City of Chicago city council rules of conduct for public
meetings 2023 to 2027 pursuant to the Chicago city council
Rules of Order and procedure rule 49 the sergeant at
Rules of Order and procedure rule 49. The sergeant-at-arms
sets forth the following rules of conduct to be follow.
during the public comment period and the duration of all
committee and City Council meetings Prof.
committee and City Council meetings profane vulgar
threatening abusive or disruptive language is not permitted
demeaning disc.
demeaning discriminatory or harassing behavior and
directed towards others is
behavior including Des.
during others.
during others presentations is not permitted banners flyers
or signage are not permitted backpacks large bags and
objects are not permitted clear bags not tinted in color
that do not exceed 12 by 12.
that do not exceed 12 by 12 by 6 in will be permitted in
our subject to search food and beverages including in
canisters are not permitted.
cell phones must
Cell phones must be placed on silent prior to entering the
meeting room.
meeting room individuals must remain seated public comment.
speakers are permitted to stand only when providing public
comment.
comment small handheld devices may be used only.
comment small handheld devices may be used only while
seated and the user must refrain from interfering with the
view or hearing of other individuals individuals.
view or hearing of other individuals individuals or groups
failing to adhere to these rules will be asked to see such
disruptive conduct and failure to comply will result in
there being subject to removal from the meeting by the
sergeant-at-arms.
City of Chicago City
City of Chicago city council rules of conduct for public
meetings 2023 to 2027 pursuant to the Chicago city council
Rules of Order and proced.
Rules of Order and procedure rule 49 the sergeant at
Rules of Order and procedure rule 49. The sergeant-at-arms
sets forth the following rules of
during the public comment period and
committee and City Council meetings.
committee and City Council meetings profane vulgar
threatened.
Abusive or disruptive language is not permitted demeaning
discrimen.
discriminatory or harassing behavior and speech directed.
towards others is not permitted disruptive behav.
including disruptive or disrespectful Condit.
including disruptive or disrespectful contacting others
presentations is not permitted.
presentations is not permitted banners Liars or signage are
not permitted.
not permitted backpacks large bags and sharp.
not permitted backpacks large bags and sharp objects are
not permitted clear bags not tint.
not permitted clear bags not tinted in color that do not
exceed 12 by 12 by 6 in will be permitted in our subject to
search.
search food and beverages including in metal canisters are
not permitted cell phones must be placed on silent prior to
entering the meeting room.
entering the meeting room individuals must remain seated
public comment.
public comment speakers are permitted to stand only when
providing public comment.
providing public comment small handheld devices may be used
only while seated and the user must refrain from
interfering with the view or hearing of other individuals
individuals or group.
individuals or groups failing to adhere to these rules will
be asked to see such disruptive conduct and
Failure to comply will result.
Failure to comply will result in there being subject to
removal from the meeting by the sergeant.
removal from the meeting by the sergeant-at-arms.
city of Chicago
City of Chicago city council rules of conduct for public
meetings 2023 to 2027 pursuant to the Chicago city council
Rules of Order and procedure rule 49 the sergeant.
Rules of Order and procedure rule 49. The sergeant-at-arms
sets forth the following rules of
during the public comment period and
committee and City Council meetings.
committee and City Council meetings profane vulgar Retton.
in color that do not exceed 12x 12 by 6 in will be
permitted in our subject to search food and beverages
including in metal canisters are not permitted cell phones
must be placed on silent prior to entering the meeting
room.
must be placed on silent prior to entering the meeting room
individuals must remain seated public.
individuals must remain seated public comment speakers are
permitted to stand only when providing public comment small
handheld devices may be used only while seated and the user
must refrain from interfering with the view or hearing of
other individuals individual.
other individuals individuals or groups failing to adhere
to these rules will be asked to see such disruptive conduct
and failure to comply will result in there being subject to
removal from the meeting by the sergeant-at-arms.
city of
City of Chicago city council rules of conduct
meetings 20
on the street
yourself
Yourself? Thank you.
you talk to
Unknown Caller
to
City of Chicago city council rules of conduct for public
meetings 2023 to 2027 pursuant to the Chicago city council
rules.
Rules of Order and procedure rule 49 the
Rules of Order and procedure rule 49. The sergeant-at-arms
sets forth the following rules of conduct to be followed
during the public comment period and the duration of all
committee and City Council meetings.
committee and City Council meetings profane vulgar
threatening Abyss.
threatening abusive or disruptive language is not
permitted.
demeaning discriminatory or harassing Behavior.
demeaning discriminatory or harassing behavior and speech
directed towards others is not permitted.
directed towards others is not permitted disruptive
behavior, including disruptive or Des.
behavior, including disruptive or disrespectful content
during others presentations is not permitted banners Liars
or signage are not permitted backpacks.
or signage are not permitted backpacks large bags and sharp
objects are not per
Committed clear bags not tinted in color that do not exceed.
12 by 12 by 6 in will be permitted.
12 by 12 by 6 in will be permitted in our subject to search
food and beverages including in metal canisters are not
permitted.
permitted cell phones must be placed on silent prior to
entering the meeting room individuals must remain seated.
entering the meeting room individuals must remain seated
public comment speakers are permitted to stand only when
Prov
providing public comment small handheld devices.
providing public comment small handheld devices may be used
only while seated and the user must refrain.
interfering with the view or hearing of other individual.
individuals or groups failing to adhere to these rules.
individuals or groups failing to adhere to these rules will
be asked to see such disruptive conduct and failure.
be asked to see such disruptive conduct and failure to
comply will result in their being subject to removal.
the meeting by the sergeant-at-arms.
Good.
Good morning, everyone.
the committee
The committee on police and fire has come to order. We will
begin a roll call to deter.
begin a roll call to determine a quorum Alderman Talia
Ferrell's president.
Ferrell's president vice chair Robinson.
Vice chair Robinson's present silently Al alderman
Vice chair Robinson's present silently Al Alderman Hall
Alderman Mitchell
alderwoman Lee
Alderman Curtis
alderwoman Taylor
Alderman Mosley
alderwoman tobars
Alderman Irving
Alderman Cardona
Al
alderman spod
Alder
alderwoman nent
Alderman the politano
alderman kitson
Alderman Gardner
Al
alderwoman claying
alderwoman Silverstein
we have 9 members present. We do have a quorum.
pursuant to rule 59 we have
a few Alderman that have requested um presence
A few Alderman that have requested. Um Presence by remote
means
we have online Alderman Irving.
alderwoman mitts
Let me just get the list.
all the women lie
alderwoman Taylor Alderman Mosley Alderman Irving
alderwoman nent
have requested remote presence. Can I get a motion to
approve?
so moved by alderman
card
Cardona all those in favor say I
all those opposed nay
And the opinion of the chairs the eyes have it those.
aldermen will be um accounted as president for purposes of
a quorum.
We will now go into our public.
We will now go into our public comment. Each speaker will
be allotted 3 minutes.
be allotted 3 minutes to speak. Um before we speak we do
have approximately 61 statements for public comment.
have approximately 61 statements for public comment that
were emailed to the committee.
were emailed to the committee that will be reflected in the
record today and each member.
record today and each member will be emailed a copy of
record today. And each member will be emailed a copy of the
uh, public comments that were submitted by email our first
Speaker miss Mr. Chairman Alderman. Bernett is on.
Speaker miss Mr. Chairman Alderman Bernett is on not a
Committee Member at all.
Alderman Bernett is present as well any any um committee or
any non-members, um that appear virtually.
any non-members, um that appear virtually or in presence
will be marked, um as present for purposes of attendance
today, uh to include um, Alderman Lopez walking through the
door now,
our first speaker
Our first speaker will be Sally Fernandez.
Sally Fernandez if
Sally Fernandez, if you could please step up to the mic,
please.
I miss Fernandez. It's good to see you again. We have you.
have 3 minutes. Thank you very much. My name.
have 3 minutes. Thank you very much. My name is Sally Garza
Fernandez. I reside in both in.
Fernandez. I reside in both in Chicago and in Arizona. I'm
the president and CEO.
the president and CEO of a company called Safety Dynamics
my company.
My company has had a gunshot detection system in the
for over 20 years. It's a system that works with.
for over 20 years. It's a system that works with
intelligence. It's all intellectual property.
through patents, but it actually detects gunshot.
through patents, but it actually detects gunshot and 0.4
seconds. That means it's detecting the
seconds. That means it's detecting The Gunshot the bullet
before it even leaves the barrel. It actually detects
gunshot versus system.
gunshot versus systems that use humans to listen and
attempt to detect gunshot. My system is all technology.
It's used all over the country. It's used in things like
federal reserve banks have my system why because of it?
precise Precision ability to be able to detect gunshot and
do it so quickly. We're in places like power plants nuclear
power plants so critical infrastructure.
power plants. So critical infrastructure. That's at risk
well,
our city is
Our city is at risk. I've had businesses as well as 2
businesses here.
businesses here and a condo here for 20 years and our city.
is being so disrupted by all of the shots.
is being so disrupted by all of the shots fired throughout
the city that it's time for this.
the city that it's time for this committee as well as the
city council to look at.
city council to look at other Technologies and not just
assume that what you have is the best thing in the market
we've
We've been here longer than shot Spotter and we actually do
techn do detect gunshot their system does not
do techn do detect gunshot their system does not it's
humans again, so I just want to conclude
again, so I just want to conclude my remarks with I
encourage you with all of my uh support that I can give you
to please.
to please go. Look at other Technologies make this an open
an open opportunity for other companies to show what they
can do. Don't just assume that what you have is the best.
Thank you. Thank you, Miss Fernandez our
Thank you. Thank you Miss Fernandez. Our next speaker is
Miss Jessica Jackson.
Miss Jackson, good morning, and good to see you.
Good.
Good morning. Good morning. Good morning.
Um
the bottom line is this
you can deal with technology and you can put a bunch of
money and stuff into the police budgets and all of that but
none.
none of this crime in this city is going to stop.
you get it from the head and the head of these corrupt
judges.
that has to
That has to be looked at the issue of corrupt Judd.
That has to be looked at the issue of corrupt judges.
because they're
Because they're everywhere.
That's the situation that brought me to.
That's the situation that brought me to City Hall in the
first place my issue with the probate.
um process and public administration
corrupt judges now when you look at even the criminal
system
and my experience has been a lot of these Judd.
and my experience has been a lot of these judges are
incompetent.
So you talking about people that probably are getting
locked up.
locked up that shouldn't be locked up.
people that
People that are locked up that that should that are not
locked up. That should be locked up.
And there's nothing you can do.
When you file things in court.
It can't go anywhere because corrupt.
It can't go anywhere because corrupt judges.
and that's something that
City Hall needs to pay attention to and look at because
it's got us caught up.
You can't do anything in this city.
because the corrupt judges and when you are a law-abiding
citizen and you take the steps to do what you need to do to
straighten out the situation and the fact that you can't
get it straightened out because of corrupt.
get it straightened out because of corrupt judges.
This is a shame.
So for all of you who don't know.
So for all of you who don't know what I'm talking about.
I'm going to give you.
I'm going to give you a starter kit this morning.
Start over there.
start over there in the probate division start over there
with judge Terrence Maguire.
Start over there with judge Carolyn Galla.
Start over there.
with chief judge Timothy Evans himself
then you going to move on over to the
Then you going to move on over to the public administration
office and you get that.
office and you get that crooked Tina Laius.
office and you get that crooked Tina Lusa. However, you say
her name.
But let me spell it for you so I can help you out.
A first name is Tina.
A first name is Tina and her last name is spelled.
a first name is Tina and her last name is spelled l o u
St.
S t r o p o l o u s now she is.
S t r o p o l o u s now she is so corrupt as a public
administrator.
administrator that while I had this issue.
In court and I had to move it from the Circuit Court.
put it into the federal court. She has told my tenants to
squat on me.
What police can tell?
A criminal to go do a bank.
A criminal to go do a bank robbery.
This needs to be attend.
This needs to be attended to thank you, Miss Jackson.
Thank you, Miss Jackson, Mr. George Blake Moore.
Mr. Blakemore
6 oclock
it
It seems to Peter, uh, take very fast.
It seems to Peter, uh, take very fast on me.
You're seeing something.
You're seeing something like I'm seeing something else
anyway.
the police department
the most uh racist city in the United States the city of
Chicago look at the police force 50%
Chicago. Look at the police force 50% white 40% Hispanic.
and 10% black.
They say the blacks can't pass a psychological.
And you know, you can be a policeman and not even.
And you know, you can be a policeman and not even a citizen
of the United States.
of the United States of America.
these jobs
These jobs start with 85,000 and in the year you can.
These jobs start with 85,000 and in the year, you can
easily get make a 100,000.
easily get make a 100,000 think about the money.
and the
And the Hispanics are getting that money and getting on the
porch. They just had a graduation class and the whites are
getting that money.
getting that money or what about the black the best.
getting that money or what about the black the best
community police when you have black policeman in.
living in these wars black Wards of you talking about
Living in these wars black Wards of you talking about the
shot.
the
The police will live in the war go to church in the war.
children go to school in that war. That's good.
children go to school in that war. That's good Community
policeman.
so you
So, you know, you can be a policeman also and be a member
of the pooper claim.
It's something wrong here and we have these black.
sitting here all
In high places they don't represent us.
they represent themselves and this is
They represent themselves and this is a like Communists
Channel. I was just talking.
Channel. I was just talking loud. Why do you say that?
Because it's a 1 party system. They only have 1 Republican
here no check and bounce.
here no check and bounce 69 in each other all of them.
bad the black ones.
the white ones the Hispanic the age all
The white ones the Hispanic the age all members of the same
democratic.
Democratic machine and you think you can vote them out. You
didn't put them in the machine.
didn't put them in the machine slated them.
So
Mr. Blakemore, what did you major in when you went to
college?
college a history and government political side? Well, what
was in this book?
They not they didn't teach me that.
They didn't teach me how good.
They didn't teach me how government don't work.
for black people.
especially for black people something is
Especially for black people something is evil here
something is corrupt here.
Something is corrupt here. Something is racist here and you
think that you can pass ordinance and to correct this mess
the the man I already said he don't want no more of these
Hot Shots.
Hot Shots or whatever spots. It's it's that gonna prevent.
crime the young lady said her company. She's down here by
money.
She's about money and I'm about Justice for black people
black.
black people.
Thank you. Um, thank you, Mr. Blakemore.
our next speaker
Our next speaker is Mr. Anthony.
p
P Mr. Anthony
Thank you, sir. Thank you. Good morning. Um City Hall.
a team members of the Chicago City Hall committee on police
and fire
having lived in over 36 States. I've encountered. Excuse
me.
a spectrum of policing agencies from commend.
a spectrum of policing agencies from commendable to
downright deplorable.
Yet.
Yet amidst this very landscape. I retain faith in the
potential.
potential of Chicago Police Department for our glasses.
