Everybody could have their seat.
The comedian license and consumer protection will now come
to order we will begin with a roll call to establish
quorum.
Silverstein is here by Cher Chico president.
all women Coleman restaurant Autumn and more
restaurant
Alderman Cardona president Conway resident, Ormond Beach
It's on me and all the wine Mets is not present Alderman
sposato is not present Alderman. Napoletana was not present
ottoman Riley is not present Alderman Lawson present.
Alderman Gardiner not present
Resume Martin present.
1111 members present we have a quorum and we have all the
woman clay Scott and cruise on remote participation and
Gardener. May I have a motion to allow them?
Autumn and Crotona some moves. Welcome to those members,
who are
handsome
Do we have non members present? We have all the women to
Barbara's alderwoman Taylor.
Are you on the committee?
Okay, an alderman Mosley.
At this time, we would begin the public comment this. Is
limited to 30 minutes out of respect for everybody's time.
Each speaker is limited to three minutes. We will start
with Lenny Dee asaro.
You could just introduce yourself.
Thank you for warming. My name is Lenny asaro. I'm a
partner at the law firm of Baker Drinker Biddle & reath
address 320 South Canal Suite 3300 Chicago 60606. I'm an
attorney and I represent a Family Dollar and Dollar Tree
this The Substitute ordinance of the portion is zoning text
Amendment portion that defines small box retailer wood and
Compass Family Dollar and Dollar Tree our client the
purpose of my addressing the committee has first of all the
substitute ordinance that was circulated last Thursday has
two components one is the business licensing component. It
seeks to amend certain Provisions in the business licensing
portion of the city's municipal code.
Dollar Tree and Family Dollar does not oppose those
particular proposed amendments with respect to the business
licensing changes. I believe that section 1 and section 2
Section 1 Section 2 of The Substitute ordinance
the other the other part of the substitute ordinance is a
zoning text Amendment with respect to zoning text
amendments specifically the city of the City council's
Rules specifically state that with respect to this
particular committee that it is at does not have any
jurisdiction over a zoning text Amendment the city council
rules specifically state that has only text Amendment the
jurisdiction lies with a committee on zoning. Additionally.
There are specific requirements under the zoning ordinance
with respect to zoning text amendments. We would
respectfully ask that this particular committee to limit
its consideration to the business licensing the proposed
amendment to the business licensing because that is clearly
within the legal jurisdiction of this committee.
To the extent that the committee wishes to our desires to
consider the zoning text Amendment we would respectfully
ask that this committee not take any action on that portion
that it if it if a member is inclined to submit a motion
for approval of the substitute ordinance that it would do.
So recommending approval only of the business licensing
portion and that the zoning portion not be approved and
that if anything it would be referred to the committee on
zoning and that all other zoning ordinance requirements
regarding zoning text amendments are applied. And the
reason for that is because of the legal and subject to due
process that is vested in the city council and that's
vested in our client who is affected by this particular
substitute ordinance with respect to the zoning next
Amendment. And so that is what we would respectfully ask
this particular committee to do today again to recap Family
Dollar does not oppose.
The business licensing Provisions Family Dollar does oppose
that there is action taken regarding the zoning text
amendment that thank you.
Next we have Adrian Rodriguez, Illinois Hispanic chamber of
commerce.
Members of city council. Thank you for the opportunity to
speak. My name is Arianna Rodriguez the return policy that
he likes Penny Chamber of Commerce. I'm here today in
opposition to a proposed a small box retail ordinance as a
representative of the leading advocate for Hispanic
business owners and entrepreneurs this measure is trouble a
and economically damaging at worst. I opposed this measure
for two simple reasons. We encourage Latino businesses to
participate in their supply chain of a diversified and
strong echo system. This proposed ordinance will send a
very bad signal two companies that we want to invest that
want to invest in our communities.
2nd it will hurt Working Families many of our members and
constituents who rely on neighborhood Valley source for
affordable household goods conveniently located to where
they live many of the big box. The stores are shutting down
in mosa park underinvested to me. That is that's why I took
all the small box retailers or dollar stores have become
critical sources of a portable household goods in Foods in
our neighborhoods. If enacted this measure will force
hard-working Family Residence Chicago residents to travel
too much water or household products were they likely will
pay higher prices or his angels? We ordered U2 Bono.
Instead we encourage you to table this proposal and create a
more comprehensive is proud of you for solving this
challenges. Thank you for your consideration.
Thank you. And finally we have George like more.
very interesting
I got a education in government.
A big box stores have moved out of the ghetto and the
dollar stores are coming and they have something else to
but typically I showed up as a concerned Phillips.
As a concerned Citizen and I looked at your agenda Madam
and it's unacceptable.
you were supposed to have
a new song be able to educate the public when I get an
agenda. I'm expecting to get knowledge of this projector.
I'm very stupid government Emma Miss campus for several
years, but you write something down as an agenda.
I don't know how this problem going to play out because the
black community are tired of me or dollar stores too and
the big box don't want to come in.
Outback business Don't Own Me dollar stores
So that's why I've been important to have led by Mr.
Blakemore palpable to be present here.
And the second and the gentleman I get educate he said it
both in the zoning committee. I understand these black also
tired of these so-called dollar store, but the big box
don't want you and the dollar store a lot about nothing you
black people open up your own store.
Open up your own store with no money.
Again, it's very important for me to appear send it to
blame or why you always go to become a cheer.
Advocating for our community, but we can say that's why
it's very important for me to show up and I asked Madame
and she brought me that substitute. I'm being educated on
Public Power going.
I'm busy and then I need education on that from Adam Silver
Spring. Whatever you do have failed when you don't have
people here.
You will fail because you are here to serve the public and
you only have one public speak to something.
back-to-back wins over in educating and inviting Opie
Thank you. Mr. Blake Moore.
Thank you to all the speakers today that concludes our
public comment. I would like to know that the committee
received two public written comments of one from Dollar
Tree Family Dollar and one from Irma. These written public
comments have been sent out to the committee members via
email.
We're going to get started on today's agenda. We have two
items on the agenda today. The first up is 0 2 0 2 3 0 0 0
4 9 7 8 a substitute ordinance to amend title 4 and 17 of
the municipal code of Chicago regarding small box Realtors.
A Retailer's I'm sorry. This is from Alderman O'Shea. We
have a substitute for this item and you should all have
received a copy of the substitute does everybody have.
You don't have it. Okay, we're going to get some copies.
Yes ottoman lore.
if we can based on what the attorney said in terms of his
only pick this week it can we get our legal department to
speak on that and to the
Clarification on that can we at least get the substitute
admit it in and we'll definitely have lost week on that.
Cuz if we get the substitute admit it.
Let's just do that really quickly and then we'll have lot
explain that to Alderman O'Shea makes a motion to accept
the substitute introduced a substitute to accept the
substitute all in favor. Say aye.
Opposed the painting of the chairs the guys have at the
substitute ordinances before us.
Read that too from the Law Department. Do you want to just
make a statement on that?
Thank you Chad 1 Silverstein. Thank you members of the
committee or license and consumer protection.
This ordinance before you was introduced on October 4th
2023.
And the city council for this committee?
The commenter noted that this committee has no jurisdiction
to hear this harness. I respectfully disagree to that
conclusion cuz this committee the committee or license and
consumer protection do have jurisdiction on this matter in
the matter is properly referred to this County.
under rule 37 of the City council's Rules of Order
The license committee has jurisdiction over the licensing
of persons.
property
businesses and occupations
and a not decent is that the license committee has
jurisdiction on all matters relating to the Department of
Business Affairs and consumer protection.
So the matter is properly before this committee.
and if this committee has jurisdiction
to hear the arguments and I'll report back to the city
council.
at the point of the process raised this ordinance has been
published to the public as of October 4th.
Not only for a Mazda Mazda3 versus almost 45 miles has he
has been posted on the city council's public facing
website. So I don't see any concerns regarding the
jurisdiction of a disconnected.
Thank you. We're going to move moving right along. I'm
going to ask Alderman O'Shea to talk about this ordinance.
Thank you. The chair recognizes all the mentorship.
Thank you German Silverstein. Good afternoon.
I'd like to talk about this ordinance briefly.
We also have two witnesses who will offer testimony.
the Law Department in business Affairs and consumer
protection are also here in the room and answer any
questions any members may have
The Substitute ordinance that is before all of you this
afternoon
Create a regulatory structure for small box retailers more
commonly known as dollar stores.
A regulations focus on two key areas of concern first a
lack of basic maintenance and upkeep that dollar stores
across the city of Chicago.
And second the impact of dollar stores on the surrounding
commercial strips and they're contributing role in our very
serious food desert problem in our city.
