Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. We will get started with
the committee on finance meeting as soon as we have quorum.
Good morning.
The committee on finance is called to order.
This.
This is a subject matter hearing to discuss the resolution
introduced by Alderman. Villegas of the 36th Ward calling
on hearing with the Department of Water and the Department
of Finance to discuss. Efforts in addressing water bills.
Outline plans to lessen, the burden on our residence and
ensure water bill. Statements are reflective of actual
water usage. There will be no votes taken today and we will
begin with a roll call to establish form.
By.
Vice-chair Conway.
All.
Alderman laspada.
All.
Alderman Hopkins.
All.
Alderman Hall.
I saw all the men haul.
Come back.
Come back to him Alderman, Mitchell Alderman Harris.
All.
Alderman, Beale.
All.
Alderman. Lee present.
All.
Alderman Ramirez.
All.
Altima.
Alderman Quinn.
All.
Alderman Lopez.
all the
Alderman, Moore Alderman, Curtis.
All.
Alderman, O'Shea Alderman, Taylor Alderman, Mosley Alderman
Rodriguez.
All.
Alderman, Scott present Alderman, see, Joe Lopez
All.
Alderman Burnett's.
All.
Alderman, Ervin Alderman, Taliaferro Alderman, Cardona.
All.
Alderman waguespack Alderman, Rodriguez Sanchez.
All.
Alderman Ramirez, Rosa present.
All the men Villegas Alderman. Mid-autumn, in Vasquez
Alderman, Riley, Alderman can Dustin Hoffman Martin,
Alderman Silverstein chairman Darrell is here.
We?
We're at 16. We have a quorum.
All.
Alderman ramirez-rosa Alderman, Scott and Alderman. Lee have
requested to participate, by remote means, under the
provision of rule 59, can I have a motion to allow all the
men ramirez-rosa Scott and lead to attend today's meeting,
by remote means move by Alderman. Rodriguez, Sanchez,
I'll
All.
All those in favor. Signify by saying I
Opposed.
Suppose, the opinion of the chair, the eyes have it, and
the motion carries Alderman Ramirez. Rosa, Scott and Lee
are allowed to attend this meeting remotely, and I know
we've confirm them through the taking of the attendance
today.
Can.
K. I want to say all Dimension that Taylor has joined us as
well.
It's not on the committee.
All.
Alderman, Taylor we have you did I miss anybody?
Okay. We have 17 at this time, we will begin the public
comment period. The public comment period, will be limited
to 30 minutes out of respect for every one time. Each
speaker is limited to three minutes. We have no callers
that have signed up remotely and everyone
Who is speaking this morning are with us today before we go
on. I want to acknowledge the presence of former Alderman,
Tony folks from the 15th Ward is I saw her here. We spend
just want to say hi to you. Welcome back.
And also want to acknowledge all the way more has joined
us.
Will.
Will begin the first comments with the Rodney Andrews.
Power.
Followed by David Sanchez.
Good Morning Mist Andrews. You have 3 minutes.
Is.
ISpy.
You speak in the mic, please.
good morning, I just
Let's go.
I just called you I guess to tell about my experience with
the water bill.
An.
And my bill went up to 5 secrets.
With non-usage.
And I refuse to pay it because I didn't think it was right.
And would give me a bill.
Without any water being used. So, I'm a reporter came in.
And that caught my story and we got the city to take the
bill down.
And it still was too high, but it got paid. So I got a
monthly bill then that was reasonable but it still isn't
what it should be because it's not being measured.
And I can't get up a m. So
I have.
I have to go with the existing Bill and pay. The water
bill. That's too high.
but,
Is it needs to be something done about was actually being
used because I'm the only person that uses of water.
So,
Is.
is she?
it should be.
You should have a meteor and get the exact amount of usage
and then it would be accurate.
Thank you, missed Andrews. All right. Now is we've been
joined by all the way in Irving
They?
David Sanchez, fixer catarino teacher Powell, in a nice
apartment in the water department members of the media, the
assistant to the owner of 7240 to 76 South Archer and we've
been fighting with other men, folks, tomatoes and 8500
water bill for the property in this is been going on. Since
the end of May and Alderman, folks, requested the water
department to inspect 4276, South Archer, and they came
three times. There was no League, there was nothing wrong
with the m. The last time. The other men requested that the
meeting will be replaced and inspected the other married.
Fit24. Yes. To the fact that maybe there was construction on
the sidewalk at the time of the water bill because
sometimes when the pipes are replace these things happen
before you came back to the effect that there was no such
repairs. So, the next step, this is, these are just a
highlight right here. This is so this is the bill. This is
all the work that has been done by Yours Truly other men,
folks, and the owner. So the highlights are that. The water
meter was replaced on July 12th and July 8th to be exact.
We were promised a reading of the actual usage of the
water. You never came and said yesterday that the day
before this hearing, and ottoman poufs has been trying to
get in touch to the bottom of this situation, with without
Finance, with the water department, she called hearings
Nancy. If it was in hearing,
he said, there's
He said, there's no balance. There's nothing we were told
to why they only was told to pay you $2,000 back in July
and that that will be the end of the story. The $2,000 were
paid right after we came out of the payment, we receive on
another balance for $8,500 and so this is what we are at
the moment. The city like to know what the balance is
coming from where the usage is coming from, nobody knows.
and if you don't pay,
And if you don't pay the $8,500, we can I get permits to do
serious work. That needs to be done. We need a business
license. So, basically, yeah, it's a difficult situation.
Is very expensive, is very stressful, and you just don't
know what's going on. So, thank you very much.
Thank you, mr. Sanchez, Victor catarino followed by Helen
cone.
Yes.
Good morning, we'll here to dispute and usual news. Lehi,
water bill,
Do you?
The use of consumption. It's an apartment is a 1200 square
foot. Apartment is not a warehouse is going to restaurant.
It's not an apartment building, okay? You show consumption
all the water for this apartment is around 150 gallons a
day.
Now, it went up 150 gallons to 45 thousand gallons a day.
So I obviously did something wrong to bring two
perspectives 45000. Gal steals a very large swimming pool,
swimming pool. How can we possibly use this much water, 45
thousand gallons a day. Do something wrong. So, we're here
to dispute, this is Bill.
Nothing.
You think the report we got from the water department in the
finance department? Do not match. So what is going on here
is that the same mistake meet somewhere and let's get to
the bottom of this, because the city is holding all the
permits business license repairs on the building, still
holding everything back because of his water bill.
Set.
Sorry, spitefully request is be settled as soon as we can.
Thank.
Thank you.
Thank.
Thank you very much, mr. Catarino Miss cone followed by
Miss Currington.
$58,820.71 was the final amount due to the Department of
Finance.
For usage, fees, and penalties in May 2019. Before we
settled with the city. This amount of crude beginning in
February 2014, when our laundry and dry cleaning plant was
leased to new operator.
It.
It was operated prior to that for 100 Years by my husband's
family, as owners of the building, we were not aware yet
responsible for this debt.
because,
Because our tenant was receiving the bills.
Is.
This came to our attention in March 2018, after four years
of delinquency, in the account, by our tenant, and you've
been provided with The Ledger of the billing history, we
interacted with Finance, Utility Billing business Affairs,
Alderman, Bill, the lodge apartment of Collections and an
outside Law Firm talent in Constanta, which handles
collections for the city of Chicago. I provided you with a
timeline of 41 points of unique, contact between March,
2018 and June 27th. 2019, when we settled with the city for
$27,026.16 our priority was to have the water shut off to
freeze to death.
They took the
They took took nearly five months until August. 7th 2018
after the shut off the water bill, continue to reflect
consumption through October of 2018.
During.
During the four-year. The water bill was delinquent. Our
tenant received payments for his City's contract of
services totaling $401,891.01, despite a clause in the
contract known as a set of which entitles the city
Does that?
To set off camping station when a Contracting party owes a
debt to the city. You would not think the city would need
to be reminded of this but I did to the advanced
collections clerk. You have a copy of that contract and The
Ledger of vendor payments to our tenant during that for
year.
Party City. Records created a gap between 2014 and 2017.
When a 2014, Note shows the Black Box on this property
could not be located for shut off. In the facility appeared
vacant. By the way, it's on the sidewalk in front of the
building, which was open six days a week and the water of
course, continued to flow. You have a copy of Records
obtained from the Freedom of Information Act regarding this
item.
Thank.
Thank you very much for your testimony missed call.
Miss.
Miss Carrington.
Followed by Lisa beard. Shannon Currington.
Sorry Mr. Currington Currington. Good morning everyone. I'm
here to fight a bill of a $19,000 for a water bill, that no
one even lives there. Rabbits, probably, for 15 years. You
don't maybe some of this bill is mine. I lived there for
about 9 months.
I did.
I do not have.
I did, I had a tenant in that for like, 3 years is 3 years
and 9 months, but the rest of it, I can't figure out. Why
do all this money? I had the city come there and cut the
water off. It's been a year-and-a-half. I come there.
I put the key in the front do I can hear water running in
basement. I go there. The shut-off valve is how you stop
the water from coming to the house. The pipe is bust it
down here. I got a call to see that go ahead and come out
and cut the water off what they're steady.
No money. I'm saying there's no meter that you come in the
front lawn. He just left a little round plate up in the
same thing. Like you going to water it while your grass
outside. You just that's how you cut the water on.
There's no meter. How, how you calculating this no one
lives there. I'm at the point. Now I've had the property
for 15 years. No one has ever lived there, cept me and then
had a tenant there for 3 years. 3 years, and 9 months. I
would have my. Okay, fine? What the other rest of that?
Remind.
Why do you money? No one lives there and ask any, any any
Resident? My block. No one lives that I come and cut the
grass several times a week or a month. No one lives there.
There's no garbage man collected from that. When it, when
the guy is coming into the garbage, there's no garbage can
there's no garbage. What their studies in all this money
I'm saying why
What?
Why do?
Why do we?
Why do all the money?
So,
So I'm here to fight this bill and hope to get some relief.
I was a.
I was at the water department in April and it would like
where you were nineteen thousand. You know why? I don't no
one lives there. And why no one has been there since 2019.
There.
There is no gas to gas admission off and maybe six years.
Miley.
My lipstick bill is like $12 a month, just enough just to
have service.
In.
Alone.
Summer.
So I'm hoping to get some relief.
Thank you.
Thank you, very kindly.
Thank.
Thank you mr. Carrington
Lisa beard.
Well.
Followed by Robert Johnson and Dolores Delano Johnson.
The.
Good morning morning. I'm here too.
Big.
Figure out why the water department is inaccessible.
When you have an issue.
You're told that someone will call you back between 24 and
72 hours. My issue started December 20th.
I got a call.
I got a call only after I was featured by Brad Edwards and
is getting old series one. Call from a supervisor was never
able to get her again.
I received a $12,000 bill for Christmas, due December 20th.
They said that this is an actual and then I used 107000
gallons of water in a single family residence, where only
myself and 11 year old live.
I insisted that they come out and make sure there were no
leaks outside, it came in. And said, my Mater was 10 years
old and I didn't said it's working. Okay, I disagree. When
was the meter calibrated, who calibrated it? What are the
records? That show? Where it's been calibrated? Because my
bill has lived in the same house for 30 years. A bill has
never been more than $80. So you replace the meter.
Borgess.
Boy, gets more interesting after that. I start to get bills
from the new Mater.
First bill $19.
Add.
actual next bill $409,
Ask.
Estimate.
Next spell $134.
Esther.
As soon.
Estimate, why do you have to estimate my bill? When you
just put in a brand new meter? Isn't that what it's for
You cannot call anyone. I want calls you back problem. I
can't fight my bills from the back end because I'm a city
employee and I face discipline if I don't pay these bills.
So these bills have been paid.
but they,
But there's no way I used 107000 gallons of water in two
months. Where would it Go? Someone would see that amount of
water.
It.