Always have 4. However, there are urgent.
always have 4. However, there are Urgent matters that
demand our attention the fire department the backbone of
our community safety.
our community safety deserves a raise equivalent with their
invaluable service.
invaluable service moreover their alarming expenditure of
$3 million every 3 days due to police Mis.
$3 million, every 3 days due to police misconduct payouts
is unconscionable.
on februari the 29th an alarming incident unfolded at
South Wabash where a peaceful conversation.
South Wabash, where a peaceful conversation with the quote
unquote peace officer was marred by a false report leading
to officers drawing.
to officers drawing guns on me this racial profiling and
misuse.
misuse of authority must cease.
similarly on Wednesday on March 28th across from Xavier
warde School located a few blocks from mag Mile and polo
store officers wore as Junior and Duke of the 018 District
near North violate my
near North violated my civil rights based on a baseless
report this traumatic ordeal.
report this traumatic ordeal spurred by someone's malicious
falsehoods.
falsehoods underscores the urgent need for accountability.
And reformed by the grace of God Almighty I escaped unarmed
thanks to the recording on.
thanks to the recording on my Samsung Z flip 4 which held
those accountable.
those accountable but relying solely on technology is not a
solution. We must address the systemic issues at hand. I
refuse to remain silent in the face of such system.
injustices. We cannot afford to lose another black man.
Another human being to the wickedness within our
another human being to the wickedness within our current
policing system. It's crucial to acknowledge.
policing system. It's crucial to acknowledge that not all
police officers are bad. It is a presence.
police officers are bad. It is a presence of Bad actors
these riding.
these riding apples that tarnish the system originally
designed to maintain control over slaves and capture those
who sought Freedom during the dark chapters of American.
History particularly, the era of slavery. Jim Crow is alive
and well
Chicago's priorities are clearly not in order.
Chicago's priorities are clearly not in order while debates
rage over the location of sports stadiums.
Our sidewalks crumble our bridges deteriorate and sexually
do
of doable Lakeshore Drive sink. Meanwhile many police oper.
operate as Vigilantes our public transit system is plagued
by outdated trains malfunctioning equipment. Our train
lines serving as drug dealers.
lines serving as drug dealers Havens.
the closure of malls and deployment of National Guard to
patrol New York City subway system highlight the urgent
need for comprehensive reform in reallocation of resources.
towards addressing these pressing issues facing our city. I
vote for an age requirement for police and fire. So as
can pass the guard pass the torch and also,
can pass the guard pass the torch and also I vote to have
shot spot and not a ward level, but an entire city level
may be nationally. Thank you for your attention. I implore
you to take deck.
you to take decisive action to ensure a safer.
more Equitable future for all
More Equitable future for all Chicago residents. Thank you.
Thank you, sir.
We do have uh, 1 online.
We do have uh, 1 online speaker.
Peter we have you for
uh, yes, I'm here. Thank you Peter. You have 3 minutes.
Thanks for joining us.
Thank you.
First I'd like to recognize the 6 members.
First I'd like to recognize the 6 members of this committee
who are also members of the new.
who are also members of the new Un-American. Let's reignite
McCarthyism caucus.
Alderman and Sham Patriots. Tell Theo Cardona and nepalan
Alder women and champ Patriots table.
Alder women and champ Patriots tabarez and Silverstein and
Alder.
all their person and champ Patriots pisado.
I note that Alderman Moore wrote this proposed.
I note that Alderman Moore wrote this proposed ordinance
Alderman Moore often highlights his past business
experience and connections to the religious world.
Alderman Moore your religious assoc
Alderman Moore your religious Associates would find your
deceits in this ordinance shameful quote the current
superintendent of police.
superintendent of police has stated that shot spotter is a
necessary tool.
necessary tool based on what there's no empirical evidence.
Let's say that the superintendent and 3 form.
Let's say that the superintendent and 3 former soups were
all invested in shots butter stock.
all invested in shots butter stock that would explain their
opinion. You need to do better Alderman more than just
repeat baseless opinions.
quote unilateral decision how many un
Quote unilateral decision how many unilateral decisions have
you passed in?
you passed in this committee and in Council show your work?
Alderman Moore? Not your bias.
quote responsibility to secure as many resources should we
get em wraps for all police officers to drive around in?
What is the upper limit of the cost?
What is the upper limit of the cost quote to secure as many
resources and quote 4.
resources and quote 4 billion 5 billion 10 billion
quote mayor put at risk unquote. He's a straight out live
Alderman Moore do better.
Quote usurp the will of the city council.
quote usurp the will of the city council and quote is a
straight out lie Alderman Moore do better.
quote piece of technology needed needed
again you have
Again, you have no proof that shot spotter is effective
much less.
much less needed all of them and more your business
mentors.
would notice your abject failure to make a business.
would notice your abject failure to make a business case.
BPD has had every opportunity.
BPD has had every opportunity to collect shot spotter data
from its initial use.
from its initial use to now CPD failed.
Sound thinking has had every opportunity to present.
Sound thinking has had every opportunity to present to us
peer-reviewed scientific studies.
Shot spotter failed, please. Stop deceiving fear-mongering
and lying alderman.
and lying Alderman Moore your disappointing your religious
Associates.
Associates, please stop fear-mongering alderman.
Associates, please stop fear-mongering Alderman Moore your
disappointing your business mentors make a reasoned
business case.
Your position seems to be let's use the city's hyp.
segregated Wards to gerrymander areas in which a digital
divining Rod shot spotter.
divining Rod shot spotter gives police a special excuse to
unlawfully.
unlawfully harass people.
This is not a public safety.
This is not a public safety plan and getting back to the
Alders and champ.
Alders and champ Patriots in this committee. Paraphrasing
Alderman Moore's ordinance.
Alderman Moore's ordinance quote. No Alders shall be
penalized for speaking.
penalized for speaking out against the increasingly fascist
and authoritarian Israeli government's crime against
humanity including apartheid war crimes and genocide nor
for recognizing the First Amendment rights of others. Thank
you, sir.
Uh, thank you Peter and let me thank all public speakers
today.
today, uh for joining us and speaking.
today, uh for joining us and speaking, um doing our public
comment section. Uh, let me recognize all also. Um,
Alderman Curtis for purposes of a quorum also
recognize. Um all the woman Dao
recognize. Um, all the woman Dao Alderman bill
Alderman Lopez
alderwoman Scott and alderwoman and I'll hop inworth.
alderwoman Scott and alderwoman and I'll hop inworth um
being present today as well.
I'm eating you should have.
I'm eating you should have received the rule 45 report that
was sent out on March 18.
was sent out on March 18, 2024, uh for a meeting that was
conducted.
conducted on March 18 20124. Are there any questions and
comment?
comments regarding the move 45 report?
I there being no questions and comments. Can I get a motion
for the app?
for the approval of the report?
So moved by
Anthony Apollo tan
Anthony Apollo Tano, all those in favor say I I all those
opposed nay and opinion of the chair the eyes have it the
rule 45 report has been approved. There are 2 items on the
agenda. Um item number.
agenda. Um item number 1 is the amendment of Municipal Code
section.
section 2152.
section 215241010 by modifying the mandatory mandatory
Rhett.
retirement age for police officers item number.
retirement age for police officers item number 2 is the
substitute ordinance of 2024.
substitute ordinance of 2024 D7 The Substitute order
calling.
calling on mayor Brandon Johnson to Remedy by Ward.
calling on mayor Brandon Johnson to Remedy by Ward Choice
whether a removal to remove sound thinking shot spotter
surveillance technology with other assurances.
and advanced notification to affected Wards City Council
Members choosing to retain this surveillance technology. I
was like reading the book. Um,
the first item
item number 1 the amendment of the municipal code 2-1. I'm
sorry 2 Dash 152410. There's a substitute ordinance. Um
that was submitted to all members last week can
that was submitted to all members last week. Can I get a
motion to accept the substitute ordinance into committee?
so moved by Alderman Curtis
all those in favor. I I all those opposed nay.
all those in favor. I I all those opposed nay and the pain
of the chairs the eyes have it this sub.
of the chairs the eyes have it the substitute. Um ordinance
is before the committee. Um,
I am the chief sponsor on this matter.
I am the chief sponsor on this matter and um if we have any
questions.
questions and comments, um, but with regard to our last
meeting, uh,
After having our fire department.
after having our fire department our firemen and our Police
Department before the panel. Um, there was a request
request by our fire department, um and concerns by our fire
department whether or not uh this
movement of the mandatory retirement age
Movement of the mandatory retirement age would benefit our
fire our firemen.
fire our firemen, um at the consideration of their
requests. Um, and that's the request from the Union as well
as from the fire department. Um, we will move forward we
will not be moving forward rather, uh with a change to a
modifying of the mandatory retirement age for our firemen
however in speaking with our um,
However in speaking with our um with the Chicago Police
Department as well as um,
Department as well as um members of the department and and
the um, uh, their fop
Which is their union rep.
which is their union representative, um all were in support
and so I'm moving forward with this ordinance today, uh
with regard to our police officers, uh, anyone wishing to
speak.
speak on this item
alderman
Alderman the politano
Mr. Chairman, I'll make mine very very brief. Um, I want to
commend you on this.
commend you on this, uh this ordinance. I I believe the way
that you construct.
that you constructed this originally and brought it to
discussion.
discussion and how it works or how it doesn't work for each
party or each department.
party or each department and then come to the positive
conclusion of 1 wants to be in 1 dozen. I think that is a
brilliant way.
brilliant way a show of how this is supposed to be done in
committee and I appreciate your work and effort as well as
this committee's work working effort.
this committee's work working effort on this ordinance. So
I commend you on this great job. Thank you. Alderman.
anyone else
alderman, pisado
Thank you chairman. Thanks for calling in repeat also.
chairman just 1 question when I when is it supposed to go
on to affect? Um, the effective date is the Orden
on to affect. Um, the effective date is the ordinance is
retroactively to December.
retroactively to December, uh 31st of 2023.
How can I go into effect?
How can I go into effect retroactively of somebody retired
because they were forced off.
because they were forced off they come back we won't have
to address that issue with um with the law department on
how it would affect the retroactive.
how it would affect the retroactive person. Okay, but those
that retire that was my only issue if it's rep if it's if
it goes December 31st.
it goes December 31st, 2023 and somebody left, you know.
December 31st because they aged out.
December 31st because they aged out then can they come
back?
Yeah in historic.
Yeah and historically on the department. Um those that are
we've had members on the department before that are retired
and have come back on the job. Um how that affect the
pension, uh, of course the pension stopped.
pension, uh, of course the pension stopped and would be
stopped. It would not be able to draw a pension.
stopped. It would not be able to draw a pension while they
were back in service as a police officer. Um, also,
there if they had drawn their pension it would affect their
their seniority as well, um with regard to whether
they were senior members. So, um the item or the issue as
to whether or not and how it would affect them.
to whether or not and how it would affect them could be
discussed with um with HR as well as the Law Department.
Okay, thank.
Okay, thank you. Okay.
Any further questions?
Yes chairman. Hello.
Alderman Ervin
Yes a real quickly. Um what?
Yes a real quickly. Um what changes were made from the
initial ordinance to the sub?
initial ordinance to the substitute ordinance number 1 and
number 2?
number 2 is go ahead. Go ahead with that the
number 2 is go ahead go ahead with that the the difference.
Um, um section B has been removed.
Um, um section B has been removed with regard to the fire
department, uh section.
department, uh section B in the ordinance allows for the
mandatory age for the firemen to be raised to 65.
mandatory age for the firemen to be raised to 65 as well.
But uh in section A
But uh in section a um,
section A is with regard to the
Section A is with regard to the police officers. So the the
text.
text from section B is omitted and will stand as as it.
already is accepted into
U our our ordinances
Okay, my second question was um what?
Okay. My second question was um what Financial implication
does this have?
does this have to both the city and the pension fund?
does this have to both the city and the pension fund by
making this adjustment?
And bye bye financial implications what?
And bye bye financial implications. What do you mean, uh,
whether or not the city would be losing money or does this
I would does the save money for the city. Does it incur
additional liability for?
additional liability for the pension fund those courses my
understanding was that some aerial aerial?
understanding was that some aerial aerial work was to be
done around this?
done around this subject and I I never saw anything going
on. So I didn't know if it had been completed or what the
status of that was.
No.
No, I don't. I don't uh Alderman, I don't know whether the
actu.
actuary work was done. But um as far as pension relief, I
think you know, they changed the dis ordinance.
think you know, they changed the dis ordinance as as was
testified at our last hearing. Uh, we have approximately
2,000 officers that uh, we are short on the department now
that are actually drawing pensions and we are currently
losing police officers that are able to draw the pensions.
Uh, and so I think it's actually damn
Uh, and so I think it's actually damaging, uh,
damaging our position with
Damaging our position with our pension system as we
continue.
to retire officers and draw the pensions.
necessarily hiring officers so in
necessarily hiring officers. So in essence, we're not
keeping up with attrition and the the the as if that were
to continue our pension system would continue to be
damaged. Um,
so that's my concern.
so that's my concern there and and I believe that this
ordinance does help our our pension system by allowing our
police officers.
police officers to remain on the job those that wish to do.
So as a as I say, it's not mandatory, but those that wish
to do so
Would be able to do so until there's 65 years of.
would be able to do so until there's 65 years of age.
Okay. Yeah, I understand.
Okay. Yeah, I understand it, but nobody ran a calculation
on this I
on this. I find that hard to believe that no 1 from
Finance.
No 1 from tension. Nobody ran a couch to see what this.
impact would be.
Um, not not as of yet.
Um, not not as of yet ultimate.
Um
I I understand.
I I understand the logic. I understand your uh thinking uh,
I don't want us to be uh, Pennywise.
I don't want us to be uh, Penny wise and pound foolish on
this. Um,
this, um with a retroactive date of
um, December 31st of 2023
Um December 31st of 2023. I'm not sure if we should move on
this without.
this without getting a clear Financial implication as to
what's going to happen.
what's going to happen, uh with this particular Orden.
what's going to happen, uh with this particular ordinance.
Um, I'm and and I'm and I don't know.
Um, I'm and and I'm and I don't know why this this
calculation has not been done. So um, and I I was under the
impression that it was going.
impression that it was going to be done.
but um
I think you know I I think when you also look at you know,
those that are standing on.
those that are standing on their job until 65. Um, you're
not you're not talking a whole lot of folks, you know, you
were talking at most a handful of people that remain on the
job until 65 and and so uh any any data, um, and I
understand your position as well, but any data,
understand your position as well, but any data would be
minimal in this case. Um, I can tell you probably by the
time we're from December.
time we're from December to now, uh, there's been less than
probably 10 officers that have been mandatory and retired.
