Hey Bennett, That's Alright. Good morning, everybody the
committee on Environmental Protection and energy is going
to come to order momentarily. We are getting people in the
room. I'm alderwoman Maria had and I want to thank
everybody for being here this morning due to our very busy
meeting schedule a budget and everything. I'm sorry that we
are not in a bigger space. We have freed up a few chairs
for more members of the public and please know that this is
also live streamed on our Chicago city clerk on Valencia's
website City clerk.com. So I think
Right. I think the committee can now come to order.
Alright. So today we've got three items before the committee
and organs to terminate the carnotite moratorium area and
ordinance requiring private scavengers to maintain records
of GPS location and turn it over to Streets & Sanitation
upon request and a subject matter hearing regarding Peoples
Gas rate increase request before the Illinois Commerce
Commission first, we'll begin with a roll call to establish
florim. We hadn't present vice-chair Timothy Knutson, Julio
Ramirez Alderman Raymond Lopez alderwoman, Savannah Tavares
alderwoman Monique Scott.
alderman
Alderman Byron, sigcho Lopez alderwoman Ruth Cruz Rodriguez
Sanchez Alderman. Will Conway Autumn and Brandon Riley
Alderman Bennett Lawson. Alderwoman, Angela clay all during
that Martin alderwoman. Let him and I'll hop in were right
seeing as we have a quorum.
actual
Actually, no.
next
Actually, we're one short.
This is all the woman Spruce. I'm pressing remote gas all
the time and cruise. We know you're with us on Zoom. We
have one more member to get before we can accept a motion
to allow you to participate. So give us one moment while we
race across the hall to grab another person.
Bill Connelly
I can.
I think he's at that has lost. All right, the committee is
going to stand at recess for five minutes.
Play Simon.
5 minutes
can
Continue I will do roll call again.
I'm
I am presently ahead and share if I share Timothy Knudsen.
All right, I'll remind Daniel Espada present all the rental
Conway brother-in-law send all them that Martin was present
ottoman with a bun on top and work. All right, and we got
all the woman Monique Scott.
All right. Fantastic. There are eight members present. We
have a quorum joining us virtually as alderwoman Cruz
purple 59. Can I have a motion to approve all their Crews
remote Christmas is you all moved out right away. So moves
all those in favor. Say aye.
Fantastic any opinion of the chair the ice have it and
alderwoman Crews will be marked as present for today's
meeting. Are there any non members present that would like
to be recognized for Cora? Fantastic alderwoman to Bar s is
present. Good morning.
All right. This time will be getting the public comment
period public comment is limited to 30 minutes out of
respect for everybody's time.
Adverse effect of everybody's time each teacher is limited
to three minutes. So we're going to get started. Our first
public comments her is mr. George, Blakemore.
Miss
Mr. George Blakemore that we got the microphone right there
for public comment.
Yes, I'm going to young lady you sign me up for every one
of those not only Pisgah item, but every item I'm here.
and
And I've been talkin loud. Somebody myself been
disrespectful.
the
These items you have four items and you have every right to
speak on all four items. I'm highly angry, angry to see
that you the chairman that this nonsense go on you knew
exactly that this other meeting was being held.
at
At the same time and you know you have member on the
committee also.
never let
Never let that happen again.
you
You have been inconvenient you have been disrespected.
By your elected officials evidently. You don't know if you
did you would do that.
Is wrong here. Something is evil here. Something is corrupt
hear the most corrupt city in the United States of America
Houston. How what's the city of Chicago?
What about the people that live in this city may be up to
go again?
I signed up item number one, whatever's on the item and
then I remember to
Then I remember three and then I don't know what more you
out of control.
Ultimate control you are here to serve us.
didn't
We're not here to serve you. So again young lady. You got
four items. I'm going to speak on every item and if I get
off this is the city of Chicago and we all are corrupt.
Thank you. Mr. Blakemore right next up. We have earnest
lukasik lukasik.
Thank you.
Good morning to the honorable and committee members. My
name is Ernie the Cossack high in the housing organizer at
Northwest Center. We are not certified nonprofit and we are
located in belmont-cragin.
waffle
Who offers Services resources for the community one of them
energy assistant program?
and when
And when the program was doing this last month, I have to
say that we had already met our appointment quota in 3
days.
And we just offer one day a week walk-ins don't come for
sure. And when that happens when we open at 9, they are
there around the block by 7:30.
and
And we made our quota usually by 11 and we have to stop.
Now when I'm saying it as soon as you need for this
assistance.
Cheshire community in 2022 Peoples Gas proper was 209
million dollars.
in two
In 2021 or 2005 because I'm trying to provide is jumping
when you need it.
Appreciate the resources that Nightcore Peoples Gas gives
us.
and how
and ask her when she'll like
NASCAR
flashlight throws up again
set alarm.
I just want to remind you want to hope that you consider.
But people I guess I comes up when winter comes.
we have to
We have to decide is how much. They can put on the table?
set a
consideration
Thank you so much.
are
Our next speaker is May on Tom.
Good.
Good morning members of the city council in my fellow
chicagoan. I like to thank the committee on Environmental
Protection and energy for holding this hearing Chicagoans
are counting on you with every dollar and the bank
accounts. And I know you will not disappoint them. I'm here
today to represent legal action Chicago and our
constituents who live in the 300% of the federal poverty
guidelines. I will not repeat again the hundreds of
millions of dollars in profit that Peoples Gas pocket.
every
Every year on the back of hardworking Chicagoans, but I will
tell you about the low-income discount rate or lidr that
legal action and Community organizing family issues
proposed to reduce utility bills to 3% of the monthly
income which state law identify as the highest acceptable
energy burden for the household lidr proposes five tiers of
income that correspond with a flat discount rate that would
apply to the entire Bill and opposed to only the customer
charge as proposed by Peoples Gas. For example, if folks
gas bill is $100 and they found a tier-1 which is 0 to 50%
of federal poverty guideline. They would receive a 83%
discount at the remaining balance of the bill would be $17.
this put
This proposal creates a structure for utility bills to be
meaningfully affordable and lower to disconnection rates,
which will significantly improve the physical and mental
Wellness of Chicago as the cold harsh Winter Dance On Us in
Chicago many families allowed to choose between putting
food on the table and keeping the children warm.
why do
Why do parents have to make that decision?
Why do parents have to make that decision and why do
children have to struggle because of corporate greed is
that what it takes to live in Illinois the rate increase
normally affect families, but also individuals who live on
fix or inconsistent income Uber and Lyft drivers restaurant
workers retail workers are having to work longer hours to
be able to take a hot shower warm to leftovers and have dry
clothes the rate increase will further Drive families into
a financially and secure Zone and contribute to the cycle
of poverty. Therefore. I strongly urge members of the city
council and my fellow chicagoan to demand that the Illinois
Commerce Commission reject people's gas unfair rate hike
and to adopt a low-income discount rate that will Ashley
mitigate the desk connections between rising cost of living
and the quality of life.
Thank you so much for your comment next up. We have a Dell
Sims.
You don't.
You don't normally normally this is a very warm room,
right?
mute a
you take
You take your time.
Thank you.
Good morning. Good morning chairperson Hatton the morning
and members of the committee. Thank you for the
opportunity.
To speak today on such an important issue that personally
affects me and my community.
My name is Adele.
I am living in a senior building and I am also a People Gas
customer.
but I
But I'm here today and support our alderperson Conway's
resolution and of the city council can indicating its
concern but the people gas rate hike to the Illinois
Commerce Commission.
That ass burned in our homes is mostly nothing and
extremely potent greenhouse gas gas. I insist causes air
pollution and can cause gas to escape
most of the time you can't see gas nor can you smell it?
don't
Sometimes I wonder if I am causing myself a death.
This summer. We had a double whammy the wildfires that
emitted a lot of black smoke which lasted a couple of weeks
and also the indoor pollution we breathe every day.
What?
One of the things we need to do is to push for carbon-free
buildings instead of having people paying for gas in
factual. We need to invest in letter fication.
Waite High
Wade height does not make sense to accomplish our climate
goals and for City, but I do say this much. Thank you for
your time. I asked the committee to adopt the resolution
and communicate with the ICC that they do need to lower the
rate hike and rain in Peoples Gas excessive spending. Thank
you. Thank you so much for your phone back.
neck
Next up we have Richard Richmond.
Thank you.
Thank you for having me during the Roman Empire the
nobility like the comfort of having water fresh water
brought into their homes.
I'm
Unbeknownst to them they were using lead pipes. So the
resulting mental incompetence of their children and they're
actually inability to have children reduce fertility
resulted in the demise of that Empire. Similarly a hundred
years ago. We are told that natural gas was clean and we've
been hearing that all along. However,
Cole and would actually give off less.
Gatsby look dirty because they give us it and and and
actually methane which is what natural gas is 80 times more
potent than just regular carbon dioxide on the long and the
short sermon on the long term it thirty times more more
potent. Our climate depends on really a very delicate
balance only .0 3% That's one third of 1% microphone a
little closer one only like one third of 1% of our
atmosphere is carbon dioxide, so it doesn't take that much
too.
ArcLight
Changed our climate.
so
So what we're doing today in the last hundred and fifty
years ever since call has been extracted is really changed
our climate and we have the Tipping Point is coming soon
scientists are wondering if they didn't think this was
going to happen as quick as it is. We need to move fast.
Third act Illinois is it is part of people my age that have
decided we have to not let young people younger people
carry the big load of dealing with his climate emergency.
We see migrants coming migrants are coming partly because
climate is changing their economies and collapsing their
economies and the political unrest that happens with that
it so this is going to continue to happen unless we tackle
this climate emergency. And so what I'm asking this
committee and I thank you for for having this hearing is to
please back the commission's Illinois Commerce Commission.
We need to stop this is an obsolete technology my personal
home. We've proven it.
100 year old building a 4 flat. I'm putting the last heat
pump in and we will be gas free. We've got a heat pump
water heater what we got solar panels on the roof pump
water heater. We got heat pump dryers and an induction
stove and we won't need gas and we need the government to
help do this across the board to every home in Chicago 70%
of the carpeting that we give off in Chicago is coming from
buildings. We need to stop that if we're going to be
responsible for our future Generations. So let's not repeat
what the Romans did except this time. It's the whole world
the Western culture that needs to change.
Thanks.
Thank you so much for your comments.
are
Our next speaker is Donna Carpenter.
Tell me.
Good morning, everyone, giving honor to my Lord and Savior.
Thank you for allowing me to be here.
Hello, my name is Donna Carpenter. I live in the Inglewood
Community. I am a cold. I'm the co-president of power pack
of Illinois and I'm the chair of stepping out of property
campaign. I want to thank the committee for allow me to
share today. I am a People Gas customer and I have been for
a long time. The reason I want to share my testimony today
it because it is so important for you to hear how increase
people gas rate with affect me and my family it will put me
in a hole where I want be able.
Play my already on the portable gas bill. So on behalf of
my family my community and all the power pack, Illinois
parent leaders. I'm asking you to request the Illinois
Commerce Commission the say no to this proposal people gas
rate hike people are struggling as it is and we simply
can't afford it. Also. I am a living witness. I have
experience being without gas without heat once upon a time.
I had my mom staying with me being elderly. She was always
cold all the time. I had the key find a ways to keep warm.
Unfortunately my mom passed away.
she
She passed away in April.
but
But now I'm a full-time caregiver to my family members with
disability. I am still facing the same difficult decision
between food he and medication for my elderly brother and
my disabled son family shouldn't have to face deciding
between these things. All of these are assessed
Necessities. We also asked the committee today to urge the
ICC to implement a strong disconnection rate that will
provide provide a discount to low-income families on the
whole bill not just to fix the
do they
So that families can receive an impact discount. We deserve
to receive the support that we need, and this would really
help me and my community. So thank you so much for your
time today. Thank you for your comments.
the
be
Be there being no more speakers. The public comment period
is concluded thank you to all of our speakers today. I
would like to know that the committee received two written
public comments and those written public comments have been
sent to committee members via email.
are
our first order of business is the rule 45 report from
September 6th 2023, which was sent out to the committee may
have a motion to approve the rule 45 or poor Alderman
Martin's so move all those in favor of passing the
resolution say I
All right, all those opposed say nay the opinion of the
chair. The ice habit. Our next item is a 2020 3000 4939 an
amendment of Municipal Code chapter 11-4 regarding
radiation monitoring to remove the carnotite moratorium
area. This ordinance terminates the carnotite moratorium
Mariah formerly the Michael Reese Hospital site and the
required radiation monitoring during subsurface work. The
carnotite moratorium area was put in place in 2011 after
radiological contamination was identified.
location of the
Location of this carnotite reduction company site located
at the Northern end of the city on Michael recite the asset
information Services completed remediation activities at
the former kind of tight reduction side in April 2023. The
state regulatory agency ieema determined that the elevated
radioactive materials were removed from the area and that
monitoring during excavation is no longer Warrenton
terminating the carnotite moratorium Mariah will reduce the
cost and time for infrastructure projects as well as
development activities the proposed edits to chapter 11.
Score of the municipal code. Delete all Provisions relating
to carnotite leaving the the streeterville or Street
Orrville Street Orrville thorium Provisions given the cost
savings as Redevelopment of the site precedes a is is
requesting passage of the Amendments during today's
committee meeting joining us today to answer any questions
or Kimberly Worthington RAM ramasamy and more games.
start
Department of Law and ethics in information systems. Are
there any questions about this item from committee members?
But you guys aren't like super excited about carnotite.
I've
I'll be
I've been
Having no questions may have a motion to recommend approval
this item by the same rule called out used to establish
Quorum. So moved by vice-chair Knudsen.
All right, all those in favor say aye all those opposed say
nay and if any of the charity ispravit, I will report this
vote as a recommendation to pass at the next city council.
Thank you to our dedicated City servants for coming down
here today and hang out with us, You're welcome for the
remainder of the committee meeting, but also just give you
a minute to step out. Thank you.
Alright second item before the committee today is a
substitute ordinance 2020 3000 a1243 amendment of Municipal
Code titles to 8 and 11 regarding the administration of
private hauling complaints members of the committee were
sent a copy of the substitute language and a chart covering
the changes ahead of today's meeting with also provided
physical copies of the substitute ordinance in the chart to
members today. No major substantive changes were made.
I just met.
Just modifications to realize the intention of the ordinance
my first have a motion to accept the substitute ordinance
into consideration. So moved by Alderman Martin all those
in favor. Say aye all those opposed say nay in your the
chair. The ice have it the substitute morning. It is
accepted without I'd like to turn it over to Alderman
Daniel Espada the lead sponsor of the ordinance to share
information on the scope and purpose of the proposal. Thank
you so much are so the question here is what are we trying
to solve for and how we trying to sell for it something
that I know has an impact in our Ward and I know from
hearing from a lot of you and impact in yours to know what
the law is and willingly and consistently choose to disobey
it people who frequently a pirate scavenger companies who
know that you're not supposed to pick up her unload the
screen 10 p.m. And 7 a.m.
And do it consistently and it's a frustration for our
neighbors who get awakened by these deliveries at 345 6
a.m. In the morning and it's a frustration on the
enforcement side because right now the only folks permitted
to enforce on this are the Chicago Police Department and a
handful of public way Public Health Inspectors challenging
for CPT because as we know they already have their hands
full with a lot of issues in our city and usually when this
gets coded out through
Don't want to get sick.
Don't want to get started as a routine dispatch essentially
the will get to it when we get to it of 911 dispatchers.
And I understand why so how are we working to solve for
this in a couple ways number one by extending citation
powers to our Ward superintendents to other Streets &
Sanitation employees to be able to issue the citations for
this is improper and illegal unloaded. So if I see
something site something policy part of this the other part
is codifying but we know most private haulers already due
to have she is tracking devices on your vehicles so that
they know where they are at any given time the main change
that we're making on top of that is requiring the upon
request by the commissioner of Streets & Sanitation that
data than be turned over.
Them when we have complaints from residents related to
improper unloading during that time. So that that data if
needed can corroborate the complaints that we're receiving
from our neighbors potentially resulting in a citation.
This is what we're trying to accomplish. I think it's great
for our Wards. I think it empowers our staff. I believe
that is going to lead to higher quality of life for all of
our
minimal cost to
Minimal cost to the city and I just want to thank the
committee staff for working with us on this. I want to
thank Ray from The Law Department for working with us to
make sure that what we were drafting accomplishes the aims
of it and is not just a lot of nice words on a piece of
paper, but it will accomplish the purposes that we're
trying to achieve with all that said happy to take
questions and hopeful for your favorable consideration.
in
Thank you Alderman laspada questions or comments for the
ottoman Lawson. Thank you. It's my calling from the first
word. I just had a couple quick questions on the same page
for we talked about the violation. I don't see the amount
of violations and it needs to be somewhere else in the cold
or did he was somewhere else in this ordinance, but I just
want to ask about that.
Do you mean?
Give me the dollar amount of the very top of cage for here.
let's
Listen to no less than 100 not more than 300% for each
offence. And that refers to Graffiti duly noted duly noted.
They do you mind.