It is the equivalent of 8 swimming pools.
and,
And me and the eleven-year-old used it. No one calls you
back, there's no recourse because the city owns its own
water.
Do I?
So I can't call the AG that i g n e of the G's, there's no
help.
and,
Thank.
Thank you.
Thank.
Thank you, Miss. I want to acknowledge the presence of all
the men waguespack and all the men Cruz and Mana
hoppenworth
let,
let's,
Next speaker is Robert Johnson and Delano Johnson. How are
you? I'm Robert Johnson. I'm speaking on behalf of my
mother who is De Lauria Johnson. Warrior. Thank you. 83
years of age and has had a stroke. And so,
We are speaking on behalf of the property at 43.
When?
2520 / 27. South King Drive.
The building was involved in a fire. However, there was a
so,
A settlement agreement between the department of
administrative hearings, the court.
Du Sol.
DeSoto the water bill as well between the department of
administrative hearing and my mother in the amount of
$45,355.36, which was settled on December 2nd. 2022 is when
the court order was injured. My mother ended up paying the
amount of $45,355.36 on December 21st of 2022.
She ended up selling the property. February 1st of 2023 in
between a two-month.
The buyer wanted a water certification showing that the
water bill was settled and between that 2 month. That was
an additional water bill charged a utility charge of
$16,802.32 upon sale of the building. She ended up paying
$16,802.32
Is.
Is she would like to be reimbursed $16,802.32 because the
city of Chicago did not honor their own court agreement.
That was entered December 2nd of 2022.
Thank.
Thank you.
Play.
Thank you, mr. Johnson. Jasmine Juarez, followed by George
Blakemore.
Hello.
Hello, everyone, my name is Yasmine. What is I'm here to
request the end of water. Shut offs due to non-payment and
increase transparency, on how water is billed. For example,
adopting a high usage alert system like other Great,
American cities have DC. For example, has an app to warn
customers of high water usage, that monitors consumption on
an hourly basis, instead of a monthly average. This could
save Chicago and spouses of dollars and a headache. And may
2022. My family was billed, $64,528 by the Department of
Finance and utility Utility Billing. This was more than my
annual College tuition and equivalent to 6 million. Gal of
water in just two months for comparison. The Shedd
Aquarium. Reportedly holds about 5 million gallons of water
I have two hard-working parents who like most Chicagoans
could not take time off to dispute the bill for two weeks,
I called the city.
I would get on to,
I would get unsympathetic replies like well, that's what
the meter reads. You probably have a massive underground
league. Would you like to sign up for a payment plan? Not
ones to admitting that? There might be a small possibility
that the bill was incorrect. Unsure, if we did have a leak
we frantically called 311 to report it and the workers were
more understandable. They verify that we had no leak and
wished us. Good luck in. Finding the bill and warned us
about shut offs desperate because we did not want to incur
the late fees on top of the already on Rage of spill. I
called Channel 2 news and a day or two, after the segments
are got an annoyed call from the Water Management
leadership and let me assure you all that if our bill had
not been so unreasonable, we wouldn't be at the mercy of
debt collectors Water Management continues to Guys Like Me.
They?
They had the other.
They had the audacity to us once again, if you were
interested in enrolling in a payment plan, and the payment
plan was higher than our monthly mortgage payments.
Eventually the bill is Forgiven and we were able to move on
from the psychological Terror. That is planning for a
water. Shut up. And I'm not here for me. I am here to
prevent other Chicago in sharing this experience. Thank
you.
Thank.
Thank you, Miss Juarez.
Joy.
George Blakemore star final speaker.
They?
They said Shane is corrupt Fraud and Abuse. This is the
Chicago.
I hope all of the elected officials and what's so
egregiously about this whole thing that you will be able to
sell your property. That's the big picture. You will not
forget if you owe a water bill.
If?
If I owe my electric bill and I own my property electric
company, can't keep me from selling my property. That's the
big picture.
Wake.
Wait.
Waste Fraud, and Abuse and several years ago, I came to the
same about about the water. Department was the most racist
department, is the water that part. I was just curious when
I heard what was going on down at the wallet apart.
Is.
Is something wrong here and I hope all you citizen
responsible. You keep putting these political hacks back at
you deserve the government, you get, and you get the
government that you deserve the water report. This is not
Eddie Reeves on the agenda.
Subject matter. No legislation. They just letting you call.
Call.
Then.
The legislation have to come up to change. What's going on
here to rearrange, is something wrong here and we can't let
this go on. This is your property, you pay for it. You have
every right to sell it and they say you can't stand. Nobody
want to buy because you owe a wallaby a special property
and it shouldn't be connected to the wall.
In the wall.
What is in the world? That's what you need to do.
How old I am? I am. I am.
And are you going to do it for you qualified? To answer me.
Are you?
If?
Estimate. Who ever heard of such none at all. I am. Thank
you, mr. Thank you, mr. Blakemore there was one other
speaker today, Scott Rosen wise, if you could come forward,
and,
And I'd like to acknowledge that Alderman. Hopkins is also
with us today.
A good morning to everyone here. I would like to thank all
them in the league. Is his office for reaching out to me
and letting me try. I'm in for a few moments again. My name
is Scott rosensweig, I'm a community-minded developer. I've
been renovated property since 1988 in the city of Chicago
in the areas which when they started, we're not getting a
lot of attention and overtime have gotten better and a lot
of
My organization, we've done a lot of, I like to think we've
done a lot of good. We've produced a lot of affordable
housing and a lot of commercial property in neighborhoods
that we're not getting the attention. They deserve. The
reason I'm speaking today is that we have a wonderful city
of city of great neighborhoods. But we have a broken system
when it comes to the water department. Last year, I
purchased the property at 6636 South Ingleside, when I
called the water department, we were told the bill was
$13,000, that was palatable for what I was buying. We went
to get a full payment certificate, and when we got the full
Payment Certificate, the water bill was $44,000 and the the
story basically was that the owner of the house,
Yeah.
He had died. Got no children, no family in Chicago. And
during the polar vortex in 19, the pipes froze. And it was
a metered account, which meant that, we know how much water
went through the system, in the house, neighbors had
called, because they sell water pouring outside and nothing
was done. Unfortunately, the bill, when we went to get the
full Payment Certificate was now $44,000, which made it
untenable to renovate the property. So I paid the $44,000.
I tried fighting it. I tried having the title company. I
tried calling you all demands office, I tried calling the
city in, this is not my first rodeo. I've been doing this
for a long time and we, we, we got nowhere. I had to pay as
part of the contract, the open water bill, and I could not
make the property were
advance.
How to financially?
How to financially nice. I got to sell it. I'm working
right now at 30, I believe it's 3320 Polk Street. Same
story, a lady died. Squatters moved in this property.
They've been there for about 4 years. The taxes and not
been paid. The water has not been paid. But the water
hasn't been shut off because someone is in the building
even though they're squatters and that water bill is now
$25,000. So I'm I'm stuck.
What does?
With the same problem again.
with the same problem, again, I think everybody in this
room understands and wants to see,
Finish.
Finish that up real quick. I think everybody wants to see
more affordable housing if thank you.
That.
That concludes public comment, we did receive one written
public comment from Andrea, she didn't have a last name,
requesting the Departments of assistance to rectify a high
water bill statement. So today's meeting is the subject
matter of hearing to discuss the resolution introduced. By
all the men Villegas calling on hearing, the Department of
Water and the Department of Finance and no boats will be
taken today, and we'll open it up with the alderman
Villegas who has also invited dr. Deborah Carol, from the
University of Chicago, and dr. Anne Evans from Elevate to
address the committee. Their resumes were sent to everyone
electronically, as well as Doctor Carol's opening statement
would like to also acknowledge all the men Silverstein is
trying to squirm all the men Villegas.
Thank.
Thank you. My
Thank you, ma'am.
Thank you, madam chair. Thank you. Carlos for coming in
under some very important issue. You heard from Chicago and
44058 thousand $64,000. These are some of the bill amount
that we have heard directly from folks. During the public
comment is very frustrating to hear the stories I'm here
today to speak to see why the issue of water billing upon
reading and listening to stories from CBS to and other
media Outlets that are shared concerns of the stocking
report revealing unreasonable and inexplicable,
inexplicable water bills for residents. Have no Plumbing
issues or excessive water, use leaving many and distress.
And at the mercy of debt collectors that like, to remind
this body that in 2019, we took the steps to deal with
fines and fees is at that time, we found out that the
number one issue for bankruptcy for Chicagoland's was the
fines and fees from Chicago.
Is.
It's okay.
It's so here we are again with another issue that I think
we need to take up and remedy. Listen, government is
imperfect. We understand that. And I think it's incumbent
upon us that once we do, discover that there are issues
that we fix it. And so that's what I'm here. And that's why
I called these hearings is because we need to fix this our
call. Our office has been inundated with calls since we've
taken up this issue. And the number of stories at the
stories that we've heard have just been heartbreaking,
people have lost their house. People that
Out in.
Out. Imagine government doing that to you and that's what
we've done and I think we need to fix that immediately. I
was shocked to discover how callous the city has been when
dealing with water billing impacted by the stated that the
city's response is cut and dry. Quote, look, that's the
bill. I will put you on a payment plan and that's just like
business. As usual clothes, Corp. We have to remember that
we work for the residents of Chicago.
As the chairman of economic capital technology development
committee, I want to focus and how to remedy the issue with
the approximately 350 million out of the capital bill. That
was earmarked for it upgrades, this buddy pass, a capital
Bill and almost 10% of it was earmarked for it upgrades is
body also conducted a i t i t study to show where we're at
as relates to it implementation. We did that two years ago.
So for those that want to see the blueprint that the city
has its called the Gartner report, I'm so we've put forward
the blueprint for it upgrades and the funding Revenue
stream, two years ago. And yet we have zero implementation
of the gardener report and $0 have been expended to upgrade
the it,
You her?
You heard one of the commenters mentioned about the
technology.
which,
We should be looking at when someone does get a water bill
that they're notified. If there's unusual usage. There is
technology. That doesn't there other municipalities that do
that now? Why aren't we doing that? We should be looking at
that.
Unclear billing practices in a lack of adequate technology
and data sharing between a DWI in the Department of
Finance, continue to result in confusion angst, and
financial hardship, necessitating additional transparency,
and we've got to understand, we got to remind the
bureaucrats that the residents on the other end of the
phone or the other end of the desk. We work for them, so we
can't lose sight of that. And so we got to figure out how
to be responsible. Making sure that we're not going to
residents of the city of Chicago. Med. A thank you again
for taking time on this important issue and I'd like to
turn it over now to the subject matter. Expert second speak
a little bit more on some of the reports that they've done.
I'm just on this issue in Chicago. I also want to mention
that were joined by a commissioner Andrew Chang from the
Department of Water Management are acting City comptroller.
Chase rent twinkle.
Okay.
Birthday.
First, deputy director Joel Flores managing deputy director
Elaine Herman and deputy director, Catherine wheeler, from
the Department of Finance and also Rod Warren, the
executive director of the Department of assets and
information and services. So we will start with dr. Evans
first?
Thank.
Thank you, everyone. My name is Ana Evans. I'm with
Elevate. We are chicago-based nonprofit that implements
clean energy and clean water programs to reduce utility
bills a healthy environment and create local construction
jobs. We have been working in collaboration with the city
for several years on the issue of water over for
affordability and water reconnection including completing
emergency plumbing repairs for folks. We are dealing with
the kind of leaks in the stories. They've heard today, we
were grateful to work with the city of Waterford ability
report and with the Metropolitan planning Council, that
looked at Water Utility, did the data from 2015 through
2020. And then we conducted a second analysis that that
What is?
That report is public on our website and we did a second
analysis to look at the impact of covid. We learned that
water burden in Chicago's, not evenly distributed since its
tracks for the majority black latnex Latino or Latino or
Asian population face. An average of higher water burden
even though we don't believe that use more water. In
Chicago's lowest income census tract with a majority black
population, they're paying on average 19% of their income
on water bills which is of course not affordable. We also
learned that non-metered custard the customers pay on
average $500 more than M customers. We also learned that
three and four unit buildings carry the burden. Good news
is that the city rolled out the utility bill relief program
a few years ago. And we've done an analysis of that. This
program is working more.