Um,
and so I I think any data that we can and we could
certainly do that for you. But any data would would perhaps
be minimal because most off.
be minimal because most offices are not staying on the job
until 63.
until 63 years of age or or or um in this case even
want to stay until 65 most are taking that retirement at 55
years of age. Um, and once they've maxed out so um, but I
can certainly look at to getting that data for you as well.
Okay, I I appreciate that. And because I'm not.
Okay, I I appreciate that. And because I'm not in the room.
Is there anybody from from the fop or from?
Is there anybody from from the fop or from finance that is
there that could potentially speak to?
there that could potentially speak to uh the numbers or
any?
um, you know, any idea financially what this may look like.
um, you know, any idea financially that this may look like
okay.
any other
Any other questions?
No, that's that's it. I just wanted if there's somebody
there that may be able to speak to that from the from the
Department or from banana to from fop or from anywhere.
Okay, I'll get you that information. Um alderman.
Okay. Oh.
Okay. Oh, oh, no. No. No, I'm sorry. I apologize. I I
couldn't hear you.
couldn't hear you very clearly. No, no 1's here from the
LCPD today.
They were here last week. I mean last meeting.
Okay. All right. Thank you much. I thank you.
alderwoman Lee
thank you chairman. Uh, just wanted to
Thank you chairman. Uh, just wanted to comment on uh this.
uh revised the substitute ordinance. Um, I want to Echo
everybody else's comments earlier about just the
appreciation for this. I spoke the last time this was up as
I have actual constituents who are impacted by this, um who
want to continue to serve but because of their age, um
wouldn't be able to so um app
wouldn't be able to so, um appreciate the the um edits that
were made to this listening to the fire department on their
concerns.
concerns, uh, and I will look forward to supporting this
today. Thank you.
Thank you. All the woman Lee alderwoman Taylor.
followed by Alderman Lopez
Followed by Alderman Lopez. Thank you chairman. I'm in
agreement with uh chairman Ervin about
agreement with uh, chairman Ervin about having some
information about what is the what is the actual cost?
Um of us taking this action, and I'm a know.
Um of us taking this action and I'm a know if we don't have
the information.
Thank you chairman. Thank you. Alderwoman Lee.
Alderman Lopez
Thank you. Cheers.
Alderman Lopez
Thank you chairman and good morning.
Thank you chairman and good morning members of the
committee morning. Um
Though. I'm not a member. I just wanted to ask a question
if I met with regard.
if I met with regards to.
section
D of the ordinance
um, is that something that needs to actually be split since
this whole section is predicated on the original?
this whole section is predicated on the original that all
persons uh to whom this ordinance.
persons, uh to whom this ordinance applies shall be at the
age of 63. Sorry, excuse me. Does this section need to be
bifurcated since it says all persons to whom this ordinance
applies shall be retired upon attainment.
applies shall be retired upon attainment of age 63, and
that was inclusive.
was inclusive of both departments police and fire. And now
if we are separating them is that need to read and perhaps
a lot of Department could answer this all person.
a lot of Department could answer this all persons to whom
this ordinance Supply shall be retired upon.
the age designated
aforementioned as opposed to
back door requiring retirement at 65 for firemen.
I'm I'm trying to understand your question. So so Section 5
54 between a police department and a fire department,
correct? Because this is the end.
correct? Because this is the end of the mandatory
appointment and retire retirement ages for police officers.
and firefighters and the end of this section in the
municipal.
municipal code says that everyone upon which this ordinance
is.
is covered, uh, shall be retired.
is covered, uh, shall be retired at the age of 65.
So does this need to be separated between the 2 departments
since we now have 2?
since we now have 2 distinct?
retirement ages for the police and fire departments
Yeah, I don't I don't I don't think it needs to be
bifurcated. Um
Or does it need to be just elim?
or does it need to be just eliminated since now this
section no longer applies because we have 2 distinct. Well
it it it would still.
it it would still apply to both police and fire. Um, but
don't I don't believe it needed it needs to be bifur.
Um
I'm trying to read through.
I'm trying to read through it to um understand it more
clearly as to whether or not.
clearly as to whether or not it could stand as written or
bifur.
or or
Or or as Alderman D just said or removed since we now have
2 different.
2 different retirement ages for 2 different departments.
We can we can bifurcate it because if if and I understand
what you're saying, um
the original language
The original language 63 that's that's a part of section.
the original language 63 that's that's a part of section,
um section d
as universal would would apply to both of them, but since
we have uh a for the police department at 65 and be uh with
this with the fire,
this with the fire department is 63 they be there may be a
need to bifurcate those or either um clear
need to bifurcate those or either, um, clear up the
language to say that it is applies upon.
language to say that it is applies upon, uh attainment of
the age 65 as it.
the age 65 as it relates to um, our Police Department or
police officers and 63 as it relates to our
um
as it relates to our uh, our firemen that will retire at
As it relates to our uh, our firemen that will retire at 60
65.
or 63 rather
Or 63 rather our chairman. I I would probably entertain a
motion for someone on the committee to just amend on its
face.
face that it say all persons to whom this ordinance applies
shall be retired upon.
the age set in this section
okay, we will amend the
Okay, we will amend the ordinance. Um
We take a few minutes well.
We take a few minutes. Well, I'm I'm not going to go into
recess because we do have another item.
recess because we do have another item that I can call and
then I'll recall this item.
then I'll recall this item for uh expediency of time.
Any other questions? Yeah alderman.
Any other questions? Yeah Alderman bill.
Mr. Chairman, um, I mean you can accept the amendment and
have it voted on and then uh, the language can be clarified
with the law Department.
with the law Department after we after it's passed. So
there's no need to hold it.
Can I get a motion? Can I get a motion from?
Can I get a motion? Can I get a motion from someone on the
committee? I appreciate that all of them. Um, so moved.
committee? I appreciate that all of them. Um, so moved by
well, let me clarify the motion first.
well, let me clarify the motion first, uh
Can I get a motion to accept?
Can I get a motion to accept the amendment of The
Substitute ordinance?
Substitute ordinance, um as written to add the language, um
Substitute ordinance, um as written to add the language, uh
all persons to whom the ordinance applies shall be retired
upon the attainment of the age set forth in section A and
section B, respectively
section B respectively of section 2-15.
section B respectively of section 2152 D40.
so moved by Alderman Cardona all those in favor
So moved by Alderman Cardona all those in favor. Say I
I all those opposed.
I all those opposed nay in the opinion I of the chair the
eyes have it.
That language will be amended and each of you will.
That language will be amended and each of you will receive
a copy of it.
Any other questions on this?
Any other questions on this item?
Alderman Curtis. Yes. Yeah, I just stated. Uh, let's say
that.
fire retire at the age of 58 and already maxed out.
fire retire at the age of 58 and already maxed out maxed
out and and left they'll be able to return correct.
Um, say that
Um say that I said the last part again Alder if they're
maxed out maybe at the age of 58. We'll say maxed.
maxed out maybe at the age of 58, we'll say maxed out and
they left the department.
Uh, will they be able to return?
because the Retro date will be 20, uh, 2023 know it's it
it's um Alderman they would it would only be able to
according to the alderman according to the alderman.
retroactive to December to December. Okay? Yes.
retroactive to December to December. Okay? Yeah. Yes, so if
they retired a mandatory retired, um at 63
After December, then they would be able to return.
after December, then they would be able to return to the
Department.
Got it. Thank.
Got it. Thank you. Yeah, thank you.
Any other questions?
I there be no further questions. Um, can I get a motion to
approve items 1 of the agenda? Um substitute order in 2023?
65726
Vice chair Robinson second is the motion all those in
favor. Say I
I all those opposed.
I all those opposed nay and opinionative chairs. I have it.
Um, this might this matter passes and we'll be reported out
at the next meeting of the city council, which I believe is
April.
April 17th.
the next
The next item on the agenda is
substitute order 2024 07775
substitute order 2024 07759
The Substitute order calling on mayor Brandon Johnson to
Remedy by Ward Choice whether to remove sound thinking
slash shot spotter surveillance technology with other Asar
assurances and advanced notifications to affect the ward
council members choosing to retain
this surveillance technology
um the chief sponsor of this
um, the chief sponsor of this matter is um Alderman David
Moore Alderman Moore, would you like to um,
Moore Alderman Moore. Would you like to uh, begin a
presentation on this? But before we do that, I apologize.
Let me take a second to bring out our Witness.
Let me take a second to bring out our witness on this
matter as well.
Mr. Uh Mr. Flores he's in the bank
I'm joining us today.
I'm joining us today is is noi Flores the assistant
director.
director of strategic initiatives division with the Chicago
Police.
Police Department.
Also, the chair recognizes Alderman Gilbert viegas.
Also, the chair recognizes Alderman Gilbert viegas joining
us today.
as president
Thank you for joining us today, Mr. Flores again. Uh, Mr.
Flores is the assistant director strategic initiatives div.
division, um with the Chicago Police Department. I hope I
get that correct. Yes. That's correct. Good morning,
everyone. Um, Alderman Moore
You thank you so much chairman. Thank you so much for
calling.
calling um this um item up.
calling um this um item up in committee. Um as
many know back in febuary, um the administration
Many know back in febuary, um the administration, um,
unilaterally made a decision.
unilaterally made a decision, um to um and shot spotter.
unilaterally made a decision, um to um and shot Spotter and
um what this
and that and and let me point out. Um, that's even with the
current superintendent of police as well as 3 former, um
city of Chicago.
city of Chicago superintendent put all stated that sound.
Um,
um, thinking shot spotters and necessary tool for the city.
of Chicago as it looks to reduce to help.
of Chicago as it looks to reduce to help combat to reduce
and um combat crime
um
we've heard from
We've heard from different um voices.
We've heard from different um voices in this but I want to
point out that it's the responsibility.
point out that it's the responsibility of the duly elected
ultimate secure.
ultimate secure as many resources as possible to uplift.
protect the community.
and just
And just as communities that do not want sound, um thinking
shot.
shot Spotter and their Awards. Um,
other words should have the ability, um to decide whether
they want to keep the residents safe. Um,
as the wars utilizing shot
As the wars utilizing shot spotter versus the ones who do
not want to use it. So that's a a
that's a proposal if you will that we need to discuss and
talk about but what this ordinance does and the order does.
talk about but what this ordinance does and the order does
is really ask about collect.
is really ask about collecting more data during this time
frame. Um
frame, um that the mayor um has extended it. Um 1 of the
things we have to talk about even an extend.
things we have to talk about even an extending it to
through septembar.
is how
Is how we know it was all it was supposed to expire I
believe it was februari.
believe it was februari 17th.
um, but the administration deck
um, but the administration decided to extend it through the
um, DNC. Um, I want to go on record to say if it's um works
either work.
either work it it works so it don't
and if it if it if it's
working for the DNC then it need to work for um the
constituents.
constituents here in the city of Chicago so during this.
time.
And people can read. Um, the
and people can read um the um order during these remaining
months we want um, the Chicago Police.
months we want um, the Chicago Police, um to collect data
showing um shot spot.
showing um shot spotters accuracy. Um,
showing, um shot spotters accuracy, um there or performance
against the core service level commitments to the Chicago,
um contract, um during the remaining
um contract, um, during the remaining months of sounding a
shot spot once Chicago Police.
Shots part 1 Chicago Police to collect data showing the
quantity of shot spot alerts that have no corresponding
call to 911 where
um, I'm doing the remaining, um months of the sound
thinking shot.
thinking shot police trying to collect data showing the
quantity of shot spot alert.
quantity of shot spot alerts that enable officers to render
Aid to Connaught victim.
Aid to Connaught victims. Um, where there were no Congress
corresp.
corresponding call to 911 during the remaining months of
sound.
sound spot of Chicago Police Department collect data to
compare the average response.
compare the average response time for arriving on the scene
of a shooting.
of a shooting when initiated by a citizen called to 911.
versus when initiated by a shot spot alert and
remaining months of sound, uh sounding Shots by the
Police Department collect data.
number of shell casings recovered as a result of shot
Spotter and and doing the remaining months of sounding
Shots by the Chicago Police.
Shots by the Chicago Police Department collect that on the
number of weapons recovered by a shot.
number of weapons recovered by a shot spotter alert and
doing the remaining months sound thing.
doing the remaining months sound thing Shots by the Chicago
Police Department clack data on the number of arrests.
Police Department clack data on the number of arrests
resulted from shot spot alert. You want to remain
months of sounds stinking shots Police Department.
months of sounds stinking shots Police Department post up
above requested data on a city portal.
and
during the remaining months. Um, that's Chicago Police
Department.
Department produced a monthly report. Which chairman. I'm
really, um willing to amend and through some discussion.
that the report. Um,
that the report um be uh produced through the Inspector
General.
General so that there's no um,
There's no.
some view of
Some view of any conflict. Um
further
Further in this order. Um, it's important that no ottoman
should be penalized for standing up and requesting to keep
his or her neighborhood safe through the Los.
his or her neighborhood safe through the loss of committee
or Council leadership loss of Project funding or any other
punitive measure by this Administration and and even more
importantly any decisions any decisions.
importantly any decisions any decisions to remove any
violence prevention funding including sounding shot spotter
from any War.
from any warship should notify this city council in
advance.
and hold a meeting of the Public Safety Committee prior.
the removal and with a full vote of the city council. Um, I
I believe
and I think um many of my colleagues agree with me that a
unilateral decision about keeping our um Community safe
shouldn't be made but should be made in collaboration as
our um,
our um may always talks about a collaboration with the
city.
council. Thank you chairman.
Thank you. Alderman.
Thank you, Alderman Moore.
any questions from
Committee members or those that are not committee.
that have joined us today.
I don't see any hands raised from committee members so
alderman.
Alderman bill.
Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Good morning morning.
or you're the
Data expert for the police department, correct. I'm
familiar.
familiar with the data at the police department. Well.
let me just say I I really wish that the Police
Superintendent was here.
Superintendent was here, um knowing that he is a huge
advocate.
advocate for uh shot Spotter and um, you know, he looks at
it as a
positive tool that is needed to help and Aid the the police
department.
department in fighting crime. So, um based on the data that
you see
Uh, I understand that you were kind of.
restricted uh with the reporting on how
Restricted uh with the reporting on how data is being
collected and reported out. Is that correct?
Uh, no, I don't think so. I think and to give a little
background to uh, I'm not just the the Strategic initiative
division.
division is responsible for the data kind of processes of
the police department. But uh, uh the background of why
maybe I'm here is that I also was 1 of the first analysts
in those sdsc rooms that opened in the
in those sdsc rooms at open in the city when I was working
with the crime lab. So, uh, probably my guess is that my
familiarity with the shot spotter technology.
familiarity with the shot spotter technology and its role
out is another reason, uh, maybe that I'm here. Um, I don't
believe there's been any limitations. Maybe the ask hasn't
been made. We're usually very uh willing to give data when
requested whether it's by Freedom of Information Act or or
other means but um, I don't know, uh, I'm not aware of
other means but um, I don't know I'm not aware of any well
from my understanding. Um,
from my understanding, um, the people on the other side
shot spot are saying basically, uh, the data is not being
collected and reported.
collected and reported out correctly to show the effect.
effectiveness of shot spotter. So what is not being
reported out of what's not being collected in your opinion.
