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Public comment speakers are permitted to stand only when
providing public comment.
Small handheld devices may be used only while seated in the
US.
user must refrain from interfering with the view or hearing
of other.
of other individuals.
individuals or groups failing to adhere to these rules will
be asked to see such disruptive conduct and failure to
comply.
comply will result in there being subject to removal from
the meeting by the sergeant-at-arms.
City of Chicago city council
rules of conduct for public meetings 202023 to 20227
pursuant to the Chicago city council rules of
pursuant to the Chicago city council Rules of Order and
procedure rule 49 the sergeant at arm
procedure rule 49 the sergeant-at-arms sets forth the
following rules of conduct to be followed during the
public.
comment period and the duration of all committee and city
council.
Council meetings.
profane vulgar
Profane vulgar threatening abusive or disruptive language
is not permitted.
demeaning discrimen
demeaning discriminatory or harassing behavior in speech
directed towards others is not permitted.
disruptive behavior including disruptive or disrespectful
conduct during others presentations is not permitted.
backpacks large bags and
Backpacks large bags and sharp objects are not permitted.
clear bags
Clear bags not tinted in color that do not exceed 12 in.
6 in x 12 in will be permitted and are subject to search.
food and beverages
Food and beverages including in metal canisters are not
permitted.
Cell phones must be placed on silent.
Cell phones must be placed on silent prior to entering the
meeting room.
individuals must remain seated
public comment speakers are permitted to stand only when
providing.
providing public comment.
small hand
Small handheld devices may be used only while seated in the
user must ref.
user must refrain from interfering with the view or hearing
of other individuals.
individuals are groups failing to
Individuals are groups failing to adhere to these rules
will be asked to see such disruptive conduct.
will be asked to see such disruptive conduct in Failure to
comply will result in their being subject to remive.
comply will result in their being subject to removal from
the meeting by the sergeant-at-arms.
City of Chicago city council
rules of conduct for public meetings 2023 to 2027
pursuant to the Chicago city council Rules of Order and
procedure rule 49 the sergeant-at-arms sets for
following rules of conduct to be followed during the public
comment.
comment period and the duration of all committee and City
Council meetings.
profane vulgar threatening
Profane vulgar threatening abusive or disruptive language
is not permitted.
demeaning discriminatory or
Demeaning discriminatory or harassing behavior in speech
directed towards others is not.
directed towards others is not permitted.
disruptive behavior including disruptive or disrespectful
conduct during others presentations is not permitted.
backpacks large bags and sharp objects are
Backpacks large bags and sharp objects are not permitted.
clear bags not tinted in color that do not exceed 12 in by
6 in by 12 in will be permitted and are subject to search.
food and beverages including in metal
Food and beverages including in metal canisters are not
permitted.
cell phones must be placed on silent prior to entering the
meeting room.
individuals must remain seated
public comment speakers are permitted to stand only when
providing public.
providing public comment.
Small handheld devices may be used only while seated in the
user must refrain.
user must refrain from interfering with the view or hearing
of other individuals.
individuals or groups failing to
Individuals or groups failing to adhere to these rules will
be asked to see such disruptive conduct.
be asked to see such disruptive conduct and failure to
comply will result in their being subject to removal from
the meeting by the sergeant-at-arms.
Good morning, everyone.
The meeting on police and fire the committee on police.
The meeting on police and fire the committee on police and
fire will come to order.
We'll have a roll call to this to determine the quorum.
Vice chair Robinson
Alderman Hall
Al
alderman ventil
alderwoman Lee
Curtis
alderwoman Taylor
Alderman Mosley
alderwoman tabaris
Alderman Irving
Alderman Hall's president
Alderman Cardona
Al
alderwoman nen
Alderman the Apollo Tonneau
alderman kiten
Alderman Gardiner president veezoom
all the woman clay
all the women silver seen
all the women silver scene
Ally Pharaoh's present chairman ottoman Mitchell president
via Zoom
Okay, we have 11 members.
Okay, we have 11 members present.
And we do have a quorum present.
And we do have a quorum pursuant to rule 49 of 59
Alderman's.
Alderman's in the politano.
alderwoman tabaris
Alderwoman tabaris Alderman Mitchell Alderman Gardner, are
there any other?
there any other requests in to be heard by Zoom?
have requested to be to
Have requested to be to appear.
president for the Quorum by Z
President for the Quorum by Zoom. Can I get a motion? So
moved by Ottomans was?
moved by ottoman Sado hearing? No objections the motion
car.
carries Alderman Napolitano older woman.
carries Alderman Napolitano older woman to bars Alderman
Mitchell and Alderman Gardner.
Mitchell and Alderman Gardener will be appearing by Zoom.
We will begin our public comment. Um per
We will begin our public comment, um period we have 4 speak
5 speakers that have signed.
5 speakers that have signed up to to speak each of you will
be allotted 3 minutes. We will begin our public comment
with this Jessica.
with this Jessica Jackson. Good morning, Jessica.
Good morning. Good morning. Um.
Good morning. Good morning. Um I wanted to speak about
since this is fire. I mean police and fire. I want to speak
about 2 things.
about 2 things number 1 as it pertains to the police.
about 2 things number 1 as it pertains to the police, you
know, I'm not on this side or that side of that.
argument or whatever about police
Argument or whatever about police conduct, but I'm just
saying as a citizen I do.
saying as a citizen I do know this.
this thing about immunity that has to be addressed and it
has to be addressed for all public officials and I
has to be addressed for all public officials. And I know
that as a citizen as a person that's been in the circuit
court system. It's unbelievable that people could actually
have a job.
that guarantees their job security and guarantees that
don't get certain punishments or levels of punishment.
because they have immunity to
Because they have immunity to be able to intentionally be
negligent in.
negligent in your duties negligent.
negligent in your duties negligent in your behavior,
because you know that you won't get.
Because you know that you won't get punished for it that
needs to be looked at. There's nothing good.
needs to be looked at. There's nothing good that can come
from that. That's the only thing I really have to.
from that. That's the only thing I really have to say about
that and money that's being spent.
that and money that's being spent on lawsuits or all this
and that a lot of that probably can go away if people knew
that they could be held accountable for the things that
they do now the other side of that that I want to talk
about as it pertains to the spire.
about as it pertains to the Spire situation this situation
over here on exes this building and Greg Mitchell.
over here on exes this building and Greg Mitchell's Ward
where um that white man came the other day. I forget his
name. I think he called.
name. I think he called himself St. Chris or something like
that saying that he put those immigrants in that building
in terms.
in terms of uh in the name of being a good deed.
Samaritan my
concern is that
Concern is that a presence is not started with this.
Because there's tons of abandoned buildings on.
Because there's tons of abandoned buildings on the south
side. We all know that just like it is on the west side. So
are we really going to start with?
are we really going to start with somebody in the name of
being a good samarit?
being a Good Samaritan can just put people in a building?
stack them in there while they building codes violate
Building Safety turn a resident.
Building Safety turn a residential street into what a
shelter.
shelter Street forget about the residents that are there.
shelter Street forget about the residents that are there
have these illegal immigrants that we don't know.
about wandering up and down our street.
about wandering up and down our streets.
in the name of housing illegal immigrants
now the Buck has to the line has to be drawn somewhere now.
Alderman Mitchell, you know he's being attacked.
Alderman Mitchell, you know, he's been attacked Under Fire
about this when this man stood here that day. He didn't say
anything about Alderman Mitch.
anything about Alderman Mitchell attacking him. He didn't
say nothing about that. But after we talked about it, then
he going to run into the Sun Times with this story.
he going to run into the Sun Times with the story and the
the sometimes making him out to be some good fell.
the sometimes making him out to be some good fellow. No,
no, no, no, no. No, he had no right to put a bunch of
illegals in a building.
illegals in a building because I got 3 abandoned buildings
on my block.
and I
Know, thank you. Thank you, Jessica.
Mitchell SE
Mitchell seagull
morning morning. Hope everybody's doing well today
everybody.
Everybody had a good weekend want to piggyback off some of
the things that were.
the things that were just said, I'm going to start with the
illegal IMM.
illegal immigrants that are that are now in our city.
I think it's kind of ironic that we're awarding in.
I think it's kind of ironic that we're awarding in treating
illegal immigrants.
illegal immigrants better than our our own citizens.
Illegal, why are we awarded illegal people who are coming
here?
here undocumented, you know?
here undocumented, you know, I was I heard a report of 40
plus.
plus undocumented terrorists in the United States.
Chicago that just goes to show that there are dangerous
people here in not only are we are we giving them?
opportunities? We're rewarding them and putting them ahead.
of our hardworking citizens. We got people on the South
Side buildings that are on occup.
Side buildings that are unoccupied schools CPS children.
are losing out on their educational opportunities, and
we're a 40 and we're giving these to people who are entered
illegally and who have no ties to our city don't know
anything about our city.
anything about our city don't know anything about what
makes this city the UN.
makes this city the unique Chicago.
That it is today.
Second I want to address some of the stuff with policing.
Second I want to address some of the stuff with policing
and what's been going on.
Just for some context in 2019. There was 8.
Just for some context in 2019. There was 8 around 9,000
motor vehicle thefts 2023 30,000 almost were reported.
It's a 227% increase.
It's a 227% increase but yet we think it's smart to to.
harsher restrictions on police to to make.
harsher restrictions on police to to make it so that they
they can't pursue a car that that go, you know merely
rolling through a stop sign.
Just because it's a mere traffic violation. This is this is
unacceptable. I think that these police need to be given
more more leverage more.
more more leverage more latitude and reasonable suspicion.
is reasonable suspicion case law doesn't change if
someone's in a highlight neighborhood and they're
unprovoked we fleeing officer automatically has reasonable
suspicion.
Suspicion. Why are we changing the law? Why are these
unprecedented?
unprecedented changes is occurring making our citizens less
safe during a Time.
safe during a time of of when safety is at its at its
highest. I'm a student in Jew just last night a classmate
of mine class classmate.
of mine class classmate of mine was out at 2 am and Linkin
Park.
Park and going to 711 to get a snack after doing.
Park and going to 711 to get a snack after doing work and
she got held up at gunpoint.
she got held up at gunpoint by 2 robbers, um at around 2 in
the morning.
the morning and his scarred didn't come to class today.
I wouldn't be surprised if if those robbers were it it's
not their first time.
Thank you so much. My name is Mitchell seagull. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Seagull our next speaker.
Mor morilles Garcia
Uh, good morning my name.
Uh, good morning. My name is my name is Mari Garcia. I
currently serve as a Police District counselor for the 19th
District I come uh
District. I come uh to city council today to read a letter,
uh on behalf of over 150, uh residents that have signed
this and over a third of District counselors have signed.
This this letter is on the top.
this this letter is on the topic of a CPD work force
allocation study, which is item number 1 of discussion
today.
So here's the letter.
So here's the letter members of sha, uh, this Chicago city
council we
council. We Chicago residents and elected Police District
counselors urge you to vote for a transparent Community
informed Workforce allocation study.
informed Workforce allocation study within the Chicago
Police Department when the issue comes before you in the
city council officer salaries are the largest portion.
the CPD budget, but right now Chicago lacks a solid
understanding.
understanding of where and when to send our officers so
they can best impact Public Safety response times to 911
calls.
calls remain too high and too many neighborhoods community.
policing suffers when lack the lack of time to
the public and officers well-being a road win.
deployments lead to overwork canceled.
the
public safety. For instance a 2019 University of Chicago
crime lab stud.
crime Labs study found that 14% of shootings are happening
between midnight and 5:00 a.m. On Saturdays and Sundays and
the city's least safe areas.
the city's least safe areas, but just 3.8% of the work
hours of Chicago Police.
hours of Chicago police tactical teams were logged there
during the same time same.
during the same time same 10-hour period
in other words CPD is not deploy.
in other words CPD is not deploying officers when and where
violent crime is most likely to occur.
It the federal consent decree is also required staff.
It the federal consent decree is also required Staffing
changes to ensure CPD performs effectively in Constitution.
constitutionally the consent decree seeks to ensure that
officers have appropriate guidance by signing them to cons
to consistent super.
to consistent supervisors having Sergeant supervised no
more than 10 Patrol officers at once.
more than 10 Patrol officers at once but cpd's current
Staffing is a far cry from achieving.
Staffing is a far cry from achieving these goals a
Workforce allocation study could help map out how to
achieve these important objectives to improve policing and
Public Safety.
In addition how a Workforce allocation study is conducted.
is just as important as whether 1 is performed.
is just as important as whether 1 is performed and any any
effort to review cpd's Workforce allocation study must take
into account.
into account voices from the public including officers when
designing.
designing its goals and metrics a study will only be as
good as the questions. It seeks to answer in Chicago and
deserve a chance to help shape. The police department's
priorities. We urge that any plan to implement a Workforce
allocation study incorporate opportunities for the public
to engage some questions 19 Police District community
members.
members have already contributed include are there trends
that show extending extended working hours that may contrib
contribute to officer burnout how much time do officers
spend?
spend on administrative tasks that could be performed by
civil?
How many how can CPD better use technology to adjust?
needed to address crime likewise any study conducted?
needed to address crime likewise any study conducted should
be released to the public while being mindful to protect
offic?
officer and Community safety for too long decisions about
how our police.
how our police department operates have been kept from
public View Community. Trust requires that the public have
access to the methods and concl.
access to the methods and conclusions of any assessments of
the current state of our police department and how it can
improve going.
improve going forward. We believe many of you already
understand the need for a comp.
understand the need for a comprehensive data, uh driven
Workforce allocation study within CBD.
Workforce allocation study within CBD and you're not alone
in addition to your constituents and growing.
in addition to your constituents and growing core of voices
and Chicago have called to take this step including
Community commission for public.
Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Garcia.
Thank you. Thank you Mr. Garcia. Thank you. Our next
speaker is Lauren Jones?
Good morning, Miss Jones.
Good morning. Council members. Uh, my name is Lauren.
I'm the director of the criminal legal systems program at
impact for equ.
impact for Equity. We believe that the advancement of both
the consent.
the consent decree and a CPD Staffing analysis are
Paramount to enhancing Public Safety and police
accountability in Chicago.
to avoid pitfalls and further delays in
Endeavors. We encourage this committee to ask the hard
questions and Champion efficiency and transpar.
questions and Champion efficiency and transparency in both
the process and the outcome.
After 4 years CPD has only reached full comp.
After 4 years CPD has only reached full compliance with 6%
of its assigned Provisions in the consent.
of its assigned Provisions in the consent decree.
We are deeply concerned by the Department's lack.
We are deeply concerned by the Department's lack of
progress particularly in the areas of community.
progress particularly in the areas of community policing
data and use of force reform.
For example CPD has no uniform.
For example CPD has no uniform plan for Effective
collaboration with the District Council.
collaboration with the district counselors.
New data systems are being developed without addressing.
underlying issues in their reporting systems that currently
exists.
exists and progress has stalled on the creation of an
updated.
updated body warn camera policy.
another barrier to progress that this committee is
addressing today is the lack of data to show how CPD is
using its resources and Staffing.
In recent years Chicago has had 1 of the highest.
in recent years Chicago has had 1 of the highest police to
resident ratios in the country and in just the fact
past few months the CPD budget has increased.
past few months the CPD budget has increased by millions.
We have seen that pouring additional res.
We have seen that pouring additional resources into the
department has not translated into more.
department has not translated into more effective
management nor meaningful progress in the consent.
management nor meaningful progress in the consent decree
compliance.
We believe that any staff allocation assessment should be
done transparently.
done transparently released to the public at every possible
stage.
stage repeated regularly and assessed in partnership with
the community. This is a necessary step toward improving
cpd's compliance with the consent decree and implementing
purposeful data-driven change.
I've submitted the statement in full to the committee in
December.
December for review and um appreciate your time today.
Thank you.
Thank you, Miss Jones.
Our next speaker is Mr. George, Blakemore, Mr. Blakemore.
Good morning.
I don't know if a good morning or not.
I don't know if a good morning or not anyway.
a Chicago Police Department notorious is
A Chicago Police Department. Notorious is Grace is
look at the demographic to make up of the police
department.
50% White
40% he stands
10% black someone questioned me say now. It's 20% black.
No, no. No, we have a black n
and we have a black superintendent and we
And we have a black superintendent and we've had many black
super.
And the police department continuous?
And the police department continuously violate and Har.
and terrorize the black.
and terrorize the black community.
When will it stop?
You know who can stop it the black people.
You know who can stop it the black people and now the
police can't even.
police can't even arrest.
or illegal IMM
or illegal immigrants
what I was up to Jewel.
what I was up to jewels and 1 of these Venezuela was just
uh stealing and I asked I said, what you going to arrest
him they say no we
him. They say no we call the police the police say Don't
call them. They can't arrest them, but someone I
call them. They can't arrest them. But someone I know to
have a stolen 6 stack of beer.
a black man
And they locked him up.
And he was on 4.
months
Oh, that's terrible.
How
black people let
these people treat us.
Look at here empty seats.
Back folks should be packed here.
But you can't depend on your black.
But you can't depend on your black Altima.
Black Faces in high braking they don't represent you you
got a black male.
you
You got black ultimates you got black Commission.
You got Black Ops you got black commissioners?
black here black bear
Black here black bear black everywhere, but who's on in
control?
control the white man?
We are still on.
the white man's plant
The white man's Plantation like it or not.
a black police
A black policeman is not like a white police.
A black father is not like a white child.
All things are not equal.
All things are not equal in this city 1 of the most RAC.