9.
90% of customers are achieving that that that alleviation
and are able to pay the pay their bills because they're
much lower. The average for you be our participation at the
time, we looked at it with $1,200 a month which is probably
what an average rent or mortgage payment might be. I'm
sorry $1,200 a year but that was even higher. We have heard
that the ten thousand 20 thousand 30,000 even higher dose.
We're relieved.
We're relieved as well. However, we think there's more, we
can do, we can expand qbr to reach even more customers and
we can Target ubr to those customers experiencing extreme.
So what we recommend is that we accelerate Universal
metering to all Resident residential account switch. Me
know, also includes LED service line replacement, we
experienced ubr to include renters and three and four unit
buildings. We continue to reinstate households who are who
are living without water and establish an emergency
plumbing reply repair program. Although we have a program
is supported by philanthropy is relatively limited. We
really need to expand it with a couple of dollars and we
focus on targeting those folks that are experiencing this.
It seemed stressed and dress-up high high bills. We leaned
in on community-based.
Engage.
Engagement.
Engagement to identify folks who are struggling with these
situations and we consider looking for opt out programs as
opposed to opt-in. So rather, we know the folks that are
struggling, we can look at the data that's up to them
automatically into programs. Like you be our, thank you for
the opportunity to speak today.
Thank.
Thank you, dr. Evans is it possible to get a copy of your?
We didn't have a statement from you, but you come up with
some good recommendations are like to be able to share it
with the committee. Thank you a doctor Carol.
Good morning. My name is Dr. Deborah Carol. And I'm
director of the government Finance Research Center as well,
as professor and head of the department of public policy
management and analytics and the College of urban planning
and public affairs at the University of Illinois, Chicago
The.
The mission of the government Finance Research Center which
we affectionately called. The gfrc is the shape and
informed public policy and scholarly discourse on
government and Public Finance by identifying and planning
and executing research providing reports and informed
analysis, delivering educational opportunities, and
Technical Training and offering inclusive venues to convene
a national and local discussions on fiscal and governance
issues since January 2022. I have been leading a team of
researchers within the gfrc to investigate and report on
Municipal Water rate setting throughout the state of
Illinois. This water rate settings, study was authorized by
the Illinois General Assembly through Public Act, 101 Dash,
562 approved in 2019 and amended by Public Act 1 0 2 Dash
507 approved by governor pritzker in 2021 and was
appropriated as part of the
Rescue plan. A
rescue plan, act, coronavirus State, Physical Recovery
Fund,
As specified in the legislation, the study addresses, seven
critical purposes, including the components of a water bill
reasons for increases in water rates, the definition of
affordability, throughout the state and any variances to
that. Definition evidence of rate-setting that utilizes an
appropriate practices, the extent to which state or local
policies, drive cost increases or variations in
rate-setting challenges with an economically. Disadvantaged
is disadvantaged communities in setting water rates and
opportunities for increased intergovernmental coordination
for sitting Equitable rates, and increasing access to
drinking water for residents of economically disadvantaged
communities.
The.
The three-year project is being conducted in two phases. In
June of this year, we successfully completed Phase 1 and
submitted to the Illinois general assembly and nearly 180
page report of our research findings and policy
recommendations for the Lake. Michigan service area in the
northeastern region of the state, including the city of
Chicago. Currently we are working on the second phase of
the project took producer report for the remainder of the
state that the report itself and a series of accompanying
policy briefs along with all of the data sources that we
used for the first report can be
found a
Found on our website at gfrc that uic.edu. If you look under
featured projects we have a separate web page web page for
the water rate settings, study, that includes all of that
information and I'm happy to answer any questions here
today from this esteemed committee. Thank you. Thank you,
dr. Carol can you repeat the website for its g? F r c.
Uic.edu under featured projects. You'll see a web page, a
project site web page for the water rate settings study.
That includes the full 180 page report, a series of
two-page policy brief because it is a quite lengthy report.
So the policy brief so much easier to ingest the
information and data sources that we used for our research.
Thank you for.
Thank you very much. And before we open it up to the floor
for the committee members, I would like to have
commissioner Chang and
Our comptroller Chase rink Winkle speak to this issue.
Sure. Thank you. And thank you to The Experts for their
reports which have been very
Illumina.
Eliminating.
Eliminating to it may as well. Share dowel chair Villegas
distinguished members of the committee on finance. I want
to thank you for the opportunity to present on the topic
water bills. A primary issue for the Department of Finance
to both review and ameliorate. My name is Chase, Ray winkel
and I have the honor of. I have had the honor of serving as
the acting City comptroller for nearly two months. Now, in
that short time, I have made it a priority to schedule
meetings with as many members of city council as possible.
I have met with many of you and to those, I haven't, I know
we will meet soon.
Accra.
Across these meetings, nearly every member of this body has
made it clear to me that unexpected and unreasonable
increases in water bills. Are a major concern for Chicago
residents and must be dealt with swiftly. I share your
concern and commit to this body. The Department of Finance
will work diligently with city of the council or sister
departments and impacted Chicago residents to address this
issue. So that no. So that Chicagoans are not burdened by
unexpected water bills. A surprise jump in water cost
should not cause any chicagoan to think about leaving their
home or moving their business.
As the.
As the committee.
As the committee is aware, there are two types of water
billing for Chicago, residents M did non non bills are
calculated based on a series of factors including building
size lot, size another fixtures, non M bills typically are
the same every month. Meaning that sudden jumps and
high-cost water bills are quite uncommon. However a
non-metered bill can increase if the nature of the property
changes. Eg a single-family home becomes a two-flat etc.
Additionally, is it important for non-metered, vacant
properties to register as vacant with a department of
buildings so that the Department of Water Management can
shut off water services and the Department of Finance can
stop billing.
Remind.
Four M, two counts, a number of factors could lead to a
spike in water bills running. Toilets, broken pipes inside
the home, broken service lines between the building and the
bee box. Burst pipes in the winter even access outdoor
water usage in the summer can cause large unexpected jumps
and cost additionally metered accounts or sometime
estimated between meter readings. If a leak or increased
usage occurs between meter readings in the true up of the
cost. Post meet you either reading can sometimes be very
high, possibly many tons of times, the bill that the
residents used to paying their other issues, as well,
including those related to installation of the meter
causing the heater to effectively run in Reverse is also
possible.
How to read?
Reading itself was incorrect. I can firmly commit that for
these scenarios. My office will do its very best to
correct. Any charges determined to be inaccurate in a
timely manner. Core issue. A core mission of the Department
of Finance is to collect revenue on behalf of the city. In
order to provide the resources necessary for the city to
meet the needs of its residents collecting Revenue. Based
on inaccurate billing runs counter to this Mission should
not be part of the city's collection process. However, for
those customers at see a spike in water bill because of a
leak or other water usage, it is still concerning to see
large and unexpected spikes. It is important to note that
in the Municipal Code, 11 12 for 6 requires the Department
of Finance to charge and collect for all water. Passing
through M specifically prohibiting the department for
making any deduction for water loss through a leak.
Student.
student, or
Student or waste of the water. Despite this barrier over
the past few years, the department has worked to provide
more options, for residents struggling to pay their water
bill Utility Billing relief, program, ubr provides
eligible. Persistent participants with roughly 50%
reduction and what they currently pay for utility services.
In addition to reducing home homeowners, utility charges,
you be our program, offers residents, debt relief, those
participant,
To reach there.
To reach their enrollment one year anniversary date and
remain current in their payments will have their previous
unpaid City utility debt forgiven also, in July 2020, to
the city council approved to change the admissible code
that would that removed authority to shut water off service
off for Residential Properties due to non-payment. And
addition, the department has extant, expanded the online
billing Proto. So that Chicagoans can more easily View and
pay there and pay bills. Apply for full payment
certificates, or enter payment plan. These reforms have
made it easier for Chicago and struggling to pay their
water bills. But I work in this area is far from complete.
The department would like to work with city. Council to
reasonably expand. The, you be our programs include at
least 35 to elings, as well as devised. A suite of policy
tools that could include extending payment plan terms, to
make monthly payments more affordable.
Upena.
A penalty relief program, a hardship committee, and the
creation of water bill appeals hearing process. So that the
city can more effectively address these unusual and
dramatic spikes in water bills. I look forward to working
with you all on, improving our system. So we continue to
meet the hablar obligations but also avoid onuris and
unexpected, billing increases, thank you. And I'm happy to
answer any of your questions.
Thank you. Come true.
Thank you, troller. Commissioner shame.
Thank.
Thank you. Good morning, German doll. Turman Villegas and
members of the committee on finance eye, doctor, Andrew
Chang, commissioner of the Department of Water Management
UWM. And I'm grateful for the opportunity to appear before
you today. Our presence here is to shed light on the
intricate dynamics of meter reading and water building in
Chicago. The mission of the 2,000, women and men of the
Department of Water Management is to ensure that we deliver
high-quality drinking water to Residents. We don't ever
want residents to fear that using that water will result in
sudden large increases and water pills.
where,
We are.
We are here today with the Department of Finance as our
departments have related but discreet roles in water
billing in 2010 to finance took over all water billing
responsibilities for D&W on and DWI maintains the water and
sewer infrastructure including the M used to measure the
water flow where is finance, use that data to build a
residence and handle, building-related customer service
with almost half a million Active water billing account,
494005.3 million people Chicago is one of the largest water
utilities in the US. That's a lot of accounts to maintain
and manage but let me take a moment to explain how the
water infrastructure and M work in relationship to the
water bill in water flows from a large means in the street
through small water service lines that are controlled by a
shutoff valve known as a
Buffalo box, or
Buffalo box or be box. Typically the water service line
continues into the front portion of a home's basement.
Where water meter if present is located. In some cases, the
beater is located within a below ground fault in front of
the home. So even if no water is being used that
infrastructure has been maintained by dwm
D.
Dwm is responsible for purchasing and stalling, testing,
repairing, and reading these water meters. Are we have one
here today that you just to kind of get up so everyone can
see what they look like. Water M consists of a measuring
chamber on the bottom of register. On the top that have a
dial that shows the usage in gallons and a transmitter.
2007 gwm has been using. It is called a m r m or automatic
automated meter reading. The meter is transmitter sends out
a signal every 4 to 10 seconds. That's picked up by a DWI
vehicle. That's driving down the street. Each route is red
one per month and then the usage data is uploaded into the
banner Billing System by a third party. Vendor dwm remotely
reads over three hundred and ten thousand each month. And
before a m r m, a red manually by staff to enter home.
As well.
As water flows through that measuring chamber, it move than
a rotating disk. And that those rotating, just meet us out
of a standard type of meter for the water industry. But
it's important to note that M measure all the water that
flows through them meeting that leaks Upstream of a m are
not measured butt leaks, Downstream of a meter or closer to
the house are measured. So eventually small residential,
water meter should be replaced as they can potentially,
slow down. Reducing accuracy and their transmitters can
reach the end of their battery life large or M. However,
can be tested and recalibrated, and rebuilt, rather than
replaced.
Play.
Find.
Finance, handles, most customer service, complaints and if
needed, they will set up an appointment to have a dwm crew
investigate. Those M that investigation might involve
replacing the meter and bring you the original back for me
to shop for testing checking for leaks or downloading a
detailed hourly water usage profile to look for when an
increase in water usage was detected. I d d, i DWIs is the
state-of-the-art meter tester in our meter shop. The
results of those investigations are been entered into a
banner for review by Department of Finance.
The.
The ammo.
