notice having arrived and, uh, believe Quorum is present.
Uh, we will convene the meeting. Uh, before we do just to,
uh, brief announcement about the rules which uh, have been
repeated uh, at the beginning of meetings for some months
now. So you all should be familiar with them but I just
want to issue a couple of reminders. Uh, you do have the
right as the member of the public to your 3 minutes to
participate in the meeting. Um, but others here have rights
also. Uh, they have a
Right, to a comfortable environment, uh, free from
violations of decorum. So during the course of your 3
minutes, uh, please do not violate the rights of others by
using profane vulgar threatening or abusive language. Uh,
you also must remain seated, unless it is your time to
testify and you may use small handheld devices. Uh, but you
again must remain seated while you use those devices. Any
violation of these rules during your appointed 3 minutes
will result in the termination of your 3 minute period and
you will be removed from the meeting and you will not be
allowed to return for the duration of this meeting. Uh, and
again, that is to respect the rights of others, uh, to have
a meeting free from, uh, disruption and uh, and file
language. Uh, so with that, we will take the role
Uh, chairman Hopkins here, Vice chairman jansy.
Alderman, Chico.
Alderman Gutierrez.
Alderman Lopez.
Alderman. Curtis
Alderwoman tabaris.
Alderman sincho Lopez.
Alderman, sinol Lopez.
Oh, gotcha. Okay.
Uh, alderwoman Fuentes rule. 59, Alderman Talya, Ferro.
Alderman's pisado.
Alderman Vasquez.
Alderman. Kuden.
Alderman, Gardiner.
Alderman. Martin.
Alderwoman manah hoppenworth.
Alderwoman Haden.
Alderman Silverstein.
Uh, we also have with us, uh, Alderman Moore, uh, who is
not a member of the committee, but his requested remote
participation, uh, that will be granted.
So we will uh ask for a motion to allow for rule 59 of
Elder, woman Fuentes and Alderman Moore.
Moved by Alderman Lopez hearing no objection. All in favor.
Thank you.
We do have Quorum. Thank you.
We will begin with the public testimony. Uh, our first
public witness is Pastor. Donivan Price, pastor.
Good morning.
Good morning, Pastor. Good morning.
it's an honor to be here, but I'm here for uh, a reason
simply to to say a few words about
What happens at 2 in the morning and what happens at 3 in
the morning when nobody is out there, I'm just here to talk
a little bit about what I experienced.
every night, and every day, and
A little about the tears that I see these mothers.
cry that I I have to use my sometimes hoodie sleeve to dry
the tears of mothers who
who've been out there.
over thousand mothers, who
Who've experienced.
something that no mother should ever experience that no
parent should ever experience that no 1 who goes to sleep
at night and dreams should ever have a dream or a nightmare
about and
and how that can possibly be eased and how that could
possibly maybe not stopped.
but possibly, we have a chance and
with the technology we have with shot spotter with
To not. You want to utilize something like that to not want
to stick with something like that to not want to give some
dying person. Hope.
To not be the last cry for help.
with someone who's laying in the middle of the street, or
in the middle of the alley, as I see,
see, I was there when
5 months old.
When I need a Harris daughter.
was killed the youngest shooting victim and and and I know
the necessity of technology and I know the necessity of
having just a little hope or just a little chance. I I've
been there, I don't know the statistics.
The University of Chicago often gets upset with me because
I talked about that but the fact is I am a statistic.
I'm there, and I know.
and I feel,
And this is not done from a campaign promise.
This is not done from an opinion from somebody who lives on
the other side of town. This is by somebody who stands over
the body.
Somebody who the next morning gets in his car and goes, and
picks up a mom and takes her down to the morgue.
And when they turn that computer screen around, as they
say, ish becomes real
and so, all I'm here to say is that
Some things I believe the term is called a no-brainer.
But we're turning no-brainers into, no heart orders and
maybe no soul herds.
when we say we don't want something that is absolutely
positively necessary from the dispatcher level to the
officer level, to the person who didn't call 911 level
Thank you, Pastor.
The next public speaker is James McCoy.
When do I go now?
okay, I want to say,
For the last couple years.
The United States of America has been flooded with illegal
immigrants.
We've been told that these people are Asylum. Seekers that
these people are here to seek Refuge, but when you actually
go to the police stations, when you go to the shelters and
you ask them directly. Like I have I've actually been to
police stations. I've actually been to the shelters and
I've asked them directly. Are you Asylum? Seekers, they
will tell, you know,
They're not here to seek Asylum. They're here for
opportunity. They're here for money that our government is
neglecting us and giving to them people that they don't
know who they are.
I asked them, is there any type of vetting process for them
to come over here from Texas to Chicago? They told me know
when I said this to Alderman Vasquez, he lied to my face
and he told me that they are being vetted. When I asked
them, they said they're not being vetted. They said no
names have been taken. They just got put on a bus and
shipped over here. That's why there's gangs over here. Now
this is why there's gangs roaming the streets, I asked
them, is there any type of Regulation? Is there any type
of, uh, police oversight or or curfew? They told me, no,
this is why they're able to do whatever they want to do.
Break into stores, vandalize! Break into cars, run people
over with cars that they steal from people children. These
people come from countries that traffic and drugs and
children that our government is subsidizing
While they're telling us that we need to be sympathetic to
them, they're putting them in our community, the black
communities.
We have to take the blunt of all of this of this illegal
immigration.
And we're getting told that we're the bad guys. If we have
any complaint for it for years, the government has said
that they were going to do something to the South side and
the west side and every single time they say well you know
it's not a budget right now, we need more votes. It's a
process. It's this is that yet. Illegal immigrants come
over in millions of dollars out of apparently nowhere gets
to go to them.
Criminal or non-criminal, it doesn't matter. They still get
to go to them.
Adults my age.
These are not old men and old ladies with little babies.
Not most of them know, these are adults my age that our
government neglects the citizens of the veterans sleeping
on the, uh, streets and they're giving to them,
These people are praying on the elderly in our community,
we've seen that time and time again. All of that's been
docu uh documented
They're preying on the children, not just in Chicago and
New York in Colorado.
The government has neglected us and we have the list of
everybody who has approved of it. Everybody who has voted
for it. Everybody who lives to our face. We're tracking
everything in your seats is up. When you're when it's time
for you to go, you're gone. There's no coming back.
uh, please add committee members, uh, Alderman, Talia, Faro
alderwoman, Tabares alderwoman Gutierrez to the Quorum roll
call, and let the attendance record reflect, uh, that were
joined by Alderman, Cardona, Alderman, Beal, and alderwoman
Scott. The next public speaker is Zoe Lee.
um, I know it's about sha spider and like I said, back in
february shot spotter does not need to go anywhere. Um and
just 6 days ago with you guys.
Trying to like hide that whole thing that happened between
61st and 65th on South King, South Water. Um, also let us
know that shots were fired over there and you guys are
trying to say that. Nothing happened over there and it was
fake news, but it's not see. The issue. Is that drug
trafficking is a trillion dollar business for the US
government because, you know, you guys have arrested all of
our drug dealers. So it's so now that you have the
Venezuelans over here and because Rosana Rodriguez, Sanchez
and Carlos Rosa Ramirez. Had cornered, uh, Lori Lightfoot
in a corner and made her sign. This executive order that
the police cannot work with ice to. Deport these people
that
When the drug there, this is a lot of drug trafficking over
there. But the issue is our kids, our young black boys are
involved in that because they hungry. It ain't no money out
here. So,
When they get arrested, our boys are going to take the fall
for it. Not the Venezuelans because it's an executive
order.
So they'll get arrested but then they'll get back out and
they'll keep, can, can you out? Then there's a whole bunch
of fentanyl over here, you know? So they're just killing
people. So our kids are going to get those, those murder
charges. Not the Venezuelans because you can't, you don't
even know who they are.
And but it's guess where it's it's on 61st and 60 and 6,500
South King. So y'all don't care. You know, you don't care
Brian Hopkins that that it's not in your award. You know,
you sitting here and say that we have to be quiet and
maintained and all that stuff when you had a whole shelter.
A whole shelter that you let because you probably got
money. They put in your in in, in, in the streeterville,
you know, 6600 North Lake Shore. That's what, that's what
my family stay at. We had to see that all the time. My
mother had to see that all the time and you said that you
were going to get that shelter out, but you did not but you
did not, you know, so don't sit here and talk about how we
have to be quiet and you got you guys know how to
manipulate the First Amendment and all that stuff. When you
let that shelter, be right there on Ohio. Why all these
people were dealing with that? You had prostitution had all
that stuff in your ward in your ward.
Yeah, that all quiet too. I don't know what y'all think this
is but like my man said y'all getting out this, a new
new generation ain't nobody playing with y'all. The
Democratic party is done because all you guys have done was
played us for forever. You played our grandparents, you
played our aunts,
I'm 38 years old, ain't nobody playing with y'all? No more.
Y'all not gonna do this no more, and that's just what it
is. I, y'all y'all are terrible. Y'all are terrible. The
black representation that we have in the Illinois. Do not
do anything for us. It's a, it's sad. It's embarrassing.
And the and the whites don't either.
Uh, the next speaker is Jessica Jackson.
It's amazing to hear you read off rules.
That's amazing.
I want to know.
How many rules?
Were broken.
To stack people that are illegal.
In warehouses schools, Parkfield houses.
Police stations. Where were the rules for that? How many
rules were broken in order for the city to end up with a
billion dollar deficit?
In order to take care of a bunch of illegals.
How many rules?
were are broken when we're in here, public speaking and
they sitting there chatting
They're sitting there checking chatting. But want nobody
tell them to be quiet. How many rules?
But y'all want all the attention when you talk?
You want to make sure we don't say things that are
offensive.
While we sit here and listen to you all do offensive stuff
all day.
Putting bogus statistics up on their black, this black that
black, this black, that that's not offensive.
When you don't put no white stats up there.
White people don't break no laws white people, don't
commit, no crime.
I want to see some mass shooting statistics up there.
I want to see some opioid overdoses up there.
I want to see some rape charges since 1619 up there.
I want to see separation of families. How many families
black families got separated up there.
How many white gangs like Al Capone and them that actually
started gangs in Chicago? I want to see them stats up
there.
So I dare you tell us that when we talk about what's going
on in our community and our lives
with our families that if it make you uncomfortable,
that is racist. It's X know. It's us talking about us to
the people who's doing it to us.
And we got every right to do so, and if we don't have that
right, then we going to need you to stop texting our
property taxes.
We going to need you to stop taxing us about anything. If
we can't say nothing about the treatment that we getting
over here.
Then stop taking our money.
You don't get to correct us, correct yourself. And then it
will correct everything but as long as you all think that
you can keep on doing wrong
And applying rules to 1 set of people, this is going to keep
on coming.
It's going to keep coming. Yeah, look at the clock.
The next speaker is George Blakemore.
Do you know George Blakemore Mr. Hopkins, you recycle from
the county used to be the chief of staff for John David.
You know, when I put that to discrimination too on you
several years ago
where you try to sit me up and say Christina, I hear
somebody I know you
And now you open Street revill.
And like you like the young lady spoke before it's
terrible. The white folks are just been terrorized by these
illegal immigrants. They are on Ohio and and Ontario and
that big hotel and you have a dastard to go and tell the
the charges of armed. If Mr. Blakemore, use any kind of
language to stand up, we gonna I'm gonna tell the sergeant
arm to put me out. Who, who do you think you are? Or who do
you think I am?
Don't go there.
I know you I have a history you just another recycle from
the can
and you was the chief of staff for John day and you didn't
do nothing there and you're not doing nothing here. You
voted for those illegal immigrants.
Over a billion dollars and some of our black elected
officials, also voted for that. That's not in the interest
of of black people. Well, well somebody you said, you were
gonna close up that hotel but they still there. You know
why? Because you getting paid
You're getting paid. This is paid to play down. Here is
about the money.
It's paid to play down here and you have that gas to say if
Mr. Blakemore say anything disruptive. We I'mma tell the
talking about tell me, tell your mama.
You heard me and dragged me out.
Tell your mama that was a crime against humanity. When
black people was enslaved over here.
You didn't give us any money and we're not advocating for
reparation, what you should do. A billion dollars was spent
on the illegal. And the sad thing about it that had
In high places also for Sanctuary when your black, a needs
it yourself. Now you give them away free home.
Them.
And it's time to turn this city red.
What's wrong with you black people? I gotta run over here.