All things are not equal in this city 1 of the most racist
corrupt city in America.
Chicago, is that your kind?
Chicago is that your kind of town now? I can turn my back
because there's nobody to talk to here. Well the people and
I can turn this way and they don't care.
Something is wrong here.
on the plan cake
the Masters
and we got of
and we got strong.
and we got strong black men and
life
Thank you, Mr. Blake Moore.
That ends our public speakers and I want to thank each of
you.
you for um your comments this morning.
Each of you should have received the roof 45.
Each of you should have received the roof 45 report on
December 124 meeting. Uh, that was held.
December 124 meeting. Uh, that was held on December 20, uh,
December 12th.
Uh, can I get a motion to approve the roof 45 report if
there are no.
there are no questions or comments?
so moved by Vice chair Robinson
hearing no objections
Hearing no objections the rule 45 report is ordered.
I'm sorry to rule 45 reporters approved.
There are 3 items on the agenda. Um item number 1 the
amendment of Municipal Code.
amendment of Municipal Code chapter 284 by adding a new
section to
section 2. That's 84 84050.
section 2 that's 84 84050 establishing a comprehensive
Staffing analysis for department on Police Department of
police.
police that item will be called.
police that item will be called second. The first item that
we will call is item number 2.
we will call is item number 2 subject matter hearing
regarding the independent monitoring.
regarding the independent monitoring report for January
1st, 2023.
1st, 2023 through June 30th 2023. It's the 8th semi annual
independent monitoring report.
independent monitoring report and comprehensive assessment
part 1 this is a subject matter hearing only no vote will
be taken.
be taken on this item. Can I get all the um public?
be taken on this item. Can I get all the um public speak?
Could I get all the the speakers that?
Could I get all the the speakers that uh will be speaking
to this issue to the box, please? That's Jennifer Begley.
Chief angel navales
Andrea Kirsten and Max caproni
while they are going to the box. I do want to read a
comment or I'm sorry. I do want to read a statement.
The members of this committee should be aware.
The members of this committee should be aware that the
consent decree is a negotiated settlement agreement.
the city of Chicago and the office of the
Attorney General.
there are topics related to
There are topics related to the consent decree that are part
of an ongoing.
of an ongoing and pending litigation and cannot be
discussed.
discussed in the public hearing.
because of this
Because of this there may be questions posed that can I be
answered.
answered during this hearing?
Please be cognizant of.
Please be cognizant of this when asking questions and
making remarks in.
making remarks in light of your fiduciary duty to the city.
the lack of any City responses to statements made or
questions polls during this hearing should not be constr.
questions polls during this hearing should not be construed
as the city's agreement with or acceptance of any such
statements should not be construed as an admission of any
wrong.
wrongdoing and should not be construed as a cities lack of
commitment.
commitment to achieving the goal in objectives object.
of the consent decree. I wrote that this morning.
I'm just trying to make.
I'm just trying to make you guys laugh a little bit.
All right. Um, I do want to give all of our uh guest
speakers and opportunity for opening comments. Uh, let's
limit them to about 3 minutes.
limit them to about 3 minutes each, um starting with Miss
Jennifer be
Jennifer Begley the deputy Corporation Council Public
Safety reform division.
Safety reform division City of Chicago Department of Law.
Good morning, Miss Begley. Good morning chairman my
pronouncing that right Bagley bag B, okay.
pronouncing that right Bagley bag B. Okay. Yeah. Thank you.
Good morning. Chairman Talya Ferro and members of the
committ.
committee on police and fire. My name is Jennifer be
I am the deputy Corporation Council for the public safet.
reform division of the Department of Law, and the
in my division represent.
Present the city and the consent decree litigation we advise
and counsel all of the involve.
and counsel all of the involved City entities to establish
and prove compliance.
and prove compliance with the consent decree and we advise
other City.
other City entities and Department of Law divisions on
consent decree.
consent decree related matters.
The consent decree is that negotiated settlement agreement?
between the city of Chicago and the state of Illinois and
the agree?
the agreement requires the city through CPD and other City
agencies to Institute a series of reforms designed to
increase public trust between the police and community
Through safe.
Through safe and effective constitutional policing
practices.
The consent decrees objectives are to ensure that the city
delivers Police Services to all people and a manner that
fully complies with the Constitution and Federal.
fully complies with the Constitution and federal and state
laws respects the rights of all people.
laws respects. The rights of all people builds trust
between officers and the communities they serve and
promotes community and offic.
promotes community and officer safety.
to ensure that the police officers receive the training
resources and support that they need to perform their jobs
profession.
professionally and safely.
and to ensure that the city builds a foundation of trust
through increased tra transparency and public input.
improved oversight and accountability and systems.
improved oversight and accountability and systems that
collect analyze and share data.
the consent decree covers, uh 11
the consent decree covers 11 different topics community
policing impartial policing Crisis Intervention.
force recruitment hiring and promotions.
force recruitment hiring and promotions training
supervision.
supervision officer Wellness accountability.
collection and Analysis and management.
collection and Analysis and management and investigatory
stops and enforcement of the Cities.
stops and enforcement of the city's loitering ordinances.
certain city entities have specific obligations under the
consent decree 1 of them is the Chicago.
consent decree 1 of them is the Chicago Police Department,
but there are a number of other City entities that also
have obligations that includes ccps.
have obligations that includes ccpsa.
Copa
DHR the Department of Law the mayor's office oemc Ops
DHR the Department of Law the mayor's office oemc opsa the
police board and the Inspector General who became the first
city entity to be released from the consent decree after
achieving and sustaining full compliance with their
obligations and as we
obligations. And as we talk about consent decree
obligations, it is important to note that the city is the
party to the consent are
party to the consent decree. Not any single City entity.
to achieve the goals of the consent decree we need
To achieve the goals of the consent decree. We need to all
of the city working together to reach and sustain full
compliance and even though not
compliance. And even though not named other City entities
are necessary to the city.
are necessary to the city reaching and sustaining full
compliance.
compliance is generally assessed by the
Compliance is generally assessed by the monitor in 3 levels
prelim.
preliminary secondary and operational.
Preliminary compliance is generally measured.
Preliminary compliance is generally measured by whether or
not a policy exists that addresses.
not a policy exists that addresses the requirements of the
particular paragraph.
and all CPD and Coppa policies required by the consent
decree must be approved and reviewed by the Monitor and the
Attorney General.
secondary compliance requires, um the method
Secondary compliance requires. Um, the methodology is
requiring that 95% of relevant employees be trained on
policy and you should know that every training required by
the consent decree must be approved and reviewed by the
Monitor and the attorney general and then administered to
95% of the department.
and for full operational compliance
this uh requires or it looks at whether the policy and
training are achieving the goals and objectives of the
consent decree and this requires Data Systems within the
city to collect and analyze data and to change.
city to collect and analyze data and to change policy and
training based on that data where nessus
training based on that data where necessary
Compliance is Progressive it?
Compliance is Progressive it must be moved through first
preliminary then secondary.
preliminary then secondary and then full compliance and to
success.
successfully complete the requirements of the consent
decree and be released from the consent decree. Uh, you
must achieve full compliance is sustained it for 1 to 2.
years.
the monitor assesses compl
The monitor assesses compliance with the consent decree
every 6 months in the IND.
every 6 months in the independent monitoring reports and
these reports.
these reports provide a snapshot for a 6-month period of
time.
time and the status of the city's compliance at the end of
that.
that 6 months.
the most recently published
The most recently published report by the monitor is IMR.
which was filed on November 1st 202.
which was filed on November 1st, 2023 and reflects the
city's compliance efforts for the period of January 1st
through June 30th.
through June 30th of 2023.
some highlights from imrh are the implementation of
Some highlights from imrh are the implementation of cpd's
updated use of force policy Suite.
updated use of force policy Suite as well as their
prohibition of sexual misconduct policy.
prohibition of sexual misconduct policy after extensive
review and comment by the monitor.
review and comment by the monitor attorney general and
members of the
review and approval of cpd's 2023 annual training courses
and the start of those trainings that were completed by 95%
of the department.
of the department by the end of 2023.
the completion of the stipulation between the city and the
attorney
Attorney General adding pedestrian investigatory stop.
protective Pat downs and enforcement of the city's
loitering ordinances to the consent decree.
loitering ordinances to the consent decree and completion
of the full compliance sustainment period by the Office of
the Attorney General or Inspector General
throughout IMR 8 and all of 2023 all involve City entities
and the hard-working City employ.
and the hard-working city employees dedicated to working on
the consent decree.
the consent decree continued the important work of Reform
and the City.
and the city remains committed to achieving and sustaining
full comp.
full compliance and meeting the goals and objectives of the
consent.
consent decree and is committed to achieving reform that
is felt by everyone in the city of Chicago. Thank you.
Thank you. Um Miss Bagby our next speaker. Um, Angel if we
could keep it at about 3 minutes, uh chief.
could keep it at about 3 minutes, uh, Chief Angel nabalis,
um office of constitutional policing and reform good to see
you good to see you sir. Uh, I will make sure that uh, I
try to cut some of this out to get you.
try to cut some of this out to get you a good time. So
first of all, uh, good morning chairman,
first of all, uh, good morning chairman tariro and to the
city council members that are here,
city council members that are here. Uh, I'm Chief Angel
novales chief of the office.
novales chief of the office of constitutional policing and
reform and I thank you for the opportunity.
reform and I thank you for the opportunity to speak on
behalf of the dedicated men and women of the Chicago.
department whether sworn or civilian we work together.
department whether sworn or civilian we work together to
enhance Public Safety Every Day represent.
enhance Public Safety every day representing and serving
each of our distinct neighborhood.
each of our distinct neighborhoods. Uh, we lift the
Department's mission to serve every community and protect a
lives, right?
property of all the people in the city of Chicago
It's more.
It's more than a mission. It's a vow and a promise that we
seek to fulfill. That's why we continue to work to.
seek to fulfill. That's why we continue to work to build a
stronger and transparent Department that allows for
stronger and safer communities.
and that's
And that's why today our efforts to achieve full compliance
with the consent.
with the consent decree and make lasting change in public
safety persist. There's a lot that goes into this work and
CPD.
CPD doesn't take it lightly.
in the work of Reform sometimes
In the work of Reform sometimes the goalposts changed.
but our team has never
But our team has never wavered we are doing what is
necessary.
necessary in the necessary and meticulous work to move us
forward because we know the role that law enforcement plays
in Chicago.
in Chicago is more important now than ever we are committed
to transform.
to transforming this department restoring Community Trust.
increasing Community collaboration as well as building
faith in our officers after the most recent.
faith in our officers after the most recent independent
monitoring report we C.
monitoring report we C which covered January 23rd to June
2023.
The Chicago Police Department has made notable progress.
achieving more than 85% overall.
achieving more than 85% overall compliance in 454
paragraphs.
In addition, we've reached important achievements in
several.
several sections spanning community policing training
super.
supervision officer Wellness in a number of others.
In regards to community policing we've added.
In regards to community policing we've added youth service
coordinators who began uh working closely.
coordinators who began uh working closely with our youth
liaison officers.
and
And we we worked to get them all 22.
And we we worked to get them all 22 police districts.
Uh, this is allowed.
Uh, this is allowed us an opportunity to cultivate lasting
relationships.
relationships with over 61,000 of our most vulnerable.
residents in January 23. We opened up the new joint Public
Safety Training Center.
Safety Training Center bolstering our Department's training
efforts.
training efforts. The department also added significant
personnel.
Personnel to enhance those training capabilities while
completing a review and approval of the mandatory.
curriculum this work in preparation set.
curriculum this work in preparation set the foundation for
our members to log over.
our members to log over 5 hours of inservice training.
in
In our mate in IMR 8 we continue the vital work of
refining.
numerous policies spanning general or special or
numerous policies spanning General special orders and
employee orders this work started in NMR.
employee orders this work started in NMR Aid and continues
till today some of the policies incl
till today. Some of the policies included are interactions
with children body.
with children body born cameras, and we conducted annual
reviews.
reviews began new processes and hit many of the other.
milestones in the first half of 2023.
continue to evaluate the program to improve the process.
expand further.
we are taking Health Wellness of
We are taking Health Wellness of our officers and morale
seriously the department brought.
seriously the department brought on a director of Wellness
tasked with evaluating enhancing and developing
department-wide programming and resources.
wide programming and resources further. We've already hired
18 clinicians with a goal.
18 clinicians with a goal of hiring 221 for each of our
districts a members can now receive conf
districts. A members can now receive confidential Services
through EAP in 1 of 3.
through EAP in 1 of 3 the street discrete locations around
the city the last which opened up in IMR 8
the department also rolled out the cortical Wellness app.
the department also rolled out the cortical Wellness app a
comprehensive completely confidential tool for all
Department mem.
department members to attain better physical and mental
out.
outcomes when our department members feel good they
perform.
perform well and they interact with people well
We also made numerous policy changes to the traumatic
incident.
incident stress program and began providing a ride.
wide-ranging support training to both sworn.
wide-ranging support training to both sworn and non-sworn
personnel.
We also made Edition.
We also made addition to the Tactical review and evaluation
position. Uh, and that is to help us gain that
operational compliance. We made critical additions to
increase Manpower and created a fourth amend.
increase Manpower and created a fourth amendment stop unit.
We also began hiring civilian.
We also began hiring civilians to support in that role.
In recognizing remaining challenges for the Department. We
started collecting and analyzing data on use of force
Citywide.
Citywide and at a district level in June we
Citywide and at a district level in June, we identified and
confirmed a vendor to complete the use of force data
analysis, which was a huge milestone for us.
analysis, which was a huge milestone for us additionally as
we know many of our hurdles.
we know many of our hurdles are directly tied to Staffing
shortages. We are preparing to work with in with an
independent vendor who assess our Complete Staffing needs
and and ident.
and and identify feasible Solutions. The department is also
aiming for records management system and needs your help
your support in acquiring this essential tour tool to
collect the data necessary to prove our compliance.
We have maintained.
We have maintained an maintain open and ongoing Dialogue
on.
search warrants with community members including young
adults we
adults. We dedicated the grow to growing and expand.
adults. We dedicated the grow to growing and expanding in
ways in which we can engage our communities.
Whether we're in a classroom or at the Academy.
Whether we're in a classroom or at the Academy or on a
beaten and neighborhood community policing will be front.
beaten and neighborhood community policing will be front
and center.
in closing the
In closing the Chicago Police Department is committed to
the consent decree and committed.
the consent decree and committed to the people of the city
of Chicago. So we will keep working and collaborating
having conversations and making the necessary adjustment
because we know that this equips all of us not just to
strengthen CPD.
strengthen CPD but to transform Public Safety
strengthen CPD, but to transform Public Safety, thank you.
Thank you chief.
Andrea cursed
Andrea Kirsten the chief administrator
with Coppa good
with Coppa. Good morning. Good morning. Thank you.
Chairperson Talia.
chairperson Talia farro and other members of the committee.
I appreciate the opportunity.
I appreciate the opportunity to speak here on behalf of the
civilian office of police accountability.
civilian office of police accountability or Coppa, and I'm
proud to report that Copa.
proud to report that Copa continued in its steady
compliance gains in this 8th semiannual.
compliance gains in this 8th semiannual report of the
independent monitoring team, uh, which of course as we've
discussed covered the reporting period from June of last
year.
year back to January of last year, um by our calculations,
Coppa and that reporting period achieved 100%
compliance for the paragraphs were responsible for 88%
secondary and 30% full comp.
secondary and 30% full compliance on our uh, Copa consent
decree requirements.
decree requirements in IMR 8, uh in the following
reporting.
period which ended in December of 2023 cop.
period which ended in December of 2023 Copa redoubled its
internal compliance efforts and based on init.
internal compliance efforts and based on initial drafts for
IMR 9. We do expect substantial progress in our full
compliance for that reporting period so to say in short
we're excited about the direction things.
we're excited about the direction things are going however
our consent decree work, uh mean,
our consent decree work, uh means much more than simply box
checking or
numbers it is
Numbers it is in fact, legitimized and galvanized our
investigative and trans.
investigative and transparency initiatives in countless
critical ways. Notable examples include creating a pathway
for clear.
for Clear jurisdiction of sexual misconduct and domestic
violence.
violence allegations, which is now a part of our enabling
ordinance. Thanks.
ordinance. Thanks to uh actions by this Council.
also empowering us to gain greater access to the scene and
evidence in officer involved shootings and through our
collaboration with the monitors on internal policy and
training.
training serving as a driving force in our continual
agency.
Improvement. In fact the IMT comment.
Improvement. In fact the IMT comment commended our ongoing
commitment to achieving compliance and are willingness to
be an active partner with the monitoring.
be an active partner with the monitoring team.
And finally, I'm proud that in the IM.
And finally, I'm proud that in the IMR 8 report it
showcased our outstanding Community Eng.
showcased our outstanding Community engagement efforts, uh
the report specifically highlighted Copa.
the report specifically highlighted copas work in creating
a people's academy. Uh, which it
a people's academy, uh, which it described as a valuable
Community interaction to ensure that communities confidence
and Coppa processes.
and Coppa processes continues to grow.
I hope the council continues to follow.
I hope the council continues to follow and support the
city's progress with the consent decree as it.
city's progress with the consent decree as it is a powerful
and comprehensive vehicle with policing reform.
and comprehensive vehicle with policing reform and I'm
happy to answer any questions Council may have about copas
progress. Thank you.