Ladies and gentlemen, there are currently 150 licensed
Dollar Tree Family Dollar or Dollar General locations in
Chicago.
Four of those locations are in the 19th Ward with a fifth
opening soon.
Drive past any of these locations on any giving day and you
will see overflowing dumpsters garbage and litter
throughout the parking lots broken fences grocery carts
tipped over in the parking lot and on the public way.
broken light fixtures
if however you drive through one of the predominantly white
Suburban communities near my ward as I have you'd find
dollar stores with parking lots free of debris dumpsters
not overflowing.
grocery cards stacked neatly
and lights and fences that operate properly.
Over my nearly 13 years here in this body my staff and I
have more unreturned phone calls and emails from Dollar
Tree than I could count.
Through those conversations with my colleagues. I learned
that more than 40 members of the Chicago city council have
had the same experiences.
This is not a struggling small business barely making ends
meet and this post-pandemic world.
Ladies and gentlemen, this is the fortune 200 company that
is demonstrated. Absolutely. No interest in being a good
neighbor or being responsive to local government.
As a starting off point this ordinance will require all
dollar stores in Chicago to display. I'm in front and back
of their building a placard with appropriate contact
information for maintenance or emergency information.
This is done. So that members of this body board
superintendents and even members of the general public in
Easley contact management for these locations and Report
maintenance or building safety issues.
Based on commitments from Dollar Tree and in the spirit of
collaboration, we will mitad maintenance-related penalty
enhancements from The Substitute ordinance. It is my hope
that moving forward we can work together with store
ownership to avoid a scenario where such penalties would
even be needed.
That being said this is something that may be Revisited if
we do not see improvements that have been promised.
The second problem we are seeking to address with this
substitute ordinance is the impact the dollar stores have
on existing businesses.
and their role in creating food deserts
Now ladies and gentlemen, this is obviously far more
complex than the maintenance concerns.
Dollar stores tend to rely heavily on both purchasing and
centralized distribution allowing them to offer products at
extremely low prices this puts them in direct competition
with small businesses and local grocery stores that may
struggle to match these prices do their limited scale and
resources.
dollar stores
are also somewhat unique in the Retail Landscape because
they have a history of oversaturating a commercial area
under cutting existing small businesses and making
unattractive to new retailers.
Especially grocery stores to enter the marketplace.
In doing so dollar stores inadvertently contribute to the
creation and the proliferation of food deserts in your
communities.
A dollar store enters the neighborhood over time. It drives
out Independent Grocers the specialty food shops many
who've operated for Generations limiting access to health.
healthy food choices
Big Chain grocery they don't want to open near a dollar
store and deal with their prices being undercut small
independent stores don't have the resources to compete.
The only remaining option is yet more dollar stores.
The absence of accessible fresh food options is linked to
adverse Health outcomes including higher rates of
diet-related diseases and obesity.
In essence the over-reliance on dollar stores or food
within a community contributes to a cycle of poor health.
To combat this trend and provide support to small business
owners. This ordinance imposes a one-mile distance
restriction between Dollar Stores of common ownership.
Distance restrictions of various types have been
implemented in a number of cities across the United States
including in Tulsa, Oklahoma.
Today, we are joined by Vanessa Hall Harper from the Tulsa
City Council.
Counselor Hall Harper Lee discharge in her City and went on
to open a new grocery store in her District. Did you hear
that? She worked hard to open a new grocery store in her
District?
I'd like to thank councilman hall for taking the time to
travel here today all the way from, Oklahoma.
Also, he remotely is Kennedy Smith from The Institute for
local self-reliance Kennedy partnered with Vanessa on her
important work and has been involved in similar efforts in
many other cities across our country.
I think the committee will be very interested to hear what
they have to say, and I'd like to thank James Sherman
Silverstein for allowing Kennedy to participate remotely
today.
That concludes my comments.
Thank you. We do have Kennedy Smith this remote, so I'll be
there. I'm here. Can you hear me? Yes, please proceed.
Great. Thank you a Ultima Noche for inviting me and thank
you German Silverstein for letting me eat that testify
remotely. My name is Kennedy Smith. I'm a senior researcher
for the institute for local self-reliance, which is a
national nonprofit organization that advocates for strong
local economies. I worked directly with neighborhood cities
and states for over 30 years initially with the national
Main Street program where I served as president for 14
years and has a private sector consultant helping local and
Regional government entities create Innovative Economic
Development strategies that are based on small business
growth and Community wealth creation, and now with the
institute for local self-reliance for much of the past
three years at ilsr. My work is focused on examining the
impact of chain dollar stores on locally owned businesses
and local economies. I've written several reports about The
Packaging dollar stores one of which has received almost
200,000 hits and the downloaded tens of thousands of times.
We hear about many different types of problems with chain
dollar stores. For example crime and increasingly violent
crime largely a result of the dollar stores between
operating model and thin Staffing unsafe conditions due to
merchandise overcrowding which is ensuring a result of
understaffing and warehousing problem. The Department of
Labor's occupational safety and health administration. In
fact has found more than 300 safety violations and
inspections of roughly $500 tree Family Dollar Stores
between 2017 and 2022 and OSHA added Dollar General to its
severe violator enforcement program last year.
We also find lots of chronic problems with deceptive
pricing from scanner errors that result cumulatively in
millions of dollars of overcharges for Dollar Store
customers scanner errors of 2% or less of products and are
considered permissible in Most states the county and state
Departments of weights and measures throughout the US have
routinely found error rates in the tree dollar stores in
the teams in Simon says even as high as 80% and almost
always in favor of the store not the Shopper almost all
states have now find the two major dollar store chains for
scanner errors and a few States, Missouri, New Jersey, Ohio
have sued them in order to compel them to correct this
chronic tooth problem former, Ohio attorney general Marc
Dann estimates, the Dollar General alone, maybe
overcharging customers as much as a hundred million
dollars.
What she calls a crime wave dollar stores also also have
cheater sizes as a result of their suppliers that makes
Shoppers believe they're getting Bargains, but they're
actually quite Shoppers more on an ounce per ounce basis
that they would usually pay in full service grocery stores.
But by far the biggest problem that we see is the
substantial negative impact of chain dollar stores on food
stores and on the market for future food stores by locating
in close proximity to one another dollar stores over to
saturate local markets leeching steals away from any other
existing businesses such as hardware stores office supply
stores and in particular grocery stores, locally owned
businesses investor profits little late and build local
generational wealth, Jean dollar stores extract money from
the community and send it off to their shareholders in
equity investors losing even a small percentage of sales
can put a locally-owned business risk. They don't have the
Deep Pockets of national chains. Although their impact on
local economies is far superior. There are obviously a
number of factors that contribute to the creation of food
deserts, but there is no doubt that the presence of chain
dollar stores is one of the most significant of them and
also one of the easiest to solve by regulating their
development.
Double peer-reviewed Studies have been published in the past
year demonstrating the significant role that chain dollars
for his play in creating and exacerbating who deserts there
too and particular that I wanted to mention to you today,
and I'd be happy to provide you the link so that you can
read them in detail. If you could be we should do so one of
them was produced by UCLA and the University of Toronto
looking at 800 communities and the impact of dollars
towards their they found that people spend 14% Less on
Fresh Produce with one dollar store nearby and if there is
three or more dollar stores nearby people spend 30% Less on
Fresh Produce obviously having a significant impact on
their health, they found that the presence of three chain
dollar stores within a 2-mile radius needs to the death of
a full-service grocery store.
And they did a simulation looking at what would the
business landscape be? Like if no dollar stores that open
after 2010 they found that we would have 54% more grocery
stores and 47% were convenience stores in the u.s. Today.
The second study was done by the University of Connecticut
North Dakota State and US Department of Agriculture. They
look specifically at independently owned grocery stores and
they found that one out of every 20 independent grocery
stores will close within a few years of a dollar store
opening and the result is magnified significantly two or
three dollar stores enter the immediate market area.
I recognize that regulating Dollar Store development is of
course not the only remedy to the complex problem of food
deserts, but we have found that no other potential remedy
is likely to work if the neighborhood is oversaturated
dollar stores. It's for that reason that so many
communities are now creating minimum distance requirement
between dollar stores requiring that new chain dollars
worth looking at least one mile away and increasingly more
like 5 miles away from existing dollar stores.
Drop up we often hear that neighborhoods the neighborhoods
in which team dollar stores tend to locate need retail. So
I not dollar stores. I have two thoughts about that first.
There are ways to develop new food stores and more broadly
to make healthy food available to our neighborhoods, but
you'll hear from councilwoman Vanessa Hall Harper letting a
chain dollar store in might be an easy way to increase
neighborhood retail, but it may also be and the second
thing is that regulating neighborhoods. Sorry that that
really needing neighborhoods to Dollar stores for food
options is essentially the same as telling residents. They
don't deserve better than this. I believe that the city of
Chicago wants better for its residents. Thank you very
much.