Janette got a a game being played over there and then over
here you have these meetings at the same time on the same
day.
You know what? You can kiss. You go, imagination, but I
will give a little something more to show than imagination.
Man sergeant-at-arms sergeant-at-arms. Please remove this
individual for violating the Quorum and conducting himself
in an offensive manner. He is not welcome at this meeting
and he is not allowed back in for the duration of the day.
Thank you. Our next speaker is Tuan Sims. Please remove the
individual. Who conducted himself in an offensive Manner
and violated. Decorum, he is not welcome in this room.
Sergeant-at-arms, please, uh, enforce the rules do. So as
see in your discretion, if you need CPD, please uh, ucpd if
not just remove him, he's not welcome in this meeting.
The next speaker is Tuan Sims.
While we're removing the offensive individual to Juan Sims.
You are welcome to your 3 minutes.
Mr. Blakemore you're not welcome here. The sergeant-at-arms
and CPD will escort you out of the room.
Is Tuan Sims present.
Tuan Sims. Your 3 minutes are commencing sir.
Uh, the 3-minute clock is running for Mr. Sims public
testimony. Uh, you're welcome to participate in public
testimony.
Y'all gotta restore my time next week.
All right, you can pause the 3-minute clock. While we
remove the, uh, person who violated the store the time and,
and mother suck. I could have waited the whole time. Don't
worry, we gonna get to him.
Ridiculous. Um,
Rest of. Can I get the 3 minutes? At least. You can. Thank
you.
Ridiculous.
That damn man alone. How about that?
All been Lopez, you have a point of order.
Mr. President, can we take recess until the situation
resolves itself?
Um, all right, we'll do a 5 minute recess, thank you.
Out.
How about that?
Need to schedule.
Okay, yeah, ladies and gentlemen. Uh, we will take a
10-minute recess. And in the meantime, uh, I've been
requested to clear the entire room for the duration. So we
will clear the room for 10 minutes and we will convene, uh,
within 10 minutes. So please don't go far, uh, but clear,
the room for the next 10 minutes. Thank you.
He never.
All right.
Okay, ladies and gentlemen, we will uh, reconvene the
meeting, uh, the media's filing back in right now.
So, as they uh, as they do that, we do have 2 items on the
agenda.
And we will dispense with the additional item. Right now
before we get to shot spotter, we have the annual report
from the office of the Inspector General, uh, on Public
Safety. There's been a request to allow that item to be
heard in a joint committee. Uh, so we will hold that item
in committee and, until such time as Alderman Talya, Ferro,
uh, can schedule a police and fire Committee in conjunction
with the public safety. Uh, meeting that that will be
helped.
Oh yeah.
Alright, thank you.
Yes.
Okay.
We do have 1 remaining public speaker.
Taiwan Sims. Uh, we have reset the 3 minute clock when Mr.
Sims returns, uh he will be afforded his 3 minutes of
public testimony.
Uh, Mr. Sims the clock has been reset.
Yeah, it becomes great. But
okay.
Yeah. Yeah. Get him. Get him to fill out. Okay.
Tywan Sims. The clock has been reset to 3 minutes. Please
proceed.
trying to get to your
How much is, how much of a budget is put into public
safety?
and how much of that is put into Austin Englewood,
The black communities. These marginalized communities.
These unsafe communities.
I realized that this running game has been for a while. Um
so Kenneth Sandy was murdered on Rogers Park under the L,
Kamari Robinson, shot him dead.
And yet it says the prosecution.
Denied or rejected murder charges.
Hazel Sims, that's my mother. She was I was dragged out of
her home on January 14th charged with a domestic was not
given due process. My mother was
paralyzed in the arms couldn't move.
But nothing that's nothing because hey, what's Public
Safety?
But let's talk about the countless murders that have taken
place here in 2024.
From the 1119 people that were killed in July to what? Just
this weekend. What 1012 more people murdered.
And it continues on and on and on and on.
But black Americans shouldn't be talking about this why
y'all talking about this y'all killing each other? But it's
not true because y'all brought in a whole group of
individuals that we know nothing about
So, we finding that in the new, in the new headlines, we
find young black children missing.
Murder at the murder of women though, like black men,
shoot, women, or shoot kids.
Like we even take kids.
But nobody is checking down on that. So our Public Safety
is eroded and continuously but it's happening in our
community because this way y'all sent these individuals,
Y'all said, let the let them black Americans sustain. It
And they communities. Y'all didn't bring them out. The
y'all didn't bring them out. The Rogers Park.
Y'all didn't bring them out to what, what's that new little
um Andersonville. And all those little new areas, y'all
building up.
Y'all send them out there with us. So now we see the spike
in violence, more people coming up missing but you want you
not, you could care less about this all chair person.
Because the community could take a seat.
The America Hopkins, the American people could take a seat.
We can all not be concerned because if you
Focused on everything. But the the issue then what what do
we get out of it?
Out of your leadership. What do we get out of being?
We don't get it.
But we do get the hits, though. We take the hits over here.
Our children come up. Missing.
Young black bodies. Get found in the street.
We take the hit, so as you try to divert your eyes in this
amazing. What's the issue? You not the 1? It.
We the ones taking the hits.
Look, y'all. I know that little lint on your arm, I know
that n*****
them n*****, you dirty, black bastard, but hey,
We suffering over here this nation.
I'm just saying Public Safety. When you look at when you
keep following the headlines,
we have 1 additional public speaker, who signed up? Uh, Jim
balser
Morning council members. My name is Jim balser um, in an
effort to generate some thought and be helpful. First uh,
would you do every day? Uh,
We have to endure all this uh, emotional vomit. Um, but as
to shot spotter, uh, I haven't really heard that discussed
I presume. This is a meeting about shot spotter.
First. Um,
Mayor Johnson's, apparently dead reckoning. Is that
technology kills?
Um, I concur as it relates to uh shot spotter.
Um, this city.
The word Toledo is not a scale.
as a result of the use of shots Potter,
the 13 year old was killed.
Okay, this isn't a trial, sir.
Okay.
Um,
13 year old.
um, so as it relates to, uh,
The uh, the technology.
um, I'm following and probably I'm the only person
following
the trial, uh, the pre-trial motion zip, the Daley Center,
and the Toledo matter,
What I read today pursuant to a foyer propounded on the
City by WTTW, the city of spent 11 million dollars.
Defending.
What has occurred as a result of shotspotter?
1 thing, I noticed uh after numerous attempts to get
information on shot, spotter the agreement with the city of
Chicago.
Um,
And that agreement, it provides that the vendor.
Shall reimburse the city for any?
I'll call it murder. Def kills that occur, as a result of
using their Technologies, right? In the contract city has
that for flock
They have it for the red light cameras, they have it for
speeding cameras. We now have in addition to those
Technologies, we also have uh, zero eyes
Which is, uh, AI.
Based and it.
Hello.
I'm sorry. Don't let me interrupt.
I love the shoes.
Um and then I've got I've got to finish by saying 1 thing
about uh shot spotter. I did follow the godinez federal
case
Shot spotter has gone on the record. Greg delmare in
various others. That
It doesn't record voices. Well, it does. I sat in on the
goddess trial. Larry Heyman was defense Council and I could
hear the voices.
On the Snippets from The Sound tracker devices. So I think
you all should be aware that that technology and and they
say they have thousands of them does record voices and it
doesn't pertain well for our uh, civil rights. Thank you.
Uh, thank you Mr. Bowser
Uh, we do have, uh, former superintendent Eddie Johnson
with us today before, uh, we get to his remarks. We have a
couple of slides that we will present. I'm sorry. Um,
Alderman, Curtis, you will be added to the attendance roll.
Call also uh,
Alderman, OSHA I believe was added to the attendance roll
call. Uh
Alderman. Curtis did, did you have comments or did you just
want to get on the
thank you. Okay, thank you and Alderman's pisado. Thank you
for joining us. Please add Alderman's uh Spa to the Quorum
roll call.
uh, the first slide that we have is the most current data,
uh, for the reporting period ended August 31st, for the
first 8 months of the year. Um, as you know, 1 of the
discussion points about the shot spotter system before the
current extension that we're operating under, uh,
highlighted the fact that there was some questions about
the collection and tabulation uh, and and cross-referencing
cross-referencing of the data. Um, so that problem has
since been corrected, uh, shot spotter has worked in close
cooperation with the Chicago, Police Department, and with
the office of emergency management for the past 8 months to
change the way, the data is gathered, uh, analyzed and
reported. We now have a publicly accessible dashboard. Uh,
that is available online for any interested party, uh, to
see the
The most current data. This is a snapshot of some of that uh
uh, dashboard data that's available. Um, you'll see for the
current year 2000, uh, 24, we had nearly 30,000 incidents
of shot, spotter alerts, where gunfire was detected, um,
could be 1 shot could be hundreds of shots. Uh, an incident
is described as an alert, when 1 of the devices, detects
the gunfire and sends it to their analytical Center, uh,
for a review by uh, human being, uh, who puts a set of eyes
it before. 9111 is notified out of those nearly 30,000
shots, spot or alerts. Uh, 73% had no corresponding 911
call, um, that's the metadata of the entire universe of
shot, spotter alerts. And that figure is within the range
of the national uh, experience of shot Spotter and the
other jurisdictions that it's in uh, anywhere from 60 to
75%.
Of the shot spotter alerts Nationwide. Do not have a
corresponding 911 call um that can be matched to them.
Uh, 8 has been rendered to victims in a number of these
cases. Uh, so far again, in the year 2443 victims, uh, were
within that Universe of 30,000 shot. Spotter incidents. Uh,
Aid was rendered to them. Uh, 7 of, those individuals did
not have a 911 call that was corresponding to the incident
where they were shot. So if it wasn't for shot spotter, uh,
their, their fate, uh, really is in question, whether they
would have gotten any Aid rendered at all. Whether a first
responder would have even been notified about it. Uh, in
those instances, there were no 9111 calls.
Uh, as far as the shell casings again, as I mentioned, the
shot spotter alert can be anywhere from a single gunshot up
until a fully automatic weapon, firing dozens of rounds at
a time. Uh, so we're looking at about 30,000 shell casings,
5,000 of those, uh, shell casings led to specific open
investigations, where police evidence technicians were able
to gather the shell casings and uh, conduct an
investigation of the shooting.
Uh, shot spotter results in Firearms, being recovered. Uh,
470. Weapons were recovered from those incidents in 2024.
Uh, 88 of those weapons again. No corresponding 911. Call
was made.
Shot spotter. Uh, resulted in 451 arrests, 91 of those
arrests result, were, uh, calls that to that, that 91 of
those arrested, not have a matching call to 911.
uh, the next data point from the dashboard, I think, is a
significant uh, the shot spotter system results in an
average uh, response time from First Responders when
compared to 911 of 2 and a half minutes faster. So for a
gunshot victim, they can expect on average, uh, First
Responders will arrive to render Aid 2 and a half minutes
faster due to a shot spotter alert than a 9111 call alert.
Shot spotter has an accuracy rating in the current data
reporting. Period of 99%, that is not shot, spotters data,
that is Chicago Police and oemc, providing that analysis
99% of the time. A shot spotter alert turns out to actually
be gunfire related. Um, people talk about uh fireworks and
and and backfires of vehicles, uh, fuel injected Vehicles
rarely backfire. It almost never happens. I can't remember
the last time. I heard a car backfire, and if you think
back, you probably can't remember. Hearing a car backfire
either. So, the sound of a report, uh, in the city of
Chicago, is reasonably inferred to be gunfire. Um,
Unless proven otherwise, and in this case, again, this is
CPD and oemc data shot. Spotter has a 99% accuracy rate, it
will go to the next slide.
Uh, this again shows, uh, the effectiveness of shot
spotter, uh, when victims are actually struck by gunfire,
you know, in the, in the rare instances where a person is
potentially bleeding out, because they've been shot, uh,
shot spotter can actually save lives, uh, and
unfortunately, that remains the, the rare outliers. Um, but
for any instance, when gunfire is reported, there's a
corresponding higher rate of 911 calls associated, with
someone being struck by gunfire and yet still that 2.5
minute difference. Um, is significant and for the
individuals, uh, in question. Uh, I'm sure they would agree
that the use of shot spotter was a valuable tool um, and
potentially rendering life-saving Aid to them.
So with that, we will, uh, we will call on former
superintendent, Eddie Johnson, um, who has a discussion
about the data that you've just seen and then we'll go to
questions.
Yes, absolutely. This will be shared with you.