Give me a sec. Okay, so you just stated that most of the
companies have this technology in place already, which I
just want to make sure that's the case cuz we have a really
short turnaround on compliance. So that's the question
about fines for compliance. And then the quick turnaround
would be my only concern but if they already have those we
we have an answer to your first question. It is it's in a
different part of the code that's reference. So the
violation penalty except as otherwise provided in this
article 3 and this is an 11-5-1 50 we're looking at no less
than $500 nor more than a thousand for each of fence each
day that a violation continue shall constitute a separate
and distinct offense.
write thank
Write, thank you.
Great. Thank you. I love you. I know my neighborhood. This
is come up so often and it will work with the driver
one-on-one. We know they're in the early because they can
get out early right there's less traffic since it's a
little bit easier, but I think it's something that we
should address. So thank you for those answers and
I've been working.
Thank you. Thank you.
Other questions for Alderman Masada mean, I almost thought
I would just like to say that I really appreciate
substitutions you made this ordinance in terms of granting
our our Ward superintendents the right to talk to be an
enforcement process this so thank you for your work on
this. Thanks for this. This is very good policy. One
question I had is in this can be through the chair if
there's not an immediate answer that's known say there's a
hypothetical situation where the data that is turned over
his incomplete and I know that it talks about, you know,
the testing that this is true and correct under penalty of
perjury, but what if someone provides information that
isn't consistent with say the the observations of
residence. Is there a separate mechanism in the code or
other compliance the
access
Success that ensures that say there's like vehicle tracking
numbers that just, you know correspond to each one of these
private hollers to say here's everyone in their Fleet here
all the license plates so that maybe that can be
cross-referenced to ensure that it is. In fact the case
that there are GPS devices on on every one of their trucks.
pentagon have
And again happy it don't mean to put anybody on the spot
happy to see something for the chair. Good morning. Ray
Phillips more time to have the city of Chicago Department
of Law. So specifically you're wondering if we have a
mechanism cross-referencing with him essentially confirm
that say all of the vehicle information that they're
sharing. So here's GPS is completely the same scope as the
overall number of vehicles that are active cuz what I'm
concerned about is a situation where they might have
vehicles in their Fleet that don't have GPS, but how would
we confirm that if they don't self-report right so we can
subpoena records from them that is a powerful example that
the administrative hearing officers at the department of
administrative hearings has show further investigation
absolutely can be done Beyond just you know, we can ask the
commissioner of Streets & Sanitation under 11 5 to 10 pecan
say
give
Give us your ear.
Give us your ear your data and then if that seems to not
sync up and we can go to the next step forward and go the
administrative hearing officer can go wait a minute. This
isn't syncing up. Let's find out more. Give me your Bina.
Please turn over documents. It's my only question. Thank
you very much.
I have
Any other questions or comments on this item?
I was going to just say it's well, I appreciate you
introducing us and working on this Alderman laspada been
working with our team. It's been a pleasure having no more
questions that emotion to recommend approval decide on
Alder & Martin still moves all those in favor. Say aye all
those opposed say nay the opinion of the chair the eyes
have it. I will report. This is a recommendation to pass at
the next city council in November 7th, 2023.
Congratulations ottoman with Savannah.
On to the main event. Everybody guys drummle all write our
last item before the committee today is resolution 2020
3000 4577 a call for subject-matter cheering on the
proposed rate hike by Peoples Gas Company that is before
the Illinois Commerce Commission as we move forward on
this. This would be a good time if you are going to be
testifying on this, too.
I love
a local
Allocate yourself so that you may easily come to the front.
So as we called on people to testify we will have you come
forward to these chairs with the microphones. This is where
you'll sit during your testimony and we'll kind of go one
at a time. So just us a list of a note for this resolution.
May I have a motion to recommend approval the side? I'm by
the same roll call vote to establish Quorum. So tell right.
So I moved Alderman Knudsen all those in favor. Say aye all
those opposed say nay and if any of the chair the eyes have
it and I will report. This photo is a recommendation to
pass the next city council meeting on November 7th 2023.
All right with that I'd like to turn this over to the
chief. Sponsor Alderman Conway to share some words with the
committee chairwoman had for working with my office and
have to coordinate this hearing as well as as well as
everyone on the committee and for the opportunity to speak
on this resolution today. I also want to thank all the
representatives from the citizens Utility Board public
interest research group environmental defense fund Nathan
Place Peoples Gas jll construction operating engineers
local 150 all of you for joining us to share your expertise
today on this on this matter.
I call.
I called for the
I called for this hearing because in 10 days the Illinois
Commerce Commission will announce their decision on a
massive utility rate hike that stands to impact almost a
million Chicago customers essentially all of our
constituents and obviously many people have to have strong
feelings on this as we can tell by the overcapacity crowd
we have here today. Now this council is not the deciding
body for that request. But none the less. We have a
responsibility to be the voice of Chicagoans in this
process to ensure transparency and to ensure accountability
particularly because consumers don't have another option if
you want to eat and cooking gas in Chicago Peoples Gas is a
monopoly they're the only game in town.
What are we in our Peoples Gas is not a typical regulated
monopolies as some of you may know they don't operate under
under a franchise agreement with the city of Chicago like
other utilities for rather under a Perpetual Charter
granted by the Illinois general assembly and can send it to
buy the city all before the civil war occurred which
complicates the periodic review of rate hikes. So so far
Peoples Gas has proposed aa402 million dollar rate hike
which is there the largest in State history, of course and
this rate.
Bike has been proposed.
Like has been proposed following Peoples Gas six straight
year of record profits, which amounted to 208 million
dollars in 2022 and that financial success has continued
into 2023.
an
And on multiple earnings calls the executive chairman of
wec energy, which is Peoples Gas parent company has told
Wall Street analysts The Peoples Gas plans to file annual
rate hikes in order continue spinning aggressively on its
pipe replacement problem program and budget estimates for
that pipe replacement program have ballooned from 2 billion
dollars initially up to about 11 billion dollars now.
all
Also concerning is in the second quarter of 2023 and
they're in their SEC filing wec itself credited increasing
quote late fee Revenue as a primary driver driver of
year-over-year profit increases during the quarter as as it
is done repeatedly in recent years. Now the rate hike that
is before the ICC now would add almost $12 a month to
Consumers bills and could add to the utility death that is
already burdening many Chicagoans back data provided to the
Illinois Commerce Commission by Peoples Gas demonstrated
that black and brown communities are disproportionately
impacted by Dash.
And utility. And specifically is I referenced in the
resolution today Peoples Gas on data shows that nearly 50%
of households in Englewood are behind in their pills with
an average debt of $1,000. Now, that's just that's Out Of
Reach for most families sober people to admit that these
penalties Drive their profits and then ask for a record
rate hike is is very troubling and no going for its
forward. It seems pretty obvious that is rape goes the
rates go up the dead as likely to go up as well.
So this hearing today is really an opportunity for my
collie tonight to learn more about increasing utility
utility costs and how Chicagoans are impacted chick of the
time when people people are hurting financially some
communities more so than others.
NF
And at the conclusion of this hearing I would ask you to my
colleagues that our plan would be to make our opinion and
findings made known to the ICC in short order because time
is time is of course a hectic in here.
So a record rate hike following record profits when many
customers are sinking deeper and deeper into debt gives me
pause, and I'm sure to to all of my colleagues as well. So
I appreciate you all coming in to help us wrap our wrap our
heads around that. Thank you man. Thank you. I'm in Conway
and thanks for bringing this resolution forward.
in
In January of this year Peoples Gas submitted the request
of the ICC to approval rate increase in the amount of 402
million as Alderman Conway mentioned. This is the largest
increase in Peoples Gas or any gas utility has sought from
the ICC their Quest is to offset of $15 per month surcharge
that expires at the end of 2023 and would be without us to
the bills for the system modernization program a pipe
replacement program critical for updating Peoples Gas
infrastructure.
deep
people
Peoples Gas has contended that these updates are imperative
to keep Chicago and safe from brakes and leaks and I think
it's safe to say that Chicago and safety and well-being is
a top priority for everyone in this room today. However, as
Alderman Conway stated as we heard from our public comment
in our written, there have been concerned about
mismanagement of the pipe replacement program as it has
fallen short of its quarterly goal since it started filing
reports in 2018. Furthermore. The program is expected to be
approximately 600% higher than the original budget
ballooning from a projected to billion to 11 billion.
by the time the
By the time the replacement initiative wraps up in 2040
because of this the city of Chicago which is a party to the
rate increase case has asked the ICC to re-evaluate the
system modernization program and to disallow pipe
replacement project that Peoples Gas has not been able to
sufficiently justify Peoples Gas posits that customers
bills will remain largely unchanged with the rate hike
citing the decreasing price of natural gas in the
expiration of the $15 monthly surcharge their concerns that
were lying on the current market value of natural gas is in
my office approached as external factors creative all of
the market in February 2022. We saw an increase in the cost
per barrel after Russia invaded Ukraine the tensions On The
Rise and a prolonged conflict in the Middle East looming it
seems all but inevitable that we will see another increase
in the cost of natural gas.
in
In October and administrative law judge released a draft
decision recommending that the ICC Grant Peoples Gas at 350
million dollar rate increase the draft order authorizes 311
million in annual Peoples Gas profits, which would almost
triple the current authorized level Peoples Gas has
reported out record profits over the past six years the
draft decision from the administrative judge is not final
and the ICC is expected to issue a final recommendation on
the rate increase on November 16th, as we see the impacts
of rising costs and stagnant wages touch every corner of
our city.
there are
Therapist had additional charges to customers monthly
utility bills the man scrutiny from this body furthermore
as we continue to experience the devastating impacts of
climate change year-over-year. We need to fully consider
the consequences of the rate increase request and whether
it makes sense to continue investing and systems of
centuries past instead of looking at how we can invest in
the infrastructure disc of the current moment demands us
given the realities of climate change. We're here today to
engage in a robust discussion about the rate hike request
how that intersects with our constituents safety labor and
the efforts to transition away from dependency on fossil
fuels with that. I would like to take a moment to introduce
our guests will be providing testimony and made themselves
available for questions and answers today for which we are
very grateful.
we
We aim to keep a balanced panel with representatives from
Peoples Gas labor union subcontractors environmental
Advocates and consumer Advocates all presents discuss the
rate hike increase. I'm going to list all the speakers so
don't get up just yet to tell you everybody that's going to
speak and then I'll call you one at a time offer testimony.
So joining us today. We have torun tense and present of
Peoples Gas Jason Carter with Local 1 8007 car Principe
with local 150. Jerry Lewis present of jll construction
elbow around episodes executive director of the national
Latino Education Institute. Yvonne R I T wave.
citizens Utility Board
Citizens Utility Board Aid scar state director and energy
utilities program director from the Illinois public
interest research group Christie Hicks senior director and
Lead counsel for the environmental defense fund and 11 for
Anika Johnson with faith and peace print place. I'll know
turn it over to our first Speaker Torrence Hinton. Please
step forward it comfy in your seat.
Thank you for joining us today. And you may begin your
testimony whenever you are ready.
Aldi
Al. Just no. Ottoman Lopez for the Roll Call
And for the record man of chair Morrow, Georgia, so I
represent Peoples Gas.
Thank you for joining us. You're welcome.
more
Morning morning.
Madam Chair by Cher to the entire committee on
environmental and protection and energy. My name is
Torrance hitting on the president of Peoples Gas want to
thank you for giving me the opportunity to appear before
you today. I want to start by sharing just a lil bit about
myself. I am a lifelong chicagoan and I've worked at
people's gas for 24 years. I started my career in an entry
level engineering position and work my way up to my current
roll. It is an honor to lead this organisation and
organization with a rich
107
170 plus year
170 + your history and organization is comprised of diverse
and talented people from the front my utility workers to
our Care Center agents engineers and administrative staff
who provide critical support.
these
These team members know every individual neighborhood of
Chicago because they do the work in every neighborhood
because they also live across all of Chicago neighborhoods.
I'm
I myself was born and raised on the Southside in the South
Shore neighborhood. I am a graduate of CPS and I've had the
opportunity to attend various institutions of Higher
Learning right here in Chicago.
The work we're doing is vital to the city of Chicago today
and into the future and is a resident it is personal to me.
now I
I want to take a few minutes to discuss our rate filing
that is before the Illinois Commerce Commission. I also
will be happy to answer any questions you might have with
me.
Are filing is really about two things safety and
reliability.
dim
The Investments we're making are needed to provide
Chicagoans with a modern safe and reliable energy Network.
people
Peoples Gas operates one of the oldest gas delivery
networks in the entire United States
we along with our labor partners are making Investments
every day to ensure the safety reliability and
environmental sustainability of the system that heats
Chicago's homes and businesses.
Peoples Gas is doing urgently-needed modernization work to
address Lumi reliability and safety concerns posed by the
system's Antiquated rapidly corroding pipes.
Please play.
These pipes they back as far as the 1800s.
This is tough and complex work that involves replacing
hundreds of miles of pipes their challenges doing this work
in the third largest city in the United States is many
parts of our city are extremely dense. Things are congested
even below ground.
We're highly skilled construction crew members work
everyday. Our crew members are also working are also moving
more than 600,000 on the inside customers homes to the
outside. This is another feature of our work that's
designed to ensure safety.
Mana
Modernization of the system is crucial to Public Safety and
service reliability those two things safety and reliability
are entwined.
if the
If the energy system that heats Chicagoans homes and
businesses fail that is a direct threat to People's Health
and lives, especially in our very cold Winters.
and
An independent engineering study has determined this threat
is approaching.
stud
The study which was ordered by the Illinois Commerce
Commission found that more than 80% of the iron pipes in
Chicago's Energy Delivery system are at the end of their
useful life.
just
The study has determined they have less than 15 years of
life left on average.
live
Liability means protecting People's Health in lies in
Chicago's freezing cold Winters and year-round risk in the
system means risk two lives. This is why we are committed
to improving our agents system for the safety of every
Chicago and across every neighborhood.
Hope
open
Appropriate for this committee at work also is enhancing
equity and environmental justice several National Studies
have expose that more gas leaks into exist were people of
color live there strong evidence do that. Chicago is an
exception to this trend and it's not by accident rather us
because we prioritize safety and service reliability in
every Chicago neighborhood.
I'm going.
I'm going to
I'm going modernization of the system is a huge part of
this since 2017 our modernization work as reduce methane
emissions by more than 1,300 metric tons across the city.
The work has been happening and will continue to happen in
every Chicago neighborhood where our aging infrastructure
exists.
What?
when
One more very important point about environmental justice
in the modernization of Chicago's Energy Delivery system is
that the work is positioning Chicago or clean energy future
in which renewable natural gas and hydrogen can heat our
homes and our businesses. In fact, we are in the process of
completing our first renewable natural gas project. It will
be located in the city's south side and thanks to our
system upgrades. Our delivery network is ready for this
tire.
in
In addition to our critical safety pipeline Investments the
cost to run our business have increased significantly over
the past decade.
just a
Just as they have for any other industry service or
product.
right
Rising inflation in recent years affects each one of us in
this room and everything we purchase.
We have also invested in new facilities to provide
employees with safe working environment and new training
opportunities to improve customer service and again to
ensure system reliability.
We have made significant upgrades in our customer focus
software and Technology systems customer service is a top
priority of ours.
We want every experience. Our customers have with us every
touch point to be an efficient and positive experience.
We share your concerns on affordability. It's part of our
rate request. We have proposed to the Illinois Commerce
Commission that lower-income customers receive a discount
on every one of their monthly bills consistent with
Illinois Law the size of the discount would ultimately be
determined by the Illinois Commerce Commission. But our
latest proposal would have our Residential Heating
customers receive a monthly discount equal to the full
customer charge amount which currently is just under $31.
In addition to the proposed assistance are filing. It is
expected to have little to no impact on the bottom line of
our customers bills. If the commission would approve our
rate request the delivery charge for a typical residential
customer would increase but another component of our bill
the cost of natural gas has decline from last year the
reduction and natural gas prices were largely offset the
proposed increase in the delivery portion of the bill.
laugh
Last but certainly not least Peoples Gas believes in
bettering the communities in which we serve that means
directly investing in the people who live in Chicago.
Our Workforce is 70% diverse and almost 50% are City
residents in addition to the wide array of jobs. We offer
and significant positive economic impact our work has on
the Chicago economy. We are committed to doing business
with the birth suppliers in Illinois since 2015 Peoples Gas
has spent more than nine hundred million dollars with
diverse suppliers in Illinois Peoples Gas is also
significantly increase its charitable giving we have
contributed more than 45 million dollars to 150 Chicagoland
Charities about four million dollars on average.
this
This completes my overview of our rate review filing, and I
look forward to hearing your comments and answering any
questions. Thank you.
Thank you. Mr. Handsome.
I've got a question that I'll start with and then I'll open
it up for our committee members here. And as we as we go
through this committee, even remembers remember, we got
multiple people were going to hear testimony from so I may
depending on how many of our questions we have for Mr.
Henson. I'm a positive so that we can move on to our next
person for Testimony, but I will ask
peoples
People's got such a long history, right?
When we think about you guys are telling us the giant
infrastructure investment that needs to be made right 85%
of these pipes that need to be replaced. Can you tell us as
as customers its ratepayers as you know residence here in
the city of Chicago, what's your plan for the future?