Thank
thank you, uh administrator, uh, that was 3
Thank you, uh administrator, uh, that was 3 minutes. I like
that.
lastly, uh, we have Max
Lastly, uh, we have Max Capone the executive director of
the Chicago Police.
the Chicago Police board Max. Can you can you beat Andrea?
I'll try. All right. Good morning chairman tell.
I'll try. All right. Good morning chairman Taylor and
members of the committee. I'm Max Capone executive.
of the police board. I'm pleased to report on the
board's progress on implementing the requirements of the
consent.
consent decree the board continues to be fully committed to
to fulfilling the goals and requirements of the de
Of the 13th. The police board is responsible.
implementing the independent monitor found in.
recent report the board to be in full operational.
compliance with 10 paragraphs and in preliminary compliance
with the other 3.
the board's achieved full compliance with the requirements
of the paragraphs on its police disciplinary hearings.
since entry of the decree in 2019 the
Since entry of the decree in 2019. The board has made
several changes to its rules of procedure and enacted other
reforms to improve the disciplinary process.
reforms to improve the disciplinary process and Report data
on the discipline.
on the disciplinary cases.
The board is also achieved full.
the board is also achieved full compliance in the area of
public meetings primarily by ensuring responsiveness to the
community's issues of concern.
community's issues of concern and by having quarterly
meetings with cop.
meetings with Coppa and the deputy Inspector General for
public.
Public Safety to discuss policy issues and possible soul.
solutions.
The 3 paragraphs for which?
The 3 paragraphs for which the board is in preliminary
compliance concerned train?
compliance concerned training.
The board is developed and continues to implement.
The board is developed and continues to implement a
curriculum for initial and annual training for board mem.
members and hearing officers on a variety of topics incl
including Police use of force the Fourth Amendment Pro.
procedural Justice and community outreach.
With assistance from our pro bono outside Council and Coppa
we're completing the final 2 train.
we're completing the final 2 trains on procedural Justice
slash impartial policing.
slash impartial policing and on investigations.
the board plans to
The board plans to have all required training modules in
place and available.
place and available to board members and hearing officers
by June 30 of this year. And as new board members are added
they'll also receive training.
We're also working with the city.
We're also working with the city to develop a policy and
training which is required by 1 of the final paragraphs.
Thank you very much for your consideration of this report,
and I'm happy to respond to any.
and I'm happy to respond to any questions you have on the
boards progress and
boards progress. And what's the time on that? Thanks Max.
You did good. We also have officer Mosley joining us.
You did good. We also have officer Mosley joining us today.
I I I thought officer Mosley. I'm sorry.
I I I thought officer Mosley. I'm sorry not also Mosley.
Alderman MOS
Alderman Mosley, I I thought he had gone to Park Ridge and
bought that win.
bought that win in lotto ticket, but now that he showed up.
Uh, I think he didn't he's not the winner.
All right, are there any questions and comments?
All right, are there any questions in comments?
you guys
You guys are doing a great job. There's no C questions in
comments.
Any questions in comments?
All right. I I just have 1 um, Angel. Could you give me I
know when Andre?
know when Andreas um
in Andreas opening remarks she gave percentages as to
in Andreas opening remarks, she gave percentages as to um
how her department or how her organization was, uh, how
well they were fairing under the consent decree.
have statistics as far as the percentage of compliance?
have statistics as far as the percentage of compliance and
non-compliance? Yeah, actually I do.
non-compliance? Yeah, actually I do so for the RMR 8 period
uh, we were if I can get that. Give me 1 second. I have
those.
those numbers here for you.
I'm sorry.
I'm sorry, Angel, could you speak up a little bit chief?
I said yes. I actually have those numbers for you for ir8.
So.
So if you can give me 1 second I could get to them, okay?
So if you can give me 1 second I could get to them. Okay,
um right away.
So, uh, sir, we were roughly at 85.
so, uh, sir, we were roughly at 85% in some level of
compliance, uh in
compliance, uh encompassing, um preliminary compliance.
compliance, uh encompassing, um, preliminary compliance.
Uh, we were roughly, uh, 29% in second.
Uh, we were roughly, uh, 29% in secondary compliance and
uh, approximately what was that? What was that second
percentage 26 26 26
percentage 26 26% in what area secondary secondary 5% in
operational compliance.
and uh
And uh as I look through these numbers, uh, if I have to
make any corrections, I will let you know sir.
opponent of clarification
Opponent of clarification. Um
alderwoman Taylor
So, I'm sorry, go ahead.
Hi, um, thank you for the.
Hi, um, thank you for the question. Um secondary compliance
means that 95% of of the department has been trained in a
approved training that encompasses the requirements of the
policy that got preliminary compliance. So you're asking
the definition or are you asking the number?
Okay.
says and he said 2
Says and he said 29% so I'm a little confused.
Sure. So, um
We moved through the consent.
We moved through the consent decree right as a Continuum of
compliance level.
of compliance levels. So preliminary compliance means that
there is a policy, um an approved policy that encompasses
the requirements of that paragraph in the consent.
the requirements of that paragraph in the consent decree,
um, because that's the concentrate is focused on those
particular requirements that are laid out.
paragraphs. So, um, I think the the rough number while
Chief nollies looks for his chart was approximately 85%
that the department has achieved preliminary compliance. So
they've addressed 85% of um of the paragraph requirement.
through the policy level then once you
through the policy level, then once you achieve preliminary
compliance it grows from there to secondary compliance and
the requirement then to achieve second.
the requirement then to achieve secondary compliance. Is
that the department develops and has approved by the
Monitor and the attorney
Monitor and the Attorney General a training that addresses
the require.
the requirements of that particular paragraph most trained.
trainings cover more than 1 paragraph, obviously.
then you have to train 95%
of the department to achieve secondary compliance with that
particular.
particular requirement or paragraph So, I believe he um, he
quoted and he's double-checking. Uh, they believed.
end of IMR 8 which was as of June 30th of 2023. They were
at uh, they had satisfied secondary compliance with 26.
at uh, they had satisfied secondary compliance with 26% of
the required period
rap
Graphs and then Fuller operational compliance is the ability
to anal.
to analyze through data.
whether the policy
Whether the policy and training are working and to make the
nessus.
necessary changes or operationalize those Pollock.
necessary changes or operationalize those policies and
trainings. So again, it's a progression.
trainings. So again, it's a progression, um that you have
to first hit preliminary then secondary before you can get
to Fuller operational compliance.
Um, Additionally you should see.
Um, Additionally you should see the levels of secondary
compliance especially for CP.
compliance especially for CPD be higher at the end of the
calendar year because the training requirements for the
Department. Um, they are required to provide 40 hours of
annual inservice train.
annual inservice training to all department members and it
takes to do in-person training can take a big chunk of
the year to administer that training so
the year to administer that training. So typically the
secondary compliance numbers are are higher slightly at the
end of the calendar year, so
end of the calendar year. So I know that's a lot of words.
I hope that answered your question. Nope. It really doesn't
um, is it possible we can get that?
um, is it possible we can get that report through the chair
because I'm maybe I don't understand your
apologize. So my question is he said you so he said you all
are 29 or 26% at the second level of I'm asking what is
actually that second level because that's 26% is not a lot.
you you went from saying y'all 85% in
Y'all 26% or 29 in compliance. I'm trying to figure out what
is that?
is that second level a compliant. Can you explain to me
what that looks like? So secondary compliance looks like
training.
training 95% of the department in the requirements.
training 95% of the department in the requirements of that
particular paragraph So when people talk about percent
of the paragraphs the consent decree is a is almost 900
paragraphs not all of them are monitor.
paragraphs not all of them are monitorable, but that that's
the the the world of the of what's in the document. You
said they're not all Moines.
said they're not all monitorable not all monitorable. Um,
some of them are definitions. Some of them are you know,
um, how
um how the mechanics of how it's going to work but of the
monitorable par?
monitorable paragraphs what Chief novalis said was that the
department had achieved, um, at least preliminary
compliance with 85% of the of the consent degree.
Added a 900 how many?
so it it also kind of
So it it also kind of varies some requirements are annually
some requirements are.
some requirements are um every 6 months. So the monitor
will paragraphs for the total of 550 people 55.
chairman tell apparel, um actually got
chairman tell a perro, um actually got to have the report
with me here. So it's 85% uh in some level of compliance
29.
29% secondary compliance, uh and operational comp
29% secondary compliance, uh, and operational compliance is
actually 6% 6.
actually 6% 6%
This is the end of June 20.
This is the end of June 2020, correct?
Do you know how many paragraphs that?
Do you know how many paragraphs that we have with regard to
operational compliance?
So paragraphs and operational compliance are 32 paragraph.
in operational 13. I'm sorry 3
And you're at 6% compliance, correct? Okay. Thank you.
Are there any other questions alderwoman?
Are there any other questions alderwoman Taylor I got
questions about the training. Are you all having offices?
Go back to the do solo Museum?
I know that uh, and I don't want to speak for the
superintendent, but the superintendent in terms of having.
the officers go back to the do solo Museum.
I didn't hear you. Say it again. I said I can't speak for
the superintendent. But the last conversations that we had
there is intent to go back to the doo Museum. I would like
that information through the chair because that's
imperative to to win your officers.
imperative to to win. Your officers are in Black
communities. You don't understand black communities.
communities. You don't understand black communities then.
you're trailing with a eye that you
You're trailing with a eye that you definitely don't
understand and I remember talking to.
understand and I remember talking to officers and them
saying that that was an important part of them, um being in
our communities and the thought that you all stopped that
training.
training I I hope that's something y'all measuring because
that's that's not a good measure.
I have a question around.
Um, I well through the chair. Can you give us the breakdown
of officers by?
of officers by race? Um in every Ward?
of officers by race? Um in every Ward, um that that's
another major issue. It seems like we don't have officers
who are actually from our community. So you ain't from our
community you drive into it.
community you drive into it you you're ultimately a
stranger and how you look at our community.
tends to be
Tends to be not in the most Pleasant way. We like if we
let's have a real conversation about race. And so if I'm in
my community.
my community and I'm looking at officers don't look like
me, of course.
me, of course that sometimes causes people to run like
because that's the biggest.
because that's the biggest Point people run. They they
Trail and when we're looking at these lawsuit,
Trail and when we're looking at these lawsuits a lot of it
was that person ran.
was that person ran that's because in our community, we're
taught to be scared of the police. We're we're not taught
that you going to Serve and Protect.
that you going to serve and protect us and so we got to
have a real conversation about how you all trained officers
to work in certain neighborhoods. So,
would like to see race.
would like to see race and makeup and age, um around
officers in East District also,
the amount of officers that are
the amount of offices that are compliant by Ward because
sometimes I if you talk to officers from different Wards,
those are different experiences, and I also want to make
sure that you all are training everybody. So I want to see
more about ward of that 85% that you talked about.
more about ward of that 85% that you talked about how many
of those folks are actually trying?
Oh Al.
Oh Alderman, uh just for for point of clarification.
oh Alderman, uh just for for point of clarification, uh, you
are looking for the total number of officers that are in a
districts that have taken the training. Absolutely. Okay,
and the specific training is the 40-hour required.
and the specific training is the 40-hour required training.
I mean, it's yeah, you say they all 85 or 80. I'm sorry. I
don't want to mess up the numbers either 85 or 89.
compliant who?
Yeah, so 8 85% compliance is in the paragraphs of the cons.
consent decree when it comes to training the 40 hours.
identified training 95% of the overall.
identified training 95% of the overall department has to
have that training which we have.
have that training which we have met that that Benchmark,
uh the that
uh, the that 5% They could be a plethora of reasons why
those officers weren't able to attend whether they are
long-term leave.
long-term leave whether they are on Extended Medical.
long-term leave whether they are on Extended Medical leaves
or some form of leave, uh, then those individuals
or some form of leave. Uh, then those individuals wouldn't
be trained but 95% of the department receive.
be trained but 95% of the department received the 40 hours
required training.
Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Thank you all the woman.
Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Thank you. All the woman tailor.
Uh, just very quickly Chief. Um, you said 6% operational
goals have been met, you know.
goals have been met. Do you know why that number is so low.
Well, um.
chairman
so when we're going through the process the methodology
process, uh, we we can't skip steps so when you look at
uh, gaining preliminary compliance, um, we have to either
draft or review.
draft or review a policy which then is submitted to the uh,
independent monitoring team and the oag there is a 30-day
window in which they can provide feedback on those
policies. Uh, sometimes the feedback may be minimal.
Sometimes it could be fairly extensive then we have a very
brief window of of I believe it's 14 days to respond to
those comments and this may be repeated.
those comments and this may be repeated until we receive
what is called a no objection letter which allows us to
post that policy for public comment. Then what we do is we
take the public comment. We synthesize that information and
then see areas.
then see areas where we can incorporate that feedback. So
that usually takes a length of time. Uh, the next step is
the way uh councilman. Um, I'm sorry councelor here, uh,
explain
Explained is running through that same process.
secondary compliance in which we create the training.
secondary compliance in which we create the training that
addresses that policy and it goes through that.
addresses that policy and it goes through that same process
where we submit with the train.
where we submit with the training is the IMT and the oeg
provides their input and feedback. Sometimes they might be
uh issues that have to be changed such as
Sometimes it could be how that training is. Admin.
whether we're using tabletop exercise scenar.
then we attempt to address that
And then finally then it goes to our to our talk which is
our training oversight committ.
our training oversight committee. And then uh the tack
which is the same Pro.
which is the same process with community members in order.
to start to walk into operational compliance. So,
these paragraphs, we have to follow those steps which
extends that timeline that's why the goal is operational
compliance, but it will always look smaller because we have
to achieve those steps.
to achieve those steps in each of the levels this big. Um,
back beat. Do you know, um at what?
a percentage of compliance
Um does our department have to be at before?
Um does our department have to be at before we are released
from the consent decree.
because I I would and I I asked because uh with with 6%
compliance and we this is our third Administration that is
dealt with um, uh that has the deal deal with the
decree. Uh, we're looking at 17 to 25.
decree. Uh, we're looking at 17 to 25 years, uh to get to a
significant.
significant percentage of compliance in oper.
significant percentage of compliance in the operational
goals. And so do you know what the goal uh requirement is
of the uh,
of the uh independent monitor before we released from the
consent decree sure, so,
consent decree sure. So when the consent decree was
initially drafted there wasn't an arbitrary timeline put
into the consent decree for when it would be completed and
at that time it was March of 20.
at that time it was March of 2024 and then when uh search
Warr
warrants were added to the consent decree back in um,
of 2022.
That term was extended to June 30th of 2027. That is the
target.
target for uh reaching full compl.
target for uh, reaching full compliance with everything and
as you know the chief.
as you know, the chief was explaining as I tried to explain
imagine the
imagine, the the levels of compliance are like buckets is 1
fill up.
fill up and gets full then it spills into the next and it's
growing. Um, and so the goal is always that the levels of
compliance of operational compliance.
compliance of operational compliance are growing as we move
through the uh compliance period
through the uh, compliance periods and once we um, get the
data systems,
data systems in place that it should speed up. So the goal
is uh, March, I'm sorry, June 30th.
is uh, March, I'm sorry, June 30th of 2027. Um, the city
has to sustain compliance full compliance for 1 to 2 years.
to be released from a particular section or have an entity
released from the consent decree.
Thank you. And thank you Chief. Yeah, uh chairman.
could add 1 thing to that, uh, if you look at cities across
the country, uh, and I'm going to take Los Angeles.
the country, uh, and I'm going to take Los Angeles as an
example with 187 access.
example with 187 accessible paragraphs. I took the city of
Los Angeles.
Los Angeles, you know, a a very well-funded Police
Department approximately.
Department approximately 12 years to complete the consent
decree, and I'll look
decree and I'll look at the the second, uh, Detroit, uh,
decree and I'll look at the the second, uh, Detroit, uh at
20066 assessable paragraphs.
20066 assessable paragraphs, it took them 13 years. So, you
know,
know is the city of Chicago we we're we're committed
but the process it is an arduous.
but the process it is an arduous 1, um, but I wanted to put
it into context
We're halfway there. Um.
All the women knew it.
Thank you chairman, I think.
um when we do these briefings
I think you guys present really good information.
But unless you are.
completely
Completely involved in the consent decree. I don't think my
colleagues.
colleagues can.
quite frankly really appreci
Quite frankly really appreciate the breadth and death of
the magnitude of what's Happening.
the magnitude of what's happening. So
if you'll just go down a rabbit hole with me for a second
chairman.
chairman if you take the Chicago's consent decree, which
has roughly 800 paragraphs and if you drew.
has roughly 800 paragraphs and if you drew a box if you
made a list from 1 to 800.
made a list from 1 to 800 and you drew 3 boxes to the right
of each number.
of each number, the first box would be preliminary the
second would be secondary and the third would be oper.
operational.
Okay.
Now if I heard what the folks in the Box said correctly,
we're 85.
we're 85% complete with preliminary. That means that we as
we're 85% complete with preliminary that means that we as a
city have completed 680 out of 800 of those paragraphs. So
that is a big deal. I just don't think we're doing a good
enough job of like explaining it and then if you go to
secondary we've completed 2
secondary, we've completed 29% which if we're going off of
800 paragraphs, I'm just guessing that's 232.
800 paragraphs, I'm just guessing that's 232 completed
paragraphs of the 800 and then if we go to the third
operational if we're at 6% out of 800 that is
We have over 800 paragraphs. I think if memory 187 is Los
Angeles, that was the requirement.
