistance
Heat.
heat and that's not what we're talking about. I'm talking
about modern cold climate heat pumps.
about modern cold climate heat pumps resistance heat is is
expensive and inefficient and I wouldn't recommend any new
construction to utilize resist.
construction to utilize resistance heat, right? Um, we're
talking about heat pumps which are Super efficient.
talking about heat pumps which are Super efficient and work
really well. Um, it's kind of amazing how well they work
and they also contain an added bonus that their air
conditioners as well. So for people like me who've been
living for many years in a building that does not have air
conditioning, you know, having 1 unit that does it all is
also very appealing.
so
I too am concerned about costs right when we're talking
about.
about the clean energy transition and the costs of building
out transmission to get clean energy from where it's being
generated to our homes and stuff. These are all things that
are in the the Forefront.
are in the the Forefront of my mind as a utility rate
payer.
Advocate, but what I can tell you is this
People are already.
investigating and making this
Investigating and making this change we ran.
Investigating and making this change we ran a ground Source
heat pump bulk.
heat pump bulk purchasing program, uh in Chicago land.
summer we meaning cub and um County officials from around
Chicago land in the uh, geothermal Alliance of Illinois.
And um that
and um, that stuff's really exciting by the way, um thermal
energy Network.
thermal energy networks geothermal. That's fantastic and
talk about jobs.
talk about jobs there too. Um real need for people to do
that work.
interest in this program interests, uh in getting
geothermal or ground Source heat pumps for people's homes.
was so high that we had to shut down the program early.
was so high that we had to shut down the program early
because the contractors we were working with didn't
the capacity to meet the demand people are looking into
making this change. I ran into 1 of my old College
professors.
professors and he was telling me he found out what I did
for a living.
for a living he was telling me about how his his he went
geothermal in the city of Chicago, so,
the best way to ensure the worst possible outcomes for the
the consumers here in Chicago is to not plan for this
transition.
The worst possible outcomes will come from us not.
The worst possible outcomes will come from us not planning
and managing this transition, which is what is happening
now.
so
what are we talking about with Cabo we're talking about.
new construction. We're talking about 0.5% of buildings a
year.
It's a teen.
It's a teeny tiny little first step and I'm super happy
that we are talking.
that we are talking about this because this is going to be
a tough transition. It's going to require a lot of people
coming.
coming together and thinking creatively about how to solve
solve the problem, but I I hope we
solve the problem. But I I hope we can we can all agree
that climate change is real.
That leaking methane is not good.
That leaking methane is not good for our climate.
And that we need to do something.
And that we need to do something about it and to not do
something about it is.
something about it is irresponsible from an affordability.
standpoint from a health and safety standpoint and from a
climate standpoint. And so I think this change is
inevitable and so that's why I'm here.
excitedly talking
Excitedly talking to you all about it.
Thank you. So.
Thank you so much. I appreciate it. And I hope that uh, we
can continue to um, bring what you are, um talking about
here today.
here today back to the 48th board to the north side.
here today back to the 48th board to the north side because
you know, we had um, it seemed like this.
you know, we had um, it seems like this should all be very
um common.
um common sense. Um, and yet too many people that I know um
in our Ward,
in our Ward and we have a very engaged Ward but many
people don't know what we're talking about. So,
people don't know what we're talking about. So to break
down to them in these very Elemental,
down to them in these very Elemental ways is so important
and I know that you work,
and I know that you work very closely with the
environmental groups that are in the area.
environmental groups that are in the area Edgewater
environmental, um coalition,
environmental, um Coalition and others, so I appreciate all
that you do.
that you do for our neighborhood and also for Chicago and
for thank you for being here. Thank you chair. Thank you,
um older person lie.
Thank you madam chair.
Thank you madam. Chair. Um and thank you to our panelists
for being here.
for being here and sticking it out. We're an hour 7. W.
Um, I I really only have sort.
um, I I really only have sort of 1 question and it's
It's a big question and I don't.
It's a big question and I don't even know how you answer it.
I just and while we're having all of these conversations, I
I what strikes me is that we are.
I what strikes me is that we are it's really sort of big
existent.
existential crisis, right? We we know, um, we have
existential crisis. Right? We we know, um, we have uh
finite resources in natural gas. Um, you know, we can
debate about how long we think we have with those but it's
some amount of time it's going to go away at some point,
but how do we
But how do we make environmental sustainability
sustainable?
sustainable for everybody?
I think you know you
if you've been here all day, you've heard a lot about the
concerns that.
concerns that uh, many of us have about and we have we
haven't even gotten to the jobs really yet. But um, I I
think jobs are a big part of this um conversation.
think jobs are a big part of this, um conversation. Um,
you know, do we have
case studies from other places States or
Case studies from other places States or other places
within Illinois where decarbonization has happened.
within Illinois where decarbonization has happened that you
know takes a takes a really thought.
know takes a takes a really thoughtful approach to how we
retrain people.
retrain people for jobs of the future for the future of
energy. Can you opine about that since we that's really the
only question that I have for for the the group of you.
here.
There are there are definitely case studies across the
world.
world, but they're they're pretty limited thus far. Um, you
know, Maine for example has um been working on home
electrification.
electrification and they have a great story to tell about
um mobilizing heat pump techn.
um mobilizing heat pump technology in Maine, which I think
is cold. I think it might be colder than here. Um,
you know now
You know now means different a lot in a lot of those cases
what was being?
what was being replaced was, uh, propane or Heating?
what was being replaced was, uh, propane or heating oil?
We don't have to deal with too much heating oil.
We don't have to deal with too much heating oil here in
Chicago. And so I think that is I think that's what's kind
of scary about this issue.
of scary about this issue is
I don't want to speak.
I don't want to speak out of turn but I I don't have all
the answers. I don't have all.
the answers. I don't have all the answers, but we need to
work figure out.
work figure out some answers and we're going this is going
to be an iterative.
to be an iterative process. We're not going to solve all
our problems by passing Cabo, but we need to get started.
and Cabo is a way to start that.
and Cabo is a way to start that conversation and kind of
force the issue and force us to actually sit down and
Hammer these issues out.
Hammer these issues out and Earnest. Um, I think I just
made that.
made that point I make it again. Um, but I
I think we're we're trying some some cool things.
the climate and Equitable jobs Act
The climate and Equitable jobs. Act contained a lot of
Provisions aimed at um preserving jobs.
Provisions aimed at um, preserving jobs in um transition
communities places.
communities places where there are going to be
transitioning away from fossil fuels which had been a big
source of jobs in those areas.
source of jobs in those areas getting um Equitable Conte.
contractors online able to do this work. Um, but you know,
we're still we're still figuring this out when I first
started at Cub 23 years ago, I figured okay cool. We're
going to pass a big law and we're going to fix it and then
Cubs going to go out of business and I
To find another job and that was really silly of me. Like
we're never going to be finished figuring.
we're never going to be finished figuring it out.
Technologies are always going to be changing. Um,
Priorities are going to be changing.
And we need to adapt.
we can't just cling to the old way of doing things or
We can't just cling to the old way of doing things or the
status quo because that's the easiest way to do it.
I um if I can.
I um if I can tag on to your your big question there.
I um if I can tag on to your your big question there, uh
older woman lie, um, I
older woman lie. Um, I kind of was looking for maybe some
similar things to see if Sandra you had anything to offer
because I was thinking about the many different places that
you mentioned.
you mentioned, uh that slipstream worked, um, and knowing
that there was some kind of similar to essay. Um,
that there was some kind of similar to sa um some big
legislation in Massachusetts. I think you mentioned you
work so wondering if you've got um, uh any anything to
offer to older women least question, especially around
Workforce and labor and what you're seeing in the places
where slipstream operates,
Thank you madam, chair and alderman.
Thank you madam, chair and Alderman lie. Um, I think a great
case study is AJ, right?
case study is AJ right here. So I would encourage you to
have a chat with him.
have a chat with him and from my perspective.
I think what we are seeing is
this conversation around around Workforce is very new.
um
Um for substream perspective, we've been focused on the
technology.
technology and researching the technology to make sure that
it works in cold climates and climates like Chicago.
it works in cold climates and climates like Chicago and now
we're talking about this Gap that we have in actually
having work.
having workers do the weatherization and installing the
heat pump.
heat pumps and what we are at least the conversation that
would like to have and then continuing to have is looking
at our existing Workforce. We have HVAC installers right
now that install furnaces and air conditioners. They're
ready.
ready and prepared we can prepare them to
ready and prepared. We can prepare them to install heat
pumps. So I would encourage us to look at our existing
Workforce and contractors.
Workforce and contractors and think about how we can
upscale and provide the skills to help them.
Be part of this nuclear energy economy. I think that's a
really easy.
really easy step for us to do because it's an existing
Workforce.
Workforce and contractor pool that we can take advantage of
now.
now organizations like elevate.
that ran the electrification home electrification
That ran the electrification home electrification pilot
here in Chicago. We had some real exper.
here in Chicago. We had some real experience doing that
work and tapping into existing.
work and tapping into existing contractors to help them
learn how to install
Learn how to install heat pumps and heat pump water
heaters, and I think that's
heaters. And I think that's the spot that we're sitting in
now in Massachusetts. We are running, um a couple of
now in Massachusetts. We are running, um, a couple of
electrification Pilots with Community Based organiz.
electrification Pilots with Community Based organizations
there and are currently going through a process.
there and are currently going through a process to assess
their diverse contractor.
their diverse contractor pool to see where their skill sets
lie and the next
lie, and the next step will be having a conversation about
how do we up?
how do we upskill them? What training can be provide them
and I
And I think it's an incremental lift. It's not a big 1 and
I think that's absolutely doable the other.
I've been a part of uh over the last couple of years is
talking about our young people our students in high school.
And how do we activate them and get them?
And how do we activate them and get them interested in this
clean energy Workforce econom?
clean energy Workforce economy and what?
We discovered this is a gap. I think it's easy to fill is
our kids don't.
our kids don't really know what those jobs look like. They
don't.
don't they can't see themselves in it yet because they
haven't actually had the exposure so developing programs
like career fair in a box energy career fair in a box.
like career fair in a box energy career fair in a box to
show our children and our young people what those jobs look
like and get them excited about that and help them
understand that they may not have to spend.
understand that they may not have to spend, you know, 4
years and a lot of money.
years and a lot of money to get a degree that these jobs
are things that they can do.
are things that they can do right now with a very minimal,
um amount of Education.
um amount of education and those are the 2 things. I think
I'd like to share today. Thank you for asking that
question.
I think that's all I had I I
I think that's all I had. I appreciate you. Just helping to
think through some of that. I I just this is a real big
challenge, right? We we all.
challenge, right? We we all know we've got to we
to your point earlier. Um, we can't not take action. Um, I
I think right now we're we're all sorting our way through.
You know, what does the real thoughtful?
You know, what does the real thoughtful plan look like, um,
Cabo as the as a first step potentially and like what comes
next and I think you know for me at least bigger scary part
is the what's next.
Um because that's going to impact the the most number of
people.
people at the end of the day.
Thank you madam chair. Thank you. So.
Thank you madam chair. Thank you so much ottoman Lopez.
Thank you. Thank you chairman. I just have 1 quick
question.
Thank you. Thank you chairman. I just have 1 quick question
for the representative from cub.