Right? So, you know so much of like we are all living in
the same time. We have heard the testimony we've seen the
science. We see the concerns about natural gas or whether
you have health concerns write-up about natural gas
weather. We're looking at like actual finite limits to how
much of this resource we have the cost restrictive Miss.
It's hard to think about us being asked to foot the bill
for such a large investment that maybe would go for another
hundred years when we might not want to use this energy
sources. Can you speak to what what is Peoples Gas been
doing to
play
Plan for the future and is any of this infrastructure
investment that you're asking us to to pay for something
that could be used for anything other than you delivering
gas to Chicago and thank you for that question. Jefferson
hadn't so I'll start by saying our infrastructure program
is helping to improve him by.
because what is clue
Because what is clear is when we have completed the
neighborhood work for safety modernization the leaks that
occur in our system is reduced by over 99% So I'll start
the fact is is is I stated we have a long Rich history and
I give a lot of credit to those who came before us in terms
of the infrastructure that were utilizing a day but Cass
and Uncle iron pipes leak, they cracked the brakes. They
represent a real safety concern reliability concerns as
well as concerned for the environment. So the
infrastructure we are putting in place today primarily
plastic or polyethylene as far to some steel pipes will
allow us to utilize renewable natural gas and potentially
hydrogen in the future that has a lower carbon footprint
and that will not only help the environment. But again
allow us to improve the safety and reliability which we
know exists and we are certainly have championed the need
to replace his own infrastructure, but you don't just have
to
believe is the Illinois Commerce Commission ordered a study
by independent well-renowned engineering firm and they have
stated that over 80% of the current Antiquated system has
less than a 15-year useful life and I like to remind people
that study was completed in 2020.
Thank you for that answer. I know.
Thank you for that answer. I know my colleagues have more
questions for you. So I'm going to sit back and listen to
start with all them in Conway today. I went to touch on
your last Point regarding natural gas prices. Now you would
you would concede that natural gas is a pretty volatile
commodity as far as price goes, right? I will concede that.
Yeah, I saw that, you know you made this similar point when
you spoke before the Illinois Commerce Commission back just
a few months ago on August 1st bunch of natural gas any
idea what the price of natural gas was on that date on
August 1st. He was a guest. I do not know the exact words
about it was about $2.50 per per million. Btu. I have
wonderful news today for some reason showing its volatility
price of match.
Yeah.
Yes.
Gas is down 5% this today since we've been sitting here and
yet the price of natural gas as we're sitting here is
almost $3.30 per hour for Vermilion Pt. 2 used showing it
even just in a short. Of time. The price of natural gas has
increased by 30% in in which shows the the volatility.
in
You know.
You know that that this that this commodity May face and
and I won't even get into the fact that whether that
potential savings and that commodity should be given all to
Peoples Gas or simply split with the consumers but I would
ask is as someone who's been working in the in the in the
gas sector for 24 years is the price of natural gas. Will
that often be affected by geopolitical events? If so, let
me just start over Mike Highway by one point very clear the
price of natural gas. We do not earn on that price. So we
do our best to make prune purchases of natural gas and we
passed that directly on to our customer. So there's no
profit when it comes to our utility. Oh really? I don't
think any natural gas utility when it comes to the Natural
Gas come out of the price.
you're
Yorba
Your bills won't increase because we are because the price
of gas has gone down. So it's hard to say you don't take
any problems with using it as a reason to raise prices in
this case, but I'm not using it as is there a reason or
excuse. I just want to make clear that we do not take a
profit on the price of natural gas. We do our best to
purchase that commodity on the open market as well as
utilize our own storage facilities of which we have one
here in the central part of, Illinois.
Is why?
Is well?
as well as
As well as least stores to make sure in the height of
winter. Our customers are getting the best price possible
for natural gas. But you are correct. It is a knife. It's a
volatile a fuel source and its bottle because it's relied
upon not just within our country globally to support not
just Natural Gas Utilities, but the electric grid right and
told that that adds to its volatility.
an
And you would also can see that countries in the Middle
East and Russia are large providers of natural gas, right?
They are the United States is the largest provider of
natural gas and I think is I understand we through liquid
liquefied natural gas LNG are exporting more natural gas
and we have and certainly recent years and that's adding to
our own volatility in terms of us prices of natural gas. It
did it this time answer when I've known for the questions.
picture
Make your own ringtone wake next up. We've got Alderman
laspada and then we'll have Alderman Lopez. Thank you so
much. You're going to be here because I feel like my last
in person city council meeting pre covid was also on
Peoples Gas and I think it was on this exact same something
before we all got a job to do Autumn and laspada in this
room sitting here and then we were all sitting home for the
next 2 years. So I'm glad to be here.
and I'm glad to be
And I'm glad to be carrying on the conversation. So I
wanted to pick up on a a line of questioning brought
forward by Alder Conway because you had shared the
the prophets that we see for people's gas are not driven by
natural gas prices. And then you also were saying that the
in great increase of we're asking for through the ICC is
driven by these enhanced infrastructure needs. So if the
rate the ICC Revenue like the increase of their time now
goes towards infrastructure in the natural gas prices don't
drive profits either where do the profits come from because
we have seen Peoples Gas generating record profits what
accounts for that you have happy to respond to that
question. So this re-filing we have made with the ICC
impacts our customer charge next day delivery or customer
service charge portion. That's found on your utility bill.
Typically, your natural gas utility bill has three
components. It's a natural gas.
Battery which again? I repeat we do not make a profit.
That's a pass-through cost for us. The other portion of the
bill is the customer or delivery charge for which we do
earn a profit. And then the other portion of the bill is
typically taxes fees and things of that nature but to your
question our investments that we have made into the
infrastructure, which is needed is what is impacting the
customer or delivery portion of the gas bill. So the taxes,
of course only to the profit margin the commodity costs
doesn't lead to the profit. Margin why talk to spend more
about the customer charge how that is set up. What what
part of that goes towards infrastructure and what part of
that drives profit for people's gas. So the regulatory
framework that's within our delivery charge covers multiple
items. It covers our investments. It covers our cost to
run.
This is our
Business operations and maintenance cost But ultimately
through that structure is how we aren't allowed rate of
return that return is not guaranteed ultimately. It depends
on how we operate the business to be affected. So you would
say cuz I know the folks peeking behind you may have a
contrary argument you would say that what is driving
Peoples Gas profits are related to efficiencies on the
hopper.
Yes.
Yes, we are filed this rate case because of Investments
that we have made in the system because of Investments. We
have made to our facilities because of Investments we have
made to our gas storage facilities. That is the reason for
filing and you would say that efficiencies have gone so
dramatically well that you would argue that that is what is
driving the record profits that Peoples Gas to see is that
accurate or is there something else that's accurate I would
say the way we are putting the business has allowed us to
benefit financially and that Financial benefit. Our
financial strength is also a benefit for our customers
because ultimately we are business why we take out loans
and Death at a certain price to extend our company is
financially strong. We are allowed or able to get more
favorable terms when we go out to the market for
that they
That that old cement Lee is part of our overall refiling.
to
Two questions, and then I'll let you go because I feel like
I'm exhausted my tub.
If there are such a speeding infrastructure needs and there
is such expanding profit margin as well or expanding profit
why not go into the profits to fund infrastructure. What
why is the why is such a record rate case needed at all?
Yeah, it's either because we are spending hundreds of
millions of dollars to replace our infrastructure and
the regulatory framework allows us to get recovery for that
for those Investments Investments that again or needed.
Okay. I'll let the floor do what it will you you spoke
about this as an environmental justice issue in terms of
the work that we're doing.
and
And now we know also that unless you're consistently and
always using a range hood which most certainly going to
have access to you are in fact when you burn natural gas
releasing carcinogens into your home through yourself, we
know that about 20% of town tote. Asthma cases are related
to burning natural gas in our kitchens.
in our new
In our new home, we're getting an electric range because I
I cannot fathom with my 14 month old making any choices
that could lead to her having childhood. Asthma now or in
the future. What do what is the case to be made to Chicago
in to continue burning natural gas in their homes? Yeah.
I'm not aware of that studying a fact. I'm not aware of any
studies that link asthma or any other health outcomes from
natural gas. So make sure to send it to you after the
meeting. I am aware of studies that have shown that
whatever you're cooking in terms of not only using natural
gas. You can use an electric stove to your point. If you
are cooking at a certain temperature and the exhaust in
your kitchen is inadequate you are creating a certain
condition. So it's not based on what I've read based on a
few Source being natural gas in the end. I think the more
we can get fax out to the better because I'm not aware of
any
Play linking asthma or other health concern is solely based
on using natural gas as a cooking Source. I feel like we're
in a big tobacco hearing over here. Alright, I'll Herman
Lopez followed by Alderman sick show Lopez.
they
Thank you to women and good morning members of the
committee. Good morning. Mr. Henson. Good morning is
charged.
Where is
We're in something. All right, that's for sure. But I want
to ask if I'm a Peoples Gas in your parent company. Yes,
I've done this before.
Is this a private company?
No.
No, it's an investor-owned company, but it's safe private.
It's a private if a business is your business and
stockholders or not. This is not a government agency
corrected a government agency. So most businesses on my
government needs to make money in order to exist, correct.
We are a for-profit business. I just want to make sure that
we are all understanding what a business means because many
of us are used to this building with a incorporation that
is fueled on debt and deficit and just naturally ads on
every other increase Levy every year to its customers
without question. You don't have that luxury. Correct,
correct?
as
As such you as a head of this Corporation with stockholders
has a fiduciary responsibility to them as well being a
private business. Correct, correct? What does that mean?
that
That means we owe it to our shareholders to make sure we're
operating an efficient business. So not losing money.
Not a
Not in the red not taking on debt that you can maintain all
the things that the city of Chicago's incorporation is
known for correct.
answer that
Answer that if you don't want to I'll leave you that the
point thing is that all private businesses cannot exist,
whether it's a mom-and-pop restaurant or Peoples Gas if
they are in the red not making money not putting people to
work not able to provide for their customers not being able
to do what they need to do for the people that they are
providing service for correct.
Correct. If you didn't did if you did operate in that
manner how many people would be out of a job we could have
hundreds if not thousands. If you did not exist tomorrow
how many people would be out of a job more than 1,500 how
many union jobs will be out the window more than a
thousand.
I'm
How many households do not have an Avenue upon which to get
the infrastructure Investments that are so critical over
800,000 Emily look at how you do this. The fact of the
matter is that yes, some of this does come from your
customer charges correct? Some of this also is debt that
you take on incorrect to finances. That's correct. What's
your
Bond rating or your your credit score when it comes to this
going out for recollection of being believed peoples gas is
a a minus rating in the credit community. So better than
the city of Chicago's
I'll be honest. I do not know what the city of Chicago
credit rating in. My point. Is this again? Is that the city
of Chicago and all of us here are right now in the Next
Room focusing on our taxes our budget are spending we have
structural deficits of nearly four hundred million dollars
upon which we just borrow more keep kicking the can down
the road to the tune of 66 billion dollars in debt. Could
you operate like that? Not at all know all of those people
that work for you all those union jobs at create that
middle class that we like talking about thing is so
important all of that relies on you being able to provide a
service and charge accordingly, correct? That's correct.
And as a private business if you do actually make money off
it because energy is exceedingly volatile then it's just
good business practice that you
Good business practice that you were able to function on in
the black and not in the red is so many governments and
everyone else. That's correct. Functioning is the black is
Argo. I just wanted to add that.
in
In my previous life I work for an airline and if ever
there's a industry that knows the volatility of gas and
fuel prices. It's us because in the blink of an eye, you
can see your ticket prices Skyrocket literally overnight
because of the way and which jet fuel and other fuels our
pay for some Airlines were able to do what was called
hedging which you pay in advance with them for sure you're
familiar with so that you can offset any costs. Would you
take a risk? Correct? I'm going to risk that the price of
this commodity this fuel at whatever gallon or how were
your metric will be for purchase is going to be set at this
and I'm going to buy it at this rate may both go down and
make that volatility that my colleague spoke about what
would happen to your customers if it were to double and
pricing its we'll have a real real impact on our customers
and they're not in a
wait
Play audible you call me all different. That's my ottoman.
I don't think people understand.
I don't think people understand just how the volatility of
what we're talking about can immediately impact everyone.
ragar
Regardless of what decisions are being made by the city or
state level because it's still a commodity you have to
purchase your not going to purchase at a loss. You're not
going to pass on it a lot. But that's just not how this
works. And I think we have to be mindful of that fact and
enclosing the other thing that I think we need to address
to is how much of the bill on a
peep
Peoples Gas bill is text fee and other related when I was
about ten or 15% So I think if my colleagues are really
interested in trying to lower people's pricing on their
bills. We can start with the 10% that we had on protects us
from the start. Thank you. Madam. Chairman, I think Solomon
Lopez we're going to do a just a direct question from
Alderman Conway. It was just following up on all the
presents question. So based on your testimony. Are you
telling this committee today that if you don't get your
record rate hike you will cut jobs and Community Support
instead of cutting into your sixth straight year of record
profits. Is that really what you're telling me is, this
committee here today? I don't think that's what I'm saying
Alderman. I will say whatever we receive from the
commission.
And how we run the business.
And how we run the business it will have a real impact.
We all turn.
We alternate.
We alternate Lee will have to make decisions on the outcome
of that Ray case on how we continue to try to be a safe and
reliable energy provider. It will have an impact is
vegetable ottoman Central Lopez.
and we have a microphone for Eugenia if you could
thank you. Thank you for the hearing just filling up with a
line of questioning from some of my colleagues just want a
verified the wec. And this is based on the testimony by the
citizens Utility Board.
They out-of-state boring company of Peoples Gas the pool
1.4 billion dollars in profits last year. Is that is that
correct? I don't think we've heard the testimony yet of of
cubs. So it's hard for this witness to respond. I'm basing
do some of the facts right. You can verify it as a fact or
not. This is your name Eve. Let's false. So one of you guys
if you don't have an answer to a question, you can just say
hey, I don't know why I don't have an answer. So and then
Alderman Lopez therapy your point of information. Thank you
madam president, with respect to my colleague.
Can we?
Can we limit questions to whomever has testified presently
because we still as you stated have numerous people who are
going to testify and we're not having an inclusive
conversation if we're not incorporating them and giving
them the opportunity to be heard for the Public's benefit.
I appreciate that that question Alderman Lopez. I'll say
every Committee Member and non-members can ask the
questions they want we do have other people who are going
to testify. So if that testimony hasn't been heard yet they
may not have an answer for you. But you're more than
welcome to share other into older men. Take your Lopez.
Please continue understand more more than the store so you
can tell me what were the profit profit margins what were
the profits last year for people's gas last year. We made a
profit of about 200 million.
tournament
under this bridge is one of the one of the concerns and
kind of what is being reported to a stakeholders morsels
what we report to the city of Chicago, so
Indy
And this is some of these reports its quarterly earnings
reports.
did
Department
The pipeline to prison program is seen as a major prophet
driver.
However for many
Chicago's people in Illinois
I do these important to understand they probably cost.
Play music.
3 years ago the qip legislation
articulated of the charge will not be more than 1.14 $1.15
a month.
is
It seems like this year.
Desert roaches already at $17 a month. Can you can you do
fight if that's the case of why cats change? Why are we
promised in the public certain cost in the past?
But now there's
I know there's so much different right now. And why is it
probably bearing when of course is not okay for the
operations of Peoples Gas? Yeah, I think the surcharge
varies depending on the residential customer or business
customer. I will say again. We are making these Investments
for safety and reliability that infrastructure that we're
doing the Investments. We are making ultimately is going to
make sure that we continue to operate a safe and reliable
system. It does cost.
but the
but those Investments
But those Investments are needed in again. We're not the
only ones indicating that the independent engineering study
that I referenced earlier has essentially said there they
are just to do more faster and we are trying to take a
prune reasonable approach. So as not to see an even greater
need potentially in the revenue requirement that we would
see before the commission. We're trying to take a measured
approach knowing that the work that we're doing is
critically important and I'm happy to be in front of this
body advocating for why this work is needed versus here and
we were not doing this word.
And potentially seeing cracks breaks into this occurring
right here in the city. That's what I'm here to avoid toll
for safety and it's either we don't want that we want one
is out to make sure that the safeties also in line with
possibility on the sake of the company to honor those
commitments Maine to the public. So I'm going to add to
that. I think the proposed tax the divorce rate hike is
about 400 over four hundred million dollars.
the impact the
The impact that these were having nothing just wouldn't
question right now. We know that one and every five
customers already struggling to make payments to have the
vehicle over 30 year over 30 days overturning the deals.
What is the impact right now?
I'm such a rate hike especially for people who are already
struggling and I thought about seeing your talk about
Google. I am the service.
a boy
I do more and if you come where I'm headed to this, how do
you justify this?
when
When we see clearly that they could be benefits to
customers out of the supply element alone.
Why we are not allowing those benefits.
To be able to reach customers at risk of the University of
Washington right now.
We can play.
You can please let me just say this. We are certainly
sensitive to the fact that a lot of Chicagoans are
struggling to pay their bills.
many are
Many are struggling to pay all of their bills let alone
their utility bills which is why we have not before then
before the Illinois Commerce Commission for rate filing in
almost 9 years and that is unique when you look at other
utilities and what they have done in the last nine years.