Thank you, Kennedy. And now we're going to ask Vanessa Hall
Harper.
Please introduce yourself. Absolutely. Thank you so much
for being here. Thank you, So stay for the invitation.
Again. My name is Vanessa Harper represent district one
Black Wall Street Greenwood. Hopefully you all have heard
of that community and in a very proud to do so so getting
good afternoon. I have served my community since 2016 when
I want one of my first election and I hold a political
science degree in pre-law and a master's degree in
management. In addition to having a degree at work in
public health for over 20 years with our Tulsa City-County
health department and I work in public health related to
Tobacco prevention as well as nutrition and obesity. And so
I know firsthand how communities can be desperately
disenfranchised and really by systems and in Market, you
know that you hear that a lot.
Talking about limiting anything related to to two stores and
business that the market dictates oftentimes weed in this
country cuz we were built on capitalism as a nation to let
the market dictate if it makes money that it must be good
and that is simply not the case in my opinion. I believe
that as elected officials as policymakers as legislators.
We have a responsibility to find out what is harming
community and to use legislation in a way that can manage
that and if we don't then we're not fulfilling our duties
and responsibilities and our oldest of office that we take
in order to protect communities and protect people.
Tulsa bus was one of the first cities to pass legislation
limiting the proliferation of dollar stores. I want to stay
up front. I am not anti dollar stores. I am not against
dollar stores. I've never been but I am against the
liberation of dollar stores because the police Federation
of dollar stores. It's what causes harm.
And I know this is a Citywide ordinance in Tulsa. And we
are as much smaller city. Of course, we will just right
under half a million in the city limits of Tulsa in the
little Vermilion County. But the problem was that they were
proliferating and they only proliferate one part of
community and is systemic. Why is something systemic cuz if
you can experience the very same thing in any City you
going to in this country is so this is a harm to black
brown and poor communities.
I will say that initially people within city government and
within my city government was trying to get me to pass a
Citywide ordinance was zoning Amendment and and I knew that
it would fail but that's what they were trying to push me
to do because they too knew that it would fail but again,
you know how to put science degree. So a fool I'm not and I
knew that that was a setup.
And so even with an government that will be individuals
pushing their agendas to push to maintain the status quo.
Then what is that status quo of capitalism, right? And so I
thought to make sure that it was just an issue for my
district because that's where it was. You you didn't have
to liberation of dollar stores. You don't have to lift
ratio account. So she mentioned earlier you don't have this
but you don't see the split for action and affluent white
communities. They don't go to affluent white communities
and in create these these food deserts and when I was doing
this back in 2017, like 16 or 17, there wasn't a lot of
data out there that proved that the proliferation of these
dollar stores that's actually causes food deserts. And so I
was going based mostly on my my experience working in
public health and Common Sense.
Common sense because I as I drove around my district and
everytime I see I saw a dirt being moved. I'm thinking
we're getting something.
And in 90 days cuz I got it down less than 90 days from
turning dirt to open the door open the doors 90 days. It's
another dollar store. And so I think it's important also to
know the history of these dollar stores in historically
Family Dollars were mainly in urban communities Dollar
Generals were mainly in rural communities.
And when do Dollar General decide that they were going to
expand their Market in move into urban communities in my
community and I think in a lot of communities the number of
dollar stores basically doubled
and so I went from having five or six in my community to
have him 1011 like that.
Another example, I work with New Orleans. Everyone is
familiar with Hurricane Katrina. And in one particular
there was one particular would I believe it was for work
for that was that was harmed greater where they basically
just had to raise the entire community and start over until
there were a lot of people and businesses and homes that
did not come back. And so there was a lot of cheap land.
Anna counselor from that District called and said before
hurricane Katrina had for discount dollar stores in my
district.
Afterwards doing the rebuild 16.
in the same ward
it so this is not by accident or happenstance is by Design
and it is very intentional and is only done in black brown
and poor communities white communities won't allow it.
They won't allow it's just a simple fact. And so I ran on a
platform to build a healthy community and that was my
community. And one of them Number One issues was black
about grocery store have been 14 years since we had a full
service quality grocery store and I district and when there
was a at the time when all of this was going on, we first
put a moratorium in place. The moratorium was for six
months in the end of that six months was too let's figure
out how we can permanently in legislatively address this
issue. And we eventually got the healthy neighborhoods
overlay. That's what we called. Our organs healthy
neighborhoods overlay past but it allowed for that 6 months
within that 6 months or right before it started another
Dollar General moved into our community. I reached out to
Dollar General.
Personally and ask them because they have a market concept
store. I don't know if you've ever seen one. There's only
two and our state and they're out and Rule Rule Oklahoma,
so I haven't seen them up just heard of heard about them,
but they have a market concept store where they actually
served sell fresh fruits and vegetables and fresh meats.
And so I asked them if you going to build another store in
my district, can you please make it a market concept store
so that we can have fresh fruits and vegetables at least
access to it.
And of course, they did not even bother to respond because I
don't have to it's about marketing. It's about market and
money-making. And so I protested they bust.
National news at one store. They allowed one aisle and put
some fruits and vegetables on there to get us out there
from protesting in front of their stores.
Only been in that store one time I refuse to go in there. I
went in there because of national news station. Was there
interviewing me. So we went all went in to show them the
mess that they call fresh fruits and vegetables. They're
not a grocer and they never will be any of these dollar
store. They're not Grocers. So they don't have someone in
in that department rotating food out rotating making sure
it's healthy make sure there's not gnats and different
things accumulating in the fruits and vegetables are not
writing because that's what you'll find me cuz they're not
a grocery store. That's why we have to have access to these
growth to it to healthy food options.
And the reason why dollar stores when they come in, they
asked as Kennedy was saying the impact is is less than a
year that they will close grocery stores with shutter. They
will close the door because they concentrate if you've ever
been to has anyone does anybody in here rely on dollar
stores to feed their families.
Fortunately, we don't but there's a lot of a lot of
families to do and that's what I saw when I was driving
around in my community. I saw families and individuals
leaving these dollar stores with five bags in each hand 10
bags. You can look through the bag and see if they're
buying food and I knew it immediately for my public health
background. There's nothing in those bags. That's healthy.
It was a study done in Tulsa in 2012 that made that
measured the life expectancy gap between one side of town
in the other side the rich the poor the black and white
14-year life expectancy Gap.
You live 14 years longer. If you lived in South Tulsa then
if you live in North Tulsa cities do it all over all the
time. I'm sure if you connect with your public health
departments think they've done similar studies that has
that has in Tulsa. It has gone down. It's about 11 almost
12 years now, so we've shortened it about two years, but
that's still far too long.
Simply by your ZIP code simply because of where you live.
And that's the reality again is systemic. It doesn't matter
which city you go in in this country. It's the same thing
and we have a responsibility as legislators to identify
these issues and to address them through legislation and
not just say I'm an economist. I'm saying that because
there was some people on the council that said that I'm an
economist. And so therefore I can't vote for something like
this what we just let the market dictate in those things,
right?
because living in a capitalist society that America is then
you going to always have those that have and those that
don't have
And that's that's the simple fact of the situation again.
I'm not against dollar stores. I just I just go against the
police Federation of them. And so I also want to share some
as I was working on this and it started in 2017. We
actually passed the moratorium in September late 2017 and
the healthy neighborhoods overlay was passed in April some
six seven months later in April of 2018, but why we were
doing that we went through several Grocers trying to reach
out. I was trying to reach out. I'll call the neighborhood
Walmart right the small or not the Super Walmart, but the
neighborhood walk. Do you have neighborhood Walmart to
okay. I just want to make sure so call them to say hey, I
know you want you're not going to bring a big super Walmart
to my district. Can you can you come in and just have our
neighborhood Walmart? Mike same with all these the smaller
floor plan same with Save-A-Lot national chain worked with
all of these types it connected to try to get them to come.
None. None were interested.
None were interested. So we had to start from scratch. But
while I was doing this, I want to share something with you
from Save-A-Lot who said while we welcome healthy
competition. It is our opinion that a market oversaturated
with small convenience type dollar stores would negatively
affect honor Capital which was the company under capitals
ability to add future stores throughout Tulsa.
Serve Garden community.