Uh superintendent, the floor is yours. Thank you. Good
morning Alderman and thank you all in the body for uh
giving me the opportunity to speak this morning.
4,273 shootings.
That's how many shootings we have reported in 2060 2016.
The year I became superintendent of the Chicago Police
Department,
At that time, mayor, Rahm Emanuel and I were really
concerned and focused on how to reduce The Gunshot in our
city.
I believe in technology. So we looked at what was happening
and how we could reduce gun violence in the city. And
looking at the data, we discovered that a lot of shots
fired calls were never called into 911.
So we were intrigued by a new and emerging gunshot
detection technology called shot spotter.
which which we ultimately deployed in 2 of the toughest
neighborhoods in the city in 2017, Englewood on the south
side
And Harrison on the West Side, they were 2 of the worst
areas. Played by gun violence at that time. So we activated
gunshot detection systems in those 2 districts first, and
with a limited deployment in 2017. Shot spotter identified
4,694 shootings, not the number of rounds, but the number
of incidents, let me say that again, 4,694 shootings.
so, on a 2018,
There were 15, 110 alerts 2019. There were 19035 alerts and
shot spot was only deployed to have of our city during that
time.
What the police have learned from shot spotter.
Is that you're able to respond to gunshot victims, more
more quickly.
From January to August of this year. There have been
2882929 shot spot alert. That's way too many. We, we have
to stop thinking this is normal. There's nothing normal
about having to live in neighborhoods like that.
143 gunshot victims were rendered. A strictly due to shot
spotter?
If shot spotter only helped 1 of those victims. I think
that's enough to keep Shots by the around.
when shot spotter turns off on september 22nd, I can tell
you what could potentially happen, the homicide numbers
will probably go up
because those victims that we responded to quickly before
we won't be able to get to. So it's going to skew the data.
when you don't utilize technology like that, we're going to
mistakenly think the number of gun shoot shootings are
going down in the city because we already know that 70% of
them, go unreported.
So we're going to think mistakenly that that's going down,
but it's not.
With shot spotter, the officers out there.
Arrived to these scenes more than 2 and a half minutes then
be. But then if they were called by 911 and that could be a
matter of life and death. Most cops don't witness the
crimes. That that happens. Very rarely. So most of the
time, we have to rely on citizens to let us know when
gunshots are being fired.
And we don't have citizens informing us right now because
the vast majority of gunfire goes unreported to 911, like I
said, at least 70%.
I've been saying this since I was superintendent and I
continue to say this,
you cannot put a price on Public Safety. You just can't the
truth of the matter is the people on the west side and the
South Side they don't just deserve to to feel safer but
they deserve to be just as safe as the people on the North
side and downtown and that's just the fact of it.
Now I can, I hope I really do. I hope we get to a point in
the city where we don't need 13 14000, cops,
And I hope we get to a point in the city where we don't
need technology like shot spotter. But the simple fact of
it is in the reality of where we are in today in 2024
We do need it. We definitely need shot Spotter, and it's
disingenuous for us to think anything. Other than that, you
cannot put a price on people feeling and being safe in our
city and that goes for everyone. Thank you.
Thank you, superintendent.
our questions from committee members, um, on either the
data
or superintendent, uh,
I'm sorry.
Uh know, he'll respond to any specific questions, but he
doesn't have testimony.
Alderman Lopez.
Thank you. Chairman, is anyone here from shot spotter?
There is a representative from, uh, sound thinking here.
and that is,
You identify yourself. Vice president, corporate
development person sound thinking.
Thank you. Is there any comments you'd like to make sir?
On behalf of sound thinking, I would like to tell you how
thrilled we are.
To see the level of transparency.
The data that is now being shared with the public.
Uh, under superintendent snelling's leadership.
and based upon the interest expressed by this body,
there's a lot of good information now becoming available.
And it is our hope that information is going to allow all
parties to make a very informed educated decision.
Regarding the use of this technology moving forward.
Do you dispute any of the information that is shared on
these screens sir?
Looking at the information on the screen today is a
summary.
Of the information that's currently posted on a dashboard.
That Chicago Police Department is now making available to
the public.
Um,
the only area that
we would not dispute, but would question would like to
explore.
Is, uh, the, the statistics related to rendering Aid to
gunshot victims.
um, we looking at that data, looking at the the the
percentages of those incidents that
Involve calls to 911 or do not call involved calls to 911.
uh,
seem overstated.
Uh, based upon our experience with other municipalities
around the country.
And that's an area. We would definitely like to explore with
CPD to better understand how
Data is being.
Correlated with respect to 911 calls.
Do you mean that the number would be higher?
In terms of the amount of Aid victims that were aided
without a 911 call.
We believe, and we feel that some of the data in the
subsequent report validates that there's a much longer
list.
Of victims that are receiving aid as a result of a shot
spot or alert.
We also believe that the the number of calls
Are alerts involving.
Victims.
Where nobody calls 911 is much higher.
Do you consider yourself a subject matter expert on this?
I don't know that I would say a subject matter expert but
we work with a lot of agencies around the country and
analyze a lot of data and help those agencies, make the
best operational decisions they can based upon the data.
They're let, let me rephrase it. Are you do you consider
yourself a subject matter expert on the technology that
we're using?
Yes, sir. Are you a subject matter expert on the impact of
the technology we're using?
Yes, sir.
Former superintendent. Are you a subject matter expert on
policing?
I think after 31 years, I think it'd be safe to say that.
Yeah I'm just checking but the reason I asked and it seems
ridiculous that I even have to ask that chairman, is that
often times, much of what we do is rely on subject matter
experts
to provide city council and indeed. Uh, the administration
whomever that Administration may be with the necessary
information on how we can address. Any particular issue
that comes before us, whether it's Public Safety, whether
it's business, related zoning, You Name It, We are
constantly.
Having chairman such as yourself, bring in experts and we
have 2 experts here with us today.
And we are also looking down.
The barrel. No point every pun intended, that in 13 days.
This technology this tool, which both our, our former
superintendent and our current superintendent say is a must
for
Bringing.
Public Safety to our communities.
Uh, as going dark.
We often like to talk about violence. Prevention in this
room.
And I think as we've heard from some speakers and I know
from some discussion and even as we're looking at the
resolution which talks about all the the technology.
Uh, available to our city.
With regards to Public Safety.
This is a tool of detection. This is a tool of response.
This is a tool that brings resources at 3:00 a.m. when some
13y old is shooting indiscriminately into a major
thoroughfare.
This is not about prevention. This is about detection.
and this technology, like so many of our other Technologies
listed that we that we discuss, whether it's noise,
technology, license, plate readers and the and the like,
Are all reactionary to once the crime has been committed.
They allow us to.
Catch and help and render Aid.
When No 1 calls or when No 1 know what just happened.
and it's really concerning to me, and I think to many that
I represent and many that many of you represent,
That we are actively looking for a way to end this tool
just to fit a political promise.
We all make promises and we all have to learn that
sometimes the Situation's different. Once you take office,
And I think it behooves this Administration and those in
this room who make similar promises to understand that this
technology like all technology.
Is just responsible for 1 Simple Thing. Reacting to what
happens in front of it.
I think, Mr. Chairman, it's very dangerous that we are
sitting here 13 days from now.
Taking away 1 of the most effective tools that help saves
lives.
I don't know if those 7 victims at minimum survived their
encounter with the gun.
What I do know is that I don't want to be the aldermen that
looks at a family and tells them that we were not willing
to pay for the contract, or for the technology simply.
Because we felt it was our duty not to put people in Harm's
Way of being caught when they start shooting in
neighborhoods.
I have somebody who works in my office, whose cousin was
killed.
An award by an alderman who supports ending this
technology.
He didn't die from his gunshot wound. He died because nobody
called 911 for the hour that he was on the curb.
That's what killed him.
if there would have been that technology in the
neighborhood,
We'd be at number 8, victims.
Rendered Aid and surviving.
We must.
Clearly.
Do everything we can to bring constitutional policing
without a question.
But at the same time, there are tools that we need in our
neighborhoods. There are tools that work
That are colorblind.
To the perpetrator that only respond to the actual action
that's been taken by an individual.
This is 1 of those Technologies.
And to think that we're going to see millions of dollars
invested in this technology become mute in 13 days.
Is important to me.
My ward. My district 7 district, has the superintendent.
Remember, was 1 of the first to get this technology.
And I will be damned if I'm the 1 of the first to see it,
go as well.
So I think these resolutions are great. But this body under
the leadership of our colleague from the 17th, Ward passed
an order to this Administration.
Saying that.
If we want this technology, we will, we should be allowed
to keep it in our communities, in our districts.
And like the 100d that we issue at any given point this
year, that order is binding and I think it would behoove
the administration to remember that fact.
we want this in our neighborhoods and I think that if we
allow ourselves to go down this road of removing this
technology, which Technologies next are we going to take
out license plate readers? Next, are we going to take out
the cameras next?
At what point are we just going to throw our hands up and
turn it over to the criminals and say you know what the
city's yours.
Because we don't want to catch you out of fear.
Of having to hold you accountable.
Thank you, chairman for having this hearing, but I think we
have to stand firm as a body and as a city council and say,
this is a priority for us and hold it in our city and in
our communities, and expand it. So that every life can be
saved throughout the city of Chicago from gunshots without
being called in, thank you.
Yeah, thank you, uh, Alderman Lopez, uh, just a reminder
that, uh,
This meeting is held, uh, under the ospac of resolution R
2815 calling for a subject matter, hearing on policing
technology. There's no action taken today. Uh, that is not
to suggest that action isn't indicated or required. And at
a future uh, city council preceding. It is, we're just not
authorized to take any votes on this today. Uh alderwoman
tabaris, followed by Alderman bill.
Thank you. Chairman, I want to thank you for holding this
hearing on this important technology in the city of
Chicago. I represent the 23rd Ward and the Police District.
Number 8, the eighth Police District, overlaps, the 23rd,
Ward, and I have here,
Here.
Signatures.
Collected from residents.
In the Police District Number 8, supporting shot spotter
1500 over 1,500, signatures were collected.
From residents who want to keep shots spotter.
In Chicago.
And I want to commend, I want to commend the ccpsa council
members, Jason Huff, Al catch, a Tolo, mark hamberlin.
They are the council members of the eighth Police District
for doing what all city leaders should do.
And that's listen to the constituents.
They came.
To this issue, not with an ideology. But with an open mind
and a mission to be responsive to the public
They studied the issue, they held meetings and they put the
question to the communities.
These residents that signed this petition that put their
name has been collected since met up to date.
They all attended caps meetings neighborhood, watch
meetings and other meetings and town halls that I held in
my ward and they all have spoken loud and clear that they
want to keep shots spotter.
The number of names of residents from the eighth District
who want to keep shots, spotter speaks loud and clear.
And they speak loud and clear against the noise and
distractions pushed by the money Grabbers. Who want to
scrap this tool?
So, I want to just give a comment.
That we should all take a lesson from their approach.
In decision making and listen to the residents, especially
the fifth floor.
So again, I just want to thank the 8 District police
council members. Jason Huff. I'll catch you to Mark Hamlin,
for collecting these signatures, and working hard. Just
want to give that comment. Thank you. Thank you, man. Uh,
please add alderwoman Lee and Alderman Quinn to the
attendance list.
Alderman Beal, followed by Alderman Chico.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman
um,
Well I have questions but I also have um a statement that I
think is very important that people understand.
um,
we're spending hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars
on migrants.
Okay, people who are just coming here.
But we can't spend 8 million dollars on technology that
saves lives to the people who pay taxes and live and play
in this city every single day.
Why are we fighting for Public Safety? When we just roll
the red carpet out for people just coming here and taking
advantage of the taxpayers and the hard.
Uh, working people of this city every single day.
Something is fundamentally wrong with that picture.
Fundamentally wrong that we can spend hundreds of millions,
but we're sitting here fighting to try to keep some
technology in place that helps this city, save lives.
And I'm sorry, I'm sick of the argument. That, you know,
shot spotter, doesn't uh, you know, prevent crime, it's not
built to prevent crime.
Is pro is is proven that when there's a gunshot it can tell
us within 10 feet where that gunshot came from. If you hear
gunshots at 2 in the morning, like the Pastor said, you
wake up and say you call 911 or I just heard gunshots.
Well, where, what direction?