To show that it's being effective on why.
department support shot spotter. Um, we collect the vital
range of data some of the points. I was point out by the
other ottoman is already collect.
many shot spotter events how many alerts
recoveries arrests, uh, life-saving.
recoveries arrests, uh, life-saving events or kind of uh
situations all that is already collect.
situations all that is already collected, uh with respect
to presentation. That's just
discussed and kind of like moved through.
that would come above my
okay, so basically you
Okay. So basically you only report out was asked of you or
you know, correct, correct? All right, I get that. So
therefore if I need data, that's not going to support child
spotter. I can request that data. Correct. If you want a
data, that's not I mean we are very we respond to every for
every request or if I can ask for data that shows it works
I can ask for that as well. Absolutely. Yeah. All right.
All right. Um.
All right, um knowing that we had a very violent.
All right, um knowing that we had a very violent weekend,
uh based.
uh based on the a number of shots.
That were that took place over the weekend. Do you know how
many?
uh of those shots
Uh of those shots where there was no 911 call to police for
service.
Uh for this weekend specifically know.
Uh for this weekend specifically know what I could tell
you. Is that based on historical kind of uh numbers and it
I I can't I apologize.
I I can't I apologize for not being uh precise, but I would
say we typically don't receive a corresponding call. Uh,
say we typically don't receive a corresponding call, uh for
about 40 60% of the time I should say more or less and
that's any call.
that's any call you're saying because I don't want to put
words in my mouth. I want you to so you're saying 60% of
shots.
shots fired in the city of Chicago. There's no 911.
Place shot spotters shot spotter specifically, right? Um,
and that's any 911 call but it gets a little more you could
be very precise with it. Did we get a corresponding shots
fired call? Did we get a corresponding person shot?
Did we get a corresponding uh shops on view call. Those are
kind of different events. That would kind of maybe change
those.
call that means it could be anything. So
have called in as a robbery in progress or something and
again, I don't have uh specific numbers, but that's
something we could be responsive with through the chair.
something we could be responsive with through the chair,
right? So knowing that time is of the essence.
Right? So knowing that time is of the essence. Um, if a
person uh is subject to a gunshot
Uh, what's the average?
Uh, what's the average delay in a 911 call?
Uh, what's the average delay in a 911 call versus when shot
spotter picks it up.
Um again, I apologize for not being very specific I would
say that most of the time shot spotters the first alerts.
in about 75 to 80% of the
In about 75 to 80% of the calls and then what's the average
delay on?
delay on when a 911 calls in to support that shot?
delay on when a 911 calls in to support that shot spotter
alert. I'm not exactly sure that but it's definitely it's
it's you are made a guy. Come on man you the dates guy?
Come on, man. I did not come I didn't get a big.
Come on, man. I did not come. I didn't get a big head heads
up for this unfortunately. So I I do apologize. Look, let
me take let me just say this I and and I appreciate you
being here.
but
we as elected officials are charged with getting to
bottom of what works and what don't what doesn't work.
we're trying to get to the bottom of why.
we're trying to get to the bottom of why we need to keep
shots Spotter and we need you all as the police department
who are supporters of shots. Bot to
who are supporters of shots. Bots to help us build our case
on why we need to retain.
on why we need to retain technology such as shot spotter.
Okay, and um, you know, so, you know, I need answers to
some of these questions. Absolutely and and again, I'd be
very responsive. I don't want to give you the wrong answer
that's what it is. So again,
today. I'm happy to give those
the chair or post it, but I do know that again, um 80%
the chair or post it, but I do know that again, um, 80% 75
to 80% of the time shot spotters first, uh, whether it's a
minute,
minute 2 minutes, uh, it is the first line that we get.
minute 2 minutes, uh, it is the first line that we get uh
for a shooting event, okay,
for a shooting event. Okay? All right. Well, Mr. Chairman,
it's it seems like you know, he's limited as far.
it's it seems like you know, he's limited as far as what we
can we can get out of them. Um, but you know, I know you're
supportive of shots Spotter and we need to do whatever is
necessary, uh to keep shots.
necessary, uh to keep shots spot in this city. Um, and I'm
I will tell you that I believe that the contract that was
signed.
signed, um a couple of weeks ago,
signed, um, a couple of weeks ago, uh is not a valid
contract. Uh, I don't think the administration have the
authority to get into that agreement because there was
already 2 extensions.
already 2 extensions and um, you know, this is basically a
new contract that should have gone through the procurement
process and it should have gone through um, you know, the
law department and come to us for ratification. Uh, there
was no RP
Is issued so nothing went out. Um, so you know, I really
believe that you know this contract that we're in going
into.
into september going through to septembar.
Again is not a valid contract. Not that I want to avoid.
Again is not a valid contract. Not that I want to avoid it,
but I think we need to do it right. I think it needs to be
RF.
rfpd. I think it needs to be um, you know companies have a
right to um,
right to um submit to that RFP and then it uh goes to
procurement and then then come to us. So, uh, I'm a big
supporter and I know majority of the people who have
shots powder and awards our supporters and we need to
this technology by all means necessary. So thank you Mr.
Chairman and thank you for being here today. Thank you.
Autumn.
Automobile Alderman Napolitano for point of information.
Yes. Thank you very much. I apologize. I don't mean to step
over. I just want to clarify.
over. I just want to clarify when Alderman deal asked you
um,
Um, um.
about how the accuracy of shot Spotter and you said that
there are 60% of the hits or detections by shot spotter.
there are 60% of the hits or detections by shot spotter do
are not followed up with a call of 911.
are not followed up with a call of 9111. Is that is that
what you said? I'm sorry. I just want to make sure I heard
that correctly.
that correctly more or less. Yes, and that depends again on
the type of call that we're talking about.
the type of call that we're talking about right if it's
another call that's very specific to shooting a
events. It might change a little bit.
And just quickly on that.
And just quickly on that 60% Is there a flip side of data
that you hold?
that you hold that shows for that 60% of report?
that you hold that shows for that 60% of reports to that.
It approves that it was an accur.
It approves that it was an accurate or a Bonafide shooting
or if that's fired. I did take a quick look and I think um,
because I imagine some question like this would come up
since about 20 Jan 2020. There's been about 1900, uh, like
events where there's somebody shot or some other kind of
criminal damage 19.
criminal damage 1900 events that don't have any
corresponding. Uh,
sort of speak 911 call and that's 1900 of
Sort of speak 911 call and that's 1900 of the 60% that are
not being called. Those are just 1900.
not being called. Those are just 1900 full stop events that
don't have any related call besides the shots spot Al.
and most of that's probably going to be shooting incident.
Thank you for that clarification. Thank you chairman. I
appreciate your
thank you.
Thank you. Alderwoman Scott.
chair
Chairman, good morning, everyone. So just like Alder.
Moore stated. We are aware that uh shot spotters is clearly
important to septembar.
important to september for delegates and elected officials,
but it's clearly not important for the everyday
constituent.
constituent, um that pay taxes and that live in these
communities.
communities, uh on Tuesday.
both you and I got a a message from our commander that um,
John Doe in his 20s sustained gunshot wounds to the head
neck and has pronounced on the scene. The incident is
recorded.
recorded under
not going to give out the rest of the information.
spider. Yes. Oemc calls. No no.
spider. Yes, oemc calls. No no 1 never called 911 and that
was Tuesday.
on yesterday
5:33 West Madison shot spotter. Yes. Oemc know
Again, they did. What was the address on the second event?
That was the 53?
That was the 5333 West Madison, which was a mass shooting.
which was a mass shooting another call, which was
yesterday.
didn't really get the address for that 1 but it was um
a male stable condition 3 Mal
a male stable condition 3 males 125 gunshot wound to the
ankle and West Suburban and stable number 4 25 gunshot
wound to the Head transport.
wound to the Head transported to Mount Sinai hospital in
critical condition.
critical condition shot spotter. Yes.
No, oh.
no oemc so I can go through a
No oemc so I can go through a I'm going through a long list
of text messages that we received.
of text messages that we received daily that shots are
fired in our community and oemc is never called so we know
that it work.
that it works because it's going to work for the DNC and
it's going to work.
it's going to work to protect what we call our elected
official.
officials.
That doesn't work for me. I support shots.
That doesn't work for me. I support shot spider shot spider
because I know what it does to help keep my community safe.
And right now I I would be less than a person that's
fighting for the people that are in.
fighting for the people that are in my community to not
stay that.
Maybe it is community.
Maybe it is community based but I don't know who made the
decision that it wasn't important. And those are the people
that don't live in those kind of violent.
that don't live in those kind of violent communities.
Again, our communities are the way that they are.
Again. Our communities are the way that they are because
it's a lack of investment you they don't care and so when
you invest in people and you invest in your community,
We wouldn't have.
we wouldn't have we would have to use spot shotter because
we'll have less.
we'll have less crime. We'll have more Young Folks working
right because that's when you invest in your people you
invest in your community and right now.
invest in your community and right now that's not what
we're getting and it doesn't look like I don't know what
we're going to get from this meeting, but it's
disheartening to sit here.
disheartening to sit here and we're supposed to have power
and have a lack of power.
And I just don't get it and I don't know, you know.
and I just don't get it and I don't know, you know, we all
work in these 50 Wards, but don't have a voice. Who are we
speaking for? We?
speaking for? We couldn't be speaking for our communities
because our communities are being.
because our communities are being they're not being
impacted the way that they need to be.
impacted the way that they need to be as far as it relates
to Crime. I just read something where I don't know if it
was District 2 only had 6 officers on site or something
that I read.
that I read That's
18
so, you know, I I would hate.
So, you know, I I would hate to see.
on a weekend like the DNC when most of my officers will
probably be pulled and we'll have a lack of resources and
then what will my community do then so when we when when
these big events go on and you have la la laaa that'll be
downtown.
downtown and all the resources are to downtown and then we
have these mass shootings that are on the west and the
south side.
People will just be laying out in the street like that.
People will just be laying out in the street like that poor
officer last year who just laid there in the grass.
officer last year who just laid there in the grass because
of she was found.
of she was found once the call of service came because of
Spot Shot or not because her neighbors called the police.
Ariana Preston, so, you know, I'm I'm very concerned as an
elected.
elected official the power that we have because right now
it just seems like Choice are just are just being made
without our um Authority and it it's just not it's it's
disheartening and I just wanted to go on.
disheartening and I just wanted to go on public record to
say that we have to do better as a community. We have to do
better for our people and we're the ones that speak for it
and we can't stop this. Um, I don't think that
a group of people who don't you the same way that they
taking police officers out of school that that board
doesn't represent.
doesn't represent North linedale that Chicago School Board.
doesn't
that doesn't represent North linedale.
That doesn't represent North linedale. They don't know the
hardship that these teachers have to face without having.
hardship that these teachers have to face without having a
lack of police in the in in the schools. Yeah. It's a
deterrent because they gonna
Go.
go on some of these schools and and see the the the lack of
protection these teachers have you know, it's everything.
that we have trying to build in this community. Everything
is being torn down.
is being torn down and I'm really disappointed. Thank you.
Thank you. Alderwoman. Um Scott I I
Thank you. Alderwoman. Um Scott, I I share I share your
concerns.
concerns and and um
ESP
especially those 2 Men shootings, um over the last
Especially those 2 Men shootings, um over the last few
days. Um, I believe over both mass shootings.
days. Um, I believe over both mass shootings were in Austin
and occurred.
and occurred on Saturday and Sunday of this past. Um,
and occurred on Saturday and Sunday of this past, um past
weekend 1 of them was actually 4:30 in the afternoon. Um,
and the other of course was 1 in the morning, um, but a
mass shooting with multiple shots fired, um,
and multiple victims
And multiple victims 1 shot in the head at 1 location. I
believe he's still in critical condition, but the other
believe he's still in critical condition. But the other
with a d Doha on the scene.
with a d Doha on the scene, uh, but neither neither call as
you mentioned.
uh, we're follow up with
Uh, we're follow up with a 911 call.
and the only reason
And the only reason that police arrived on scene. The only
reason was because of a shot.
reason was because of a shot spot alert.
now, uh in my opinion
Now, uh in my opinion, can we improve on what we already
have? Yes, we can.
uh, we can approve on that and and um by providing data, uh
by providing, um, tie-ins and and what I mean by tie-ins,
um shot spot is actually equipped and our gun detection
system.
system is actually equipped. Um,
As I've seen in other neighborhoods.
As I've seen in other neighborhoods in other cities, um
equipped with video.
equipped with video as well. I I know there was a concern
about
whether our officers are going to seeing blindly.
whether our officers are going to seeing blindly and in
many instances they are.
but we
But we do have the technology that would allow for not.
but we do have the technology that would allow for not only
the gun detection system to uh, determine whether there
were shots fired.
were shots fired at the scene.
But we also have the ability to immedi.
that
the gun detection system. Um
is much needed in their communities many of
Is much needed in their communities many of them will feel
less safe.
if it were
If it were removed, um because of the lack of response.
If it were removed, um because of the lack of response and
the um, 2 gun fire when you hear it every day.
the um, 2 gun fire when you hear it every day, um when you
hear it consistently, there's less of an uh, a willingness
to call it in.
to call it in because if they're seeing a lack of response,
um, they're not going to call it in so um I support
um, they're not going to call it in. So, um, I support your
premise and I uh, I certainly believe that um, our
communities better served, which hot
communities better served which hotspot a gun detection
system. I believe it's ultimate Lopez followed by all the
women down.
chairman
Sure.
Vice chair
Okay, I sure will. Go ahead Vice chair.
I I typically like to defer to my wife share first. Thank
you. Um
Alderwoman. Thank you.
um for
breaking down
what we all
are aware of
but on the
But on the record, so thank you very much. Um
chairman my request is that
certainly, we need more information from
CPD
um, secondly, I believe that we
Um, secondly, I believe that we need to have uh, the
company come.
company come shot spotter to be able to share with us.
company come shot spotter to be able to share with us as
you mentioned, uh, very clearly, um, how we can advance the
technology. Uh, so our officers are not going in the
Situation's blindly we
Situation's blindly. We know that's what they do on a
day-to-day basis.
day-to-day basis, but I think it's it's it's imperative for
us.
us to be able to figure out how to best help our officers
and so my request
And so my request is that I I know that
We all have things that do in our Ward.
We all have things that do in our Ward our Wards, but I
believe that we should ask.
believe that we should ask the the organization to come and
talk about that. Um again, how can we advance the data to
make sure that our officers are not going in the
situations? Blindly. I know there are some other challenges
with shot spotter as well. I think that we should address,
uh those challenges as well. Thank you. Thank you Vice
chair.
um Al
Um Alderman Lopez followed by alderwoman D.