A developer who was wanting to build a develop a mixed-use
residential cuz we just like most of the country housing is
an issue as well. But was looking to do a mixed breed and
Housing Development. He says we have noted with much
concern the proliferation of low-budget convenience stores
Dollar General Family Dollar Dollar Tree with in North
Tulsa at last count up words of 14 such stores were located
north of Admiral Boulevard with one plan to break ground in
the next month less than two blocks from the Mortons
Reserve development, which is which is the one that I was
mentioning earlier that we protested by Pine Place
development is an Ardent supporter of free-market
principles and healthy competition. We are deeply concerned
that another convenience store selling an overwhelming
amount of processed foods high in trans fat saturated fats
nitrates and high-fructose corn syrup will be entering the
market less than 1/2 a mile from our existing convenience.
From the existing convenience store. It is our position
that the City of Tulsa should not further endanger the
health and wellness of its citizenry by allowing
development of these and similar stores and see owned and
controlled property one. Tulsa deserves. No less from its
public leadership one. Tulsa is one of the City of Tulsa
Montrose that we boast I take issue with it, but that's you
know, it is what it is. And so in Tulsa to Tulsa
Development Authority the urban renewal
May be familiar with what some of these terms have land that
they eminent domain and and took and basically took from
black families. And so this land a lot of this land sits
undeveloped. And so the Tulsa Development Authority in
Tulsa is responsible for bringing in developers. And so
they sell that land to 22 future developers at a very
discounted rate and historically I had actually filed a
lawsuit against the Tulsa Development Authority because I
believe that that the decisions that were being made we're
not in the best interest of the people if all you're doing
is selling these this property to Dollar stores and not
working as well as we could to bring a full-service grocery
store in that that that's a problem. That's not serving the
community. Well as a woman would you mind just wrapping up?
Yes, absolutely. Okay, and so I just want to say that you
know, this is a fight that I thought out in and I'm and I'm
thankful to be able to share this information with as many
CD's as I could we did open in 2021 a full service quality
grocery stores call Oasis Oasis Fresh Market, and we are
looking to open up.
Location as well as well as partnering with other cities in
Arkansas to to start the school service quality grocery
stores in those communities as well. Thank you for your
time, and I'll have any questions anyone may have thank you
so much.
Are there any questions from committee members?
Alderman Villegas
Thank you. Thank you ma'am. I'm going to take my colleague
from the 19th Ward for bringing this ordinance Ford. I
think that a lot of us that have these dollar stores and
Dollar Tree stores in our Wards have that frustration and I
am talking with the sponsor could sense that. He was
frustrated and really empathize with their frustration. But
since the introduction of this ordinance, I can tell you
that I've never spoke to so many people from Dollar Tree
and dollar store since my nine years in office. But the one
thing I want to say is that there since then they've
expressed a commitment to I put forward government Affairs
staff to deal with the alderman they put forward
opportunities for Asset Management in Facilities Management
within their facility. I'm so the overall concept of the
legislation around
around making sure that we have a good corporate Partners.
I support just a distance that I have some concerns within
and hopefully as we move forward or they can further be
further discussion around a shortened the distance but this
is something this is an ordinance that I think based on
talking to my colleagues about the frustration glad that my
colleague brought forward to sponsor. So at this point
because of the distance
I'm not sure if I can support it yet. Thank you. Thank you.
A lot of them are a couple of questions and if I can ask
the council for Tulsa The Oasis Fresh Market, how long have
they been around in Tulsa. Before coming into your
particular neighborhood is it they were brand new? And so I
tried we we reached out to existing Grocers and they would
just not interested in. So we literally built a grocery
store from the ground up the building as well as when you
say we the community who myself along with other young
woman by the name of Rose Washington Jones. She runs our
cdfi. It's called Tulsa Economic Development Corporation.
You can Google that and we used some cdbg funds her dollars
in order to to address food insecurity. That is one of the
issues that that you can use those funds for
we recruited a young man who had years several years
experience in the grossing industry. So the store itself,
the building itself is still owned by t e d c a j a Johnson
& Johnson use me Aaron Johnson own to the store and he did
with his coursing experience was able to come in when we
purchased the built not only Built the building but also
the equipment and so
We had to build and establish a grocery grocery store
because we could not get existing grocery stores to come in
and then a couple more questions going back to cancel sofa
Clarity. Is this a zoning Amendment or no on this under we
all clear all good everybody all good on the first item. We
are we all good. They do I buy a dress with you. I said my
question was was it it's the jurisdiction of this
committee. You answered that my question to you is is it a
zoning Amendment?
This ordinance has a zoning element to it, but it is
predominantly a business regulation ordinance.
You said has what does it mean to have a zoning? Alabama is
a zoning in that's my question. Is it a zoning Amendment?
Yes or no?
The answer to that is now because it is predominantly a
business accounts was telling me that is not a zoning
Amendment Amendment because they're stick-ons to refer this
matter to the last question to you was is this item that
second item is it is only amendment yes or no disorder
disease one indivisible. It is one ordinance that you can't
you can't. Authorized.
Stuff it at something else and Pasta Vita something else. It
is one piece of Ordnance. It is a business regulation
ordinance. It's properly before the license committee about
that answer because I want to get to the gist of this the
first part we all agree on and we're going to where it will
get there. That's the second part in terms of the the
one-mile radius the the change and in some other place. I'm
glad you brought this up because now in this conversation
is bringing more dynamics that we may have to discuss on it
and part of that is if these
Operators one can do fresh more Fresh Market food in the
entire York concern Council woman. I understand what you're
saying. But I just know from Chicago in the communities
that I serve in even before these dollar stores and trust
me. I'm not a protector of them. But what I what I wear I
would say is that they were they were not the cause of
stores not coming here first or it's not coming here and
when you got people like Pete & Tony's who do what we call
real estate deals. They don't they do real estate deal.
They don't do grocery stores and my good friend. Eric
Curtis can tell you that we've had a Ultra Food.
That was just vacant for years and his Ward and all of us
have tried to get people to come in and they tell us we do
real estate deals and not until New the South became
available as a real estate a big piece of real estate that
they want to come. It was for the real estate not for
groceries. So I'm not convinced that the dollar stores do
not cuz if it was I'll be the first to say take him out but
part of it is that they come in and yes, I have a problem
because it it does bring some type of food, but we we want
to look at healthy options and I guess that's the push that
we want to look at and have that conversation more globally
because if we push them out
whatever it is healthy or unhealthy and I prefer healthy
but people eat Lucky Charms people eat cans of soup. Those
are be gone there be gone and nobody will be here to save
us both the local small grocery stores that's ran by
different other communities and we got we deal with the bad
fresh fruits and all of that stuff. So this is that item
that this is an issue that needs to be addressed and I was
hoping or the milkshakes on was first brought to have made
it was a more less about this problem that we agree with on
his first part the second part, I guess I guess I wouldn't
be able to sleep at night with going into more detail and
digging of this and I
I was wishing hoping we can separate this that part out
until we have further conversation. So yeah, that's all I
have to say right now.
Thank you, Alderman Moore.
Alderman Cardona
Thank you teacher woman. Thank you. My colleague chairman.
Sorry Alderman O'Shea for bringing this.
When I got elected in 2019, I have like four kind of dollar
stores and I reached out to them and I ended up speaking to
this guy named Mike Tracy.
Mike Tracy anytime I had an issue. I will call Mike Tracy
Mike Tracy and I will get together and we'll figure it out
and it had to be with either garbage. We had homeless
issue. We had broken fences.
That's something him and I kind of I kind of worked at
relationship out and all the sudden. I got things done. I
am I'm very sorry for you. All the men will say that you
called and no one responded. I think I got lucky because I
found this guy who was part of the whole corporate and he
was helping me out with my Dollar Trees in my neighborhood.
That being said I know within the last year or so you're in
a half. I started seeing my Dollar Trees being dirty and
things like that. I will call Mike Tracy and I will get no
response because I did not know that he has shifted to
another position in the it it into corporate ward world of
Family Dollar but to be quite honest when
Our colleague Alderman O'Shea came, I was really frustrated
and I understand his frustration because it is just got out
of hand and you know, we will call and again I felt again
not being hurt and that's why I agreed to sign off on his
his Hornets. They came into our neighborhoods. Cuz every
set of Chicago has communities are different Community. But
Mike Reagan Hermosa, Avondale and South Portage, I have
four and within the four they're actually over a mile away.
And there is also an Aldis or Tony's around within within
500 ft 200 or less or a thousand from the area of the of
the dollar have dollar stores.
I'm going to that is let's look at what dollar stores are.