Angeles. That was the requirement. Yeah, 187 accessible
paragraph 2 years.
paragraph 2 years 266 paragraphs for Detroit, which is 13
years. So by no means am I saying that we're perfect.
years. So by no means am I saying that we're perfect as a
city, but I I think it behooved.
city, but I I think it behooved my friends in the Box to
maybe do a little chart for us because that's how I have to
look at it to understand where we are with comp.
look at it to understand where we are with compliance. And
again, we we are not perfect but we are we are making
significant progress, but we theoretically have to comply
with 2400 paragraphs. Um, so I think that's just important.
when we're looking at it as a body to to understand. So um,
and I I certainly appreciate that. Um, if you look at the
Mone the independent monitors,
Mone the independent monitor was reporting and I don't want
to reference this latest 1, um, but the independent monitor
has consistently criticized the the the the pace at which
we will become a compliant and um, but I I can't recall
what she uh with the independent monitor
Has said regard?
has said regarding this particular report. Um, but I I
can't I can't say that in the past. Uh that has been a
Critic.
criticism of um, not just an independent monitor, but
a few um Advocate organizations as well.
a few um, Advocate organizations as well that that have
we've been we have been slow.
we've been we have been slow at reaching our goals. So I
just want to make that point as well. Thank you. Thank you
chairman. Are there any other questions in comments?
alderman
Alderman Ervin
Thank you, uh could.
Thank you, uh could uh, someone speak to uh, speak to the
issue around.
issue around, uh loitering that was uh brought up in the uh
report this round.
Thank you for the um for the questions. So um over.
summer, um in uh, we we've wrapped it up in June. There was
a a settlement before city council, uh related to
enforcement of the loitering ordinances and and combined.
with that settlement um investigatory.
with that settlement, um, investigatory stop practices and
enforcement of those loitering ordinances.
enforcement of those loitering ordinances were put into the
consent decree so that those Pollock
consent decree so that those policies surrounding, um, how
how the policies are are how those ordinances are enforced.
how the policies are are how those ordinances are enforced,
um is under review by the Monitor and the Attorney General
so it's not didn't end the enforcement of the ordinances.
It's just looking at the documentation and um, and how
officers are trained to enforce those ordinances.
and after uh implementation of a specific
And after uh implementation of a specific item or those
items are brought up. Does anyone do any statistical
analysis as to how?
analysis as to how officers are either utilizing or
utilizing a specific? Um,
function that is now under
Function that is now under the microscope of the independent
monitor.
alderman
Alderman that that's a great question. I I think that all
falls in the operational compliance in order for us to be
oper.
operational compliance. Not only do we have the to have the
policies.
policies in place the training in place, but we have to go
out and do it.
out and do it collect the data that we're doing it
analyzed.
it uh and make the necessary changes to ens.
it uh and make the necessary changes to ensure that we're
doing it in the most effective manner that mirrors would be
what the consent decree requires.
what the consent decree requires of us. Uh, so that will
occur uh, during that operational portion. Um, and that's
where that RMS system really really will be helpful to us
because it'll help us collect.
because it'll help us collect the data in a unified manner
make it easy for us to doubt data validate that where we
can anal.
can analyze properly and make the necessary Corrections.
The goal of the consent decree is to make the Chicago
Police Department a a self-correcting agency. Uh, and
you're 100% right on that analysis.
you're 100% right on that analysis needs to happen and it
needs to happen for us to be
compliance.
when you look at operational compliance, um
are
even though we're
Even though we're seeing we may see operational compliance.
in some areas. What does that?
in some areas. What does that mean for the quality?
in some areas. What does that mean for the quality of
policing that exists and and I use the case and point. I'll
go back to the Lord. And since I I've kind of um looked at
this in the past. Um what I find is that officers are not
uh readily wanting to inform
uh readily wanting to enforce lawyering in the way that
it's proposed because of the cumbersome steps that may
exist in order to effectuate. Um
action on it
Um, do we ever look at?
um, do we ever look at how or make recommendations as to
what could be changed to make the
Enforcement easier. Uh, so
Enforcement easier, uh, so that the these things become
more user.
more user-friendly because the the 1 thing that
1 may just choose not to do is to not enforce because if I
don't enforce I don't have to jump.
don't enforce I don't have to jump through all these hoops
and what residents tell us. Is that hey.
They're not seeing the enforcement and the question.
They're not seeing the enforcement and the question that I
will raise is is the lack of enforcement being driven by.
the cumbersome steps that exist in order to effectuate
enforcement in the manner in which we have prescribed.
enforcement in the manner in which we have prescribed or do
we need to take a look at?
we need to take a look at how we can meet those same
objectives in a more in a less cumbersome manner.
uh councilman that that question I'll try to
Uh councilman that that question I'll try to answer it
twofold. Uh number 1. Um, you know with anything new there.
Is that learning?
is that learning curve that the officers have to go
through? So we
so we have to ensure that the training uh is is not only
good training, uh, but it covers all the bases. So the
officers develop that confidence level to go.
officers develop that confidence level to go out and engage
in whatever practice we're training them on in this case.
You're you're talking about the uh,
You're you're talking about the uh enforcement of the
ordinance. Uh, so that that is incredibly important is is
that learning curve?
that learning curve so 1 that they know exactly what
they're doing.
they're doing that they feel comfortable doing it, uh, and
second of all when we look at the recommendations made, uh,
we're
we are always looking at those recommendations is
that they support, uh ordinances, uh,
that they support, uh, ordinances, uh, state law or any
law. That's a mun.
law, that's a municipal law to make sure that it
things. It has some additional reporting requirements, but
I believe that this is something that we can address.
I believe that this is something that we can address in
training and making them comfortable enough so they have
that confidence.
that confidence to go out, uh and engage in uh, in whatever
practice we're addressing.
Um what so let's let's just take a step back. Um,
What is something that?
We were doing 1 way.
Change that and then have to change it again.
Change that and then have to change it again because we're
going through the process of training and we find that.
going through the process of training and we find that what
we thought it was was not what what are some examples of
where you all have made those adjustment.
where you all have made those adjustments on on on policy
or or ordinance enforcement.
So let's let's take um in this case the
So let's let's take um, in this case the uh, the ordinance
this is why it's really important.
this is why it's really important to follow the steps in
the consent decree when we ensure that we we thoroughly vet
that policy. So when we train them on it the training
directly reflect,
directly reflects what that policy is that way when the
officers go out and actually engage in the
They're not only following the policy, but following the
training now in that operational, uh, when we get to that
operational level is where what you're talking about is
then beginning to analyze that so what we've done in the
Chicago Police Department as a result of the stipulation is
we put together a fourth amendment.
we put together a fourth amendment stop unit. Uh, and that
is a series.
is a series of reviewers that are reviewing those
practices. They're identifying
buying areas where they
Buying areas where they debrief the officers, right? Let's
say if the performance is not exactly what we want it to
be.
say if the performance is not exactly what we want it to be
they make those recommendations whether it's a review.
they make those recommendations whether it's a review of
re-review of policy or retr.
re-review of policy or retraining we make sure that the
officers get that so they're out there.
officers get that so they're out there doing it correctly
so that Fourth Amendment stop unit in that example is
actually looking at what the officers are doing assessing
in ensuring that it conforms to policy it conforms to
training so that the officers are doing what they're
expected to do.
and I think to Alderman just
What the department has been growing at doing?
What the department has been growing at doing as we work
through the consent decree is as they're building.
policy. They're they're building the tools.
policy. They're they're building the tools that they will
need to to document it oper.
need to to document it operationally so that the things are
growing together.
growing together and they're looking at both at the same
time, correct?
um
so this is a
So this is um, I guess I'll call it a state of.
Improvement. Um and what?
at what point do
At what point do we get I guess feedback from the officers.
feedback from the community.
feedback from the community on our
compliance on certain matters because on paper we could be
compliant, but if the if
compliant but if the if the
desired outcome is
Desired outcome is not reached but on paper.
Desired outcome is not reached but on paper we are
operationally compliant. How do we um,
how do we reconcile those?
how do we reconcile those 2 items?
So under the consent decree the monitor.
So under the consent decree, the monitor herself does do uh
Community engagement.
Community engagement and does survey the community, um
throughout the consent decree process to see what sentiment
is.
is um in those in in those surveys.
is, um in those in in those surveys through um through her
work and then the department um in a chief developers can
speak to the Department.
speak to the department growing its ability to engage, uh,
the community. Let me say this if if the if the monitor
walked in this room right now, I wouldn't have a clue.
walked in this room right now, I wouldn't have a clue as to
who he or she uh,
who he or she uh is. Um, I've never seen a survey. I've
never seen or never been to a meeting. I don't think I've
been invited to a meeting to talk.
invited to a meeting to talk through that so I have no
idea.
who this individual who's supposedly
idea who this individual who's supposedly monitoring, uh,
what level of feedback is being solicited from residents or
from anybody in that respect other than them, you know
riding their report every
to every 6 months
certainly, we need to make sure that uh that the body of
people who are getting the the man wanted to ever been the
committee Mr. Chairman. I don't the the concentrate per
prohib.
prohibits her ability or limits her ability to speak
publicly.
publicly Beyond what's in the report but
publicly Beyond what's in the report? But um, yeah, I agree
they do. Um
Attend where they do have public meetings, though.
Attend where they do have public meetings though. Um after
each monitoring report is released, I believe there's
each monitoring report is released. I believe there's a a
public gathering with the independent.
public gathering with the independent monitoring team and
the public to discuss um of some of the matters
the public to discuss, um of some of the matters that were
discussed in the report.
but no, um mistake is
But no, um mistake is never appeared, but she will and
she's willing.
she's willing because I've talked to her several times.
I'll speak with anyone.
speak with anyone that calls with regard to her report.
But they don't come here. No.
to talk to
us or solicit feedback from us on
what?
What is or isn't happening?
you and you're
You and you're saying that's not allowed or is it?
What?
What what is what is the proper termination?
there are limitations in the concentric group because
this is ongoing litigation.
is ongoing litigation about her ability to
to maybe testify publicly but the community engagement.
opportunities which include everybody um,
opportunities, um for her to hear from members of the of
the community, um, and we need to make sure that those are
brought to everyone's attention that you all are aware of
everything. So so you said her her her work is not subject
to cross-examination or
any
conversation in the Public Public
conversation in the public public setting uh before
Anyone, is it only by the court?
anyone, is it only by the court or
is it?
is it I'm assuming this is a court monitor. So there's no
other form for.
other form or
review, um, or
any other
place where 1 could ask questions or
obtain Clarity or is it?
obtain Clarity or is it just 1 person's view of?
whatever is going on, I mean
That that just seems odd in in this.
that that just seems odd in in this in this respect the so
the monitoring team is comprised of the the Monitor and
an entire team of um of subject matter experts. Um,
work with the monitoring team. There are um Court hearings
which are held. Um,
public in-person court hearings which are held
Public in-person court hearings which are held quarterly in
federal court where the public?
federal court where the public um comes um, and is able to
make comments and where the parties including the monitor
all make public statements.
all make public statements about the status of the consent
decree, and the
decree and the work that's being done. We have recently
instituted through uh, judge palmyre. Who is the the judge
handling?
handling the matter that there are now monthly status
hearings, which
hearings which are held virtually where uh, the monitor, um
makes remarks the city makes remarks and the Attorney
General also makes remarks on on a specific aspect of the
consent decree. And then the members of the monitoring team
have uh, public listening.
have uh, public listening sessions and um public engagement
event.
events, uh and opportunities to to dialogue with the
community about the work that's being done on the consent
decree, but in terms of uh, public testimony, uh deposition
like,
like questioning, I think that's where we get into the
legal. Um, the the lawyerly
then um
short of so we we can't talk to the monitor. Um, and you
all are just providing.
all are just providing an interpretation of what the
monitor is telling us.
telling us. We are in compliance or out of compliance, uh
with um, do we uh have any other
forms for
feedback on the monitor support. I know this.
feedback on the monitor support. I know this, uh, subject
matter here can be 1 but how do how do officers residents
stake?
stakeholders, uh provide feedback?
stakeholders, uh provide feedback to the department on
compl?
compliance or lack thereof or what the impact?
compliance or lack thereof or what the impact of the
implementation of certain aspects of the uh of the report.
of the decree is Council.
of the decree is councilman. Um, and I think it's always an
opportunity.
opportunity whenever any policy is posted, uh, whether it's
on public postings online whether it's delivery dialogues.
Um, or
um, or uh, you know, whatever engagement that we get.
we encourage the members of the community to come in and
provide.
provide their feedback, but I think that is also a great
good Avenue,
good Avenue where they can express those particular issues
when it comes to compliance or or anything in that.
when it comes to compliance or or anything in that realm,
uh, I want to touch on a question that you made earlier.
what we're doing for the officer so 1 of the things that we
found,
that's that's been helpful for Ross is
groups. For example when it comes to field training.
groups. For example, when it comes to field training
officers, you know, we've hosted focus groups with field
training.
training officers, uh, when we talk about unity and command
span of control every districts that we rolled out to.
span of control every districts that we rolled out to we've
hosted focus groups with the officers because we believe
strongly that the officers input is ALS
strongly that the officers input is also important because
sometimes we may put a policy together that we believe it's
a great policy, but when we speak to those officers,
are putting it into operational that feedback is ALS
are putting it into operational that feedback is also
Incorporated, uh, and that it was just 2 examples.
Incorporated, uh, and that it was just 2 examples on where
we do it. Uh, but once again, uh, you know Alderman, we you
know, we will make sure that this body is notified whenever
we put policies up for public posting we welcome, uh, your
input we actually want input for All 4.
input we actually want input for All 4 corners of the city
not just certain areas. So we will make sure that we can
get that out to you so you can help get that the word out
to your constituents as well.
all right, uh
All right. Uh, uh, I'll
uh do a little more offline, but
Uh do a little more offline, but thank you Mr. Chairman.
Thank you. Uh Alderman Ervin.
Are there any more questions or comment?
Are there any more questions or comments?
Let me just read. Um, very
let me just read um, very quickly and and uh Council if you
can let me know whether I'm um, correct in Reading.
This is a report from the Tribunal.
I'm saying in the first half of 2023.
the
The monitor chain team found the department was in
preliminary compl.
preliminary compliance with 279 of the decrees 552 monitor.
monitorable paragraphs.
secondary compliant was
Secondary compliant was found in 160 paragraphs.
while
While the CPD was in full compliance with 3.
While the CPD was in full compliance with 33 paragraphs. No
complaint was no.
complaint was no complaint was reached in 74 paragraph.
about 6 more remained under assessment.
And then later it also describes What preliminary second?
secondary and full compliance means preliminary second?
and full compliance preliminary compliance signifies?
That CBD has developed a training curric.
That CBD has developed a training curriculum.
secondary compliance means the
Secondary compliance means the training has been
implemented and full compliance mean.
implemented and full compliance mean that it's a part of
the police department day to
the police department day-to-day operations. I'm not saying
that report.
that report has any truth. Um, it was a report by this of
Chicago Tribune. But uh,
Any response to that?
Uh numbers don't sound uh accurate based on the report.
uh numbers don't sound uh accurate based on the report and
what you've heard today and those definitions of the
compliance levels also seemed a little. Um, okay be not
quite accurate. Are there any more questions?
quite accurate. Are there any more questions and comments?
chairman almond of palano
um ottoman Curtis followed by Alderman Napolitano Al
Um ottoman Curtis followed by Alderman Napolitano Alderman
Curtis first. All right. Thank you. Um
I've uh, thank you chairman. I've I've um
I am satisfied with the progression.
I am satisfied with the progression though since uh of the
consent.
consent decree, and I'm also listening to uh, automate
Irvin and
and I've also heard the chief.
and I've also heard the chief kind of answer and also so I
think it's it'll be really important.
think it's it'll be really important uh for us to receive.
like similar to the graph
that Alderman, uh, Nan is talking about so people can
really understand it because as Alderman Ervin has been a
really understand it because as Alderman Irving has been a
super champion of push.
super champion of pushing his uh,
super champion of pushing his uh ordinance for lording.
uh, those officers has to be
Uh, those officers has to be comfortable even though they've
met have been trained.
may have been trained already. They have to be comfortable.
to carry out that portion of the operation.
basically in that paragraph So
Uh, is there something that?
that goes on day-to-day with the fto anything that will
push officers
uh in a place where they feel that.
uh in a place where they feel that it's okay to to
to do more with with with being uh in compliance with uh,
with Ling.
that way
That way ottoman Iran can say I see them out there?
That way ottoman Iran can say I see them out there they
are. Um, uh,
are. Um, uh enforcing Ling.
uh, uh and and and the and the general public could
that I think that's what chairman IR.
that I think that's what chairman Ervin is alluding to when
he talks about.
he talks about the lording origins.
yes, I I I
Yes, I I I think once again, I I go back to the training.
Uh
uh, not only training our officers which we do we also
train our supervisors as well. Uh, and and we want them
when when the legal burdens exist, uh for that enforcement
for those officers to take that enforcement. Um, but I
think if we properly train them properly trained our super
supervisors, then they are comfortable 1 the offic.
supervisors, then they are comfortable 1 the officer are
comfortable and carrying it out. But also the supervisors
are comfortable in motivating them to do. So once again, it
has to be
it has to be constitutionally. It has to meet the legal.
burdens, uh, but not nothing in the stipulation says that we
can't enforce the ordinance. It's just given us a way of 1
how to properly reported too, um how to properly document,
uh those uh Inc
uh, those uh incidents, uh, when the officers are taking
that enforcement
taking that enforcement. All right.