Thank you chairman.
Looks like fireworks.
Looks like fireworks that is not fireworks. I know that is
19.
19 rounds being fired off in the 8th District.
1 of 123 different shootings that took place
we're here.
Chairman, as you know and is my colleagues have said to
discuss.
discuss gunshot detection technology, and I think
What's unfortunate is some people have tried to frame this
debate.
debate as about being a crime stopping tool it.
debate as about being a crime stopping tool it is not.
and
because it is not and because those that seek to end this
technology and in fact, let's be clear about something.
the people who seek to end this technology seek to end all
technology and police because they are not the least bit
interested about catching Criminal.
interested about catching criminals or stopping criminality
in our neighborhoods.
They look at this from a very Warp.
They look at this from a very warped sense of Duty.
that somehow
technology has become.
technology has become racist.
a sound
A sound detection technology. No different than the
microphone I'm speaking in is now racist.
cameras that catch license
cameras, that catch license plates of stolen vehicles is
now being pegged as racist.
and we've seen how
And we've seen how twisted this logic has become by stop.
stopping ring cameras from being used.
stopping ring cameras from being used in live police.
actions
Mr. Chairman and members of this committee
this technology is about responding when our citizens do
not and responding more.
not and responding more accurately when they do.
We talked we just talked about are.
We talked we just talked about Ariana Preston.
I have a
staff
Staff member and a friend whose cousin?
staff member and a friend whose cousin Salvador.
Rero was killed.
Rero was killed in pilson.
In the 25th w.
because he was on the curb for an hour.
because he was on the curb for an hour because nobody
bothered to call the police.
bothered to call the police when he was shot stopping
someone from carjacking someone else.
that is
That is the value of this 8 million Conte.
That is the value of this $8 million contract.
That we are putting on people's lives who we are not.
to help because nobody calls 911.
to help because nobody calls 911 and anymore.
And shame on.
And shame on everyone who thinks that that price tag is.
And shame on everyone who thinks that that price tag is too
high.
As we are sitting here right now.
I'm looking at the list of things.
That are requested and I've heard you say quietly.
at every question
we could get that information.
we could get that information to you through foyer.
I've heard you say that a few times. We don't need Foy.
I've heard you say that a few times. We don't need foyer.
You could just get us the information.
And I think what is most telling right now?
Is that if we want to talk about the accuracy, Mr.
Is that if we want to talk about the accuracy Mr. Chairman
of this technology?
Yes, it may not result.
yes, it may not result in convictions because
shockingly people who
Shockingly people who fire guns tend to run after they fire
guns.
But what doesn't leave with them?
Are the shell casings?
and I think that probably is the most pertinent ask
And I think that probably is the most pertinent ask in this
resolution, which is how many shell casings have.
resolution, which is how many shell casings have been
uncovered.
when there's an alert that officers respond to
and even then that number Mr. Chairman would be an accur.
because oftentimes we don't collect those casings. They
just get left.
just get left in the community as a reminder of what just
transpire.
transpired.
We have to stand.
We have to stand strong.
Whether it's on this committee or this.
Whether it's on this committee or this entire Council.
And knowing that this technology.
and knowing that this technology is about accurately and
pointing where someone is shooting in our neighborhoods.
What crime is going on and what victim lay on the floor
waiting?
waiting for someone to come and save them?
How many times?
How many times have not necessarily A rearrested someone
but have we?
but have we saved someone with shot spot or technology?
That's a question that needs to be asked as well.
This technology can always be better.
But we have to recognize what it is for.
But we have to recognize what it is for and is someone who
is there when this was?
is there when this was first brought about as part of the
sdsc rooms. We were there in the 7th District when it was 7
and 11. I think we're the first 2 if I'm not mistaken under
mayor e
mayor Emanuel.
expanding into the Ninth District and other districts
This is a tool that works to identify.
This is a tool that works to identify where the pro where
the shooters are at that.
the shooters are at that point in time.
none of us can
None of us can judge or gauge accurately as technology.
and regardless what people think
And regardless what people think technology is not out to
get you. It's
get you it's only there to tell you the story in real time.
and I think that
everything that is requested here chairman.
and this resolution because clearly
And this resolution because clearly the department did not
prepare its Emissary on these matters.
prepare its Emissary on these matters, then I would ask
that everything on here.
that everything on here provided through the chair.
so that
well, I should say as someone would kindly ask that
question on the committee. I forget I'm not on it, but if
someone on the Comm.
someone on the committee could kindly ask that everything
be provided.
be provided because this should be required.
it oh
I'm just making sure.
I'm just making sure yeah it is it is in order. Um, okay by
way of order rather.
way of order rather than in resolution.
Yeah, but I would ask.
Yeah, but I would ask that all of this be provided for not
just 2023, but 2022 202.
just 2023, but 2022 2021202020.
2019 and 2018 because I know you guys have this information.
So I request that for the last 6 years if you provided
through the chair.
and that this
Council take seriously that this shouldn't be
something that's just here or there because I have
colleagues whose words don't.
Have shot spotter whose districts don't have shots spotter.
Would have victims that would have been alive today if they
had.
had this should remain a Citywide policy. Otherwise, it's
on.
The hands of those who say no the lives that will be lost.
after this. Thank you chairman. Thank you. Alderman.
after this. Thank you chairman. Thank you Alderman and and
before um, because I'd like, um, Mr. Floor
before um, because I'd like, um, Mr. Flores to respond. Um
before I ask them to respond I
before I ask them to respond. I do want to be a complete
transparent. Um, I did ask him to join me at the last
minute and so, um, I apologize for reaching out to him. So
late, but
Yeah, um.
Yeah, um, but any any data that you're request.
Yeah, um, but any any data that you're requesting, uh,
please do so through the chair so that we can get that.
please do so through the chair so that we can get that for
you. Um, but also, you know, I I do want you to uh know
that he not that he didn't come prepared. Um, it's that I
was not prepared.
was not prepared and getting him here earlier than I did.
Okay. Um, I believe all the woman Dow. Oh, I'm sorry. Oh, I
was actually gonna say you probably covered everything. I
was gonna say and I wanted to apologize again. I know I
mentioned for you. I mentioned that because right now,
given the the short turnaround. It is the quickest Avenue,
but obviously,
but obviously that data is not something that
Don't want to give this just again. I had a very short
turnaround.
Yes. Yeah, and and I promised him if you come that.
Yes. Yeah, and and I promised him if you come that we won't
be too hard on him today. So, uh
I I said that all after all spoke. So uh chairwoman dial.
I I said that all after all spoke. So uh chairwoman dial
followed by Alderman Irving.
followed by Alderman Irving then alderwoman Taylor then
Alderman spaz.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um, I'm not a member of this
committee, but this was an important.
committee, but this was an important topic and I wanted to
be here to support.
be here to support Alderman Moore and I want to thank you
all the more for bringing this.
all the more for bringing this uh forward today. Um,
all the more for bringing this uh forward today, um want to
correct something that I said,
correct something that I said to Alderman Scott it was the
first district not the 18th District that had the issue
over the weekend. Um, I'm a supporter of uh shot spotter.
believe that uh, it works.
believe that uh, it works and in talking to uh, both
Patrol,
Uh street cops people in the admin.
Uh street cops people in the administration. Uh, they are
supportive of the technology.
um this
Um this weekend I had 3 people shot.
Um this weekend I had 3 people shot on uh, 40 the 4600
block.
block of State at 4:00 a.m. In the morning.
State Street at that location has no residence.
Uh
on that block on 1 side on the west side of the street is a
school.
school on the east side of the street is Parker.
school on the east side of the street is Parker's house, uh
Sausage Factory and a church and the only way that uh,
police responded to that was because the shot spotter alert
alerted them to the 3 people that had been shot 1 which was
shot critically.
Um, I wanted to ask you.
Um, I wanted to ask you a few questions. Are you the only
person
That collects and reviews the data. How big is your staff
know know my staff is actually uh proper and at
headquarters. We're we're a staff about 24 makes a
headquarters. We're we're a staff about 24 mix of sworn and
civilian, but the data is collected. Um,
And if you picture at the department level.
So it's accessible by like the sdsc rooms as well. Um,
depending on what their their utilization is.
depending on what their their utilization is, but uh, we
have people um with access to the data. So 24 people across
the districts 24 people just a headquarters that
the districts 24 people just a headquarters. That doesn't
correct the data depending on your level of access. It's
accessible to the districts. Obviously a lot of the
districts make use of it.
districts make use of it on a day-to-day basis where it's
available. So, all right, so you're not going to need this
additional.
Data that's being asked of you shouldn't be.
Data that's being asked of you. Shouldn't be a problem in
terms of Staffing. You have the ability.
terms of Staffing. You have the ability to collect the
statement most of the requests.
state and most of the requests. I did get a chance to look
at Alderman Tal's, uh, and I believe
at Alderman Tal's. Uh, and I believe what we're we're
speaking about today. Most of that data is already there.
So it shouldn't be much of an issue. So, can you tell me
from your perspective?
from your perspective of the 9 items on this list? What's
new?
Um, I don't think there's anything very new. I will say
that maybe the most difficult ask and this has always been
the case is to um,
kind of prove their service level agreement. It's hard.
It's easy to wrap your head around the false negatives
right where they miss right because they do miss they do
have vacations when they miss.
It's hard.
it's harder to disprove when you get an alert and there's
no evidence recovered. So to speak um and there.
different factors for that. But that would be the toughest
1.
1 on there. I would in your review of this, uh substitute.
ordinance. Is there any data?
uh
Uh, is there any?
Uh, is there any data should there be a 10 or an 11 or 12?
Is there anything that's missing?
Um, I don't want to save for sure right now. I'll take
another.
another look. Um, I will say most of that data, I believe
we have produced for this uh Committee in the past for
Budget hearings. So most of it should be there. Um, and
then I'll take a look if there's something missing.
I'll work it through my chain of command obviously. Yeah, I
would ask um to the
Alderman Moore if you could give him an opportunity, I
don't know if you want.
don't know if you want to pass this today, but if you would
give him an opportunity to see if they're missing data
elements.
elements here that could be added into this document.
Alderman Moore we can we can pass it out but still
additional.
okay, um and then
Okay. Um and then are you looking at um retali?
Okay. Um and then are you looking at um retaliation how
shot spotter?
shot spotter might alert you to other POS?
shot spotter might alert you to other possible shootings
that could have occurred that could occur.
that could have occurred that could occur because of an
incident that you're responding to.
Um, I don't know if that's specifically.
Um, I don't know if that's specifically I will say and and
again my experience in the sdsc rooms. I will say that it's
used for a variety of different, uh, kind of analysis.
mechanisms within those rooms that that could possibly be 1
of them, but I can't tell you for sure right now. Okay that
that would be 1 that I would ask if you could uh,
that would be 1 that I would ask if you could uh post this
meeting if you could think about whether or not it makes
sense to have that as a data point.
I'll take a look into it Alderman. Um again, I'm not on the
committee, but I support this and
committee but I support this and uh, uh,
hope that we
Hope that we pass this today. Thank you. Thank you. Uh
thank you. Alderwoman, Dal.
Alderman Irving followed by alderwoman Taylor Alderman
Irving
Thank you. Uh, thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um and um
appreciate all the comments that have been made today, uh
on the uh on the issue.
um
the uh shot spotter technology again is I think
The uh shot spotter technology again is I think been very
useful, uh coming from the west side coming from the 11th
District.
District, um and listening to uh Commanders
District, um and listening to uh commanders in both the
11th 15th and 10th districts in area 4, uh, talk about
their use of the technology and talk about how it's helped
them. Um, I think it it is important.
them. Um, I think it it is important for us to uh, you
know, figure out how we can maintain this technology or
we can find something that's going to be better. I'm very
interested in the first speaker that um,
what they brought about uh, and if this is not the best, um
that we should be seeking the use of the of the
technology possible. Uh, I am, um, you know a little
perplexed and and how we as a council will need to deal
with the administration on this issue. Um, I know sometimes
we um, you know, take our roles, you know, we take our
roles very seriously. I know we all do and uh all
roles very seriously. I know we all do and uh, all of us
are are are hopeful that we can find uh,
are are are hopeful that we can find uh as they say
something better than what we have today.
something better than what we have today that will be
useful for our officers and for uh, you know for the
community, uh, and and I'm hopeful that we can come to some
conclusion on that. I do support, uh, what all of it for
is.
is, uh, uh saying, I'm glad to see that there was some
delicious made uh was concerned about the Constitution.
constitutionality of the original ordinance, but the
substitute does appear, uh to be in in sync.
substitute does appear, uh to be in in sync and the data
collection and all the things for my investigatory.
collection and all the things for my investigatory of
powers as a legislative body, I think,
well in line with what we need to be working on and doing
and working on the solution with the administration.
and working on the solution with the administration on that
and then sometimes we uh, we have so much.
and then sometimes we uh, we have so much executive
privilege that uh, we also must remind ourselves that
enforcement. Uh,
enforcement uh is not a legislative function, but an
executive function that we need to work and trying to find
a way that we can uh get what it is that we feel is in uh
needed for our communities, but at the same,
needed for our communities, but at the same time, uh, you
know having to be an executed,
That is Meaningful to all of us. So again, I thank our
aldermen, uh wolf bringing this forward.
aldermen, uh wolf bringing this forward and uh we support.
Thank you.
Chairman Ervin. Thank you very much. Uh
Chairman Ervin. Thank you very much, uh chairwoman Taylor.
You have a question.
No, I have a couple of comments comments first. I want to
say how we continuing the meeting.
say how we continuing the meeting with somebody who cannot
give us the information and we're defending shot spotter,
but the folks with shot spotter are not even here, so I'm
not sure why we're not holding.
not sure why we're not holding this and I'll do respect to
all the men more. He's absolutely right. We should have a
conversation among.
conversation amongst us but if shot spotters is not the
best then what is and let me say this. I live in the ward
who has been benefited but also,
who has been benefited but also shot spotter has been
problematic if anybody know where my office is is right off
the expressway and I can count the number of times on my
hands and feet that the police have showed up and it's been
the back.
the backfire from the expressway. And so if we going to
spend money on something let it be something that actually
works or something that we could collect clear data.
works or something that we could collect clear data on. I'm
not interested in throwing money.
not interested in throwing money at shot spotters just
because they've been there that makes no sense and it's not
responsible and number 2.
Question we should be asking is people. Don't feel safe
enough.
enough to call the police. So is that on shot? Is that on?
the contract or is that on our communities? Is that on us?
We need to have a real conversation about safety.
We need to have a real conversation about safety and
throwing more money at shot spotters in the police has not.
made us safe because we've done that for decades.
And so let's let's be real with each other. Let's be
honest.
and you absolutely right Ward should have a
And you absolutely right Ward should have a space where
they say what they want. But also the super.
they say what they want. But also the superintendent should
be here. I'm confused on why he's not.