So
having heard that
Ahmed said that their grid is basically designed for the
seasons.
seasons right be used in the summer.
uh, not as much in the winter because
Uh, not as much in the winter because that's traditionally
When people's gas takes over.
um
if they were
too eventually see some sort of.
uh electrification that requires them to be a a 12-month
service
Um, where does cub?
Um, where does KUB stand on how they would be providing
that addition?
that additional electricity to meet those goals?
Yeah, that's a great question. And this is something that
that that concerns.
that that concerns me, um, you know kmed has
I
comment customers have enjoyed far fewer.
power outages over the years
Power outages over the years since grid modernization. Um
commenced so in Illinois a bill passed several years ago
that allowed our electric utilities to perform big.
that allowed our electric utilities to perform big upgrades
to the grid was a bill that cub.
to the grid was a bill that Cub actually opposed.
so
So that bill actually I think was was pretty effective. Um,
you know, when when Scott's up here talking about how good
their service quality is. I'm thinking like a darn.
their service quality is, I'm thinking like a darn well
better because we paid for it, you know, but but and we
paid for it and it is it is it is working. Um,
I we might have.
I we might have we can quibble over whether we paid too much
for it.
Cabo ComEd I feel confident can
Can pick up what Cabo lays down?
can pick up what Cabo lays down. I think ComEd is
absolutely ready to take on.
absolutely ready to take on that winter load at the rate.
absolutely ready to take on that winter load at the rate at
which Cabo will introduce more.
which Cabo will introduce more winter demand for
electricity.
um
Um, we are in the middle of a big multi-year grid.
Um, we are in the middle of a big multi-year grid plan in
at the ICC right now.
at the ICC right now you may oh, I'm sorry. So give me so
the so like thinking more.
the so like thinking more long term not just for the as you
said the teeny tiny.
said the teeny tiny First Step, but we know this is the 1
of many steps. So at some point I think the goal is to
retrofit and have many more buildings to be electr.
retrofit and have many more buildings to be electrified.
It's going to be a Non-Stop Balancing Act How would
Where does Cubs?
Where does Cubs see them creating the additional capacity
based on?
based on the available energy producing?
based on the available energy producing mechanisms that are
in place right now?
And does that include Cub supporting EXP?
And does that include Cub supporting expanded nuclear
options? Because oh, okay. What is that? Got it I get you
you're talking about generation.
You're talking about generation. Yes. Got it. Thank you. Me
too, man. Yes. Yes. Yes.
me too, man. Yes. Yes. Yes so so comment doesn't own
generation, right? So come
generation, right? So ComEd owns the distribution, but
you're talking about actually like who's producing the
juice and is there going to be enough juice? Yeah, that's
an issue. We um, I have a colleague.
an issue. We um, I have a colleague who's full-time job is
to represent consumer is is interests at pjm which is the
regional transmission.
organization that serves comed's territ
Organization that serves Keds territory there's some
problems at pjm right now. Um, we have a really backed up
intercon.
interconnection queue. We actually have enough.
interconnection queue. We actually have enough generation
on Deck to meet electrification requirements.
on Deck to meet electrification requirements, but it's
being held up at the uh at the
Regional level by these Regional transmission organizations
now furk has been coming out and FK is going to be coming
out.
to be coming out with another or rule it it gets it gets
pretty esoteric but
We have seen over the years.
we have seen over the years that we can do a lot at the
city level we can do a lot of the state level. Um, but we
also need to be looking at the region.
also need to be looking at the regional level and I can
just assure you that I am looking at the regional.
just assure you that I am looking at the regional level
we're working on it. We're actually working with the
electric generators or working with distrib.
electric generators or working with distribution utilities.
We're finding alliances where we can to make sure that the
grid operators are ready to get that.
grid operators are ready to get that additional generation
online to meet these needs because that is going to be
crucial. Absolutely. Um,
crucial absolutely. Um, but also, you know at the at the
local level. Sorry, I probably shouldn't I shouldn't uh
pass up the opportunity to just
up the opportunity to just mentioned distributed generation
as well. I mean we have we are connected to the grid but we
also have
we also have great opportunities here locally for renew.
kind of on-site and state legislation has gone a long way
to
making distributed generation or things like
Making distributed generation or things like rooftop solar
much more accessible for folks around.
much more accessible for folks around Illinois, and that's
why you've seen over the past several years.
why you've seen over the past several years a big boom in
rooftop solar. You're starting to see it a lot more.
although definitely not enough. Um now we're talking about
ways to encourage.
ways to encourage storage energy storage so that if we're
creating Surplus electricity when the sun is shining we can
store that.
store that and use it. Um later on when the sun stops
Shining
shining so it's on on a lot of different levels like
shining. So it's on on a lot of different levels like local
levels just through distributed generation.
levels just through distributed generation and rooftop
solar things like that, but also at the regional level, I'm
so excited to tell everyone here that you should be aware
of the fact that pjm exist.
of the fact that pjm exists in that what they're doing is
really important.
Thank you. So I think I just want to add chairman that you
know, my concern is that
you know as we hear about.
you know as we hear about these bottlenecks.
at different levels
Um, those are the same kind of bottlenecks.
um, those are the same kind of bottlenecks that stopped
work with people's gas to be able to fully allow for the
modernization.
modernization and the eventual delivery of hydrogen and
other
energy, neg Greenhouse
energy, neg greenhouse gas negative options to our city. So
I think that we that's something that we need to all be
mindful of as well as we're having this conversation.
mindful of as well as we're having this conversation seeing
that, you know, we want to be able to make sure that you
know, we have heard comment on numerous occasions say that
it will take decades to be ready for full.
it will take decades to be ready for full electrification.
So we want to to
I think we should keep that in mind of where those
bottlenecks.
bottlenecks are. Um, and who's in support or not support.
our efforts there in thank you. Thank you.
Alderman Vegas, I'll be real quick.
Thank you. Um
Sarah Wright from cup
Yeah. Hi Sarah. How you doing? Um you talked about? Um,
some of the dangerous gases. Can you?
some of the dangerous gases. Can you can you let elaborate
a little bit more? What?
a little bit more? What are some of these dangerous gases
that you keep mentioning?
that you keep mentioning Benzene and and and why is it
produced and and stuff like that? Yeah. So combusting
combusting natural gas in the home.
combusting natural gas in the home emits a lot of poll.
pollutants into the home. So there are um,
pollutants into the home. So there are um nitrous oxides
been
Benzene particulate matter that has been shown and I'm not
the scientists. We were supposed to have a doctor on the
panel that's got she's here in spirit to talk.
panel that's got she's here in spirit to talk about the
health effects of burning gas in the home. Um, which seen
multiple studies now,
multiple studies now if you start researching it it gets a
little scary when you start seeing how much of this is
emitted into the atmosphere inside the home. Um, and it
spread around the home as well like benzene.
spread around the home as well like Benzene. It's not just
like right over your burner.
um, there's uh Benzene detector that has shown that
Um, there's uh Benzene detector that has shown that I've
seen studies showing that it's getting into people.
bedrooms and stuff after just cooking in the kitchen.
gotcha. Um, and um,
and the reason why it's going
And the reason why it's going all over the place like your
stated, is that because the lack of ventilation?
I think definitely.
I think definitely ventilation is a problem. You know, I
mean, I think if we it
from what I've read
it's impossible to prevent.
at with
At with the current technology, and apparently they've been
working.
working on this technology for at least 50 years because
the the the AGA um, uh research
the the the AGA, um, uh research Wing was looking into it
and 1974.
and 1974 and we still have this situation today.
That you can't that that is not being preventing.
prevented. This is happening. So perhaps if you have
a if you have all your windows open or something.
perhaps maybe you just blow it out into the outdoors, but
what we're seeing on the ground.
is that these pollutants are emitted into the
Is that these pollutants are emitted into the home?
Where they can get sucked up.
where they can get sucked up into our lungs so then um,
the restaurants that util
The restaurants that utilize stoves 14 to 16 hours a day.
Um, are they subjecting?
Their employees to Benzene as well as the consum.
managers and all that stuff. That's my understanding
understanding.
understanding so
So then why does why why does Cabo?
So then why does why why does cabo um not include.
restaurants
Good question.
I'll also um, maybe chime in as a reminder. I think 1 of
the differences, uh, and we heard from uh managing Deputy.
Um,
Um commissioner Grant olrich is that we require in the city
of Chicago, um strong Hood vent.
of Chicago, um strong Hood ventilation systems for
commercial kitchens and restaurants.
commercial kitchens and restaurants that ventilate um to
the outdoors and that's a key piece. I know I've got a
ventilation Hood above my range, but it it's most in most
Apartments.
apartments condos things like that or even single family
homes it
homes. It doesn't vent to the outside. Um, and so again,
the ventilation piece is pretty key I think for
the ventilation piece is pretty key. I think for most
emissions we're thinking about in the household know it's
it's funny you say that because because I'm thinking of
this Cobble
this Cabo ordinance, maybe have a ventilation ordinance
that requires, you know, what you could work you should
work on that you should work on that. So it's instead of
Trying to eliminate a reliable. It wouldn't address our
overall emissions.
Okay. All right. Um, so maybe I'll take a look at the
ventilation ordinance. Maybe we can put this to bed. Um
so, um
How is Cub? How is Cub funded?
I was Cub. How were you guys funded? Uh primarily?
I was Cub. How were you guys funded, uh, primarily through
individual membership contrib?
individual membership contributions. We do get some grant
funding to do.
funding to do mostly consumer education and Outreach.
funding to do mostly consumer education and Outreach and to
um, yeah, mostly consumer education Outreach put out guides
things like that. Um, I know that in in in 2020 there was
a story about
uh Cub, uh receiving a ComEd funded Foundation
Uh Cub, uh receiving a ComEd funded Foundation money by
11.5 million.
you
You guys still received that those types of Grants. Oh this
was.
this was uh, the Illinois science and energy Innovation
fund. Um, nope.
Nope. Don't that that that that funds um expired?
Nope. Don't that that that that funds um expired it's
sunset by Statute at the end of 2022.
sunset by Statute at the end of 2022 and that was actually
an independent Foundation.
an independent Foundation that was funded by all of the UT.
utilities. Um, and it was run by a board.
Independent of the utilities. But yeah that is that is that
is over gotcha and then my last question as a consumer
Advocate, um
Do you have a what are your concerns about?
do you have a what are your concerns about eliminating
competition and just
utilizing 1 energy source, where at that point you would
have 1 Energy company.
have 1 Energy company that would dictate what the prices to
the consumers.
Yeah, that's why we need to keep an eye on them.
For sure. Yeah, I I I listen no.
For sure. Yeah, I I I listen No, but but I'll say this if
you you won't have to look far if you got 1 Monee, so yeah,
you won't have to look too far because you'll have 1
utility. Yeah, so actually part of the big chunk of the
state is covered by a dual fuel utility. So amaran
Illinois is both Gas and Electric you have that situation
you know dealing with 1 entity. Um, but yeah, I think that
this isn't about just giving Ked a blank check and throwing
all of our eggs into a ComEd basket. Uh, we're going like I
said, we are in the midst of the ICC proceeding on their
multi-year grid plan where we are arguing that they don't
need as much money as they're asking for uh, and that's
going to be an ongoing thing. I like the idea of consumer
choice for sure, but I've been working
in this industry for so long that I've seen that consumer
Choice isn't worth anything if the choice is all stink.