Do you know where it came from? No, I don't. But you know
what? Shots fired I can tell the right there where that
shot came from within seconds,
That's technology. That's what we need here. We always talk
about, you know, we want to fight crime but now you want to
take away the number 1 tool. That our superintendent says
that he needs
the superintendent that's handpicked by the mayor and
confirmed by this body says he needs and wants shot Spotter
and we want to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
Something's wrong with that picture.
Something's wrong that we want to get rid of shot spotter.
When the same person that says, he's going to turn it off
on the 22nd has a detail of 116 officers protecting him
every single day.
That's 116 officers to protect 1 individual.
Is a entire shift in a district.
An entire shift in a district.
Mayor, Daly only had 16 officers protecting him.
And we're over a hundred.
What the hell is going on in this city?
Now, let me get to my question.
What CPD invited to testify before this committee? Mr.
Chairman, uh, they were informed of this hearing today,
okay, so they were informed, so they had the right to show
up or not. Absolutely. I, I didn't specifically request
their presence. I left it to their discretion, uh, said,
you know, we're having this hearing shots about our data
will be presented. Um, but I don't believe anyone's here,
okay? So in my
um,
Opinion. They decided not to show up. Well, in In fairness.
it was short. Notice. We called them the day. The agenda
was published so well, maybe they didn't want to give the
benefit of the doubt. Maybe they needed a shot spot. I'd
love to tell them to come here.
Um,
let me just say,
The data that is being shared to us today.
Came from a foyer request. Is that correct?
Scary.
This is the foyer data, what you're looking at, okay?
That's the Foya data. Okay, was the
Information. Given to
This body.
Different from what was?
Given in a Foya know, it's the exact same data. Yes, okay.
Gary, is that your definition or interpretation the same
data was given? Yes, sir. Okay, thank you.
Uh,
when you look at 14 seconds, I'm sorry, 14 minutes that it
takes.
the police to get to a
crime scene.
That's what the data is showing 14.3 seconds. I mean
minutes before a caller to call in before the police
arrived, and then you're looking at 1 1. 9
For shots bottom.
That's a 3 and a half minute Gap.
Of direct.
contact on where that shot came from versus the resident
call and saying, I just heard gunshots
Okay.
We have people in this city.
And God Rest her soul.
The officer that was gunned down on her front.
Lawn.
Coming home from work.
Ariana Preston.
Was coming home.
from a Call of Duty and was
gunned down.
In her front yard.
And if it had not been for shot spotter,
she was still be laying in that front yard.
The officers responded to.
the shots fired alert and
they discovered her laying in the front yard.
Could you imagine if the mother had came out that following
morning?
If nobody had called 911 or shots fired, it wasn't
available the mother. Come outside.
To water her lawn first thing. The next morning.
Or going to work the next morning.
What message does that send?
We need this tool ladies and gentlemen and I don't care
what your politics is.
I don't care what your feelings are.
We need this tool in this city.
And I'm sorry if you don't understand it, sometimes it's
better to vote for something that saves lives, even though
you don't understand it.
The people who are telling you that we need it in our
Wards, we understand it.
And some of our colleagues have voted against retaining
shot spotter. Don't even have it in their wards.
Don't even have it.
So it's just it's this is just, this is upsetting my soul
that we are fighting for shot spotter today.
so,
The 15th District.
Which is the District of.
The mayor of city of Chicago.
Is the worst District in the city of Chicago for gunshots.
But luckily he's in a bubble because he got 116 people
protecting them.
Well, you know what? We don't have that luxury. We don't
have police protecting us like that.
so,
it's just defies logic that we
are fighting for this battle today.
Mr. Chairman I have made a request of the superintendent of
the police that every alderman
That has shot spotter to have access to that technology
through the app on their phone and I have heard crickets.
Why is it that the ottoman who have shot spotter in their
Wars? Don't have access that the same officers have when it
comes to shots fired. It's just a matter of downloading the
app and giving us a password to have access to the
technology, and I put that in writing to the superintendent
of police along with our so-called Public Safety, uh,
director, um, the deputy mayor of Public Safety, and I have
heard nothing but crickets.
From that response.
so,
Question for Gary.
Is there other technology out there available?
Similar to shot Spotter. And if it is,
how long would it take for them to get up to speed?
As far as where you all are today and how much would it
cost?
We are unaware of any other company.
That provides the kind of gunshot detection solution that
has been deployed here in the city of Chicago.
Okay.
So there's no, let me just repeat that. There's no other
technology that they know of available that compares to
Sound thinking shot spotter. Correct.
Correct. Okay.
So the network that you all have put together in the city
of Chicago, how much has it cost and how many years has it
taken?
The system that is in operation today was deployed on a
phase basis.
And that.
Total deployment process was about 2 and a half years 2 and
a half years, okay?
so if if there was somebody else out there,
first of all, they would have to get the contract.
Get the technology, get the hardware.
Get it rolled out.
And it would take at least.
3 years because we don't have anything in place right now
because
You know, it would have to be voted on in this body first.
So that would that's going to take a few months. So we're
talking roughly 3 years before. Anybody could possibly get
up to speed.
Is that correct?
Yes, sir.
All right, so that's 3 years. Ladies and ladies and
gentlemen, think about it 3 years.
Of people.
not having first aid rendered to them in a timely manner,
if there was some kind of shooting incident,
All I can say to my colleagues.
Is wow.
That's all I can say.
And if you all vote,
Not to keep shots B, shame on you. And the people that
deserve this, that understand this, that want this.
Deserve it and we need to keep it. Thank you, Mr. Chairman,
thank you Alderman. Bill Alderman, Chico.
Thank you chair. Um, as the only member of this Council,
Who has used shots fired? I think I feel an obligation to
talk about my personal experience with it.
I was there.
On the police department, before we had it.
And I was there.
When was in place.
the 1 thing I could say about the 10th war is I represent
the biggest geographical war in the city of Chicago, I have
a state park
3 public housing complexes
I have a trailer park.
When shots go off in any of those locations.
I couldn't imagine not having shots bother to respond to
it.
When there was no shots bother.
And shots would go off it. It's a crap. Shoot, I think I
heard it over here or I think I heard it over here. That's
not good enough.
those 7 bodies that
Were saved as a result of shots by. We cannot put a price
tag on. I've been there.
and as far as getting to the scenes quicker,
2 and a half to 3 minutes.
a lot of times it's much more quicker than that, and when
we get out there,
When somebody shot.
It seems like an eternity.
If we respond a minute or 2,
from when the shot happened, it's like 10, 20, 30 minutes
and when we get there and the families around the body, 1
of the first things that come out of their mouth is what
took you guys so long?
If we took away shots, father, I could not look though. And
those police officers. Cannot look those families in the
eye.
And that and tell them why why it took them so long to get
there because we didn't have shots bither in place, that
seems ridiculous.
We are saving lives.
Every single day.
there was no reason to remove shots, but
No reason, whatsoever.
I've gone to.
Plenty of beat meetings in my first year in office.
and at the end of the meeting, I'll bring up shots button,
and I'll bring up
Uh, the removal of it and what my residents feel, and I
haven't had 1 person in all the beat meetings. I've
attended say, let's get rid of it. We don't need it.
like all the woman to Baris said,
The residents are very clear.
They want to keep it.
Because it makes them feel safer and we're able to save
lives.
So thank you. Thank you for letting me speak. Thank you for
bringing this forward. Um, and I once again, fully support
keeping shot.
Yeah, thank you Alderman, Chico.
your, uh,
Your personal experience is an important contribution to
this discussion and we thank you for sharing that Vice
chairman jansy.
Thank you, chairman. Um, fifth board represents the second
and third police districts, which uh, for context goes from
the Dan Ryan to the lake and from roughly 301st Street to
75th Street. It's a pretty active community in our city.
And so I want to reference, uh, statement that was made by
um, uh, the gentleman from sound thinking and talked about
the stats related to the correlation between shot Spotter
and 911 calls from residents is different than what you
have seen in other geographies. Can you kind of elaborate
on that a bit?
The data that is being reviewed.
And available on the city of Chicago dashboard today.
Suggests that?
95% of the incidents involving of a gunshot victim.
Or CPD was able to render Aid.
Uh, included a call to 911.
We?
Do not see those kinds of statistics around the country.
Very often, see statistics. That suggest
70 to 80% of the calls to 911. Excuse me of incidents
involving gun violence.
Have no corresponding call to 911.
so, those
Statistics as currently presented.
Um, in the area that we'd like to explore more with the
Chicago Police Department.
Do you have a sense of why?
The numbers look different, so much significantly different
based on what was uh what's on the city of Chicago
dashboard compared to your experience and other cities.
uh, the only
Educated opinion. I could offer at this point.
Is.
When we work with other agencies, looking at corresponding
calls to 911.
Um, we often look at
distance and time associated with the call.
And in other analysis.
Trying to correlate calls to 911.
Look at scenarios, where if a call is a mile away, a call
is an hour later, then that call is not going to be much
value to that victim in the street.
So typically agencies will apply some sort of criteria
dealing with space and time as they correlate calls to 911.
And that's the an area we'd like to explore with the
Chicago Police Department.
Thanks for that. So, similar to, to the alderman Chico,
I've spent a lot of time with Public Safety and Public
Safety meetings with presidents in the community beet
meetings. Other sort of Public Safety discussions and but
you know I have kind of a diverse War at the part of the
war that has shot. Spotter wants it. The part of the war
that doesn't have shot spotter. Does, I voted in support of
this order passed by, uh, a presented by Alderman Moore.
And again, I I don't understand what we're going to do if
we're not going to protect the people who live here. I mean
we've got violent crime, all across our communities,
particularly gun violence. It's something that we see every
day at 7 First Street.
uh, between July 1st and
I think mid July had some 4 murders.
Um, 1 of those was a pretty high-profile murder on the 4th
of July. And if it wasn't for the shot spotter, picking up
those calls, I don't know what would have happened to the
people who were able to survive those incidents. So I I
look forward to having more conversations about how we can
make sure that a the data tells the true story but also
september 22nd is around the corner here and I'm I don't
know I'm kind of side with all the bill we got to get our
colleagues to make sure we're having the right discussion
and um in support of uh our citizens. Thank you.
Thank you. Vice chair. Uh, Alderman. Cincho Lopez followed
by Alderman's pisado.
thank you, chairman and I appreciate the opportunity for
this subject matter hearing, um,
I would like to point out uh to the panelists. The report
of the Inspector General regarding the effectiveness of the
of the software. Um, just before I go to any specifics. Um,
can you can you uh do you have in general? Any responses to
to the characterization of the Inspector General report as
a software that, uh, is simply an ineffective and does not
provide the safety nets that um, that are needed in our
community?
The Inspector General report.
Really focused on.
Shot spotter alerts, that did not result in.
An indication of gun violence.
What that report did not focus on?
Is the percentage of those incidents that did uncover
evidence of gun violence?
maybe shell casings may be weapons may have resulted in an
arrest and most importantly,
Identified, a gunshot victim.
that report did not focus on that, which is a, a
A percentage of the total.
and it is admittedly a smaller percentage of the total but
in the case of Chicago represents, thousands of gunshot
incidents,
the other thing I would point out is
that report concluded that there was in inadequate data.
to make any recommendation regarding
the cancellation or extension of the shot spotter contract.
And that is why we're thrilled to now, see this kind of
data being made available to the public.
into this body to make a more informed decision, regarding
the value of the
of the technology.
Let let me have a follow-up because the thing is important
to be a specific. Because you, you mentioned about gun
related crime. And I just want to quote here that the IG,
the office on the Spectrum, general report finds that
police responses to shot. Spotter alerts, rarely produce
evidence of gun-related crime, rarely give rise to
investigator or stops and even less frequently lead to the
recovery of gun crime related evidence during an
investigatory. Stop.
Um, furthermore, it says that this this indicates the
Technologies in effect that are fighting gun crime and
inaccurate. Um also I would like to point out, I mean, you
mentioned about inadequate data, you know, the the data
that we have in front of us, goes from January to August of
2024, which is even shorter than the report of the
General that, um, investigated or did a quantitative
analysis of over 50,000 records over a 17th month, period
of time from CPD and the cities, 9111, dispatched Center,
you have any response to that.
My only response would be the the time frame that was being
analyzed was back during the coid pandemic.
And there were many factors involved in, uh, police
response.
And many factors that could skew that data.
But again, the focus of that report was
uh, where evidence was not found in its, uh,
very,
Agencies need to be very careful interpreting that just
because there was not evidence of a gun crime, that no
crime occurred.