Maybe he wasn't asked I'm not sure and I don't know.
Maybe he wasn't asked I'm not sure and I don't know and so
how we have this is a half.
how we have this is a half conversation.
it honestly is
It honestly is because we're just talking about with shot
spotters. There was another young lady.
spotters. There was another young lady who testified that
says she had some technology to.
says she had some technology. So Anthony Bill's point. It
should be put out to be in or some type of conversation.
But this is a half conversation that I ain't willing to
vote on.
not willing to I'm I don't
Not willing to I'm I don't know why we continue to have a
conversation and whether he was ill.
conversation and whether he was Ill prepared or not. There
should just be some basic data on.
should just be some basic data on shot spotter that we
don't even have.
Thank you Vice chair.
Chairwoman Taylor. Thank you very much. Uh, I do have um
Your comments noted. Um
ottomans visado
Thank you chairman, uh Shack and Lead at everyone.
Thank you chairman. Uh, sha can lead it everyone. I'm a
supporter of it, uh jot spot and I welcome it. I just have
a few things first. I just want to say very well said
Monique and Ray. What's your comment?
Monique and Ray. What's your comments? You were spot on.
Um, so doesn't it tell us something that people don't
Um, so doesn't it? Tell us something that people don't call
911
Doesn't it tell us that we need?
Doesn't it tell us that we need something like this would
be my question to my colleague. Um, we know it doesn't stop
crime. I'm not saying it.
crime. I'm not saying it stops crime.
Sergeant arms
You know, it doesn't stop crime, but it's a tool.
You know, it doesn't stop crime but it's a tool to solve
crime and save lives. That's just my feeling, okay?
crime and save lives. That's just my feeling. Okay, and it
also may stop crime because it may stop.
also may stop crime because it may stop retaliation. The
police are getting there fast enough, um certain
police are getting there fast enough. Um, certainly it does
stop crime in a way. Um,
we always hear from my 13 years here. We always heard if it
says 1 life it's worth it if it saves 1 life it's worth it.
So that's just something I'd like to say.
So that's just something I'd like to say for saves 1 life.
It's worth it and another group that should be in this
conversation not only to police but also fire, I believe uh
should be in on a conversation.
should be in on a conversation of this because they could
tell you that.
Runs they had that weren't call.
Runs they had that weren't call in that they saved people's
lives. So.
lives. So somebody mentioned about somebody in her
community bleeding out over there. Uh,
community bleeding out over there, uh if they know about it
and an ambulance comes
it and an ambulance comes, um, that person's life could be
saved. So just want to make comments.
saved. So just want to make comments on them. I know most
of the stuff has been said, I just want to let it be known.
unsurprisingly to everybody. I am a supporter of it. Um, I
think it's a tool in the toolbox. Um, and I 100% support
it. So, thank you chairman.
thank you Alderman, uh next we'll have
Thank you Alderman, uh next we'll have ottoman.
Thank you chairman. Um I too
Thank you chairman. Um, I too support this I support my my
colleagues. Um West with this. Um, I believe we're
narrative in this whole conversation gets skewed is that
this was a device? We we need to know that this was a a
device that was implemented.
Um under the
um under the idea of the concept to
spot shots
it was never implemented as
a shot predictor
and I think that's where this message is taken.
directions here of where it's
useful and where it's not useful
um
Unfortunately the concept that shot spotter.
unfortunately the concept that shot spotter is ideal for
our city because unfortunately the city of Chicago is
plagued with probably.
plagued with probably the most shots fired on a daily
basis.
than anywhere else in this country. And that's unfortunate.
Um to me, it's a tool. It's a tool that we can use to.
Um to me, it's a tool. It's a tool that we can use to help.
Um,
neighborhoods that
Neighborhoods that are plagued with this situation. It's
not in my neighborhood.
not in my neighborhood, but I'm a thousand percent for it
and anyone's neighbor.
And anyone's neighborhood work could possibly save a life.
Just the concept alone of hearing.
Just the concept alone of hearing this gentleman. Say that
over 60% of the shots that it indicates are never called
in.
as a police officer
No, it's dates back a little bit.
No, it's dates back a little bit before but I remember
being in a squad car.
being in a squad car and uh, I worked the Austin
neighborhood. Where in the far distance you.
neighborhood where in the far distance you can hear shots
fired, um and an alarm.
fired, um at an alarming rate multiple rounds and then
listen to your radio.
listen to your radio and never hear come over the radio at
a dispatch.
a dispatch as I call going out.
this
This is also a tool. We're just a week ago.
Our Chicago police officers were pinned down in a gun
battle.
The offenders were shooting multiple shots back at our
officers.
Unfortunately 1 of our officers off.
Unfortunately 1 of our officers officers was hit and is
doing okay, but were shot spotter became a great tool it
was able to triangulate where those shots were and where
those officers were.
those officers were and able to get them effective help
immediately.
immediately when our radios had failed them.
if you'd
If you'd listen to the call, you could tell that as they're
trying to report.
trying to report their locations. They were being stepped
over by other radio.
over by other radio operators as well as the radio's
weren't working. Well at the moment.
But someone had come on.
shot spotter wise and said exactly location where those
Shot spotter wise and said exactly location where those
that officer was and able to get help there.
What I'm worried about here.
Is that the message is constantly getting skewed of what?
shot spotter is for.
I believe this is more of a move.
I believe this is more of a movement to get the budget.
Inn reallocated somewhere else
I don't believe this is a move.
I don't believe this is a movement that is looking at.
How many people are shot every year?
How many people are shot every year in the city of Chicago?
And unfortunately, how many?
Innocent victims we are losing.
Innocent victims we are losing every day.
I support this.
and any way you can save a life as well as my
say is is something I support every day. So I'm for this uh
chairman. I appreciate the opportunity to speak on this.
Thank you. Thank you. Um, and I would like to recognize
ottoman Mosley.
uh next um
comments from ottoman cadon.
comments from ottoman codona
Thank you, Mr.
um
Um, I'm I'm sorry, please forgive me ottoman Cardona. I'd
like to recognize ottoman Mosley who would like to
some comments ottoman Mosley.
Thank you, Mr. Vice chair, and thank you to my colleague
from the 17th.
from the 17th for who has pulled this together. Uh, we were
thankful for the commitment to Public Safety expressed by
you and uh colleagues I spoke in support of this.
you and uh colleagues. I spoke in support of this and I add
my name to that role of support.
my name to that role of supporters. I want to ask a
question about how do we share?
question about how do we share this information this data
that we are collecting?
that we are collecting so that um all agents of
Safety can be more effective.
Safety can be more effective primarily. How are we sharing
this?
data with our violence interrupting Interruption group
Data with our violence interrupting Interruption groups. Um,
so that they can determine Pat.
so that they can determine patterns, uh and use that
information.
information in their Outreach efforts.
Definitely. Yes. Oh, hi, sorry. Um.
Definitely. Yes. Oh, hi, sorry. Um, yeah, so I know there's
already a mechanism in place in several.
already a mechanism in place in several districts where
they contact the violence disruptor groups directly when
they get those shots about alerts, so I believe there is
something in place already. I don't know, uh how structured
that is.
that is, but that is something that already occurs within
these sdsc rooms.
Would love to more love to know more about it. Um, I'm glad
that it.
that it doesn't seem like they have to Foy you to get this
information.
information because we just want them to act with
expediency. Um, so would love to know more about what that
partnership looks like, uh in data sharing looks like
and and that was my question. Thank you so much.
and and that was my question. Thank you so much, Mr. Vice
chair.
Thank you ottoman MOS.
Thank you. Ottoman Mosley ottoman cardono.
Thank you. Um
I I I stay here. Um
Supporting this because I think it's very important.
Supporting this because I think it's very important for our
neighborhoods. Especially brought the city of Chicago which
we which we all know every Community is different.
Um 1 thing I have a question for you.
Um 1 thing I have a question for you is Alderman Lopez
referred that certain police?
referred that certain police districts don't have don't
utilize a spot shutter. Do you know how many police
districts uh utilize?
districts uh, utilize this uh technology or don't use it.
Yes, so you currently is deployed. I believe in 12 and 10
districts do not have a deployed or not deployed to the
scale of.
scale of uh what we have in the like the Tier 1 and tier 2
districts. Yeah.
districts. Yeah, so
10 districts or districts do not employ it. Wow. Okay and
10 districts or districts do not employ it. Wow. Okay. And
is there a way that we are able to utilize put some Spot
Shot?
shutters in those districts to help utilize our police?
shutters in those districts to help utilize our police most
likely there is but that's something that would probably
work through uh public safety administration. Not me. I'm
more uh, it seems like a the data person in the collection
and the sdsc rooms even though even though I didn't bring
it with me today, but that would be sort of a PSA. I
believe that would be their functionality. So then how many
Wards utilize this technology?
Wards utilize this technology uh within their boundaries
Do you know off hand? Um, well, I I don't know off the
of my head, but obviously there's going to be some words
that have some coverage just based on how the geographies
are drawn up, right? So they'll bleed Over Districts. Um,
but I don't know exactly how many words
but I don't know exactly how many Wards it touches off the
top of my head. I
Because it'd be great to know which uh Wards are affected.
Yeah, and which was Arna right? It will be the case that
some Wards have coverage in some spots and then obviously
as the boundaries go, they will not have coverage in
another spot.
Okay. Well, that's a that's that was my only question. Um
on my questions.
on my questions were answered. But as you can hear it's the
data we need.
data we need that data, uh to be given to us or to be
analyzed so we could make um,
analyzed so we could make um certain um sense of fixtures.
analyzed so we could make um certain um sense of fixtures,
um in in our communities that would help utilize, uh police
officers.
police officers, uh going to a response. Thank you. Yeah.
Thank you, Autumn. And
Thank you almond almond. Um.
tomorrows
thank
Thank you. I just want to say that.
Thank you. I just want to say that I'm also in support of
this gunshot technology of shot spotter. I think before
we're going to get rid of something canceled. We really
need to understand.
need to understand what Solutions or what other remedies
are going to take place.
are going to take place of shot Spotter, and I really
haven't had received a conversation or heard a discussion
in depth of what those Solutions are. This is an effective
tool that going to help solve save lives.
tool that going to help solve save lives and solve crimes.
I think it's it's really important that we have this data.
Of how many times a police officer has resp?
of how many times a police officer has responded to a shot
spotter call and has applied a tourniquet. I want to see
those numbers. We need to understand that.
those numbers. We need to understand that and we also need
to understand the shell casings.
to understand the shell casings of how they're used to
solve crimes. What are the numbers for that? We don't we
need to understand those numbers?
need to understand those numbers too. We need to understand
that this tool. This is an effective tool that's going.
that this tool. This is an effective tool that's going to
save lives and help solve.
save lives and help solve crimes and I really ha and I
really have a problem with these.
really have a problem with these outside groups who have
been calling.
been calling to end shots spot or they don't live in our
community. They don't they don't.
community. They don't they don't even have shot spotter in
their communities and they in order for that when I spoke
at a recent Forum back in febuary.
the ccpsa these outside
The ccpsa these outside groups were protesting to end shot
spotter. They were collecting sign.
spotter. They were collecting signatures to hold that
hearing and they a lot of those signatures.
hearing and they a lot of those signatures were outside of
Chicago. So they circulated signatures again for the Forum
and then they they failed to collect the number of
signatures. So there is a great demand to keep shots.
in our communities and we need to have those numbers.
in our communities and we need to have those numbers that
data that data needs to be transparent that data.
transparent and we need to hold the administration
accountable.
accountable to to make sure that we have that data and that
data is transparent and we shouldn't punish the entire city
of Chicago to not have shots spotter. There's a lot of
aldermen who signed on to this ordinance.
aldermen who signed on to this ordinance who wants to keep
shots spotter. So we need to keep this gunshot technology
in our communities and for
Ehrman who do not want shots butter who are against it. I I
highly encourage you to visit the SDS.
highly encourage you to visit the sdsc room like yourself.
You said you started this off in the SD.
You said you started this off in the sdsc room. Um, I've
had an experience to take the princip.
had an experience to take the principles to take people in
my community to the SDC rooms.
my community to the SDC room so they can see for themselves
how this Tech gunshot technology works.
themselves how this Tech gunshot technology works. So,
thank you.
and I will say that I was also at
And I will say that I was also at the februari ccpsa
hearing I do have.
hearing I do have what I did bring today some numbers. Uh,
I do have uh in preparation for that meeting as of 2021 we
we kind of streamlined some of our collection mechanisms
for a render.
for a rendered so I can't tell you that as of uh, Jan.
2021. There's been over 450 people that have been rendered.
Aid uh related to shot spotter alerts.
What is that number again, please? 450 over 450 for the
year of uh as oh since Jan 2021. So 01.
year of uh, as oh since Jan 2021. So 01 Jan 2021 moving
forward over 450 people have been rendered Aid as a result
of the shot spotter.
1 of fair verification, please.
Thank you. I just curious.
Thank you. I just curious as to what um.
What specific Kate?
What specific categories count is rendered Aid a rendered
Aid so that would include anything.
Aid so that would include anything from a chest seal
haemost or a pressure bandage or a tourniquet applied or a
regular like CPR? Okay, is that
regular like CPR? Okay. Is that broken a a different
between like CPD and other First Responders? Like how's
that data track usually and I could be wrong. Uh
say most of the time this is well this for sure CPD.
because this is in our system. Um, I don't know if there's
another collection mechanism for other First Responders.
Okay. Thank you.
have information
on those 400 plus incidents how many head?
on those 400 plus incidents how many head corresponding 911
calls with them? I don't I'd have to give clarification on
those.
Yeah, roughly. I don't I don't know. I I that that uh, it
was a very specific question.
was a very specific question that they had me prepare for
in dedication about
in dedication. Sorry about that. If you if you could
provide us through the chair, absolutely how many of them
actually had independent 911 calls associated.
actually had independent 911 calls Associated because that
would go back to the original premise that this is for
Victim Assistance.
Thank you.
ottoman Curtis
Thank you. Uh, I just I just had 1 of information. I do
want to thank um.
my neighbor
My neighbor um and colleague almond MO.
I want for bringing this forward.
You had talked about. Um
data
Data and accessibility. Could you clar?
Data and accessibility could you clarify that? Um some of
the people have a certain level of access?
the people have a certain level of accessibility with the
data? Why is that? That's just within the
data? Why is that that's just within the department sir?
Just we don't have every we don't give uh access to the
data warehouse to everybody depends on their uh, the work
they're going to be working with obviously we do deal with
a lot of sensitive information. So,
a lot of sensitive information. So we kind of build
different tiers of access, but
different tiers of access but uh, the people that need
access to the shot spotter data the SDS.
access to the shot spotter data the sdsc room, so to speak
our unit have access to all that information. Okay great,
but but there's no level to how much information
uh that someone that asks for it gets correct know and and
again we are at I'm going to say the 4 your word again. We
are.
are responsive to all the foyer. So when we get those
requests we do our best.
requests, we do our best obviously to answer the questions
as thoroughly as possible.