You know look at the Alternative Energy Supply Market, I'm
sure everyone.
sure everyone here has gotten somebody knocking on their
door saying that.
door saying that this and that and they've ended up, you
know people who signed.
know people who signed up often end up paying lots more and
so I've fielded criticism before about being anti-choice.
like I'm not anti-choice, but I'm anti-b bad choices.
like I'm not anti-choice, but I'm anti bad choices.
Okay, thank.
Okay. Thank you madam chair.
Thank you.
Um, I want to thank our guests.
Um, I want to thank our guests for your comment for your
patience as I mentioned for your stamina. Um, certainly I I
know several.
know several members wanted to connect with you for for
different reasons afterwards and certainly, um, if
who um had to depart earlier or if other colleagues, um, uh
want to access or follow up with questions, we'll make sure
they have contact information.
they have contact information for you.
Um, so this concludes the fourth, uh segment of today's
hearing
and uh, we're uh a ready to hear from our fifth segment our
guest from labor. So let's do our switch out.
refill your water bottles
Jason put the tack in your shoe.
Jason you didn't hear me. I said put the tack in your shoe,
right? You got the tack in your shoe. You ready?
Yeah, that would.
Yeah, that would I wouldn't blame you brother. I wouldn't
blame you.
All right.
All right, welcome back everybody.
um, I want to thank um, I want to thank
Um, I want to thank um, I want to thank my committee staff.
I want to thank our IG a team.
I want to thank our IG a team and I want to thank our
Council Services team for being Champions today on this
long day.
Um, so thank you all for being here.
and we're going to commence with our testimony from our
partners in labor.
and so, um each in turn if you uh
And so, um each in turn if you uh want to make sure those
mics are are working, uh before
mics are are working. Uh, before you there you go. There we
go. Um,
and so I think first we're starting off, uh with Mark pulos
from local 15.
from local 150.
Good evening madam.
Good evening, Madam chair, uh City Council Members staff.
members of the public. My name is Mark pus, I'm
representing the international Union of operating engineers
local.
local 150. We represent nearly 25,000.
local 150. We represent nearly 25,000 members in and around
the Chicago land area as well as thousands of contractors.
that ensure a reliable and safe energy grid and diverse
energy sources in the city of Chicago as well as the state
of Illinois. Uh, I just want to start by addressing a
couple things that came up, uh throughout the last 7 hours,
uh first, um, I I would like to just
uh first um, I I would like to just address there was a
comparison at 1 Point, uh between the accelerated main
replacement program at NY.
replacement program at nyore and the program that's been
happening in the city of Chicago.
happening in the city of Chicago with wack energy or
people's gas. Um, you know, I started out my career before
I went to law school.
proving up the case for uh, the replacement of the main, uh,
programs. Uh, I ran a leak detection crew for both.
people's guests as well as door, uh some
people's guests as well as door. Uh some boy now. It's 25
years ago. Uh, uh, uh,
years ago, uh, uh, uh and uh walked around with these fuel
ionization packs and sniffed for gas.
ionization packs and sniffed for gas and did percentage of
gas wrote reports. Um, they are vastly different networks
of gas service. Um nyor. I have no doubt, uh could have
gotten the money and done the accelerated man replacement
program.
program in a 10 year period uh, but when you're talking
about the city of Chicago, um, and you're talking about
digging in and around um structures and things that aren't
uh, well identified aren't well mapped out, uh, Underground
caverns and tunnels and right the the like, uh, it is a
vastly uh different uh, different gas system as well.
vastly uh different uh, different gas system as well as um
working with the multiple City.
working with the multiple City departments within the city
of Chicago is very different.
of Chicago is very different than working with just a city
of Department of like Neighborville or Betavia or other
Suburban cities.
Suburban cities like that. So vastly different networks, so
I have
No doubt that uh, you know over time cost had had had.
skyrocketed. I have no doubt and and timelines had Skyrock.
skyrocketed, um, because uh, there was just so many unknown
things.
things and and literally we're changing a system and
digging up things in the city.
digging up things in the city of Chicago that were over a
hundred years old, uh a little different.
hundred years old, uh a little different than the Suburban
network. Uh, second thing that came up, uh,
network. Uh, second thing that came up, uh in some of these
uh discussions today was
these uh discussions today was um a statement about uh, new
buildings and new techn.
new buildings and new technologies and there was a
statement I think by uh, chairwoman Haden about uh, the RNG
or hydrogen and that in these new buildings. Um,
or hydrogen and that in these new buildings, um, they could
choose to use um these new new Services. Maybe maybe it
wasn't you um in any
wasn't you, um, in any event that something came up to that
effect. Uh, and I guess the point is is um, if we don't
bring the INF
bring the infrastructure to new buildings, and we do have
new emerging Technologies in the gas industry, um, they'll
be foreclosed from using it because we didn't actually put
the infrastructure. Uh, if
the infrastructure, uh, if we were to pass Cabo and then
the third thing, uh, I think um, uh, uh, uh,
Alderman Vegas kind of touched on it, but it really goes to
this.
this like Monopoly effective rates and we are having a
conversation.
conversation about going at some point to a single.
conversation about going at some point to a single Source
provider, uh, that being the electrical utility for all
things residential.
things residential uh, and even long-term all things
commercial. Um, I think we've seen this in other Industries
and when we go to monop,
and when we go to a monopoly, um, it's not good typically
for uh for consumers. So, uh, just a couple things I wanted
to address first. Um, but I do also want to note that we
did.
All the other men, uh in the city of Chicago with what I
would call a comprehensive.
would call a comprehensive report, uh, it's entitled
balance a progress.
balance a progress assoc assessing the implications of the
uh, clean and affordable building ordinance. Um, so
hopefully everybody's got a copy of that and probably
haven't dove into the 2030 or some pages over the last 48
hours since we've submitted it, uh,
hours since we've submitted it. Uh, but after today happy
to ask questions, uh about that at a later time, um, we do
join uh with
join, uh with all the women Haden, uh and others, um that
we want to bright future, uh for future generations to come
and that includes taking steps to decarbonize. Um, how
we different different on our approach to dcarbon
we different different on our approach to decarbonization.
Uh, in fact Local 150 has been a leader in advocating.
Uh, in fact Local 150 has been a leader in advocating, uh
for things like offshore wind to bring transmission, uh to
the uh to the uh, uh to the Great Lakes,
the uh to the uh, uh to the great lakes and in the city of
Chicago we've been big Advocates of
Chicago, we've been big Advocates of network geothermal
that uh Cub was just discussing a little time.
that uh Cub was just discussing a little time ago.
Unfortunately, those are things that have not been able to
been uh passed uh in Springfield. Uh, and that is the steps
that need to be taken, uh, in order to get those types of
things to the city.
of Chicago, um Local 150 does Focus
Of Chicago, um Local 150 does focus on decarbonizing with a
plan.
rather than taking
Rather than taking steps to eliminate natural gas from new
construction.
construction, which is the most environmentally friendly
and energy efficient buildings in the city's Fleet. We
focus on recom.
focus on recommending weatherizing less efficient fleets
expand.
expanding electric charging stations expanding funding for
mass transit.
mass transit to name a few and we give a number of
recommendations in our report. We also need a plan that
focuses on grid reliability and safety economic
implications of Dakar.
implications of decarbonizing and takes into account
emerging techn.
emerging Technologies as it relates to grid reliability and
safety.
safety Illinois's diverse Energy Mix is currently
strain a sudden shift could jeopardize the stability and
safety of our power. Grid see just set amb.
safety of our power grid see just set ambitious goals, but
we must balance that with the reality of our current.
we must balance that with the reality of our current
infrastructure capabilities the transition to clean energy
while environmentally commendable comes with sign.
while environmentally commendable comes with significant
costs consumers costs are rising.
costs consumers costs are rising and the affordability of
natural gas is a heating Source cannot be overlooked. We
must consider the financial burden on.
must consider the financial burden on consumers, especially
in light of the escalating.
electricity costs emerging Technologies present new
opportunities
Opportunities distributed energy resources micro grids for
instance can enhance grid reliability further?
instance can enhance grid reliability further the inflation
reduction Act of 2022 off.
reduction Act of 2022 offers incentives for clean energy
initiatives, which could help.
initiatives, which could help offset some of the costs
associated with the transition.
associated with the transition while we appreciate the
older woman's vision for a renewable.
older woman's vision for a renewable future. It's
imperative to approach this transition thoughtfully. We
need to ensure energy reliability and safety.
need to ensure energy reliability and safety consider the
economic impact on consumers.
And integrate emerging Technologies, efficiently we have
offered.
offered in our report a number of recommendations that
emphasize the
emphasized the need for a collaborative approach to assure
Ensure.
ensure great reliability and address climate change.
I would also like to take just a moment to pause and point.
out that when the country decided.
that the electric
That the electric grid was based on Coal fire power plants.
We didn't just cut down the power lines. We invested.
invested in the electric grid and its future.
invested in the electric grid and its future we invested in
things like research and development the federal government
the city the state of Illinois in this country.
the city the state of Illinois in this country put billions
of dollars of investment into R&D for the electrical
utilities. However, when it comes to a time when we start
questioning the efficacy of natural gas we say tear up the
pipelines don't invest with them like we did the electrical
utilities. I just don't think that's fair. You heard today
people's gas talking about emerging Technologies like Hydro
hydrogen or RNG, right? These are things they're putting
themselves, but when they take these things to the ICC
they did most recently in December they were knocked down.
because they believe they're going to charge consumers too
much money.
much money, so there has to be some more Global approach.
much money. So there has to be some more Global approach to
what the city council is trying to take today and I think
it's a much broader, uh coalition.
uh with state
Uh with State Partners as well. I'll close with this.
in favor of an all-electric household does not.
in favor of an all-electric household does not need an
ordinance to achieve that goal. I'll repeat that 1 more
time.
anyone
or any anyone in favor of an all-electric household does
not need an ordinance to achieve that goal. They can do
that today anyone.
that today. Anyone that chooses not to subject their child
to an alleged.
to an alleged toxin caused by burning natural gas can
choose not to subject to child to any toxins.
choose not to subject to child to any toxins of burning
natural gas. There is no ordinance that is needed.
natural gas. There is no ordinance that is needed today in
order to stop that. In fact, if I were to poll every all
their person who is in favor of the Cabo ordinance and
every person in the audience audience that was cheering for
Cabo and asked them if they live in an all electric
household my guess is
household. My guess is very few would answer the question.
Yes.
but the real
But the real question is why right? Why have the zealous
Advocates of doing away with?
Advocates of doing away with natural gas? They themselves
have not turned to all electric.
have not turned to all electric and I can tell you there's
a multitude of factors.
a multitude of factors its cost its safety, its
reliability.
whatever reason for themselves the fact of the matter.
the matter is is we are now going to subject everyone else
who hasn't even chosen this path to go down that same
that others have chosen we call on policymakers.
that others have chosen we call on policy makers utilities
researchers and labor to work together to achieve achieve a
balance of thoughtful transition.
Energy, and we ask you to oppose the Cabo. Thank you.
Thank you for your comments mark.
Thank you for your comments Mark. Uh next we have uh, James
with local 130 plumbers. Good evening.
chairwoman Haden Vice chair kutson and members of the
committee and Alderman you're a little closer to move that
you can move the mic you can move.
you can move the mic. You can move a closer to you.