That was it for me. Thank you chairman. Thank you Al.
Napolitano.
Thank you chairman.
Thank you chairman, uh couple of really quick questions,
and I apologize if it's
I apologize if it's been asked already. I'm I'm going
between 2 things.
between 2 things here. Um,
has there been a consistent collaboration?
has there been a consistent collaboration between the
Monitor of the consent decree?
Monitor of the consent decree and the unions um, is that
document?
documented on on those meetings or?
documented on on those meetings or those those visits or
those uh talking?
those uh talking 2 points and uh solo are
those uh talking to points and uh solo are you with us?
Yeah, can you hear me?
Oh, yeah. Thanks a lot. We appreciate it, and we're moving
on. Can you hear me? We can hear you next?
on. Can you hear me? We can hear you now? Okay. All right.
All right. All right quick question. Is there can you hear
me is is there been a consistent collaboration?
me is is there been a consistent collaboration between the
Monitor? Um
Uh in the unions and is it a documented collaboration?
Uh in the unions and is it a documented collaboration of
meeting times and discussing?
meeting times and discussing, uh, you know, um direction of
the consent decree.
the consent decree, uh, just to make sure that there's no
collective bargaining.
collective bargaining rights that are being violated and
are those documented meetings. Is that being talked about
Alder?
Alderman napalitan? Are you are you still with us?
Yeah, can you hear me?
Okay, the chairman uh recogn.
Okay, the chairman, uh, recognizes all the women silver
stain for purposes of a quorum.
stain for purposes of a quorum and also Alderman Martin.
stain for purposes of a quorum and also Alderman Martin and
uh, I'll give it about another 15.
uh, I'll give it about another 15 to 20 seconds before we
move on because unless there are there any other questions
or comments?
Sorry, you know, yeah.
Sorry, you know yeah this can you hear me? This is Alderman
tovarus. I
tovarus I can report that the the monitor.
tovarus. I can report that the the monitor hello does uh
meet with um,
meet with um the unions on on specific top.
meet with um the unions on on specific topics, Mr. Chairman
certain points in the reporting period. Um, that's
in in her in the monitoring teams ability to have access to
all different parts of the city in order to um to assess
compliance. Those are um,
interactions that happen independent of the department
Thank you chairman. Can you still?
Thank you chairman. Can you still hear me on my out?
There's no more questions to comment. Let me thank each of
you for I don't think they can hear us. Yeah, I can hear
you. I can hear you, too. Thank you. Thank.
you. I can hear you too. Thank you. Thank you. I'm gonna
send an email.
Alderman Martin we ready.
All right the next item on the AG.
All right, the next item on the agenda is ordinance 2023.
Dash 6424 the amendment of The minutes of school code
chapter 284 by adding section.
chapter 284 by adding sections, uh, 284050 establishing
comprehensive stamping analysis for the Department of
police our
police. Our chief sponsor is um alderman
police. Our chief sponsor is um Alderman Matt Martin. Um,
is there a substitute uh there thank you chairman. Yes,
there is a substitute it.
there is a substitute. It was emailed last night and a
paper copy is being handed out right now.
paper copy is being handed out right now with very very
modest changes to the original Orden.
introduced in December.
Okay. Thank you. Alderman.
Okay. Thank you Alderman Martin as Chief sponsor. I would
give you the privilege of um addressing your uh substitute
ordinance. Can I?
ordinance. Can I get a motion before we start? Can I get a
motion to?
motion to accept the substitute into committee? So moved by
alen woman
Nugent
Is point hold on 1 second?
Is point hold on 1 second. Um all those in favor say I
all those opposed
in the opinion of the
In the opinion of the chairs the eyes Habit to substitute
this before the committee.
this before the committee, um point of information by
alderwoman nen that be point.
alderwoman nen that be point of information. I'm getting
texts that on the live.
texts that on the live stream folks can hear that Alderman
tabaris and Alderman n
tabaris and Alderman Napolitano have questions, but we
don't hear it in here.
Oh, they had a I guess you could hear it on.
Thank you so much.
Thank you so much, but it's not coming through. Okay, um,
can we get text?
But we can hear.
Can you hear?
Can you hear us now chairman we get Tech to take a look at
that.
Sorry, can you hear us now? I don't want to prolong the
meeting while they take care.
meeting while they take care of that. So, uh, we're gonna
keep moving while they take care of.
keep moving while they take care of that technical issue
Alderman Martin. Could you uh, let us know the differences
between hello everybody. I'm your Ordnance being a
substitute Mr. Chairman. Do you have any um when you like
to speak on behalf of your Ordnance outside?
to speak on behalf of your Ordnance outside of yourself? I
I do not chairman. Okay. Thank you. Keep this quick and
then
in terms of the changes they are modest. Um, it is on the
second.
second page, um subsection C it
second page, um subsection C. It includes the community
commission for Public Safety and accountability.
commission for Public Safety and accountability as 1 of the
recipients for the quarterly progress reports in addition
to the mayor.
to the mayor and the city council and then second it. Uh,
pushes back by 3 months each of the 4 dates outlined there
when we had initially introduced this in December. There
was the possibility of it being heard in this Committee in
December because we are hearing it several months later. We
thought it most appropriate to push those dates so that the
first
1st 2024.
Okay, tell us a little about the ordinance. Um
Alderman Martin happy to Chairman and thank you and good
afternoon.
afternoon colleagues. Um, I think we all recognize both on
this committee and across city council that Public Safety.
is 1 of the top issues that concern Chicago wins that they
uh are expecting us as a city council.
uh are expecting us as a city council to address while
there are a number of different.
there are a number of different opinion. Of course about
how City Government Can best address.
how City Government Can best address Community violence
much of the debate Rev.
much of the debate revolves around our Police Department.
There are some who contend that the city too often directs
officers to respond to complaints that are better addressed
by other other government offices.
by other other government offices and uh other residents
highlight the slow response to certain 911 calls and argue
as a result that we need more frequent and visible policing
by beat officers these and other questions are very
legitimate ones, but the
legitimate ones. But the members of the public and
oftentimes our body, uh, don't know enough about how CPD
calculates the appropriate way to distribute officers
across our city detectives as well. Um,
To specific neighborhoods as well as the ideal ways that
off.
officers should be spending their time. Um these calcul
calculations in my opinion have become particularly
important. Um,
important, um in recent years as we work to sustain
decreases in hom.
decreases in homicides and carjackings as well as reverse
the recent rise in robberies and motor vehicle thefts among
others. Um, and as some colleagues may recall over the last
decade CPD has twice commissioned Workforce allocation
studies to help inform its Staffing decisions.
studies to help inform its Staffing decisions first was in
2016 and more recently in 2019 with the University of
Chicago crime lab neither study however was completed and
their preliminary findings were kept private for only a
handful of decision makers to review and I and many of us
here appreciate that some Public Safety planning
information is sensitive and should remain private, but I
also believe that members of the public in our body deserve
more transparency around how Staffing decisions are made.
Um, and because the efficiencies gained through data-driven
decisions, uh can help reduce response.
decisions, uh can help reduce response time reduce crime
and improve officer mental health through a few.
and improve officer mental health through a few or canceled
days off I think now is really the time.
days off I think now is really the time for us to turn to
this issue in Earnest. Um, that's why I'm I'm happy and
thank you chairman for agreeing to put this on the agenda.
Uh,
uh to share this uh ordinance for the committee's.
Apartment wide Staffing levels and 911 response times. This
study once completed would resem.
study once completed would resemble analyses completed by
several other cities.
several other cities including San Francisco, San
Francisco, San Diego and Houston and would be updated at
least.
annually so that CPD can adjust Staffing level.
annually so that CPD can adjust Staffing levels accordingly
and also, uh, especially um apropos of today's meeting it
would fulfill a requirement within the federal consent
decree that c
decree that CPD develop a data-driven staffing model, so,
short we're required to do this by the consent decree,
we've been talking about it for many years in fits and
starts I believe now is the time for us to step up and get
it done. Um, I'd also note that the completed study would
be released.
be released not just to the mayor's office and city
council, but also,
council, but also to the general public, uh, which I think
will
provide transparency and accountability.
provide transparency and accountability regarding decisions
that will help the public.
that will help the public better understand how these
decisions are made and also, uh help the public provide
constructive.
Um, so that is a summary.
Um, so that is a summary of what's before the committee
today. Um, I would appreciate your favorable consideration
and of course any questions that you have. Thank you
alderman.
Alderman, um, do we know whether the the feed has been
to the public as well?
it's still it's
still so we still have live feed to the public.
Okay, and you?
okay, and you guys are just fixing the Facebook feeds I
mean the zoom feeds.
Okay. Thank you.
um, yeah Al
Um, yeah Alderman Martin is is has there been a cost
analysis done for this. Do you know how much it was? It's
gonna cost ya it's it's anticipated. Yes. It's anticipated.
to cost between 800 and a million dollars.
to cost between 800 and a million dollars it uh, a contract
has not yet been entered.
has not yet been entered into with a third-party consultant
who uh,
who uh would conduct this analysis. Um, I know all of
are cost-conscious with City resources. Thankfully we
had a number of philanthropic partners.
had a number of philanthropic Partners who have um stood up
and said that they would fund the cost of this. So, um, if
the committee and ultimately the council decides to pass
this it will be at no additional cost to the city in terms
of creating the the stud.
of creating the the study
Thank you. Are there any questions comment?
Thank you. Are there any questions comments?
Alderman Ervin
Thank you, uh, Mr. Chairman and uh to the uh to the
sponsor, um,
I did have a chance to to read your revised ordinance and
um what?
so
going in will there be some?
going in will there be some very clear?
Direction on what it is that we are meas.
Direction on what it is that we are measuring.
Um
I I say this because
if we adjust certain factors
um
It will give us a specific out.
It will give us a specific outcome. Let's use a case in
point we if we say that um burglaries.
point. We if we say that um burglaries are the driving
factor in how we're going to allocate Staffing but when we
do the burglary allocation, we see that it doesn't we don't
like it and we say well no, we're not going to do
Berkeley's now we're going to do carjacked.
Berkeley's now we're going to do carjacking. Um, are we
walking into this with some very set steps on?
what the
What the criteria is going to be?
What the criteria is going to be for?
the allocation um, because
If we don't set that.
if we don't set that walking in we won't get a objective
result. We'll get a result and if we don't like the
then
We'll we'll make it.
We'll we'll make it we'll make an adjustment to it. I mean,
we've had Staffing studies done.
we've had Staffing studies done in there. They're probably
sitting on somebody's Library.
sitting on somebody's Library shelf somewhere. Um, I just
want us to we're going to do this to make it actionable
make it usable.
make it usable based on factors that that we all believe
are things.
are things that need to have pre police resources allocated
to it.
I think that's a really important question.
I think that's a really important question chairman. Um 2
responses 1 the consent decree itself does outline a number
of uh, uh, uh,
of uh, uh, uh points that need to be um taken into account.
Um, and a number of those are mentioned in the substitute
including um, uh ensuring that there's a span of control in
unity of command which has come up in Prior hearings, um
with our current and former superintendent, um, discussions
around the appropriate number of field training officers as
well.
well as Crisis Intervention trained officers in terms of a
consideration around um,
consideration around um specific crime types. Um it
doesn't get that prescriptive at least in terms of what is
before this committee what I would say
before this committee. What I would say is that I think
it's really important that both the initial study and then
the annual updates be shared publicly to take those points
into account.
into account because there might be some disagreements
around say burglaries versus
robberies versus carjacked
robberies versus carjackings how we want to um have CPD
prioritize that within the model and I think being able to
is this uh, uh,
is this, uh, uh does provide a series of recommendations,
but not determined outcomes allows.
but not determined outcomes allows for uh our body as well
as the Mets.
as the mayor's office and the public to provide input so
that CPD can take that into account and uh, hopefully,
those annual adjustments. Um, uh to
right size
Right size the recommendations. But but how do you if we how
do we get?
do we get a baseline? How do we know objectively what is
Right versus then what we as policy makers.
Right versus then what we as policy makers may want to
adjust for.
like
did you follow that? Yeah, I so 1 thing that I can um.
did you follow that? Yeah, I so 1 thing that I can um do
through the chair is um,
through the chair is um talk with some people in other
jurisdictions to get a better.
jurisdictions to get a better sense to how they've decided
to.
to um, identify those benchmarks in places. Not just the
cities that I mentioned but also New York and LA because I
I think the the points are really good 1 I also think that
um at least myself
um, at least myself not having um experience with making
Staffing level decisions.
Staffing level decisions that there's a degree of humility
that I want to approach, but that
that I want to approach but that we can ask well informed
questions as we often do through our various committees to
better.
better understand how things are calibrated but in terms of
for example,
of for example putting together an analysis that has a Pres
presumption that say, uh someone from CPD
presumption that say, uh, someone from CPD will respond to
a certain type of 911 call like priority.
a certain type of 911 call like priority 1 within 10
minutes, um versus 15 minutes versus 20 minutes. Um, I I I
don't have a direct answer for you yet in terms.
terms of uh
Terms of uh examples like that, but wouldn't some of those.
things need to be negotiated before.
things need to be negotiated before we enter into.
the work of it so that we can if
The work of it so that we can if these are the policy
points that we're setting.
points that we're setting it's it's like the example of
saying that a DCFS.
saying that a DCFS caseworker could have no more than 30
client.
clients or something of that nature we set
clients or something of that nature. We set that as a
standard or come to some.
standard or come to some conversation and agreement on
standards. I think if we don't do that before we walk down
the street.
I don't know if the result that we're going to get.
I don't know if the result that we're going to get is
really what we want. And I and I think that prior to you
know jumping into.
know jumping into this that that we need to we as a body.
need to um set some standards.
need to um set some standards that that we all could could
look at and say hey this is what we think.
the public or or our constituency would like
The public or or our constituency would like to see so that
there's something and again.
there's something and again now.
Does that equate that?
Does that equate that our our department is too small to
meet the mandates that we've asked for?
meet the mandates that we've asked for then we can have
that conversation a little later.
that conversation a little later, but I think walking into
this we got to have some.
objective points
Objective points that we have laid out in order for this.
firm or firms to do what it is that we ask for.
firm or firms to do what it is that we asked for them to
do. So, uh 1 final uh response on my end. Is that with the
quarterly updates that are envisioned before the full
Staffing analysis has dropped those updates would be shared
with our members. And so I think that there's the
opportunity for continued dialogue to ensure that we're not
being overly.
being overly prescriptive in what is being considered with
this.
this with this ordinance as CPD continues to engage um, uh
Consultants that have created Staffing analysis like this.
in other jurisdictions and then um, once with those
preliminary quarterly updates that we have the opportunity
to ensure before this is fully baked.
to ensure before this is fully baked and it becomes more
expensive to revise on the back end that we're taking care
of it, um at the start
of it. Um at the start well, uh, well sign me up. I'll be
glad to partic.
glad to participate uh in in some of the
conversations because again,
and I just don't want us to get a product.
And I just don't want us to get a product. That's that's
useless. Um
useless, um that we that we really can't do anything with
uh, because we haven't laid.
uh, because we haven't laid out the parameters in which we
have some common thinking on.
have some common thinking on or common goals for and also I
I do I I I also would like to listen to
this as well and as well as the police
while you know, we can set some bound
execute whatever it is that
it
at least on uh how this thing needs to be done. So, thank
you.
you Mr. Chair. And I and I I do support what your uh, what
you seeking to do and uh would would definitely be voting
in in.
in in favor of it. Uh, I'd like I said just need we just
need to put up.
need to put up some uh some guard rails.
And Alderman Ervin any any other fur?
And Alderman Ervin any any other further questions of the
comment for Alderman Martin?
Hi there being no further.
There being no.
information we have a motion, uh to approve the item by
Alderman Mosley all those in favor say
Alderman Mosley all those in favor. Say I
all those opposed nay and opinion of the chair the eyes
have it. Thanks a lot Alderman Martin Martin this item will
will be reported out, um at our next city council.
will be reported out. Um at our next city council meeting,
I believe it's februari 16th.
I believe it's februari 16th on a couple of weeks here.
Okay. Thank you chairman. Thank you all.
Okay. Thank you chairman. Thank you all the last item on.
The agenda is um ordinance 2023 Dash 5726.
The agenda is um ordinance 2023 Dash 5726 Amendment a
municipal code section 2
municipal code section. 2152 D14.
municipal code section 21521410 by modifying the mandatory
retirement age.
retirement age for police officers and firefighters.
retirement age for police officers and firefighters if I
could ask, um,
Um Evan. Hey The General Counsel with the city of Chicago.
Chicago Fire Department Jamar Sullivan the district.
Chicago Fire Department Jamar Sullivan the district Chief,
um chief of special oper.
um chief of Special Operations Chicago Fire Department and
John Canton Tsar.
John Canton zaro the president of Fraternal Order of
Police.
Lodge Number 7 to please
join us in a box.
I'll give each of you an opportunity if you have.
I'll give each of you an opportunity if you have um any
opening remarks, um, but before we start, um opening
remarks on this item, uh, this is a subject matter hearing
only.
only, uh, there would be no vote taken on this matter. Um,
and I am the chief sponsor of this matter and I wanted to
briefly uh discuss
Why I felt it was somewhat important.
Why I felt it was somewhat important that we have this
discussion. Uh, there we I think we as a Chicago Police
Department, um have have reached a point where you know,
the subject needs to be addressed. Um in many of our
districts. We are we're lacking man.
districts we are we're lacking Manpower. Um, I think our
Police Department is now
If they haven't reached.