Yeah. All right. Thank you. Thank you. You too.
Thank you ottoman Curtis, um almond
Thank you ottoman Curtis. Um almond hoppenworth.
Thank you Vice chair.
thank you for being here and I
Thank you for being here and I uh appreciate.
The opportunity to talk about this. I'm from the 48.
The opportunity to talk about this. I'm from the 48th Ward
and we don't have shot spotter on.
and we don't have shot spotter on the North side. And so
when we're talking about um this technology and what it
when we're talking about, um this technology and what it
does.
I want to thank my colleague.
I want to thank my colleague for bringing this forward
because I think that we do have
a responsibility to the taxpayers on what we're using our
resources for.
resources for and can you just clarify for me? What?
resources for and can you just clarify for me what you
think this technology does?
um if I had to describe it I
Um, if I had to describe it I consider shots better be a
crime detection tool and location tool. So a crime
detection.
detection, correct, so you wouldn't you wouldn't call it a
crime.
crime prevention tool. No. No, I'd call it a crime.
crime prevention tool. No. No, I'd call that a crime
detection and location tool.
Thank you. That's my kind of you know from my use. That's
what I would think it you should it should be cool.
Thanks.
thanks, so when we're talking about data and what we're
collecting and why we're collecting it. I think that we we
just want to be able to tell our constituents that what
we're using actually.
we're using actually works and so it seems that um,
we're using actually works and so it seems that um all the
points that we're bringing up.
um
Um is very valid and I appreciate that. We want to know the
number.
number of arrests also, um that are made.
number of arrests also, um that are made through because of
shot Spotter and also, um the average report time, you know
after
know, after a detection has been made, um, because we know
that can actually save lives
Um, I'm curious to know.
also
what we are doing in terms of
the number of people who are FAL
the number of people who are falsely arrested or accused
because of this technology. Is that something else that
you're collecting? That's um, I that's data is not familiar
to me specifically. It's it doesn't deal in like the kind
of the
the basket of my my my kind of day-to-day work. So I I
don't know it's not like I could look into but I don't know
off the top of my head. Yeah. It seems to me that that
would be a really important thing.
would be a really important thing to track as well. And I
mean we're talking about um
I mean if if I was somebody who wanted to prevent getting
pregnant, you know, I would want to see all the tools in
front of me that I could.
front of me that I could utilize for that and make my uh
decision based on.
The data. Um, so I I think about the Cook County State's
Attorneys.
Uh recent report that just came out.
uh recent report that just came out that says that um, there
are very few arrests that are made because of shot spotter.
Are you familiar with that report? Uh a little bit. I like
I said, I
I said I can it's very it's um, we can
I said, I can it's very it's um, we can figure out how many
arrests we made that are tied to shots.
arrests we made that are tied to shot spotter events. I
don't know specifically about the absence, but it's
something I could look into arrests made related to shot
spot or something we can do.
Yeah, you know in the in the in.
Yeah, you know in the in the in my community, that's really
um what they're interested.
um what they're interested in not only um prevent
prevention of crime, but also Justice, you know, how is it
that we can um, bring Justice to the families.
that we can um, bring Justice to the families who are most
impacted by gun violence and I just wonder
um is this
um, is this something that is important for us to track as
well?
Yeah, that's something I could look into. I I do know I
think if I remember correctly when there is a shooting
event that is related to shot spotter.
I I want to say it's over 90% of the time we collect some
evidence.
evidence think that's at those events.
evidence thing. That's at those events. So either whether
it's spent shell casings, uh unexpended shell casings or
other kind of ballistic evidence. Usually we find something
Yeah, and I appreciate that. We want to collect that.
Yeah, and I appreciate that. We want to collect that data as
well. I I'm also thinking about the MacArthur Justice
Center at the North Western.
Center at the Northwestern, uh law school. Are you familiar
with the stud?
with the studies that they have also been conducting a
little bit but I
little bit, but I haven't gone through them specifically
here. Yeah. I understand that. They have sued the city of
Chicago because of false.
Chicago because of false arrests.
and I don't that's
Of my maybe my pay grade I guess related.
of my maybe my pay grade. I guess related to shot spotter.
Yeah, I'm just I hope Vice chair and chair in this
committee.
committee can consider if we do hold.
committee can consider if we do hold more hearings about
the use of this technology that we could bring in other
sources like the Macar.
sources like the MacArthur Center and also the Cook County
State's Attorney's.
State's Attorney's office so we can really put all of the
information out on the table so that we can consider what
we're doing because I am concerned about um,
because of Any technology or
um
any approach that?
any approach that we use to prevent crime and also, um
I also want to be able to be um.
you know, uh person who's thinking about
the lives of our officers who are on
The lives of our officers who are on the front lines to to
respond. Um, and also for those that they are here to serve
and so we want to be sure that we're not um falsely
accusing.
accusing or um, racially profiling um because of
accusing or um, racially profiling, um, because of
technology that we're using and so, uh chair I would
I I ask that we could.
I I ask that we could consider using um the time that we
spent on more conversations.
spent on more conversations around collection of data and
bring in other groups like The MacArthur Justice Center and
the state's attorney.
the State's Attorney's office. Um,
as well as CPD and shot spotter when we continue these
conversations.
Thank you. Is that all?
Thank you. Is that all I apologize? I got here in the
middle of your that's okay. Okay. Is there anything else or
was it a question for?
was it a question for for you? Actually?
was it a question for for you? Actually, is it possible
that we could bring in other sources?
that we could bring in other sources of information when we
continue these conversations?
continue these conversations including uh, the MacArthur
just
Justice Center?
Andor the State's Attorney's office
Yeah, I don't have um, I don't have a problem.
Yeah, I don't have um, I don't have a problem with bringing
uh bringing them in to speak with.
uh bringing them in to speak with regard to uh their
report. Yes. Thank you because I
I I do.
I I do believe that is it's in within our purview for each
of us to consider what our neighborhoods need.
And they also believe that we should be data.
And they also believe that we should be data driven and
that data should be object.
that data should be objective as much as possible. So,
thank you so much.
you so much Jerry. Okay, thank you. Um all the 1 moment
I'll hop in with a point of information Alderman Curt.
I'll hop in with a point of information Alderman Curtis.
piggy backing off all the hopping work, uh
Piggy backing off all the hopping work, uh, just 1 1 quick
question. So
With our questions, would you consider?
shop spot as being a
Shop spot as being a first responder in situations.
Um, I don't
I don't know if I understand it correctly. I I don't know
if I could call.
if I could call it a well if we have uh, uh according to
all of them Scott.
Where we have uh shots.
Where we have uh Shots by spotting responding.
Where we have uh Shots by spotting responding and no calls
or OMC that will be consider.
or OMC that will be considered first responder. Correct it
it would be the initiating event. I guess maybe if I'm
understanding correctly. Yes. It is most of the time the
initiating.
initiating event for sure. Appreciate it. Thank you, Jim.
I think your ultimate uh
Curtis
I believe we have Alderman sposato followed by Al.
Nugent alderman pisado.
Thank you chairman. Just a point of information. I wanted
to say so a lot of information Al.
to say so a lot of information alado. It it it actually
does stop crime. I don't care what anybody says it stops
crime in the fact that it stops.
crime in the fact that it stops retaliatory crimes. So if
people aren't calling and stuff in and we don't know about
this We Can't Stop anything.
this We Can't Stop anything we know much time is
retaliatory. So
respectfully disagree with anybody who thinks it doesn't.
stop crime. It does stop crime. It may not stop the initial
crime. It's stopped retaliation. So please get on the
scene.
crime. It's stopped retaliation. So please get on the scene
how often you hear of
people read
People retailing with caps all over the place on the scene.
So yes it
So yes, it does stop crying. Thank you chairman.
Thank you all all the woman nugget.
and thank you for
And thank you for having this hearing today. I will.
supporting this the data does illustrate that.
supporting this the data does illustrate that residents are
receiving life-saving care. Can you hear me chair?
Okay, we'll move on and come back.
Okay, we'll move on and come back to all the women Nugent.
Alderman Co Lopez, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I apologize man V
VA gets followed by ottoman CTO Lopez
Thank you, Mr. Chairman and want to thank my colleague for.
the 17th award for bringing this up for discussion. Um, is
it fair to say uh from CPD?
it fair to say uh from CPD standpoint that if it's not shot
spotter?
The there is going to be some type of Technology.
The there is going to be some type of Technology around
gunshot detection.
Uh, I can answer that. Unfortunately. Well based on the
commissioner's. I'm sorry the superintendent's comments.
uh, he's been a fan of Technology whether it's shot spot or
a license plate readers, um other forms of technology
drones, um,
and so
I just wanted to put that on the record that I support
that.
we had this some type of Technology whether it's shot.
spotter or what whatever because the subject.
spotter or what whatever because the subject matter expert.
in the superintendent
In the superintendent who we've charged with administering
Public Safety.
Public Safety or being in charge of public safety for the
city has said that he needs this tool within this toolbox,
and I would hate to put someone that we've charged with a
mission.
mission of Public Safety, uh in a position where he didn't
have all the tools necessary to complete the task. Uh, and
so the same way that I wouldn't question, uh, the C do
commissioner as they're putting forward their Capital plan
around the the the the materials they're going to use to
resurface the roads or the water department on how which
chemicals they're going to use to deliver.
chemicals they're going to use to deliver clean water for
the residents of Chicago. I think that we have to make sure
that that we entrust uh that the superintendent is going to
put forward his budget.
put forward his budget with all the necessary budget
requirements for Budget ask, uh based on his subject
matter.
expertise as the person that we've charged.
expertise as the person that we've charged with, uh,
delivering Public Safety for the residents of Chicago. Um,
so um,
Based on the the commission. I'm sorry superintendent's
comments. He has said he needs some type of gunshot
technology to help. Uh, and if it's not shot spotter it's
going to be some type of Technology based on the comments
that the superintendent has provided. So I just want to
bring uh, thank my colleague for bringing this forward. Uh,
and we have this discussion because I think it's important
that um, we provide the necessary tools to make sure that
the residents of Chicago the visitors of Chicago.
the residents of Chicago the visitors of Chicago, uh can
enjoy the quality of life and and their visit here in the
city, uh without fear of of being harmed. Thank you.
Thank you alderman viegas.
Alderman Byron CTO Lopez followed by
Alderman Vasquez
Thank you chairman.
Thank you chairman, um and appreciate our colleague for
bringing this for discussion. I do I do think that we need
to make decisions.
to make decisions based on evidence and data.
to make decisions based on evidence and data, uh, many
people can have an opinion but an opinion that is not
Guided by data and facts. Um, it is, uh, it could have an
intended consequences as I'll do the women.
intended consequences as Alder women Taylor mentioned. I
have 2 simple questions number.
have 2 simple questions number 1
Uh has the shop.
uh has the shop spot a look at the Inspector General report
on shot spotter that
on shot spotter. That was the 1 cent on I think it was the
2021 if I'm not mistaken as it has shot spotter was able to
take a look.
take a look at the Inspector General report.
I couldn't speak.
I couldn't speak for shot spotter. I don't know Alderman.
Yeah, so in terms of like the the reports that that
received from the Inspector General, right? It speaks about
some of the concerns that we have here and for the sake of
sake of continuity and I agree with my colleagues. I do
think it's important that we could review in and look at
that data how we not only prevent losses of life.
that data how we not only prevent losses of life, but we
certainly do not want to cause you know, the the the loss
of life I think.
of life. I think the the case of adding to is 1 of the many
so, um my only my only question
so um, my only my only question will be uh through the
chair. Can we work with?
chair. Can we work with Inspector General just to make sure
Sure.
sure that we as we have this conversations, we look at the
data and see where we land. Um in terms of making sure that
we are taking
that we are taking the right step to prevent of course all
laws of life. So again, that would be my uh, um, my strong
recommendation as this being already a study through the
inspector.
Inspector General that we continue looking at these
initiatives with the same lenses. Thank you.
Thank you almond by Lopez.
Alderman VA gets I'm sorry alderman.
Vasquez
Thank you chairman. I appreciate it. Um, I I also uh
thank you chairman. I appreciate it. Um, I I also uh, I'm
appreciative of the fact that we have this conversation.
Um, I've got a a couple questions through the chair,
hopefully
Um, I've got a a couple questions to the chair hopefully,
um, so, uh, we have a representative of CPD
um, so uh, we have a representative of CPD here.
Part of the challenge that I've seen in this conversation.
is I don't believe the city's ever identified exactly what
it wants out.
it wants out of any technology.
Right, so we showed up here. It was like hey, this is shot
spotter. Here's what we're using. Um, the CPD have any
documentation prior.
documentation prior to shot spotter being hired by the city
as to what?
as to what it was looking for when it first was putting out
the RFP.
I'm not exactly sure that was before obviously. Okay, I was
in this for yeah. Yeah, I think for me those.
in this for yeah. Yeah, I think for me those questions kind
of lead there. I think there's a a number of different
things that I've got concerns about. Most of them are about
the fact that the city has not articulated what it wants
out of any software. So this assumption that just putting 9
million dollars a year towards a software is getting us
what we want.
what we want is just that an assumption. I think it'd be
easier if the city identified its metrics over how it wants
to track.
to track success how it wants to track progress what it
wants out of any software that it uses to then put out a
real RFP.
real RFP to identify what a competitive process looks like.
as to what someone can provide because it appears to me and
looking.
looking at this.
long-standing
Long-standing conversation around shot spotter that it
feels like people.
feels like people speaking at each other but not hearing
each other out, I think.
each other out. I think it's it's fair for me and I'll
disagree with my colleague Al.
disagree with my colleague Alder Miss pisado. I don't
believe it prevents anything. I don't.
believe it prevents anything. I don't think it prevents
activity from happening. I don't think it leads to larger
clearance rates when it comes to um,
investigations but I do think there is clearly a value in
first responding when a
first responding when the Situation's occurred. There is a
potentially somebody being shot.
potentially somebody being shot to getting First Responders
to come out to get ambulances.
to come out to get ambulances out. Um, I do understand that
the value set there because growing up in neighborhoods
where shots tend to occur.
I couldn't tell you what street something came from.
I couldn't tell you what street something came from when I'm
inside the house and hear a sound so I do understand.
inside the house and hear a sound. So I do understand.
There's a a a healthy conversation.