All right.
My name is James M major. I'm here to rep rep.
My name is James M major. I'm here to rep represent the
hardworking members of local.
hardworking members of local 130 plumbers.
and
And as a 65-year resident of this.
And as a 65-year resident of this great City.
Plumbers Local 130 has 5,900 members.
Plumbers Local 130 has 5,900 members of which 9777 live in
the neighborhoods across Chicago hundreds more.
the neighborhoods across Chicago hundreds more come to work
in the city to ensure safe.
in the city to ensure safe and reliable natural gas is
brought into homes.
brought into homes and businesses I come before you today.
with major concerns about the proposed.
with major concerns about the proposed gas ban ordinance as
it puts my mem.
it puts my members livelihoods at risk prevent.
puts my members livelihoods at risk prevents necessary
investments in our critical.
investments in our critical infrastructure and will drive
up the cost.
up the cost of both new and maintaining the exist.
up the cost of both new and maintaining the existing gas
infrastructure relied on
in Chicago for over a hundred
In Chicago for over a hundred years well over a hundred
years I do date back.
And I've seen gas lights on the wall.
And I've seen gas lights on the walls in homes. I've seen.
gas lights hanging on the chandeliers.
All right, and
somebody don't think I'm missing something gas refriger.
refrigerators.
So there was many.
So there was many gas appliances in homes way back.
So there was many gas appliances in homes way back and none
can and a lot.
can and a lot, uh more natural gas clean burning natural
gas.
gas was burnt 100 years ago in homes.
Today homes have uh are EX.
Today homes have uh air exchanges per hour. So I don't
think it's as critical.
think it's as critical as it was for over 100 years ago
Greg rely.
Greg reliability.
We are all.
We are all experienced in bad ice and windstorm.
We are all experienced in bad ice and wind storms or in
Somers.
Somers Reigns tearing through the neighborhoods and taking.
our power with it. ComEd has failed to make the necessary
upgrades and grid.
upgrades and grid hardening on our electrical grid.
ensure that power and heat is reliable for our families and
business.
businesses when these storms appear.
businesses. When these storms appear I could raise my hand
and say my power my gas was never out in a home. I
and say my power my gas was never out in a home I lived in
for 65 years.
for 65 years never once was the gas off.
Anybody else could?
anybody else could raise their hand and say that about uh,
the electrical grid and the electrical power to their
house. I don't think anybody in this room exists to say
that
when a polar voice
when a polar vortex exists visits us every
When a polar vortex exists visits us every winter, it is
natural gas that keeps elderly.
natural gas that keeps elderly residents young families
safe and warm. It is natural gas that provides the backup
power to essential institutions like health.
power to essential institutions like health care and
schools this ordinance add.
schools this ordinance admits that these institutions need
to rely.
to Reliable reliability of natural gas.
to Reliable reliability of natural gas and therefore
exempts them from the gas pan Banning natural gas will put
our neighborhoods Heating and power at risk of falling tree
limbs.
gasp
gas pan also guarantees ComEd would have a monopoly over
our energy and heating systems.
when proponents talk about cost savings that comes from
When proponents talk about cost savings that comes from
electrical transition. They are not.
electrical transition. They are not factoring in this
Monopoly.
Monopoly giving Commonwealth Edison sole.
Monopoly giving Commonwealth Edison sole ability to Price
power and energy.
power and energy in Chicago is not looking after the rez.
residents and businesses ability to afford.
residents and businesses ability to afford to live in our
city.
Jabs local 130 plumbers
have had members in the natural gas industry.
have had members in the natural gas industry for over a
hundred years and with it.
a steady stream of work that
A steady stream of work that ensures our members have
Union.
benefits salaries a central industry.
benefits salaries essential industry training.
by speaking to
By speaking to ban gas.
Chicago you are putting those union jobs benefits pensions
and Investments at risk. We rely on this work to ensure our
members can provide for their
Our members can provide for their families save for
retirement.
retirement and help boost the local economy by spending
their hard-earned dollars with a gas pan. You are pushing
more and more.
more and more work into non-union sector.
with no substantial guarantee similar wages
With no substantial guarantee similar wages and benefits
will exist for our members.
will exist for our members or other union workers safety.
Natural gas has been safe and reliable.
for our families and businesses for well over a century by
shrinking the number of future rate payers, which was
discussed earlier and investments in crit.
discussed earlier and investments in critical but aging
infrastructure. We will put our whole city at risk.
infrastructure. We will put our whole city at risk a gas
span several sever.
span several severely diminishes the investment people's
gas.
gas makes in Chicago as we
We have already seen follow.
We have already seen following December, Illinois Commerce
Commission rate cut.
Commission rate cuts.
gas leaks happen when we
Gas leaks happen when we neglect necessary maintenance and
upgrades.
And fail to make critical investment.
and fail to make critical Investments that allow us for
continuous monitoring of our gas infrastructure.
this or
This ordinance does nothing to and sanitize.
This ordinance does nothing to and sanitize upgrades and
appliances which will allow.
appliances which will allow us for cleaner and more
efficient burning gas.
efficient burning gas nor does it even consider how
improve?
improvements in indoor air quality through better ventil?
ventilation, which I mentioned or filtration we have. We
were to try these alternative alternative provide.
Technologies. We would meet many of the straight.
Technologies. We would meet many of the Strategic goals of
or of this.
or of this ordinance at a fraction of the cost.
or of this ordinance at a fraction of the cost without
safety risk or job.
safety risk or job loss closing. Thank you for your time
and consideration. I am proud to represent.
and consideration. I am proud to represent union plumbers
who have helped kept.
who have helped kept the city safe warm affordable. We have
major concerns about this ordinance impacting our
membership and the ability for Working Families to
continue.
to surround survive in our city.
Thank you.
Thank you so much for your testimony.
next up we have Tim from
Next up we have Tim from local 597 the pipe fitters.
Good evening.
My name is Tim golly.
I am here to proudly represent the hard.
I am here to proudly represent the hard-working members of
local 597 pipe fitters.
We have 68.
We have 689 active numbers and over 2,000 members.
We have 689 active numbers and over 2,000 members who live
in the neighborhoods of Chicago.
hundreds more work in the city
Hundreds more work in the city and many of our Chicago
members work exclusively.
members work exclusively for the natural gas industry.
mostly as employees of contractors who do work for
Mostly as employees of contractors who do work for people's
gas.
today we have
219. Mehm
219 members laid off and the Gas Distribution field
Unfortunately expect that number to grow.
Unfortunately expect that number to grow as we continue to
see the Reaper.
see the repercussions.
from the Illinois
Commerce commission's ill-advised rate cut deck
Commerce commission's ill-advised rate cut decision
the Cabo ordinance
would only make this worse it is a
would only make this worse. It is a very difficult time for
members their families and our Union.
1 that we are not used to historically our local has near
Universal employment.
Universal employment, especially at the beginning of the
construction season.
typically local 59
Typically local 597 would have hundreds of members making
crit.
critical infrastructure upgrades to our aging.
critical infrastructure upgrades to our aging Century old
gas infrastruct.
gas infrastructure and many neighborhoods in Chicago.
Many of you on this committee have already seen.
Many of you on this committee have already seen the
benefits of this work.
What critical?
What critical gas that what critical Natural Gas?
Investments bring to your neighborhood?
while torn up streets and sidewalks
maybe temporary inconvenience when our crews are finished
working you was you have a safe.
working you was you have a safe reliable.
upgrade a gas Mains that deliver clean heat and Power
Upgrade a gas Mains that deliver clean heat and power even
when the electricity grid fails.
you get updated streets curbs and
You get updated streets curbs and sidewalks for residences
and businesses.
and businesses in these neighborhoods.
over the last few months
local 597 has had the opportunity to meet with many of you
and your colleagues to educate you on.
and your colleagues to educate you on our membership
industry and crit.
industry and critical work. We provide to keep Chicago.
industry and critical work. We provide to keep Chicago safe
warm and growing.
I come today to remind you of the major concerns local 597.
has with the proposed ordinance and the gas ban.
those include
much of Chicago's natural gas infrastructure is 100 years
old.
we
We have been part of the necessary effort to up.
We have been part of the necessary effort to update this
ticking Time Bomb over the last 10 years.
ticking Time Bomb over the last 10 years and we too think
people's gas is not done their part.
at managing the infrastructure and the upgrade
that doesn't change the fact that the infrastructure.
requires upgrades now.
this proposed
This proposed ordinance will prevent the necessary
replacement.
To ensure gas leaks don't happen.
gas ruptures
don't put
Don't put entire neighborhoods at risk and we don't lose.
Reliable Heating and power sources.
Reliable Heating and power sources guaranteed by natural
gas.
gas, especially in extreme winter months.
with the proposed ordinance you
With the proposed ordinance, you are guaranteeing the
middle and working class home.
middle and working class homeowners will see higher gas
bills.
when more rate payers are pulled off the
When more rate payers are pulled off the gas Network as new
construction goes all electric.
construction goes all electric the existing infrastructure.
maintenance and delivery costs will be borne.
maintenance and delivery costs will be borne out by an Ever
shrinking base of rate.
shrinking base of rate players.
mostly comprised of those who can't afford
uh to get off that and to have little to no assistance.
That means that Working Families and neighborhood.
That means that Working Families and neighborhoods like
Belmont Coeur.
Rogers Park Uptown Lawndale, Bronzeville will see higher
heating bill.
heating bills
by passing the gas ban.
You are creating a 2-tier system. We're working class.
residents pay more to maintain our gas.
residents pay more to maintain our gas Network.
even the sponsors of this Orden
Even the sponsors of this ordinance admit a natural gas
infrastructure.
infrastructure isn't going anywhere therefore needs.
infrastructure isn't going anywhere. Therefore needs to be
maintained.
additionally
even when the City offers to assist residents making the
transition to Electric it's not
transition to Electric, it's not enough.
There are over.
There are over 900,000 gas hookups in the city of Chicago
today.
by the city's own budgets
By the city's own budgets, it would cost hundreds of
billions of dollars.
billions of dollars that the city doesn't have.
billions of dollars that the city doesn't have and that the
state and federal government are not providing.
state and federal government are not providing the
transition everyone over to Electric.
the switch over to all electric is not set to be Equitable
for all residents.
You are ensuring.
You are ensuring that people's gas will not have the money
to make the necessary Investments.
to make the necessary Investments and replacing and
updating our aging natural gas infrastructure.
updating. Our aging natural gas infrastructure putting our
communities at risk.
and when the natural gas work isn't
And when the natural gas work isn't being done in our
yards.
the streets curbs and sidewalk up
The streets curves and sidewalk upgrades are also being
ignored.
the proposed gas ban will guarantee
that the equity investment commitments.
that the equity investment commitments this Council
Administration has Pro.
Administration has provide prioritized will not be borne
out equ.
out Equity across the city.
It threatens.
It threatens hundreds of unionized workers livelihoods.
increases the cost for residents and businesses.
increases the cost for residents and businesses and will
drive out and essential infrastructure Investments.
neighborhoods that need and deserve it.
It puts our aging Natural Gas.
It puts our aging natural gas Network at risk with our
families businesses and communities.