It's like a One-Stop shop when you're buying something fast
and going and going into the house because sometimes he
forgets so I got to go buy some if you need some for
Refreshments water all that things that we need. It's a
one-stop-shop like our little commercial neighborhood
stores. I get it that, you know, there's no fresh Fresh
Markets it in the store. I think we'd there's something
that we could probably talk to them to bring in their in
their stores. But for me, I I mean, I look at Dollar Tree
as a One-Stop shop before if you miss something at the
groceries you could get it there and and then take it home
always to Amway concert of businesses cuz I come from a
small business family and I just have have concerns because
we're going for one and and we had a
another end and I think the whole distance or four thousand
square feet that I have an issue with that. I would say if
there's a way we you know, if we could have just say Okay
Dollar Tree or Family Dollar they're doing their good to
help with sanitary fixing wide skates and all that give it
six months to see how their behavior because once we called
them out. They started acting and he started fixing things
and trying to make things work for us and making our
neighborhoods cleaner, and I know they already hired a
management company.
So my stores are still clean. They're still there still
there. So I have an issue with the distance but also with
the square footage and you know, if they would consider it
if it was something else for sanitation or things like
that. I think we should just we should hold off and see how
how the players will play with in six or eight months to
see if they continue doing what they're doing and that's
actually fixing their their site and keeping it clean for
the community on that note. I'm really having a hard time
with this and I will be a no on the boat.
I'm going to have all the 10 stages respond.
Alderman Cardona, respectfully you and I had several
conversations about this isn't the first time I've heard.
You are in full support of this up until 7 minutes ago.
This does not affect any existing dollar stores. If if any
existing dollar stores were to include a pharmacy fresh
poultry meat root vegetables. This would not apply to them.
I think it's important that I say to everybody in this room
for several years.
I have emailed and telephoned.
Dollar Store operators at the corporate level
all the way down to the existing stores
No response, not at all. And when I went around this room
four months ago, I had more than 40 colleagues tell me
similar stories.
And now today as I see multiple attorneys and people
associate with dollar stores here in the gallery.
I've talked to three elements of the today's the first day
I talk to these people.
What the hearing or four months into this?
We often talk in this body about food deserts and what we
going to do about food deserts.
councilman here from Tulsa, Oklahoma who fought this
And successfully put in a grocery store in an underserved
neighborhood.
It's disappointing to me that people for 4 months have
said.
Oh, no, this is a real problem.
And today with the lawyers in the room pulling people out
of the building have a different story. This is a real
problem Citywide, but it's especially a problem and
underserved communities.
Automan Taylor
thank you madam chair, so
Alderman O'Shea, I will just say that they're worser than a
corner Star Wars the liquor stores in the bad gas stations
that are on our community in 2021. Both of my daughters
work for Family Dollar. That's an alderman Moore's Warren
and what I will say about all the memorious he did try to
Advocate on behalf of me and my children. So imagine this
going into a store you and your sister work there. The big
sister is in the back the little sister and his is in the
front the little sister gets a gun pulled on her because
they got security but no armed security and because they
don't have a relationship with the the police district.
This didn't happen. Once this thing happened twice. This
happened three times after time, but now superintendent was
the deputy Commander. Did I did I not have to call him to
say this is a consistent problem with the dollar store. So
don't give me that they've been good to our community day
been good to us cuz they ain't the only here because we
call this and we're calling them to the carpet. They are
the worst ever. I wouldn't trust them to serve me a fruit a
vegetable and nothing else cuz their stores are filthy.
They don't keep the trash up in front of the community and
my community. There's one a block up from my house and
every other week. I'm calling him about a gate that's down
which causes people to come in and out of that that portion
of the community. They have not been a good partner.
They're actually the worst and we're not even going to talk
about not even them overcharging us what they're doing with
the food how they went up on their prices. What happened to
it being the dollar store last $4.10 of dollars $0.20. They
went up on their prices and their quality has gotten
better, but riding by their management and the people
Is ridiculous literally my daughter was asked by her
manager.
So bring her carry and conceal because he did not feel safe
him along with six other employees walked out and he left
his keys. Where was the dollar store then? What was the
management will let the Lord use it so I get no sympathy
for me and the thought that we're going to continue to
allow them to have bad business and our community is
problem at a lot of those stores that you talked about
earlier are problem.
Is it damn Sho Save-A-Lot there a yellow banana is
ridiculous. And so I'll I appreciate you coming and we
should be having a conversation about us building our own
grocery stores in our community what we hold them
accountable because this doesn't work Walmart. Ain't no
better y'all talk about little Marcus. They're all
horrible. They have not been good to our community. I'm
from be a sleepy. I would like to see I guess to the chair
how many complaints you all have had in the last four years
against Family Dollar family General Dollar General,
whatever they're called cuz they've been the worst and I
don't care if I drop a lawyer's here, where are they? They
are not here to answer any questions which is fine, which
is a disrespect us, but they want to move in our community.
I would love for y'all to put up a a map to show where
they're concentrated at and I guarantee you I know exactly
what are concentrated at absolutely black and brown
neighborhood. Will they do the bare minimum and so Madame
Sherri?
And Alderman O'Shea, I see your I still support you on
this, but I will not I do not want them to show serve
fruits and vegetables for what?
The dollar store in my community had an employee killed and
it store last year, you know, they open the next day cuz
this is type of stuff that they make they care about in our
community. They don't and what did you say? They are
Fortune 500. Is that what you said?
Fortune 200 company that sets up in the black community and
takes advantage of the people that live there they don't
even pay a living wage. They don't have enough workers
which is why when you go to the store is trash everywhere
is dirty. They have pallets of merchandise that aren't even
picked up to the point so bad that you see people opening
up boxes to buy stuff out of boxes. Where is that
conversation? Where is that and I'm sure the fancy lawyers
got to appreciate an answer for that. But this is not us
not in an attempt at my right all them or how long did it
take them to call you back.
Absolutely. You ain't got to answer all to me more. Thank
you. You went to the doctor. He said all and when I called
him what I appreciate about all them or is he took the time
to say hey, how are your daughters? How was your family?
You think I got that from them which is why I told my
daughters to quit but everybody does not have that luxury.
But if you look at that how many times has been robbed? You
ain't got to answer all to me more. Let's look it up. Let's
hear can we get from CPD how many times do stars have been
robbed? And I'm sure it's extremely high. Thank you madam
share. Thank you. I'd like to remind all those in the
gallery that there is a code of conduct and when our men
are speaking, I would appreciate
And if you could give them the respect they need.
like to call Aaron Mosley
Thank you madam chair.
I'm someone who has fond memories of growing up going to
Dollar Trees on Saturday with my grandmother and having
some of the best experiences because of that price because
I was able to save up for my allowance in and have the
shopping spree. You can imagine my disappointment as this
business has just continue to dwindle and quality it so I'm
thankful to my colleague in the 19th Ward. Who is the
neighbor next to me or if I'm quite honest my residence
consisting look at and say what is the 19th or doing? Why
is there a higher standard of businesses there? And so
would you were doing today is bringing a standard all
across the city of Chicago with this?
I want to talk about that. This is not focusing on a
business but how you do business 21st Ward is home to Three
Dollar Trees for Family Dollars at all provide a great
service that at times can be need it right but let's talk
about how the problems are never fixed that there are
chronic problems. We talked about all the trash talk about
the store cleanliness. We talked about the expired
Beverages and Foods the break-ins the burglaries the
adherence to the post is store hours for the lighting the
parking lots the fences but no helium for the balloons to
celebrate great occasion and the refrigeration issues that
we have not seen solutions to until this was before when
this was put forward. I had a representative finally reach
out to our office to get assistance and cleaning a fly done
behind and that is what has started the relay.
But it wasn't until then that there was a callback that
there was a response to an email. Even when this was put
forward. I had to lawyer that was represented here today
reach out to me. Tell me the week of about a meeting that
was going to happen and then say that hey we're going to
reschedule something because of timing and that never
happened that did not happen.
We can't count on a Mike Tracy or Alonzo Tate these
anomalies that seemed to be the situation with Dollar Tree
and Family Dollar. We owe it to our residents to have a
stander.
That is a here too because I can tell you about Resident
who came into my constituent night, which I'm missing right
now to be here because they're afraid to report outdated
food and beverages because they are they don't want the
store to close and that was the clearest communication that
I got at a location. That's ironically a cross the street
from my where I live.
Will be closing.
And you know, what's going to happen all the men were
closing because of the robberies the burglaries all these
things that they have not put in solutions for or try to be
a partner with my office the saw.
And so the Dollar Tree Family Dollar to Dollar General do
better.
You better you have resources to be better and some
fortunate that we as a council have to be a bit
heavy-handed to bring you to that point to get you to the
table. This was not need it for today.
Yeah, if this is the only way to have constructive
conversations that produce the outcomes that we are looking
for then that's his body acting in the best interest of the
residence. But thank you again. I appreciate you in the
19th Ward and how you are going to make Chicago businesses.
Just be better.
Thank you, Autumn and Lawson.