There's a a a healthy conversation to be had but because
we've never articulated what we want to.
we've never articulated what we want to get out of software
we end up just throwing money at something would that
actually get in the results? So I I met with shots.
actually get in the results? So I I met with shot spotter a
couple years ago, and I asked the following.
couple years ago and I asked the following questions. I'll
follow I'll follow with you so based on the shots.
follow I'll follow with you. So based on the shots that are
heard, right? You've got incident cases or or whenever.
heard, right you've got incident cases or or whenever those
those are first heard. Is that tied to
those are first heard is that tied to anything that would
track when evidence is found. Yeah. Yeah, so we can tie
that to like again ballistic evidence firearm.
that to like again ballistic evidence Firearms recovered
arrest. What does that look like when you get like
the numbers on that? So again, uh since I participated in
the ccpsa hearing I do know that since 2020.
the ccpsa hearing I do know that since 2020 in this case
through februari this year we've recovered
through februari this year. We've recovered over 40,000, uh
different types of ballistic EV
different types of ballistic evidence meaning spent shell
casing, uh expend.
casing, uh, expended shells guns stuff of that nature. What
percentage is that?
percentage is that out of the total shot spotter alerts,
um it
depends because the
Depends because the if it's a lot of evidence, I'd have to
see how many I haven't gotten into.
see how many I haven't gotten into dig into how many are
tied to how many alerts.
tied to how many alerts I could tell you that that's how
many pieces of evidence has been recorded. I got you and
and you can find multiple pieces to 1 alert, right?
Exactly. I think the reason why that's important is
software can do that you can require
software can do that. You can require software to say.
Okay. Let's let's take this down to the case level how many
let the cases how many led to actual con?
let the cases how many led to actual convictions that might
better speak to efficacy and also speak to holding officers
accountable.
accountable to investigate.
s and doing the rest of the work because I think
what it feels like 2 different people talking.
what it feels like 2 different people talking, uh against
each other 1 group is saying hey, this doesn't increase the
accountability. It doesn't lead.
accountability. It doesn't lead to better results as it
pertains to these cases as it pertains.
pertains to these cases as it pertains to preventing it. I
think that's a fair case to be made and the inspector.
General's report shows some of that.
but equally there should be a case made to say you know
what we found this amount of evidence that led to this many
cases that actually was helpful. That is
cases that actually was helpful that isn't being made
either. And so when we talk about what we want to get
of the software that we're going to be paying 9 10 million
dollars a year for we should be able to articulate wanting
to get those results.
to get those results to both have more safety and
neighborhoods and have better. Um resp
neighborhoods and have better, um response and also find
out the efficacy of anything. We're paying for in a way
that just hasn't happened.
just hasn't happened. Um, if if for example there was
software that didn't communicate to CPD but communicated to
ambulances for First Response when it came to shots. Would
there be a problem with that for example
Um, I'm so I'm not a sworn member. I don't know how that
would work. Um, my my only guess is that I don't know if
you're going to get an ambulance response to
I don't know. I don't know exactly how that would how that
would hand out. But again, I'm not sworn that's not
something kind of that. I'm very familiar with
not something kind of that. I'm very familiar with. Yeah. I
mean perfectly honest because the reason the reason I ask
that is I think I think police should be focused on 3 core
functions investigation apprehension.
functions investigation apprehension and emergency response
on its appropriate. I don't think any of those things get
determined.
determined by a shot spotter alert necessarily and so
it does potentially is it takes officers off of what their
core function should be.
core function should be and the way
they might need a less safety, but we don't have
points to back that up. And so I would I would.
Respectfully if you could send any other data points that
you all have.
you all have related to some of the evidence that you're
talking about.
talking about as it relates to the number of alerts, that
would be helpful. Um again, I appreciate
all of our colleagues because I know what it's like when
you live in a neighborhood where your shots are happening
at night and you're trying to figure out what's going on.
So I do understand why.
So I do understand why there might be a value to it, but we
have not as a city been able.
have not as a city been able to articulate what we want
software to do and how much you should be paying for. So
that's typically why why I pause in the conversation, but
thank you very much chairman.
Thank you. Um and I believe we do have um a committee
members that are ready to speak. Uh, let me try Alderman n
nent again.
Uh, good afternoon chairman. Can you hear me? Okay.
Uh, good afternoon chairman. Can you hear me? Okay, I can
hear you now. Perfect. Thank you chairman. I will.
hear you now. Perfect. Thank you chairman. I will be
supporting this data illustrates that res.
supporting this data illustrates that residents are
receiving life-saving care because of shot spotter.
technology alerts and they these alerts of that First
Responders, uh respond to those who need
Responders, uh, respond to those who need immediate
assistance, even if a 911 call isn't made.
assistance, even if a 911 call isn't made uh, additionally
while I have 3 police districts in my ward shot spotters
only in 1 District how
only in 1 District, however, myself and other aldermen on
the north side.
the North side do benefit from shot spotter placed in
other.
police districts because of its triangular placement, so,
even if you don't technically have shot spotter in your
ward, you are likely to have benefited from it, like for
example, I benefit from shot Spotter and other police
districts on the North side. So thank you for the
opportunity to speak. I will be supporting this.
Thank you, Alden.
thank you alderwoman nent um alderwoman Lee and then
uh followed by Alderman Chico
Thank you, uh chairman I apprec.
Thank you, uh chairman. I appreciate the opportunity to um
comment on this. Um, I want to Echo a lot of the sentiments
that have already been spoken.
that have already been spoken about the importance of shot
spotter my community certain.
spotter. My community certainly wants to continue to see
the technology, um deployed, uh, and utilized in our
community, um, and in an instance where our community
community. Um, and in an instance where our community was
impacted, um by shots spot or not in
impacted, um by shot spotter not in the 11th award but in a
different world where
a different world where um, sadly I lost uh, we our
community lost. Um 53 year old.
community lost. Um, 53 year old, uh father of 2 who was
deliver.
delivering food in Englewood. Um, and he was the
unfortunate victim of an attempted carjacked.
unfortunate victim of an attempted carjacking and um, he
was uh, he was grave.
was uh, he was Gravely injured, uh on site and was taken in
grave condition to the hospital but no police calls were
made.
made no calls to 911 were made in that instance and the
only reason um, police and EMTs
only reason um police and EMTs came out to that location
was because of shot spotter technology.
Um, so I'm a big prop.
Um, so I'm a big proponent of uh this technology. I wish we
could use that.
could use that more and I I think that this is not the only
solution let me be clear about that, but it is a very
clearly important tool. Um, and I thank you for the time.
Thank you. Ottawa woman lie, uh, the chair recognizes. Um
Alderman hall for Purp.
Alderman Chico followed by alderman
Thank you chair. Um.
Thank you chair. Um as somebody who actually
spotter, um as a patrolman
spotter, um as patrolman and as intelligence officer, I
think it's important to give my prospective on it. Um,
as a patrol officer using real time, but as an
officer trying to develop intelligence.
compile data along with other.
compile data along with other Technologies such as
social media such as license plate readers and what we did.
when we had meetings every day in these.
when we had meetings every day in these sdsc rooms was the
first thing we did was look at how many shots were fired in
the last 24 hours and we looked at how many shots of fires
in the last 7 days?
in the last 7 days do we see?
some type of uh
continuing shots shots going off in the similar area
do we dive into it. We look into it. Whose area is this
over here? What gang areas this over here?
over here? What gang areas this over here then?
We we look at.
We we look at social media then we look at LPR.
are going through the neighborhood when you couple all
that.
technology you are able to save lives.
technology you are able to save lives that's not computers
anywhere. That's not put down on any piece of paper, but we
know we're saving lives because we're developing the
intelligence or acting upon it.
And and we're sending our Patrol officers where they need
to be.
to be look we're down thousands of officers that were not
getting back. We have to look at other ways.
To save lives we have to look at other ways.
intelligence and this is a key component in that.
been doing this for years now. I'm
shot spotter in developing my intellig.
shot spotter in developing my intelligence to send not only
the beat officers from that District, but Citywide teams.
call on that extra help for the commander to call.
superintendent or the deputy. Hey we
check over here. We need more.
saving lives.
father.
shots father and I strongly support the intelligence that
gives
get out of their car and look for shell casings, right?
Okay, so
Okay. So yeah, so I know if there obviously if they see a
crime scene they will get out and respond right if people
there yes.
there yes, so in the in the event
that officers
pick up shell casings.
pick up shell casings and someone was injured.
We have ballistic.
We have ballistic information on that shell casing.
Correct. Correct? Okay, so
Correct, correct? Okay, so if that gun is using another.
Uh crime and we catch that person.
Uh crime and we catch that person can that data be used
tied to?
tied to the information that we got. Where No 1
potential shootings
Potential shootings. I'm sure it can so what typically
happens is we collect these casings and then we send it to
our ballistics lab and we actually already produce.
our ballistics lab and we actually already produce uh some
internal reports where we try to tie. Um,
internal reports where we try to tie. Um different guns to
certain more than 1 event. Obviously. Yeah.
certain more than 1 event. Obviously. Yeah, so it can't be
a crime fighting tool. All right, um,
I know you're the data guy.
Is there data out there that you can collect?
Is there data out there that you can collect that is not
being collected?
um like
Um, like I said to the other aldermen or other person, I
sorry. Um,
sorry, um there the the hardest part for us to to collect
what we when it comes to shop spider is the uh,
positives, right? How do we prove?
those uh
Those uh, those alerts that we don't have any let's say we
don't see.
don't see any crime scene. We don't find any shell casings.
How do we prove that there was in fact?
How do we prove that there was in fact, um shots fired,
right? That is the difficult.
right? That is the difficult part of collection. And that
is the kind of the 1 we struggle.
is the kind of the 1 we struggle with the most to how to
kind of work with that aspect.
kind of work with that aspect, right? So, is that the only
data that you see that's not being collected. I I will do
an exhaustive search. I will say most of like ballistic
evidence. We collect arrests. We collect people's life
saved we collect um, a lot of the other data that's on the
on the ask is already collected and I believe I guess I
guess I'm trying to nail the question, okay.
guess I'm trying to nail the question. Okay. Um,
Is there data that you?
Is there data that you see that is not being collected?
could be collected if?
could be collected if your Superior said the give me this
give me this data.
That could be helpful.
and
And again, I and I don't want you to think I'm do I don't I
can't.
can't say I don't think so though. I think a lot of this
the data we collect can be.
the data we collect can be used to produce a myriad of
different types of reports to either, you know, give some
more insights into what shot spotter is and what it isn't.
Um, I think a lot of that we have on hand and again, I
think a lot of that, I believe we have produced uh before
to this committee. Um, so it's just a matter of collecting
it aggregating but
it aggregating the data that has been collected that you
all have produced was.
all have produced was data that you were instructed by your
superiors to formulate for us. Correct? Yes, obviously, I
don't work.
don't work so I I'm not the uh, what what what's the right
word? Uh, I guess I'm not you only collect data that your
superiors. No, no, no. No, we collect all data.
obviously CBD has a pretty robust data War.
obviously CBD has a pretty robust data warehouse. We
collect all kinds of data. The data is collected. Um,
collect all kinds of data. The data is collected. Um the
and I think there's a kind of a confusion where we we talk
about data collected and data produced, uh dat.
about data collected and data produced, uh data, we collect
some data points. We don't just produce for the
production but for like the case of this,
if asked we will produce uh that data Okay, so
if asked we will produce uh that data, okay, so if I wrote
you a letter because I don't need a for you because I'm an
older. Yes. Yes, of course if I sent you a letter with
bullet points on data that I would like to have how soon
could you turn that around for me?
Uh, it depends on how big the list is so I I think it well
if we go to foyer, I'm a required to be responded 5 days so
5 days so you should be to get it to me in 3, hopefully
hopefully, okay. All right. I like I'll do my best. All
right. Well, you could be expecting a letter. Um
by the end of the day asking for data.
by the end of the day asking for data, um, you know, so we
won't have to wait 5 days. Yeah. All right. That's all.
have Mr. Mr. Chairman Bill. Are there any other questions?
or comments?
Alderman Moore, uh, did you want to hold this item or you
seek and vote on it? And I'm
seek and vote on it? I'm seeking a vote on. Okay. Thank
you. All I was just trying because I know earlier we
discuss.
discussed bringing it putting some more items on their
see you can vote if need be we can add it. Okay. Can I get
can I get a motion for the approval of this order?
so moved by Alderman spaz
all those in favor signify by saying I I I all those all
those opposed nay.
In the pain of the chair.
In the pain of the chair the eyes have it, uh this order of
this order passes.
this order passes and will be reported out at the next city
council meeting. Um before we adjourn uh, if we could go
back to item number 1, which is the modification of the age
of the Chicago.
of the Chicago police officers. Uh, let me explain. Um, the
vote that we'll be taking on this item, uh, The Substitute
that is that um was originally before the committee.
that is that um was originally before the committee The
Substitute ordinance, which you all should probably still
have.
have a copy of um in the head and it says be it order.
have a copy of um in the head and it says be it ordered by
the city council of the city of Chicago.
the city council of the city of Chicago The Substitute as
amended has the language be it ordained by the city.
Chicago speaking with the law Department the language
Chicago speaking with the law Department. The language be
it ordained is proper rather than a language be it order.
So what we have to do, uh to accept this a substitute as
amended rather or the passage of this,
amended rather or the passage of this matter rather than uh
being ordered we need to submit it as bid ordained I need
to I need a motion to reconsider that followed by we will
followed by we will do a motion to accept the substitute as
a amended then we will have a motion on the passage of
substitute as amended. So can I get a motion to?
substitute as amended. So can I get a motion to reconsider?
so moved by alderman
So moved by Alderman kadona all those in favor. I I all
those approved name.
an opinion
An opinion that chairs the eyes have it now that matter is
reconsidered.
reconsidered and resets the substitute ordinance.
reconsidered and resets the substitute ordinance now the
substitute ordinance as amended.
substitute ordinance as amended the difference again be it
ordered versus be it ordained with just within the subst.
substitute ordinance as amended. Can I get a motion to
accept the substitute as amended and to committee?
Okay, so moved by ottoman Apollo Tano.
all those
All those in favor. I
I all those opposed say nay.
and the
And the pain that the chair the eyes have it the substitute
ordinance.
ordinance as amended is before the committee.
Can I get a motion?
Can I get a motion to approve? Um or pass the substitute?
ordinance as a minutes? So moved by Alder?
ordinance as a minutes? So moved by Alderman Napolitano
again all those in favor.
again all those in favor signify by saying I
I oh those opposed nay.
And opinion of the chair.
And opinion of the chair the eyes have it. The matter is
passed the substitute.
passed the substitute ordinance as amended will be reported
out on April 17th.
out on April 17th at the next meeting of the city council.
That was a lot for 1 Word. Uh
Uh, uh any questions or comments?
There being no further hands raised. Can I get a motion to
adjourn?
so moved by often the Cardona all those
So moved by offering the Cardona all those in favor. Say I
I I all those
I all those opposed nay.
the motion carries
The motion carries the meeting of the committee on police
and fires hereby adjourned.
and fires. Hereby adjourning. Have a great day everyone.