Uh, many factors can affect whether or not evidence.
Is uncovered. Most importantly, how long does it take
officers to reach the scene of the crime?
Would you agree then that it is a much more independent
analysis to have the Inspector General, analyzing the data
than the company that actually sells the software to the
constituent Chicago?
I'm sorry. Could you repeat the question? Do you think that
it is a more independent analysis of the data to have an
analysis that comes from the office of the Inspector
General than, from the company that has a Vestor interest
on selling software to the city?
I I I can't speak to uh, the underlying objectives of that
report.
But what I do know is in the final page of that report, it
referenced the fact that more data was needed to make any
educated assessment regarding the value of this program.
I Alderman bill on a point of clarification.
I think um the data that was provided to shot spot. Well
the Inspector General came from the city where we weren't
getting all the data and so now that we're getting all the
data well let me just what did the Inspector General
contact you all for data or did they get it from the
Chicago Police Department?
They did not contact us. It was obtained from my
understanding is most of the data was obtained from oemc.
Okay. And that's the, the data that we're saying we weren't
getting to make a sound decision on to keep shots fired. So
we were getting skewed data from the police department. So
that's the same data, the Inspector General got
And that's why we're here today to get the truth.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. The point, the point is valid. The
the inspector General's report was a previously issued
report. It did not cover the reporting period of the data
before us. This is from January 1st of this year to August
31st of this year. It's collected in a different way
compiled in a different way, presented in a different way.
So your point is valid Alderman. Centio Lopez is a line of
questioning is still relevant because, you know, he he can
certainly bring up the inspector Jeff.
General report, but it is an important distinction that it
did not cover the data before us Alderman, Telly, far. And
then we'll go back to Alderman Central Lopez. Thank you,
Mr. Chairman, um, just as a point of information um, did
the inspector General's report
um include whether or not you know because it's a high
percentage of um data that says that no evidence of gun, A
gun crime had been committed, did she consider which is a
felony in Illinois down those unlawful discharge of a
firearm as 1 of the crimes that could have been included.
Do you know whether she included that? I mean because it it
is a felony, right? Unlawfully discharge a weapon in
Chicago, but if you're saying 80%
Of the U. The detections were there was no crime committed
that she include that crime.
In her calculation, as I recall from the report, it was no
crime reported. They, the Inspector General stopped short
of saying that no crime was committed. Just because we
didn't detect casings or find someone who was an active
shooter. I think we can haul assume that out of the 30,000
gunfire incidents this year that shot spotter documented.
The vast majority of them were almost certainly. A criminal
act shooting a gun on the street is 99.9% of the time, a
criminal act by its very definition. So the Inspector
General stopped short
Of saying that, you know, uh lack of evidence of a crime
means there wasn't any crime um and that was 1 of the
changes that we're seeing in this data. And in the way that
the Chicago police are collecting the data rather than have
the Assumption being. If they show up to a shot spotter
alert and don't see anything. Therefore that means no
crime.
Now, we're saying potentially a crime was committed. Uh, it
just didn't result in any investigatory action and they're
doing a much better job of documenting, the collection of
things like shell, casings or a witness that says, hey, I
was here 10 minutes ago and I heard gunfire, there's
nothing happening here now but a crime was obviously, uh,
alleged at the time. So, that's 1 of the changes. You're
seeing reflected in the data that is different today,
compared to when the Inspector General um, did that rapport
with those conclusions? Thank you Mr. Chair.
Alderman, cial Lopez, uh, returning to the floor, if you
have further points. Yes, thank you. Thank you, chairman.
And I think it's important. I, I will welcome, certainly, I
know that the inspector General will be coming at the next
maybe join hearing. Um, so I think it'll be important to
cross-examine the data. I welcome that just to make sure of
consistency so that we will, uh,
How quick quickly can we turn this off? Possibly this month.
You want to try? We. We will try for uh, in the month of
septembar. We will try to schedule a joint hearing of
aldermen Telly arrows Committee in this committee. We'll do
our best. Thank you, chairman. I just think it's a matter,
say, you know, fairness to make sure that we have a robust
conversation because indeed, and I will agree. That is
important that as elected officials, we, we operate with
data, uh, driven, um, evidence. So 1 of the things that I
also like to get a response is around a pattern, um, that
the inspector general report, uh, finds around the over
policing in, in in, um, black and brown communities. I
think that the, um, potential for detaining and frisking
civilians was also something that the report found, uh, to
be dangerous, humiliating in and accumulating intrusion on
bodily, autonomy and freedom of movement, um, based on on
some of the data, 1 of the things that and I think I like
that, you know, we're mention is
Specific examples, but it comes with a, a report for the,
uh, the Detention of a 65 year, old Michael Williams, uh,
for 11 months in Prudential, um, in pre-trial detention
based on uh, scant evidence produced by shot spotter. Uh,
the case was dismissed 2 months after his defense attorney
subpoena shot spotter. So I think there's important again
that we operate, you know, with the highest level of
Integrity analyzing the thought word, um I would like to
see
Um, what is the response to these, um, potential? Uh, or how
how short spotter is operating throughout the city and
these potential bias towards over policing in certain parts
of the city?
We are not aware of any evidence in the city of Chicago or
elsewhere in the country.
Where shot spotter alerts shot. Spotter information. Is
Creating the kind of behavior reference to that agreement
or excuse me, in that, that study.
It was a very narrow data set analyzed but we are not aware
of any place in the country where that is true.
We do see situations where officers without the use of shot
spotter.
Having vague information regarding the potential location
of gunfire our forced to drive through the neighborhood in
the middle of the night.
wander through the neighborhood looking for,
A location of a gun crime that can lead to perceptions of
over policing.
where with a shot spotter alert, the officer has the precise
location to go directly to the location of the incident
without wandering through the neighborhood.
I think it's a point of clarification Alderman Vasquez.
I just a point of clarification on that point. Um, you said
you weren't aware of a correlation, I guess. My question
is, was there any part of the data where that was
intentionally studied to say, hey, we've seen, maybe these
complaints that were associated with an interaction, the
same way you were tying, the shot spotter, alerts, to all
the other factors, was there any study that would
correlate? Or look at that specifically
We're not aware of any study. Okay, into that area. Just I
just want to clarify because if you're not aware, that's 1
thing, if there was never anything looking at it, I can
understand why you wouldn't be aware. So, thank you and
Alderman. You may want to hold this line of questioning for
the joint hearing when the Inspector General is actually
here. Well you know, we got ethics next door so I'll be
able to bring it over there too as well. Thank you. All
right? Yeah, and my final question. So, then how, um, so
and I do welcome the The Joint hearing and I do think it
will be important to hear directly for the Inspector
General. Um, I I do think that the, um, the politicization
of this issue, um, must be addressed with data and evidence
and I think that's what Inspector General is here for. But
my question then, will you my final question? Is that have
you read the Inspector General report, where there is that
risk, and that concern about the over policing? I
understand that you mentioning about other cities, but here
in Chicago, do did you read?
Need the issue that the inspector General have brought up
and there's just something that that it is of concern that
could be happening with this software.
We certainly reviewed that report in detail.
in any indication that the use of our technology may be
creating
problems for pleasing in the community or of great concern
to us. But again we're not aware of any study. Any analysis
that validates, those suggestions that were made in the
report and that report again was looking at a very narrow
set of data.
Okay, uh, Alderman's pisado followed by Alderman Quinn.
Thank you, chairman. Thanks for having this meeting. First
of all, it's very important to me. And I believe the most
of my colleagues or our colleagues. First of all, Ray sorry
to hear about your loss. I never knew that you want me to
talk a lot more, pretty close friends. So sorry about the
loss of your cousin. Um, but yeah, everything I'm going to
say, has been said already, I just been taking notes, so I
hate to be a redundant, but since I had my hand hand raised
raised, and I wanted to say something, I'm just going to
say it. I'm well aware of the fact that it does not stop
crime. You look at this Railway live in. Now, you look at
all the crimes that happened, I just look at my own
neighborhood and some of the fluent suburbs, right by me.
Anything you do nowadays, you know, it's going to be on
camera, and that is not stopping anybody. It's just not
stopping them. So, at least, if this could help in some
communities that don't call the police, they would be be a
big help to the person that was maybe shot or beat up, or
whatever. Um,
Once again, it's about the Texan, it's not about stopping
frame. I'm well aware of that um
Also, um, it was said that, you know, in my opinion black
and brown communities wanted. So I don't know, I didn't
talk to every black or brown person in the city, but from
the
Relationships. I have with some of my colleagues that are
black or brown. They they certainly say their Community
wants it and we've heard that already so far so I certainly
would support them. It's not in my community but I would
welcome it in my community and I believe my community would
welcome it. I'm sure we'd be the last 1's to get it in the
northwest side but I'm fine with it, you know, putting it
where it's more needed. So I'm okay with that. And also
just 1 last thing I want to say, um, well also we heard we
hear about false reads, false reads, false reads, who
cares? If there's a false read if it's a false read and
they go there, nothing's there, big deal. If it saves 1
life 13, plus years, I've been here, all we ever hear
anybody who's been here with me. Marty, you've been here
with me for 13 years. All we ever hear if it saves 1 life,
if it saves 1 life. So, if it saves 1 life, it was worth it
to me. So, that's just what I want to say. And also, as far
as IG report, I didn't see it, but I could tell everybody
here and I believe you all know that Deborah witsen is very
responsive. I'm sure she would have. Gladly came here to
talk to us. Um, so maybe we can have her here here here, 1
time. I'm just guessing, I don't want to speak for you Deb
because you might be listening in.
But I'm guessing you would think that it's a good tool for
the police to use or for the residents of the city of
Chicago, for a safety measure. So, just with that, that
thanks once again for having this meeting. And let's think
about having, uh, if it appears to be an issue, uh, to
bring the IG to the next meeting or anybody could just call
her on their own. So,
Thank you, chairman. Thank you Alderman, Quinn.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Uh, I apologize in advance if I'm
redundant. I am joining the conversation late. I was at the
education committee. Um,
Question. Um, can you talk a little bit about the
improvements to the software over the over the years?
Sure.
Over the, the period we've been deployed here in Chicago.
uh, there have been a variety of improvements, some dealing
with how we
deal with ambient noise.
Wind noise. Those types of things that get in the way of
what we're trying to do to protect allowed impulsive
sounds.
Um, we have taken steps to enhance the application that's
available to the officer in the field.
We've taken steps to provide as an example, what is called
ILS uh in the incident lead summary, what that allows an
officer to do uh while.
Uh, traveling to the scene of the crime or at the crime, to
not. Just look at a a, a DOT on a map, where an incident
occurred, but actually have on a map each in each gunshot
precisely located on a map.
With the time stamp associated with each Gun Sight gunshot.
Valuable information.
Helping that officer understand how to approach the scene,
what kind of problem they may be stepping into, uh, how to
interview Witnesses and that type of thing.
Um,
We?
have have made a a a number of steps that are focusing on
making sure the technology in our incident review center is
the best technology available to the acoustic Specialists
so that they can do the best job. They can in evaluating
these uh uh gunshots in confirming that they are in fact,
gunfire and not some other noise.
A variety of other, uh, updates. But those are a few that
I think are particularly pertinent to this discussion.
That's helpful. Um,
In what other cities in the US. Do you have shot spotter?
Today we have shot spotter operational in cities like city
of Boston.
New York.
Washington D.C Baltimore.
Miami Milwaukee.
Minneapolis Denver.
Las Vegas, San Francisco Oakland.
I can continue to today. It's about 170, municipalities in
the US.
and um, any conversations about canceling and and those
municipalities
Uh, there have been some discussions in several
municipalities, uh, as different participants weigh in on
the value, the cost.
um, yes, but our retention rate today is about 98 to 99%
and in in your growth rate,
in terms of new municipality signing on,
I believe in 2023, we added, I believe, 1617 new agencies,
What's going to happen in the city of Chicago after
september 22nd what shot spotter?
Assuming that the system is decommissioned on the 22nd.
um,
we will do whatever we can to support the Chicago Police
Department in the demobilization steps.
um, that may be involved there, making sure they have the
data that is that is needed based upon historical gunfire
up to that point
Uh, we will then begin the process of deinstall our
sensors. So we have about 2,000 sensors, a little over
2,000 sensors deployed across the city. So it's going to be
a long process to obtain access to those sensors. Because
in some cases, their own rooftops, light poles. And what
have you and begin to process of deinstall the sensors
around the city?
gun gun gun, fire detection after
The 22nd of september will no longer be.