Local 597 are proud of the work.
local 597 are proud of the work that they do to keep Chicago
safe and the
Chicago safe and the critical upgrades to our
neighborhoods.
but with the recent regulatory decisions and a proposed
ordinance, our members livelihoods are on the chopping
block and our City's INF.
block, and our City's infrastructure is at risk. Thank you.
Thank you so much for your testimony Tim. Um, we'll now
hear from Jason from local.
hear from Jason from local 18007 gas workers.
And joining Jason in the box is uh boxes.
And joining Jason in the box is uh boxes, uh, Sean also
from 18007. Hey,
Thank you, uh chair.
Thank you, uh chairman Manhattan.
Um
I must say that um, so glad that you did not do a uh,
I must say that I'm so glad that you did not do a uh pause
and decide to continue with the proceedings. I've been up
since 2:30 this morning.
since 2:30 this morning, so
um
you know, um, I've heard a lot of things today and uh just
seems like the most important and the uh, most effective.
ones, um in this conversation,
ones, um in this conversation are the last ones to speak.
and um
you know, I I do have
You know, I I do have a some things here. I would like to
talk about but a lot of things have already been covered.
I've been listening to a lot of things that
the opponents have said about
um, Natural Gas
Um natural gas and uh Benzene. I'm like what is benzene?
I'm starting to look up. What is Benzene and I find out
benzene.
Benzene is in everything. It's it's not natural gas that
creates Benzene alone.
Benzene is in your
hairspray your aerosols.
hairspray your aerosols deodorant. It's naturally.
hairspray your aerosols deodorant. It's naturally in in in
um in gasoline. So it's not to it's not fair to say that.
um in gasoline. So it's not to it's not fair to say that
natural gas is poison.
natural gas is poisoning or creating this.
Problem when it comes to respirator.
Problem when it comes to respiratory.
conditions
I've said it before.
I had childhood asthma.
and
um working for people's gas for 32 years.
I've never had a asthma attack.
I've never had a asthma attack due to Natural Gas.
I will be honest with you.
mice have
you know, they're droppings can create.
this thing called
uh, the ha virus
I mean, you know, it'll be honest with you the Cockroaches.
They can create respiratory condition.
They can create respiratory conditions.
And so to just say that a lot.
And so to just say that a lot of times the natural gas.
And so to just say that a lot of times that natural gas is
the proponent.
of all these ill
Of all these illnesses that's not fair.
and
And I I wanted to talk to those people that were saying
that but they all.
that but they all left. So hopefully they'll be able to see
this.
this because I'm speaking from my heart right now.
You know.
I'm here with my business manager Sean Gorge.
fellow council members and citizens of the city
Fellow council members and citizens of the city of Chicago.
My name is Jason Carter. I'm president of gas Workers Union
Local 1800.
Local 18 007
part of the utility Workers Union of America
I've been employed with people's.
I've been employed with people's gas for 32 years and in
Union leadership.
Union leadership since 2008.
I like to.
I like to thank the committee for allowing me to speak.
local 18007 is the
Local 18007 is the sole in-house Union for people's gas.
where sharp professionally minded and skilled people for
over 95.
over 95 years. We have kept Chicago warm and safe.
delivering natural gas to homes and business.
delivering natural gas to homes and businesses across the
city.
We are.
We are a diverse group of nearly 1,000 hourly employ.
We are a diverse group of nearly 1,000 hourly employees.
with 80% people of color
with 30% Vetter
with 30% veterans in our ranks.
over half of us call Chicago home where we serve our
communities not just as gas workers and customer care
Representatives, but also as fellow customers.
in fact
In fact 95% of our Workforce live in the Chicago land.
in fact 95% of our Workforce live in the Chicago land area
the bottom line is
The bottom line is we look like the people we serve.
we're on the job all day every day.
We understand the science behind climate change. It's real.
and it's affecting our communities.
and that's why we support Chicago and
And that's why we support Chicago and Illinois in managing
their carbon footprint.
We take pride in what we do from install.
We take pride in what we do from installing gas meters and
repairing gas leaks and making sure our customers are
satisfied.
satisfied in every aspect.
We keep things running.
We keep things running smoothly. It's about Public Safety.
and protecting the environment for our communities.
However, let me explain why we oppose this.
However, let me explain why we oppose this, uh ordinance.
It affects those.
It affects those who can least afford it the most.
every new building that
Every new building that can't use gas means there are
fewer.
customers to share the overall cost of running.
customers to share the overall cost of running the system.
This will result.
This will result in higher bills for those who are already
exper.
experiencing financial hardship.
Therefore we cannot support a plan that puts this.
Therefore we cannot support a plan that puts this kind of
burden on our community.
There's No 1 solution there's
There's No 1 solution, there's not 1 solution to dcarbon
decarbonizing buildings we've talked about it. There's
there's been all type of discussion on that today
It's going to take a combination of all.
It's going to take a combination of all approaches.
That's why we believe that.
That's why we believe that investing in the improvements to
Chicago's.
Chicago's natural gas system is the smartest way to go.
We can make the system cleaner without putting.
We can make the system cleaner without putting the burden
on people and businesses to make.
on people and businesses to make expensive modifications to
cope with the challenges.
cope with the challenges of becoming all electric.
studies show converting a home from gas to electric can
cost anywhere from 50,000 to 75,000.
That's simply Out Of Reach for most Chicago families.
That's simply Out Of Reach for most Chicago families and
only a few will be able to afford these changes.
only a few will be able to afford these changes without
having to raise taxes to supplement the cost.
we
We can reduce emissions and keep our energy.
We can reduce emissions and keep our Energy System reliable
and and at the same time.
and and at the same time this is the most responsible
approach.
Climate change is serious.
But so is keeping the heat on in the winter.
talks of electrification
Talks of electrification at all may sound good in theory.
but the reality is is decades.
but the reality is is decades away.
Natural gas is rely.
Natural gas is reliable and it's proven. It keeps our
family safe.
family safe and warm even when the power goes out.
furthermore this plan will hurt employees and the people I
represent it takes years to become.
represent it takes years to become a skilled gas worker and
this ban will rip.
this ban will wipe out those good pain care careers.
Just take a moment and imagine the younger Jenner.
Just take a moment and imagine the younger generation who
could have built the future at people's.
could have built the future at people's gas. Think about
those that are working here now and the families who depend
on these jobs.
sacrificing good jobs for an uncertain Solution on energy
bills isn't the answer for Chicago.
Natural Gas jobs are local jobs. That means the money stays
here in Chicago.
here in Chicago helping our neighborhoods to thrive.
We need solutions that protect our environment.
We need solutions that protect our environment and our
communities not just the ones that tear them apart.
we
We have a saying that people's gas and that is to protect
life then property.
Public Safety is our number 1 priority. That's why I'm
concerned about this ordinance coming.
concerned about this ordinance coming up at a time when
people's gases only replace about 30% of its aging
Underground.
underground pipes.
The engineers are right.
These pipes are reaching the end of their.
These pipes are reaching the end of their lifespan.
our priority is keeping
Our priority is keeping everyone safe.
this this modernization program is about preventing
accidents before they happen.
We can't wait for a disaster to take to strike.
imagine
Imagine the Peace of Mind knowing your family is safe by
up.
upgrading our gas system we can attain the
upgrading our gas system. We can attain the goals we seek
and bring clean.
and bring clean and reliable energy that protects our
workers.
workers and keeps all Chicagoans safe.
That Chicago is worth the invest.
That Chicago is worth the investment. Thank you.
Thank you so much for your testimony Jason and that was
great. He didn't.
great. He didn't give me a preview yesterday. I got to see
these guys earlier this week and you should have given me a
preview. That's good. Um, I want to open up that since
testimony.
testimony is complete when I open up the floor to
questions. I see alderman viegas.
questions. I see Alderman viegas. Um, I'm gonna assume
everyone left here has a question. We'll start with ottoman
Vegas.
thank you madam, chair and before we
Thank you madam, chair and before we um end this final
panelist great job today.
panelist great job today on on putting assembling, uh, 5
panels of subject.
panels of subject matter experts around this issue. Thank
you for the work and your staff.
you for the work and your staff did to put this together.
um
this is for the president of uh
18007
Um, yeah, you know that Benzene thing.
Um, yeah, you know that Benzene thing has got me got me a
little mad, too.
little mad too because the reality is that
You know you could.
Disturbed a disturb Disturbed Earth and it would bring up
some Benzene. So it's it's all around us to your point. Um,
and if it's such a big deal like why haven't we declared a
public health issue on this to make sure that we're taking
care of the residents of Chicago, uh,
care of the residents of Chicago, uh now that we've uh,
Found this. Um
Found this, um this new um, uh this new issue.
Found this, um this new um, uh this new issue that's
plaguing, um, the residents of Chicago.
um
so I don't have a comment so much as
So I don't have a comment so much as I want to um, say
that.
the the hard work hardworking men and women
The the hard work hardworking men and women that represent
the trades have done a tremendous tremendous.
the trades have done a tremendous tremendous job.
In uh, putting forward a rely.
in uh, putting forward a reliable responsible energy, um
source for us and um when a 007 has done a tremendous job
in engaging Vetter.
in engaging Veterans as they put forward a program would in
part.
partnership with people gas people's gas. Um that has uh
been very intention.
been very intentional about uh, our returning veterans.
A lot of times we talk about returning citizens.
A lot of times we talk about returning citizens, which I I
support as well, but we got to remember the other
returning.
citizens which are returning veterans. And so just
commend the partnership that you have with people's gas.
commend the partnership that you have with people's gas and
really really taking care of putting forward.
really really taking care of putting forward a a mechanism
so that way these folks can can come
So that way these folks can can come back from serving our
country and uh and and get on a pathway to a career uh in
the trades.
um
to local uh 150. Um
Do you?
Do you guys have an estimate as to how many?
jobs, you would lose if uh, we were to
Jobs, you would lose if uh, we were to pass this ordinance.
Um,
uh, and then also subsequently get on the path to uh,
electric electrification for the entire.
electric electrification for the entire city over the next
couple few decades. Yeah, the the only hard and fast
numbers I have right now is you know, we lost
numbers I have right now is, you know, we lost directly 200
jobs, uh by the ICC decision to pause the accelerated man
replacement program for people.
replacement program for people's gas in total trades lost
about 2,000 jobs.
about 2,000 jobs on that pause. Um, you know, that was just
before Christmas and caused just after New Year's Day.
before Christmas and caused just after New Year's Day on
January 1st. Um, that's the only thing we've actually run
real jobs numbers on um, listen we
real jobs numbers on. Um, listen, we we would agree with a
lot of folks, uh in this country.
lot of folks, uh in this country that you know, we've done
a good job at transitioning, uh,
a good job at transitioning, uh sectors. I mean, we did
move from coal fire power plants to nuclear.
move from coal fire power plants to nuclear plants. We've
moved from nuclear plants, and we've moved to
moved from nuclear plants and we've moved to wind turbines.
We've moved from wind turbines to solar panels, right we
do.
do we do a pretty good job. Um, you know, we are the
Uh, we are the uh the second.
country, uh to train workers, uh next to
right? I mean, we run robust apprenticeship and training
program.
programs. Uh, we put people through a minimum of 144.
of classroom instruction every year and at least for the
operator 6,000 hours of on the job training, uh over an
apprenticeship.
apprenticeship, right? Uh, uh, and that's at no cost to an
individual that goes through that education. Um, so, you
know, we've done a pretty good job at running these types
of institutions in the past and I have no doubt we'll do a
great job in the future. Um, so for us it's not as much
about uh, are we going to lose a job? Are we going to gain
a job? What's the net loss net gain for us?
a job? What's the net loss net gain for us. It's really
right now about a more Global discussion about energy.