What's a week are sensitive to any customer who might be
struggling to pay their bills. That's why we encourage
customers to call us to work with us so that we can
understand what that's their situation might be so that we
can make sure that they are receiving any other benefits
either through the Federal State financial assistance or
even the assistance that we provide to our shareholder
dollars with the share the warmth program to make certain
that they have assistance. They need to keep the heat on
especially as we enter this winter.
What I wouldn't do this, but I do see a new shoe cuz you say
that increase rate in 9 years, but effectively with semen
increase when those promises on infrastructure investment
were not carried so that that is actually reading I do
think that there are costs that are already Associated that
have no being equated that are being put into the
customer's especially the most vulnerable customers.
Also, really seriously concerned about the effect of this.
Hike in customers already struggling with every one of the
account says that about nearly 90 $1000000 for poor
constituents yet. We have a company that is reporting over
two hundred million dollars in profits and a parent company
the reports 1.4 billion dollars.
again with the conditions that were
paucity
Positive or perhaps even include relief for the customer.
So I do have many more questions on this and I heard the
council to make sure that we advocate for our constituents
making sure that those tax I'd lose weight iced do not
affect us. Very portable concentra's. Thank you very much.
Thank you make a quick comment. You'll have you will have
an opportunity if you're able to fit it into we've got a
couple more runs questions. Thank you. I've actually got
Alderman Martin and Then followed by a wild woman Scott.
Thanks.
Thank you. Very good morning still for at least the next 29
minutes. I wanted to follow up on some question from
Alderman laspada specifically with some more detailed
information. So dating back to 1990 to the Journal of the
air and waste management association publish an article.
That was a synthesis of 11 previous studies that found an
increase to nitrogen oxide. Dioxide exposure from gas
stoves would result in an increase of about 20% in
respiratory illness to Children Under 12 years of age over
it like about a decade ago. So obviously two decades since
then that International Journal of Environmental Research
and public health published a study
that
That that I think old man was spotted was referencing that
21% of childhood. Asthma cases attributable a gas stove use
in Illinois. Specifically, I think nationally that number
was a little lower perhaps twelve or thirteen percent
largely due to I think are our heavy Reliance on natural
gas burning stoves and other parts of the country. So I
think respectfully it seems like there's a good amount of
information that hopefully someone in Peoples Gas is aware
of in terms of the negative impacts of gas burning stoves
specifically on children. So my point is not to quibble
with your answer in that regard but more thinking
prospectively. I think that when you look at a lot of that
information you hear about the the rate hikes and then you
hear from a gentleman Who provided public testimony earlier
today about what he was in the process of doing which was
we need his residence off of natural gas.
Tireli, it seems quite plausible to me. I'm not going to
speak with complete certainty, but very plausible that in
the coming decades will see a very significant transition
away from using natural gas appliances heaters stoves
dryers for a few examples and that just like his we were
transitioning away from coal-burning stoves in the 1940s
that that transition very possible have a disproportionate
impact on our lower-income.
Do you think we in our communities of color and so I'm
curious what conversations people's has been happening.
I've been having about that possibility again. I'm not
saying it's a certainty that a possibility of that
transition away from Gas Appliances specifically with an
eye towards ensuring that if that transition were to happen
that are lowest-income communities worn. Again Left Behind
to pay higher prices for appliances that have a poor impact
on the health in particular of their children in the coming
decades yet. So if you bear with me, I'm not familiar with
the study that you referencing. I'll just read something
here that references a different study the US EPA nor the
US consumer product safety commission identifies any
significant health issues associated with the operation of
natural gas fuel cooking appliances for air quality
concerns and other public information from National Health
or
when
what has more development does not identify cooking
appliances as a source according to a study in the study is
entitle cooking fuse and the prevalence of asthma a global
analysis of phase 3 of the international study of asthma
and allergies in childhood which analyzed over a half a
million primary and secondary school children from over 100
centers in 47 countries in the study quote no evidence of
an association between the use of gas. Is it cooking Fuel
and either asthma?
symptoms or a
Symptoms or an asthma diagnostic. So that's the information.
I'm I'm aware of relative to this tied at someone trying to
make with natural gas cooking appliances in the cause of
asthma and anyone let alone children in terms of your
question about as we look forward to the future.
The system that we're putting in place will not only be
safer more reliable. It will allow us to adopt newer fuel
technology such as renewable natural gas as well as
hydrogen to use in our underground of delivery
infrastructure when it comes to Electric station. I
understand there are number of folks proponents of having
everything on the grid. I would encourage this Committee in
any policy maker or a legislator understand. What does that
mean? And what what will that cost both from a utility
perspective in order to get the grid ready for that
increase load it was well as what is going to be the cost
for customers who would be interested in converting I can
tell you now looking at the data the fuel that we provide
in our pipeline over the winter is 32 times the capacity of
the current system in terms of the Grid in the summer
months.
and so
And so did they do we look at would suggest that anyone
who's looking to make that type of transition really needs
to understand who's going to bear that cost. And what does
it mean in? Are you really reducing emissions when the grid
is fueled by multiple fuel sources as we know nuclear coal
natural gas son. And when and we see it in the data more
more Renewables are coming on line, which is a great thing.
But those were Nobles are not going to take up the capacity
at we're seeing as we most generator to power are
intentionally shutting down their coal power plants. And
what are they putting up and stayed an additional renewable
natural gas and you don't have to take my word for a minute
and you can look at the United States Energy Information
Administration eia, and they predict decades out what they
expect to be using as a fuel source for the grid and
natural gas is going to be that fuel source, which is one
of the reasons why it's so volatile because it's being used
in many different.
look
Locations and not just in the United States, but we're
sending it overseas so that they can have better natural
gas prices and and that's just reality they were facing
today. So I don't feel that that was responsive at all to
my question in terms of if there is a scenario where we see
on increasing transition away from gas-burning appliances.
What what is Peoples Gas prepared to do to ensure that
those who are least able to
Hey.
Pay for that don't get left holding the bag. I'm not I'm not
quibbling about like what other places are considering and
what is the likeliest scenario and we all deal with
contingency plans. Anyone who has a crystal ball with this
certainly wouldn't be in my position or your position. They
would be no trading Futures and many other things to make
many millions if not more. So I'm wondering what sort of
contingency plan and you have in place to ensure that our
lowest income communities are going to Bear the brunt of a
transition if that happens. So we are working hard to make
sure that the Investments we are making our food and for
all our of all of our customers, including our Lord income
customers because we have an obligation to provide a
service no matter who our customers are so old family. We
want to continue to make sure that we are effectively
managing our business so that we're not increasing the cost
above and beyond.
What we know is actually required to continue to maintain a
safe and reliable system.
Atop A
Atopic for further conversation. Thank you cheer and Keon
red. Martin older. Woman's got to have the microphone Hi,
how are you? So, I want a kind of piggyback on what all
them and see Joe Lopez stated, you know, it's it's a
question that's in my mind because we know what the with
the rate hike and reading.
many of our low-income families
it's
It seems that though that the gas company profits off of
our late fees and so could do you know how much and late
fees? Can you tell me that now or can you bring it back to
the chair? How much of a profit do you guys make in late
fees? I do not have our late fee charge. We can certainly
follow up in terms of getting you that data. I will make
just one quick point because of Illinois Law are low-income
customers are are not charged late fees, but they have to
sign up and know that correct, but you have to sign up.
Okay and
But still it is a huge profit that you make off of the late
fees off of customers and itself not just a low income but
everyone it's a huge profit that you make in late fees. So
if you can bring that information back to the chair, you
can bring that information back to the chair. I would I
would love to know what is that profit margin that the late
fees are with additional to the bill. That would be great.
We'll be having a follow-up. Thank you. I think that's a
great question and I'll know we did have a public comment
earlier that actually shared some information about the
late fees. I don't remember the number but I think some of
our next people to testify some of our other Witnesses
today might have information on that, but obviously you
look for that to go for the low-income families. Is that
information?
websites
the website so they
the website so that like
The website so that like we can distribute that to our
constituents.
Thank you, Scott. Thank you. Madam, chair morning. Mr.
Hinton question around the infrastructure. So when
When Peoples Gas request a rate increase to deal with the
infrastructure.
does the
Does that increase continue to grow with the years as the
cost of construction increases or is it frozen at that time
when you make that request for the increase? Yeah, so what
and did more than I would have been what grows over time
and what will impact over time is the increase in in labor
and materials as a project roles in terms of the
Investments that we are seeking is part of this rate
increase we made those Investments. So those Investments
were made at the point in time when we pay for those
projects and ultimately is what we're seeking a put into
current rates. Yeah. I just wanted to we were talking about
the prophets. I thought that as when you make that when you
make that request it's at that time and then when as
construction continues to move every year are our friends
and in organized labor receive an increase, and that has to
be fat
so I
So I wasn't sure if that was coming out of it out of the
rate increase on a company's profits. It's coming out of
the company profit. So it's it's a point in time what we
are certainly watching is because this is a multi-decade
program, you know, obviously a lot of things might happen
in the future that has an impact in terms of the work that
we're doing in and ultimately the cause we were there for
that work. Okay. Thank you. Thank you.
and has
Fantastic, I'm sorry. I didn't thank you. We're not letting
you leave the room just yet. FYI, but you certainly Your
Mark and return to your seats. Appreciate that and thank
you for answering our questions for your testimony. We're
going to bring up our next three people for your testimony.
And so if we could have a Jason Carter car principal and as
well as Jerry Lewis, please come on down.
Yeah, I won't let you testify one by one, but that way
we'll ask you questions in a flight if you will.
Oh.
Oh and you know what? And can we add one more a Alba around
Azusa?
Yeah, I'll get cozy you guys can share the mic.
All right. We're going to start with Jason.
Good morning, chairwoman had him and members of the
committee.
Renee
My name is Jason Carter.
lamp
9 president of the utility Workers Union Local 18 w-718 007
Chicago. I'm also a 32-year employee with Peoples Gas
started off as a meter reader. And now I am a senior
service specialist. Number one respond to gas emergencies
in homes.
are
Our union represents approximately 900 hourly employees of
peoples gas while responsible for safely delivering natural
gas to our customers in the city of Chicago. Our members
have built operated and maintained Chicago's natural gas
delivery system for many decades.
we all
we also said
We also staff people's gases customer care center for our
members take calls from customers on everything from leaks
to billing.
I'm
Our membership is almost 80% diverse and 30% of whom are
veterans. We reflect the diversity of Peoples Gas Chicago
customer base.
and
In partnership with Peoples Gas our members work around the
clock to ensure Chicagoans are supplied with safe.
What?
Affordable and reliable energy that makes so much of modern
life possible.
turn
Turn the workforce prospective are union members occupy.
Some of the most high road middle-class jobs in the entire
city jobs that are genuinely lifelong career Pathways for
people to follow and whose jobs were certainly be affected
with the move to all electric.
today
Today's Hearing Centers on the rape case filed with the
Illinois Commerce Commission by Peoples Gas.
the
There are many factors that go into the rape case to ensure
the safe reliable and affordable service that our members
worked to provide for all Chicagoans. A major component is
funding for the safety modernization program better known
as smp2 update our Antiquated system of cast iron pipes.
Reply. Critics say that investing in SMP is unnecessary
because the natural gas delivery system would be going away
in favor of all electrification to come back mileage
change.
Our local supports reducing carbon emissions as our Union
is made up of technically minded people whose everyday work
involves thinking like an engineer and mechanic any
scientist. We clearly understand the need for Chicago to
manage is carbon emissions.
I love her. We see serious issues for consumers in
undertaking a mass conversion of all gas uses to
electric-only.
the way
The one that would be major affordability issues
particularly in neighborhoods with older homes rental
properties and low-income populations rental conversion
costs are sure to be passed on to renters which were
inevitably lead to reduced housing options for economically
stress Chicagoans.
Secondly, the cost of conversion will fall
disproportionately on those customers least able to afford
the changes the resulting energy cost.
that's the
estimates to converter
estimates to convert home in Chicago to all electric
range from $43,000 to $75,000.
Finally any proposal to require new construction to be
built. All electric will create great inequity in the city
as those with older homes who can't afford to convert would
be left paying for the current system.
Why?
Why we support decarbonisation, we do not support wholesale
bands or natural gas at any level.
We see.
We see electrification as being far more costly and Orders
of magnitude more physically difficult than simply modern
dies in gas and uses strategies such as reducing
building-related emissions through fixing gas leaks
replacing older Gas Appliances with state-of-the-art
efficient gas appliances providing cost-effective
incentives for Energy Efficiency building envelope repairs
and Energy savings are example of policy approaches. That
would be more effective cost-efficient and perhaps more
importantly. We are less realistically achievable in
economic social and even physical terms as opposed to a
complete energy retrofit retrofit of the entire city of
Chicago.
where
Weather modernizing our pipeline system in the city of
Chicago also allows for opportunity to potentially
potentially use different sources of energy in the future
such as renewable natural gas or hydrogen.
now
Natural gas is a reliable source of energy for Chicago
residence, which is particularly important during the
city's dangerously cold Winters without natural gas for
heating homes, preparing food or providing hot water when
the power goes out people are left with no energy
alternatives to support their lives. So essential in a
black out the gas will stay on.
In conclusion, we believe the most responsible and
achievable approach to decarbonisation is to optimize the
use of existing natural gas systems rather than attempting
to reinvent the entire City's physical realities.
South
sound
Sound public policy should focus on modernizing and
improving these systems to support Chicagoans lives as we
reduce our City's carbon footprint.
and
Hello.
A local 18 007 we understand that responsible solutions to
our climate crisis. Do not lie in a single approach grab
the engineering science and a commitment to safety health
and economic well-being of the citizens of our great City
Market course to a brighter future for our
at all
I'd also like to add that I've been working as I stated for
people's gas for 32 years. I'm a diagnosed asthmatic.
I've never had a issue with people with gas cause an asthma
what I have had a issue with causing an asthma flare-up is
running from dogs or going to a Dusty house. Those things
have also attributed to maybe an asthma attack but not
Natural Gas.
I thought
I thank you for your time and the opportunity to speak.
Thank you. Thank you for your testimony Karen your next
yes, good morning. So terrible and members of the
committee. I am carpenter bee Council for the Indiana,
Illinois Iowa foundation for fair Contracting. The FFC is a
jointly trusteed labor-management representing thousands of
contractors and twenty-three thousand members of the
international Union of operating engineers local 150. I'm
here today to encourage continued investment and scheduling
of The Peoples Gas.
play
Safety modernization program the city is charged with
ensuring safe efficient and reliable Public Utility
Services while promoting the development of an effectively
competitive energy supplier a long-term decision involving
a difficult intersection of competing interest to ensure
the mission of the safety modernization program Peoples Gas
executed a project labor agreement providing for locally
trained labor union workers performing work at local wages
and benefits that Prevail in the area while eliminating
disruptions Labour disruptions, thereby ensuring a safe
efficient and reliable System since 2018, the safety
modernization program generated the most man-hours of any
project in local 150 jurisdiction in each of those years
due to the nature of the work and the close proximity with
other utilities Urban.
areas in
Areas, in other decaying infrastructure proper training is
essential to providing safe and efficient installation the
specific training required for such work occurs at Local
150s 1000-acre 100 million 100 million dollar training
facility in Wilmington, Illinois a report by the Illinois
Economic Policy Institute recently found that union workers
both a much higher productivity rate.
then they
then their counterparts
Then their counterparts in tough budgetary times
governments need to Spur long-term economic growth by
increasing internal investment and the safety modernization
program does just that and even though our unfunded
infrastructure liability nearly tops that of our unfunded
pension liability as a city and a state. We rarely hear
anything about it physical infrastructure investment
enhance his economic growth and boost employment research
shows that oil and gas infrastructure investment generate
$2.05 for every dollar invested. The safety modernization
program has further developed careers that sustain families
with several hundred tradespeople at least employee through
the program at any given time.
add
a d
A decrease in spending on the program will have bass
negative implications for those families and for regional
and state economies capping. The program is not in the best
line is not in line. I'm sorry with the best interest of
the city or conventional wisdom of infrastructure
investment weed.
We do.
We do now.
We do not wait for a system failure to address
infrastructure investment. We address the needs after
careful consideration of competing interest in these
uncertain times. The term recession is being thrown around
now is not the time to curtail infrastructure investment.
We look forward to working with Peoples Gas to improve the
long-term viability of the program and improve the safety
and modernization of infrastructure within the city of
Chicago. Thank you.
Thank you, Cara. And next up will hear from Terry. I
change. My name is Jerry Lewis and I'm currently the owner
on the president of g l l construction. And also I'm part
of an organization in which we employed which we train and
help employ over probably the last 10 years over 750
individuals within the field of construction. One of the
things that I bet I've learned is that the African American
community and I'm from the west side. I grew up born and
raised at Cook-Out born in Cook County Hospital raised up
on the west side of Chicago and the deficiencies of work
forces is what I've been experiencing over the past fifteen
to twenty years of signatory to Local 150 as well as the
laborers union and we've been systemic along with their
assistance and Peoples Gas assistance to put individuals to
work. So what
what's the
What's been my mission and Travie?