We, we will still have the ability to detect gunfire for a
period of time, um, but as we remove sensors, then
obviously our ability to detect gunfire will be degraded as
we remove Those sensors.
And how how?
Alderman Curtis. Yeah. And and how much will that uh,
when when, when we take away and, and you start, um,
Uh, taking away the shot, spot us and demobilize, and
everything. How much would that cost be will there? Or will
there be cost to it?
There'll be there will no be, excuse me, there will not be
a charge to the city of Chicago for that the installation
process. Thank you. Thank you, chairman.
Along those lines of cost. What will it cost to keep it
going through the remainder of
Calendar year 2024.
Cost to sound thinking or the cost to the city, it'd be,
it'd be the cost to the city.
Uh,
we we would have to explore that. It would depend on a
variety of factors.
Um,
Thank you, thank you for your, for your testimony. Um, I
just have a couple of of comments. Um,
our superintendent of police Larry Snelling, who did a
fantastic job during the DNC supports this
My commander of the 8th District. Brian spraining.
Who oversees?
The largest by population, Police District in the city of
Chicago. 250,000 residents supports this by community
supports it.
I don't know why we're having this conversation.
This seems like a no-brainer. Uh I support this. My
community supports at our superintendent supports and my
commander supports it.
um,
in the eth district which has the largest population. We're
number 1 for calls for service. We can ill afford
To be losing technology. We have to add more technology.
And in short order, we're going to be having conversations
about cameras, and, and budgets, and all that stuff. Um, we
we, we can ill afford this, um, so I support it. Uh, thank
you, Mr. Chairman for calling this
This meeting and having this conversation. Thank you, thank
you. Uh, Alderman Vasquez. Did you have another Point?
Yeah. Alderman Vasquez followed by Alderman, Scott?
Thank you very much and just for clarity. This is
questioning for me, not point of clarification. Am I
correct?
Meaning. I have questions, but I want to, we're good. Okay.
Just want to double check. Thank you very much. Um, I
really appreciate, uh, the hearing that we're having on
this, uh, as well as uh, a lot of the comments from our
colleagues. I think a number of us when thinking about shot
spotter had concerns about having the best technology, and
not understanding what the process had been when this was
decided, as a technology, what the metrics, the city wanted
to identify, um, as you know, um, being able to measure
success. And so, in asking, questions about the city, we
never really got answers about that. So I think part of
what we want to figure out like everyone else is how you
get to Public Safety and do.
In a way that is information driven and isn't just visceral
in about emotion. And so I think that's, um, a lot of where
my questions uh, will begin from.
so, um, well first, I guess I have a, a point
Um, my colleague, uh, utter Miss vazado, um, with a lot of
respect to to your point. There is a concern about false
reads, right? The question about what the concern is with
false reads is if you have an offer going to a false read,
they could be at another place actually doing something
that leads to more Public Safety that if they're being
routed to places, they don't need to be, they're being
taken off the watch of where they could be. And so I think
that's part of the concern about accuracy. Um, but I do
appreciate a lot of the data we're receiving now because it
was things that we were asking for for a while, so I want
to 1 appreciate that. Uh I have a question about the
response reporting. So, when we talk about response times,
uh, that's not like GPS or anything, uh, that's an officer
self-reporting that they've gotten to a place. Is that
correct and accurate.
Open to whoever wants to answer it.
The information that is presented in cpd's dashboard. Again,
this is Chicago Police Department data.
But it's our understanding.
That the response time is reflective of when the officer
arrives on scene.
Okay yeah. So thank you for that. So I know CPD is not here
here, but that's part of it too. Is understanding some of
the data we're receiving is based on when a person says
they've reached it and based on the scenario, right? They
might be on the ground dealing with an issue and not
actually reporting when they've gotten their exactly and
different officers have different ways of making that call
because we're talking about really tense situations and so
some of the data I think we should be sincere, not sincere,
but we should be clear that it is
It's not exactly data. It's also a human's inputting data
in a way that just needs to be recognized when you're
talking about a 1 or 2 minute difference and that's for
both things, whether it's uh, shot spot or alert related or
not, you're talking about an officer deciding when they're
going to say they got there because um, we've seen concerns
about that before.
um,
I guess when shot spotter was first, um, chosen by the
city.
What was the process there? Was there a request for
proposal. I know that you had answered that, you weren't
aware of other technology. I would imagine as sound
thinking you would not want to be aware of other technology
if it's competitive, but to your knowledge, what was that?
Like when the city first decided on shot spotter,
Very early stages. There was a pilot conducted.
Uh, to evaluate the technology, the efficacy of the
technology.
Uh, under mayor Rahm Emanuel, a decision was made to expand
that deployment.
Uh, focusing on the districts that were dealing with the
highest volume of gun violence.
Um, I'm going to return to superintendent Johnson, who was
very actively involved in the city's decision process at
that time.
yeah, so what we did was, um,
Like Gary mentioned we were looking at different ways to do
it. Um,
We rolled it out. Of course, in the, in the first 2,
district, 7 and 11,
Um, after we saw the stunning results in the first 60 days,
uh, not only did myself and my team, uh, want to expand it.
But when Alderman started to hear about, uh,
The efficacy of it in these for surrounding districts. Um,
then they also wanted in their districts, but since you
asked me that question, let me, let me make something very
clear when we first started looking at shot spotter.
I would tell you the process we went through.
So the first thing we did, of course was looked at calls
for service that came in Via 911, right?
Then we looked at how many offers were officers were on
viewing.
Uh, shots being fired.
But the data when we, when we gathered the data, from our
detective division to really look at where the shots were
being fired and what was actually being reported, it was
off.
So the most compelling piece of evidence that convinced
myself the mayor and my team to pick up shot Spotter and
give it. Give it a try. Uh, I don't know if you remember
uh, Jose Santiago, he was the commissioner of the fire
department at the time. So I went to him and asked him for
a raw data of when the fire department responded to gunshot
victims, just gunshot victims, and he gave it to me. And
that it's what we call the heat map. So, when we compared
his data to our data that we have from oemc, it just didn't
match up and that's how we discovered like 60 to 70% of
gunshots being fired in our neighborhoods weren't being
called in. So you have to remember when people call and I
dial
911. They may just say there's a person bleeding on the
sidewalk. They don't say it's from a gunshot, we wouldn't
discover that until the paramedics actually got there and
checked the victim out. So that information was compelling
and I'm telling you, when we saw the results of that, we
knew we had a problem with reporting of gunshots in the
city. And we knew we had to do something to give the
officers and those victims a chance to survive those, those
shootings. And so that was the compelling piece of
information that made the decision. Thank you very much for
that because I think it's very clear that there is a
disparity when you don't have any technology, right? Like
if if somebody calls a 911 saying, they heard a gunshot and
they're inside of their home, they're not going to be able
to tell you what intersection or where they heard it from.
They're making estimates of what they think and and they
think to your point seeing that there was clearly more
gunshots and it wasn't tying together, I understand the
need for it. I think my question is more, once you
determine that, do you then go? What are all
All the Technologies or do you go? Hey there's 1 let's just
it pilot it now and keep moving forward as opposed to
identifying what technologies were available at the time,
what's available now uh the reason why that's a concern to
me is again, you might not know what the best technology
out there is. What the cost is in comparison to be really
competitive. And so, I do understand the need, obviously,
you want to figure out a way to address it, but I'd like to
know if and I guess due to chair if possible, any
documentation about what the process was when that was
determined that wasn't just hey we need something. We're
going to pick this 1 out of a hat and we're going to do a
pilot. I think that's where I'm concerned and I think
Similarly, I do have real concern about where we are now.
Meaning, uh, you know, the mayor's decided that we weren't
going to continue the shot spotter contract. I don't know
what the process has been to identify what we do next. Like
if we've had any conversations now related to what other
Technologies available. Um it is concerning to anyone and I
say this as someone who doesn't have shot spotter in our
Ward. But we know there are colleagues that are clearly
concerned because of the experience that we still have to
talk about what is next. And so I just don't know what the
city's currently done to discuss and say, is there other
technology available? How are we having a process? I think
when my colleague Alderman Beal asked about how long that
process might even take, that's a real concern that
neighbors. All across the city, who are saying, hey, maybe
shot spotter isn't the best thing. I'm open to hearing what
else is available but not having anything leads.
Till much larger fear and a lack of confidence in
government when it comes to Public Safety. So, um,
I I know you all wouldn't be able to answer but I guess
through the chair question would be any documentation, any
updates from the city at all, as to, what's being done to
identify what's next? Because shot spotter will be going
away. Most likely on the 22nd and all our neighbors are
going to be asking us. What's next?
so yeah, if that could be provided to the chair, um,
that would be, uh,
Really necessary to us. Our neighbors are going to be
asking and if we don't have the answers as to what the plan
is going forward.
All of us look like we're not in our game and I just think
that's just unacceptable. So, uh, that's all I've got. As
far as the Inspector General, um, I think to, what was
mentioned earlier they did say it was inconclusive based on
what the data they saw and wanted more data. So I'm glad
this is part of where we're going. Um,
We need that kind of transparency, whether it comes to the
data or decision-making and I think for a number of us, we
feel like there's still questions that need to be answered.
Uh, thank you very much. Thank you Alderman. Uh, alderwoman
Scott, followed by chairman Terry Farrell. Thank you.
Chairman
So, we're all aware that most of these spot shots are in
disinvested communities, right? And so with the
disinvestment community, mostly our black and brown.
Residents. And so we're faced with a lot of disinvestment.
A lack of disinvestment for number of 60 plus years in some
of these communities.
Lack of housing, lack of jobs.
Lack of community support.
Um,
black on black killing Latino and Latino killings.
Uh,
bunch of domestic. And hey, if we have a perfect week or
day in our community officers are shifted to another
District.
We don't have a bunch of officers in the war in in the in
the districts or in our wards.
So right now, you know, we know that the
Doomsday is the september 22nd? That's what I'll call it.
We're we're basically going to play Russian roulette with
our constituent lives and I have to go on record to say
this is I support shot spotter.
On August 31st of 56 year old woman.
Was in a lot on Ogden and Pulaski.
Shot in the neck.
And how the police were notified was through shot spotter.
She bled out in front of her brother and her friends.
Uh, she was a mother.
She still has her mother and father.
She has grandchildren.
But we would we we didn't get a 911 call, it was through
her. My commander in the 10th District through shot spotter
there's a reward for this woman and we have several like
that and so
it's this hardening, when
Are we looking at this as a cost factor? Or are we you know
because you can't put a price on safety. So are we
concerned because it costs too much or is it? Are we saying
because it doesn't protect our residents?
Because in my ward, it helps.
It's not a prevention tool.
it's a detection tool when those shots are fired and so,
if, if I can have a, a conversation with a resident, and
this is the conversation, we have a casual conversation,
this is what our officers are up against.
Young man, talking to me because we do pop ups on the
block, with my office and the police department. Hey, the
officers were chasing me with the Draco.
I said and a draco is a semi-automatic weapon. Now, this is
the conversation. A young man that's happened with me. The
officers were were chasing me with the Draco. I said, did
you have the Draco or he had it? He said, I had it.
This is what our officers are up against. This is what our
residents are up against. This is what I'm up against
because this is where I live. And so I'm a I am
I've lived in this war for 52 years of my life and my
father has always instilled in me. If you leave the
community, you are part of the problem and not the
solution. So I'm staying because I'm going to be a part of
the solution in my community and I'm going to fight every
day and it's so to me you can't put a cost or a price on
something that helps save lives and for the people who
don't have this in their Wars, you're blessed, you're
blessed that you don't have to deal with a warn Rage of gun
violence of gunshots, 36 to 60 and 1 at 1 time, feel
blessed. Feel blessed that you don't have to worry about,
going to your car, and ducting for bullets. Because someone
has let off a Draco and then God, God pro, uh, God forbid
that they throw it over the fence and the officer doesn't
see it. But the podcast, pick it up and the charge is
thrown out.
God forbid, because that's exactly what happened with this
young man. So, we're, we're up against so many different
demons and monsters in these disinvested communities. And
to me, I'm starting to think that it's intentional who
doesn't want to help the citizens of the of of the ward
that's being played with so much violence.
I have so much to say, I try to write stuff down but I
can't. Um, and so for me, you know, again, I go back to the
DNC and how it was okay to protect those delegates and the
people that were here for the DNC, but who made that
decision? Was it the administration or the federal
government who made the decision to keep it for that time?