If they haven't reached the 2000 Mark, um number of
officers that we are.
officers that we are um below are required.
officers that we are, um below our required 13500. We're
we're certainly um reaching that point and we'll reach it
very soon. Um, so I think attrition becomes
important issue on our department as we as we discuss, um,
our visibility as we discussed, um the ability to resp
Our visibility as we discussed, um the ability to respond to
calls within our districts.
calls within our districts, um on the west side of Chicago
at least in the 1 5.
at least in the 15th district and even in the 25th
district, um,
district, um that encompasses uh, my ward,
some of our officers respond in 7 8
Some of our officers respond in 7 8 hours late to
burglaries that have occurred in Burg.
burglaries that have occurred in burglaries in process, um
in progress, uh, and so that becomes a big issue. Um, and
to me
visibility be a big issue to me.
Um, and I I I think you know, um, it is my belief that our
hiring is not keeping up with attrition.
And then that begs the question do we have a healthy
pension fund?
pension fund when that occurs? No, no. No the
pension fund when that occurs? No, no. No, the more the
more people that we have on.
more people that we have on the department the more people
we have and that the fire department. Um, the more people
we have paying.
we have paying into a pension a pension system, which makes
it uh partly 1 of the reasons. We can have a healthy
pension system, but when you don't have uh, folks putting
into a pension system, we begin to have an unhealthy
pension system. Um, I do want to note that, you know, this
is not mandatory. Um, this is optional police officers have
the option of environment have the option of retiring at
the age of 50.
Stand until their 63, um is optional still and changing is
the 65.
the 65 would be optional still and so this does not.
the 65 would be optional still and so this does not put a
mandate on any officer or fire.
mandate on any officer or fireman remain on the job to
their 6.
Um, and I also raised economic concerns throughout
country and particularly in this city as well. Um, the time
has changed I think this would in
has changed. I think this would in 2000 when this ordinance
was Revisited.
was Revisited in the age was moved to 63 as a mandatory
retirement.
retirement age, uh in December 31st.
retirement age, uh in December 31st of 2000, um times have
changed financially.
changed financially for out of folks and many of us many of
us are working longer and many of us are staying employed.
longer rather than retiring and so for those reasons, um, I
I wanted to bring this subject with uh, within the
committee and then the council so that we could begin a
discussion as to whether or not uh, moving the age 65 would
be detrimental.
be detrimental to the city or would it help or hurt our
city and our departments. So I I've joined I've
join, uh,
of these 3 gentlemen that repres
Of these 3 gentlemen that represents um our 2 law
enforcement organiz.
enforcement organization or first responder organizations,
um to give their input and ask any questions, um that you
may have with regard to uh, modifying the age from 63 to
65. Um, I'll begin if he did 1 of you have open and
comments. Um, please do so. Um, I'll first ask Evan ham the
general Council of the city of Chicago.
you'd like to make
thank you Sherry. Um as the chair mentioned I'm Evan. Hey,
I'm the general counsel for Chicago Fire Department.
I'm the general counsel for Chicago Fire Department with me
is District Chief Jamar Sullivan who oversees?
is District Chief Jamar Sullivan who oversees cfds Special
Operations Division?
Operations Division. Um, the mandatory retirement age for
firefighters has been 63 years old for over 20 years.
There's no.
There's no reason to increase the age limit now and a
number of reasons why it should.
number of reasons why it should not be increased. Uh, we're
here today to ask your assistance in Decline to move
forward with ordinance 2023.
forward with ordinance. 202023000000. 5726
uh in Broad Strokes, the following reasons are not
Uh in Broad Strokes, the following reasons are not uh, a
reasons not to include the uh, excuse me.
reasons not to include the uh, excuse me increase the
mandatory retirement age for firefighters.
first the job of firefighting is
First the job of firefighting is an intensely physically
demanding purs.
demanding Pursuit.
The demand is not diminished with age with aged nearly.
Everyone's skills and stamina decreases, but the rigors of
the job are constant.
increasing the age
Increasing the age will unacceptably increase the risks
firefighters face.
firefighters face an increase in the mandatory retirement
age will only serve to increase the likelihood of our
members experiencing correlating increase in instances of
injury, or worse.
second increasing the retirement age will reduce
opportunities for promotion from lower ranks as those
firefighters are to promote a
firefighters are to promote will be able to stay in their
promoter ranks longer.
This will only serve to decrease our member's ability to
secure promotions to higher.
secure promotions to higher ranks.
third
cfd does not have any problems with recruitment or
retention as you all know the city recently completed the
entrance testing process resulting in a list of over.
entrance testing process resulting in a list of over 2,000
people eligible and ready to be hired as firefighters.
increasing the retirement age will only serve to reduce the
number.
number of members retiring.
Which will reduce.
Which will reduce the number of openings to be filled by a
possibly more diverse group of Fire.
possibly more diverse group of firefighters.
in addition
CF
cfd opposes any changes to the retirement age that do not
include a mandatory retirement age for cfds EMS employees.
for whom there is currently no mandatory retirement age.
and lastly and most importantly
There's no empirical evidence supporting the need for this
ordinance. In fact, there is a complete lack of any
analysis on.
analysis on how this amendment would impact both the
workforce or the pension fund.
and the absence of any such analysis the risk to the
And the absence of any such analysis the risk to the fire
department and the city more broadly is too great to act
quick.
quickly to make changes that may not be undone.
Um for these reasons cfd asks your support and decl.
Um for these reasons cfd asks your support and declining to
move forward with this ordinance and we welcome any
questions.
Thank you. Thank you.
I'm Mr. Jamar Sullivan.
I'm Mr. Jamar Sullivan District chief chief
Chair, I I don't have a prepare statement, but I'm willing
to ask.
to ask him any questions about the uh physicalities or
anything that we in in our position our job.
Thank you. Chief.
and um
And um president um with the fop Lodge 7.
And um president um with the fop Lodge 7 president Kazar.
Uh, Mr. Chairman. Thanks.
Uh, Mr. Chairman, thanks for this opportunity committee
members. Welcome to the Box. Yeah. This is what it looks
like finally. Um, so I'm gonna be a little I'm trying to
keep it brief, but I'm gonna be a little historical here
because this topic specifically has been part of our
negotiations with the city in Phase 1 3 years plus. Um, we
realized that Staffing was a major issue and we needed to
keep as many officers in the car seats as we possibly could
as we are literally 1600 plus, uh, depending on whose
numbers you believe short.
numbers you believe short and Manpower so because that was
a consideration we proposed this to the city of negotiating
team like
team. Like I said back in 2020 when we first took,
team. Like I said back in 2020 when we first took our
Administration over and um, it was more of a broader
encompassing Dynam.
encompassing Dynamic where we said, okay, not only do we
need to keep the veteran officers here, but we realize as
the general counsel said there's a consideration
physical standards and the ability to do the job.
older. We also included.
that into the proposal by saying the Illinois State Police
have a fitness standard that they need to maintain
throughout their employment. We propose to the city a
similar.
idea where our new hired officers
Idea where our new hired officers would have a physical
fitness standard. They would have to maintain.
fitness standard. They would have to maintain throughout
their full length of employment the city wanted.
their full length of employment the city wanted nothing to
do with that oddly enough. Um, but that is you got to look
at this from a holistic.
at this from a holistic approach if you have a fitness
standard that will keep officers healthy and in better
shape.
shape that is a cost. CA cost savings to the health care.
component that this city has to pay out. They didn't want
anything to do with that either. We had a comprehensive.
Health Care proposal. This was all part of a giant package.
So in summary we have been in support of this we have been
pushing it we have plenty of
pushing it. We have plenty of officers who want to stick
around who are able to do the job.
around who are able to do the job and I I understand that
the fire department has 2,200 people in line waiting to
take that job, but the reality is that's about used to be 3
or 4.
or 4 times that amount they're waiting list to get on the
job. So anybody entering Public Service whether it's the
police or fire?
police or fire it has been a very diminished interest in
this Jenner.
this generation and
This time we are in right now. That's just the reality. We
are all facing and I think to lose.
Our department specifically has gotten very young very
quick.
quick here. Trying to make up for a lot of Lost.
quick here trying to make up for a lot of lost bodies. Um,
and that means we have a younger Department you need those
veteran officers to stay here with that knowledge and
understanding of how things need to be done. Um,
I I would like to touch on 60 seconds for the 2s.
about the study that uh, Alderman Martin talked about I
would just caution this body about considering civil.
civilianization you talk very often about
civilianization. You talk very often about lawsuit
settlements and I will tell you if you are going to try and
put civilians in a lot of these administrative.
put civilians in a lot of these administrative duties that
take officers off the street.
take officers off the street you are now subjecting that
officer to a civilian.
officer to a civilian completing a report that they are
going to have to testify that the civilian did and exposing
this city.
this city to more liability for improper forms being
filled.
out and the officer being on the hook for that. That's 1
that's 1 point and uh Alderman Taylor we we have
that's 1 point and uh Alderman Taylor. We we have to keep
it on subject though. All right, very good. Appreciate it.
Uh,
are there any questions or comments?
Are there any questions or comments before I go? Um, all
the woman tailor? Let me just ask.
the woman tailor? Let me just ask now.
And I want to make sure I'm pronouncing.
And I want to make sure I'm pronounced. Is it general
counsel? He uh, how many
counsel? He uh how many how many people um, stay on the
Fire?
fire department. Well, how many people retire each year?
result of reaching that mandatory age?
That is a fact. I don't have before me and I'm sorry I
can't hear you. Sorry that is in fact, I don't have before
me. I know generally how many members.
me. I know generally how many members we lose each year to
retirement or relationship but not specifically to the
mandatory retirement age. Could you provide me that?
information so that I could um disperse it with committ.
members. I specifically want to know each year.
members. I specifically want to know each year how many
people stay or how many firefighters?
people stay or how many firefighters stay? Uh
until age 63
Uh and a comment did you?
Uh and a comment. Did you made kind of like close my my
callers to go up a little bit?
callers to go up a little bit it it sounded like you were
concerned about diversity on the fire department.
Uh, we have been concerned about diversity.
Uh, we have been concerned about diversity, uh for for
years and and even perhaps decades and and it's it's it's
so interesting.
so interesting now that as general counsel you mentioned
diversity. Um, and this being a measure to to Hinder
diversity, um, and this being a measure to to hinder
diversity, uh, and in fact I if
diversity. Uh, and in fact I if I can guess the fire
department is probably wanted.
department is probably wanted had only 1 entrance exam, um
over the last 10-15 years.
So diversity should have come.
So diversity should have come up a long time ago and
diversity should not.
diversity should not be a reason as to why you're raising.
an issue to be against an ordinance that that would allow
firefighters to stay until they're 65 years old. I do
understand. Um the injury, I mean the um,
understand. Um the injury, I mean the um increase of
injury, however, um, do you have any statistics or
information that will be available? Uh,
information that will be available, uh to myself and
members of this committee with regard to injuries that are
sustained as a result.
person's age and that is a result of
Person's age and that is a result of an injury related to
fire or distinguish.
fire or distinguishing a fire extinguishing a fire or in a
line of duty but more so an injury.
line of duty but more so an injury, um that can be
attributed to a fireman's age.
The fire department does not have any of those statistics
specifically. I think that we would have to coordinate with
the Office of Public Safety Administration.
the Office of Public Safety Administration which handles
our medical division. Would you cite it?
our medical division. Would you cite it the increase in
injury though? You said that?
injury though? You said that allowing a a fire to stay
until they're 65 years old would likely increase.
um injuries within the department itself
Um injuries within the department itself. Can you explain
that a little bit more? Because maybe I heard it wrong.
so, um
the as our as we get older in our position because it is a
very physical job.
very physical job, uh, depending on the position that you
have within the department your skills can.
have within the department your skills can diminish and
there's a potential that the injury rate would go up for
someone who is not able to do the physicality of the job
that we're doing which leads to I think probably the last
statement that I think Evan made is that and I'm sorry. I'm
Chief Jamar sull.
Chief Jamar Sullivan, uh special operations with the
Chicago fire department is that we don't really have a
recent statistical.
recent statistical analysis of what's happening with
members as they progressed age wise as far as in a
correlation to injuries or or their conditional physical
conditions, so,
So we just say that I had opinion then I if if you don't
have that.
have that information, how did you form the opinion that?
uh, because of age in the physical demand of the job.
There's a likelihood of of injury.
There's a likelihood of of injury if if you don't have
statistical data.
uh is
Uh, is that is that more just your thought?
or is that because that's what happened normally because
you got to know that the the the
for me to retire. Um
for me to retire, um as an employee outside of city
government I have to work on until I'm 67 years old because
I was born. Um, I was born in 1965.
And I believe the low 19.
And I believe the low 1960. Um, you can retire at 65 years.
old.
uh, so statist
Uh, so statistically you're you're saying that well, you
don't have statist.
don't have statistics number 1 but you form the uh, the
opinion that a person beyond the age of 63 is likely to be
injured.
injured number 1, uh, and number 2. Are you saying that
they're not likely able to perform the job of a fire?
because they've reached age 63
I'm not saying that uh, they necessarily because they
turned.
I'm not saying that uh, they necessarily because they turned
64 they're going to get injured because they turned 64. No
63 63. Okay. 6364 to the age is the what are you basing it
on? What what I'm saying? Is that
That if it is due to their health or deterioration of their
skill.
skill set then they potentially could actually find they
can.
can be harmed potentially more. I don't know that.
can be harmed potentially more. I don't know that again. As
I said, we definitely need to take a deep look into it
before we make a decision.
Okay, so so how did you and Mr. Hey?
Okay, so so how did you and Mr. Hey, um.
decide those that that um, because you did say in your
opening remarks that there is an increase the likelihood of
increase in injury and and then you stated just recently,
uh, because this is a physically demanding job. I I what I
love because I'm not saying that this is the best thing for
the city. Don't get me wrong. This is for discussion.
But what?
but what I'm saying is you you have made some assumptions
that um, or you've made some conclusions.
That because of 1 turn 63 years old.
That because of 1 turned 63 years old, um that this job is
probably too physic.
probably too physically demanding for him or her and that
uh, there's a likelihood of increase
uh, there's a likelihood of increasing injury because of
that age.
Is age a problem.
in your opinion
my opinion
My opinion age is not necessarily a problem. Uh, okay when
it really gets down to it. It'll be to the individual
member right? I'm sorry when it comes down to it. It will
come down to the individual person, right, but this is
general rule that they want to change it affects everybody.
So
an individual probably can maintain a different state of
physical fitness.
physical fitness that may allow them to be able to perform
those tasks. Um easier than if they did not I
on how every individual will actually perform.
on how every individual will actually perform but I just
again suppose the idea that we should look into it if we're
going to make it a blanket state.
going to make it a blanket statement or make a change for
everybody to now go to that.
everybody to now go to that because
if if the department
Is there's a public safety matter? There's a safety matter
for those members that I really care about.
and so I mean as we age
And so I mean as we age basically we would be aging the
department. Um, if that is you know, if everybody stayed
till 65, and I'm not saying that it's necessarily A Bad
Thing.
thing. I'm not sure if my tone or the way, I'm coming
across the saying that what I'm saying. Is that before we
just decide I think we should take a look.
just decide I think we should take a look and make sure
that it is the absolute best for us. Well, that's what
we're doing. We're we're we're starting a conversation but
at the start of the conversation I I
at the start of the conversation, I I believe the general
Council as well as yourself chief.
Council as well as yourself Chief said that you thought it
was a bad idea. Um, and we're so we're starting the
conversation, but at the onset
Of the conversation you said no.
And so I wanted to find out.
And so I wanted to find out why because that why is
important to me as well? Because it it it may sit home with
me that 65 may not be a good.
me that 65 may not be a good reason or it could be a good
reason, but the only thing I ask is if it is not a good
reason let me know why because I've never been a
firefighter, but I know that police officers are in a
different.
different situation to whereby um their maturity.
different situation to whereby um, their maturity on the
job is is is actually an asset.
um and their ability to train younger
Um, and their ability to train younger of officers is
actually an asset.
so
So you're but it's it's your contention that um or your
belief rather that um,
once a person turns 63, uh, he should be retired because
the physical demands of the job and so I I do that does beg
the question.
the question I want to ask is
when when a
When when a person is 63, what's the likelihood?
of there being um in a position
to whereby they're they're getting on top of roofs.
venting roofs is is is a person that's 63 years.
venting roofs is is is a person that's 63 years old or 62
because they have the manned.
because they have the mandatory retire at 63. Are they
likely to be in the strenuous job at that point in their
career because
career? Because they they're certainly looking at at least
35 to 40 years.
35 to 40 years at some point. Are they likely to be in a
position?
position that requires um the strenuous
position that requires? Um, the strenuous job that that you
just described
In a short answer Council, um, Mr. Chairman. Yes. Um, the
fire department has about 3,600 firefighters out of the
4800 employees, um of those 3600 there are approxim.
4800 employees, um of those 3600 there are approximately
160 or so who are Battalion Chiefs and um, I would say no
more than 50 or 75 who are above the rank of battalion
chief.
That means that the remaining 3,400 firefighters.
are in a position where they will
Are in a position where they will go and do interior
firefighting on any given day.
So the overwhelming majority of the department is in that
situation regardless.
situation regardless of age. So if people are in
Their late 50s early 60s then yes, they still are going.
into buildings going up on roofs going up ladders. The
Overland majority of them are Yes And to clarify 1 of the
points that I think you were asking.
along the way is
The department is opposed to this because we don't believe.
there is empirical evidence to support it.