That's the big question and and and
That's the big question. And and and today we spent roughly
8 hours in a vacuum.
talking about what I would suggest is a first step to the
city of Chicago towards the extinction of natural.
city of Chicago towards the extinction of natural gas. I
get it. It's the first step. We're just talking about
construction today. We've got a bunch of exceptions.
Generations restaurants all these different things but
no mistake about it that this is Step 1 in the city of
Chicago to Extinction.
Chicago to extinction of natural gas. There has been a
a program started just recently in New York and DC it's
called hot and toxic right? It's for Malahide and meet
Benzene and meet whatever other toxins uh suggestion.
Suggested it's it's on the bus stops. It's on it's on
billboards.
billboards, right? This is a national campaign this
billboards, right? This is a national campaign. This is a
national takeover by the electrical industry and the
renewable energy.
renewable energy industry that being the wind and solar
industry.
industry a national takeover and Extinction of natural gas.
I will I will I will return to the Monopoly problem that is
going to exist I would suggest that cub.
going to exist. I would suggest that Cubs comments are not
going to age. Well, I would suggest that if Cub is the
Arbiter of good rates for rate payers.
Arbiter of good rates for rate payers pushing towards a
monopoly.
for residential and Commercial customers
For residential and Commercial customers is not going to be
good long term for customer.
good long term for customer rates that I think will age
very well.
so
to your point
To your point. We are a concerned about short-term jobs.
are a concerned about long-term jobs. We have always taken
care of our own we will continue to do that. Um, but at the
end of the day, are we going to have a
end of the day are we going to have a net gain or a net
loss of jobs? That's to be determined but
loss of jobs? That's to be determined, but I do think and I
do hope that the city of Chicago and city council broadens.
this conversation to be part of a larger conversation.
this conversation to be part of a larger conversation in
Springfield with the ICC Comm
Springfield with the ICC commission with the IPA with the
EPA with the governor's office.
EPA with the governor's office right that are having all
these conversations. I mean I started
these conversations. I mean, I started the week at a future
of gas proceeding with the ICC commission that suggests
over the next
18 months they are going to study the future of gas.
18 months they are going to study the future of gas yet.
We're here today in city council cons.
We're here today in city council considering the extinction
of natural gas starting with no.
of natural gas starting with no new gas at any new
construction. I mean, how much sense does that?
construction. I mean how much sense does that make as a
state from an energy or a
state from an energy at a global energy perspective so I
know that's a long answer to your very brief question, but
I think that's the bigger problem. The Crux of the problem
isn't just the jobs. It's about a bigger energy.
isn't just the jobs. It's about a bigger energy and I and I
appreciate that and that's why
I I didn't want to bring up. Um, so my concerns with cup.
um,
local 597 um
heat pumps right heat pumps. Uh, they're saying that
That they've come a long way. There's a 100,000 or
something
have the number was thousand or 100 thousand being.
installed and I think it's in Maine. I think they've out
there.
there go to 175,000. They've had such success.
there go to 175,000. They've had such successful. Thank
you. Yeah, I'm remembering all these numbers even after
these hours.
these hours guys. Yeah, we're we're brain food. So so he
pumps fail and lower.
pumps fail and lower ambient temperatures and they have to
be they have to be assisted by um,
You know by uh regenerated heat through boilers.
You know by uh regenerated heat through boilers, so it's not
just that. Yeah, right. So typically
not just that. Yeah, right so typically in
and and I'm not a specialist, but I do have
and and I'm not a specialist but I do have a guy here that
is uh typically once you get uh, once you get below 30
degrees,
degrees your heat pump is not near as efficient once you
get below.
get below 20 degrees.
and and below that it
it becomes very unofficial and you start to need another.
system to take over to proper.
system to take over to properly heat your home.
So if if you're in our area.
So if if you're in our area, um, I would suggest if you're
going to put a heat pump in.
going to put a heat pump in that you better put in another
system to go with it. Okay, perfect. That's the reality.
Thank you. And then um, this is my last question around the
this these groups that were assembled in the past were were
you were are you you in Union unions part of the know,
you're all Shake. Okay, cool. Well, I I think that this is
exactly why um, you know, we've introduced the resolution
calling for that working group so we can have all the
players at the table. Um, and uh, the subject matter
hearing is the first step.
hearing is the first step to trying to get to some place
where we can have these dialogue.
where we can have these dialogues because this is
important. Um, we support uh decarbonization. We want to do
it in a responsible way.
it in a responsible way, uh position ourselves as a as a
world-class.
world-class City, uh to get there, but at the same time we
want to take into um take into account.
uh and here from both sides so that way um, we can produce
the best ordinance possible taking a look at what the feds
are doing with the states are doing what the state of
Illinois is doing. Uh,
Illinois is doing, uh, and and partnering and making sure
we're getting a good final product. So thank you guys for
hanging in there. Thank everyone in the audience.
hanging in there, too. And thank you again Madam chair for
running a good meeting today. Absolutely. Thank you.
Alderman. Um,
Alderman Cohen said no Alderman Lopez Alderman Lee.
Hi.
Hi, um.
I didn't look behind me. Um, thank you so much for for your
patience and your perseverance today for for staying as
long as you have. I I'm not going to um, I'm not going to
ask exhaust.
ask exhaustive questions at this point. I I want to Echo.
ask exhaustive questions at this point. I I want to Echo my
colleague, uh Alderman vasas sentiments about
colleague, uh, Alderman vasas sentiments about um, all of
the work that your unions have done.
the work that your unions have done to ensure that we have
clean safe reliable.
clean safe reliable everything in this in this city. Sorry,
I forgot to get closer to the microphone here. Um, I just a
just a couple of questions and you know, Mark I
appreciate your comments about a global app.
appreciate your comments about a global approach, um to to
energy and I think you were spot.
energy and I think you were spot on in the in the sense
that you know, this is um, a first step in the conversation
about what the world looks like with no natural gas in the
city of Chicago and frankly everywhere. Um, it certainly
has been the tenor of a lot of my questions because I think
my concerns are are the larger concerns about what happens
next with everything else.
just a couple of questions. Um
Just a couple of questions. Um, and uh for the pipe fitters
if you can help me with this.
if you can help me with this, um, how much of a of the pipe
fitters work involves natural gas related.
fitters work involves natural gas related work to and
people's gas specifically and then forgive my ignorance,
please so so we work with people's gas through Kant.
please so so we work with people's gas through contractors.
So people's gas has their own piping division. Uh, we
typically do infrastructure works so we will work with
typically do infrastructure works. So we will work with the
operators and we put the pipes in the ground.
operators and we put the pipes in the ground run them
typically up to the buildings and then people's gas and
stalls meters. Um, and then some of the piping depending on
stalls meters. Um, and then some of the piping dependent on
where the break is sometimes if they're busy we do a lot of
it if they're not as busy then we do more of it. So we
are a contractor right? We're a trade Union.
are a contractor right? We're a trade Union we are in an
in-house, uh,
in-house, uh Union so it it really depends on
where people's gas is at with their people.
Where people's gas is at with their people what their
workload is to what us?
workload is to what us the contractors?
uh
get
Get out of that right? It's different every year, but
right.
now we're we're down 219 guys.
now we're we're down 219 guys 220 guys that we would
typically have working with people's gas. So is it fair to
say that the majority of the the work that your members
engage with? Um is driven by new construction.
Uh, no we do.
Uh, no, we do a lot of the infrastructure change out.
That's gonna that was happening. Uh, the 100-year-old
piping.
system is typically driven by the Conte.
system is typically driven by the contractors that Mark and
and I am involved with uh, both of our groups typically.
involved with changing that out and installing new.
involved with changing that out and installing new but
Yeah, I I would say all the women.
yeah, I I would say all the women prior to the accelerated
mainly plus program of about 10 years ago the vast majority
of the contractors that would.
of the contractors. That would be uh employee local in 50
members would be new construction builds, uh for the last
deck.
decade plus now, the accelerated man replacement program
has been the single largest, uh our generator actually.
local 150 is entire membership across a 3 state.
local 150 is entire membership across a 3 state area so
that project alone, uh of about 24/25 million man hours
total. Um, the largest our generator was the accelerated
main replacement program.
main replacement program which which ended or was paused,
uh, as of January,
uh, as of January 1st this year and you know, there's still
a fair amount of work to be, you know, had and done uh on
that particular.
that particular project over a you know, a fairly long
period of time still
Thank you for that. Um.
I think what a lot of what I'm taking away from everybody.
I think what a lot of what I'm taking away from everybody's
you know, presentations and testim.
you know, presentations and testimony today. Um is the need
for
A as you mentioned a global approach, I think a more Bal.
balanced approach, um that uh that also includes incentives
around. Um, the things that we can do today to make places
more energy efficient. Um, you know, I'll be interested in
in talking to Alderman vagus. I made some notes Gil. I oh
he left darn it.
Oh, man, I can't I'm just not gonna look.
Oh, man, I can't I'm just not gonna look over my shoulder
anymore. There's nobody there. Um, you know, I think that I
think there there are a lot of opportunities. I'm going to
continue to stay engaged in this conversation. This is not
a committee I sit on but obviously this is something that
we should all be actively involved in in this conversation.
Um,
Can you can any of you?
Can you can any of you um comment a little bit about?
Can you can any of you um comment a little bit about how
your unions are um prep?
your unions are um, preparing for sustainable energy jobs
and Mark you start.
and Mark you started to touch on it. I know you you've
talked about the different transition.
talked about the different transitions. I I think it would
be great to get on the record. Just um, you know, this is
something that we all know is coming.
something that we all know is coming um, and and how our
uh, how our each of your unions
how our each of your unions, um, you know beginning to
prepare for that and what can what can we do to help in
that process as well? Yeah. I mean, I'll just give you a a
handful of examples. Um it I mentioned these before I mean
we went from uh a Coal Fired power plants to working.
nuclear.
Plants, right. I mean it was a massive jump.
Plants, right. I mean it was a massive jump, uh to get
people, uh, both certified and Rec.
people, uh, both certified and recognized and get the
credentials to be able to even enter those FAQ.
credentials to be able to even enter those facilities. Let
alone be working on nuclear reactors. Uh, right. So so that
was a a major step. Uh, and then we went
was a a major step, uh, and then we went from there to uh,
things like wind turbines right things.
things like wind turbines right things that stand hundreds
of feet, uh, uh, uh in the air in the middle of uh, in the
middle of a cornfield, uh, right so pouring found,
middle of a cornfield, uh, right, so pouring foundations
and getting these things lifted up and getting them in the
exact position.
exact position so that they're calibrated just the right
way so that they catch the wind, uh, just the right way to
to generate what they're supposed to generate. Um, and then
solar uh, same thing, right?
solar uh, same thing right G GPS GPS enabled pieces of
equipment that you had to train people on.
equipment that you had to train people on so that when they
go out in the middle of a farm field, right these are
positioned in just the right way and the panels are tilted
and just the right man.
and just the right manner that they're catching the
sunlight because right every kilowatt matters. Um, so you
know, those are just a couple of examples. I mean those are
are things that we've uh We've we've done at at
training site, uh in Wilmington, uh, not to mention go
geothermal. I mean that was mentioned a couple times heat
pumps and uh geothermal I mean geothermal
thermal is essentially, you know hundreds of feet drilled
down putting a loop, uh, then through that using the
ambient Earth temperature as like a constant.
ambient Earth temperature as like a constant 55 degrees. So
you're only Heating and Cooling from that particular area.