The EMR system also provides automatic that action of
withhold running continuous or RC, I know, radio frequency
and RF code which will help diagnose issues, RC codes
trigger letters to Residence. When is prolonged usage, a
helping customers identify potential leaks at where is NRS
code. Could indicate that a proper signal was not received
by the WNBA? Go driving by and sometimes happen. If
something like, like a large garbage truck is interfering
with the signal transmission. And if it interests code is
received an estimated Bill rather than actual bill is
generator for that month.
I'm in.
it's
I'm installing a water heater. Save money allows for early
detection of leak, which is important in avoiding
unexpected, large water bills and keeping water affordable
for residents of further safety, not is the 7-year
guarantee that was included. Four presidents that were part
of a m, c of water, billing insulation program where
they're bill could be no higher than what it would be. If
they were still non-metered, 136000 meters were installed
with a m, a program from 2009 to 2022 by the water
affordability, study energy, gwm continues to install, M &
R drive for equity and affordability. I do I change in
state law. However, as of January, 2023 are installed as a
part of every letter with vinyl placement.
in a
Images.
In addition residential water, shut offs to non-payment
were banned in 2018. For moving forward, we are committed
to modernizing 2 a.m. our meter readings system, and the
Legacy Banner Billing System. Modern options, allow
residents greater access for water, usage, data, and
provide automated alerts for admirable usage. Like the app,
that was my check and we look forward to continuing our
partnership with the Department of Finance and city council
to ensure that every resident has access to Safe clean and
affordable drinking water. Thank you, thank you.
Commissioner I want to acknowledge all the mentality of
pharaoh who's joined us and we'll be counting towards
Coram. I will start with questions from the members of
Commit.
Committee beginning with the alderman, Stacia Lopez.
Thank.
Thank you. Thank you. My darling. First, let me thank you
Uncle menu for this important hearing, also to all them for
making it happen before. I I I start with some important
questions. I think it's important to put into context, how
we got to this place? They cost and it seemed to all the
residents who came into testified on the many others corner
here. Astronomical we have, as we have curbed by testimony,
people who are losing their homes out of these practices on
a specific.
You.
In.
You know what gender is here? Furniture the benefit by
these scales in the city of Chicago, we have an award at
least, you know, a sub kitchen. That is a struggling to
stay open and many other residents with really, really
traveling, fax just as with her today. So, this issue is
Major and affects, many of the most beautiful communities
in the city of Chicago. How do we got here? So, I think
want to put into context that then run, reminder,
Administration decided to increase cost.
All.
Of.
Of sewage and water bills to pay for infrastructure
projects.
Add.
I do think that is critical that we look at this issue.
Really.
Really carefully because I understand that, as we
mentioned, someone measuring the testimony to qualify for
the water bill or water meter.
Ben.
They need to qualify first for a replacement by Chicago. We
have the worst problem in the country for that. We need
$390,000 to be replaced. He's a massive, massive problem,
of course, is issues that we had with billing. I think in
the last account in last year, was about 469 million
dollars in debt, that many of our constituents in the south
side, west side in the spores in the city are struggling
with
So my first question in terms of cuz I don't want to
dismiss, this is a big issue is important to put into
context. The previous administration committed to have an
aggressive program to address this issue. Yet. It didn't
happen. I guess in the ghost of the County Line put on my
line of questioning will be further starting their why we
don't use last time. And I know that they were some goals,
at least by the end of 2020 to the where Matt that were put
in place. So my first question has to do
Obviously.
I'll be honest with you, with many, many more. I know that
we have 390,000 service line that need to be replaced, but
I committed to replace six hundred of them as a 50 million
dollars.
That would be my first question. What progress have we made
on the goals? That the water department has said to
achieve? And also, you know, maybe from the controller
maybe in terms of building. I mean, why we heard today, is
simply unacceptable. So first I want to see infrastructure
wise, I'm going to go and then maybe especially around
billing. Why would you want to make sure that these these
does not happen to anyone, my apologies, I'll be coming to
see the Chicago for the residence or dealing with these
atrocities. I just want to make sure for this hearing the
subject matter hearing is focused. Primarily on billing.
Yes. We're focusing on LED service replacement lines today.
I would like you to keep your questions focus on the
billing issue but we will go with the one answer that you
are. Looking for want to acknowledge all the men Curtis has
joined us Alderman, Mosley and Alderman Taliaferro.
Take.
Thank.
Pikachu. Certainly thank you all the time that question. So
I drive thing but service on replacing program.
Specifically, the six hundred a-year goalie site that is
for our Equity. Let serve as my replacement program. That's
correct. We also have five other LED service line
replacement programs for a total of 4504. This year for our
goal and then continuing to increase up to about nine
thousand a year in the coming years to continue to ramp up
to get rid of. All of the lights, are with my Replacements
and of course, as a part of each one of those meter is
installed, if there's not one there or replace difficult,
it's all we continue to recognize the importance of getting
those m in and funding, those lights are Ascend
Replacements cuz it also impacts affordability.
and,
Near me speaking to billing, I agree. So out of Zone, in
terms of Chumps and water that the items we heard today, we
do get those there. There I would say they're rare but but
everyone every Ward experiences them in this way. So we get
roughly 350,000, different bills, are charges coming in in
a month and in the given month about 500 on average will be
jumps of over five times with the previous song.
Hunt.
Context of all of.
Context of all of the bills. It's a small number. But to
each of those individuals, that's a huge price that they
have to bear and we, and my commitment to you. And this
body in coming here is to work on that group specifically.
Now we should be working on discussions about how we're
billing and in all of our areas of the city, to make sure
we're doing it in a, in a fair and balanced way before
those specific group of individuals, even in legitimate
situations, that's a shock to everyone. If I go from $50 to
$12,000 in one month and in the grand scheme of our Revenue
structure, it removed, it represents a tiny part of what we
bring it. So the 1.2 billion that will bring Ian in total
in water, they represent somewhere in the in the average of
8 to 10 million a year, it's Adele million is still a lot
of money, but to the individual specifically that's a ton
money.
money for them to burden an area. That the city is a
dependent on Revenue. Was so the provision within the
statute, I'm sure was originally put in there so that there
can't be just Mass forgiveness of water, which would be use
for a bonding services, but there are ways that we can look
at what other cities have done to mitigate those factors.
So that these jumps and these shocks should have become
part of our Revenue structure, nor should they be kind of
an everyday? And every
Pause.
Never a possibility.
Ever a possibility for, for the residents here, it's not,
it's not it's not something that is acceptable and we
should be working toward Solutions, which is why we'd like
to work toward expanding ubr as well as looking at a
different appeals pieces, other relief program, so that
those can be mitigated. Thank you for going to connect to
be focusing on. On, on billing for today. In particular, my
biggest concern and is effective in housing, right? I'm in
the city has gotten to the point that we have even have
issues developing affordable housing because we are not
able to provide a certificate that the city owes money to
itself, so that we can build affordable housing. So
pervasive, my bad decisions are, my question is a special
around low-income homeowners and again that you be, you
know, that the programs to relieve on that.
What are the?
What are the six million dollars that huge number, right?
It is really focusing on his really burning the most
vulnerable residents with your people losing their homes.
They're building a team does an acceptable we put in
burning or nonprofits. I tried to provide a service and
there's no recourse other than to sign up for the payment
plan. What are the recourse weekend? You know, we can have
to make sure that is equity in or action because right now,
it is really putting a bird in, in the most portable
Yeah.
Yes, I agree. When I came into office, my directive in
coming here, was to make sure that our Revenue structure
was Equitable and fair to the residents of the city of the
city of Chicago. We should not have our Revenue stream
based on fines and fees, fines and fees are necessary to
correct Behavior. They're not necessary to fund the city of
Chicago. We should make sure that we're reviewing our
Revenue structure. So that we're handling the issues that
are most important to the people that live here. Regardless
of what neighborhood you're from or kind of what what needs
that neighborhood has its own terms of low income housing.
I know that Martin had brought to me when I went to visit
him that issue, and that's something I very much would like
to work with with you on as well Alderman, but I agree, we
need to look at all these different pieces to make sure the
at that,
that's coming.
that's coming in that we're handling that in the
appropriate way to make sure that the city still working
for its residents but it's not overburdening them. Thank
you.
In our community, right? We have seen the facts of
displacement in multiple ways, but the hardest thing to
accept is what we heard of the testimony today, but someone
has to sell the room, right? And then asking the council to
Forever in person later. I do see in the darkness to change
and I know that this is not the focus for today on the
light replacement, but we heard today that isn't connected
that endeavor aboard the history of it. While we have time,
find zaffis to revenue. Here's where we find ourselves on
this was under all the things that I think it's really
critical is to really find these cases are again. I don't
know, if you have information about how many people are
burning in this, in this line in terms of losing the Cuomo,
getting to death, that would put it in front on Chelan,
including bankruptcy Mike, my Porsche Woody, this UPS
Play.
so you from
Do you promote a?
Are you promoting how much funding we're about to enter
budget season? It is any estimates in terms of how much we
help me in a week and we can come meet you. And I do just
speaking on just a ubr expansion, just to three blocks, we
would have estimates that that would cost the city and
revenue about 1.7 million dollars a year. And that's a
price. I think that at least from my office were willing to
work with in order to help the
people that are burdened by the
People that are burdened by those debts, it kind of
restructures and how we're funding thing. So it's not that
expensive to us to consider expansions that program in the
same way. As I was just grabbing the small number that have
the spikes. If we look at that problem, specifically in the
grand total of our Revenue collection, it's a small amount
and then. And what that says to me is we are not dependent
on that revenue and we can come up with Solutions together
to make sure that those folks are not being overly
burdened. It pains me. Every time I hear somebody say I
want from, I went from $70 to $68,000 and now that property
is toxic and only wants to touch it hard to sell, we should
be able to, since that is, that is revenue. That is a major
to the city of Chicago. I want to clarify that, but also we
should be working toward making sure that property can
become more available to
Person.
Person who's there and that we handle those issues that are
coming up to those individuals. Can you control 2021 we
propose to use them for the funds to coordinate his
efforts. There was about 30 members of the council
supported is too. Bright eyes, Equity of the sea shells to
believe. Especially low-income homeowners these effects
housing tremendously in a timer for certain natural
occurring. Affordable housing, I will recruit seniors in
the city of thing that we need to do better. I really
hopeful that was under the leadership of our chairman. We
can make this a priority and I look forward to working
together. Maybe there's a spare, we have a proposal that
would like to review cuz there's a lot of time to gain
here. And thank you again for women.
Spank.
Spanky.
Spank you all the men get your Lopez controller. How many
accounts additional accounts with that expansion taken? You
think I can get that for you? I don't have it off now. I
will make sure that we get a chance. Just curious if you
had a number. I didn't have to buy. Thank you madam.
Chairwoman, I'd first like to thank all them in Vegas for
your for your leadership on this issue as well as as well
as channel to for bringing this, you know, really bringing
this to the Forefront. And also chairwoman to offer before
I can be needing these hearings
It was.
It looks, it sounds like they're real.
It looks, it sounds like they're really, you know, three
buckets of problems listening to do all of you and
listening to some of the speakers. One of them is sort of,
there's a leak in the people don't know, you know, it's
kind of bucket. One pocket 2 is like an unauthorized use.
There's a, we heard about a squatter on the, on the
premises from one of the speakers, but it seems like
there's a third bucket where it's just wrong. One of the,
one of the speakers mentioned after an investigation that
the water bill was was forgiven and a focus on that. S
third bucket for up for a minute. I would, I would ask you,
might ask the distinguished members, you know, how does
that happen? And what can we do to solve it? And I don't
know if it's on the Water Department, side or on the
finance department side. So I my questions would be, you
know dr. Chang, when your office has gone out to do an
investigation and then subsequent forgiving the the water
bill, you know what what really happened in that situation
there where that happened?
and,
End.
And I control the ray winkel, if you would like to you
know, you can Alpine on that as well.
Thanks.