Um, the issue that we're concerned with is is that we're
moving forward.
moving forward without any sort of study or analysis.
moving forward without any sort of study or analysis as
you've suggested you're asking where our analysis is to
oppose.
oppose it. Our concern is that there's no analysis in
support of it.
support of it the necessity for it. Um, I I mean toward
that end. Um, I I think
that end, um, I I think that in Actuarial study by the
pension board as to how increased age would impact the
pension board would be critical.
pension board would be critical for this body to consider
before moving forward. I don't know that the the
suppositions about more members equals a healthier pension
fund is true. I don't know that I'm not an I'm not
would be able to answer that question. I think that that
answer needs to be had before this matter.
answer needs to be had before this matter proceeds.
know this this part of the
Know this this part of the uh, the process and and you
know, we will talk.
know, we will talk to the pension folks as well. And so um,
I I disagree with that that we need to have that
information.
information before I call them in here. Um you guys have
I've been talking to fire department but for about this
for a couple of months at least at least if not longer
and so you've had uh my
and so you've had uh, my my ordinance or at least your
commissioner has had the ordinance and so if you haven't
started that process, uh to find out whether or not it's
healthy or unhealthy and that's up to you as well. But from
my end, I'll make sure I do that as well. We're going to
take a 5-minute recess because uh, we have to take um,
take care of some technical issues with the online.
Um, we're being recessed for 5 minutes.
Question and get that top spot off.
Question and get that top spot up.
check 1
Chairman, this is Kamal. I'm sorry we are.
Chairman, this is Kamal. I'm sorry we are all good.
We just needed a quick test.
alderman napolitan
Alderman Napolitano
Can you hear me because he had issues before?
Mr. Chairman, this is Alder.
Mr. Chairman, this is Alderman tovarus. Can you hear me?
Yep, we can hear you. Can you?
Yep, we can hear you. Can you hear us? Yes, I can hear you.
Thank you. Okay you
Thank you. Okay, you have AT&T then.
I sure.
I sure do.
Uh, what about your uh, who else?
Uh, what about your uh, who else is on Alderman Mitchell?
Alderman the politano
I think chairman we were having some issues, but I think we
are now.
are now good this this is Kamal, but I think we got 1
person that could hear then that means all of them should
be able to yes. Yes. Thank you. Can you hear me? This is
alderman.
alderman napalitan.
Yep, we can hear you. Okay?
Yep, we can hear you. Okay, I can I can hear you. Um, you
can hear me I can hear.
can hear me I can hear you before and me and sauna can hear
each other, but you guys can.
hear each other, but you guys can hear us, but I can hear.
Thank you. Thank.
Thank you. Thank you and
we'll get started.
we'll get started in a minute. Let me tell you a question,
okay?
Can you?
Can you guys hear me?
Is that a fair? Can you hear me?
Next in here Alderman Mitchell I can hear you. We can hear
you too, Greg.
Yeah, I can hear you too.
Yeah, they I don't know what the problem is. They can't.
write
all right, they're able to hear you now Al
All right, they're able to hear you now Alderman Mitchell.
qualified Union technician
Hi the Comm.
Hi, the committee's come back to order.
it looks like um we have
It looks like um, we have the technical issue that is played
out. Uh Chief d
out. Uh, Chief Dallas. Are you on the panel did you want to
offer? Um,
to offer um of your P the Department's opinion with regard
to this?
to this issue? That's before the committee.
Uh Chief, uh chairman recognizes Chief angel navales. Thank
you very much. Uh, and I I'll make this brief. Uh, and like
I'm speaking on behalf of the Chicago.
I'm speaking on behalf of the Chicago Police Department. I
understand that the fire department and I can't speak.
the brothers and sisters on the fire side, but what I can
tell you, uh, the increase in ages something that we as a
department support and I'll cite 2, uh,
department support and I'll cite to uh, very quickly
reasons number 1 is as we go from an older Department to a
very young Department. We lose those informal leaders in
that institutional.
that institutional knowledge, uh walks out the door with
retirement.
retirement, uh, second of all is having
retirement. Uh, second of all is having that institutional
knowledge also gives us a histor.
knowledge also gives us a historical. Um, it gives us
historical knowledge of the evolution of processes.
historical knowledge of the evolution of processes that has
been extremely helpful for us.
been extremely helpful for us at the consent decree. So
like I said,
like I said earlier the the police department will support
anything that is going to increase our our ability.
anything that is going to increase our our ability to have
officers. Um, we
Speak for the police department for the fire department
because they're 2 separate jobs.
because they're 2 separate jobs, but we are in favor.
Thank you. Chief.
Thank you Chief. Um, I believe uh alderwoman Taylor.
Thank you Chief. Um, I believe uh, alderwoman Taylor has a
question or comments. Thank you. So, um, this is never
going to happen ever again in life, but I agree with the
president.
president like you should not you think about what officers
go through on a consistent basis when it comes to their
mental health when it comes to and mental.
mental health when it comes to and Mental Health Services
in our mandatory in either Department. Am I correct?
Know I'm mandatory, right so after.
Know I'm mandatory, right? So after it's shooting that's
not mandatory, right? No, that's not true. They can be yes.
They know is it mandatory so he can't be mandated. Yes, so
you can mandate after a shooting.
you can mandate after a shooting that an officer seeks an
automat an officer's automat.
automat an officer's automatically put on a traumatic
stress leave after a shooting.
stress leave after a shooting the services provided then
there could be a mandate there could be a psychological
review for officers too. So there could be a mandate.
attached to some of this.
could could
Could could it's not it's not it's not automatic the same
thing for the fire department.
After a fire, is there mandatory?
after a fire, is there mandatory Mental Health Services for
firefighters, there is not
We're living in a Time.
We're living in a time where a lot of us, especially people
that look like you and me. We barely live past 65.
that look like you and me. We barely live past 65 some of
us barely 55 and so I want us to I I agree with them. I
want us to have a real conversation.
want us to have a real conversation about retirement
because when you think about firefight,
because when you think about firefighters, that suit is
heavy those boots are extremely heavy it are there should
be a health component to this. So like I said, I agree
President never going to happen again, but I agree with them
today.
today because there has to be something else that we're
looking at. It's the we we got somebody who is running for
president.
president who said retirement age should go up to 67. Why
would nobody rarely in my family lives past 60 and so
worked my whole life for what?
I I feel like we're setting ourselves up talking.
I I feel like we're setting ourselves up talking about
moving it back when we should be moving it up.
moving it back when we should be moving it up to the to the
police department. You do need also older offices. Not all.
of them. Let me let me say that not all of them not.
everybody should be trained in everybody especially
looking.
at their checkered paths. They shouldn't but we should have
people in both spaces who are at a certain age on.
people in both spaces who are at a certain age on desk Duty
who no longer go out in the field. That's 1 thing. That's
that. That's 1 way we could look at it.
that that's 1 way we could look at it that would make sense
to me because I agree we are getting
to me because I agree. We are getting a younger Department.
You don't have a lot of folks who want to be police
officers more firefighters than police officers.
correct? If we looking at the numbers based on what I'm
hearing from CPS, especially and so I agree that they do
need folks. Who who
need folks who who have that knowledge who who have that
police knowledge.
police knowledge, but to to push the retirement age of know
No, that makes no sense whatsoever. You know how many people
don't make it to?
people don't make it to 60?
And never get to see the things that they work for.
And never get to see the things that they work for their
entire lives. I think we're we're thinking about this.
entire lives. I think we're we're thinking about this in a
backwards way and what I want us to do.
And I've said this before is us sitting down having.
And I've said this before is us sitting down having a
conversation. So I like this there should be some
community.
conversations about this because at the end of the day, it
don't seem like they agree.
And whatever.
And whatever they motives are I don't know what they are.
But for me.
the thought that people are okay with us making it to 67
saying I retire I want to retire at 50.
And want to know why because I've been working my entire
life.
life since I was 19 years old. And so you telling me that I
can't retire until I'm 50 555 60.
can't retire until I'm 50 555 60 know and then it's the
reason why we don't rule move room.
reason why we don't rule move room for young people to take
this over because we sit in those seats till we 60 and this
is the same thing with us. Come on are Burke was here for
4849.
4849 years.
What type of sense that it?
What type of sense that it made no sense for him to be that
long and then it's like who takes this?
long and then it's like who takes this over? Who are we
teaching? How are we teach teaching the Next Generation?
teaching? How are we teach teaching the Next Generation and
you can't do that if you don't have seasoned folks there.
you can't do that if you don't have seasoned folks there
and so I I I there's more work to do on this.
and so I I I there's more work to do on this chairman I
wanted to tell her we're not calling this to vote. Oh, but
I want us to have some more open conversations discussion.
now, I I will say that um,
No matter how you look at it whether you want to retire at
50.
50 whether you want to retire at 45 there folks that
retiring.
retiring in 40s. There's some folks retiring their 50s.
It's their option in life.
I retired when.
I retired when I was 50.
From the police department. It was my option.
It does not change that.
It does not change that option if this moves from 63 to 65.
It's not a mandatory requirement. So.
It's not a mandatory requirement. So what what I'm hearing
from you and our our you just said the the police
department in Pho agrees the fire department.
department in Pho agrees. The fire department does not.
uh for various reasons why they don't agree in various
reasons why they do uh, and yes, the federal government is
looking at and or if they haven't already raise the
retirement.
retirement age to 67. Some folks. Don't don't
retirement age to 67. Some folks don't don't want to retire
simply because they need to work.
And if they're mandatory.
and if they're mandatorily if they mandatorily have to
retire then they still have to work. However, they have to
work somewhere.
work somewhere else.
This gives folks.
This gives folks an opportunity.
If they want to continue to work.
If they want to continue to work because there's a need not
everybody can go sit back on.
everybody can go sit back on a boat and fish some got
families that they're taking care of.
families that they're taking care of some guy become
parents at a late age because they're caring.
grandparents grandchildren for 1 reason or another.
making them mandatory retire at 63
Making them mandatory retire at 63. Um, maybe a wrong thing
in that case.
in that case, but what I'm saying is if someone wants to
retire or wants to stay that is their option is not
mandatory. And so that's why I raised this.
mandatory. And so that's why I raised this because we do
have societal issues.
have societal issues that recall some of that causes some
of us to have to work.
of us to have to work Beyond.
50 Beyond 63. Uh and
50 Beyond 63. Uh, and yes, there are folks that don't make
it there. I've seen officers.
it there. I've seen officers that are retired and didn't
get their first pension check.
get their first pension check that's going to happen as a
matter of life. We live we die. All of us are going to do
both.
And so what I am saying is about in between.
And so what I am saying is about in between you have to
make that conscious decision for yourself.
make that conscious decision for yourself and for your
family whether or not you can and should or want to retire.
It's their option to do so.
And so what?
And so what we're saying is a city as we're taking that.
option away from you, uh at 63
and we're taking that option away to you and what I'm
saying is and what I'm requesting and want to have
him to have conversation on. Uh, what?
him to have conversation on uh, what does 2 years
difference make
So we're asking that we mandatorily do it not at 63, but at
65.
65 and 2020. This was changed to 63.
Times have changed since then most of us.
Times have changed since then. Most of us gas prices have
gone up to 254 somet.
gone up to 254 sometimes 4 or 5 dollars. It depends on
who's in office. The cost of milk has changed the cost of
eggs have changed.
And many of us are only getting 2 or 3% increase of cost of
living increase. We're not keeping.
living increase. We're not keeping up with the pace of cost
of living.
of living and so what happens to that person that turns 63
years old and tomorrow. They're without a job.
years old and tomorrow, they're without a job or they have
to go find a new job.
this allows
This allows them to stay an additional 2 years. So it makes
a lot of sense.
To allow someone Nick you can get your chance. I see.
waving like a Batman.
so it makes
So it makes a lot of sense to allow a person to continue
work.
work because whether the police department or the fire
department that keeps them.
if he's out of his house in in 6
If he's out of his house in in 6 months or a year because
he has to continue to work.
He has to continue to work because his finances are not in
order or her finances may not be in.
order or her finances may not be in order to allow them to
sit back on a boat and fish.
So I say given an option.
under those circumstances
Under those circumstances. Um
Is the right thing to do.
Is the right thing to do in my opinion rather than cutting
them off. Yes it
Said here for many years 50 years, but it was his option to
do so.
do so in his constituents.
allowed him to do that because we're
Allowed him to do that because we're all voted in the
office.
my constituents can retire
My constituents can retire me at the next election if they
want it to.
and
And as you know, I was close to happening.
so
allowing him to sit there for 47 years.
allowing him to sit there for 47 years was not necessarily
on him. He felt it was right for himself.
on him. He felt it was right for himself and his family,
but also his constituent.
also his constituents agreed with him because they kept
electing him.
So unless we come up with a mandatory terms mandatory term.
then we have that option as well to.
then we have that option as well to continue to work to
take care of our families.
take care of our families without being told that tomorrow
you.
You can no longer do this.
so
So many of choose what we choose to run.
So many of choose what we choose to run for re-election
because that's our option.
Imagine having that option taken care of you many of
choose that option because we love what we love serving
people. We love making things different happen in our
communities.
communities, but at the same time
those options can be
Those options can be taken from you if they were mandatory
that you only serve.
that you only serve 1 or 2 terms.
That's the same thing that's here.
They can only serve until they're 6.
They can only serve until they're 62 years old about to
turn 63 the next day.
Raise that so that they can continue to take care of their.
families ultimatum.
I'm sorry, go ahead. I went through. Thank you.
We make people work that long.
We make people work that long that that that's the biggest
problems with this you real.
problems with this you realize people cannot we can't
afford to because we're not if it was up to all the Taylor.
we all retire when we 50 because that's half of your life.
I just spent half of my life of service and I've been doing
this before I was working here. So
not really entertained by people who sit in seats just
because they can you you go to you.
because they can you you go to you you continue and for us
you continue at this.
you continue at this job. It pays well.
you nobody
You nobody you you don't you ain't checking the clock you
get to come and go.
get to come and go as you want to we have a lot of so I'mma
take us out the equation because we have a lot of things
that we can do different.
that we can do different like you can't get corn on time.
It's a problem.
It's a problem Mr. Blakemore didn't lie. That's that's
option. We do things that are optional in these seats the
gentleman that are sitting over in their box. They provide
a service and after a certain age, they shouldn't be asked
to provide that service. Well, they should be given the
option to say I want to retire at 50. I'm sorry. There has
to be a health component because there are some offices. He
said it takes 8 hours.
said it takes 8 hours for them to ask a burglary. Why
they because they've been sitting in them seats. They can't
get up like there has to be some health.
get up like there has to be some health there. I agree with
you. There has to be some health.
with you. There has to be some health concerns or something
added when it comes to health because who's to say at
listen? I'm 48, my bad killing me right now.
I ain't I'm not 50 yet, but I also have had 5 kids so my
body is a lot different.
We should have a I want to have a bigger.
we should have a I want to have a bigger conversation with
them about retirement look like because there's also
um aside to retirement that I've seen if folks that work
for CPS.
for CPS, my mother worked for CPS for 30 years. I told my
brother and sister before she retired when she was 60,
let's wait until we find her something to do every last 1
of her reference.
of her reference that retired at 60 are dead before their
6.
65. Why because they're used to getting up every day.
65. Why because they're used to getting up every day going
to a job and doing the work and when you take that away it
does something so I'm not disagreeing with you. I think
they should have options. I think there should be a real
conversation at what that aged. Look.
conversation at what that age looked like because moving it
up just doesn't that doesn't do anything that doesn't
really get to the issue of why you've been on this job 30
or 40 years while you can't retire at 50 is your body up to
it.
can
Are can you mentally take it because in either 1 of them
jobs?
jobs, I don't want was never on any of my list of things.
was going to grow up to be because I know what comes along
with.
with that job.
and a lot of times we gonna We make decisions for folks who
we never sit at the table and get to ask and why they are
the heads of it have we actually talked to Firefighters and
police and I find out we do that a lot in city council, we
assume and of course you're not assuming because you used
to be a firefight.
to be a firefighter, so I'm not saying that to you. I'm
sorry a policeman. I'm sorry. That's right a policeman, but
I think we assume.
I think we assume and we don't ask enough questions before
we make decisions like this.
we make decisions like this because there are some people
who are there now, who are
who are there now who are 55 and like Lord. I wish I could
retire.
and
And then y'all talking about nationally moving enough to
67.
y'all how crazy as hell if y'all vote for somebody who says
you can.
you can refi retire at 67 know and if you look at our
demographics, we don't live that long.
Thank you. Thank you chairman police can retire at 50.
Yeah.
That's when I left must.
That's when I left must be great.
All Miss.
all Miss madame
thank you chairman for
Thank you chairman. I've been trying to give a point of
clarification so I probably got lost because
clarification. So I probably got lost because of the long
conversation. But yes you're going to retire at
conversation. But yes, you're going to retire at 50 any job
in the city with 20 years and then so, um, that's but my
point of clarification as we were talking about.
point of clarification as we were talking about, um kind of
an EAP thing, but
an EAP thing with fire that police have the mandatory talk
to them after the shooting well by our offers EAP steps.
if you had some traumatic thing a guy in your fire.
if you had some traumatic thing a guy in your Firehouse
died, uh, you you were at a fire and a person died. It's a
very traumatic thing. So there's a EAP component that would
come in and talk to the guys in the house and say can
Do you need help? It's not a mandatory thing. I was at fire
where people died. They would say do we need to talk to you
when I was in the academy 1 of my 1 of my
another candidate died EAP came and talked to us. It was
very traumatic and and that was that was a bit of
very traumatic. And and that was that was a bit of help.