Um, Local 150 about 10 years ago did it
campus in a geothermal?
campus in a geothermal, uh, uh Network system of of 600
deep Wells.
deep Wells, uh, where we heat and cool, uh that entire
campus, uh, uh, uh by geothermal
ground, right?
larger scale. So we trained uh individual apprentices then
developed a program around it and then had a
apprenticeship adopted uh for the drilling industry for
geothermal.
geothermal drilling, uh at the apprenticeship site. So, you
know again, I mean, I think that's probably true for
everybody right? There's an adapt
everybody right there's an adaptation. Uh, uh, you know,
we're we're like any other university write a new
technology or a new Theory comes out. Uh, uh, we we send
experts out to it. We change our standards we uh, uh, take
those individuals and we train them, uh,
those individuals and we train them. Uh, so that they're
they're the best of the best. I mean, we don't we don't ask
somebody to pay somebody $50 an hour and $50 in benefits
for 100 bucks.
for 100 bucks an hour because they're not the best of the
best in class. Um, we send the best workers, uh to do the
best work, uh, and that's been proven uh in the city of
Chicago and in the state of, Illinois,
Chicago and in the state of Illinois for for Generations,
um real quick, so just to touch on something we
um real quick, so just to touch on something. We actually
our local was Forward Thinking last year and we signed a
5-year contract where we have contract language in place
that any pivot.
that any pivot in the industry whether it's hydrogen RNG.
solar wind whatever people's gas agreed to sit.
us and discuss those new technologies so we could
those jobs in house.
And we also train at our facility in.
And we also train at our facility in Mokena. Um
all the new all the latest technologies that come out we
train.
trained in and that's that's what we do. That's that's how
we stay employed. Our guys are continually going.
we stay employed. Our guys are continually going to school.
Our apprenticeship program is 5 years.
Our apprenticeship program is 5 years long. We do over
1,400 hours in the class.
1,400 hours in the classroom and over 8,000 hours in the
field to get your journeyman's guard. So when you come out
as a pipe Union pipe hitter, you're very well trained after
5 years. So and then to continue to go back to school and
train we train our whole careers same way they do.
train we train our whole careers same way. They do right?
We we are our guys constantly.
We we are our guys constantly go back to school to upgrade
their certs and learn to new technology.
So
oh and and here.
oh and and here I'd welcome any of you guys that want to
come out to our facility in Mokena. That's our largest FAQ.
facility. The largest of 3, uh, I'd love to walk you guys.
through right now. We have 1100 apprentices.
through right now. We have 1100 apprentices in the system.
We typically have about 350.
We typically have about 350 there every day.
I'd love to walk you through.
I'd love to walk you through and show you what we do,
right?
so you have a better understanding what we what we do so
we'll let you run a crane.
the other uh
susd
sustainable energy domestic solar water heating
All right, it sounds real good.
All right. It sounds real good, right?
When the Daylight's out there, right?
Now what unit do you use?
to
heat it when there's no sunlight.
you use a condensating boiler, which is
90 something percent efficient, and they're usually gas if
you would go and ban gas.
you would go and ban gas you would ban that type of
efficient solar energy system which 1 of them is probably
the most efficient in the world.
the most efficient in the world that follows that but you
would be banning.
would be banning that system by doing that.
you know you
You know, you have a good size battery in there. It could
hold.
hold up with most water usage, but it does need.
hold up with most water usage, but it does need that boiler
back up and condens.
back up and condensating high efficiency boiler for that.
All right.
All right, so there is a lot of sustainable stuff on the
market in buildings today.
market in buildings today, which we would be eliminating.
If we would ban gas.
And then we have people that are putting in tankless water.
heaters today condensating tankless water.
heaters today condensating tankless water heaters 96, uh,
percent efficient. They're gas.
You wouldn't get that efficiency that water that.
You wouldn't get that efficiency that water that make up in
temperature with anything.
temperature with anything else.
and
it's not heating water 24.
it's not heating water 24/77 days a week this technology is
is only heating water when the individual.
Asked for it.
So you're there's a bunch of sustainable stuff.
So you're there's a bunch of sustainable stuff that by
putting this.
A code in you would be banned.
A code in you would be banning that type of Technology.
I would like to add that.
When you listen to us here.
labor
we're the
We're the subject matter experts when it comes to.
everything, um pertaining our Endust.
everything, um pertaining our industry. Um,
We know what works. We know what.
we know what works we know what doesn't work. We've seen
it.
We're not.
Trying to make up some magical.
Thing and say well we need to do this we need.
Thing and say well we need to do this we need to do that.
We've seen what works we've seen.
We've seen what works we've seen what doesn't work and
that's part of what we're saying as the ones that work.
that's part of what we're saying as the ones that work in
the field.
That work in the industry. We see the changes and we know
what works and natural gas.
what works and Natural Gas Works.
It works.
I think what was it last week there was
I think what was it last week? There was a hail storm in
Texas that damn.
Texas that damaged the solar panels and they were out they
were there. There's no electricity now.
You don't get that with gas. The only time gas goes.
You don't get that with gas. The only time gas goes out is
if someone hits the gas line.
and that you know, I think that what I've heard today is
a lot of people mad because of the gas bills.
And say well our gas bills are.
And say well our gas bills are high. So gas is bad. It's it
shouldn't work.
shouldn't work that way. It's not fair.
Any further questions, hold on. Yes, um
this talk about redundancy.
This talk about redundancy and thank you. Did Brian from
the um.
the um from the plumbers. What is your name sir? Jim? I'm
so sorry.
so sorry Jim. Thank you for um for getting back to the the
the sort of backup system and the redundancies can
in the room and I don't know who this should be directed to
talk.
talk about like, um,
What buildings have redundancies built into?
What buildings have redundancies built into them so like
should this passes? Um 1 of the car outs is to produce
emergency or standby electricity. That's generators. Um,
what sort of backup systems would a new building have then?
Um if they're only required or if they if it's required to
be electrification, I'm
Assuming it would be some generator.
Assuming it would be some generator, but I don't like how
many buildings typically have.
many buildings typically have backup generation I guess is
the better question.
the better question when they deal with.
when I deal with
When I deal with fire protection, all right in a high-rise
building.
building, we'll just say a 50 story high-rise building.
They have fire pumps in there.
And the fire pump.
And the fire pumps usually have a transfer switch in front
of their.
of there and that transfer switch will usually work and
they'll bring 2 different electrical feeds into the
building.
All right, or if they don't have the availability of 2
different electrical feeds.
different electrical feeds they have a generator there. So
if the Commonwealth Edison goes out the generator Kicks On
by the way.
by the way, that's natural gas by the way. All right, and
by the way, that's natural gas, by the way. All right, and
that generator kicks on and then the transfer switch turns
that fire pump on and this is for life safety issues.
Mark did you have something? Yeah, well, I would just I I
just I just want to be clear the the ordinance has a
number.
of exemptions in it. Uh, and I believe 1 of the exemptions.
for example is a Wood-Fired uh fireplace.
for example is a Wood-Fired, uh fireplace. I'm sorry a
gas-fired fireplace. Um, right.
gas-fired fireplace. Um, right natural burning fireplace
with gas. I think there's an exemption for that. Is that
right? There's a so if you were to spec a residential
for example, or that type of a fireplace.
for example, or that type of a fireplace you could in fact
run natural gas to a new construction residents and get
natural gas hooked.
natural gas hooked up So for anybody that really wanted it
they could certainly get it. The the point though is is
that again I go back to the to the premise of this
conversation.
and energy in the state and in this country.
and energy in the state and in this country and more
specifically, this is 1 Step.
on the road to the extinction of
On the road to the extinction of natural gas. That's all it
is. I mean if you tried to take this all-in-1 bite which
said that we're going to retire natural gas at the city of
Chicago the next 10 years. I can't imagine you'd find too
many people in city council that would vote for that. But
the point is that if you incrementally do it it
the point is that if you incrementally do it, it feels like
it was more.
of a slow palatable way to
Of a slow palatable way to go about it. And by the way,
that's what most cities in the country are.
that's what most cities in the country are are San
Francisco, Berkeley, California, uh, New York.
Francisco, Berkeley, California, uh, New York that the list
goes on right but at the end of the day, um, the chairman
of the ICC Comm
of the ICC commission could not have been more clear.
He suggests that when they passed the clean energy jobs
jobs Act cjo.
that a um renewable energy by 2050 is the Mandate in there
and that means
And that means the extinction of natural gas by 2050.
That's the road. We're headed down if we if we if we
buy into that that is the order and that's what we're faced
with right now. So I'm not I'm not again. I'm not sure that
this this that this exercise at city council.
this this that this exercise at city council is going to
change much of anything. The trajectory of the state is the
future of gas is gas is extinct in 2050. So says the ICC
commission and the governor's office, right? So again,
that's why I say, it's just it's a much bigger.
and I think everybody in City
and I think everybody in city council. I didn't see anyone
from City Council in Springfield.
from City Council in Springfield last year when we tried to
pass offshore.
pass offshore wind.
Uh, uh to uh to be placed.
uh, uh to uh to be placed in Lake Michigan to create
transmission close enough to the source to where we could
go more Electric in the city of Chicago No 1 from city
council was in Springfield when we tried to push.
council was in Springfield when we tried to push uh, uh, uh
advocate for a pilot program.
uh advocate for a pilot program on geothermal so that we
could get off of uh, forced air units and natural gas units
and go to geothermal to heat and cool homes. I didn't see
right. The the point is is that if we're all working
together towards a common goal of decarbonization and of
you know,
you know moving this incrementally through the ICC is going
to do 1 Thing the IPA city council some other Kane County.
just passed a sweeping recommend.
just passed a sweeping recommendations, uh to decarbonize
and and Kane County. There's a good example, we grabbed a
lot of their recommendations,
lot of their recommendations and recommended them to the
city council things like better.
city council things like better education for people on
changing out windows and doors.
the heat pumps going to
cars, uh invest
what we're really talking about and I think everybody has
said with this ordinance, we're not talking about the ban
on natural gas. That's what a lot.
on natural gas. That's what a lot of people have said. What
we're talking about is emission stand.
we're talking about is emission standards in homes. That's
what we're talking about. So okay if that's what we're
talking about, but we're really talking.
talking about, but we're really talking about is
decarbonizing then we should have a bigger broader
conversation.
conversation about decarbonizing well, and I think
naturally that part of that conversation has to do with the
infrastructure that is supporting guests currently today
and the potential future for hydrogen in the future which
would would require excuse me. It's been a long day
require.
the the continued. Um, uh, uh upd
the the continued um, uh, uh updates of the of the current
infrastructure forgets. Thanks. That's all I've got
appreciate everybody's time.
Lopez
thank you and
Thank you and action I'm going to thank my colleague
Alderman Lee for taking up.
Alderman Lee for taking up my very first question.
um for
Um for all of our folks in labor here.