What's been my mission and traveling over every state
within the United States and building in New York and
Boston and all these various areas. I came home and I saw
the picture and I worked on that deficiency since my
business of over 25 years. I've owned jll construction. So
I not only have a general contracting. I'm a developer as
well as we work and putting people to work in the Peoples
Gas has over the past seven years at which I've been with
them has literally listen to us and being able to fill that
gap of putting people to work putting minorities to wear
black and brown individuals to wear that that pipeline
infrastructure is so important. It's really important not
just to be understood. I understand the rates and I
apologize. I don't have a written speech and I'm going from
from the hip here. I understand the rate increase that
averages about a hundred and fifty fifty dollars a year.
I am a
I have over three guys. I found out the other day. I have
over 300 relatives living in the city of Chicago and that's
over $28,000 in the account increase in their bill, but
then the programs that we've been running we put over 750
individuals to work of which Peoples Peoples Gas have been
contributed over 25% of that so that 25% which is union
wages impacts at 2 to roughly about 24.
billion dollars
Billion dollars in in in wages to two individuals that would
have never had the opportunity to work or had the
opportunity to become a union member or just support their
family. So that part is to me is more important than
anything is if it wages and out ways always the benefits of
being able to a person that can systematically take care of
his family can contribute to not just paying the utility
bill but going to the proper schools educating and then
educating their kids on the infrastructure that is that is
affecting our kids today. And what does that mean? That
means the future you guys I just bought a geothermal
company so which is which is not it was not meant to get
rid of Peoples Gas. It was meant to compliment Peoples Gas
it was meant to do they're all that lateral pipework and
all the piping that they're doing is the sea.
things
Bring me.
Something that geothermal has to do they're putting that
and it's putting thousands and thousands of people to work.
And so as far as I'm concerned in my point of view that
aspect of employment is really going to outweigh the
hundred and $44 per family that's going to increase because
we're talkin about anywhere between 75000 and 100000 per
family of employment and that increased means a lot and
they've been since
GHIN system
systemic
Systemic and behind everything that we've we've met and
everything we've tried to implement.
So that is that and I apologize for not paying homage to
the committee and and yourself and thank you for your
testimony and then we'll do it. If I don't know how long
the cord is if you can shift it over in Elba. Thank you.
Thank you. Don't worry. I'll do it for you. Thank you.
Thank you, Dionne by mental protection and energy. My name
is Anna and Elsa. I am the executive director of the
national Latino Education Institute and a l e i a nonprofit
that was founded as a Spanish Coalition for jobs and has
been serving the Latino community and under
underrepresented populations for over 50 years. I mean
building is geographically located on the southwest side of
Chicago and Community residents. We serve come from
throughout the Chicago land region north south south east
west
in a
in our
In our efforts to ensure a safe and healthy environment for
our participants. We worked previously in previous years
with this committee. Advocacy towards improving air and
water quality. So it's a very important arrest. In fact, we
have an air monitor on our building. We thank you for the
opportunity today to share organizations experience with
Peoples Gas are nonprofits history began in the late 1960s
with challenging suing a major Chicago utility company
regarding their Fair hiring practices.
We were previously known as the Spanish Coalition for jobs.
We won and we band began a very strong collaboration will
not only that company but other companies such as Peoples
Gas to ensure access to good jobs and to build a diverse
and inclusive an equitable Workforce as founded on the
principles of inclusion and Ecuador representation.
I'm a
I'm in.
Our mission is to advance our community's economic
independence through education training employment in
advocacy Emily II our organization has helped thousands of
families to close skills and education gaps and attain
sustainable jobs that break poverty cycles and improve the
overall socio-economic life for families. We believe that
health and wellness is essential to learning and employment
Peoples Gas has been a partner since our Inception as an
employer and training partner people.
tired
Hired hundreds of nlei participants throughout the decades.
We have experience with both new hires as well as having
our alumni who have experienced great careers great pay
throughout Peoples Gas for many years.
when
When people's gas establish their training center in the
little village community La villita, we applied this
accomplishment as it Revitalize the area and bringing jobs
and increase access to capacity development and training
for their incumbent Workforce and the workforce to come as
a community investor and collaborator Peoples Gas has
supported direct programming and social support services.
One of those is our initial training program which focuses
on the renewable energy sector providing participants' with
skills training certifications Energy Efficiency skills,
and of course employment outside of the job training
programs. We have collaborated with Peoples Gas as they
have provided community-at-large with Energy Efficiency
education Del Sol Foster a spirit of employee volunteerism
at all levels, they support their employees as they lend
their time and expertise to charitable causes. We are a
customer of peoples gas. We have a
An increase in great customer service support flexible
payment plan, especially during the winter season and we
have also received advisory information as a customer
regarding safety and energy conservation for our building.
men
Many times we do help to ensure that the community programs
that they have our being able to be disseminated to our
community and our experience Peoples Gas continues to
provide meaningful jobs at above livable wages and career
Pathways in vast and hires from the community and works
with this customers for a safe and customized experience
and provides ongoing education for its customers and
community on energy conservation.
We asked a holistic approach to the evaluation of Peoples
Gas inclusive of its public-private Partnerships
contributions to renewable energy efforts the economy and
their commitment to the community. Thank you again for the
opportunity to share our experience with Peoples Gas.
and
Thank you a lot for your testimony. I want to open it up to
questions from committee members. I did. I apologize. We do
have all the Roman roof Cruise who's with us virtually and
Mr. Hinton. She actually had a question for you and we
skipped her. If you don't mind. I wanted to start with
older woman Cruz and her question alderwoman Cruz.
red hat
thank
Thank you. Madam. Chair. Yes. Let me see something one of
my colleagues, you know was explained to us, you know, the
whole process of a business to earn profits and be
successful. We understand businesses need to make a profit.
We we understand what it means to be for profit which it
means, you know, you want to keep your investors and Gage
and happy but we have a responsibility as other person's to
Advocate and address are our constituents concerns and
struggles and why would understand the the investment and
you know, well this needs to happen to be able to be able
to provide the services that are your customers require. We
also going to have the responsibility to address those
concerns from arrested and say walking into our offices
with their bills and their hands and asking us. Is there
something for me?
Can you help?
Can you help me I can pay for this. So because we have this
opportunity and what is the plan so I know there are a lot
of different programs that you know, one of the speakers to
a girl named talked about. You know, what the Northwest
Center does for residence for low income but now addressing
how much is this going to be as Investments going to be how
much this is going to increase those rate? What is the
plan? Is there a plan?
sad to have
Said to help those low-income families and if it is, do you
have an actual plan the breakdown to help is going to be
for how long this is going to be happening?
The cruise I appreciate the question and I would say a
couple things in terms of what you asked reiterate his
partner this rate filing. We made a we have made a request
before the commission that looks at specifically those who
qualify as low income and how potentially they could have
essentially A reduced customer charge is part of that bill
until that re-filing goes into great detail in terms of how
that could potentially be structured and would be different
than what is currently set up work for our customers
ultimately to cook the commission is going to make a
determination on if they accept that proposal or not be on
that, you know, we continue to want to work with all our
customers and in all out a person's offices in terms of
making sure your constituents have information about funds
available to them today and those funds are many into the
stand
Then if a customer doesn't qualify for some of the
government programs and may qualify for a program that we
run with shareholder dollars through each other warm until
ultimately if you don't have what you need, we want to work
with all of the automatic offices across the city to make
sure that your constituents have the information they need
to understand what they may qualify for or even if they are
not technically a low income but they're struggling to pay
their bills There's an opportunity to get on a budget plan
it so ultimately it help for customers to call us so that
we can understand their specific situation and how we can
work with them to make sure that they have the services
they needed. They have the energy they need it as we enter
this new winter season.
I like and I thank you for it for that answer but it
wouldn't understand. There are the friend programs
available for for low-income residents there where I'm
asking more is if you are ready proposing, what are we
going to be those increases that is also a henna hand with
a pulse of how the help is going to be allocated for
low-income families will be more of a proactive in the
show. This is what would look like. This is what people's
guesses come committing to this is the dollar amount that
we would like to you know, commitment to the residents of
Chicago because we understand the knee is there. So again,
it's more of you know, you already proposed in what is
going to be chained.
in
you know in
You know ende.
You know and the investment needs to be done for this but we
also want to see what is your commitment dollar amount for
to help those residents with the increases happy to follow
back. I will say, you know, in terms of the share the
warmth program that I mention we've funded that program
over the years earlier this year. We committed $5000000 to
that program and we can certainly follow up in terms of pay
as we move forward or what those commitments might look
like.
Thank you.
thank
Thank you. All Roman Cruz going to start off with Alderman
Conway. And anyone else who wants to be on Stack Martin
laspada for our current panelist ottoman Conway.
If I could pick a running theme from all of your testimony,
it seemed to be to me that if if Peoples Gas doesn't get
its record rate rate hike they're going to cut jobs and
Community Support instead of seemingly jeopardizing their
six-year long streak of record profits. So our constituents
come to us and ask us why I should late fees in Englewood
in communities across the South and West sides pay for that
increase instead of shareholders. What do you think? We
should say and it's really probably more directed at mr.
Carter and Miss Prince happy is probably better folks
direct that towards
Well, we all have late fees and whether it's from Peoples
Gas or any other field that we have.
As far as the record profit thing, you know, I'm here to
support the workers of Peoples Gas the employees to
represent the 940 sat to a member of to make sure that we
continue to have safe and reliable jobs and provide for the
citizen, Chicago.
You know I Deco mr. Carter, you know, I don't know what the
late fees are. I don't know what the the the we're
concerned with putting people to work with and that's what
this program has done. We put record numbers of people to
work and our our our figures in the city of Chicago for
people that make up minority populations are are fairly
good there high and that's what we're concerned about is
putting those people to work.
and
And I don't cry over spilled any bed in middle. I asked a
question such a way that was not going to have a good
answer of course, but but that is that you know, that is be
concerned that seeing the correlation of of not getting the
record rate hike specially after such a string of success
necessarily leads to to job loss. I've got a just on that
line of questioning before we go to alderan Martin just a
follow-up question and also a statement. I know we keep
bobbing around your head all around Martin, by the way.
I'm a
It's a thank you all for being here and I just want to say
we really appreciate the work that you do and when what
you're here representing just to be clear right Peoples.
Gas is a great asset to our city. Like we know that right
the jobs the service. Is there a great Community partner.
This isn't a hearing on whether Peoples Gas is a good
company. They're good company right weekly appreciate all
the benefits and we appreciate you guys here to speak to it
and told her my Conway's point though and even older woman
cruises point. We still have a balance a trail like we you
guys have a balance rights present hidden, you got to
balance. Your shareholders are constituents are
shareholders. So along the jobs. Peace knowing what a
significant employer.
peep
people
Peoples Gas is and you're going to notice a theme to my
questions here. What is Peoples Gas doing to prepare your
Workforce for clean energy jobs in the future and I say
this particular mystery Louis like you mentioned something
I know is your company that you're doing in this isn't
Peoples Gas. But when I asked that question to its present
heading about like could this infrastructure be used for
other things right like his again if we're thinking about
collectively what is good for everybody and you mentioned
right geothermal things. So just along those lines ways.
You can speak from the workforce perspective from the
laborers. What are some of the things that you guys are
doing or working with Peoples Gas to do or would like to do
to help prepare that work for us for what's coming next and
anyone can answer.
I can I can quickly speak that we and down in Springfield
were working on a bill right now that Peoples Gas will be a
part of to increase geothermal throughout the city. There's
going to be a pilot program and we're still working on that
and I know Peoples Gas is involved in that we're working
with ICC on that it's a work in progress, but it's it's
coming along and that's one thing that Peoples Gas has
partnered with us on is that piece of legislation regarding
geothermal it be lovely when if you guys have any giraffes
or information to send that to us and we'd love to
distribute a to the committee. We have not worked directly
with Peoples Gas as of yet. I just
who's the
Who's on the company about a week ago and the geothermal are
you hiring? Yes. Absolutely. We have we have targeted. We
are the probably the only minority geothermal company in
the United States there in and it's a new technology and
it's something that we feel it in our development. You're
going to be very important down the law enacted in working
with Peoples Gas. We've already we've known that their
laterals in their piping and all of that infrastructure
that they're putting in it will be systemic to what we're
doing. So we feel that a collaborative effort from a
minority perspective not will only yield jobs. But of the
Year mine or your jobs for minority new jobs for minorities
in the field in that field as well because there's a
there's a very few even in pipe construction that that's
that works in that field with
they
those
That was very few minorities. And there is almost zero
minorities in the geothermal aspect of it. So
American employee of Peoples Gas and and representative of
the Union were constantly been trained. We have a Technical
Training Center that then she spoke off and we're always
constantly been trying to up-to-date new technologies to
a
Prepare our employees in the membership with whatever needs
to be done that we could we can do to it to him to change
that the infrastructure possible. Thank you.
I have thanks Jerry. I just wanted to add we rely on
working directly with employers to ensure our community is
ahead of the game. And so whether I need he had training
program they've been actively involved in ensuring the
curriculum is is taking a look on the future. So in that
program, we're looking at the energy energy areas of water
of air of gas and electrification as well. So they're very
much a partner in ensuring that individuals will have
absolutely no experience whatsoever in the sector are
gaining not only immediate skills, but more importantly
that of the future so I would definitely say they are
ensuring that committee members have no experience and not
a whole lot of
preview
Previous education are receiving a comprehensive idea of
what the future holds for that industry in general. Thank
you for that. Older. Men Martin followed by Alderman the
spotted one follow-up question to your line of questioning
chair. I was curious. So maybe I'll direct this initially
Dentistry Lewis in terms of geothermal infrastructure. Not
something that I'm especially familiar with him. Sure. I'm
not alone on Council very excited about the pilot. Look
forward to seeing some more information coming through the
chair. Is it possible to do geothermal without natural gas
in new construction say with an electric heat pump. It is
possible. It is possible to do it without it. But I believe
that there are intricacies that that you need because of
either before to set up for the future transition or the
setup for the the structure. Like you said, the
infrastructure is dilapidating at this point and that's
similar infrastructure.
Nepali pipes and things of that nature or systemic to the
geothermal as well as so we think that collaborative of
doing that change because unfortunately geothermal is going
into a HV AC system is very expensive putting a putting a
unit in a house is I want to say triple of the price of
exchanging that you but with the with the with the gas with
natural gas it's that isn't but that info
trucks
structure down the road is
Structure down the road is very important that is done the
right way and make it there could be a parallel process
that goes along for the future later on are there with what
condition coming out of Springfield. Is it mandated or
otherwise plan to pair geothermal exclusively with gas?
I do.
I don't think it's no it's not mandated. It is not
something that's mandated. It's going to take a few Minds a
few Engineers to truly understand what that looks like
because in our new development it's easier to do but in
existing development in that transitional development. It's
a lot harder and it's understanding the engineering aspect
of it because over 50% of our engineers in the economy
today don't believe in geothermal. I had a guy tell me that
you you know, you put in these cores down 500 ft what's
going to happen to the earth's core is going to collapse,
you know, so we tweet you don't least we're still dealing
with those those are various issues that that we need to
understand that parallel of natural gas and and geothermal
just reiterate. I think I threw the chair any information
you have about the program including on top of what
Band-Aid
Mandator envisioned by Springfield cost considerations in
terms of gas electric water heaters other things along
those lines can be very helpful for us both in terms of new
construction as well as existing construction depending on
the scope of what's indigent.
thank
Thank you. I'll bring Martin ottoman laspada. Thank you so
much. I mean piggybacking off those points. I feel like
we're not giving enough credit to the work that this panel
is already done on thermal energy networks that the bill
that you all are working on is fantastic. I was informed
that we've already won a funding from the US Department of
energy for a thermal Network pilot in Chicago since
exciting to follow up on I mean, the the future is coming
and already here. So I'm really grateful for that. And for
the work that you all are doing on this front. I did have a
couple questions. So you were talking about the word Local
150 does with the system administration program and I've
been wanting to understand that little bit better for a
while what when I look at that happening along friends like
Milwaukee Avenue in my board. What is the work that local
150 members are doing how much of that work is local 150
members versus non-union contractors. That might be a
difficult.
question a little bit from
Question a little bit for me to answer. I can answer what
we do but I don't know. How much is a contractor you might
be able to answer that a little better than me versus leave
until I mean then maybe what what you all do and you talk
about that being the largest almost chunk of work for local
150. Yeah. How many hours does that represent for local?
150 m m I can look that up for you and I will get that
that's a chair but I will look that up for you. But when
you digging I mean, I'm sure you know the work that the
operating engineers do so that it's such a vast project and
it's going on for so long that the man hours have been our
largest man our amount of per year of any other project in
our entire jurisdiction. I will get those man hours for
you. Can you also provide to the what what number of those
hours are our regular time versus overtime hours? Yes, I
can and I was just curious as we think about these future
spaces. We're going to be operating in.
turn
Does Local 150 currently offer apprenticeships related to
Thermal and hydrogen? Yes, we are understanding were one of
the few geothermal training facilities in the country.