Ain't you all the time when we if it turns out that there is
something actually, you know, wrong with the bill, it could
be a lot of different things. You know, it could be like
what I was talking about earlier. You know the breeze are
depending on getting that that signal over to the radio,
frequency signals from the meter to the truck. If there's
an issue with the interference and we end up estimating
that could be one of the issues. And if there is something
where, you know, I know we had one case where it was
actually an empty building and it was the dial, the
register was at 0 and something happened, maybe some
shaking and it kicked to 9999. It was right on that edge.
Okay. Clearly, you know, it was an unoccupied building were
able to fix that and see that but to see what some of those
things are, why we're talking about, you know, going to the
new meter reads this time because there are more modern
options. Now we did Justin sell that system starting in
2007.
Papa technology moves fast so you know, Mark more modern
ones use cellular reads instead of radio-frequency, I had
what's called a fixed Network as opposed to Mobile. So we
don't need to drive by it eliminate some of those potential
areas for your human error or transmission error, in
addition to building a transparency. So usually it's it's,
you know, on those sort of issues that is related to you.
Mission or are
Mission or or human are in that process.
Turn.
Turn the finance side of those three buckets and I think
that's a good way of structuring. It Alderman of the
spikes, the they just a steak seems to be the the least
often they happen though and we hear we hear about it on
the finance side. Will we want to make sure that we're
structuring not so much on the, on the watering side is
that we can get faster at at relieving those issues when
it's clearly a mistake. I hate hearing stories about people
that it was clearly a mistake and then that doesn't get
forgiven for six months a year. That's where the process we
can get stronger at that and also, make sure that we're
strong and when we send out our bills, that's very clear
about what's going on. We can look at some other utility
bills like our ComEd and things are and how they present
information to make sure that people understand what's
going on.
Write, what's your thank you? Thank you, both. And it seems
like what we can do to speed up the conversion of cellular.
M, may may saw some of these some of these issues. Thank.
Thank you, Bob.
They?
Thank you very much, a question on a mission to change. How
much would it cost to change over to that cellular system?
and,
And how long do you think it would take to implement such a
system? I work at. We're figuring that out right now. I
don't have a number, we can Uber little in the process of
the RFI right now, so I'll see if we can get a, you know,
bracketed value for you but it will take a couple of years
without many, you know, number of meters to switch out will
switch out the meter and the type of transmitter, I'm so we
will face. And, you know, we'll have to look at which ones
we prioritise, whether it's the oldest first or 14. Maybe
we had billing issues before issued being a transmitter.
Maybe we'll do those first but when we did it originally
when we switch from manual, M to M are in 2007 to 2-3 years
and we did a geographically at that point in time. So we'll
be looking to figure out the most efficient way. And do you
anticipate there will see any of this movement in the
upcoming budget. Is this something you're trying to break
into our 2024 budget?
Yeah, it would.
Yeah, it was a part of our capital budget, so we'll be
looking to see if we get our arms are how much that car is
going to cost you to meet her Aid system setup for the
banner? The banner of billing system upgrade as part of
that, I T money that's already set aside but for the meter
reading they'll come out of our, you know, capital budget.
So we'll be seeing, you know, where we squeeze that in for
a CIP. Thank you all the men Taylor followed by all the men
Rodriguez.
Thank.
Thank you, ma'am.
Thank you, madam chair.
Call.
How many customers do we have in the city of Chicago? That
are without water.
Thank.
Thank you all the time that question. So it's a little hard
to say because he has some non-metered, folks. So if their
water, you know what has been shut off for requested to be
shut off? We don't always know that buy it for the number
that we hide during covid. We focused on getting the
reconnected through our program that we work on with
Department of Finance and Elevate or like reconnection
program to trying to reach out anyone who had previously
been shut off before they shut off ended to see if they
wanted their water turned back on. Thank you, kind of give
them wrap around Services, Finance helps getting a u b r &
N and Elevate helps if they needed that internal Plumbing.
So we've actually expanded that now and are working on a
contract to continue to work on those internal Plumbing
issues. Cuz often, if somebody is still a
Point without water. It's because of an internal plumbing
issue that they can't afford to fix. So, we need this new
contract, so we can help in that respect cuz sometimes you
turn on that b box and then it just starts leaking on the
inside and you have to turn right back off.
How to?
Go through the chair. Can we get that number? Can you tell
me how many counties are municipalities?
Old is
All the city of Chicago money.
We can get that number as well.
Alderman Taylor looking for communities that I owe the city
of Chicago. Absolutely. Because I find it real funny that
these counties and other folks have been old enough money
for years with water and they're not disconnected. But
y'all disconnecting the citizens were paid to represent in
so that's problematic.
It's a
So I want the numbers, I want to see how many people in the
city of Chicago water is off versus these municipalities
that aren't paying us, we had that whole conversation which
season last year. Does anybody remember?
Add.
I do it. So we're not getting paid from those Miss Polly's,
but we're not cutting off a water, but we're cutting off a
senior who ultimately, y'all could have got their water
bill wrong. And the thought that y'all bold enough to say
on here, you must pay the total amount due immediately or
into a payment plan, or we will you have a debt referral
wage garnishment property liens, personal judgment, and
suspicion suspension of City licenses even if y'all make
the mistake, does not say.
Do that to.
Do that 2 + 2 does not equal 4 and so do you all need to
ultimately fix it. Everything that we heard from the folks
who came to testify the day, you all have two big issues,
customer service, y'all suck. I don't answer the phone.
Nobody is able. A lot of this could be taking care of, if
you all would just answer the phone and people shouldn't
have to come to the Alderman's office to get us to enter
see when you all can just answer the phone. That's why I'm
number one number two. If if y'all took somebody's City
License over a mistake. I hope they sue. Y'all honestly
hope they said y'all because you're saying to us. The
problem seems to be the water in a meter.
How are you?
How are you know that when are people notified? Why do you
wait until they get these $187,000 bills for you say? It's
something wrong with your meter. Does the water is leaking?
It is, seems like y'all. Are y'all not taking the position
that y'all have very seriously. Water is a human right
there. Should not be anybody in the city of Chicago without
water.
but,
But we just signed a contract to get. What was a Joliet who
was it? Somebody Joliet water, I would love to see if they
don't pay their bill. What happened? Are you going to cut
off that that City by? We got to do something different. We
got to think about the people that were paid to represent.
And so for me, this is common sense. Some of this is easy
fixed. Why is everybody not getting to meet her? I keep
hearing this story. You got to call you. You, you should do
this know though if those M need to be replaced because
they're in a bad position, just replace them. I don't
understand why people got to call y'all to say, come come
change. The M, when y'all know that the fact that you, you
said it yourself. You all your own words. It's, it's
something wrong with the meeting, but then you got people
who get a $200,000 water bill and can't afford it. Then
I'll lose my license. I can lose my business. I can't even
stay on my phone because of your mistake.
that's,
That's a.
That's how we all love you. You see how that's not a
constituent problem that's on the water department. And so
I'm I can't wait to budget season to see what y'all asking
to spend cuz it, I don't know what you doing with the
money. We give you now based on all of these people who
stood here with their bills saying, they don't know why
they deal with them $100 to $4,000 and nobody can answer
down at the water department, or Finance. You don't have a
car. I hope you all asked me for that in the budget.
I saw like a
That's all I got mad.
That's all. I got mad. A thank you. Just want to follow up
on, then maybe we can get an answer.
From the question on the question on replacing multimeter.
How does that occur?
The.
Is that?
Is that automatic?
Mission.
Mission of Chang.
Rich.
Mission shame. The question was about replacing faulty. M.
How does that occur? And if you could also speak to, what
happens when people have leaks? Is that something that you
will automatically notify people of
Yeah.
Yeah, so we only read M once a month, but if we see what's
that RC code that I mentioned the running, continuous code
will send out a letter to small residential property
saying, hey, you might have a leak now, it might be that
they're actually using their water, you know, consistently,
maybe they're going to put it inside. I don't know, but we
want to let them know. Hey, heads up, check for your
property. There might be a leak at, but if you know that
sometimes it happens where they hire a plumber, plumber
doesn't see Lily. Then they might call 311 or call call
finance and say, hey I think something's going on, you
know, you all are seeing an RC code, we don't see a leak
and that's when we would send out an investigator.
and if I can, I'd love to have Deputy Commissioner, Mike
Rollo, I'm talking about the, the in detail, what we do
during an investigation,
Your boy.
Good morning. Can you please identify yourself for the
record and your position like remote. Deputy Commissioner
So as far as when we investigate a m leak first episode, if
a customer calls customer service, they have a complaint
Finance Department of Finance, customer service will triage
that they will create the service order up. So I can hear
me, realize that call, they will create a service order to
send us out to take a look at that meter. So the things
that we do, we do a physical check on the meter, make sure
it's not leaking, we can download some information off the
transmitter, which would we can create a report to send
out. If it comes down to it, we will pull that me to Route,
42, replace it with a new one. That's that meter back at
the shop, with the results in the system and recording, it
was Department of Finance on the results.
Thank you, control.
I want to First say, we'll make sure we get all the numbers
on the shut offs, as well as the additional municipalities
that Alderman, Taylor request to make sure that she has
that never won. I'm committed. I wanted to say it. So I've
only worked here for 2 months, but I worked in government a
long time and the frustration,
Often here.
Often here in government from residence, is I know you have
the information. Why are you making me? Guess why? I why am
I not getting that that information in a lot of the, the
situation that we come into as agency heads? Is that there
are it is difficult. Maybe maybe we need to have additional
Staffing or different technology or other items to make
sure that we're providing those services. But it's
incumbent on us, our job to be transparent with the people
that we work with that. We work for to make sure that they
understand what's happening with their bill. So what I am,
I am, I'm hopeful for is when talking with my team, we have
a lot of folks that are very interested in getting at the
issue that Alderman Taylor Rose. There is making sure that
if there is an issue that that person knows exactly what
the problem is from a finance side, what their options are
to fix it and that they're already started down.
Have to.
Have to pay.
Have to fix the issue. And if there are mitigating factors
where we don't understand what's going on, then come in on
us on the finance side to make sure that we're explaining
those to those residents. So as we have these issues come
up, I do want to work with city council and how we can
strengthen that. But I also it's my commitment that we will
work on improving how our bills. Look, how we're putting
out notices what other Communications we have all of our
different
songs of
Terms of communication that were taking best practices from
other cities, other sectors of the utilities and make sure
we're doing the best weekend.
Thank.
Thank you all the men Rodriguez filed by Alderman, more,
thank you, madam chair. Thank you Alderman Villegas for for
putting this together and doing your homework here and
bringing this example as before us. You know, it's not
uncommon in my office. I should restate that it's quite
too, to my office that we received from both businesses and
residents alike.
Bill's as egregious as what we're seeing in front of us
today. So we know what's happening in all parts of the
city. And
We?
We've got to do better. I'm particularly interested in a
line of questioning that Alderman. Taylor was going down as
it relates to our assistance, to the public. This could
potentially be out through the chair request, but I want to
get
a real understanding of the process in which constituents
go through once. They come from our office to the water
department. And how if there is an absolute egregious Bill
increase, how they are serviced, what's the front lines?
How we go about supporting to verify whether bills are
accurate or not?
I feel like this.
I feel like this request, this clear, if I need to get it
even clearer. I could, I could know, I think the request is
clear. I also think it's not just people who come to our
office for people who try to access the Department of Water
Management on their other Department of Finance on their
own. And I was about to go there because I think the line
of questioning, as well, from all the only Taylor was quite
clear as well regarding the fact that people make these
calls. I like to know, you know, are those city employees
that respond to those cause, you know, how how quickly they
corresponded to, we need to have metrics on this. So we
have some answers. Now, I'd love to hear some of them now,
but at the very least, I would like to see some of the dad
on this to the chair, but I would be curious if we can have
some initial response. And I have one more question. Thank
you, troller. Is that the thanks?
A.
I'm from our our, our team kind of walk through how we do
the Outreach side, and it would be helpful if we could get
through the chair. Like a flow chart, we can work on that.