Thank you madam chair and thank you to everyone who
presented all the women Taylor guess how many I have in my
ward. You don't even have to cuz it's zero right to prove
your point and it's narrow and so I'm here to listen and
understand the problems around the city. I will say that I
think my colleagues have pointed out the importance of
being a good businesses neighbor is on display here. And
that's something that I think is true of every business of
every size and every neighborhood I signed on to this
originally because I thought there may be some applications
to stores in my ward that are great neighbors that I have
the trash out that don't clean up their Parkway is that
don't plant anything that I can.
You know, I have cracks cracked sidewalks back parking lot
and I think this all them in the politano sword inside
vacancies. I think this is a real issue that we're seeing
across the city on maintenance on being a good neighbor.
Some of that's covid right where we know retail cost of
going up labor costs have gone up supplies have gone up. So
they've had to cut the bottom line and they've cut it so
far that we're having what sounds like very unsafe
situations in a lot of the city. I had a question for the
the presenter of Miss Miss Kennedy Smith about the scanner
error and overcharging and those lawsuits and if any of
those lawsuits had been in Illinois or any other state
nearby and when what those were the outcomes look like
short the the lawsuits have been brought by the Attorneys
General in Missouri, Ohio and New Jersey so far. There are
other there's a big National class action lawsuit that is
under way right now this Gathering Stephen that's out of
California, but we'll deal with dollar stores across the
country. The scanner errors are severe their different
pockets of research on this Ohio has been considerable
research the Attorney General's office. They're both under
the former Administration in the current administration of
research by going into stores. And do you know random
checks of merchandise doing a couple hundred items scans as
I said,
2% is considered a natural and impermissible percent of
scanner errors, but they're finding it is way way more than
that. I'm averaging around 20% and I'm going as high as 88%
in some cases, Ohio has just reached a settlement with
Dollar General on scanner errors. It's using its money now
that the other got from that settlement to provide food for
food banks around the state and Missouri is looking at
doing something similar with a with these proceeds from
settlements to find healthy food store development in
underserved communities across the across the state. I
think we're going to be seeing many more of these lawsuits
coming up in the next year or so because this has gotten a
lot of traction in the Press has been publicized nationally
and combined with other sorts of things like the big rodent
infestation at the Family Dollar Distribution Center in
Arkansas a couple of years ago his real
brought the Public's attention to the fact that these
stories aren't just abandon value for communities with
directly dangerous to the residence.
Great great. Thank you very much. And I guess I'll just
close you know, I think we talked about food deserts a lot
in this chamber and over the last 10-12 years, certainly
what it means to get quality food in I think we need to
continue that conversation and look at how how encompassing
that is. I had no idea the impact of dollar stores on
Cat food retailers different things but obviously I know
that you know, those impacts are a lot greater, but I'm all
of those things that contributed food deserts or something
that we need to be looking at here so I can thank you and
I'm going to add Alderman sposato to the roll call next
we're going to ask Alderman's far as followed by Alderman
Harris pod by Alderman Curtis.
Thank you. I'll Dermot O'Shea for presenting this ordinance
and for bringing the two witnesses that we have here today.
Was anybody from the Dollar Tree invited to present?
provide
I've had several phone calls emails meetings with Dollar
Tree over the past four months before that. I got no
response for the better part of four years.
Well, I had signed onto your ordinance months ago and I
remove my name after I met with Dollar Tree and they had
reached out to my office to meet and we had discussed the
issues in my ward. So for the record, I was a co-sponsor,
but now I am not and this this panel very one-sided. We see
that repeatedly here in the city council with arbitration
and so to the witness from Oklahoma.
The name of that grocery store again, please brush Market
Oasis Oasis Fresh Market, and that was the first time that
they built in your state that the first grocery store ever
in your state sweet. We built that store. We recruited
someone to operate it who had grossing experience who lived
in the community and they are now the owner of the grocery
store and have there been built more since that time. No,
I'm working on my second. Now. What year was that? First
one built? What year the first opened in 2021 and you
mentioned that it received HUD funding did it receive that
sparked? Yes, how much money did one point five million 1.5
play Bobby Loan Fund that comes through hood and total
money for the grocery store was about 3.5. So it was a cdfi
Tulsa Economic Development Corporation who does specialized
lending to small businesses mainly for people
Who can't go in a traditional to get loans from White
institutions to the sponsor and I and philanthropic? I'm
sorry. That was some Phillips rapid donations as well into
the sponsor. I wholeheartedly agree with your customer
service to components to this ordinance. There's one the
customer service requirement what I agree a hundred
percent, but not the distance. Can you help me understand?
What other businesses are restricted by feet and why was
one mile chosen for this type of business?
I think one mile in the language of the ordinance. Can you
help me? Thank you for the question all Duramax part of the
shepody commissioner of licenses it be ACP. So there are a
number of other business types that have a distance
restriction apply to them one of which is tobacco and other
which is broadly personal services in the zoning ordinance.
Answer your question about 1 mile. It's trying to strike a
balance between the distance restriction. I might be more
than a mile as some of pointed out in this room and and
something he'll be less based on the current distribution
of stores noting also Alderman O'Shea's point that this
does not impact existing sources up a distance restriction
for new locations. Are we putting more restrictions on a
new locations than for vaping and tobacco?
It depends on how you would analyze it it it's a mile
restriction for any new location to any store owned by the
same entity, which is a very very focused restriction on
it's not by story is not by type. It's not about you know,
it's it's by the entity that owns the store. It's a very
focused restriction. What is that feat for Vaping in
tobacco? Just curiosity. What is it?
I believe it's 1,000 1,000 feet and we're putting new
restrictions on Dollar Tree for 1 mile for the record of
anybody's on board. Our country's legislation Mi for
tobacco.
My other question here is I know this ordinance focuses on
so-called dollar stores, but wouldn't non-pharmacy
convenience or so-called corner stores also fall under the
category of small box stores as defined by the ordinance
that were looking at right now and that's part of his
Deputy Commissioner. It would not have if you look at the
definition is very nearly crafted focusing on stores that
advertise or sell and Gordy their products under $5 under
some common uses a list of their including dollar stores
and discount stores, and then there's also
Are the square footage of a scoping that again Targets this
very very specifically so I didn't answer your question did
it is targeted.
Do most of our business restrictions are based on type of
business this focuses specifically on who owns the business
what other businesses name you mentioned it earlier are
restricted this way and why was this chosen here as the
metric?
That's about it, except for the commissioner D. The
distance that the answer your question about the type of
store the ordinance Define small box retailer. So it is a
definition based on square footage sale price and the
absence of other activities, so it does reflect.
A common strategy to defining a business type given to bring
these businesses Under the Umbrella of those covered under
special use permits. And if so, why was that approached
abandoned?
The way that this approach is it is based on the
definition. So the it's a mile restriction around the type
of business defined by these variables again, trying to
strike a balance between what's restricted and what's not
I know my colleague from the 17th Ward brought up if this
is a zoning Amendment, but it sounds to me that this would
be more covered under a special-use permit. Just like we
regulate nail salons and barber shops. Could we do that
with this?
And leave it up to the alderman of the ward like automatic
perogative.
I think the the appetite here was for a general restriction
based on a very carefully scope definition again square
footage the price of sale items and the absence of
particular business activities.
There was a common there was public comment by the Illinois
Hispanic chamber of convers opposing this ordinance, Adrian
Rodriguez mention that this approach will the support
smoothly impact neighborhoods of color which have faith
disinvestment for decades considering food deserts and
where big box stores have closed and large tracts of vacant
building stand. My question here is how does this ordinance
which will cover the whole city?
Not make the promise not make the problem of disinvestment
in communities of colors worse and not restrict access to
food and Essentials like diapers baby formula and soap and
can goods.
Backside of a Deputy Commissioner, it only impacts new
stores coming into the city based on that restriction. So
the current portfolio of stores that are are currently in
existence and operating are not impacted. It's only its
scope specifically for new stores.
Well, thank you to my questions. I I do want I just do want
to say this.
You know, I do have some concerns about how this ordinance
is drafted because it seems to be focused on targeting
individual owners and attempting to restrict businesses not
based on what services they provide but specifically who
owns it now.