We've been trying to get extra cramps because of that with
President Biden's grants that have recently come out. We're
getting more and more grants applying for them. Anyway, we
have an entire portion of our
Fuccillo
facility dedicated the
Facility dedicated to that to geothermal specifically so
it's kind of it's a new it's a fascinating New Field and
we're looking forward to keep training people on it direct
follow-up. If it if you don't mind. I wish you were working
on the trainees. I know one of the challenges that we have
a local 150 as you employ a lot of people but not a lot of
Chicagoans necessarily. So wondering if there are any plans
to specifically make sure that there are opportunities for
this new training facility for people who reside in
Chicago. So we have hired a new Outreach coordinator to
work on that specifically. We've been reaching out to high
schools to to get kids that are younger into the trays in
interested in the trades. We do regular field trip start
training facility including the geothermal.
program
Program that we offer so that I mean, you know, they're
high school students now, but hopefully in a few years
they'll they'll be in apprenticeship and we we work on
pre-apprenticeship programs with these children children
and young adults to get them up to our standard of where
they can start applying for our benefit program. My only
best thing was for Mastercard or I mean your comments on
decarbonization while this hearing isn't about
decarbonization while ottoman Conway's resolution to the
best of my Wii
doesn't mention
Doesn't mention decarbonization I'm happy for us to have
this conversation at a later date. I I will say is you talk
about systems replacement how that impacts renters as
someone who just moved into a two-flat and is going to be
doing those system improvements. I'm having to be the
guinea pig for the comedian report back on my personal
experiences on how that impacts rents in the building. I
annoying my wife and I probably doesn't but I also wanted
to see if you talked about who is left paying for the
current system that feels like the question that I heard
ottoman Martin a couple times and I feel like you asked it
eloquently a couple different ways. I was dumbfounded to
hear the answer, but I'm sure it's a point that will be
following up with Peoples Gas cuz the last thing that we
want to see in the city is for low-income communities of
color to be even more greatly burdened with their energy
costs. Frankly. I
I think that's part of what prompted this meeting today. So
I am grateful for you raising the issue.
You're welcome. After I think that it it wasn't packed all
communities, you know, not just the black and brown
communities, but you know, we're all in this together and I
think that week we should find a way to to to make things,
you know a possible for everyone.
a certain
I certainly agree but I I would say and I hope you would
agree that Equity demands that we think critically about
those who are most greatly burdened by either. Our existing
energy needs are the ones to come. So I just appreciate
your points. Thank you. Thank you Tara. Fantastic. Thank
you. Thank you to our panelists will let you return to your
just as the same but more comfortable seats and we're going
to welcome our next set up and so up next if we can have
Yvonne Abe Christy and Reverend Johnson.
Welcome.
Thank you.
Thank you all.
thank you all for
Thank you all for being with us today and we are going to
start with testimony from his on.
thank
Thank you for percent Haden B Nelson and Alderman Conway
and other members of the committee and Environmental
Protection and energy my name is he born requa and I am
Outreach director for the citizens Utility Board. We're a
nonprofit Watchdog for consumers utility customers. We are
challenging The Peoples Gas rate hike the citizens Utility
Board has deep concerns that wild customers suffer in a
hidden affordability crisis Peoples Gas has strict than six
straight years of record profits. And now I'm pushing for a
state-record 402 million rate hike gets the largest
recorded in Illinois history. It will intensify a crisis of
soaring heating cost that has been ongoing for about a
decade. The crisis is fueled by Peoples Gas Reckless
spending and is managed over budget and behind schedule by
blind replacement program. In fact Peoples Gas.
cast
customer
Customers now pay an average of nearly $50 each month in
fixed fees and this is even before they use any gas.
It's all rich directory Cub. I've heard from a lot of
Chicagoans overwhelmed by their bills. Some customers are
forced to choose between keeping enough food on their
tables and keeping the heat on nobody should have to make
this Choice specially not from a company rolly name record
profits cuz it happened keep on customers include the
customer charge of more than $30 a month. And another fee
that has added the Bessemer Spain the qualified
infrastructure plans work with charge. That's a fee that
Peoples Gas lobbied for in Springfield decade ago to help
cover for dysfunctional pipeline program as it stands. Now
the projected cost for the program have skyrocketed from 2
billion dollars to His Highest 11 billion and it'll take
another unbearable 25 additional years to complete the
quest church allow the company to rapidly increased bills
without having to go through an 11-month Ray case. It's
taking a toll on customers.
in
and
And there are really alarming signs that a large number of
people can't afford their gas bills in September about 15
Peoples Gas customers were more than 30 days behind on
their Bells by a total of nearly 92 million the worst among
major Utilities in Illinois even more R Us.
Leslie
Is leafy's sadly the utility has profited off our
affordability prop problem making millions on those late
fees and some historically disadvantaged and black and
brown communities about 30 to 50% of Peoples Gas customers
are struggling to afford their Keating cost. The average
that is hundreds of dollars in a lot of neighborhoods and
in Englewood it approaches $1,000.
and
And now people's gastritis to make a terrible situation
even worse with the largest wreck again alone on History.
The $400 million increase will race the delivery part the
delivery part of the Bell. That's what we pay Peoples Gas
to get the fuel door homes by $11.83 a month or about $142
a year. The company has served the public with a lot of
misinformation about this rate hike so I would like to take
this opportunity to set the record straight Peoples Gas
says, he hasn't filed a rape case in nine years that's
misleading. In fact Peoples Gas customers have actually
answered monthly rate hikes. Thanks to the Quick Charge 10
years ago supporters of the legislation set the charge will
cost only about a dollar and $0.14 a month. But by this
year the church has ballooned to $17 a month for the
average customer. So Peoples Gas the company that says and
that he hasn't
hiking years at
Hiking years actually engineer monthly rate hikes thank
goodness. Equip is due to sunset at the end of this year
because it has enabled companies to rapidly increase the
rate based on which their profits Peoples Gas has the right
type will have no impact on overall Bells because the
prices for gas have come down that's misleading. First of
all, the status quo is nothing to brag about Peoples Gas is
on a portable and unsustainable as it is. We are in a
crisis s to drop in prices offered Chicago is a real
opportunity to save money, but our Peoples Gas rate hike
Will Roberts of savings, where do after two people when
their self Skydive rocketing market prices. Finally thank
goodness. Supply prices have come down. But in this both of
us a few Market will know they will go up again. In fact
the prices for Peoples Gas. It's up by 15% from last month.
special
Especially with world events as they are and wouldn't
Supply prices and do Spike again that will make the impact
of a Peoples Gas rate hike even worse Peoples Gas says the
rate hike is all about safety. That's misleading. The rate
hike isn't about safety. It's about Peoples Gas trying to
protect the record profits what Energy Group the
out-of-state parent company of Peoples Gas open 1.4 billion
in its profits last year and the corporation says the
pipeline replacement program is a major.
prophet
profits
and in their third-quarter earnings call what said that he
plans to keep the profits the plants to keep the program
spending at a Corvette a reckless bass. That will be 280
million a year. Meanwhile, every Outsider review has found
that the program is failing to achieve safety improvements
in proportion to the ambulances has burned. Let me be clear
everybody supports pipeline safety, but we are against
Reckless and irresponsible spending. We're against the
couch and customers the utilities latest Drake hype request
exposes Peoples Gas profit motive. For example, the utility
wants to secure an outrageous profit for rate for its
shareholders of nearly 10% It also wants customers to cover
millions of dollars in bonuses for executives to reach
financial goals that have absolutely no benefit for
customers.
listen
You shouldn't have asked the comedian Environmental
Protection and energy to join customers in pushing the
owner Commerce Commission to hold people accountable in the
sun just for a k*** is climate change a person's and our
bills got hired. We cannot afford to continue bailing out
Peoples Gas and it's outdated and expensive fossil fuel
system. Thank you. Thank you. Miss. Seroquel will now hear
from apes car with the, Illinois.
can
interest research group
Good afternoon. I was going to take chairperson hadn't but
she's out on a real member of the committee. Thank you for
the opportunity to testify today. My name is Avis car in
the director of Illinois purg since 2017. I've Watchdog
Peoples Gas and its pipe replacement program that includes
co-authoring in-depth report in 2019. We heard earlier
about the resolution passed in this committee and the full
City Council in 2020 as last time I was here as well and
building a coalition of 50 organizations to end the state
to IP law.
I want a
I want to thank all the person Conway for bring this
resolution for it and bring him for Council. That's what I
think Mayor Johnson and his administration for their
strong. Advocacy in the rape case. I'm going to make sure
the committee understands that the city is a party in the
rape case and they've been doing really great work
advocating on behalf Chicago resident and taking many of
similar positions as you'll hear from me myself and my
colleagues I submitted more detailed written testimony. I'm
going to summarize and I have a lot to say about this
topic, but I'm going to focus my comments today just on the
pipe replacement program and I have three key takeaways
first is the Peoples Gas Pipe replacement program is the
primary driver of the record rate hike request. It's also
the primary driver six years of record profits and without
reform now.
going to
Going to lead to more rate hikes in the years to come to
the program is a failure on its own terms after years of
work and billions of dollars spent every outside expert
review has found that the program is not achieving its
safety objectives and finally to speak locally. Not only is
it a bad program? They're screwing it up whether it's a bun
11 billion dollar price tag or 22 consecutive quarters of
failing to hit pipeline retirement targets as Auditors
wrote in 2015 the management program quote fall short of
good utility practice.
So I appreciate the committee holding this hearing and I
urge you to join community members Advocates the office of
Attorney General rule the Johnson Administration and
calling on the Illinois Commerce Commission to rain in this
rate hike and the pipe replacement program. That's fueling
it. That's one issue a challenge to the committee. Please
don't make this a one-and-done you're at the beginning of a
four-year term. Let's use this committee and its tools for
transparency and accountability and reform the problems
you're going to hear about and you have heard about today.
They're not going to go away after this rate hike is
decided in two weeks. And unfortunately, I believe the
problems are only going to get worse before they get
better. So we need leadership and I call in this committee
to be the leaders the Chicago needs three key points first
that the program is driving record.
pause
prophets in the wreck
Profits interest rate hike. What is the primary driver the
400 million dollar rate hike request more than half of that
request is too is due to spending on the program over the
past decade and about 12 million more accounts for spending
a planning to do next year. He concept you need to
understand about utilities. And is that as an 8 utility
spends more on its infrastructure are rates go up and its
ability to profit goes up. Now that's an idea make is
intended to ensure adequate investment for safe and
reliable service, but left unchecked it can lead to its
known as gold plating that is spending that boost profits
boots are eight, but does not boost value for customers and
the public and that's exactly what's Happening Here Peoples
Gas is proposing to continue spending at the same Pace that
it's been going to last decades. And again, that means
without reform this program will lead to Future frequent
rate hikes, and as other person Conway mentioned earlier on
earnings calls with Wall Street and
wake
Whack the executive chairman has stated that they may just
start filing annual rate hikes to keep up with a spending
on the program.
as
As we forgot today, the program is also the primary driver
of six consecutive years of record-breaking profits topped
out at 208 million dollars last year to the current rate
hike proposal. The company's authorized annual profits
could jumped over three hundred million dollars starting
next year.
any
and you
And you heard justifications for this spending these rate
hikes earlier. And in theory, those justifications could be
accurate. You could justify these types of rate hikes if
the underlined program was necessary was effective and was
officially accomplishing his goals, but that's not the case
on unfortunately opposites the case. So that's my second up
when I want to come to that. The pipeline replacement
program is not achieving its Public Safety objective. And I
also want to be very clear aging iron pipes and The Peoples
Gas system pose a safety risk to Chicago. It's critical
that this risk be mitigated. The pipeline replacement
program is not doing that multiple outside expert reviews
have concluded that the pipe replacement program is not
reducing risk in any proportion to the billions of dollars
spent. There's multiple examples of this in my written test
money aside to three examples of adjusted highlight one in
the current rice case and engineering
donkey
document
Documented but over the last decade not only have a great
snack on down they've actually increased and that includes
for Lee crates tied to what's known as Lee chrome pipe,
which is a very specific type of pipe for this program is
supposed to be addressing.
you made
You may be wondering why.
You may be wondering why there's a big complex problems
program. So there's multiple reasons but one of the biggest
reasons I would say that the program is failing that to
reduce risk is cuz that's not what it's designed to do.
It's instead prioritizing a broad system overhaul.
So one way of understanding the impact of this overhaul work
versus the risk reduction work is the amount of additional
work. It adds the program. So the beginning of this year
Peoples Gas reported that had about fifteen hundred miles
of pipe left her place in through this program over time
over four hundred of those miles more than a quarter. We're
not miles that are at high risk of failure there low
pressure pipes are low-risk pipes and that's a significant
amount of work that's tied into this program and diluting
its focus on risk reduction.
so
So that brings me my third point the design of the
program's bad enough, but on top of that it's being
mismanaged. So in 2015 Liberty Auditors concluded I'm going
to paraphrase hear that management did not understand and
could not explain why the program works to me how much the
program would cost how long it would take to complete and
why wasn't achieving its objective these fundamental
project management problems were not addressed at the
conclusion of the audit and still persist here. Just two
examples you've heard some of this already. I went Peoples
Gas first proposed the program in 2007. The cost estimate
was 1.4 billion dollars. They re proposed in 2009 at that
point was 2.5 billion dollars between 2012 and 2015
estimates climbed from 4 billion a billion and the last
estimate for 2015 included a range of estimates, including
one up to 11 billion dollars.
set my
Just one example. Another is how the program is perennially
behind schedule and over budget. So since 2018 the company
has been filing quarterly reports on a variety of data
points according to those reports. The program has fallen
short of its year-to-date pipe retirement goals every
single quarter 22 consecutive quarters over the same. The
program has been over budget every year and I calculate
that looking at the total cost of the program and divided
by the number of miles retired. So if you look at the cost
of the whole program per mile Piper tired, it's been over
budget every year and it's over budget half way through
this year.
So I will wrap up there. I want to thank again the
committee for the time today. I encourage you to
communicate your concerns with the commission as soon as
possible and are they said major Dakshin? I really do hope
that the committee continues to look at this issue. We do
need leaders ready to dig in and fix problems as a big
complicated problem. So, I hope you leaning in with that. I
will thank you again. Be happy to answer any questions.
Thank you for your testimony. We will now hear from
Christy.
thank
Thank you and good afternoon chair and all their persons and
thank you for having me today and thanks to all of the
other speakers who came out today. My name is Christi
Hicks. I am a senior director and Lead counsel for
environmental defense fund. We are an environmental
nonprofit organization. And we believe that access to clean
affordable energy that does not worsen climate change is a
basic human right for every single person.
I'm here today to discuss the enormous rate hike that
Peoples Gas is asking the Illinois Commerce Commission to
approve environmental defense fund is an active party in
that ICC proceeding. I personally have been involved in
people's gas rate hike requests for almost 15 years. This
case is different it is worse.
What Peoples Gas is asking for isn't just an unhelpful
investing billions of dollars in infrastructure the props
up fossil fuels at a time. When we know that we must
transition to cleaner energy actively gets in the way of a
better future for all Chicago in it fuels climate change.
It leaks methane and toxic gases into our streets and our
homes and it drains away dollars that could be used for
clean energy instead and speaking of toxic gases a recent
study out of Stanford University shows that natural gas
used in homes also releases.
Benzene a known cancer-causing chemical I encourage Peoples
Gas to read up about that study.
in bed
Investing hundreds of millions more dollars in the gas
system locked in decades of fossil fuel use and waxing
generations of customers into higher rates because of it.
That's because pipelines have an assumed useful life
between 30 and 70 years depending on the pipes because it
is so very expensive to replace those pipes the cost of
doing so are spread out over four decades like taking out a
car loan.
the pie
The pipes only depreciate in value and worth yet customers
cannot get out from under making that payment by Massive by
making these massive new Investments on their captive
customers be half. The company makes a choice for those
customers to continue using gas for as long as that assumed
useful life of the infrastructure the cost and the
emissions from that gas or therefore locked in for
Generations all of this at a time when we know that fossil
fuel use must steeply Decline and in far less than 30 to 70
years Peoples Gas just went on record this morning before
the ICC talking about their pipeline replacement program.
They said that they plan to keep up their pipeline
replacement program until between 2035 and 2040. This is
the program that they testified.
this morning
This morning is what is driving their profits?
she
should
Chicago's climate action plan sets a goal of 62% emissions
reduction by 2040 that's in just 17 years putting in
fossil-fuel pipelines assumed to be in service for 30 to 70
years is grossly misaligned for Chicago schools. Meanwhile
clean energy is becoming increasingly more affordable and
more accessible technology improvements make renewable
energy less expensive by the day and more and more
affordable options are becoming available including
geothermal, which we've been talking about here today.
Massive incentives from the federal government through the
inflation reduction act for homeowners to Electrify
buildings will provide even more funds for customers to
make the switch. But what about those customers who can't
afford to Electrify on their own? Those are the customers
that I am most concerned about?
What?
Were those your rent and they don't have a choice in their
fuel sources because the cost of the gas system aren't
going to go down the Investments that are made today are
locked in. So they're going to be spread out amongst fewer
and fewer customers and the customers who are left on the
system or those of fewer and fewer means without action.
Those customers will pay a larger and larger share of The
Peoples Gas system cost that are going into service today.
Those customers will be stranded.
They're facing can.