Would you would you like to just briefly go over? Yes, I
would like you to answer all them in Rodriguez's question,
but I would like to get the same information and writing
for all the college. Absolutely.
La.
Los.
Well, she's approaching just on the flowchart. I like the
idea and I, I'd like to know how many staff are assigned
seats these points. And whether there's any Outsourcing in
his work.
Apps.
Absolute. Yeah and we we had we've come up with some flow
charts on a lot of our warning stuff for like the vehicle
pieces to will try to come up with something similar so
that everyone has it. Then all of the city council
Money.
morning.
Morning everyone. My name is Catherine wheeler. I'm the
deputy director over utility billing and customer service
and the Department of Finance with respect to taking
incoming, customer questions and complaints. We do have a
call center. We also receive input from customers by email,
with respect to the call center, we currently have 31 call
takers. Taking calls with respect to email. We currently
have seven individuals receiving and responding to emails.
The first line customer service experience is with an
outsourced slander after the first level of customer
experience. If that first level can't resolve the issue,
immediately and additional analysis is needed, that is done
by City staff and there's a total of 24 citistaff in our
division reviewing accounts reviewing billing with
It goes out.
It goes out adjusting accounts. If an issue is down with
the building last year, we received in the call center or
just short of 260,000 calls this year so far, I believe
this is through June be received about a hundred and
forty-nine thousand calls and our call wait time last year
averaged about 7 minutes and 20 seconds this year. We've
made great improvements and it's averaging 1 minute and 35
seconds. And if I didn't address the part of your question,
I think you had additional questions about. How do we deal
with? Just because once they come in, so my Grillo from
Water Management spoke to part of that already. If there's
a issue with a M we do set up appointments for M
inspections and replacements for the Department of Water
Management and work closely with them on that. Once the
information comes back in from the field, we review those
service orders and ensure that the building was correct. Or
if we determine, it was incorrect. We correct it. So
typically,
The.
The me.
The meat.
The meter situation if they're replacing, the meter will
have information from a service order that we review.
Typically meter reading is also taken at that time. And
certainly, if the meter is replaced, we will receive the
final reading off the Mike. Also mentioned that they do
meter testing at the meter shop and that we have access to
those records during the test results. So we review those
as well before coming to a final determination about
whether the account was correctly or not.
and,
And if there's other pieces that we need, will make sure
that we follow up to that were there additional questions.
Yeah. Just just on another topic new technologies. I just
want to caution the body and and you know the Commissioners
been out with us as well as others from the water
department on what I would just call model block as far as
yeah, they
Yeah, the replacement of LED service lines, we've noticed a
lot of rust reticence particularly from some homeowners to
new technologies and we need to meet remain Vigilant and
mindful. Reticence and getting over that I think there's
been some creative ways to address that practically
assuring kind of knows. No increase. Is on water bills in
some cases but communication is key. Communication, native
languages is key, communication of furnace key. And we even
saw that you do free. Free lip service to my Replacements
were being accepted by some of our constituents per ticket
because their lack of confidence in government, right? I
think that's one of the reasons there might be others. So
we've got a long way ahead of us even getting folks on
board in believing in the changes in technology. So I just
want to caution the body and and and make sure that that's
I keep.
A key strategy in moving forward with our constituents.
Thank you. Ma'am. Check. Thank you. Thank you Alderman.
Rodriguez, all them until you had a point of information,
but we also are saying these calls to why is there a source
vendor?
She?
She said that we is a call center and it's a house with
vendor. Why? And who are we are Outsourcing. I wasn't I
wasn't here for the original time of that. Is I can go
research that and I'll get back to you right away. I can
tell you when I work for the state we we had some vendors
cuz that ended up actually being more efficient for certain
items but then we went away from outside vendors, when it
became 22 onuris on on, on the system as a whole. So I'll
investigate that make sure that we have correct answer for
you. Thank you. Thank him. And see if we can get that in
and get that information to everyone through the chair, all
the men, more followed by all the men, Cardona and Hall.
Thank.
Thank you, Champion Vegas. Thank you for bringing this
matter to the council, and thank you. I'm chairman down for
hearing this here first question that I have. And it's, I
just want to make sure the senior, but that came up with
her son. Is someone addressing her issue. Is someone
working with her.
I'll
I will tell you that we're taking notes on the all of that.
I'm I and we if we're not currently addressing it will
address it to me. I should somebody get with him and dance.
I would like to follow up, you know, when that's when it's
finalized. So someone make sure on the apartment get with
them today, that make sure you have that information and
making sure that her concerns are being addressed. And I
would not like to know the outcome of that, my second one.
And it's something that you mention it, and I appreciate it
appeals. I'm reminded just working at the border review
from a tax stamp Point, unless you forget to pay your
taxes, or there's some erroneous stuff, you could have had
a vacant home and then you go back, 3 years or whatever.
And you can appeal, what are we doing? Is that as a process
now? Because especially, as the ones that I get a lot or my
house has been vacant mostly. Why haven't, you know, I had
a tenant there.
And if somebody can produce evidence as we produce at the
border review to get with his going back three years you
know for some type of refund or you no correction what are
we doing now? Or was that just a hope that you can get to
doing appeals currently information? If a digital
information becomes available? Whether it's through the
resident or some other factors that get factored in? And
then we're kind of bound by statute on. What the what are
what are that are means to be able to rectify the issue. So
statutorily, we can't forgive items if it's, if it's the
actual leak, if there is some extenuating circumstance
where it's clearly erroneous or there's something else that
we can we can address. But what I'd like to work with city
council and obviously the our sister agencies and
Read.
Run.
Rather.
Residence is maybe more of an appeal process, so that some
of those items where yes water was used, but it was extreme
and there is extenuating circumstances where it would seem
unreasonable to the individual and everyone involved that
that should be the full amount or or things like that on
whether we could go back on smoothing, you know, the last
three or four bills to make sure that that works those sort
of items to have that tool kit for that.
situations, we
Situations where you have the extreme water bill even if the
water was was there, but there was some sort of mitigating
factor that we can all agree to on that, something we'd
like to work with you on. So, based on what you just said,
and I appreciate that right now. Is there a AAA set process
and in terms of appeals? And if so is that like is distance
that appeal section or whoever gets it, then try to do it
in his that consistent. There's no formal appeal process.
If there's if there's an issue that can't be rectified
early on it, get it get elevated to the that you know what,
kind of the division management staff to kind of work
through those specific issues. We're actually talking about
a fairly small overall, it's a large amount but a small
compared to the amount of bills we send out. So we can try
to work through a lot of those individually. So when there
are mitigating factors that we can take it to a
We were.
We will.
But there.
But there's no formal process for making sure that we are
hitting all those particular issues. And I think you just
you hit on and I think we really should consider one and
end in at work on doing one. And I like to see how that you
are. Not my last one, and it is the commissioner said at
the end and I can attest to it. And that's in terms of
sending letters out. But I have to say, I don't know how
consistent that is. I need to know how consist
is because
Play is because under the email, Emanuel Administration and
because of the way, my toilet was not here to get it fixed.
You flush it and then it won't go up. I used to get a
letter all the time, like your, your toilet has been
running for the last 24 or 48 hours in like what, you know.
And so I had to get it fixed based on that. It's happened
again a few times and I have not been receiving that
letter. So I want I want to know that has that stopped. Is
there an inconsistency somewhere or what?
and you're
And you're all the rent. Yeah. So would the way Darcy code
works is if your water has been running at least 2 hours in
the 24 hours prior to when the meter is Brad, that's what
triggers it. So it's possible that your water what you
know, could have been running intermittently say for maybe
an hour and a half, or maybe it exceeds the to our
threshold and sometimes it could be legitimate, right? You
might be doing a ton of laundry or something, where you
actually have a lot of water being used for a while so
that's how it measures it. So the toilet running usually
pretty consistent right. It's kind of always running or
running pretty regularly so usually that would trigger an
RC code but if you had a legitimate usage or maybe just an
intermittent leak, you might not get them every month. But
every time that we see that trigger, that's when a letter
is sent out. So you only see that trigger went as a reader.
I was assuming that it was
You already.
You all were noticing something without somebody coming and
reading know our new system that we like to get would be
more like that when we'd have read that are more like
hourly or daily but with us only reading once a month when
we get that read that's when that RC would be triggered. A
technology that time is other options now. Alright thank
you. Thank you. Thank you all the way more Alderman.
Cardona. Followed by call Olga Munhall followed by old man
basket and then we'll close with all the movie agus. Thank
you. Your woman. Got you. Thank you to your woman.
Optimus.
I'll miss Fasano, I did not count you towards form but I
will
And okay, got you.
Okay, thank you, Karen bone for this and also altering
Behavior Villegas for talking about the bills and so forth.
I got to I have a couple questions.
I know that on the bill as you can see if a senior
qualifies as a senior who has a single-family home, what
are the credits that they get discounted or any if they do?
So, seniors that have their own home, senior exemption, as
if you had a senior exemption or senior freeze, you get
discount on your, on your, on your water bill. So can you
tell me which are the credits that they do? Receive
Boys.
For the city at. Let me hang on one second, apologies.
Do for seniors who reside in and owned a single-family
home. I believe the age cutoff for that is 65 and plus who
submit an application, they receive 100% off their
supercharged at 100% off their super attacks charge. That's
for the senior sewer exemption. If the customer also has
the senior freeze with Cook County exemption with Cook
County, then they are eligible for 50% off of the refuse
charge. So the refuse charge is $9.50 per month. So for a
single-family home with one dwelling unit, that would be
that charge, they would get half off that.
and,
Panda.
And no penalty charges. How about seniors at home to Flats?
Because it's it's their house but they are family their
children or live on the first floor or second floor. Is
there a discounted on that? So unfortunately. No you have
to have at your own account, basically, sew your own
metered service or own assessment. So for a two-flat
properties are billed on a, on a property basis.
There are two.
There are two flat you would not be eligible for the senior
exemption you could potentially eligible for the senior
discount, on the garbage charge of you because you are
still potentially eligible for that with Cook County for
the senior freeze. I think we need to do a little bit more
for the seniors who have two Flats, because I get a lot of
them who do qualify for senior freezing and Senior
exemption, but they don't qualify for at least a credit on
their water bill. And, you know, it's not fair that, you
know, throughout the city of Chicago, the seniors have to
be burden on this. If it's easier for them to live in a
single-family home, I think we need to do better to look at
seniors at have two flats and see if we could help them out
with some kind of credit. Do you know what M, do you have a
data of old M that are still out there working?
I'm running.
Running.
I'm at, we can get that in the chair that the age of M.
Okay, is there a way reaching out to those folks? Who had
the old M to see if we can replace them with the new
technology that we're working right now. We have an RFI to
see which new technology we want to use, but once we figure
that out, most likely would prioritise some of the oldest
ones or anyone that might have already, you know, issues
any kind of issues we've seen with the transmitter. I'm
with my colleagues. You know. You got Finance has to do a
better job with customer service because most of the
residents are constituents or resident to come to our
office, they're having issues on the on the other end of
Finance or water department, trying to get to express
what's going on with the water bill. And sometimes the
customer service rep for the finance or water department,
doesn't want to hear it.
Percentage.
Are sending their own tone and I'll need to be a little bit
more compassion for get the facts but try and go out of
their way to try and find a solution to help the resident
out and their situation. Because I mean like oven Taylor
said, you know, these Suburban municipalities and also
cities that are using using Michigan water and it's going
through us and we have to charge and some of them having
paid and we know that some of these means that they haven't
been paying up further utility for utilizing the water. I
mean, we need to do better at a better job in trying to
recapture that money, but also at the same time, finding a
solution for our residents. I mean, it's not fair that this
senior, what was charged $45,000 in $16,000, and she had a
cell. I mean, that's not right. I mean, we need to do a
better job as a city and also departments communicating
with each other because it from what I'm seeing.
Can I be?
And I've been here.