Does anybody have an answer who makes the decision? Whether
it stayed for the DNC, was it a federal decision that was
made that we keep it? So the federal government knows that
it it works. Um, is this just a tool that we're trying to
get rid of a cost? Um, but again, you know, I would hate to
sit back and watch after september 22nd, uh, what our
residents would face because the aftermath was going to be
far greater than what we see. We see it. We have it working
and we see that we still have so much violence. Like
someone else just said that, we have the cameras,
If if the young man could have a Draco and and police
officer chasing our police officer know what's out here and
so to have that tool to just help catch a little bit of
something that we can't get. Um, just being out there. I
mean we don't have enough officers. Unfortunately we don't
have enough officers to just sit on the Block because
you're called here. You're called there we just don't have
that type of Manpower and
again, I pray and I, I, I pray for my residents, I pray for
the citizens of, uh, these disinvested communities who are,
uh, ravaged
With all this violence, I mean, it's happening every day at
2, people was just killed on, 87th and Cottage.
21 year old shot in the neck.
I mean, I
the police officer wasn't even there.
At the time.
But they wanted their way, but the, the videos were already
know, 1 called 911. But you saw the video of the people
laying in their cars, dead.
None of them called 911.
No 1. I know that didn't I know they don't call 911 because
they called my office.
I am the police department. They called my office, they're,
they're shooting. Well, did you call the police know? I
called you first.
My ward suit, a man was riding around with the AK-47.
Wanting to sell it a 32 weeks ago.
He didn't call the police. He called his Alderman. I said,
let me call the police. Where are you on the phone? No, 1
ever thinks to call 911. And when you call 911, you do have
to have a long conversation about what they was wearing,
who they were doing. And what before they actually
dispatched, they want to give a clear detail by that time,
people are gone and things are dispersed. So I'm going to
say again someone who lives in this violence and yeah you
can say hey move but this is what I know, these are the
people that I serve. This is what I know this is and this
is where
I live and this is where I've been reared and I can't move
and I and I won't move. Um,
but we can't put a price over the lives of the citizens of
the 24th. Ward first through 50. And so again, if you don't
have this tool and and the violence is not like that in
your neighborhood, God bless you.
Thank you Alderman. Uh, chairman Talia Farrell
I I I really and thank you, chairman. I think my colleague,
all the 1 next Scott for
I'm seeing what we all feel, you know, none of us want shot
spotter in our wards
But we need shot spot.
And, you know, in my ward, I I wish I didn't need it, but I
needed in my ward and our residents needed. And I think
it's
I think it's very clear.
That the majority of the city council members understand
that this is a tool that we need. Uh, perhaps there will be
a time when we won't need shot spotter.
uh, but as of today and tomorrow,
Um and the foreseeable future. We need shot spotter to help
combat.
some of the crime that we're having, and, and it's
unfortunate that this is not in our hands,
um, it's unfortunate that
uh, the representatives of this city.
Um, that have been elected to represent the residents.
um,
won't get.
to to, to vote on whether or not we keep Shots by
And so I I I say that, um, just to say that.
Um, this is the tool.
That folks are putting too much emphasis on and asking it
to do. What is not designed to do.
Um, constitutional policing.
We'll get better with Education and Training.
Um, but shot spot is not designed to guarantee
constitutional policing.
Um, it's designed to detect what it believes to be gunfire.
And to ask it to do anything beyond that.
Um, is wrong.
It's just like often times. You know, we'll say when
someone comes to our office, when when someone say go see
your alderman,
Uh, will tell them, why did they send you to me? That's not
my responsibility. I can't do what you're asking me to do.
And we can't ask shot spotter to do. What is not designed
to do.
Um,
yes, we need to continue to reform our department. We need
to continue that we're presenting. The best police
department possible.
Um, for its residents.
And, and we have to continue to ask our officers to
constitutionally police.
But shots spotters not designed to do that.
It's designed to detect gunfire or would it believes to be
gunfire and that's it.
Uh superintendent. If I could ask a question of you and
thank you so much for your 30, some years of service, and I
am very pleased to have served under your leadership.
Um,
when it comes to policing and I know when you began your
career,
Um, you began your career under a model of traditional
policing on which you helped to usher in um community-based
policing.
um, do you believe that more more modern policing rely more
on technology as we enter to what I consider to be a an era
of Technology based policing along with um community base,
base, more of a hybrid. Uh, what's your, what's your, um,
opinion and thoughts on uh, modern policing as it relates
to technology.
Absolutely, I think uh, listen, I think it would be foolish
of us if we have certain Technologies available to us. I
think it would be foolish and naive not to utilize it. You
know, you look at what happened, a few months ago, um, uh,
with the attempted assassination of the former president,
we have drone technology, right now that can help assist
the Chicago Police Department in doing his job and we don't
utilize it.
If the technology is available to us, then use it, we're
not in the 1960s anymore where we didn't have access to
those things if we don't think as people that are are um
loving this city. If we don't think that the bad guys are
using technology
to get around the law enforcement catching them then we're
out of our minds and
Like ottoman Scott said I would tell you this until I die.
There is no such thing as putting a price on public safety
and because technology costs, what it costs. Then, so be
it, we we we screw around a lot more money than that if you
want to be quite honest about it. So, yeah, Alderman, I do
think that in the modern policing World better training,
because we do need to reform law enforcement all around
this country. I'll be the first to say that we have been
Not the kindest to people of black and brown.
Uh communities. So we have to fix that but along with
fixing that the technology that is out there that can be
helpful, we certainly have an obligation to the people of
this city to utilize it. Thanks s. And um,
With with what the department currently utilized from a
technology perspective. Um, I've heard that 1 of the
complaints um, about shot spotter, is that officers
arrived? Or they're here to gunfire and they're not fully
aware of what's going on.
um, it shot spotter capable of of
Being enhanced with video um and if so what would that cost
look like to um to enhance shot spotter? With instant video
uh whereby if it detects it can also um, begin recording or
an officer can have a visual of what's going on. So before
I turn it over to, uh, Gary, what I would say is this when
we went down that road, what I envisioned with shot spotter
because remember we already had the pi cameras up and then
we started to give officers in the field cell phones. So
they would have instant access to those Technologies. But
what I envisioned at some point was being to being able to
figure out a way to connect, our pod camera system to the
shot spot alerts that at the camera will whip around its
As soon as the gunshot was detected and that way, we would
see those fenders a lot more quickly, but we kind of solved
that issue when we put the sdsc rooms in each of those
affected districts because as soon as those officers in
those rooms hear the alert that they have control of Pi
cameras that are closed, they'll swing it around to take a
look. But I'll let Gary.
Thank you, superintendent.
We have more and more agencies.
That are combining these Technologies looking for that 2
plus 2 equals 5 scenario.
We have an application programming interface available to
the city of Chicago that will allow us to pass the GPS
coordinates and a timestamp of every alert to a video
management system.
That video management system would allow Chicago Police
Department to capitalize on camera technology, LPR
technology. So that if a gun shot incident is detected,
Cameras in that immediate area can be activated pan tilt
Zoom. If there's no cameras in the immediate area of the
crime then cameras that may or license plate readers, that
may be able to detect cars, fleeing the scene, very
valuable information and combining those Technologies to uh
to give the police department. An edge up capitalizing on
the technology available and could that work in conjunction
with
License plate readers as well. Yes sir. Okay, absolutely,
Thank you. And I understand that at least from my
understanding I believe this the contract between the city
and sound thinking expires septembar, 22nd correct.
Yes, sir. They have there been any talks about extending
the contract Beyond septembar, 22nd or, and if you could
disclose that, are there any conversations? No sir.
Okay, you can't disclose it or there are no, I'm sorry. No
conversations with with sound thinking formerly shot,
spotter regarding any extension, or continuation of that
current agreement. Well, I I I do want to say um many of my
residents and and I say this with the fleet honesty many of
my residents have um have called me and said and wanted to
to thank I didn't call you but they've asked me to thank
for um expanding into 1 of my bordering uh suburbs 1 of my
my bordering Villages. Uh because they feel protected now
that you know, Chicago may possibly remove shots spotter.
They feel protected that you are at least in 1 of our
bordering, um, suburbs. So thanks a lot for expanding over
there.
That's all to everyone. Thank you.
Um, chairman this is odm and more. I'm sorry to just butt
in. I was going to go last. I had my hand up for a long
time, but I was going to go last anyway, but I'm about to
board a flight. And if my colleagues don't mind, if I could
interject, uh, if you can call on me, I would greatly
appreciate it. Yeah, uh, Alderman Moore, go ahead and
proceed. I'm sorry. I didn't see your uh hand icon uh
following Alderman Moore. Then we'll go to Alderman,
Cardona Alderman, 4 is yours. Thank, thank you, um, so
much. Um, chairman first of all, I, I want to thank
everybody and especially you chairman for, um, bringing,
uh, this, you know, continue to bring this issue up and the
people that have gotten together, um, let me first start by
saying that, um, number 1. Um, there's an order out there
that was passed by the city council. Um, regardless of what
the administration has said. Um, there's an order out there
that says that, uh, before shock spotter is,
Um, removing funding that's taken away, that it needs to
come before the city council that order was passed and, um,
to validate any order would be, um, in my opinion, and I
believe, in legal opinion. Um, uh, illegal of the, um,
Administration to do so, but regardless of the legal, uh,
implications of it, um, at the end of the day,
Is an order, and that gives the residents a voice. Um,
that's all we're asking for. If, if, if the Administration
has this 26 votes, um, to not renew it then, fine. That's,
that's the representative of those constituents and we can
live with that. But number 1, a order should not be
validated. And then number 2, um, unilaterally, um, on a
critical issue like this should not be made unilaterally
and that the voices of the city council should, um, be
heard on it. That's number 1. And it has to be fully um,
taken in consideration. We are not here. Um, to we we ask
people to follow the law. So we asking this in
administration to follow a law that was passed. Um, based
on the order that was passed. Um, number 2, listen to the
residents, um, government is, um,
for the People by the people. It's for the People by the
people. And if the
Alderman who have spoken here. Represent those residents in
in favor or not in favor, has a right, has a right, um, to
chime in on behalf of that constituents and then listening
to their constituents, not uh, political political activist
groups, or anything like that, not campaign. Um, slogans
and promises but at the end of the day, the fact that
listening to the residents are critical. That's number 2.
So number 1,
Must follow the order to listen to these residents. Um,
3. Um,
I know what the technology which is has been stated.
Is 4 to save lives to detect to detect. Um, gunshots, but
although it wasn't designed to prevent crimes. Let me tell
you, it does everybody know that. But I don't want to get
so caught up into that. So people like, oh, it's not
designed to prevent crimes but it does when we have
situations, where there are shootings and police get, uh,
on the scene quickly, it stops retaliations, it gives
police the ability to know where problems are at that they
deploy officers there. When I know, um, people will come
back and continue um, crime elements. And so,
For that standpoint. Although it wasn't designed to do
that, it does. And so those are the things that cannot be
um calculated um in data
I want people to be clear on this and this is something
that, um, superintendent Eddie Johnson said, and we cannot
let me try to move to another area if we cannot
We cannot and I can't, I gotta repeat. We cannot ignore this
this fact. When we see homicides, go up, if this is removed
and shootings go down,
that's a problem and that's what's going to happen.
Unless unless we have something to replace it, we have why
get rid of something. And it's not so much that anybody who
supports this is married to uh, um, sound thinking or
anything like that.
Or this particular technology we're saying okay if you take
it away, what are you going to replace it with? I haven't
heard anybody say anything. I haven't heard this
Administration say what they're going to replace it with
and so we need to be clear, why just take something away?
And we don't even have something to say that we're going to
replace it with, to help with what, um, shot spotter has
been helping with, um, that was number 5, number 1, the
order got to, we got to follow the order, it's a law 2,
listen to the residents 3, it saves lives, and yes, it
prevent crimes.
Um, 4.
Where you can replace it with. Oh, now
Knowing that was superintendent. Eddie Johnson said um,
homicides will go up and you'll see shootings go down but
that'll be inaccurate in terms of the shootings going down.
And then um 5 what are we going to replace it with? Let me
get to. Um let me get to my 6 point.
and I think,
Chris Alderman, Chris Terrell touched on this.
And will park on the border.
Saying, hey, we're going to purchase technology because the
city is giving it up and it is, it has helped us in our
city.