They're facing catastrophic disparities today.
custom
Customers in black and brown communities pay a higher
portion of their household income for their energy bills
there the most in debt to their utilities and their debts
are the highest in the city some customers Peoples Gas
bills are higher than their mortgages.
In the rape case, we uncovered even more disturbing
evidence even holding household income constant black and
brown communities are disconnected more often than white
Community utilities don't shut off customers after just a
certain number of dollars behind or a certain number of
Miss payments and said the calculus is different customer
by customer and the use of a black box methodology of risk
ranking methodology that shuts off some customers before
others and the data shows that irrespective of median
household income in a community customers who live in black
and brown communities are shut off earlier by Peoples Gas
between April and November of 2020 to customers and black
brown and Indigenous communities were disconnected at a
rate three times higher than those in white communities
with similar incomes.
The inequities of the gas system are a crisis, but there is
a better path forward every dollar we spend on energy
infrastructure today can get us closer to or further from
our climate inequity goals towards Better or Worse Health
household wealth emissions and climate Peoples. Gas
customers have to be intentional about how they spend every
dollar and the company should be doing the same customers
should not be a piggy bank for Investments That prolong the
life of the system at this Tipping Point of the clean
energy Revolution.
if we're
If we really want to see better results, we need to plan
for the future not continue business as usual. The world is
changing. It is never been more important to protect the
most vulnerable customers. We've got the solutions. Let's
put our money towards cleaner more affordable energy for
all. Thank you.
thank
Thank you Christy her testimony Reverend Johnson pair next.
Thank you to a person hadn't vice-chairperson Knutson
honorable members of the committee.
and
Thank you for this opportunity to speak today and all the
person Conway. Thank you for the resolution. I love him
Veronica Johnson Outreach director for faith in place part
of the Illinois between jobs Coalition and a resident and a
pastor on the southside of Chicago a little bit more about
my background. I have a mechanic's lien.
during the
Hearing degree from the University of Illinois. I work for
Amoco Oil Company years ago left engineering and became
clergy and find it. Very ironic that today. I'm at this
table on the other side of the fossil fuel industry that
some say only God and for such a time as this
as a
As a faithful leader, I feel call to with Proverbs 31:8
says what you speak out on behalf of the voiceless and for
the rights of all who are vulnerable.
is
I am here today to represent the hundreds of thousands of
residents on the South and West sides of Chicago who are
struggling to pay Peoples Gas and who don't even know they
need to be represented today. I say this because people
struggle to pay their bills. They feel shame thinking it is
just their personal financial problem. And not only do they
feel shame. They also feel stressed and in Chicago at this
time of the year many of them feel cold because their gas
service is already been disconnected or is that risk of
being disconnected and they became to make choices about
their sheet.
people say
people struggle to
People struggle to pay the gas bill still isolated and what
they think is a personal financial problem, but when
hundreds of thousands of households have the same problem.
It is not a personal problem is a chronic suspect systemic
problem more specifically is an affordability problem
consider this data from Peoples Gas September report to the
ICC and we've heard some of this already that 33 to 46% of
households in the following. Neighborhoods are in Duck to
Peoples Gas Inglewood West Garfield Park South Shore
Chatham Auburn Gresham Woodlawn South Austin, Roseland,
North Kenwood, Oakland and Grand Crossing 33 to 46% of the
households in those communities are in arrears, and that is
only up September.
if
before
Before most people even turned on their gets the average
debt as of September ranges from $600 to $1,000 per
household. And this is at current rates. So in Peoples Gas
says the rate hike
Excuse me.
Wilkie
Will keep bills level compared to last year when the price
of gas pipe is a cold comfort for many in these communities
to add insult to injury Stree to enter injury scuse me. Not
only are these hundreds of thousands of residents in debt
to Peoples Gas, but they are stressed and going to further
that as they are being charged late fees receiving
disconnection notices or already disconnected and here's
more evidence that this is a systemic problem and not a
personal problem according to the same report to the ICC
the amount which is at least 30 days past due to Peoples
Gas is upwards of 92 million dollars as of September 30th,
2023 great greater than significantly larger utilities like
Tom Ed in Nightcore. This is not an individual household or
a personal financial problem. This is a chronic and trench
systemic problem being viewed and treat.
as a person
I have a personal.
I have a personal problem and more specifically as a black
and brown personal problem. Some simply say black people
are not paying their bills. As a matter of fact that
comparison of households that my sister here mentioned in
the same income bracket and majority black and brown
neighborhoods compared to households in majority white
neighborhoods show that almost double the household and
bye-bye munities receive disconnection notices. That is
white Kyurem.
This to assist a systemic issue explained by the concept of
intersectionality a term coined by Kimberly Crenshaw j.d. A
pioneering scholar professor and expert on Race racism and
the law which recognizes that the intersection of
identities for example poor and black and zip code can lead
to an accumulation of effects for black and brown
communities are already hit hardest by a host of
environmental and economic Injustice has so when it comes
to gas bills the compounding socio-economic stressors must
be considered when viewing such data.
call
Poor black households are more likely to have greater
health issues housing issues less access to familial
support higher cost of food medicine and transportation. So
the strain on the dollar in the black household is simply
greater than in the White household. Again. This is not a
black personal problem. This is a systemic problem and
Peoples Gas is simply one of the socio-economic stressors
hitting the black and brown Community the hardest and the
data indeed Bears the South allowing a historic rate hike
for people's gas with tell hundreds of thousands of
residents in the communities on the South and West sides
that they simply need to figure out how to overcome the
multiple complex social economic factors pushing against
them, but they don't even understand in order to have heat.
and hot water this winter be
And hot water this winter these families are getting on
payment plans, which are often also not affordable. They
are receiving disconnection notices possibly for multiple
utilities. They are using unsafe methods to heat their
homes and to cook they are stressed and hurting and they
believe it's just their problem, but we know what Peoples
Gas does not want them to know that it is not just their
problem is a compounded and trench systemic intersectional
problem, but these residents don't know what they don't
know that multiple Neighbors on the same block and on the
next block have the same problem. They don't know that this
is a systemic problem not a personal failure. The question
is will their leaders acknowledge this truth. Tell them the
truth and Advocate on their behalf. And what about Peoples
Gas in the 92 million dollars that they are owned by their
customers.
What?
What's
What families are residents who have suffered from
generations of economic Injustice has struggle once again
to deal with Peoples Gas so they can keep warm this winter
Peoples Gas is simply not struggle. The irony is that while
they are indeed old at least 92 million dollars as of
September 30th when Peoples Gas rights off bad that they
gets attacked that amount onto future bills so that it
doesn't hit their bottom line for most of the past decade
Peoples Gas has earned record profits. They're 200.
8 million dollars in profit in 2022 broke their earning
records for the sixth consecutive year. They build those
profits on the backs of their customers rather than working
to make gas more affordable for its customers and accepting
a smaller profit. Margin Peoples. Gas has been making bills
unaffordable by adding fees and surcharges and now by
asking for this historic great height. So you're after your
customer see bigger bills residents cannot pay see bigger
dad and Peoples Gas shareholders pocket bigger profits
Peoples Gas does not need a historic rate hike a hike that
will hit black and brown communities the hardest this issue
is deep and systemic and it's ironic that residents will
struggle to be warm and will struggle to have hot water
while Peoples Gas is not really struggling at all Leslie.
Let me say that our Coalition is not anti-black business
Peoples Gas should use women and minority business
Enterprise.
tractor
Tractors this is simply an equitable practice that a
utility which has the business of the entire city city
should employ these minority and women-owned businesses
should have a fair percentage of Peoples Gas contracts
regardless of the rate hike this is what is fair. And this
is what it's just as I close. Let me say unequivocally that
the massive debt between the black and brown communities on
the west and south sides of Chicago and Peoples Gas is a
chronic systemic.
shoot
Yes, you did.
Shoe that must be addressed and certainly should not be
exacerbated with the historic rate hike on behalf of
hundreds of thousands of Chicago and who think the debt
their debt to Peoples Gas is their personal problem, but we
know us a systemic problem. I asked you to use your
authority to prevent Peoples Gas from making history with
the greatest rate hike in history compounding an already
bad problem that will hit families when it hurts most in
the dead of winter in Chicago. Again, thank you again for
this opportunity and my thanks to Mary Johnson and his
administration for strong. Advocacy in this rate case.
Thank you. Thank you Reverend Johnson for your testimony.
Alright, we're going to open this up to questions were
going to start with cancer Alderman Conway. And then I've
got Alderman Villegas Martin signature Lopez and Tamara
Johnson want to thank you specifically for your comments as
What?
what most concerns me about the the rate increase is how it
will lead to the dead increase in some of our and some of
our poorest communities. So thank you for that. Now I asked
several of the proponents of the of the rate hikes some
some hard questions. So I certainly as advocates have some
some hard questions for you as well miss miss Ricky.
So your Peoples Gas initially testified that they haven't
asked for a rate increase and nine years you countered with
what they've done it through the quip instead. But if you
include that then it's not really a a 402 million dollar
rate increase, you know, so, how do we how do we go go
about separating that out?
But we are a reference to quit because that is something
that has been affecting our customers and if they argued
that they have not in your ass for a rate hike in the past
nine years that is true. They haven't gone through an
11-month for a case, but they have a says those additional
fees to the customers.
I saw.
I saw you mistress car. I saw you not and I thought you
might have something to add to that. Yes, I think the
current rate hike record and Gas Utilities about 240
million dollars that were carrying over. I think it's
around 207 million dollars and then on top of that with
this a proposed 194 million of the nonquitt. So yes, it
wouldn't in one Fell Swoop be the biggest rate hike but it
would be pretty massive rate hike and I think the
affordability problems we've been experiencing in Chicago
attached to that and to end a follow-up question for you
mister scar is so you mentioned
Prince
And slightly accuse Peoples Gas of gold plating to use your
words, which is presumably has something to do with
replacing pipes that don't need to be replaced. It sounded
like you were intimating that but yeah, it's pretty
uncontroverted that the that the pipe system of Peoples Gas
was old and still is old. So how you know, how do you go
about how do you go about explaining that take me to the
question first? I say as a regulated monopolies steak.
Random Monopoly Peoples Gas has a service obligation to
provide safe and affordable reliable service to the fact
that they still have pipes in the ground from the
nineteenth Century as they claim is choking. What do they
been doing for the past hundred years not maintaining their
system. We're in this position because they have not
maintained their system over time and I've known since
1981, but I need to run a dedicated program to Target
specific subset of iron pipes.
how to
How to address the risks posed by those iron pipes. So the
risk is real we need to address it and yes, I believe that
the program that they're running is failing to address that
risk because they're doing a lot more is that there's a lot
of different scope elements in the program and this isn't
just my finding. This is no visible pointed out by Auditors
another parties. And so that makes me a site to the 2020
engineering study which said the other programs not keeping
up with pipeline failures, especially over the last decade.
the decade of the program
The decade of the program they've done all this work, but
the failure rates are not going down and that engineering
study said they need to speed up the work. They need to do
more to reduce the risk. And I agree with that. They need
to do more to reduce the risk. They're not they didn't
respond to that finding from the engineering study by
changing their program at all. They said Well, yeah, if we
speed up our program as it's currently done, it would be
completely unmanageable in Cleveland be unaffordable and
that's true, but they don't consider the option of changing
their program to be more focused on reducing risk. What
they're trying to do is overhaul their system from low to
medium pressure that me and vacuum have its own benefits.
It does not have benefits specific to reducing the risk of
pipeline failures and I don't think that the record shows
that combining these programs together program combining
his efforts together has not resulted and addressing the
rest away. We all agree that should be addressed.
I don't have no for the question.
thank
Thank you ottoman Conway Alderman Villegas.
make a
Thank you madam chair. I wanted to talk about the
infrastructure portion of it.
When were talking about that infrastructure that you don't
see both of us when it's buried with your with your
analysis how far off was Peoples Gas initial initial a
quote verses what you're seeing now? Cuz you said that
there was a report that said that Peoples Gas their
programmers are over budget and behind schedule as it was
that address to Stars. Yes. Thank you for the question.
Yes, that's analysis. I've done of their quarterly reports.
I don't have all the figures that had but what I do is look
at their golden actuals 4 miles of pipe retired, which is
what we're trying to do here right is get the old aging
pipes out of the system.
an
And what quarter by quarter for year-to-date to some
individual quarters, they may have liked hit their
quarterly goals, but year-to-date they've never caught up
they've never been that way since 2018. They've never hit
their goals for pipeline retirement. And the other thing I
do is I take the total cost of the program so they program
has many scope elements, but I think it's in a fair
question to say how much money we spending overall and how
many miles of pipe a return cuz you didn't hear them talk
about medium pressure. You heard them talk about the risky
pipes in the program and that's what needs to be addressed.
So if you divide the overall cost of the program not by the
miles of pipe retired and compare what they budgeted for
him, but they said they would do
What the actual?
What they actually do.
What they actually dude it's been over budget every year
since this quarterly reporting started and through the
first half of this year. It's over budget does a retiree
the pipe does it also include the restoration component
Paving sidewalks Etc. And then as we're talking about
transitioning is it cheaper for electricity vs. Natural
gas? Yes, there are multiple studies out there that show
that single family homes in Chicago and I believe I'm not
as familiar with it, but even multi-unit homes, if they
make the transition, they can save tens of thousands of
dollars over the coming decades and that's not necessarily
true in every jurisdiction. There's some places like
California has big expectations goals is grappling a little
bit with the economics of it here in Chicago. It's not a
it's not a controversial decision because of Peoples Gas
rates are so high and the cost of using gas is so high.
There are great economic benefits for folks who do convert
so I
To electricity and so you know right now we've got what I
would say is an unplanned transition. We've got the federal
government putting tons of money and to supporting folks
feel like if I I started to do that in my household, I
replace my stove. I just replaced my water heater this
year. We're doing it household by household and that's
going to be a problem long term if we keep doing it and if
he can Onyx kind of invite people to do it if people got
the means to do or like a what am I doing here? Of course.
To go all electric.
To go all electric that's going to be the scenario in which
we see this risk of leaving people behind and that's not
what we're calling for. We want to manage the transition.
This is not something is going to happen overnight or not.
Trying to shut people down tomorrow in fire. All their
workers is going to happen over decades and we need
thoughtful policy to do that. We don't have an exact
roadmap, but we do know some of the policy tools we can
employ and the last one I say on this is the man as Christy
was saying earlier spending tons of money on what I would
deem is unnecessary work. Some of the work is necessary to
reduce that risk with some of its not spending billions of
dollars on unnecessary work makes that transition so much
harder and increases the risk for those are to be left on
the gas system. Their bills are going to be really in pain
and no savings that you're talkin about the tens of
thousands of dollars of Sadie's a debt taken into account
where the house has two to go from gas electricity cuz
there's a cost associated with that. They're absolutely
associated with a
associated with that. Yes. So one thing to keep in mind is
that most people are not going to just throw out their gas
boiler when it has years of life left on it. That's why I
haven't replaced my gas boiler broke down a couple winners
go I wanted to Electrify but I didn't have the time is
January. I bought a new gas boilers. I'm going to be on the
gas system for a while longer. So there are costs but I
think of you have to think about it is are they going to
buy a heat pump instead of a gas boiler? Not just the cost
of the heat pump itself.
compared to the
Compared to the alternative and especially since a heat pump
also is both an air conditioner and heater. So there are
costs associated with replacing appliances, but they're
also you have to compare that to the alternative of buying
a new gas Appliance there also cost for many households of
updating their electrical system. I had to do this when I
bought my stove I had to rewire and my kitchen a little bit
I had to I didn't have any room in my panel. So there are
costs associated with that as well and the study showed
despite all that. Yes, people can save money over time now
that you're not everybody is going to have a household
there where they can make those upfront Investments and
that's why we need to approach this not household by
household but as a city and as a community so that we find
the resources to support all neighborhood's having the
ability to do those upgrades and and make this transition
work question. But I'm sure it's around one of those
resources were where you get those resources from. Well,
there's a ton coming in from the B ministration in the
employee.
production
Reduction act there are big grants that are coming in that
are rebates tax incentives. I'm going to take advantage of
a tax incentive for my heat pump water heater. There are
competitive grants. This city is actively going after I
know from working with them on them to help with low-income
communities specifically with solar and some of those
electrical upgrades. It's not going to be enough but it's
also we're not going to have to do this whole transition
next year next 5 years or 10 years. So we are going to take
Federal resources.
take
text
Texas State resources to make this work I can appreciate
it. Thank you.
and
Thank you, Lorraine Davis Alderman Martin followed by
Alderman 6 or a little past and all the woman Tavares major
really appreciated the line of questioning from Alderman
Vegas including at the end because he's walking out he'll
recall that we did a hearing recently about the inflation
reduction act to talk about some of these items. So I think
are our chief sustainability officer in our soon-to-be
re-establish Department of environment will be taking the
lead here and I think that you identify a lot of important
things which is the ways in which we can leverage our
access to these government funds through the IRA things,
like recouping Capital costs upwards of 30% in ways that
other cities are starting to look at already like New York
City called woman had injured woman hadn't mentioned during
that hearing other work that their comptroller Brad Lander
is doing with regard to solar in particular to make this
something that's available to everybody regardless of your
means. And so I think
that's going to
That's going to be something dead. We will be grappling with
in a good way. So my one question as a follow-up for mr.