And I've been here turned apartments on like to communicate
with each other and it's Lost in Translation. So I think we
need to do a better job in addressing those issues. And I
think once we address them and we find a solution for this
to freeze water bills at that are, there are being
calculated. We will be in a better place, and we won't have
people leaving, or basically losing their homes, because
they can't afford a simple water bill. But on that note,
thank you. Chairman
Thank you. I
Thank you, love me.
Thank you. Lord May Cardona. Does that? Senior exemption?
Apply to seniors who have their own account but live in
Condominiums.
Senior exemption does not apply to seniors who live in
Condominiums. There is an annual $50, senior rebate. That
customers who own and live in a condominium or townhome or
Co-op unit, where the building received the bill and the
individual does not receive the bill, they can qualify for
an annual $50 senior sewer rebate.
And we can look at to the Alderman's Point, making sure
that we review what it would look like to expand any senior
programs with that, would what, how many that would impact
and what the cost might look like.
What are?
One of information Alderman, card information when you have
a 2 flats year olds with two flat, it's one deed snot
multiple. So 9:40 are their name but they have family
members that live in the first floor or second for whatever
it is. But I think it should be if they get one or the
other, they should be entitled to a credit on the water
bill and we can work with you on that cuz we've noticed a
similar thing with some three Flats as well. So thank you
for the feedback. Thank you all the Munhall followed by
Alderman Vasquez. Good morning.
What exit will first think the commissioner, we've had some
issues in the Sixth Ward with some old water, mains, and
thank you. And I first Deputy for responding and very
timely manner to stop very big water problems. My first
question is to that in how much of the water bill? How much
of the infrastructure that we need to be invested? How much
is that shows up on a water bill?
Order.
Or does it?
Yeah. I mean I'm thinking about how you break it down but
basically when you look at that water bill that's going
towards, you know, water operation sewer operations. You
know that the debt for our capital I will, I will think
about what that breakdown that might look like specifically
for like Capital replacement repair would be a very big
portion of that.
I'm reminded of how the state controller, sends out a tax,
a piece, and then it has a breakdown of where your payments
are actually going toward from the Stateside that we've
talked internally about whether or not we could come up
with similar Graphics or something for a bill down the
road. And if that's something that you're interested in
talking with Alderman, I'd be interested in talking to you
about this. Well, there's going to be some tough son,
marries, it'll be tough to capture but to be kind of
transparent.
The constituents on on, where your money is going. I think
we could we could talk through that. So, basically there's
no point of reference. When we look at a bill, how much
goes towards infrastructure and fruit
Hitting.
hitting the
Sitting there wouldn't be a D6 as the other question is we
mentioned technology? Could you explain? How does the
technology work or does it even exists where residents can
see in real-time, how much water they're using? Does that
technology exist? Are there any plans for it? Because we've
heard time and time again, you know, I didn't know, I
didn't hear or six swimming pools worth of Walmart in, in
a, in a home where a mother and a daughter. So, is there
any technology available? We're a resident? Can go online
and see, how much were they using in real time? Or in the
last time you all captured it?
Knock.
Yeah, not currently, but that's what we're moving toward. So
that fix this time, I mention with the cellular read, you
know what you end up doing is having
things that you dare throughout the city to help transmit
that data on through the cellular system on a more regular
basis by the right, whether that be hourly or whatever we,
you know choose so that they could get that Amor real time.
And when we first put in their technology in 2007, there
wasn't enough M accounts to make that functional at the
time. It was in its infancy in terms of Technology, but now
it's really well developed. So that's where we'll be able
to get that piece of transparency. So, people know about an
abnormal water usage sooner than once a month. And we don't
have a time frame to write at we're working on RFI right
now. The other question I have is the appeal process,
right? So we heard testimony of individuals who had some
out, the root water bills and so the appeal process,
Could you?
Could you play?
Could you explain?
could you explain it one more time cuz I was a little
confused. So if I get a bill that makes no common sense, if
I get a parking ticket in his an alleged violation, I go
right to the hearing, I can go right away, I can write. So
what's the process again? If you get out the box, water
bill to say, hey this doesn't make sense, I think it might
not be right.
For more details. But as, as it comes through, if it's
determined that on, on the water side, that it is an actual
usage, it really isn't an appeal process beyond that. That
part you can. You can can test it, but ultimately, it is
difficult. We're not allowed to forgive any of that, that
that's in statute. We'd like to work, with Council on a, a
process, to make sure that those situations we have the
ability to rectify them, that would give you no reasonable
understanding. Two individuals that have extreme bills like
that for the, for the, for the situation where it
determines their wasn't. You know, there was actually a
leak or something like there was other an error. We would
forgive that we we are working on making sure that that is
a quicker process and that
The individual has.
The individual has more information as we heard their people
that feel like they just didn't get any information at all,
and that's incumbent on us. Strengthen our process on that.
I can turn to a cat if she hasn't not too much extra. Just
that when the customer calls in the customer, service staff
will look at the account with the customer that they can go
over the financial history with the customer. They can go
over that history readings. If it's a m to count, they can
go over how the bill is being assessed if it's a non M to
count. If there is a spike in usage that and it makes sense
for water management to go and take a look at the M confirm
the meter reading may be potentially replace the meter so
that it can be tested. The customer service staff can set
up an appointment for the Water Management. Come to the
customers properly and do that. They do need appointment.
Since most of the water meters are inside of the properties
of water, management will do their inspection, they'll do
the meter. Testing that information will be provided to us.
and,
At.
At the Department of Finance. And once we receive that will
review, the information coming in from them, and make a
determination about whether the account was properly build
or not, if it was not properly. Build then we would crack
that through an adjustment. One of us formation Alderman
Vasquez.
Thank you. Are
Thank you, Laura.
Thank.
Thank you, I'll check on it. So when information for that
process you just described. What's the average amount of
time that takes
It would.
It would be depending on the, on the. So it's a great
question, you know, we try to work on improving and as you
heard from our call center, get down on that time. A lot of
these very specific issues. They can take long and it be
depending on the issue. I'll try to get a formal number for
you. I'm to look at the ones that when we're dealing with
just spikes, I think if we are just dealing with calls in
general, it would be low number, but it wouldn't really
capture that issue that's going on. So try to tease that
out for you cuz that is that just for 4 days, weeks months,
like what does that go there? I mean, if they're just
calling in a lot of issues are handled in that one, call
and tell him in that situation, that would be short. But
then, as you've heard their situations where it goes on for
months or even years in some of those cases. So, I'd like
to tease
How to?
How to show you?
How to show you and then where we can step up to to fix
those issues. Thank you all. So just so I mean, including
so as of right now, residents have no access to see water
usage in real-time there statue of limitations for them to
get Justice for the Injustice of water meters. That are not
accurately, pay me the picture of the usage. And then the
amount of money that we pay, and I would have bills, we
don't know how much is being used to improve the
infrastructure, as well as the Necessary Technology to make
it Equitable for everybody in Chicago because it seems as
if it's coming soon, the technology to give updates and
real-time it seems as if there's a statute limitation on
what's the process for you to really get Justice? There is
a process but there's some limitations to really
Before coming a statue of limitation for a limitation
there's no time. The statute, forbids me from forgiving
debt. That's a result of a leak. Also, even if there was a
situation where somebody had a really high Bill and it was
Determine.
determined, there was a
Determined there was a leak and we even agree as everybody
in the room. And that's actually a fairly unreasonable
situation that individual wouldn't have known about that
leak the statute, forbids me from forgiving that, that that
bill. So what we were discussing is and the reason for that
just so you know, is we bond out or water and the
bondholders want to make sure that there is a mass
forgiveness on a bunch of different items. But there's got
to be a middle ground here with their these extreme jumps
and bills. And they are a small portion of the revenue that
we pull in to be able to have more authority to fix those
issues. Right now, we cannot adjust them. If it is an
actual leak, is that make sense? But it does make things,
right? And I agree with you,
A point of clarification Alderman, more just on his
statement. So I can be clear about the bond t-shirt. The
bond is not based on all this overtime. It's basically
based on what I'm saying is for Revenue collection that
we're going to have bonded out there wants to be clear from
whatever bonding Authority is that it's clear that we're
not going to stop Suddenly at collecting that Revenue. So
there's Provisions within our statue, in a lot of items to
make sure that the city doesn't suddenly stopped collecting
certain revenues.
Scituate.
What situation we have a provision in there to make sure
that we're collecting the revenue that the city is old. But
there are these situations that come up where there's a
reasonable spike in that, in that bill, that might be
caused by a league with the resident. Might not have been
aware of it, or even if there were, there was other
extenuating circumstances. But statutorily, we can't
necessarily, we can't fix that bill. I think we can work
together to figure out what would need to be changed. So we
can do that going forward. Which is you know why I said
that in my opening statement thank you all them at home if
you have other questions. No, I'm good. Thank you, thank
you, thank you for this and thank you to the commissioner's
on a comptroller acacian. When you're saying statutory, is
that state law that needs to be changed or is that City
Council?
Okay.
Okay, got it. Just wanted to make sure I can give you the
site if you want it. No, that's one of my questions. So I
when I appreciated the department of financial statements
regarding, like, you be our expansion targeting because you
see, kind of the inequities program recommendations as well
as process changes. If you could do the chair actually send
us like either either a list or a memo of recommendations,
including a change of musical code, that would be super
helpful for those of us who want to make those changes to
help you out.
They're all.
there are also probably for
There are also probably further conversations that we would
like to have with every member to make sure we doing this
in the appropriate. What? Yeah, I would greatly appreciate
it, so I appreciate the answers and it's an improvement
with this being government. The frustration is the lack of
speed with which that happened. And I believe, as the
Sherman VA gives to others that a lot of it is
modernization and technology, which is what I'm hearing
here. What is the plan for modernization? Who in the
Department's, easily on that plan? And what are the
timeline? Because a lot of time we here yet, we know they
have to be improvements. We're looking at, it's going to
happen but the timeline will be gears out and by the time
you get to those Solutions, you have other solutions that
haven't been fixed. And so I think it's not the most
exciting part of government, but I think fixing that is
what gets everything else moving. So, just want to get to
send something like, who on the team's leaves as far as
modernization. So we can.
Follow up and have.
Follow up and have accountability there.
Make.
Thank.
Thank you very much. And I'm so in terms of water heater
Tackett is water management. And consult with a I asked
Italy for a billing system and you know, those and we work
on together and we'll be happy to you know partner with you
in a week. You know me I like Tech. We we put out all the
manager portal at, I like to modernize and we usually do so
rapidly. This is a very big project like just looking at
the number of meters, right. We want to get this, right?
Because last time you do you put in, we put in that text
but it didn't exactly talk about. It took a long time, back
in 2007, and maybe if we'd waited a year or two we made, we
would have had to fix network, right? So I want to make
sure we're really looking at this and put the bus thing,
and that's going to be a great system for the next twenty
years. Mr. Warren. I know, then when I recognized you as
the it man in the box there, if you could opine on his me,
speak to altamed Vasquez,
Good morning everyone. Yes. I'm based in the capital bonds
that we have. We have made provisions and we have started
the kickoff meeting to start looking at those innovations
that we need to do for those systems. Just last Friday, we
had a kickoff meeting in regards to that Diner. Utility
Billing System to do a discovery meeting so that we can
look at the
Previous country.
Previous contract that was established over 20 years ago.
Also, being the fact that most of the subject matter,
experts are no longer with the city. So we're looking at
those things, putting everything together, bringing all the
stakeholders together so that we can strategically plan on
how to implement whatever that new system is. We have to do
some research and go out into the industry to see what
technology is actually available as we look at this. When I
make sure it's something that we could scale and grow up on
in the future. Looking at, with looking at, as, we're
managing outdated Legacy systems today.
and,
and the
And then in terms of process, I had that something work on
right now and we end as I've come into there's a couple of
different processes that I've been working with our Senior
Team here, Joe and Elaine and cats to make sure that we
Implement you know, now within the next few weeks and
months to make sure that we're tightening up this process.