Martinez was an issue for me. And I know cleaning this has
been raised as a concern for many aldermen regarding dollar
stores, but it's my understanding that many of the stores
have invested in correcting the issue. I met with them they
reached out and we spoke about it. But this seems like an
overreach to to catfish a wide net for the whole entire
city of Chicago, especially noting that these type of
stores are more relied upon in some parts of the city than
others. So if cleanliness is the issue and if we want to
encourage businesses to be better neighbors, I would argue
the withholding of City approval for expanding such
businesses if the owner has outstanding cleanliness
citations or moratorium on their expanding if they have
surpassed the threshold in lines for violations,
Personally, I think this one is has good intentions, but
it's drafted in such a way that targets people and doesn't
really encourage any better practices on behalf of the
business. If the sponsor Alderman O'Shea would be willing
to hold this measure and work on a more collaborative
solution that includes business owners and incentivizes
better Behavior instead of restricting specific owners. I
think we could all get behind that before that I can't be
on board with this measure. It is currently written and
drafted. Thank you for your time. Thank you. Thank you and
I think Alderman O'Shea wanted to respond. Yes, when a
clarification on two of the questions the common ownership
was done at the request of the Illinois retail Merchants
Association who is representing Dollar Tree they ask for
that.
I didn't ask for that. I didn't ask for that Irma asked for
that confession, which was granted to them. And I'd also
like to point out that cleanliness is only one of the two
issues. We're also talking again about food deserts.
And for that I'm not willing to hold this ordinance.
But it also like to point out. It's been evident based on
different Olive and speaking here today.
little black aldermen have never been contacted by Dollar
Tree
They've had four months to reach out to 50 members of this
body 47 of them signed out of this ordinance.
If this was such an important problem that they wanted to
correct after years of neglect.
In four months this Fortune 200 company one of the
wealthiest corporations in America.
Going to reach out to all 50 aldermen about this problem.
Thank you.
Alderman Harris
Thank you. Madam. Chairman my journey with Dollar Tree and
Family Dollar goes back almost to the beginning of alderman
Mitchell's career.
Is he still in the space? It has told he started the fight
and we got in a fight together about Dollar Tree and
cleanliness and stocking of the store. Then I'm going to
all of that.
My meeting was successful with Dollar General the corporate
America came take me to my stores took me around made a
commitment. And for the last six to eight years has kept
their commitment.
Family Dollar is one of my filthiest doors and award.
I can't write enough tickets.
Dollar Tree, which is right next to my office. There's one
storefront in between us.
Filthy, but what I got was a visit to my office while I'm
downtown at at at committee meetings from somebody from
corporate and said, hey we stop by you want to do a
walk-through? Really Corporate America. This is what we
going to do. We going to just do us stop by somebody's
office come in and say hey, I'm here who knew you were
coming.
If the constituents can find us if the other people that
live in the city can find us if other people can bombard my
email with 4,000 emails.
Dollar Tree and Family Dollar can find it.
And they don't need a flashlight in the daylight to get to
me.
One they have problems. They had don't have enough Staffing
in their stores.
This took me on a journey to visit other store than other
communities and I will say how disappointed I am and how
the stock looks in communities that look like me and how
the stock looks and communities and the stocking of shells
looks like an other communities.
It bothers me that if you don't have enough staff, you
don't have time to lift them up pick up a piece of paper.
Play No Parking Lot stock the shelves because you simply
cannot run a store that large with two employees.
So I am in full support of this. And so I have a I have
several stores 8721 Stony 79th and Kimbark 72nd and Stony
Island 85th and Cottage.
I have a Dollar General 89th and Stony and they opened up
one at 83rd and Stony Island. Give me a break.
Give me a break is this why open up a hundred billion store
dollar stores in communities of color or what reason?
To say that we're a food desert.
I've got grocery stores at each end of my ward.
That are accessible to the community.
I will say that could we use more you can always have
another grocery store in a community, but I don't see
Family Dollar as my grocery store option.
I see them as what they are that they are dollar store and
they provide a valuable so hot up to the person who wants
to be there. Having said that I'm saturated.
Where's saturated?
And you haven't shown me that you can take care of what you
already have and you're opening up more.
Dog will get stopped our stores. So apart service filthy
outlets and no matter how many tickets my superintendent
right? I guess they just happy to pay him. Maybe it's
cheaper to pay the tickets. Then actually do something
about the issues that your stores are created within our
communities of color. Am I happy with them? Absolutely not.
And so we I think that we deserve more our communities
deserve better and I'm fine what business is at 1 any
business that wants to come to the eighth warship still
welcome to be there. But I feel you also have to be welcome
to do your part.
To mix so that I don't have to walk a across the trash or
how about I got to walk past the homeless man standing
right at your door every day.
And so there has to be some accountability built in the
system for people who don't understand the communities that
they're in.
We are middle-class rooftop communities. I'm a single
family community and don't get me wrong. I got a lot of
constituents that like the Dollar Trees in the dollar
stores, but they're willing to get in the car and drive to
a different location so that they don't have to deal with
the issues in their very own Community. Now, what kind of
sense does that make?
Do corporate should listen to us as African American
communities when we say we had enough we're tired.
They should hear as loud and clear that whatever the model
is. It is not working and communities of color across the
city of Chicago. So today I want to thank my colleague Matt
O'Shea, but doing something or creating a buzz for creating
a dialogue so
That somebody is from their corporate shop should be
listening as African-Americans talk about what's happening
in their community and that someone should find us. My name
is Michelle Harris. I'm at 8 War 8539 Cottage Grove. 77387
43 300 come find me cuz I'm looking for you.
Thank you all doing Curtis.
I couldn't wait to get a Dollar Tree. I used to visit
suburbs all the time. I saw Dollar Trees. I have a huge
constituency. And I knew that Dollar Tree was right for me
and this going back about 67 years ago. I spoke with the
vice president of the company at the time Bruce Walters
when they came in.
And they set up shop. It was my first Dollar Tree I have
about for now used to have the Family Dollar's. I send all
them boys Ward and this before they merged.
Dollar Tree has become the worst.
The worst neighbor that I have it in my community if we
could.
If we could get through the chair how many citations that
they actually been written. I've gotten to the point. I
thought I do with the star Mack the mack Tracy. This is
ridiculous. I remember when they wanted to move up at 111th
and Pulaski. Is it or that store that was got to be about
four years ago. I gave almost a vice-president number and
he's been in my ward three times from out of state.
He came to visit they still do the exact same thing. They
don't clean the parking lot. And that's all they tell me.
What the outside looks like is what the inside is going to
look like that the outside looks bad. The inside of the
house is going to look bad and that's how it looks. I'm
fully support this ordinance. I have not had an issue at
all out of dollar out of Family Dollar Dollar General. I'm
sorry Dollar General have not had an issue. But my Family
Dollars have a huge issue with those also doing an
investigation a couple years back. There's also I think
I'll ordinance or agreement that when the Walgreens close
and none of us want to see an empty space by because he
doesn't bring the value down and in the neighborhood.
So there was an agreement also that I understand and we can
find out about that. If you could share an agreement
between Walgreens and Family Dollar when they when
Walgreens leave the community the Dollar Tree walks right
in.
so if we can get that through the child, so
hopefully before Wednesday and and that's all I got to say.
They have not been good neighbors. Thank you Madame
Channel. Thank you. We're going to go to Auburn baskets and
then all the women Coleman.
Thank you. Madam chair. I'll try not to share my Dollar
Store dollar store story. I know Five Below is making sure
they're not next. I just wanted to ask a couple questions
cuz I think one getting a placard makes absolute sense. I
want to thank our membership for this work because I think
it's clear whether however you land on this issue that that
work would not have been done. They would not be a liaison.
None of that would have occurred were it not for the
introduction of this ordinance and actually moving to
legislative efforts. I want to thank you for that as it
pertains to the second part of the ordinance is the
distance in between the dollar stores. I've got a couple
dollar stores in our Ward. I think it would be helpful for
me and members of the council in advance of like a larger
vote post. This committee would be a map of all the dollar
stores in the city of Chicago to know exactly where they're
all at in relation to each other Citywide. So I think we
have an understanding of the preponderance of dollar stores
in certain parts of town and not in others and if it's
possible.
How to put overlay where the grocery start stores are in
relation to that because I think it's a very serious
concern that our colleague raises up that because of the
preponderance of these dollar store is I keep draining away
from the opportunity of other businesses to set up shop and
be pretty easy to see on the map if that were the case.
There are some of us on certain parts of town that don't
have that understanding because you got dollar stores and
you got grocery stores is a bit of everything but I think
if you leave one map over the other it might be very clear
to members here as to whether there is a very real problem
needs to be addressed. And so
I'll see this where I stand on it at this moment.
It isn't support not because I know exactly how it lays out
Citywide but it's been very clear to me that we're not for
ottoman O'Shea's work in moving it Forward. None of this
would have changed and I think that's enough for me to
being support. So that's all you thank you. So do the chair
if we can get that kind of map or an Excel sheet through
bacp of like all the different dollar stores. That would be
helpful something to see what would happen. If the dollar
stores were to create llc's that come up with different
owners and would it be a way around which required in the
ordinance?