Scar understand things correctly, obviously safety and
reliability. We're all in agreement that those are
important things to that should be The Guiding Light for
the modernization work that's underway, but that some of
the proposed I'm writing response would go towards things
like pressure increasing pressure if I understood I was
wondering if you could speak a little bit more to why
increasing pressure could be helpful. And then if there are
any other notable aspects of where that rate increased
funding would go that might be a nice to have or a fine
thing John early but not a need to have not something that
goes directly towards safety and reliability. Thank you for
the question. I should start by saying I'm not an engineer.
I've just
by the time
a lot of time looking at other people's reports on this
topic. So older gas systems tend to be operated a lower
pressure while more Modern Gas Distribution Systems tend to
operate a medium pressure. And that's just like your your
tire in your bike tires your car tires. It's the pounds per
square inch that the gas is moving through the pipes and
it's been a long-term goal of Peoples Gas to update from
low to medium pressure. So this will be found in the audit
findings in 1988 and
can
90
94 when Auditors found that they were actually failing to
run a dedicated program back then just like has been
recommended in the 1980 was one study and instead work, you
know replacing a tree spots where they're doing. So as part
of this effort upgrade to medium pressure again, I
understand there are some operational benefits for money a
medium pressure system versus a low pressure system, but we
have to distinguish between those types of benefits and the
risks posed by aging iron pipes leaking breaking cracking.
Those are two different things and we got a program that
kind of bushes them all together and I believe dilutes the
effectiveness of addressing that risk, which I think is
very very important and I'm very concerned that we have a
program that's not effectively addressing that so other
things in the rare case of maybe Christy may be able to
help me out on this Thursday, but that's all just within
the pipeline replacement program. So the the bulk of the
rest of the rate hike is for
that are not related to the type of placement program their
all their infrastructure Investments when things we've
challenged in the rape case is the amount of spending to
redo some of the shop somewhere where the staff work now to
be clear. We don't want to have a staff working in bad
conditions, but we'd argued that they hadn't done enough to
justify how repairs for example or other different means
they could take to address the problems with your real. So
that's been something we've challenged in the rate hike and
I don't know if you can
number if there's other things
Number if there's other things in terms of capital spending
should highlight a few of the other high-level things that
that are included in the rape case include their legal
expenses to the fourth of a case, which are in the millions
of dollars incentive compensation for their their
highest-paid Executives as you heard earlier and I do just
want to emphasize what you said just short while ago that
you know, it's not that we are saying no spending for
safety and reliability. What we're asking for is to
right-size their Investments understanding that the world
is changing and just as any prudent business looks at the
landscape, they look at the markets. They look at their
risks and they analyzed you know, what's coming down the
pipe. What should I be considering and instead they're
they're asking for more of exactly what they have been
doing rather than considering what are different things we
could be doing just as we heard the the folks on the last
panel talking.
are there
there's
They're starting to train their workers for geothermal. You
know, they are looking towards the future and we are asking
that Peoples Gas do the same.
pick
take a
Take a trip. That's it.
Ace Hardware in Norton Ottoman seat chair Lopez photo by a
fellow by automatic virus
thing
thank
Thank you. Thank you, sir. And thank you for the finalists
for the information.
Been inactive for to actually I think you're leaning on the
light switch.
No.
The energy Wars continue. Alright, I'll run to kilopascals.
Thank you.
I got.
I got a few follow-up questions, especially around the
infrastructure.
cost anything but one of the fundamental questions that are
released from several of the panel is is that he's
investing in the future rather than investing with testing
in a few
in a system that he's no longer in line with the needs and
the challenges ahead. So could you maybe expand a little
bit more on that? I think that he's an adequate
representation, especially when the conversation Castle
rounding about the critical nature of these investment. I
do think it is important that we understand the
implications as well as the cars.
prices of such a
process of searching
Prices of such Investments specially has again and we can
talk about the infrastructure Investments. I made a
recommendation by your house.
Yeah, thank you for that question. So there's actually a
number of really great Alternatives available for
individuals to switch to clean energy in their own
buildings. But but I do want to pick up on one of the
things that the Rev mention which is that I would encourage
us and not think that it needs to be the owner of
individual customers household by household and that this
is a systems change and so the the specific technologies
that households can start to take advantage of include
ground Source heat pumps air source heat pumps leveraging
the abundance of renewable energy that's going to be coming
onto the grid over the next few years and over the next few
decades.
It's
It shouldn't.
It shouldn't be the responsibilities of individual
customers to do that. So they're there are other utilities
including a couple in the Northeast that are working
cooperatively with their cities. I can give the example of
the city of Lowell is an environmental justice community in
Massachusetts, and they have been working on.
a geothermal heat pump pilot.
A geothermal heat pump pilot that will serve several blocks
including some of the University of Massachusetts campus a
number of residential buildings, including some of the
Housing Authority buildings in that area a number of
single-family residences in the number of businesses, and
they're bringing those customers into the conversations
from the beginning the community engagement is an
incredibly important part of it. So it is possible and and
something that we should be aiming for her to be working
cooperatively so that we can be providing clean energy to
entire neighborhoods as opposed to just on an individual
house a level which which is happening and he's going to
continue to have them particularly as there more are more
and more incentives available to do that.
I'm
I would add that as we do community outreach people are
simply appalled that they're just learning about the harm
that they may have been exposed to our continued to be
exposed to as they cook. Sometimes it's with total
disbelief and limits. Its it moved to anger. Right and and
what are you all going to do to help us and so we had to be
going to trist transition in our community meetings and not
just informing people, but also giving them advice for what
are you do now because you
address we are at risk as
Address, we are at risk as we continue to use are against
those heaters water water heaters in and dryers. And so
we're encouraging people to use their monitors with courage
in you know, I'm too certainly be aware to maybe minimize
the amount of time that they keep the stove on but as you
know, holidays are coming in that's really going to go up.
So I think as we move through this and it has to be a
transition to have to be a planned transition. We also are
responsible all of us who are leaders responsible for
continuing to educate people who simply can't believe I've
been cooking with gas on my life. You're now telling me
that it's dangerous it is and and we need to continue to do
that education help people take care of themselves now and
then help them participate in the transition is should not
be on an individual family. It should be something that we
all that quite frankly Peoples Gas participates in and make
the safety of their customers
thank
Thank you might my phone? Also rev you spoke about this.
How difficult and how much burden is putting communities
the poorest communities of the city of Chicago three or
four times higher the number of shore house?
if
If you can maybe expand on what will these rate hike mean
$2000000 a hike and what would the facts be in the
communities that you serve? I do think is important for
people to look at the human element here when she often
times from the stakeholders and the profit margins, but I
do think is important to understand the one we see in our
communities and effect on the most vulnerable seniors
low-income family. So you can please expand on that. Well
could be the fact of this. Absolutely. I think we see it
now, right we know that as winter comes we'll see news
reports of fires will wonder why that family was trying to
cheat in a way that was on safe and not realizing that so
many take risk that I'm most of us might think are
unreasonable risk.
when you owe at the
When you owe $1,000 or more and your poor that is
insurmountable by end. So I think you know there's a
there's a point where where you're pouring you're in debt
more debt is it's just more dead. Right? It's more stress.
It's more I ain't it's more risk-taking and decision-making
about do I buy medicine do I heat or do I find another way
to try to stay warm and do I risk? My family's life and we
see it. Every winter will see the fires. And so I think
that continuing to think of it as a systemic issue
certainly the individual families who are struggling will
continue to struggle 92 million dollars of that by this
point, you know, as of September, I want to move the
conversation certainly individual families need to help but
this type of debt between the black and brown community.
and the public
And the public utility is a chronic problem. They're just
really it shows a sense of being out of control unless
there's this way that's its always dealt with by Peoples
Gas. Right? And this is the point. I'm trying to make they
have a way of dealing with that but individual still suffer
because they don't know if the systemic if they know it's
their problem in their shame did not even realizing that
almost half in Englewood have their Community has the exact
same issue. And so you know, what's your what's your
pouring you're in that more dad is is simply adds as fuel
to the fire. No pun intended question issue and it requires
all to act creatively and responsibly.
Often times at Cindy's that one of the systemic issues that
we hear that we are often given the option between green
energy or jobs when the economy in my pen does not exist
and I get we hear that is expensive right to move and
transition right? But I think that there's no problem to
pay for the expensive thing that we will need right when is
profitable for certain industries. Why is it impossible for
those who needed them in. So maybe you can expand as a
systemic see nothing in my opinion. We can work to work
both green energy plus
Jobs good-paying job.
jobs good-paying jobs union jobs
How do you stop moving to that was that transition what can
be the role of the city council? And I hope that in
Springfield. They can have similar conversations so that we
start moving in that direction on a responsible transition.
Absolutely. I mean, I'd appreciate it the awareness that
you've already shown about. There's new technology, right?
I graduated in 91 from U of I working for Amoco and at that
time we were talking about how do you reduce emissions?
Right? And so that was 30 something years ago. And so it is
certainly, you know, the companies need to be and I think
whatever Authority you have to say show us that you are
advancing your technology except the data. It is harmful.
The move is happening. You know, we haven't even talked so
much about climate change, right? We've talked about the
air quality in the home which again this data is showing
air quality in the home. Sometimes it's worse than
Outdoors, but there is a
So it's responsibility for being good stewards, you know, we
use different language and environmental specially in the
faith in environmental Arena about our responsibility of
caring for creation. But that is also it should be really a
push from all in authority to say we've got to be moving in
the direction of clean energy sustainability and that
people are not left behind it is not okay for people to
applaud being able to get solar said excetera and those who
are in the communities that are most oppressed and
depressed don't have access to those same resources. We
talkin about energy were talking about something you need
to live. Absolutely every day. That should not be can I
afford to transition it should be the responsibility of
those in authority and in government and
in my
in Monopoly are utilities to say everyone has to transition
and not only for lowering bills, but just for the care of
of the environment as well as our own help.
Thank you. Thank you. I'm in such a Lopez alderwoman to
bars. Good afternoon. I want to touch on something that my
colleague of the 36th Ward mentioned. He brought up all
electric. So you mentioned Aid in your remarks about
studies.
What studies have been done to see how much it's going to
cost for homeowners to go all electric? How much how much
will it cost for a particular Chicago? I want to know what
Chicago homes and businesses to go on electric. What
studies have been done to talk about that? So Cubs going to
study a couple years ago. I'm sorry, the citizens Utility
Board. Yes. I know they did a study center DC a release to
report I believe last year and then we had expert testimony
in the rape case from an expert that looked not as I
understand it on the total cost and I know that anybody has
done a total cost analysis for the city of Chicago. I think
we owe it to the Chicago residents a total cost so he can
better understand that could you share those studies with
the chair? I wasn't your mention. I'm kind of holds and and
do find that for the households that to make the transition
there be cost savings.
yesterday
And yes, there's no one here. I think would deny that
there's going to be cost costs associated with a major
transition. The question is with the balance of costs and
benefits. So can you point to a cost of a home? It's going
to cost approximately can you point to that right now? I
don't know that. No, I don't have a specific cost for it. I
think it depends on the type of home the condition of the
home in a one of the main things that a lot of homes need
to make. This really work is significant investment in the
building envelope to have an efficient home. It's much
easier and cheaper to heat your home and cool your home
regardless of the fuel source if it's inefficient
well-sealed home. So that's that's going to vary
significantly by house will just as when I came in the
Chicago Tribune back in September 3rd of this year. It was
quoted that it cost between 50 to $60,000 to convert one
home.
to
To all electric one home 50 to $60,000 our mayor Mayor
Johnson. He issued an RFP for electric home conversion on
August 1st of this year before the article was published.
The RFP was 415 million dollars and it would convert 200 to
350 homes 15 million dollars for 203.
50 homes on average that puts the cost per home roughly
$54,000.
Taking the lowest number of $50,000 * 800000 homes as an
example. Just saying is an example that would cost Chicago
residence 40 billion dollars to convert to all electric.
I'm going.
I'm going to take 40 billion with a B to convert to our
electric. Is that a fordable Aid that's not affordable. And
I don't think that's actually on the table. If I may
address a couple of the the points. I'm concerned because
the residence of my ward is 23rd Ward I'm concerned about
how they're going to afford this for one. I guess. Maybe
I'll just say I'll run in Tavares for your information. The
resolution is talking about Peoples Gas proposed rate hike,
so just to be clear no one and none of the testimony
submitted today. None of the discussion has been about
converting Chicago to all electric. I know there are
discussions around build buildings decarbonization, and
some of the comments have talked about a long-term
transition, but what we are talking about today and what
they've been prepared to answer questions on is a puzzle
and then just to say a cub right like the breeze that they
filed that you
or look
We're looking at is right.
We're looking at is reducing the proposed rate hike Ascot
Peoples Gas is asking for 402 million. They're just looking
for a reduction to 306 million. Right? So we're not even
talking about they know people Scott should not get a rate
hike we're actually talking about a reduction in an older
man. Conway's resolution is about the proposed rate
increase from Peoples Gas. So just to say I will except
through the chair the studies that the older woman
requested, but all the woman that they're not prepared to
talk about an all-electric station for Chicago cuz that is
not the subject of the hearing. I understand that but it
was brought up or one of my colleagues and I think it's
there
very well to ask those questions all electric because if
that's the road that we're aiming to go through I want to
better understand where we're going.
Is that a fordable? I believe it can be affordable. Yes and
just a comment on a couple things. So I'm not familiar with
the article you cited. I've seen a 50 to $60,000 quote from
the Sun-Times story last year Super Nintendo that that's a
two-flat and that's again an anecdote that one house. We
cannot extrapolate 80,000 customers based on 125 convert
that their folks here from the city of Chicago by thinking
probably better address the low-income project a couple
things one is we
Call know.
Call know that it's not every single dollar of that project
is going to be used with typically. Do you know whether I
sent home or change out a an appliance? There are
administrative costs for the doing that and also going to
Great Lengths to make this a really Cadillac experience for
the low-income households that are getting these upgrades.
So there's going to be significant health and safety work
that needs to be done but doesn't need to be done in every
household has to be significant weatherization work that's
being done and they've budgeted because some of the
households May benefit by getting air conditioning because
I'll get a heat pump which was two ways and because they
start using air conditioning where they've suffered through
hot summers in the past that could actually increase their
overall Bill usage over the entire year. And so they're
prepared to put solar panels on their roofs of some of
these homes to make sure that no matter what these
households save money through the conversion. That's not
what we're going to do.
Trevor
Prairie house. What we need to do for every household. So I
think extrapolating the total cost of a conversion hear
from those examples is not appropriate. I can't I smell
like I have an answer for you. We don't know exactly what
this is going to be. We need to start an integrated
planning process to examine these and I'm not saying I have
here with a perfect solution ready to go get wraps for you
I'm saying we have some tough questions some tough
problems. We need to address.
and I
And raising rates with unnecessary work is making the
problem worse. I rather than a helping the problem if
that's the goal of moving everyone on to all electric.
Is is carbon reduction and how much new Renewable Power
Generation will be needed to handle this a meatball the
rumors of our ass again. I'm going to say it is specially
for the sake of time. It's not the subject of the hearing
and I don't I don't I I believe they've just said they
can't tell you that they don't they don't have the answers
to that question. I'm happy for them to send us more
reports through the chair. But especially for the sake of
time if you can keep your questions to the the rate hike or
or questions about it, but I do. Oh, I do think that this
committee will be a space where we are going to have to
have this broader discussion just to know cuz you are
correct. These are important questions as we think about
what is a future energy path for the city of Chicago just
took up with that.
and
any
I think of my 29th. Yes. I would just like to add a little
bit about the portability concern S8 mention. We don't have
that answer. But in the long run it's going to be it's not
something that's going to happen overnight and from working
at Cub for over 10 years. I've been talking to Consumers
directly and looking over their bills.
and as things
And as things are right now what's not affordable right now
is there gas bill and in with a rake Hike It Won't Be
affordable at all so that and that is what why we're here.
Thank you care woman, they saw the woman.
I'm going to turn it over to Alderman Conway for closing
remarks. I want to thank aural a set of panelist. I want to
thank all of our panelists. I appreciate the time that you
guys have spent with us today. And I'm not going to talk
again after Alderman Conway talks other than to adjourn
woman. I want to thank you for for holding these hearings.
I think that they have given us a lot to think about as a
city. It is clear that we did. This has been a very
important discussion and it is a very important decision
before the ICC that will that will affect the future of all
Chicagoans in the coming days. I'm going to ask this
committee to to weigh in with so we can present our
findings to the to the ICC and in short order in the
meantime. I want to thank all of the proponents of the of
the rate increase as well as
Advocates to burn at the rate increase for attending here
today and and for your a remarks in the education that you
have provided this committee. Thank you very much.
Thank you for Alderman Conway. And again will thank you for
bringing the resolution having no more questions. This
concludes the items before the committee today. What there
be no further business before the committee may have a
motion to adjourn Alderman Martin cell moves hearing. No
objections. So ordered the meeting of the committee on
Environmental Protection and energy is now adjourned. Thank
you all.