You know numerous times today. We heard throughout the 8
hours. We've been here about
People's gas is going to be here for a generation.
People's gas is going to be here for a generation to come.
And then we also heard.
And then we also heard right out the gate that our own
Department of EnV.
Department of environment says that
expanding and investing and taking care of that other 70%
of the pipes that we have in replaced is bad policy.
I'll gladly oppose it and vocalize that at the same time.
So that being said with them sitting 2.
So that being said with them sitting 2 rows behind me. Do
you think it would be
do you feel that the words that are being?
Do you feel that the words that are being spoken you could
all kind of not well, I already know where you think.
all kind of not well, I already know where you think Mark,
but I'll ask everybody else. Do you think?
but I'll ask everybody else. Do you think that our words
are matching those actions?
are matching those actions that we actually want to see
people's.
people's gas or gas delivery here for the next few
Generations.
based on what we're doing in Springfield right now with the
ICC and everything. Yeah. Yeah. I think I think these
simple answer is of course.
simple answer is of course not right? Yeah, there are major
steps being taken to a to make natural gas a to that point.
Do you think that it would behoove this Administration?
Do you think that it would behoove this Administration as a
sign of good faith of working with its partners?
to
approach or reproach the ICC and ask them to
the short term Grant the route.
the short term Grant the routine work to proceed the
maintenance work that was already scheduled.
So that we can show that we are actually working in.
faith to do exactly what we're talking about, which is to
have that Runway built as we
Are driving the airplane down for electric to?
Are driving the airplane down for total electrification so
that the gas?
electrification so that the gas is Delivery Systems that
are still in place.
are
Are fully upgraded?
Yeah, I yes. I would think that.
Yeah, I yes. I would think that the administration it would
behoove the administration to um file a motion in support
of the continuation of the accelerated manipulation program
at a current proceeding that is before the ICC, right?
at a current proceeding that is before the ICC right now.
And that's a collective. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.
so I I think
So I I think chairman that you know, I don't want to really
belabor this point, but I think you know, we've heard
throughout.
throughout the day about working together we've heard about
about people's gases and going anywhere and I think that if
that's the case.
that's the case then we really need to be able to invest.
can walk and chew gum at the same time in the city of
Chicago.
And we can invest while we grow.
And we can invest while we grow to whatever the next
generation is. And I think that's the message that we need
to sh share and send to our part.
to sh share and send to our partners to Springfield and to
this body that it's okay for us to have this conversation
that we're talking about.
that we're talking about while also not forgetting about
what's going on in our own neighborhoods. Um, I do know and
I'm familiar with the Wind.
I'm familiar with the wind. Uh, I think it was
representative of Marcus Evans introduced that correct, uh
last session.
um, and I
Um, and I do know chairman that at 1 Point the city of
Chicago.
Chicago had actually invested I think close to a quarter.
a million dollars in its own.
renewable
facility somewhere down.
facility somewhere down in
Southern Illinois if I'm not mistaken, um, and I'm sure we
could bring back. I think it was under uh AIS or 2 FM at
the time.
the time because we were trying to see how we can generate
our own.
our own wind power down in Springfield, but I think that
you know,
you know that Spirit of collaboration to Mark's Point has
been sorely missing.
um, and I love to be able
Um, and I love to be able to not just in this room, but
with all of our partners sit.
with all of our partners sit down and focus because
there's 1
There's 1 City.
And I'm going to end on this example.
and I'm going to end on this example Mark and talked about
going from coal to nuclear power.
um and I believe
um, and I believe some of our res our speakers talked about
about, you know, Maine and some other places where they've
done this.
But there's 1 City in particular that I think is important
for all of us.
for all of us to recognize.
Juneau, Alaska
Juneau Alaska gets Chicago's weather 3 days before we do.
Because that's the arctic front that comes.
Because that's the arctic front that comes our Direction.
they actually
They actually have been very proactive in.
putting in place an uh, the
Putting in place an uh, the electrification for homes and
businesses and things of that nature.
but they didn't just cancel the
oil lines that provided the energy
in Alaska, they they had
In Alaska, they they had 3 dozen different programs to
help.
families to help individuals help business
Families to help individuals help businesses to help
communities get to that point.
communities get to that point spent Millions.
tens of Millions
tens of millions of dollars on education
and worked
And worked with their Partners to make sure that they were
able.
able to evolve just as their contract talks about.
That I think is the framework upon which we should.
looking at this in the context of the weather that we get.
because it's shared in both.
Juno and Chicago
and I think if we're going to
And I think if we're going to have these have this push and
recogn.
recognizing that yes, this is about
taking natural gas completely because some people's legac.
legacies depend on it.
Then we need to be able to do it.
Then we need to be able to do it in a thoughtful way. That
makes sense. Based on what we've seen.
makes sense. Based on what we've seen in the exact same
weather pattern we get and I gladly share with you or the
members of the committee or whoever's here a great article
from Juneau, Alaska on how
from Juneau Alaska on how they did that. What was it what
it all entailed, but I guarantee
it all entailed but I guarantee you madam chairman. It did
not have this.
Gauntlet that we see now it was very much the the expanded
conversation that everyone's talking about.
conversation that everyone's talking about that didn't
leave work groups or people out. Um, so I would just end,
uh, this Marathon session.
uh, this Marathon session on that note go Juneau, Alaska
and
Happy to see what we could do to make that.
Happy to see what we could do to make that work while we
also get our people back to work.
also get our people back to work who are working for
people's gas in our communities.
people's gas in our communities as well as planning for the
future. Thank you.
Thanks. Alderman.
And I'd say definitely share the article.
And I'd say definitely share the article share the article
and we'll share it with the committee. Um, I've got a
couple of of comments, uh,
couple of of comments, uh for our guests. So 1 1 of my main
questions, uh, alderwoman lee asked and that was kind of
about your training programs for the future and um, I'm
wondering and this is just for everyone's kind of
information if through the chair you would, you know, each
of you from your locals would send us some information.
of you from your locals would send us some information so I
know we've got the invites to come and check you out. But
if you guys wouldn't mind sending us some information about
your programs your apprenticeship programs and I'll say I I
think something I'd like to talk about in the future and
this is not just about this ordinance, but I think to 1 of
the threads and the themes that we've had around here is to
talk about what the city of Chicago's role is in.
those conversations right with our labor partners.
those matches for trainings for jobs, right because
We heard from some of our kind of uh private.
We heard from some of our kind of uh, private and nonprofit
Partners kind of doing the work.
Partners kind of doing the work, you know where some of the
gaps are and I think that that's always a worthwhile kind
of Labor Force conversation of where are we seeing the
need? Um, where do we have?
need? Um, where do we have right like kind of the training?
What are the gaps and it would be interesting to have some
follow-up with you all about what you're seeing, um from
your perspective as well. So that that's something I would
love to you know, if you could send us some general
information.
information for now, we'll share with everybody and then
think about some follow-up conversations. Um,
I did want to make a couple of notes and these are just
some closing remarks.
some closing remarks as well because man, right it's a long
day for us.
long day for us. Um 1 is uh, just a lot of grat.
long day for us. Um, 1 is uh, just a lot of gratitude.
Thank you all for being here. Um, thanks for everyone. Who
came to participate and share. Um, and you know, as I said,
this is not our last convers.
this is not our last conversation about this piece of
legislation. I think we have and I've heard a lot of
agreement on this.
agreement on this being transformational, um a lot of
agreement on the broad scope, um a lot of requests for
collaboration and kind of people wanting to make sure that
they've got uh a seat at the table and that voices are
heard. So I I definitely hear that. Um, I also I know you
guys have kind of gone back and forth.
you guys have kind of gone back and forth and throughout
the day, um, we're going back and forth on whether this is
a a gas.
a a gas ban or not. Um, and we know it's not a gas ban,
right and also and I think Mark you brought this up a few a
few times
We're all moving in this direction whether it's an
intentional.
intentional right like different and this is across the
country.
across the world whether it's an intentional move from a
government.
government agency that says hey, we don't see this.
happening or we're setting a goal. Um for the next 25
to phase this out or whether it's us looking at um, the
move away from fossil fuels in general for our emission
standards, um, or whether it's looking at the the finite
resources and the response.
resources and the responsibility that we have in government
and in Industry to think about what's next. Um, we are on
this train,
We are.
we are um, whether we like it or not and we we have to
we are um, whether we like it or not, and we we have to
manage the transition and I want to lift that up to
some of our environmental partners and and some of the the
position.
position from the city. I think that's a balance. We're
trying.
trying to have of
if we don't do anything particularly different, um, if we
don't get ahead of it if we don't make a plan together.
don't get ahead of it, if we don't make a plan together if
we don't work on a transition of which we see Cabo as like
a small step. Um,
a small step, um, both a step to get us thinking about it
and to test out our systems. Um, so as we talk about um,
Um, I think you called it like the gauntlet.
Um, I think you called it like The Gauntlet Alderman Lopez.
Cabo that is certainly not the intention for what it's to
be.
Cabo that is certainly not the intention for what it's to
be and if we think about what a gauntlet really will be.
be and if we think about what a gauntlet really will be it
would be some other change outside of the city of Chicago.
would be some other change outside of the city of Chicago
write some change that the states already making.
write some change that the states already making that ICC
is making write something coming from some other agency or
entity. That's
entity that's telling us well. Guess what?
Uh, we told you.
Uh, we told you 2050 was the time frame and and now it's
20.
2030 and now it's 2035. And what is the city of Chicago
doing in order to?
doing in order to make our code to make our Pro?
doing in order to make our code to make our processes and
to prepare our residents for the future that is inevitable
whether it's for resources or goals or because someone else
has set this up for us. Um, so I do I've heard that like we
might be coming from some different perspectives.
might be coming from some different perspectives, but I
think there is some general agreement that we need.
think there is some general agreement that we need to
figure out what a future is.
figure out what a future is for emissions purposes for
health purposes.
health purposes for Energy savings purposes, but also,
you know, we're moving away from
You know, we're moving away from natural gas as we're
currently using it and how are we all going to do?
currently using it and how are we all going to do our best
to prepare for it? Um, so I uh, just just kind of wanted to
say that because I know we're we get in our um, no pun
intended.
intended heated discussions, um around that and yeah, thank
you, right
you. Alright, um, and even from the beginning I know it's
difficult when we're talking about these 2
energy companies that
Energy companies that were working with and that really
clouds the conversation as well. So I know it makes it
complicated. Um, I will point out they are
You know public UT.
You know public utilities and in their own, right? They
actually are already.
actually are already monopolies.
just to say as we talk about the fear of having 1 they're
already monopolies, but their public utilities which is why
they're highly regulated in a different way. Um, so we're
probably not going to get around that anytime soon, but
probably not going to get around that anytime soon. But um
with that being said,
Very much appreciate.
Very much appreciate the conversation the participation.
the interest thank you for representing your members. Thank
you.
you to members who made time to be here today. Um, thank
you to all of the city staff and everyone, uh controlling
our sound.
right
Right controlling the zoom to everyone tuning in to the to.
the sergeant-at-arms teams and the uh police officers.
the sergeant-at-arms teams and the uh police officers that
are here. We appreciate you guys staying late with us.
um
so having no more questions that concludes the items before
the committee today. Um when I want to thank my team we got
to move to adjourn so ordered.
Thank you all.
only
Great job.