Some people took it harder than others. So they had I'm not
using that as my time to talk. I came in a little bit late.
So I was just say I'd like to hear what president Kenard
has to say. I think it's a terrible idea. Um, certainly for
fire. I don't know police.
fire. I don't know police as well now.
for for
For for fire and the chief will tell you it is he was on a
busy company.
busy company and the job he's doing now chief he could do
this.
this to your 70 EAS, right?
Can can can can you?
Can can can can you can you go back chop and hole? Can you
go chop and a hole in a?
go chop and a hole in a roof at 70 years old?
You know, I mean, that would be a very
You know, I mean that would be a very difficult thing. So,
um people could leave whenever they want and some people
stay certainly on fire Maybe.
stay certainly on fire. Maybe not as much in police that
stay for 30.
stay for 30 35 years. The bottom line is you say they may
need the money. They're working for 10 cents on the dollar.
So the the money is not an issue.
So the the money is not an issue and secondly as electeds
we mentioned elected.
we mentioned elected you can't compare electeds to
policemen and firemen. I don't think but I'd love to hear
what John has to say.
what John has to say about how he feels because I feel he
did John he did open.
did John he did open a remarks. Okay. Well you did opening
remarks about the retirement age. Okay? Yeah. All right.
Well, I just feel I just feel as a policeman if you're a
detective if you're a chief, it's not a problem to
tier 67.
as a
As a PO to be a 67 out there on the street Terr.
As a PO to be a 67 out there on the street terrible idea who
say 67.
I thought you mentioned 67 a couple. No. No, that's I
I know the ordinance was 65 65 I was talking.
I know the ordinance was 65 65. I was talking about the
normal retirement age the normal retirement age.
normal retirement age. The normal retirement age federal
government is 67.
That's to get Social Security. Right? That's not a normal
retirement age. That's to get Social Security depends on
when you were born or what did 65 to
when you were born or what did 65 through 66 for for me.
It's 66 and 9 months for you.
It's 66 and 9 months for you 67 born a lot before I should.
shouldn't say a whole lot you before you were born before
19.
1960 right? I just I put it that way. Yeah, it was more
about okay.
about okay, I I could be your normal retirement age
janette's
Janette's dad your your normal retirement age. It's it's
it's not 67. It's it's 666 and 9 months if you were.
it's not 67. It's it's 666 and 9 months if you were born in
1960 and above.
it
It it increases right all the women leave followed by
alderman.
Alderman the politano. Okay, I didn't I so, yeah.
Were you done Nick? Well, I'm kind of dumb, but I missed.
with John had to say John. Did you have anything to say on
this or did you already have your say?
this or did you already have your say or
Yeah, he did. He spoke for but here's here.
Yeah, he did. He spoke for but here's here's what like once
again a detective a cheap and the police department. I
don't know the job. No problem a p working a busy District.
I think it's it's it's a rough job, but that's just me.
I would just like to add a couple considerations.
I would just like to add a couple considerations and I'm
it's a shame that Alder Taylor left because we're going to
agree on something.
agree on something else. I didn't get to tell her this but
I agree on the doable training, too.
I agree on the doable training too. Um, but that being said
we don't need an Actuarial study to understand the simple
impact.
impact on the pension the police department and the
Chicago.
police pension fund specifically.
police pension fund specifically has at last count and I'm
going this is about a year old.
going this is about a year old data, if not a little older
than that Rob. I think the last number we had was 1800
more.
annuities than officers paying into the fund.
again, almost 2,000 more people
Again, almost 2,000 more people collecting checks than
officers paying into the fund.
officers paying into the fund keeping officers active and
paying.
paying into the fund and not collecting checks is a salve.
to the city number 2 the other savings.
to the city number 2. The other savings to the city is
Healthcare and this is where I recommended to the chairman
that instead of putting the number 65 on there if this is
going to get g g
going to get G gain traction going forward you just make it
a simple.
it a simple definition of Medicare eligible. So if that
number does go up,
number does go up to 66 at some point, we're not reading
it.
again.
Excuse me, if an officer.
Excuse me. If an officer is leaving the active payrolls and
Health Care system.
Health Care system of the city and going straight into
Medicare. That is another savings to the city. You are not
paying.
paying retiree health care and all the associated costs
with that and thirdly lastly we talked about and and Alder
Taylor mentioned this.
we've had
We've had many officers who leave this job after.
We've had many officers who leave this job after 30 35 years
who collect 5.
who collect 5 or 6 pension checks and tragically die.
A lot of them have nothing else in their life. They have
lived on this adrenaline rush of policing for so long. They
don't know anything else. I can't speak.
don't know anything else. I can't speak for fire, but I can
speak for officers and I'm telling you.
speak for officers and I'm telling you a lot of them have
nothing after retire.
nothing after retirement the ability to stay a little bit
longer.
longer might prolong their life a little bit more than you
actually realize. I know there are several officers right
now, who are
now who are bugging me is this going to happen? I don't
want to leave.
want to leave at 63. You asked the question.
want to leave at 63. You asked the question earlier of the
general counsel how many how many firefighters?
general counsel how many how many firefighters have left?
Um and forced out I I could tell you our numbers it used to
be
to be more common than now where in the state of 63
you had to leave not so much with the anti
in the last several years, but we still
significant number of officers who stick around
have to go out the door.
Next president uh alderwoman. Lee followed by Alderman NP
Thank you chairman. Um, and thank thank you all for your
comments today. Um, it's been really enlightening. Um, I
have not talked.
have not talked to any firefighters. I hear all all that
you're saying and I appreciate knowing what the fire
department's stance is on this. Um, I have uh, actually I
have a constituent who um who has already turned 63
And she has now.
And she has now been forced into retirement and that's not
what you wanted to.
what you wanted to do. Um, so I I have talked to
about this and I I agree with you on the value.
about this and I I agree with you on the value of having uh
senior more senior officers on the job. Um, especially
given the big gap. Um,
given the big gap, um in ages of uh of a younger police
force. Um,
I'd like to ask if we can get through.
I'd like to ask if we can get through the chair just um
retirements, uh the same thing that you asked for for the
fire department for the Chicago Police Department as well
because I think it Bears, um some examination of
because I think it Bears, um, some examination of well what
we've seen in the last let's say 5 to 10.
we've seen in the last let's say 5 to 10 years, um in
retirements how when when at what age people are retiring,
um, how long people are staying in uh, because I know
there's a lot of different reasons,
there's a lot of different reasons for for people wanting
to stay and wanting to to go. Um,
to stay and wanting to to go um, but I for 1 definitive
value, um in giving police officers the the option uh to
stay on longer,
That was my only question was.
That was my only question was that thank you alderwoman Lee
Alderman the palitan.
Thank you chairman. Can you hear me? We can hear you well.
Thank you chairman. Can you hear me? We can hear you? Well,
awesome. Appreciate the opportunity to speak on this.
awesome appreciate the opportunity to speak on this. Um,
you know, clearly I think what we should do. Uh, if
possible is do a department analysis.
possible is do a department analysis, um across the board,
uh and and Chicago
uh, and and Chicago departments. I mean because if you look
at other departments, let's just take streets and
sanitations or C dot. Um you
sanitations or C dot. Um, you've got laborers who it's not
the fire department.
the Fire Department job. I get that. I've done them both.
I've done police. I've done fire. I I know what it takes. I
know what it takes out.
know what it takes out of you. But if you look at other
departments in the city of Chicago you got laborers that
are uh in the middle of you know,
are uh, in the middle of you know, 80 90 90 degree days
that are shovel in Asheville.
that are shovel in Asheville, um that are well over 60 63
or 64. I don't think there is a mandatory for some of
departments, uh forcing them to leave as well.
departments, uh forcing them to leave as well as you have
Brick Layers doing it. Um, you've got people
the Bureau of Forestry.
the Bureau of Forestry that are doing it or these are jobs,
person. I mean, you've got uh, uh people that look like
they're in the best shape ever that may have passed away at
Fort
forty years old, um for what we're talking about now.
not be people might not be able to do at an old age.
because unfortunately it was their time uh, or they had a
heart issue. I I even think
a good thing to do is is do a a a breakdown between both
Department.
departments and look at the age group of people that have
passed.
passed on the job during the job. Um,
passed on the job during the job, um of natural causes and
I don't think you're going to see any
Flex in any numbers that are that will be outrageous,
especially on the fire department you
especially on the fire department. You might see an age
that is 58 years old to you know, 30 41 years old where
someone had passed uh in the in the duty of uh, their or
operating in in the capacity of their Duty
because of a heart issue
I think we're kind of.
I think we're kind of missing the point here of this is
Case by case this
Case by case. This is those who feel they're fit enough to
do this job.
do this job and to stay longer on the job. I get the
the the concept that people are worried about.
the the concept that people are worried about pushing or
prolonging promotions for other fire.
prolonging promotions for other firefighters.
um, but unfortunately in a time where right now we might
have an ample amount of people taking these jobs.
Um, but in the future you might not have a big stock.
Um, but in the future, you might not have a big stock hate
of people ready to go on the job. I mean listen if
of people ready to go on the job. I mean listen, if you got
81 million people that voted for a guy. That's 98.
to be a president of the United States the hardest job in
the world. I think we could push for someone to be 63 years
old.
old, uh up to 65 years old to do.
old, uh up to 65 years old to do the job of a firefighter
or or a police officer. I I think we're really missing the
mark on this. Um, and what this could do for our our
and our our departments by adding more Personnel to it,
especially paying into the the
into the the pensions
so question, why is chair is there any
So question, why is chair? Is there any way that we can get
those numbers through the chair of of uh officers, uh, both
police?
police and fire department, uh firefighters and police
officers. Um, if is there a is there an analysis of how
many have passed away on the job due to natural causes, um,
because that would be a great defining moment right there.
for us to look at and other departments. What other
departments how long are they working for in the capacity
of Labor?
of laborers? Um, that might not be doing that job.
of laborers? Um, that might not be doing that job, but
doing an equally, uh tough job
an equally, uh tough job. Um, I I think we should be
pursuing this sir. I'll see if we could get those numbers.
Thank you chair. I'm for this. I think this is a good idea.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank Alano alderwoman tabaris.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank Alano alderwoman tabaris, Mr.
Chairman. Um earlier when we were having technical.
difficulties, I
didn't have a chance to vote on Alderman Martin doll, or
ordinance. I want to be recorded as a no, please.
on that item
I have you marked as no, and I also want to speak on this.
I have you marked as no and I also want to speak on this as
well. I know we're not voting on this. This is a sub.
well. I know we're not voting on this. This is a subject
matter here in but I also support this.
matter here in but I also support this as well and
I also want to see.
I also want to see those numbers that you had requested as
well.
well about how many firefighters are retiring.
well about how many firefighters are retiring at the age of
63, but I also want to see those numbers for the police
Union as well too if we can get those numbers as well. Um,
but I support this I strongly support this increasing the
retirement age to 6.
retirement age to 65, you know, I was recently reading I
came across an artic.
came across an article where the state of Arkansas.
1 of their police officers retired at the age of 93 93
years old and he served 65 years in the police in law
enforcement. Um, I came across that article that was back.
in uh about a year ago, March of 2023 this Arkansas officer
retired at the age of 93.
retired at the age of 93, but uh, we need this I support
this and uh, thank you for having this subject matter
hearing.
Thank you. Alderwoman Alderman Curtis.
Thank you, Shannon 9.
Thank you. Shannon. 95 is a long time. Hopefully he was a
sheriff.
You know in the wild west or something.
But um, I I I can't.
But um, I I I can't agree with all them.
But um, I I I can't agree with Autumn Sado sometimes I
think it depends on the position.
think it depends on the position, uh that you're in ESP.
especially dealing with fire. Uh,
especially dealing with fire, uh, operational, you know,
it's it's kind of scary.
to know um
uh, but there are and
Uh, but there are and and I and I know a lot of 65 year
olds.
olds now that's in super great shape.
olds now that's in super great shape that can go in and and
uh and do the job. Uh,
on operations
uh, but my my question was um, basically for
Uh, but my my question was um, basically for on the police
side. Um,
side, um, and this for the chief for uh, our Union
president,
And we talking about the consent decree. So if we had more
officers that wanted to stay.
and wanted to see um
uh, you know, they're
Uh, you know, they're not forced to leave. They wanted to
stay.
stay and and uh, they want to stay on to help Mentor the
guys that's coming on board. What does that look like for
the consent decree?
Chief navalis again. Uh, so
Chief navalis again, uh, so there there's 2 ways, uh number
1 is having those individuals that can mentor the younger
officers.
officers those folks that have a strong graphs graph of
policy that they can share with those younger officers.
Second is having that historical knowledge on the
evolution.
of policies where they understand how the policy has
evolved and how the new policy applies when we talk about,
uh, you know currently with the addition of uh person
to the academy the additional training officer positions,
lot of those will be retired officers who have that
Institution.
institutional knowledge because it is that important
training itself has requirements in the cons.
training itself has requirements in the consent decree. We
use uh folks with Institution.
use, uh, folks with institutional knowledge to write
policies in our research.
policies in our research and development division. So those
opportunities are there, um to use that historical
knowledge and and that's why it's important for us in the
consent.
I'll just piggyback off of 1.
I'll just piggyback off of 1 example. Um and God
I'll just piggyback off of 1 example um and Godspeed to
Buckshot out of Camden, Arkansas.
Buckshot out of Camden Arkansas great great story. You
should follow up on that guy, but we lost an fto last year,
um to this.
um to this mandatory retirement age and he was literally a
training officer still at 63 years old extremely fit.
training officer still at 63 years old extremely fit loved
what he did extremely knowledgeable. Uh,
what he did extremely knowledgeable, uh working in the 14th
District and uh FDO at
District and uh fto at did not want to leave but had to
leave at 63 I guarantee
leave at 63. I guarantee you he'd still be doing the job
right now expanding the basically knowledge. He has to the
younger Jenner.
younger generation of officers. Um, It's just sad that
knowledge goes out the door because of an age because of a
birthday cake. Um, it shouldn't but thank you.
Thank you. Thank you chair. Thank you Alderman Curtis
Alderman spaz. Thank you chairman. Okay, this is my time to
speak now not a point.
speak now not a point of clarification. So, um first of
all, um, thank you. Once again, uh, I respectfully disagree
with my colleague on on the age change here. I can't speak
on behalf of police. I can only speak on behalf.
on behalf of police. I can only speak on behalf of fire
because I've been there and done it. I
because I've been there and done it I would and and for a
fact I mean I would take a team of 50 year old guys over a
team of 30 old guys any day.
team of 30 old guys any day because they're they're
knowledge and their experience certainly if
busy companies and and new to the job well enough, but
the young man's job. Okay, I mean
The young man's job. Okay. I mean we're not looking at
anything about paramedics a paramed.
anything about paramedics a paramedic could come on the job
at 556 years old. They have no retirement.
at 556 years old. They have no retirement age. They could
stay on forever. That's a very demanding job. I don't know
why we're not looking at something to do with that whether
it's coming on the job or leaving the job but to leave the
to make the age older. I'm sure a lot.
going to be pissed off at me about
man's job. It's
Nothing terrible idea.
retire. Um, this is an election.
job. Um, so I just not something I think is a good idea.
It's not something I can support. Um, but I guess if if
police and fire boats supported it then then I would be
old. There's no doubt about it. So, um certain jobs guys
could do to their 700 but
could clarify and say you could be a detective you
be a fto you could be a chief.
a fto you could be a chief. I'm fine with that. But to say
you have to be out there. You have to be a p or you have to
be a firefighter that goes on the rough Chop on a
the roof at 65 terrible idea. Thank you.
Thank you. Thank you Al.
point of information
Depp
deployment aids for uh military
You know what that is.
You know what? That is deployment age. Yeah. Yeah if if uh
do
uh, do they have 1 no. Well when I went out to uh, when I
started in the military, there was no there was
started in the military there was no there was no, uh
deployment age as long as you were in.
deployment age as long as you were in a in a unit, uh, that
was deploy.
was Deployable. You were subject to being deployed as well.
No matter what age no matter what age
They they have uh, the kadana the Marine Corps.
They they have uh, the kadana the Marine Corps deploys out.
He goes overseas. Uh, you you have generals that are
perhaps the the oldest of those in the military.
perhaps the the oldest of those in the military, uh, that
would deploy out to combat regions. Uh, and so I don't
believe that there's an age whereby, uh, they can't deploy
over.
overseas because many of them serve in a Capac
overseas because many of them serve in a capacity of being
the uh,
the uh being in the capacity to to to actually create
straight.
strategies of war.
And they don't do it from behind.
And they don't do it from behind the desk in Washington in
most cases they do.
most cases. They do it from a deployed area.
Basically, that's the same thing.
Basically, that's the same thing that the police department
is is trying to support.
any other questions or
Any other questions or comments?
Let me thank all the gentlemen for joining us.
Let me thank all the gentlemen for joining us in the box
today and again, uh welcome.
today and again, uh, welcome, uh to the Box. We I tried to
get you there.
get you there a little earlier. So, um,
seeing no further hands raised they're being no further
questions asked.
questions asked and there'll be no further adds before this
committee. Can I get a motion?
committee. Can I get a motion to adjourn? So moved by
Alderman Curtis?
Alderman Curtis the committee on police and fire is here.
adjourned.