If other municipalities are getting it and not giving up on
it, especially in our area, we should not be. Um, we should
not be giving up on them. Um, in terms of the Inspector
General who I highly respect who I highly, uh, is capable,
but at the end of the day, what she does and she does it so
well, the data that is given to her. She analyzed the data
that is given to her and make recommendations on that. We
all have agreed that the data has not been accurate.
Everyone has come to here to say, so you give the the you
give the Inspector General accurate data.
Then she can make accurate analysis to make good decisions
about what we should do. So let's give her accurate data
and and we're just starting just starting to get that.
Number.
9. I think I'm on to over policing.
That is a bunch of BS. What over polices is when, and this
is what I see. And I, and I've lived this, as a young black
man, they don't know what a gunshots come from. So
therefore, they, they get in the general area.
Somebody say see David Moore with a hoodie on all of a
sudden I get pulled over. Hey you know anything and next
thing I say what you pulling me over for that over polices
The Gunshot technology that we is having here prevents over
policing, it prevents it, because it gets it to where the
shot is at. Where the police do not have to go around the
neighborhood to determine. Hey, is that Joe Blow that
probably had a gun? Let's, let's check him and all of that,
that's the overall policing. And so let's get the
information right in terms of when we talk about, um, um,
the overall policing part and so
I appreciate all of my colleagues. I, I, I'm disturbed by
people who have done political trickery, to try to stop
this without doing their homework, um, and and, and did not
listen to their residents, that's a problem. And so at the
end of the day, this technology, we have to have, unless
have something you can say today that this is what we're
replacing it with. But more more importantly than anything,
there's an order out there that's this Administration has
to follow not Administration. That's going to stick his
chest out and say I have the right to do it. Oh I don't
it's not about you having the right to do it. It's about a
a ordinance was passed that puts in an order to come before
before the city council to make sure that the city council
vote on it before any funding is taken away from shot
spotter. I want to thank you. And I appreciate everyone,
um, on this and I look forward to uh, making sure that this
order.
Law at the law is followed. Thank you so much.
Yeah, Alderman Moore, thank you. And thank you for your
leadership as the lead sponsor of the ordinance. Uh, that
contained that order. Uh unfortunately, that is not before
us today. Uh, I wish it was because we could take
appropriate action. It's not. I want to remind the
committee that it's very specific resolution that gives us
the authority to have this discussion today, uh, resolution
R 2815, uh, which limits us to Simply discussing the
technology that data. Um, but how we're going to enforce
that order going forward? Uh, I think that is very much on
all of our minds and that is something that we as a
legislative body will be dealing with um, in the coming
days. So thank you Alderman, Moore for your leadership and
for for reminding, uh, reminding us of that pending order
Alderman. Uh, Cardona
Thank you, share.
Uh, first of all, I'm non-committee. So, thank you for
letting me speak. Um, the reason I'm speaking because I
have to speak for my residents, um, uh, before summer and
spring until the beginning of Summer. I had some, uh,
Community safety, um, meetings and the majority of my
residents were like shot spotter. We want shot Spotter and
I'm like, I heard you loud and clear when he came to the
vote, I supported it and continue to support it because
it's necessary for our for our communities. And I keep
saying that every Community is different and we have to and
the only ones that know about our communities are is us as
the elected officials because we represent that particular
Community, you know where
Your problems are, you know, where your good areas are at?
Um, I have a question for sound thinking real quick. Um, if
the city after the 22nd you said, um you would uh,
demobilize the sound system or the hotspot system. If the
city would come back and say, hey,
We want to we we want you guys back is what is there a cost
to that to read renewing and also putting the sound system
back up?
And do you know how much it will cost an estimate?
If there's no discontinuity of service, meaning we are able
to continue maintaining the sensor Network that's in place
today.
Then there would be no cost to re to continue the service
in terms of redeployment that type of thing.
If we have already begun the process of dismantling, the
sensor arrays and removing the sensors, then there would be
a cost associated with reinstallation.
Those locations.
Do you know how much would cost?
I I cannot say with any confidence at this point. Would,
you know, if you guys already started the process of taking
sensors down in the city, we have not no okay.
You know.
1 Thing.
The administration say that there's a replacement we're
still waiting to hear what the replacement would be. Um
because um like uh almond David Moore said, um, we haven't
haven't heard anything, we haven't heard a replacement. I
see after the 22nd, um, how things are especially in my
ward. I have a real hot area and just in May, um,
The, there's a gang issue and uh, they came by and they
shot up a building with 20 gun shells.
I looked I looked for a call for service, no call for
service. The only reason the police got there is because of
the shot spotter.
Especially when I have a 10 year old holding a gun and
start and and, you know, he's on YouTube, um, representing
the gang, he belongs to and, you know, saying, um, bad
remarks about police, and this is what we're looking at
these. These young kids, having possession of firearms, not
knowing the consequences of every life.
Is precious.
And I believe that shot spotter, protect lives.
So are we looking at a monetary substance? Are we looking
at saving lives and you think what's most important is
saving lives than a monetary substance here, but thank you,
chairman. I just wanted to uh, be on record. I support this
this and hopefully we could all come together and find a
happy medium and keep this going for our residents. Thank
you. Walter alderwoman Lee.
Thank you, chairman. And uh, I'll Echo the thanks for
having this hearing. Um, I'm not a member of the committee,
but I feel it's an important enough, uh, issue that I
needed to come, uh, and represent my ward 11th, ward in
this conversation, um, you know, and I apologize for being
in and out of the meeting today. Um, so if my questions
are, uh, redundant, I apologize. Have we talked at all
about
I know we talked about the end of the Contracting september
22nd. Is there a plan to transition out? Or is it just a
hard stop on the 22nd? The the alerts will cease to go out
to the police?
The current contract extension that we're working under.
includes a
Term U an extension term that expires on september 22nd.
There is also a 60-day wind down period.
Uh which has not really been defined. It's not really been
any conversations regarding what assistance, the city of
Chicago may need from sound thinking to support that that
wind down period and and have you inquired with either CPD
or the administration as to, or the legal department. I'm
assuming contributed to the extension here. Um, of what
that actually means, the 60-day wind down period.
We have not, we have notified the Chicago Police Department
that based upon the contract. It is our understanding. We
are determinate service at midnight on the 22nd but there's
been no further dialogue, other than that, notice.
um,
I know we don't have all the right people here chairman but
obviously this is there's a
there's even a chance for there to be, um,
The the 60-day wind down period. Sounds like a little bit
of a reprieve to have a little bit more discussion and
collect more information, um, in an attempt to and for the
record, I am in support of shot spotter, uh, to maintain
this technology and not take away, a really valuable tool
to police. Um, I, I can also share that, uh,
All 3 of The Last 3 command of the Ninth District support.
Um, having shot spotter as a tool, every police officer
that I talked to, uh,
Laments, the day that we are going to lose this. Um, when
they look when they respond to some, when they respond to a
call or something, the first thing that they're doing is
looking at where the shot spotter data came in because that
they know is where the more accurate information is coming
in. And, in fact, um, just on the border of the 15th and
11th word early, Sunday morning there is a shooting, um,
shot spotter alerted, the police and got them there. Uh,
and it was people firing at each other, their recovered
shell casings. And there was a a sign that someone was
injured, but there was nobody there.
2 hours later. Someone showed up to a hospital. But the
fact is
Calls for service aren't coming in every single time. A
gunshot is fired, and if it's in the middle of the night,
you have to be unless it wakes you up out of a dead sleep.
You're probably not going to even know that it happened.
Um, and I get the same phone calls as Alderman. Scott was
talking about where, you know, people will hear things
shots fired the night before and they'll call my office the
next day. And I'll say, did you call the police? Well, no,
we didn't do that. So we need and where we are like broken
records. We need the public because we need that data.
Because what that also does is it reinforces, um, and helps
to confirm where some of these shots are being, um, spotted
by shot spotter at the end of the day. So, um,
My other question and then I know, I'm, I'm the last 1 here.
Um, it's clear to me that we need much better data and this
data wasn't
wasn't really collected by CPD until and please clarify, if
I'm wrong about this until we ask for it. Starting January
first 2024. Is that correct?
There was a resolution that we all signed and part of that
was for collecting data. It is our understanding that this
is in response to the order that was passed on May 22nd,
specifying 7, different metrics that city council wanted to
start reviewing on a monthly basis?
Yeah, that
love to get back to how we can retroactively, look at
whatever data was collected um and we can identify where
those gaps are because you know I I definitely want to make
sure that we are um
That we are not just responding to people's emotions and
it's not just emotions that I heard gunshots out my window,
or I got a, I got a gunshot. Uh, I pulled a bullet out of
the wall of my, my son's bedroom window. Those are real
things that people are dealing with, uh, in in a lot of
these words where we have shot spotter technology. Uh, and
we need to be able to provide as many tools as possible.
So, um, we definitely want the data too to support that and
part of that data, we know has to be coming from, uh, our
constituents as well. So I think, you know, there's a big
group effort that needs to take place here. Um, but I would
hate to see this technology go away. Thank you very much.
Thank you, man. I appreciate your participation today.
Alderman, Talya, Ferro and Alderman. Beale, did you want,
yes, Alderman to Aero and then
Bill on a concluding. Thank you. I, I just have a brief
question based on my colleague, um, Alderman, bills,
comments earlier and I, I want to join him and, and
requesting, um, access to, um, having a an app that will
tell us what. Um,
What these alerts or what a police officer has. In fact,
what does a police officer get on his or her phone as a
result of a gun detection alert going off?
What information is provided through the ant?
We offer.
For all of our using agencies, unlimited access to a shot
spotter, application to be downloaded on, on their phone,
or on a laptop.
We use that application to notify alert officers to a
gunfire incident.
When we detect and send that alert out that officer will
receive a notice.
That notice will place a DOT on a map for the precise
location. The closest address
it'll include a recording of the number of the
gunshots that we detected.
uh,
number of gunfire, uh, whether it's a automatic weapon
semi-automatic weapon, some very basic forensics,
To give them as much information situational awareness as
we can before they arrived at the scene.
That.
Alert is going out to that officer's phone, uh on average a
year to date in Chicago. I think we've been alerting within
33 seconds of when we detect.
The actual gunshot.
Is. And there's an audio recording of it as well. Yes, sir.
Thank you this. I'd like to join you in that request
Alderman. Bill
Um, Mr. Jim just to um, give the ultimate a little more
clarification. I I wrote a letter to superintendent uh,
well over 6 months ago
Asking for every Alderman who had shot spotter in their
Ward. Ugh, to have access to the app. And um, so what I'll
do is I will resend that letter and add names or whoever
wants that name added to that and we will forward that on
to the soup as well because I just believe we need to have
access to it if it's in our Awards. Um and so that's um, I
do appreciate that. Uh, but I just have 1 last question and
we can wrap it up.
um,
Gary if, um, the city issued an RFP. Um, I know it'd be a
lot cheaper.
Um, because you all already have the network set up. So,
for RFP was issued, uh, would it be for the whole network
Or would it be similar to you all? Just renewing and to
continue on because I think it'll be cheaper just to
continue on versus um, an RP. And this is what it's going
to cost to roll out a whole new system.
Yes, sir. And we would welcome the opportunity to
participate in an RFP process. Allow the city to validate
that you. In fact have
The most effective technology available today. If we were
to respond to that RFP, um, at a time frame, when the
that is in place today was still deployed, then that would
be reflected in our pricing. That the infrastructure is
already in place. That would not be a charge to go back and
rebuild that infrastructure to the extent. We're able to
capitalize. What's what's there today?
Okay, and so a new contract, a new RFP for a new company.
That's doesn't exist today from what I understand, um, they
would have to roll out the whole new network and cost for
the hardware and everything else and that cost will be
built in to their response. Correct. Correct. Okay. Um,
No, I appreciate that. And um you know, again I just want to
thank you all for being here today, Mr. Chairman I really
thank you for having this informative. Um, you know,
subject matter hearing to let just let the people of the
city of Chicago know, um, that we're trying to save lives.
And we're trying to do what's right by the residents of of
our Awards and that getting rid of this technology will be
a huge, huge disservice to every resident of the city of
Chicago who want to continue to live work and play in this
city. And so, uh, I just want to say that for the record
again. I want to thank you so much for having this hearing.
Thank you Alderman. Appreciate it. Uh, with no further
business to come before the committee. Elder woman may not
happen worth moves. Adjournment. Hearing no objection. So
order the meeting is adjourned. Thank you, everyone for
your participation.