Okay. So we would definitely like to be in on those
conversations. We've been doing it with 311 for example to
kind of lead lead on some of this. So please lupus and I
love that night my concern and I appreciate the
Commissioners answer is that when he answer ends up being a
is it doesn't end up working because a is should not have
been a is it should have been to FM and an actual data
information technology department separate from each other.
So I just want to highlight that it will continue to as we
talked budget because if we don't make that face,
Everything.
everything to go, see a
Everything to go see is is going to get clogged up and it
slows things down as does procurement when we're talking
about rfi's rfps, right? So, okay, thank you for that next.
Sorry point of information Alderman Moore.
It was just said that, we no longer have the subject matter
experts. I'm lost. What happened to him? I don't know what
you're talkin about. The subject matter experts anymore.
Do.
Do that man, is that system or help develop a system
previously and along with the city right now is like, this
problem is not new, but I want to make sure that I have an
understanding of the meetings and who's in that meeting
came together in regards to us. Identify when we look at
all the systems that the city has all the systems that are
Legacy outdated or something that we need to take action
on. Ya know we got you, one of y'all. The other argument
mentioned that we had the Strategic plan for some time, but
we haven't had anyone to execute on it. We understand the
issues and concerns. We understand those systems, not only
the banner but other systems like the Erp system that we're
working on for working together to see how do we physically
put these actions together so we can move Chicago for me.
This is why we.
This is why we need a specific.
This is why we need a specific Department. That's like I T
data across all of them to kind of work through. So just
just thank you for that by next. This is a little old
school but can we get or charts for both of the
Department's cuz we don't have that even as Alders when
you're trying to escalate things which leaves us calling
Commissioners? Rather than like a precise people who would
help depending on the situation. Absolutely. Okay. So this
is what I got from our team. Why is the Department of
Finance customer service separate from? Like, the 311 this
dumb is that the case, where somebody calling for three?
And one of my water bill that instead, get routed somewhere
else rather than a seamless process.
so,
So, I can confirm that, that that is the case. We do have
our own call center utility billing and customer service.
I'm not really sure that I can speak to the why
specifically, but that is the case I am at the water
department speak to this, but for you. No water leaks and
Urgent issues. That is something that folks should be
calling 3114. And then from there, those calls will be
routed appropriately, the calls that come to our area, our
billing specific, and typically not emergency issues. And
by that, I mean like my, my water is out and it's 110° or
like, you know, I have a water leak and I need assistance
immediately.
but,
But as we look through our processes to improve, those will
communicate and make sure your lived in on some of that at
the level where we end up being a stopgap, right? They go.
Hey, we called this is an issue. They call our office.
We've been brought to dof and have to follow up again. I
think
I know.
I think.
I think I can describe the sum of my questions cuz what it
what it boils down to is the same issue, it's not exclusive
the department. It's a fact that we don't actually
modernized and the folks who are charged the Martin Dies
don't have their own Department to them. Look across all
the other ones to improve that whole system. And if you
don't have that top down, each one's trying to do it in
Silo, in a way that leads to more outdated technology,
different systems that don't speak to each other and larger
problems. So yeah, we'll be taking that on for everybody.
Sees until we try for another day. You all right?
where,
Where is?
Where's the?
Where is that? Call center located? Is it in Chicago?
Right.
Right now, the call center right now, the call center is
operating virtually still from their homes. Most people
are, but everyone is in the Chicago metro area, most of the
staff is in Chicago specifically, thank you all the men.
Sposato
Thank.
Anchorman armchair. I came a little late, so I'm just only
have some comments. When I say, I'll be brief. I promise to
be brief. So, coming from the school of appraising public
schools and private two things. I just went on, fortunately
not many colleagues are left. So commissioner I almost
never call you and ask because I used to call Marisol, so I
would recommend to my college. If you have issues to reach
out the Marisol, Marisol, I know you're listening. Please
don't be mad at me. And then, secondly, Kathleen never met
you probably called you up five or six times.
Peter Grimm.
Peter Griffin was great, you're just as great, you have
billing problems, people just reach out to Kathleen. She's
very responsive gets things done. So it's a great
opportunity for me to thank you for what you've done for me
in the past and responsiveness. So hopefully, all my
colleagues don't pile on you and call you all the time now,
but thanks for everything. So that's all I wanted to say.
Raise in Publix call them private. So I made him chair. So
I just want to thank those. People are all they do. And
also lastly it be great if we could meet her everybody like
tomorrow but that's an impossibility. Commissioner I'm
guessing it would take forever to give everybody a m and
then everybody doesn't want to meet her. So it's a near
impossibility. I know many of people in my community. Do I
M? Because they like the water, the grass, or they have
pools. So don't want to pay the extra
Paper.
Paperback.
A band. So that everybody wants to meet her, but thank you,
I'll Kathleen, especially for helping me out with my
billing problem. Thank you. Thank you, man. I'm sure you're
welcome Alderman. Sposato, and I'll add a lease to that
list as well Alderman. Hopkins.
Thank.
Thank you, man. I'm sure you just want to point out that my
opinion. We could do a better job of educating the home
owners and residents of Chicago. On the most common water
leak that happens in homes. According to our friends, at
local 130 plumbers Union. They tell us that they call it
the silent leak because right, exactly, Nick, it doesn't
involve any visible evidence of the fact that you have a
leak at all. Most people think if you have a water leak
somewhere in your home, you're going to see it. You can see
water on the floor water where it doesn't belong. Coming to
the ceiling, whatever. But in fact, a very small $5 item
called a flapper valve, which is in the toilet box is the
most typical source of a water leak and when that Bell
fails, the water simply runs from the box into the toilet
on a constant basis. You may not even hear it because the
sound of a toilet after its flushed is so, Nan.
It's like the sound of your refrigerator is.
It's like the sound of your refrigerator. It's there in the
background, but it's almost invisible to your ears because
you just, you're so used to hearing it. So, a toilet, in
that condition is constant. We having water flow from the
box into the ball and down into the sewer, and that's going
to show up on the meter. When people say what my M must be
broken. Actually know, in this case, the M functioning
precisely as its design, it's measuring this constant flow
of water. That is in a sense, being wasted and that
happens. So frequently and plumbers tell us, that's one of
the more common cause that they get. So the average
homeowner doesn't know that they call the water department
because of a bill, why aren't we informing them of this
typical situation? So they could at least investigate it
out for themselves, it should be on the website. It should
be something that we can train our call center people, to,
to suggest you take a look at your toilet. See, if you
know, if that's the the case that could stop.
A lot of.
A lot of Acts going forward. And again, since our friends
at local 130 plumbers tell us, this is the most common
household League situation. We should be doing a little bit
better job of educating the average person and telling them
that this is a possibility I'll so they can look into it
for themselves and possibly remedy. The problem saving
everybody a lot of time and money. Thank you for having
this hearing Alderman Villegas. Thank you that a thank-you
Alderman, Hopkins. I was the one that had that little
silence.
Acai.
Ass ass.
Assassin on, call it and did not know until I had a plumber
come in and tell me what the problem was, I was paying
those High bills, so you're absolutely right Alderman,
Villegas, thank you for bringing this before the committee
today. I think all of us have learned more about the
Department of Water, and the Billing System would like for
you to close and to also speak to how you will follow up
from this committee meeting today.
Wake.
Thank you. Thank you, madam chair. Thank you for for
hosting this hearing and I want to say because Stitch wants
that actually came out of my testimony in person. Thank you
for taking time, out of your schedule to bring to this
body, the issues that you have gone through. And let me be
the first to apologize that you were treated in the way
that you were treated. And that's not the way that the city
operates and that's not the way the city should operate.
There.
there's,
There's a lot of work to be done here and as someone who's
been a huge proponent of technology and someone who
supports the IT department to the point where we were able
to put in 350 million dollars of capital dollars to upgrade
our it we've got to do that quickly because there's cost.
Savings associated with.
Savings associated with that. There is a better experience
for constituents. That can be come from it, as well as
getting business is up and running quicker. So Technologies
there to, to serve a couple of functions, and we just need
to do a better job of getting it implemented. We do have
that plan in place as I stated the Garner report and we
have to do, we do have the funding available. We just need
a c. I o n place. So that way we can get them him or her to
quarterback this initiative.
Is.
As.
As relates to some of the legislation chased it that you
mention. We definitely want to take a look at amending that
if possible and making sure that were in compliance with
what the bond language is, making sure that we're not
putting ourselves at risk to run if we want to revisit that
because to your point, it is a small fracture and we have
to make sure that we're listening to our constituents, what
I've heard is a zarf eyes and this and that, and I think
that time is of the essence time is of the essence. We've
been talking about this for a few years now, this whole
water billing issue and we can't continue to keep talking
about it. We've got to have action and I'm going to be
working with the the body, as well as the administration
put some time frames around this so that we can measure it
and get it done. Finally, get it done. There's no reason
why people that are utilizing water.
And everyone knew.
And everyone needs water.
And everyone needs water is is putting these situations
where they're seeing or being over built right by tens of
thousands of dollars. I can't even imagine the stress of
senior opening a bill and seeing a water bill that's worth
more than their house in some instances. And I'm putting in
an unburdened stress on this person. And I stated before
the 2019, we've doubled the fines and fees and bankruptcy
was the number one issue, fines and fees. What was the
number one issue for Chicago's declare bankruptcy? We were
putting our own residence in bankruptcy court fines and
fees.
Sometime.
It's some kind.
It's unconscious, we can't do that. And so I see that this
is another issue that's coming on that passed. And I want
to make sure that we're addressing it. Cuz this is a big
issue through the chair comptroller. Could you send us
Curl.
Current.
Currently, how much is the city currently old and fines and
fees for water bills alone? Yes, it will make sure that we
do.
Yep, and then you're also going to set us a flowchart and
how the billing process works.
Is it?
Is a couple questions I had. Just want to make sure I get
confirmation on that. And then with that flow chart, could
you also include in their, the communication that takes
place between the Departments and said, he certainly, okay?
And it during billing disputes, a customer still being
charged fines and fees during the dispute or just do the
meter keep running Blackbird. Pardon the pun, does the
meter keep running. It depends on the situation, but we can
provide for their scenarios for how that might work. And
that is an area that I like to work with this body on
fixing or working on.
and then say, is
Is this one of the sections that you're looking to improve?
I know you mentioned Banner, 90, Banner, some Legacy system
that's in place. Is that something we're looking to upgrade
and what's the time frame on that?
Thank.
Thank you. Yes it is something that we're looking to
upgrade again where in the discovery phase is. So we
haven't put timelines and time for him and cost to that at
the present time. I appreciate that. I guess there's a
sense of urgency from from us. Absolutely. I agree. This is
not something that's now hold that are doing the bill for
water on him and a pretty good job. And so I recommend
that you'll
That you look at some of the larger municipalities or some
of the largest cities in the country in the, in the country
where there's New York LA and how they, how they are
providing building because we got to fix this. So I'm
committed to working with, with all of you to address this
issue, working with women, as well on this issue because we
got to do what we got to. We got to get this right, we got
to get this right. People, don't mind paying for services,
that are provided just don't like to be gouged. And what
we're seeing here is people are being down. I know it's a
small percentage of folks, but when you saw the the the
senior citizen
Pay.
paying the
Paying the water bill, even those in dispute and now has to
sue the city to recover that, but that's something that we
should not be doing. So I'm going to be working closely
with my staff will be reaching out and I'll be reaching out
to you as well, but I want to take my colleagues for, for
taking time, on a think you turned out as well again for
her, having his hearing. So thank you and looking forward
to working with you. Thank you for your leadership on this
issue. This is been a good meeting. I also want to thank
dr. Carol and Doctor Evans, or coming and giving their
expert testimony. And there being no further business
before the committee today. Can I get a motion to adjourn?
Stop.
Somos by Alderman more to adjourn all those in favor.
Signify by saying, I
And your opinion of the chair. The eyes have it, the
committee on finance is hereby adjourned.