And I passed out over to thanks for the question Alderman
next part of its Deputy Commissioner bacp the warden's
refers to controlling person. So we would check on the
front time does as we do with every license application who
are those controlling persons and match up controlling
person to controlling person. So in answer your question,
it it it it depends how that exactly falls falls out. Would
that be also the case that they went like franchise model,
right? Exactly. Yeah. So is a franchise model the
controlling person we would do the same check the
controlling person might or might not be the same between
some of those franchises sew-in in that world. Let's say
you got $2 stores a block away from each other, but it's
different franchisee owners would they they wouldn't run
afoul of it's written here because technically they're
different controlling owners of how it would play out.
That's cracked. Okay, just something
Thank you very much.
AutoZone in Cullman
Sherman O'Shea, I will say the Silver Lining is this the
only positive thing I can say about Dollar Tree and Family
Dollar is that I got a chance to connect with Linnaeus
Aria.
They still here who has been a delight to work with and had
it not been for you to terminal shade. None of us in the
Black Hawk is would have had any contact with this Fortune
200 company to our store war council member Paul. I heard
you say there is a 9-year life expectancy cap, cuz it's 9
or 12. It was it was 14 now its 12. Okay. Well in Inglewood
to streeterville, there's a 30-year life expectancy Gap and
I think I had PTSD when I heard just a Save-A-Lot. That's
like a bad word to me considering my trauma with that
particular grocer and yellow banana because we are not only
oversaturated out of the 150 locations 80% are in the black
communities and it's safe to say that about the other
percentages in our Brown brothers and sisters communities,
but we are oversaturated with discount.
Grocery stores when there is an Aldi on one corner and a
Save-A-Lot on the other corner and then less than eight
blocks later on the same street. There's another Save-A-Lot
and then another Save-A-Lot just east of us. So it's just a
mess in Chicago to say the least when it comes to
investment and food desert addressing food deserts.
Like Alderman mostly going to the Dollar Store was a treat.
It was a delight growing up. But in my case for the three
stores getting into the dollar stores is like hell
literally the cleanliness the safety you have to get past
that in order to even appreciate the experience and it just
is not fair and I appreciate everything that Lenny and
Olivia has done with addressing the challenges. I know that
and collaboration and partnership that our stores will
hopefully improve but quite frankly we need to put in to
the paper and hold the store accountable especially for the
poor Behavior the bad havers the the poor business
tendencies in our communities. I should not have to go to
all the way to Burr Ridge.
Or to the suburbs just to have a good experience getting
into the store their standard should be all across Chicago.
It should be all across the states just because you're in
the suburbs versus Englewood or even in Chatham where
middle-class African-Americans are it should be the same
experience all throughout so I want again. Thank you old
man O'Shea. Thank you for coming all the way store or to
give us and I look forward to
Having more conversations with you. And what would you
compare the Oasis to like a grocery store?
It's really hard to say it is a new model. Okay, because it
is the smaller concept more going back to that neighborhood
market as opposed to the large ride with everything changes
right build large is the knell items to be in and they went
out and ate them came back. Right? So same with the grocery
store divorcing industry. They went to these big large
store models now they're closing cuz the overhead is so
hard that they can't survive. And so now we're going back
to the small Neighborhood Market concept and so I would say
if I had to compare it to something even though these are
even smell a little smaller. I would say maybe a
neighborhood Walmart store Oakland neighborhood. Not the
Super that neighborhood market style. So it has everything
you would need in a grocery store instead of if you went
into a Walmart. They may have five or six brands well in
our store. There's three Grands there is no name brand.
There's a middle range and then there's the generic what
does always save or whatever?
Generic brand areas. And so that's that's that's how that's
the the concept that we have employed at at our table to
use me Lord and I want to say but that's why I save a lot I
had started with a better stores and none. None. None in
even Save-A-Lot eventually said no and so that's why I said
we just have to start our own truly neighborhood store find
someone that lives here in this community to actually own
it. So we don't have to deal with with corporations. Cuz
when you start dealing with corporations that's going to be
a problem, but I have one person I call if I have a problem
actually texting me on my phone when I have a problem. He
said you got to get this fixed and get it fixed now and it
is right because we have that one-on-one Connection in in
the community and it's just hard to do that if you're
talkin about any type of franchise or even a chain store.
It so if I had to compare it, I would say make more so of a
smaller version of the neighborhood Walmart, what's the
square footage of the store 16,000 square feet? That's the
size of my former was the Whole Foods do that's a very nice
right sides that like Neighborhood Grocery Store. I am
definitely looking forward to and Beyond I'm happy to say
it's black owned and if we make a commitment to to the
hiring the youth in our community, they literally can walk
to work.
On behalf of the Chicago automatic Blackhawk as we will be
in contact with you sooner rather than later.
Thank you. Thank you for this dialogue and everybody today.
You had already asked the question Alderman Moore.
I'll let you have one question because you've already had a
point of information and you've already asked a question
and it's getting late in the day. So pick one question and
then we're going to close out this but let me first make a
clear statement and it has always been a respectable to
Mandy has one and been fair and then I'll fairness when
this was brought us. We are all on the same page still is
on the same page cuz that's what everybody talked about the
cleanliness the problems and everything else and nobody
here has wavered from that nobody especially me. And when I
talk to people we talk to people to get more information,
especially after the something has changed from our
conversation and that was the one mile radius and that's
saying so we can understand that impact of the community is
not too I do anything and I have to do to get them straight
beat.
I'm the one that go to those stores get those managers move
boxes and all of that stuff. And so I want them to do that
work and do their jobs and and I'm not going to I'm not
going to waiver on that. And so the first part of this
ordinance we're going to stick to when we talked about
every Everybody talkin about we just got to be a
conversation about whether it's Save-A-Lot or dollar
whoever and bringing groceries. So that's the freaking
biggest lie ever told. It's the same reason why Red Lobster
won't even still come to our community. Okay, and so we can
get rid of all of them and then still Pizza. Nobody is
coming to our community we must and we have to have yes our
own stores and that's what you got. I got that part, but
that's why we got another request and I'll need to talk to
nobody else. We got a fresh market we got to do whatever we
have to do to help her build more stores here. And so
that's not the issue. I put it one of your moratorium on
them until they get their act together.
I cannot in good conscience on that second part the second
part which wasn't brought until I got the ordinance what
maybe a week or week and a half ago on that part to digest
that to say what is the impact of our community? Because if
they do pull out if they do pull out if something happens
that we can expand we just going to pull out we're going to
shut up shut down. Nobody is going to open the grocery
store in our community a part that I have an issue with I
want to stand with you on what we talk.
What about chaman the messiness to get them to clean it up
and all that? I don't waver on that. I stand with you on
that. But that second part I can and I wish we could
separate that out so I can vote on his awesomeness to hold
them accountable. Thank you.
Terminal say would you like to close?
Make a German. I just like to to close and and thank
Kennedy Smith.
overtime knowledge experience
councilman
Thank you so much for flying in from Tulsa. I hope that
some of my colleagues.
Reach out to I know you've got business cards there because
I think you could be helpful offering Good Counsel to some
of my colleagues here just a couple points of information
as it pertains to the new ordinance. This ordinance is not
impact the 150 existing dollar stores.
Are any dollar stores moving forward if they were to add a
fresh food component?
They wouldn't have this restriction and what I've heard
from everybody everybody in this room, particularly my
colleagues.
color is we need fresh food options, and I think
collectively
we need to work harder on that.
I'd also like to point out the original ordinance had a
2-mile restriction. So we we did we did work on that. I
respectfully.
Respectfully ask for everybody's consideration. This is a
real problem. We've heard it over and over today and
communities all across our city.
Let's hold these dollar stores accountable and let's work
with them moving forward.
But I would say I've heard more progress from Dollar Stores
since I've been in this room the last 3 hours then I did
the last 4 months.
Thank you, German.
I agree with you all Turman and thank you for bringing this
to this committee. Can I get a motion to pass all the woman
Coleman all in favor. Say aye any opposed.
We have autumn in Vegas and Alderman Cardona as knows.
and more
Okay, in the opinion of the chairs the eyes have it. The
motion is passed. Congratulations. I will report this vote
as a recommendation to pass at the next city council on
January 24th, 2024 and we're not done yet. There is one
more thing, but hopefully this will be quick. It's 02 02
3-0 004 to 30 and ordinance to amend the municipal code of
Chicago regarding ground transportation Vehicles. This is
sponsored by Alderman Riley and I need to refer to the
committee on finance. That's ottoman wax back. So moves all
in favor say aye and he opposed the ordinance will be
referred to the committee on finance. This concludes the
agenda of the committee unlicensed there being no further
business for the committee.
Vice-chair chica motion to adjourn on favor comitia, so
adjourned hearing no objections. Have a good evening. Thank
you all so much.